Atheist Debates - Mental Illness disproves God?

[@alph1057]

I'll just mention my story: I had become a born-again Christian in 1985 when I was 23. Since 1994, I have been suffering from soul-crushing depression, and before watching TAE vids and Hitchens five yrs ago, and been literally PLEADING with this diety on my knees when I could get out of bed to remove this. I had been active in the church for all that time, on the music team, having others pray for and 'lay hands on me, ' to no avail. I have had ECT, endless decades of antidepressants and therapy, and still suffer most of the time. God DID NOT answer my prayers, and it wasn't because I had some 'sin' in my life or 'didn't have enough faith or pray enough. '

[@frozentspark2105]

I did something similar, I suffer from bi polar and manic depressive. It's destroyed my life, even meds have a small effect. I went out into the middle of a field in the middle of the night and cried, begged for a cure or death. I studied, went to every church offered service. I can honestly say I gave it 100% for 4 years. Nothing, not one single ounce of answers or help. I hope you and I and others can find peace in life. All the best to you. Thanks for sharing

[@alph1057]

@@frozentspark2105 thank you, as well.I also wish you the best

[@thedragonofechigo7878]

See, stories like yours are more common than people think because when you were in your greatest time of need for God to heal you from depression, nothing happened even if you were in church and served in church as well. Yet God didn't answer your prayer because surely a deity you cry out to with all your heart would have no reason to not help you at that point but I'm sure some Christians will say, without hesitation, that you didn't have enough faith for God to heal you but I call that absolute nonsense because of how many people have cried out to God in prayer, earnestly seeking him out yet nothing happened. That, amongst other things, was one of the reasons i walked out on faith. Christians love to talk about how God is good and capable of performing miracles but what you went through says a lot to the contrary of those claims. I'm so glad you found your way out though, what a journey you were on.

[@alph1057]

@@thedragonofechigo7878 thanks. It actually did make me stronger to look to myself for self-love and acceptance

[@thedragonofechigo7878]

@@alph1057 yeap, that's so awesome that you realized that by yourself. More life to you

[@jasonbanks68]

It was kind of a gut punch yesterday when you announced that it was the last AXP show you were going to do. You are a voice of reason and logic in this world and I wish you luck in whatever you decide to do next. And I will of course continue to watch this channel. Keep up the great work.

[@realitycheck966]

Dillahunty lies incessantly. Reason and logic my butt.

[@realitycheck966]

@B You mad boy? You'll get over it. You can always scream at the sky if that atheist butt-hurt is too much.

[@exceptionallyaverage3075]

@@realitycheck966 You ever call in when he was hosting a show?

[@josephpostma1787]

@B Why cry?

[@josephpostma1787]

@@realitycheck966 I can't relate to Dillahunty lying.

[@tombudd1281]

I've always found it odd that some will say the soul is in charge of everything but somehow brain damage can affect the soul. Either it's physical or not folks, you can't have it both ways.

[@realitycheck966]

That's obviously false. You may as well claim composing music or writing a term paper is either physical or not. The physical provides the conduit, but is not sufficient to create the effect. A broken physical computer or instrument will have great effect on the outcomes, but a perfect computer or instrument is not sufficient to write the term paper of compose music.

[@tombudd1281]

@@realitycheck966 So if I'm understanding your analogy, a defective brain has an effect on our actions while the soul remains unaffected. If this is the case, are we judged by our worldly actions which could be corrupted by a malfunctioning interface between the soul and the body? If so, then why? If not, then why are we held accountable in the mortal world if it's just our brain malfunctioning and causing us to do immoral and potentially illegal acts? Also... Show me any evidence that a brain needs something outside of itself to function properly. If it's not required then the soul is kind of useless. If it is required, does everything that has a brain have a soul? Is there a heaven for bugs, insect, and other creepy crawly things? How are they judged bye the creator? Is a predator animal judged harshly for killing other creatures even though it may be incapable of surviving on a vegetarian diet? By what metrics are parasites that can only reproduce by killing their host organism judged on? So many questions.

[@pansepot1490]

@@realitycheck966 you don’t seem to know how the neurological system works.

[@realitycheck966]

@@pansepot1490 Except you are lying because you have no answer. Typical atheist. BTW, do your chemicals cause knowledge of things?

[@drewharrison6433]

@@realitycheck966 I'll go one step further. You don't seem to understand how reality works. Writing a term paper is a physical process. Doing it just in your mind is just musing. Writing a song is equally a physical process. You can hear a melody in your head but until you play it or write it down, you have only mused. Worse than that, a thought is still a physical process. We can see with fMRI (functional magnetic resonance imaging) exactly where in the brain a thought takes place.

[@stansolo4138]

A child will claim to have an imaginary friend and adults may view that as a coping mechanism for a developing mind . Yet when adults claim their imaginary friend is real, I being an adult may view that as disturbing .

[@paganbeef734]

* stolen

[@alph1057]

Thank you, Matt, because most Christians have no compassion who have not experienced this, especially those like myself who have been suicidal and have had suicides in my family. Some of them believe that my family members and people like Robin Williams are now in 'hell'.

[@littlebitofhope1489]

@光 Robin Williams had Lewy Body Dementia. If anyone expects someone with a damaged brain to make good decisions, it says more about that person than Williams. But according to Christians, yes, he would be in hell. That says more about them than anything else.

[@Chamelionroses]

True many theists of all sorts of religions push that mental illness doesn't exist for a true theist. Hindus to Abrahamic...and others say it is demons. Denialism and cure all con artists ...pain below the neck. With family and friends like that who needs them. Mental health like and health can be a struggle.

[@OmniphonProductions]

@光 Does _your_ mulitverse concept _also_ include universes in which Robin Williams is still alive, in which Robin Williams is simply dead (because in _that_ universe there _is_ no heaven or hell), and in which Robin Williams never existed in the first place? I'm assuming your answer to all of these is, "Yes." I just love contemplating such concepts because the permutations are literally infinite...and growing every second. Having said all of that, we can currently only access the _one_ universe in which _this_ version of ourselves exists, so conjecture about any _others_ is intellectually stimulating but of little functional value...that is unless it keeps _this_ you from killing yourself.

[@littlebitofhope1489]

@@OmniphonProductions Assuming you are ABLE to contemplate them. It's kind of the point that not everyone is.

[@tannerjack9520]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/rGSZkKlqndh1Y7s

[@grantcavazos]

I regret not having called the AXP while you were still on the show to ask you some of my questions and for me to thank you for influencing so much structure in my life. Thanks Matt!

[@shecklesmack9563]

Did he leave? He was just on Sunday

[@grantcavazos]

@@shecklesmack9563 he said that was his last show on the AXP

[@dj_tika]

@@grantcavazos You could still call into him on The Hangup

[@shecklesmack9563]

@@grantcavazos :(

[@MadtownAtheist]

@@n0etic_f0x I believe he said he wouldn’t be affiliated with the ACA anymore… I wouldn’t mind being wrong about this.

[@brandish_0003]

Matt, As an exJW with an autistic brother I found myself reasoning along these lines not just with my brother and others like him but also extended the argument for people who are in the lgbtqia+ community because I knew at the time (when I was doubting) that your sexual orientation wasn’t a choice. After I learnt about evolution I completely forgot my train of thought as to how the whole justice argument doesn’t make sense for people who suffer from mental illness, express any form of nuerodivergency or belong to the Queer community. Thank you so much for reminding me of this argument and bringing up aspects I never thought of. This will forever be my favourite video of yours. (For the record I’m not equating the catagories of queer and mentally ill, im remembering how i was thinking about it as a JW and from the ignorant perspective of cis/hetero normativity )

[@Nick-yn1sc]

This was a wonderful take, Matt. Have a great day and thank you for the amazing content!

[@Angelmou]

I've read a medical case collection of Alzheimer patients in the netherlands, 2 were converted as older people to Jehovah's witness and another denomination (where it was forbidden to eat pork). The alzheimer patients forgot they even converted and just talked about their youth partially (even when they were asked if they converted they just said: They never were really religious in their lives) and at some point 1 patient was annoyed about that they did not get the tasty porksausage on the table (as in their youth) and felt treated unfairly. The doctor commented somewhere "God left the building long ago" as private comment. A very good book is also "The 3 christs of ypsilanti" it was a psychiatry experiment to get 3 patients together. They all were convinced to be the reborn Jesus. And they argued with eachother why the other ones must be fake, like that they are robots and so on.

[@douglasrasmussen480]

A couple years ago a very prominent retired doctor who had worked for a Catholic hospital system was stabbed to death. Speculation in the community was that someone invaded his home and stabbed him in a botched robbery. It turned out that his wife stabbed him to death. After over 50 years of marriage, she had developed severe dementia and was convinced her husband was a stranger there to attack her and she acted according to her delusion. I, like Matt, do not believe in a supernatural omnipotent omniscient being, but the questions remain: How would anyone, god or not judge this woman's "mind"; and by extension any god who allowed the progression of dementia to reach that point - how are they not directly responsible for the death of that husband?

[@Daudelus1]

For 13 years my mother-in-law suffered from lewy body dementia, at the end she wasn't any more than a husk,not even aware of anything that went on around her. I believe that the person she was, her memories, her sense of self where destroyed because of her illness. I cannot believe, after she exhaled her last breath. And went on to Heaven with her ID restored. I find this exceptionally cruel. This is one of my personal experiences that make me not believe in God.

[@whyspoppabear]

Until both a soul & an afterlife are proven, I have no use for anyone's gods.

[@VaughanMcCue]

A few a souls present futile detractions of the divine work of Saint Matt Dillahunty on this channel, so we have resolved that challenge in the affirmative; a souls exist. I suppose the next step after canonising St Matt is to deify him. So many apologists often use his sacred name; I am sure it is a sign that god status is imminent.

[@odini6235]

mental illness hasn't been proven yet you belive in it.

[@jonkerjk]

I've watched lots of your Debates and videos over a 7 year Period And I'm always fascinated by how similar Your beliefs are with mine I watched your video yesterday and I'm sad to see you leave the atheist experience show I've been an atheist a long time but my wife became an atheist after watching lots of your debates And other research thank you Matt

[@marksutherin1987]

Which video did he explain his departure from the show? Thank you.

[@andrewhampson5162]

I came across him about the same time. Feel indebted to this cat for helping me learn to think skeptically and in my opinion, better.

[@andrewhampson5162]

@@marksutherin1987 Just yesterday he announced he's leaving the ACA after 17 years. .an, I'm gonna miss atheist experience with him.

[@marksutherin1987]

@@andrewhampson5162 Oh he announced it on the show, not this channel? Cause I watched his last video about god being pretend and I don't recall that announcement.

[@andrewhampson5162]

@@marksutherin1987 Yea on Atheist Experience yesterday. Sounds like he's leaving the ACA but will remain active with his work. Thank God. Lol

[@davidrichardbartlett_reeve9760]

Thank you for bringing up this subject, so often I hear about LBGT rights and slavery, important ideals to be sure, but very little is said about those of us born with mental illness. It's frustrating to be told that "God is testing you to prove your love of him, despite what he does to you, you should feel honored he noticed you". This makes believers feel better about their beliefs not us, I feel that it makes my existence meaningless, I'm just here for your gods amusement. Thanks again Matt, for taking the time to bring this to wider attention.

[@Andrea.1tree]

Please don’t base your existence on the beliefs of others. You are valid, and have every right to be a part of society as them. I think that one struggle, those of us who come from a more extreme religious background has, is being able to find a belief system to replace religion. It’s really a battle to overcome brain washing. Indoctrinated at a young age to believe that we need a mental crutch (religion), to survive is child abuse. Imo of course. I see it more like, we feel crazy because we have a brain, and can see that their gaslighting doesn’t change the facts. If there was a god, it would not require you to prove your love to anyone else but itself. That idea (god testing you), is the arrogance of those who want to control you, and nothing else. Best wishes. 🤗

[@Bob-of-Zoid]

Keep in mind how many christians put being LGBTQ in the category of mental illness, and yet still treat it as not something that can be treated or even cured (Of course there are incurable conditions), but something worthy of punishment. The ones who do understand that mental illness can be treated and try to do so, do not use the science of medical and psychology professionals, but rather absurd bullshit like "Conversion therapy" and even exorcisms as "Treatment" instead, which have been shown by science to make shit a whole lot worse for the most part. In short, they deny science to begin with, and then use "christian science" as a replacement, all along ignoring all of the pillars of science, one being investigating and considering the results and making changes accordingly. It's why I am not at all keen on the notion that "There are good scientists who are still christians, but put their christianity aside when doing science", as if that is even entirely possible, and their accepting unsubstantiated absurdity in the first place in any instance doesn't effect the whole of their thinking and therefore their actions in everything they do.

[@XDRONIN]

Excellent work. That was the problem of Consciousness, Free Will, and Evil, all wrap-up into one.

[@uncleanunicorn4571]

In the ancient world, this would have been explained with some sort of demon, God could just take the demon away, and judge the real you. But now we know the real you can be affected by mental illness which is subject to drugs. How can that person possibly be judged the same as the neurotypical?

[@greenjelly01]

The hardest things to disprove are the things that are completely made up. You just make it up as you go along, keeping the characteristics that appear to make sense, and discard anything that doesn't.

[@arthurhamlin9998]

Great content Matt. Agree 100%. Best wishes ✌

[@dangutwein]

Over 50 years ago, In my early 20s, I was a Christian fundamentalist and had a friend who sincerely wanted to conform his thinking to Christian ideals. I didn’t know it at the time, but the person had various physical and mental handicaps, learning difficulties that made it difficult for him to think metaphorically. He was tormented when trying to grasp the basic tenets of Christian theology. He felt guilty all the time and felt like he would be judged for it. This was heartbreaking for me to watch, he would call me all the time to try to get straightened out, and this eventually led me to question the basic notion that people should be expected to conform their thinking to some set of ideals for fear of being judged by an all powerful God. This is probably the main event in my life that convinced me that religion was harmful.

[@Mezza_Luca]

@@Sportsis4losers Human survival, yes. Human knowledge, very no. Fear is over demonized in fiction, but hardly a thing worth praising with any regularity. Also your two 'backup' claims to your quote are incredibly laughable.

[@Mezza_Luca]

@@Sportsis4losers Your first scenario is popularity and adrenaline chasing, fear explicitly stops action unless it reaches an overwhelming threshold and activates a 'fight' response. The second one is clearly someone who wasn't exhibiting a fear response. From the account of James Dean's life/death he liked motorsports and that lead him to buying a top of the line Porche and driving around like a madman. This is most likely an adrenaline chasing behavior and something that naturally interested him. Nowhere did it say 'He was incredibly scared to get behind the wheel of the porshe, but he endured to do something horribly stupid anyway'. He was an enthusiast. Normal mild fear has a dampening effect on human behavior. Social phobias; Shy personality. Fear of dogs; stay away from dogs. These things often STOP our ability to learn and can create long term ignorance and hatred. Unless you can site a source that says otherwise, you can just stop defending that stupid quote. Because much like the rest of the Bible, it's real ignorant.

[@Mezza_Luca]

@@Sportsis4losers That wasn't your stated position at the start of this. So you are either moving the goal posts or stating complex things in an overly simplified way, I'm leaning toward the former. Either way, not a good look. Social phobias aren't introversion, so that's just straight conflation. I don't care about quotes of some inventor. They don't prove reality, they confirm biases. If you want to talk about fear an rule out phobias, you are cherry picking. Phobias are by definition a strong case of fear. If your original assertion would hold, these people would be gaining the most knowledge, and that's not consistent with reality. Fear is unhealthy when it leads to ignorance, and becomes even more dangerous when it leads to hatred. Because that is a very natural pathway. Your arguments are riddled with fallacies quite boring.

[@Mezza_Luca]

Fear can have value, and is normally unreasonable demonized, but that's not the point. The point is real fear, doesn't cause knowledge or understanding, it causes avoidance, pretty much unanimously. 'Fear giving clarity on what's important' but the fear isn't the driving factor, it's a remembrance tool, subtle yet important distinction, the event that cause the fear, the thing that will be avoided (or at least attempting to avoid), is still going to be avoided. In a shock those brain chemicals can lead to temporary clarity but definitely not higher thinking. High enough values you get the most primitive reactions; fight, flight, or freeze. Not a doctorate in the subject matter that just gave you a scare. So you can stop conflating any day now.

[@shriggs55]

This is probably the most concise and well thought out assessment of this subject I've ever heard.Not only did you express some thoughts I've been pondering for a long time about this subject,but you've engendered some things I can say to evangelicals on the subject.Thanks again,Matt.

[@VaughanMcCue]

Good choice of words for your response. I felt the same way. I ran the video a second time and will do so again. Thanks for your interest and contribution.

[@hazmatt4637]

Thanks Matt. Just thank you. And please, keep this up. It's needed. That is all.

[@JohnSmith-vm8rx]

Excellent segment topic!

[@perttisuorsa4678]

I love to listen to you Matt because it is easy to understand what you say and everything you say is logical. There is a huge difference between you and Jordan Peterson.

[@pansepot1490]

So true. He’s a better philosopher than many who call themselves philosophers.

[@superfly2449]

Amen to that! Pardon the expression.

[@vic.smittie.5668]

Peterson is a poephol!

[@michman2]

I'm going to miss you on AXP. Thank you.

[@hannah3146]

Have people call in on this show Matt! We love you and you made that show alot better. You probably won't read this but I really admire you 💜

[@bananaslug.1951]

I went to a church where the Minister said there were no mental illnesses. There, problem fixed. That helped me become an atheist.

[@odini6235]

Do you have proof for any form of mental illness?

[@bananaslug.1951]

@@odini6235demons that what they believe causes mental illness. If you agree just simply make up your own reply because KZbin would take mine off.

[@bananaslug.1951]

@@odini6235demons are the cause of mental illness, that is what my minister said. If you agree with this please write your own KZbin rely because they would only remove my reply.

[@Carl_Frank]

You final points are what really does it for me. Even disregarding mental illness, I have always (well, since my deconversion, decades ago) thought: you could say I'm not smart enough, or not "spiritual" enough, or not intuitive enough, or not open-minded enough, or not... *something* enough to "get it", and see the reality of this god. OK, well, I am only doing my best with what I have. I tried. I really really did, and I simply don't find it believable. If a god was going to judge me on that, well... there's nothing I can do about it. I can't decide to believe something I find unbelievable. (What a weird criteria for getting your ticket punched, anyway. Belief? That's what determines whether you get the reward or the punishment? Not a choice, but a belief?)

[@davidwinter3495]

Matt you rock. It's scary how people can believe in something and are willing to ignore the facts before them. It's more than just religion. Keep up the good work. Thank you

[@frozentspark2105]

I saw a quote once that the only battle we can can win as people is to survive

[@dalerohling5989]

Yes, whatever survives and reproduces is just, everything else is unjust.

[@Mike.Muc.3.1415]

Thank you for another interesting episode. You are probably unaware of it, but there are a lot of shell-shocked fans out here waiting your promised statement. The ACA's communications strategy when some of their most beloved hosts quit was always rather limited in the past, one might call it unprofessional and non-transparent. It would be great if you would provide us with some basic information. That is probably not asked too much after following you for more than 16 years.

[@QQuandary]

Because I have Asperger's and ADHD, I think differently than the average person. I have noticed that people get afraid of me due to my different way of thinking. And, people especially Christians says it's my fault for behaving different. Even though, the behavior comes from my way of thinking. For example: I'm curious about everything. It seems Christians don't like curiosity.

[@davidrichardbartlett_reeve9760]

I was diagnosed with NVLD similar to Asperger's but slightly different, I too face these same attitudes from believers of many faiths.

[@littlebitofhope1489]

I have a tremor in my neck. People get afraid of me too. People are really stupid.

[@htpkey]

Thank you Matt for this video! This exact point has crossed my mind multiple times: "How would god judge someone who is neurodivergent? Is it reasonable for a deity to judge all people by the same rules even though some of us are facing major disadvantages in life? Why are some of us born with major disadvantages and expected to be judged by the same universal standard?". I have heard the cop-out answer "he will judge you based on your intentions" many times. This doesn't answer my question and I feel that this was usually said to shut me up instead of engaging with the things I asked.

[@jestermoon]

Take A Moment Thank you Matt. Great content as ever. Revolution is in the air across the globe. PTSD is a pandemic. I was one of many serving atheists in foxholes. We don't need gods to hate anyone. it's what we do best. I am an RAF veteran of 28yrs livingwithPTSD24hrsa day. I live in a care home in Calgary Alberta Untruedaux Land. I will continue to make the world a better place until I'm dead. We all die. Don't want to upset anyone, it's true. Stay together. It's all we have Stay Safe Stay Free 🌐

[@stevenbyers8747]

Matt, the "problem" with your video is that it comes from a place of compassion for people suffering from mental illness. I would bet that the christian apologist is going to find some way to blame the person suffering from mental illness for their suffering and illness and then they will smuggly declare victory and move on as fast as possible.

[@davidrichardbartlett_reeve9760]

They, the apologists, have to blame the individual despite reasons. If they didn't they would have to judge their beliefs and their God. But you can't because God is perfect lol.

[@VaughanMcCue]

There is nothing more despicable than Christian love.

[@aaronstypes4083]

Most Christian apologists would not blame the person for their mental illness. You are unjustly projecting. Martin Luther, judged by modern standards, would be deemed to have a mental illness. But he still did some amazing things for God's glory.

[@photobobo]

God does exactly what his creators want him to do.

[@questioneveryclaim1159]

Neuroscience and evolution are all be solid defeaters for most theistic worldviews, but you got to give the apologist credit they've done an incredible job providing good enough answers to appeal to casual skeptics. The great defeater for Abrahamic religions is one can come to an honest conclusion though scriptural evidence that the evidence is insufficient to warrant the belief which has no bearing on good works or grace.

[@mobilegamersunite]

Maybe casual skeptics....but not skeptics actually working in the medical field with some of these people. That I can promise you 😌

[@Bradley_UA]

You might want to re-write your comment

[@jlankford]

I was taught that each person is judgment based on their capacity to believe and practice Christianity. There is a lot of problems with this. What if I was a believer who developed dementia and the dementia caused me to stop practicing Christianity? Which version of myself will be judged: my younger faithful version or my older unfaithful version...specifically, at which age; which period of my life; at what moment can I ever say "This is who I am - judge me at this point." My desires, hopes, likes, opinions and attitudes have changed throughout my life.

[@the-trustees]

They "reconcile" it by NEVER dealing with it. How hard is that to get. Their BIGGEST fear is being convinced they are wrong and that is why they'll resist it by whatever means available.

[@jeroldpaquette9068]

I have been following you for years; your present abilities have VERY MUCH improved. I should say something more accurate however I lack that ability!

[@cartesiancircle]

if the poor people here and elsewhere who have suffered severe anxiety problems and the existential blight of severe/major/clinical depression anything like I have for decades then I just want to put my arms around you all. It's nothing less than torture . Whether you're fundamentalist religious, athiest or whatever, it emphasized to me what I already sensed that we're all human and no-one deserves it. I always was an empathetic non-believer but that even deepened my athiesm/naturalism. ♥️

[@__-tz6xx]

14:11 In general, the Mormon church calls people who seem to not understand the dogma as "lazy learners"

[@pomannishboy6676]

This is Jeremy the guy who called in yesterday and wanted to bring up synchronicity (This is a copy and paste of the original comment I left in the comment section of that show. I have been engaging in discussion with skeptics in that thread). You're right I was unprepared as I just heard it was your last show on this and I had just found out about you days ago. I have to thank you Matt because it is a great help having people like you in the face of having siblings trying to proselytize me. I'm not a fan of Christianity. I understand it was your last show and I failed to be succinct in my thoughts but I had to travel due to a surgery in the family and pulled over just to try and talk with you, and was just flustered and unprepared and I apologize. I was more than willing to discuss any of my synchronicities. I am thoroughly convinced if I could take off my consciousness like a hat and put it on you to experience, just for a couple minutes, you would understand and I wish it was that simple. I was ready to explain what I believe trickster energy to be, But I felt it necessary to preface what I was saying by referencing the One culture that encapsulates what I'm referring to and hoping you have some understanding of that system (IFA) before I went further. But as for my story (which I didn't even want to really get into and really just wanted to ask you guys about what level of synchronicity Y'all would have to experience to thwart y'all's opinion, which was the question I never really got an answer to). As I sit in a disgusting Walmart parking lot off of an exit in Quincy Florida taking a break from my trip and hoping my dogs are comfortable and my cat will SHUT THE HELL UP, I thought I could further detail you in on the synchronicities you asked about. It's a very loaded thing to try and explain. And even if y'all did let me try I'm sure it would have just been a means to dismantle My reality (in 5 years of dealing with this, I have not come across anything that has and I am very logical and well researched in my attempts to understand what I've experienced). That being said... MY synchronicities... I didn't believe in anything, spiritually speaking, until I had a dream that a deity announced me as "the jester" and upon waking up from that dream things between my consciousness and materiality lined up and ways that were like out of a fairy tale. I hate going into details on this because it's just a string of wild occurrences pointing to this spirit on me that can each individually be picked apart by skeptics, yet as a whole, All of the experiences I've had in combination are far more telling than cherry-picked examples I can give. For instance I was repeatedly and strangely thrown Michael Jackson synchronicities to an extent where I was just confused as to why. It started with peeling beets onto butcher paper and after dumping them off seeing an image of Michael Jackson on a cross on the butcher paper. Never was a fan or gave a shit about Michael Jackson, It's just what I saw without overthinking but understood the image was very powerful on the butcher paper and it meant something. After work I went and watch the movie that just came out at the time "uncut gems". One of the first scenes is Adam Sandler showing off a piece of jewelry that is Michael Jackson on the cross. I just took note as I always do with these things when they happen. Around that time I was asking and reaching out to anyone that has experience with spiritual phenomenon. I had went to get a tarot reading something I had never done before. The only guy that was doing readings the night I went was a man named Michael in Jackson square (New Orleans, where I live). I took note of that. Around that time I met a man who is now my drum instructor for Voodoo ceremonies that I play and have been playing for 4 years now. I was explaining to him some of the things I was experiencing (I didn't mention the Michael Jackson stuff). He said it sounds like a trickster and went and got a book out of his library. A big $300 book called "Eshu".. The book is filled with pictures of altar pieces mainly wooden carvings. There's no mention or pictures of any recognizable celebrity or anything like that aside from one page where there is a painting of Michael Jackson (by the way this book wasn't my first run-in with the name Eshu. I've been pointed towards that name in strange ways). To top off the weird Michael Jackson synchronicities, My girlfriend, at the time, scores a major gig painting the front and back album of a singer's debut. The singer: Paris Jackson (Michael Jackson's daughter). I've tried to get rid of this thing on me. The two times I have, I was almost robbed on both of those different days. I've lived in New Orleans for 15 years and have never come close to getting robbed aside from those two days. Both of those days I swore off this entity. Both times I was almost robbed and saved last minute as I asked for forgiveness. Both times After being saved in the nick of time, I found a book immediately after. Both books are black anonymous authored books. After the first time the book I found Is titled "heaven knows what”... After the second time the book I found: "24 hours a day" (a book about abstaining from drinking and I was a couple days away from my year mark of not drinking on that night). I could go on and on for hours. I'm a po' boy entrepreneur in New Orleans. Food is my language. I would be more than happy to take a trip to where you are and enjoy a meal with you and speak further. I believe you as a communicator should at least look into Eshu. He is the dialectician of a Nigerian spiritual system. Without him there is no communication to and from This reality and The metaphysical one. He is honored in the beginning and end of every ceremony. One of his most infamous stories/lessons/pataki is about two farmers that are friends. Eshu decides to play a joke. He paints half of himself red and half of himself black (his colors). He walks down the road separating the two farmers whistling to get their attention. After he had passed, The Farmers spoke about him to each other: "did you see that man! He was such a brilliant red color!"... "No he wasn't! He was a dark black color!"... They argued and argued and eventually started fighting over it (Eshu's tricks usually cause chaos). As they are fighting, Eshu walks back down the road towards them. They both stop fighting and look up to see that they both were right and they both were wrong. That is a major role of Eshu the trickster/jester/Divine messenger at the crossroads... Perception. Thank you again for taking the time even though I wasn't prepared to talk with you quite yet.

[@lenglonr6198]

You explained that your reasoning is based on a series of coincidences that individually are not compelling but you believe form a pattern that is as a whole. You probably have already had people talk to you about Confirmation Bias, and I do think that really does heavily apply here, but I'm going to assume that such a conversation wouldn't be productive for anyone since it would boil down to "you're probably biased. No I'm not. Yes you are. No I'm not." which wouldn't get anybody anywhere. So since that goes nowhere, lets instead see if we can figure out a way to test the theory. Do you know a way some unbiased person who knows nothing about the topic could reliably have experiences similar to the ones you have? Or is there some kind of study we could do similar to the studies on intercessory prayer to see if people who have nothing to do with what you're talking about have statistically different outcomes from people who agree with you? Or any other way you can think of to build evidence to prove that you're right?

[@pomannishboy6676]

And I'm not reaching out to you as a means to try and disprove your very sound logic. If anything I'm trying to rip apart my own perception based on interactions I've had and experiences I can't deny. Most of the people that are heavy into beliefs that coincide with the type of stuff I've dealt with, immediately want to move to proselytizing and promoting initiation into a tradition where I'd become financially in debt for regular divinations and offerings. I also don't agree with ritual animal sacrifice. It's a conflict I have that is met with hard criticism from traditionalists in African based spiritual practice. My response is I've never heard of a jester that used murder to communicate or entertain a royal court. Although to the defense of ritual sacrifice, most of the ones I have investigated involve bloodletting on altars and the animal is then processed to be made into food to eat. People that have a problem with that, that eat meat, should reassess the process in which they end up with that food on their table, before judging a way of processing meat that is more respectful to the animal than what goes on in meat processing factories. When I seldomly do petition, I petition what's on me through means of jest. I've made fun house mirrors. In lieu of sacrificing a chicken at a crossroads, I instead have dressed like a chicken to make tobacco or rum offerings. The times I have experimented with propitiating this deity with jest have brought about actual results.

[@pomannishboy6676]

@@lenglonr6198 I responded to skeptics on the original comment I posted in the comment section of Matt's last appearance on the atheist experience yesterday. I have done a lot of testing with this and thrown All sorts of curve balls, and I'm willing to go there again. If you can find that comment, I've gone into a lot more detail there.

[@pomannishboy6676]

@@lenglonr6198 as for the confirmation bias... I really didn't enjoy what was going on when all this first started to hit and didn't like it. I wasn't reaching for things and trying to connect dots. I just took note of my experiences and the dots connected in front of me with very little to no mental gymnastics involved. If you've ever had those moments where you thought of someone and they came into the room, or you had a thought that was finished by a conversation across the street...etc. that gives you an idea of the type synchronicities that would happen. And it would clown on me. One day I got in my car frustrated by it yelling "What the hell is going on?!" I turn on my car. On the radio: "what's going on what's going on🎶".

[@lenglonr6198]

@@pomannishboy6676 Regarding confirmation bias, there's a few problems with your examples. first is that all the times that stuff *didn't* happen, it wasn't memorable. You think of someone, and they *don't* come into the room. Is that really noteworthy? Of course not. So you don't bother remembering it. You turn on the radio and it *doesn't* answer your question. It's not noteworthy, so you forget about it. It's only noteworthy when it *does* happen, and not when it *doesn't*. This means your mental data-set is only going to contain the times you *did* get the noteworthy results. Because when you *don't* it's not worth remembering. next problem is that when you are looking for an answer in coincidences around you, you're going to tend to find them even if they aren't actually there. Similar to looking for shapes in clouds. For example, lets say that you are worried about a relationship, and turn on the radio, hoping for a sign. If you turn it on and it's a love song, you'll take it as a sign because love songs are related to relationship trouble, even though love songs are SUPER common to have played on the radio. Well what if it's a soap commerical? That's also a sign, because clearly it's telling you to clean yourself up to be more presentable. Well what if it's world news? well since some conflict or disaster or whatever happened somewhere and they're reporting on it, obviously it's a relationship trouble prophecy. Fine then lets try a pizza commerical. So next time you meet you should bring pizza. You see what's happening here? *no matter what the result is, your brain will twist that result to make it seem tangentially related to the thing you were thinking about*. It's not actually that the world is focused on you, it's that you are expecting to see stuff about you in the world, and your brain is twisting things to make it seem to be focused on you. Or to put it differently, you're using the world as a mirror, and marveling at how this person in the window is mimicking you, when in reality it's just your own reflection.

[@danielsnyder2288]

I've heard so many Christians say that there relatives only came to God after dementia amd how dementia was such a blessing

[@bellezavudd]

Im hoping even though Matt has stopped doing AXP that we will still get to hear his thoughts here. I'm praying ... 😁

[@benopie7772]

you answer your question at 9:20 . The same way that human beings consider mitigating circumstances here on earth in every day, life, and in legal proceedings I don’t see why God couldn’t do the same thing on judgment in the afterlife.

[@Bluebloods7]

8:00 - interesting thought you gave at this point made me consider this scenario: Imagine a soul, good in its works and character, reflecting upon a human that has by all standards Christian or otherwise, led a good life worthy of admittance to heaven upon death. Now, imagine this soul being influenced, affected, damaged, dirtied, sullied and broken beyond repair by the evils that are allowed to persist/exist because of the idea of God allowing us "free will." This soul then goes on to commit an "unforgivable act," that would then "revoke" their get into heaven card, and ultimately doom them to an eternity of fire and brimstone instead. Is this still an infallible God, a fair God, a God worthy of praise? Certainly not.

[@Dadas0560]

As far as I'm aware, according to the Catholics, one has no sin when one isn't aware of sin, so the cases you describe, the mentall illness, go under that.

[@dalerohling5989]

Good thoughts on “salvation” and points out a worse problem for certain beliefs regarding such, “eternity”. Eternity had no beginning nor has an ending, so we are either eternal beings (soul) having a temporal existence for reasons beyond our capacity to understand or we had a beginning but no ending. The former suggests we are eternal gods in flesh suits, the latter suggests we are fooling ourselves.

[@KevinBReynolds]

I love it when mortals tell me they know anything at all about any supposed immortals. It makes it real easy to pick out the truly self-deceived.

[@courierdude]

Brilliant as always bro. 😊🇨🇦☮️💟

[@officialjocelyn9108]

As a sister to a brother with learning disabilities, I have always wondered how he would be expected to comprehend the tenets of faith to salvation. With what he does understand (he's been indoctrinated since birth) he's all in on the Jesus train. I don't have the heart to deconstruct his faith, but I use him as an example when I talk to others and they use the "god knows his heart" excuse....just grasping at straws.

[@carth85]

Damn I just realized I haven't been subscribed all this time. This is a great point I've thought about and asked my Christian friends about without ever getting a good or consistent answer. How does their God judge those who don't have the capacity to understand or are affected by severe mental illness? I don't think you're going to find a good answer but its something Christians should think about and may perhaps get them to begin to evaluate their other beliefs.

[@uncleanunicorn4571]

In the ancient world, mental illness would have been explained with some sort of demon, God could just take the demon away, and judge the real you. But now we know the real you can be affected by mental illness which is subject to drugs. How can that person possibly be judged the same as the neurotypical?

[@tino5617]

I've been arguing for this for about a year now, not sure if the thought came from me or from a quick statement made while exploring theism. If my friend is certified skitzophrenic and he has voices in his head, but on the other hand a believer who says they talk with Jesus, how is that not the same thing? If I hear voices in my head telling me things I'm crazy, but if I stick a "GOD" somewhere in there it's an immediate new perspective, usually more accepted by a majority than the prior. EDIT: P.S. Goes without saying Matt, thanks for continuing to be an inspiration to those looking for civil conversation and rational debates on religion. Hope to see you soon in Austin sometime, I'm down the road in SA. Much love.

[@bellezavudd]

Matt cracks me up in every video 💗 So where are the lazy believers. ? On their knees, or does that take to much work.

[@Patricia-sp2nl]

As a former Pentecost and a lifetime mental illness sufferer, the explanation that I received was that God grants special grace and forgiveness to those who are not mentally sound.

[@robertjimenez5984]

This is something that had me thinking when a was a Christian. My grandmother stab my grandfather thinking that he was someone that came to hurt her. My grandmother had dementia and didn’t recognize my grandfather. He did not die, but it was a close call. Was she responsible for what she did? No she isn’t. Christianity is a irrational belief in every way possible.

[@cratonorogen9208]

If the soul decides whether we pass or fail god’s judgement, and not our deeds or mind, then what’s the point of it all? We are unable to change the soul, it came readymade for us, it pre-existed our brains. Are thoughts due to the soul? Then so should be mental illness. But again, souls pre-exist the brain that’s affected. Our beliefs change sometimes, so does the soul change? Our brain changes, physical damage, psychological stress, hormones, chemicals from outside, inadequate health and so many reasons. What’s the soul doing when this happens? Isn’t forming a belief a “deed” or is it pre-packaged at birth? Why would an atheist be punished if they cannot change their souls? God already designed us knowing which souls will end up in hell. Sorry for rambling but it’s inherent in this discussion because the whole system doesn’t make sense.

[@JohnFnLopez]

So many mentally ill people are on fire for god in a very Karen- like way. A buddy of mine who was raised without any religion, didn't care if someone was gay, or bi, or poor, or lazy, or sexually expressive. He didn't care what music other people liked, or what they ate. He was open, expressive, outgoing, kind, and social. Mental illness started developing as he became an adult. He slowly became anti- social, a loner. The complete opposite of who he was until then. Anyway, he developed a toxic religious belief so that he suddenly became judgemental of everyone, especially those in his life. I haven't spoken to him in over 20 years. He still lives right down the street in the same apartment today. Not a single person we knew together has expressed to me anything but ,"what the hell happened to him?" His beliefs are now Q anon levels of WTF. Religion, in my experience, is tied to Mental illness in a way I haven't heard explained before, which makes me question my own observations.

[@littlebitofhope1489]

What happened to him? He got sick. That part is simple. One case is one case. You need to do some research before you can really say anything about religion and mental illness. And the psychology community has a real bias against connecting religion and mental illness, so you are not going to find much research supporting your claim. For your friend, his religious behaviors are nothing more than a symptom, just like the isolation and the depression and delusions. It sounds like you are judging him for something he can't control instead of being compassionate and understanding that when the brain does not work, bizarre behaviors occur. You abandoned him because he got sick. Doesn't that say more about you than him? You don't have to reconnect with him, but you do need to really think about which person is actually behaving worse. The one with the illness, or the healthy one judging someone for having that illness?

[@ummmno3871]

@John Lopez What a Karen way of looking at your “buddy’s” mental illness.

[@JohnFnLopez]

@@littlebitofhope1489 that's your reply? Seriously? I didn't abandon him. He made it clear I was no longer welcome in his presence. Also, I asked a question, then literally said, "in my experience..." and you decided i made false claims and judged my behavior. Did you know you can have a thought and not accept it?

[@littlebitofhope1489]

@@JohnFnLopez Yeah, and you had to edit to make yourself look better. None of my claims were false based on your original comment. It seems your friend is better off without you if this is how you behave.

[@JohnFnLopez]

@@littlebitofhope1489 Liar. I re- read my post and fixed a spelling error and a punctuating error. Go fuck yourself, Karen.

[@skepticsinister]

Outstanding work here Matt Dillahunty!!! I agree with you maximally. Thank you 🙏 for your service towards the progress of humanity, you’re a hero! If a theist/apologist fails to produce evidence for a God/god when it is requested (or otherwise), THAT in itself is proof there is no God/god. This is what the world looks like without a god, this is it, we’re accountable to ourselves, according to our evolving morals. Christianity is an absurdity. Religion is no solution for the requirements of humanity in the 21st century.

[@graysonharelson9378]

I’ll hear Christian’s say “well god will judge everyone fairly and nobody’s going to get ripped off” and i don’t really know where in the Bible it really clears this up. And if it were true, how is it not a rip-off that a “man whose testicles have been crushed or cut off shall not enter gods kingdom”?

[@mindymild]

We know that there are people that are born without the ability to empathize and we called them sociopaths - so what would the believer say? that their god condemned them before they were born?

[@montesa9136]

Two Key Points to address these questions: 1) There is NO GOD 2) There is no happy ending for poor mental health

[@ChibiRuah]

i read the title too fast and I was worry this was going to belief is a mental illness (where i think very sound minds can be wrong on things). But the idea of Mental illness and sound mind vs judgement and true character is very interesting. In a legal sense, I do find it hard to tell where we should draw the line between someone being insane or something going wrong with their brain and were its someone that needs to take more accountability for there actions (and scale up to the level of God the question of "can go really punish us for how he made us" is one i feel partly lead to me finding such ideas of god not very believable).

[@Prohass]

Traditionally the mentally handicapped were viewed as being more innocent or closer to god. But it was just a cultural response to a complex issue

[@Clem62]

I judge my computer all the time. Correctly so.

[@annferguson3113]

I went to a Baptist church in the early 90s and I had one holier than thou person tell me that having depression is akin to demon possession. I immediately left that church and while I’m spiritual, I don’t follow any religious dogma.

[@RonJohn63]

5:16 God would know (if there is God), right? 6:15 Why? A theist would say, "you do the best you best you can" and "only God truly sees the soul". 6:29 There's no defeater for faith. 8:14 That would be the consequence of the Fall of Man. 9:12 That's faith. 11:42 "You do the best you can do. That's what God judges you on." 12:48 "We don't/can't know how God judges every edge case." 14:51 That also is faith. 16:28 Human judges judge people differently based on their mental state. Why can't God? 17:31 No explaining unless you already believe. 18:18 Evidence??? Dude, religion is *FAITH.* You should know that...

[@Kolopsych]

Not the direction I was expecting, was thinking you were going to blame holy visions on mental hallucinations. Never considered being judged on the actions

[@charlidog2]

I am looking for an AEX video, hosted by Matt, from many years ago. >I think it was on or near a cold month holiday. Xmas or Halloween perhaps. >the other host was a guy. I can't remember more to narrow it down. >the two hosts read a script of a discussion. It went kindof like this. If we worship Roy (this was not the name), he will give you a thousand dollars if you move from this town. >There was a section about the rules that roy gave the town. >They talked about relatives who had received the money, even though communication with someone in town after you moved away was forbidden. > the holiday might have been Easter. >I've been looking for this video for so long, I have forgotten most details. > The guy in the story's name was Hank. Yeah! >I'd take someone else acknowledging the clip happened so that I know I didnt imagine it. Thanks in advance to anyone who can help.

[@davidcodeandgames]

As someone on the spectrum, I've always found it difficult to understand religion and other illogical things. I realized Santa wasn't real when I was like 5 or 6 and tried to look at it logically. If someone had that capability, our government and military would be holding hearings about the national security implications or trying to use it to create weapons. Some people physically can't comprehend certain concepts. I think about other mental disorders too. What if you had multiple personalities where you had an atheist personality mixed with multiple theist personalities? What about bipolar disorder? Why allow people to get social anxiety if you want them to be able to spread your word? My parents decided to pray for me instead of taking me to the psychiatrist to help with ADHD, Anxiety, and Depression symptoms. I'd always felt different and uncomfortable for the years I was forced to go to church until i was 18. I remember thinking to myself "this is some crazy bullshit" and I do recall multiple times where the church leaders would use the same verse to argue two differing points. My parents also didn't let me socialize outside of the church. This damaged my social skills and I still struggle with socializing to this day. I occasionally get thoughts such as "what would god think?" when I do something that religion would frown against and have had panic attacks from driving near churches. I think that children should have the right to not be forced to attend church. Your brain is developing and is more malleable while you are young and religion preys on this to try to force an ideology on people so they don't have the right skills to cope with certain things, thus forming a lifelong dependency on the church. During this time, you should be learning how to think, not what to think. What is the difference between telling a kid that you will be tortured if you don't believe in a deity versus other forms of child abuse? Because of the abuse, manipulation, lies, and other harms religion cause, I will hold a disgust for religion until the day I die and become worm food or donate my body to science.

[@stevesmith7268]

I have been diagnosed with schizophrenia. I have reason to believe that my particular condition came on quite early, at least to some extent, at about age 8. I have noticed that my inability to decipher reality correctly sometimes involves a step-up process of schizophrenia with delusion. If I am somehow able to circumvent the delusion through cognitive analysis, and am able to come to an empirical answer to thwart the delusion, an intrusive thought surfaces that 'tries' to create a loophole, which may lead me to believe that the original delusion is true. But it is all analysis of delusion, and has no bearing on actual reality, no matter how strong the feeling may be that it is true. Perhaps this particular way of thinking may be akin to what some fundamentalists will do with evidence. They seem to use a similar way of thinking to delude themselves purposely into believing what is required, generally something non- empirical. A defensive mode may trigger this, when confronted with specific evidence.

[@VaughanMcCue]

I have printed your comment to study because I think you are onto something. Your thoughts are very well worded. Thanks for your interest and contribution.

[@stevesmith7268]

@@VaughanMcCue Thanks

[@Tormentor0411]

Gonna miss you Mat

[@charlidog2]

What does that mean?

[@Andrea.1tree]

I saw his goodbye on the Atheist Experience yesterday. Is he also going to quit this channel?!

[@perplexedon9834]

I've also talked to Christians about this, including on the non existence of libertarian free will. It almost always comes down to either "God knows, we can't", or a much more detestable "literally everyone deserves eternal conscious torment by default because we have fallen short of the glory of God. Whether it's our fault is irrelevant, in fact everyone who is saved is saved at God's whim. We have no say in the matter, and every soul God forgives is an uncalled for act of grace/mercy)"

[@pflaster2872]

Dear Matt, been watching your videos with pleasure, I am not a christian but a firm believer in 2 Deities. So here is my take: Why is it likely that God Exists? If something is after there was nothing, we face dogma either way, for god as well as an infinitie universe. So lets examine what our universe looks like according to our knowledge: 2 observations: 1. Universe is manifested 2. Univers is undetermined in base state Problem: if the universe started to exist, which it seems to have done, it should be the cause of the undefined, and causes are determined. not all and nothing at once. If this Universe is on the other hand the work of 2 gods canceling out their determina, then we would have a base state that exists on the will that there is something not nothing. For the different states: Most people, "retarted" or not comprehend that murder and Rate is wrong, so I guess that's the only rule don't be a müdere or rapist. Rest is to evolve: The feeling of hunger for example to get over the desire to stuff something that feeds you and eat when you choose to, same for sex, we can't stand being alone, so we desire a parter, when in stead we should choose to be with someone and so on and on, but that's just my take :)

[@advancedlamb]

seems related to the free will argument tbh. if you accept that mentally ill people dont have the free will to do otherwise, there's little reason not to apply that to mentally well people, especially when you consider that mental illness is basically just a deviation from the norm, but is equally as legitimate a form of sentience as any other, and does not have a special lack of free will

[@PeterMasalski93]

It reminds me of a thought experiment. If advanced super aliens visited Earth with the ability to telepathically communicate with us, influence us (movements, actions, thoughts), and present technology so advanced (medical, engineering etc) we wouldn't be able to understand their design. Wouldn't they be gods in our minds? How could we tell the difference between aliens and a God? If you think about it, the only requirement to make people worship you as a god would be as simple as having the medical technology to bring someone back to life.

[@higany8811]

I wonder what if we could prove that the reason behind faith in a god mostly fall to cathegories like: ignorance/dilusion/mental illness/evolutional trait or just pretend out of fear of a tyrant/fear of death/childhood indoctrination/social pressure/tribalism/etc. All of these cases lack a true motive from a free personality/mind/soul/etc. On what basis would god then make his judgement about the good deeds of these people? Following this logic, having faith would actually devalue the goodness of the people at the court of god. Somehow I think this could lead to a similar paradox which may disprove God. It's like an inverted Pascal's wager. Similarly, we could say that we don't really have a freedom of choice, only there are different levels to the illusion of it. Even if we had freedom of choice, many tough moral dilemmas can be found where it's not possible to find the morally better option.

[@laurajarrell6187]

Matt, damn I love these. When I was trying to cling to my faith, strictly because I didn't want this to end, and that I'd get back all my loved ones, (some even human, lol) I tried to square this. One phrase, where Jesus said 'they will be least in heaven' gave me the idea that hell was reserved for the very worst. And other levels of punishment and reward. It didn't match what the bible said but I didn't think it inerrant. 👍🌊💙💙💙🌊✌🥰

[@Andrea.1tree]

Hi Laura! 😄 So nice seeing you on this channel. I only recently heard of Matt. Maybe a month ago. I really enjoyed his “debates” on Atheist Experience, and now he’s finished with it. Anyway, I hope you’re doing well, and hopefully we’ll hear from Beau soon.

[@laurajarrell6187]

@@Andrea.1tree Oh wow, HI! I love running into my fellow Beau peeps on other channels! That was how I inadvertently said "Beau peeps' the first time! And one of our regulars caught and pointed out the pun I'd missed, derp! LOL . Yes, I've followed Matt for, I think, at least 5 or more years. He's nicer on the 'Debates Project'. lol.😅 😘🥰✌

[@Andrea.1tree]

@@laurajarrell6187 😊✌🏼good night.🌙

[@robertdullnig3625]

I see it as closer to the Problem of Evil issue. I can accept that we have mortal bodies, and that we might get sad or angry when bad things happen. But if we have an immortal soul that interacts directly with the Spirit, then why is there any mental illness at all? Why should any believer have ongoing depression or anxiety? What is the difference between mental health and "spiritual" health anyway?

[@heyalun]

Spiritual health is about your relationship with God. I’m suffering from crippling depression and grief unlike anything I’ve ever experienced. I’d say I’m mentally dysfunctional. That doesn’t mean I don’t still have a relationship with God anymore than my relationship with my other loved ones is lost because I’m suffering.

[@robertdullnig3625]

@@heyalun So there is no spectrum when it comes to spiritual health? You either have it or you don't?

[@heyalun]

@@robertdullnig3625 there’s a spectrum, just like with any relationships

[@robertdullnig3625]

@@heyalun When I was depressed as a Christian, I did not feel close to God. Did not matter how hard I prayed or went to church, etc. Maybe your experience is different.

[@heyalun]

@@robertdullnig3625 did you feel close to him before you were depressed? I’m struggling with the normal spiritual activity, just because my mind is so very traumatized. So meeting with my congregation, teaching, preaching, Bible study, prayer. It’s all problematic, but that’s because everything is. My secular work, home maintenance, relationships with people, my whole life is messed up right now. But I still love God and he loves me and cares for me, just like I love my human parents and they love me. My love is not diminished because I’m struggling. I just may not be able to show it like I normally can. God doesn’t expect anyone to do more than they’re able to do.

[@somethingyousaid5059]

I can't think of a part of the human being that isn't a total liability. Especially his brain.

[@AdamKlownzinger]

As hard as the idea of eternal punishment is to justify, and as hard as it is to justify “sin” when you have an all knowing and all powerful creator God that necessarily destroys the concept of actual free will and thus you only end up committing sins if God however long ago (if time is even an applicable concept here) decided you should, both are even harder to justify when you realize that some people actually seriously cannot be accountable for their actions, even by the poorly thought out standards of Christians

[@TheRatzor]

This one the one topic that has always plagued my mind it make no sense to all be judge the same

[@davidfigueroa6351]

Not to Christians because they always come up with an automatic excuse. "The mentally ill get a free pass " or some other bs. I don't have to explain that christianity is full of all kinds of excuses to explain just about anything.

[@evetall5142]

for me causality doesn't fundamentally exist , colors , gravity , time , so zero chance that god exists.

[@Pepsolman]

Saying that your soul operates separately from your mind is certainly a defeater for free will.

[@allstarwatt7246]

It is a meaningless statement. One would first need to demonstrate that a soul even exists.

[@nagilumsnangilima]

How can one differentiate between someone who has intent or a guilty mind and someone who is mentally ill on the divine level (without saying that God "just knows" of course). Well, I suppose it would be somewhat similar to how it's done in a courtroom-- the legal standard for insanity being something akin to lacking capacity to appreciate the nature or quality of one's actions or not being able to distinguish right from wrong. And you would need the testimony of an expert such as a criminal psychiatrist or psychologist to establish an opinion that the criminal defendant is mentally ill to get to that legal standard (the legal standard being separate and distinct from a medical standard). Essentially, a mental illness or insanity defense would require either some diminished mental capacity, irresistible impulse or mental defect preventing one from thinking clearly. This works against the guilty mindset because one who has an irresistible impulse, diminished capacity for understanding or a mental defect would not plan a crime out or premeditate. Thus, there is a vast difference between someone who suddenly bangs their head against the wall and someone who buys high-powered rifles for the purposes of shooting people. I hope this helps.

[@dq2727]

there is no "evil" only ignorance. We are all trapped in the prison of our history, habits, and perceptions. Punishment is just about making more victims; natural consequences are motive enough. What people need is the means to make their life work, w out harming others, not the motive to want that.

[@apowave]

I think of my faith as methodological Christianity. Kind of a ‘what would Jesus do’ mentality and try to carry that thought in every situation.

[@jirenthegray2904]

Hi Matt, just wondering if you've read the God series by Mike Hockney, and Truth series by Dr. Thomas Stark? Thanks!

[@happyninja42]

I do find it interesting, just how easy it is for people with mental issues, to incorporate a religious element to their dementia/delusions/etc. While I can only go off personal experience from people in my life, but every person I've known who was schizophrenic, was HEAVILY religious about it. In fact their religion was so ingrained in their illness, that it actively prevented them from seeking treatment.

[@DemiImp]

I think the main answer to your problem is that people are not judged equally

[@klumaverik]

What's that thing called where you basically ask a person questions about their beliefs to clearly understand their position and guide them through their own thought processes with patience and respect?

[@Mezza_Luca]

Socratic method?

[@alexalexander9434]

Why do you rarely use defeaters in your arguments?

[@matthewalan59]

I had never considered this issue and the problem it presents for theists. Thank you for presenting it and explaining it so well. I know I have free will because I directly experience it. However, it is also obvious to me that the processes in my brain are fully determined. Right now my brain seems to be quite healthy and is creating an intelligent mind. Given my current mental situation it is impossible for me to have even the slightest inclination for accepting any standard sorts of gods. It is impossible for me to come to any conclusion other than the conviction that most theists are wilfully and egregiously stupid. The simple fact is that I would have to become seriously mentally ill in order to swallow any of the nonsense that theists proclaim. So, on the one hand mental illness may in one person cause them to perform evil deeds. On the other hand good mental health makes it impossible for some to regard talk of gods as anything but fairy tale bullshit.

[@Hammer9001]

Not where I thought this video was going. I thought it would be more along the lines of various forms of mental illness having demonstrable effects on the religiosity of people. I can't remember who presented this as an argument against religion, but the jist of it is Asperger's Syndrome appears to disincline people toward religion and Schizophrenia, Bipolar Disorder and Geschwind Syndrome often carry with them religious delusions and hypereligiosity as symptoms. Through this, we can show that religious thinking (be it as a social behavior, an explanatory tool, a coping mechanism, etc) is something that the brain is inherently wired for, thus making it far more likely religion just came about as purely human constructions of our brains, looking for answers/fitting in as opposed to any actual supernatural involvement.

[@elevown]

Hey Matt - let me present what would be MY argument for this issue (Im athiest so I dont belive in any of this) but- Why do you assume god has to judge people the same when they have brain damage or other mental issues? Given the all knowing nature people assume their god to have- can't we just assume god takes such issues into account? For example if you become a pyschopathic murderer after a sever brain injury, he will judge you on your life up to that point and ignore anything you did afterward because he knows it wasnt your fault - you were not 'in your right mind'? We could say the same sort of thing for people with reduced mental capacity- children, elderly, people born with mental issues etc- just assume god can accurately assess to what degree that person is affected and he applies - lets call it a points modifier to your good and bad deeds judgements - like 1.1 or 0.9x modifier to the weight of your deeds when he is totalling them up on the scales? (I dont mean he litterally thinks in terms of 'points and scores for this- thats just my way to explain he weighs your deads different depending on your mental faculty). You could apply the same to the brain damage issue rather than just not judging you afterward he judges you on a greatly modified scale. Maybe your whole life is judged on a sliding scale that god varies the 'value' of your actions for good or bad, depending on your mental acuity at the time of those actions? For example a young child's actions could be considered to be worth 0.2 out of 1 modifier on the scale, and thus for good or bad, will not heavily influence the end of life 'score' they get? I dont think I explained that well- but hopefully I got the idea across. That's just what occures to me as a fairly sensible way for a thiest to explain it.

[@cliftonmanley3882]

We are all different. Essentially, this means, we are all the same. Are we "equal"? What does "equal" mean in this context? This is the problem with philosophy... it generally degenerates into "which dictionary does that meaning come fron?" Duelling Words... that's "asinine", that's philosophy in today's world.

[@wandereternal9559]

well if theres no free will then the whole thing falls apart anyway mental illness or not, nothing we do or behave is our choice. so the christian judgement is meaningless nonsense

[@TSpartanDR]

Correct me if I’m wrong, but there’s nowhere in the Bible that says God is a fair being. Given that, then unfairness may be permissible in his governance model, including judging everyone with the same criteria and same weight, even though their mental faculties vary widely.

[@JamesM1994]

This is reinforcing my calvinist impression of the christian god

[@noexception9598]

have you retired only from ACA channel or you quitting from another channels too. I mean are you going to debate on other debating platform like you regularly did in the past on other channels or not. I am a bit confused about this.

[@mbouw21]

Would calvinists just respond with something to the effect of “well, limited atonement, sorry people with schizophrenia.”