This Company Shook The Outdoor Industry

This video is not about the gear this company made, its about 50 years ago how it changed the outdoor industry forever with ramifications that are financial, political, and cultural and are still with us today.
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[@WayPointSurvival]

Good video! I fully agree that commercially made gear marketed to the masses is not adequate for real Backcountry long-term experiences.

[@sargevining]

Thanks for watching! For modern gear for backcountry, there's a couple cottage vendors I've used, and I'd not go for any of the Chinese designed stuff. The irony is that today all of the materials used are made in China!

[@ScottCarlson-cz7wj]

50 years hindsight. What is good for the consumer vs. what is good for America. Selling out America for globalism. Now it's gone into our biggest industries; aircraft manufacturing, ect. All we can do is pray, sit back, and watch. I love the outdoors though and, love to do things as cheap and simple as possible, with old, indestructible, gear. It's how I roll.

[@sargevining]

Most swords have two edges. Nixon's intent on normalizing relations with China was to show them how well Capitalism worked. They learned the lesson well, but didn't abandon Socialism. They're attempting to us Capitalism to destroy Capitalism.

[@rockettmanagain]

Thanks. Brought back a memory. In 1974? Not totally sure. I bought a Snow Lion down jacket, fully baffled. Total over kill for my needs. But hey it was priced right. Ended up getting stolen while skiing in Maine. Great story thank you

[@sargevining]

Thanks for watching! Sorry about the jacket. I've got those two Snow Lion bags I show in the video, I'd not hesitate to use them on 30 degree weather.

[@PNWBob]

I also have a Snowline down sleeping bag. I bought it in the fall of 1973. It has 40 ounces of 550 fill power duck down. My bag has a single zipper design. I believe the double zipper was used on their top of the line winter sleeping bag. I also seem to recall discussions on whether duck down was equal to goose down when both had the same fill power. Duck down was less expensive than goose down.

[@sargevining]

My Snowline also has a single zipper. IIRC, the double zipper came out when the name change did. Duck down was used extensively in WW2 in order to extend the limited supply of goose down (as soon as Eddie Bauer designed flight suits and parkas, goose down was declared a strategic item). The practice continued post war, but when Snowline took production overseas the relatively cheap and abundant supply of goose down in China and Taiwan made duck down irrelevant. Thanks for watching!

[@filmic1]

What fascinating insight into the industry. (my brother had a Woods' Four Star down sleeping bag he bought in the mid seventies. I still have my Mtn Equip. COOP Polarguard 1/3 zip bag and my 4 season down. Neat that that was a Wayne Gregory concept. I've been a COOP member since '73, I guess. We got sold out to Kingswood Capital in 2020. The COOP is long gone now. 😢 Interesting write up on the bankruptcy on Wikipedia. Bad real estate investments, and too many seasonal gear returns, the article says. We went into an UPROAR about the insolvency because the executive kept it from us. Most of our (COOP) clothing was manufactured in Vietnam and SE Asia, I believe.) Thanks for all that super insight, Sarge!

[@sargevining]

Thanks for watching! The story of how we got the gear we have now is a long one, but worth the telling and I enjoy doing it.

[@pareidoliarocks]

I scored a Snow Lion tent at an estate sale. I'd never heard of them and it was hard to find much info. Thanks for sharing

[@sargevining]

I shall live through you vicariously when it comes to that tent. I have the two bags I show in the video, but I would love to have that tent. Thanks for watching !

[@ROE1300]

👍 Excellent episode! It told a good story, but left us all with a thought provoking question. I do not have any answers. Like you I see the pros & cons and at this point one list does not outweigh the other in my mind. A true, honest, and detailed discussion would take more time than available in a KZbin comments section. But, having said that, your video and ending question should all our minds working over time. It has put my brain in gear. Thank you.

[@sargevining]

Thanks for watching! I did think the question was almost required. I felt I couldn't just report the facts and walk away, niether did I want to l3ave it with just my opinion. It is a mixed bag of good and not so good outcomes. But this is actually the most momentous devolopment in camping gear of the 20th century.

[@ROE1300]

@@sargevining Agree 100%, it was the biggest game changer you have presented thus far. And, you have given us some significant game changers. Like all things in life there never just one answer and with good comes a little bad. I believe that U.S. labor and cost of goods has done as much harm as goods from China. If properly supervised the Chinese can produce a quality product. Not supervised, or poorly supervised, the desire for profit will drive the Chinese to take “shortcuts”.

[@markbrandli]

Thank you again for the wonderful history , I hope one day to talk to you and trade some " camping stories" .

[@sargevining]

We're close enough that could happen. I'm headed out to SHNF Four Notch camp (LST Trailhead #8) in about an hour. Will be doing at least one more before the end of April. After that it gets a bit too hot for an old man.

[@bartnickerson4467]

Way cool - did not think SnowLion would make your videos. I bought a SnowLion tent (2 person, symmetric, double ended entrances, low catenary ridge), it was advertised based on air dynamics. Ordered via a store in Boise ID right as the company hit problems. But I got it from the pipeline as SnowLion was no more. Question: do you have Alpenlite in the queue? Like SnowLion it got a lot of my attention in the late 1970s.

[@sargevining]

Technically, yes, Alpenlite is in the queue, BUT, they're not scheduled as of yet. The plan is to finish the "big developments" from 1890-1990 then go back and "fill in the cracks" of smaller companies and individuals. I've already got a couple from the 30's in the works (one of them is something I should have done already). I also need to do more of the Living History content as that represents about half my viewership. But I will get to Alpenlite, Camp Trails, and Jansport at some time in the future.

[@grhinson]

I have a time keeping question about your mantle clock. What make is it?

[@sargevining]

Its a Seth Thomas that I need to get repaired. Thanks for watching!

[@dwaynestewart6095]

well, that was a very interesting story. I'm not really sure how I feel about that since so many companies selling a vast array of all sorts of products are doing the same thing. I'm glad that the camping gear is affordable. so as long as the seller is honest about where it comes from and they aren't charging ridiculous prices like hilleberg. then it's up to the customer whether they want the product or not. Dwayne

[@sargevining]

Yah, we need to set our priorities. Inexpensive and readily available or more expensive cottage goods or custom made in the US. The tragedy here, I think, is that all those cottage and custom goods on the market today are made with materials made overseas.

[@dwaynestewart6095]

@sargevining I have no doubt. a great example is Harley Davidson. Sadly, it's no more American than Mao Zedong

[@DamianBloodstone]

I have thought a while about your question. "Is it good?" Maybe, but the poor quality of some cheap products sometimes leaves people in danger in the wild. Although, most products are made in China, and not a bad thing for most things. I still try to buy American when I can. The China quality on some things such as more expensive tents (Snugpak) has come a long way at first then began to go downhill. Price is the indicator of quality in most of China made products. Look on the tags and most everything including camping and hiking gear is made in China or with China made products. Only cottage industries exist still in the US that make very high quality extremely expensive products now.

[@sargevining]

Agree on the poor quality stuff, but that's been a problem for a long time, really. The irony with today's cottage market is that they're all making things using material and fittings made in China. Thanks for watching!

[@toml.8210]

If you leave a cheap tent in a box in the garage, it will just fall apart after a year of cooking in the garage. It needs to be in a sealed box or bag, in a cool, dark place, like a basement or closet.

[@sargevining]

Most folks who buy cheap tents to use once or twice a year at a State Park will store them in either the bag that came with them and/or the box they came in. I have several cheap K Mart and other department store tents made in the 70s/80s that were stored that way which I use as loaners to folks who want to try out Backpacking Revolution camping and they are just as viable as the day they were sold. But it also depends on where the garage is. If its down here in TX, the outcome is going to be closer to what you describe than it would be if the garage is in Maine. I have a backpacking friend who will go out backpacking with me and several others, all of us using hammocks. But once a year there's a gathering where family comes along and he brought the same cheap Walmart tent for them to sleep in while he slept in his hammock for five years straight. He did have to replace it the sixth year. But the folks who use a tent once or twice a year will just go out and buy another cheap tent even if the first on falls apart after a year. Having that opportunity is a good thing.

[@corsair6]

Sounds like you're experiencing the polyethylene used in the coatings breaking down and becoming 'tacky' . The hot/cold cycle in a garage or, attic will exacerbate this, causing the coatings to become 'tacky' thus upon unpacking your tent, the process resembles pulling apart a fruit roll-up. You will find this effect happening with both cheap tents and heavy coated expedition tents.

[@sargevining]

@@corsair6 I have about a dozen PU coated packs and tents. In this case, PU has two meanings----

[@AttemptMade]

I thought PU stood for polyurethane? That’s not to say that I have any experience with the phenomenon. As someone looking to get more into backpack camping it behooves me to determine what’s what in the lower price point.

[@sargevining]

@@AttemptMade It does, but its also the thing most people say when they smell something as funky as the smell Polyurethane has when it starts breaking down---

[@fredrodriguez177]

who would buy the products if people here have no jobs to buy these bags? Homemade gear here will be on an up roll in the future because of inflation and lack of disposable income to do these things.

[@sargevining]

Supposedly, we've moved on to an "information economy" and don't need manufacturing jobs the way we used to, but it looks like we are losing ground there, too. Even with MYOG, we're using fabric and materials made overseas. That's one reason I like making Classic Camping gear, I'm generally using heritage fabrics made here on this country. Thanks for watching!

[@sargevining]

Supposedly, we've moved on to an "information economy " and don't need manufacturing jobs the way we used to. But it seems like we are losing ground there, too. Even with MYOG we find ourselves using fabrics and fittings made overseas. One of the reasons I like making Classic Camping gear is that I'm generally using heritage fabrics and fittings made here in this country. Thanks for watching!

[@57WillysCJ]

One of the great things about today is people are interested in making their own gear again but also have online sources as well as video to make it happen. I should point out that they can order and get materials that were once hard to get. In the old days a guy going in to a fabric store was strange but the materials were not easy to come by either. If you lived in a rural area you knew what SOL meant. Don't know if you see this guys videos but this one has some interesting classic gear. kzbin.info/www/bejne/d3msaGdqedRlmaMsi=iHypA10LZHN8VrYd

[@sargevining]

James is a member of Bannerman's camp and we've corresponded. I hope to meet him some day. I know what you mean about the availability of fabrics today. I just bought 3 yards of linen to make a mattress (video coming soon). I'd never have found it at JoAnn's.