Saucony Endorphin Pro 4 vs Asics Metaspeed Edge Paris, Nike Vaporfly 3 & Adidas Adios Pro 3

[@leohamlynblessing]

The reviewer I have been waiting for all my life. Great visual comparison of the widths of the shoe. This is what I wanted in a shoe review. Keep rocking bro 💪🏽💪🏽💪🏽

[@SagasuRunning]

Thank you! I’m glad it is helpful. 🤙🏻

[@Simo.PT.]

Second this. Width in the heel for a heelstriker in particolar Is a parameter that's not considered enough. Tried briefly the Sky Paris in Asics shop and feeled It very wobbly and ustable (for comparison i feel the alpha og stable enough)

[@olmowie]

@@SagasuRunning For me the same. Thanks, i'll buy the Endorphiin Pro 4 because of this realy good review!

[@SagasuRunning]

@olmowie It’s a great shoe. Enjoy them.

[@techfan811]

I just ran my first half marathon in the Endorphin Pro 4 today, and I'm impressed! As a stability shoe wearer, transitioning to a super shoe was seamless with the Pro 4. It combines the comfort and rocker I'm used to from the Saucony Tempus with a more dynamic, race-ready feel. It's fun, fast, and still provides some stability (however I can definitely feel that it is no stability shoe). Highly recommend for anyone looking to try super shoes!

[@SagasuRunning]

If you are coming from a stability shoe…. The EP4 is BY FAR the best super shoe for you. It’s definitely not a stability shoe, but it’s going to feel familiar and a platform you can work with and adapt to for racing.

[@SenthilRameshJV]

@techfan811 I’ve been recommended stability shoes but so I was running in Tempus. I recently got SPEED 3 and so far I’m doing fine in them. Did a HM long run last weekend and going to race a HM this weekend. Would you say EP4 will work for me someone who runs around 10:30-11 for marathon pace? I also have a Superblast 2 coming in as I heard it is stable too. Plan is to use Tempus for easy, speed 3 for workouts and Superblast for long runs. And switch to EP4 or ES4 for marathon in November.

[@soobinhan7653]

Wow - this was incredibly helpful. Thank you!

[@SagasuRunning]

I'm happy to hear that. I hope it helps you narrow in on the right shoe. 🤙🏻

[@yiann1sk]

Very informative Chris. Your advices about Endorphin Pro 4 are spot on. Yes they are less sexy but they might be the better option for most. Also true about Adidas and heel strikers. After the punishment Edge Paris gave to my ankle a month ago (still haven't recovered), I run today's half Marathon on the Adios Pro 3. Managed my second best time ever limping and my feet felt better than after the race on Edge Paris 4 weeks prior.

[@SagasuRunning]

Glad you got through the race with your ankle!

[@yiann1sk]

​@@SagasuRunning Many thanks! I considered to run it on Superblast but on Saturday I tried both and strange as it sounds the Adios Pro 3 was the most comfortable option for my condition. (Superblast has a protrusion on the arc side that was getting in the way of the swollen part). Having run half marathons both in Edge Paris & Adios Pro 3 a month away, EP is by far the sexiest and fastest option, just caution for wide footers, it's not for everyone. I learnt it the hard way.

[@Chungdol]

I really appreciate your thoughts and videos and agree a lot. Especially your final thoughs completly nailed it. I recommended the Pro 4 a lot to non elite runners who search a racing shoe. My personal opinion: I still think the Endorphine Elite is under the radar. But yes, I dont see the Elite on many Pro's either or I'm just blind, maybe because Saucony isn't shopping runners? I mean Hellen Obiri would win the most races even in a Brooks Ghost, but ON is shopping runners like crazy, they pump BILLIONS into marketing over the past few years. Since I own both the Elite and the Pro 4 I have to say the Elite feels better than the Pro 4 in all aspects. Yes - they do run very differently, but from my aspect as a midfoot striker the Elite is just way superior to the Pro4. But there it is something what you mentioned - maybe the Elite fits so well to me because it welcomes wide feet a lot. It also just throws you forward with its super aggressive rocker, but its not throwing you high, it just manages to get you perfectly in rythm. And its amaaazingly stable. I look more stable in the Elite than in some lighter stability shoes. A lot of fanboying from me to Elite, as it got released I didnt like it. Now I love it. PERSONALLY, I would never compare the Pro4 to a Vaporfly 3 or Edge Paris... and there is the point, I think the Pro4 is somewhat overpriced and I think this shoe fits more in the category of a super trainer, aka SC Trainer v2. But for that Saucony has the Kinvara Pro - a shoe that I also do have and that is very weird, its not fish but also not meat. Its not bad, but also not great, its not firm but also far from being soft. I have seen the Endorphin Elite for 140bucks in sale recently for people who are interessted to try. Btw: I do train in the Adios Pro 3 it's probably the most durable "racing" shoe out there, but indeed as a midfoot striker - as soon as my running form suffers I feel the cutout and it makes my feet hurt somehow. Your overall knowledge is just sooo good, its a pleasure to listen to you.

[@SagasuRunning]

I said this in another comment… but I do think the shoes in this video compare well as they are all low plate configuration shoes. The Elite is basically Saucony’s atrempt to make an Adios Pro 3 and a Metaspeed Sky hybrid. If I was going to do the video comparing high plate configuration shoes (which I’m not given I don’t really care for them) I’d start with the Elite and compare it to the AF3, Sky Paris and SC Elite v4… as they are are comparable. I would add the Adios Pro 3 and the Hoka Cielo x1 in there too as shoes that could go either way.

[@Chungdol]

@@SagasuRunning I see - may I ask why you dont care for them?

[@gheco]

Helpful, detailed and well thought out review. I was considering the Sky-Paris or EP4 for my next marathon…your review has me leaning more towards the EP4 (or maybe run again in the AP3 -I ran Berlin-23 in those) never disappointed. I trained in EP3 for my last block and felt the foam compressed too much by mile 17-18. I’m sure that’s improved in v4.

[@SagasuRunning]

The PWRRUN HG gives the Pro 4 more legs. I have noticed the PWRRUN PB only midsole on the Speed 4 can feel a little flat on a hard 10mi/16k run… but I never experienced that with the Pro 4 and the new foam is very noticeable in foot feel. Adding HG to the Pro 4 was a very good call.

[@na1582]

I’m so glad I found your channel - the content is so well put together and presented. I have wide over-pronating feet so have struggled to find super-shoes that work for me, until the Pro 4s came along. Two marathons in two weeks, two PBs and not a single issue. They are stable, comfortable and fast without feeling aggressive. They will work for a lot of people

[@SagasuRunning]

So good to hear this and validate my thinking on the EP4. It is a great shoe that fills a big gap in CF super shoes for alot of runners! Thank you for the kind words on the content as well! 🙏🏻

[@nikargiropoulos9433]

@@SagasuRunning You're welcome Chris - I've subscribed and currently working my way through more of your videos. Also added you on Strava :) Cheers from the UK - Nik A

[@subhi2698]

Ah finally! I do enjoyed now more the speed 4 with combination of AP3. It feels natural to me switching between both.

[@SagasuRunning]

I'll admit, it's a strange pairing, but if it works for you...go for it. Part of running is figuring out what works for you the best.

[@JuarezRichard]

I tried both Metaspeed Sky and Edge and my ankles are not strong enough for such a narrow shoe, I was able to race on them for 10km and thats it, they are indeed very fast. I just bought the EP4 and is a much stable shoe that is easier to adapt as a non elite runner. I will try them for a 21km and see how it goes. I think your reviews matches a lot of what I feel on the shoes I bought. Awesome work thanks for your videos!

[@SagasuRunning]

Ya, the metaspeeds really work the ankles, especially on uneven pavement. I'm glad the EP4 is working well for you. It's a great shoe. Enjoy them. I'm happy the content I make is helping too. 🤙🏻

[@tomyang714]

Love your unique perspective and explanations, and it is really helpful !

[@SagasuRunning]

I'm glad it is helpful! 🤙🏻

[@alihusseinTO]

Thank you for this wonderful review. Always thought the metaspeed felt too large for me as my feet didn’t sit properly. But you cleared up my misconception. The soles are quite narrow so no wonder my feet didn’t sit properly and I felt my feet were rolling off to the sides.

[@SagasuRunning]

Ya, that definitely can be an issue with the Metaspeed Paris series. The high and narrow platform will feel very offer if your feet spill over the sides. Definitely an uncomfortable feeling and loss of performance. I’m glad this video could help.

[@frederickfung6245]

Great comparison on the widths at different portions of the shoes. I hope the easier fit nature of the Endorphin would prevent pain / discomfort during the end of marathons, in turn, produces better performance.

[@SagasuRunning]

Depends. The more compliant upper and added width (stability) should benefit many when form breaks down…. But at the same time they can feel like they are getting I. The way. I will say the Pro 4 upper is very accommodating compared to any other super shoe I’ve tried.

[@Boulevardfree]

Another great value video. Genuinely helpful.

[@SagasuRunning]

I’m happy to hear that it is. 🤙🏻

[@Shafiqsenin]

Lovely review! One thing to add is the outsole of the shoe last longer then the list stated above. If im going to spend that much money on a super shoe; it better last long

[@SagasuRunning]

Race shoes with super foams, tuned for performance, are never going to be durable. It's no surprise the outsole often outlasts the rest of the shoe.

[@colinking5742]

Bro, I said, whilst alone, out load; “This is exactly the video I’ve been looking for” I’m kind of in this market and of course cross shopping these. You do such a great job in your reviews. You answer all the questions I would have asked. I swear that every review video says SO MUCH without really helping me with any consensus. I have a ten mile race coming up and trying to make a decision. Giving the Metaspeed a few trial runs and I’m definitely warming up to it but as a 330 marathoner, I’m assuming I’m more of an Endorphin guy in this market. (Love my vaporflies and won a 5k in them but def not great after 5 miles for my weak ankles😂)

[@SagasuRunning]

So you have the MSEP/MSSP? Are you finding any stability issues and/or ankle discomfort in them?

[@colinking5742]

@@SagasuRunning sky paris, I’m off work, lacing these up now. First run (only a 4 miler after a 13 hour shift in the hospital) felt tough but my personal conditions were a little rough. Unstable at the heel. Hard for me to imagine my sb2’s and mssp are both size 11 by the same brand… and the sb2’s are the anti-trainers for this as your race day… I’ll report back because I’m planning on doing 7 today as I have a 10 miler race that I’m gearing up for in 3 weeks (weird distance idk). Ty again for the bomb ass content.

[@SagasuRunning]

@colinking5742 Are you a heel striker? Ya, those definitely don’t sound like optimal conditions for a test…but you gotta do what you gotta do. I’m curious on how this one works for you. Keep me updated. Also, thank you for watching! 🤙🏻

[@colinking5742]

@@SagasuRunning final verdict - I’m going to race in the mssp. I had a very pleasant 6 mile run today sitting slightly better than goal pace for my 10 mile race coming up. I do appreciate that wide chunk of foam on the inside of the forefoot for stability. The part where I’m unstable is when the sidewalk or road is not completely flat side to side. It does stress on my ankles to do a little extra stability. I run in Pittsburgh which is an old American city and has large stretches of the sidewalk tilted to the left or right and I had to position my step appropriately to fight that; whereas my sb2s I confidently plod forward. Still felt fast, propulsive, and comfortable. I’m happy enough with the results of the day to not have to run out and grab some endorphin pros.

[@colinking5742]

And I’m a mid/forefoot striker. I can’t even fathom how people heel strike haha.

[@willwu1688]

I have both the Saucony Endorphin Pro 4 and Vaporfly 3 in my rotation. I use the Vaporfly 3 for my speed works (along with Saucony Endorphin Speed 3) and the Pro 4 for longer distances training runs. I tried the Asics Metaspeed Edge Paris few weeks ago in a store in Tokyo, I don't think I can run a 4hr+ marathon in those so I didn't get them. I ran in the Adios Pro 3 in some long runs in the past but I just find the responsiveness of the foam is too aggressive for me. Overall, the Pro 4 is just more friendly for me.

[@SagasuRunning]

Interesting...I'm prefering the AP3 for most longer runs lately, especially if they have some threshold work in them. Thats classically what I've always preferred the Vaporfly for, but lately the VF3 is feeling a bit too soft for me. I'm really preferring the feel of Lightstrike Pro lately. As I said in my initial impressions review, while I like the EP4, I don't see myself running init much...as I have better or faster options, mainly the three other shoes in this video...and will eventually add a AF3 and whatever Adidas releases this year.

[@willwu1688]

@@SagasuRunning Something I didn’t mention was I had issues with my right knee and I remember the last time I did a 24km in the Adios Pro 3, my knee was really tired for nearly 2 weeks or so. Being a bigger and heavier person, I have this preference of softer shoes. I ran a full marathon at Taroko Gorge last year in a AF2. They just work for me. AF3 are just too aggressive for me. I have learned over the past month, good shoes are those that matches what I can do. I sold the AF3 and picked up a pair of TYR Valkyrie Carbon Elite. They are pretty good for bigger runners like me.

[@SagasuRunning]

@@willwu1688 The instability on the laterial side of the AP3 will do a number on ankles, knees and hips if you aren't ready for it. I remember your race last year...then the TYR makes sense coming from the AF2!

[@morganvon5664]

Excellent review. I recently purchased the Paris Edge and have been doing intervals and tempo runs in it. I must have a narrow foot because the Edge fit me perfectly in my normal size. I totally agree the Edge has a fairly stiff ride. I have run hard 1/4's on up to 5 mile tempo runs and the shoes don't beat me up. I feel like the Edge is far stiffer than the Vaporfly 3. But it's just as fast, if not faster, at both short intervals and longer tempo runs.

[@SagasuRunning]

The Edge Paris is definitely stiffer than the Vaporfly 3 but the geometry does help you out more, which many will prefer. You can't go wrong with either though.

[@Laolu90]

Great review, and you are very right about the instability in the heel of the Metaspeed Edge Paris which is something I noticed immediately after taking them for a test sleep. I thought I was a midfoot striker but after taking a look at the photos of me during a half marathon I ran yesterday (went for my novablasts 3 because of ankle pain) I noticed that I revert to heel striking especially when I’m gunning for it. So yeah, a little concerned about using the Edge now for my marathon training for October.

[@SagasuRunning]

That sort of thing is definitely something you can work on in training and given how much of an emphasis the Edge Paris has on the mid and forefoot it would be a good training tool to work on refining your footstrike. The Edge Paris is definitely not a fun shoe to heel strike in.

[@alanorcharton8855]

I also touch down on the heel and used the edge Paris my last marathon. I felt a little unstable early especially when the roads were bad but got used to it - even forgot about it. I really loved them for the race. Achilles stiffness for a few days after though.

[@SagasuRunning]

Good to know you had a great race in them. The Achilles soreness is likely from the 5mm drop, especially is you train in 8-10mm trainers.

[@Laolu90]

@@alanorcharton8855 yeah that’s reassuring, and well done on your marathon!

[@winston_chow]

Hey I love the video. I'm going to get my first super shoe for a 5k race, but I would like the shoe to also work for longer distances. I'm wondering if the endorphin pro 4 or the aidos pro 3 is better for me. I am a stride runner who supinates and heel strikes. What do you think?

[@SagasuRunning]

Both will work, you likely can find a good deal on AP3s. However, if I had to choose I’d go EP4 as it’s going to be a better heel striking option and the speedroll geometry will benefit you more in the shorter distance of 5k…. But also work as you grow into longer runner. Both shoes will be very durable.

[@muroami3076]

I have VF3 and Adios Pro On point description between Adios and Saucony Pro 4 which is more stable than Adios. I’m excited to try Saucony Pro 4 Great Review.

[@SagasuRunning]

Thank you. Hopefully this was helpful for you. 🤙🏻

[@CharlesLately]

Very interesting comparison. I can tell you're a fine runner/tester from 21:00: this is a problem I noticed as well when running in AP3 , especially on uneven terrain and one of the reasons why I sent back the shoe: that horrendous cutout nearly costed me an ankle - luckily I managed to correct on time. I can tell you NO tester I'm aware of never pointed out this flaw on this shoe. By the way, running in lots of shoes (and probably more a Nike guy than an Adidas one) I cannot say enough BAD things about AP3.. the upper isn't terrible, the shoe is fairly clunky (too much underfoot) .. yes the foam is good I admit it but honestly between VF2/3 and AP3 I would go VF all day. Luckily for Adidas EVO1 looks to be a better shoe and without those midsole cutouts..

[@SagasuRunning]

I think that cross shoe camber/rocker in the forefoot on the AP3 is by design. It’s there to smooth out the initial foot strike as well as flex the smaller rods under the two small toes. I find not that I’m used to it it’s not a problem and I kind of like how it feels on smooth terrain. I’ve always been a Vaporfly guy… but as of now the AP3 is feeling best. Though if I actually was going to race a half or full right now it would be a HARD choice to make for me between them. I do agree that the Evo 1 is the ideal between the two. I’ve had it on my foot, in store, it really does feel ideal. I’m working on getting a pair… we will see. 🤞🏻

[@CharlesLately]

@@SagasuRunning Thanks - yeah my problem is exactly the "smooth terrain" - unfortunately where I run I frequently go through/by uneven terrain and not always on track and I came to the conclusion it was too risky for me. I Kept the Takumi Sens for speed workout and watch-out for the terrain (they have a similar design but since they're closer to the ground they're a bit more stable). Good luck with the EVOs, I've heard also some Adidas PROs can't get it.. but I'd love to see your review of those. Crossing fingers!

[@GradoRuns]

I’ve tried all of these shoes on foot, and the only one I felt comfortable in was the endorphin Pro 4. I do have a slightly wider foot, but there is no way I’d feel good running a marathon in anything that feels as constrictive as the modern racing shoe. The endorphin pro 4 stands alone for me.

[@SagasuRunning]

You are a prime example of the type of runner I was referring too then. The Pro 4 just works, with no drama, and works well. Enjoy them.

[@edrios3668]

The Diadora Gara might also work for you, it’s a bit wider than a regular supershoe, but still fast, it has a higher plate position, so more like the Sky Paris than the Edge, just less firm.

[@pseudoty]

I have all of the shoes in this comparison and as an older slower, 8 min/Mile, heel striker I am really enjoying the Saucony Pro 4 and I couldn’t even run in their Pro 3. After swapping out the laces with a set from an old pair from my VF2 no issues, no break in needed, cushion comfort and stability that keeps my legs going and feeling fresh. You are 100% spot on with the Edge Paris they are more for elite runners. I could not relax and just run in them because I felt if I took just the slightest misstep I might hurt myself or even go down. You need to have a fast perfect stride on even terrain for these shoes. I am still working on a lace/sock/padding solution for the Adios Pro3 as they give me a blister on the outer aspect of my right large toe knuckle. Still deciding if and when I can find the AF3 if I will try them supposedly they have better heel striker support than the VF3 and allow you to run faster without increasing your HR.

[@SagasuRunning]

I swapped the Pro 4 laces with the laces out of the Asics Metaspeed Sky Plus, before they went into the donation box… a big difference in lockdown. Finding the right sock (or bandaid/plaster setup) for the AP3 is hard… but it’s worth it. The midsole/outsole is so so good. The Edge Paris is a great shoe… but not one you can wear casually easily. When you put it out you need to be prepared to work hard in it. Like the Vaporfly, it will reward good form.

[@hfurbano]

I use lace lock laces for my Adios Pro 3 and they haven’t made me blisters again. The fit is not so good but at least the don’t hurt me 😂

[@SagasuRunning]

I’ve seen that at a solution. Though lace lock laces don’t work for my foot usually.

[@sts265]

I was so excited to use the ep4 as my first marathon shoe, but when trying it on, I realized that the heel was strangely narrow. I felt like I was stepping on the edge of the insole on my medial side…something I’ve never experienced before. Such a shame because the rest of the shoe felt great. Surprised that no other reviewers have mentioned this. I must have freak feet lol😅

[@SagasuRunning]

I don't find the heel narrow at all, in both the midsole and fit. In fact I find the heel fit to be generous, with decent lock down and the midsole heel width is way too wide for my taste. As a forefoot striker though the heel flair only gets in the way occasionally and the heel lockdown is good (though I rarely have heel lockdown issues).

[@chinpoeykhoo6261]

This is definitely one of the best Supershoes comparisons between multiple brands, much appreciate especially for slower runners which haven't tried any Supershoes yet so far, the size measurement from the shoes bottom outlined a much bigger and clearer picture than pure data and statistic especially for different footstrikes runner. How would you compare the Endorphin Pro 4 vs Pro 3 for a beginner runner aiming for Sub 4 finished time? Planning to get my first carbon racer to replace my Speed 3 or is Speed 4 actually good enough for this pace over the 26.2 miles? Male height 5.6 feet weight 143 pounds

[@SagasuRunning]

I never ran in the Pro 3, I did try it on with I bought the Pro 4 and found it WAY too soft. The Pro 4 is a softer shoe but it’s a good mix of comfort and performance. For someone your weight and for a sub 4 time you’ll do fine in either the Pro 4 or Speed 4. I would recommend the Pro 4, as it’s got more structure to it and you’ll appreciate that towards the end of the race. But at your weight you can get away with the Speed 4… honestly you might want to consider both. One to train on and the other to race on. Better yet. Pair the Pro 4 with the upcoming Triumph 22 and have everything covered for your marathon training and racing.

[@chinpoeykhoo6261]

@@SagasuRunning Great advice, can't wait for upcoming Triumph 22 with powerrun PB foam to replace my Kinvara 13 as daily trainer!

[@pseudoty]

The Pro 4 is almost an entirely different shoe than the Pro 3 and if you like your speed 3 the fit and feel is closer to the Pro 4.

[@SagasuRunning]

@chinpoeykhoo6261 You’ll be set with those two shoes. Great combo.

[@SagasuRunning]

@pseudoty I don’t run in the 3 series but did try the Pro 3 on in store… really didn’t like how it felt and how soft it was. Happy I caked back to the brand with the Speed 4 and Pro 4.

[@Minionthesecond]

Great review. Thank you

[@SagasuRunning]

Thank you for watching! I hope it was useful. 🤙🏻

[@merlinesque]

Interesting you mention the upper issues at the end of the eyelet chain on the Adidas, but love the Takumi 10. Both the Adidas Pro 3 and the Takumi 10 wrecked the top of my big toe joint, had to return to the Takumi 9 for yesterdays London marathon. I guess just different feet, different results!

[@SagasuRunning]

The Takumi Sen 9 upper was brutal on my feet… to the point I could no longer wear the shoe. The upper on the Takumi Sen 10 is a totally different story. Absolutely no issues and one of the best Adizero uppers in years. The AP3 upper is poorly designed and built… but worth trouble shooting for the glorious midsole.

[@michaelburns263]

Thanks. How does the Pro 4 compare to the latest NB SC Elite?

[@SagasuRunning]

I’ve only tried the NB SC Elite V4 on in the store and it was an instant nope for me… I can say the NB SC Ev4 compares more the the Endorphin Elite as it runs more like a high plate configuration shoe…. Not the low plate of the Pro 4.

[@gabr131s]

Great review. I was choosing between adios pro 3 and endorphin pro 4 for my first supershoe (coming from endorphin speed 4). Ended up going with adios pro 3, absolutely loving them! They are pretty versatile because I feel as though I can do shorter fast workouts with them (1.5 to 3km), but I know I can also take them for long workouts as they are comfortable for that too. Also I tried both on at the store, I think the toe box is shorter for adios pro 3, but I’m not sure if you should go half a size down on the endorphin pro 4 or stay true to size

[@SagasuRunning]

The AP3 is a great shoe, I’d say it’s the better shoe as well. It’s definitely one you can train extensively in AND race… it’s quite durable for a super shoe. I went TTS in both the AP3 and EP4, Size 9 US Men’s for both.

[@gabr131s]

@@SagasuRunning good points, thanks for your opinions! Yeh i probably would have also gone TTS if I went with the SEP4, just noticed it is slightly roomier at the toe box for me, but that’s not a bad thing. Seems to me like it’s still an awesome shoe but probably more tailored to those really long distance miles! (Marathon / half marathon specialist shoe). Happy to hear on many reviews how durable the AP3 is for training and how it can be used for races!

[@mangpots7284]

This is really helpful! Thank you!

[@SagasuRunning]

I'm glad it was helpful for you.

[@mangpots7284]

@@SagasuRunning i have the endorphin pro 4s. But also want to get metaspeed edge. I have slight wide feet. Would metaspeed edge paris fit? I do enjoy the fit of ep4.

[@SagasuRunning]

@@mangpots7284 The MSEP is much narrower than the EP4, both the fit and the platform. Would you consider the EP4 a tight fit for you?

[@mangpots7284]

⁠@@SagasuRunningi dont think the ep4 is a tight fit. I think i really like how it fits my foot knowing I have slight wide feet.

[@SagasuRunning]

Then the Metaspeeds aren’t going to be great for you. If you even remotely feel like you have a wide foot… the Metaspeed ms are very narrow. I’d suggest trying them on in store if you can and see if you can tolerate the fit.

[@Trailrunner1978]

Thanks for video! Researching this for months. Dont have a big budget and dont buy often. Being a heavier slower runner: My other carbon shoes (next 2 and Adios Pro 2) at marathon pace for me make me ask: Can I get more shoe, more width, more focus on heel and midfoot, less focus on forefoot, more normality. Saucony Endorphine Pro 4 is gonna be my next marathon sho. The width is really the decider. I just can't function at Marathon pace without focus on heel and midfoot. Gonna try it on in store but I guess its gonna be the Pro 4 this year.

[@SagasuRunning]

100% this is the Saucony Endorphin Pro 4. In fact I ran in my pair this morning and the two thoughts I had were “this feels like a normal shoe” and “wow, the midfoot and heel stability is solid, not just for a super shoe”. This will be your best bet, as newley all other super shoes have a forefoot bias. Other shoes to look at would be the Saucony Endorphin Elite 1 (not 2) or the Adidas Adios Pro 3…. Neither are as good or what you want as the EP4….

[@michaelgriffiths305]

First class review AND the best comparison video I’ve ever seen on KZbin. The objective stats really help. For example, I love ASICS but that Meta Speed is really NARROW! Your own input on the Adios pro 3 left me wandering (as a slight supinator on my left foot) if I’d fall foul of the gap? Given my weight height and width of my foot I’m concluding a Saucony Pro 4 is probably the likely best bet when I fork out for my first race shoe. One shoe I’d be really interested in seeing your review on once it is out is the new Puma Deviate Nitro Elite 3. Puma seem to have put together a coherent line. They tend to be reviewed as “good value” but ultimately lose out to the bigger brand in 1-1 versus. The new DNE3 has been worn by pros with success, appears Puma’s pros shoe of choice over the de coupled heavy Fast R so once it’s out be intrigued on how it faces off against a Pro 4 or Meta Speed Sky etc! Thanks Chris “excellence as standard” appears to order of the day on this channel.

[@SagasuRunning]

I'd agree that the EP4 is likely the best first CF super shoe for you...it likely is for everyone. I have really enjoyed the Puma Velocity Nitro 3 and will definitely cover the Deviate Nitro 3... as for the Deviate Nitro Elite 3, it depends on if I can find them. I'll see about that when they do release.

[@tono1665]

Great review although I’m having doubts now about whether to run a marathon in the edge Paris(3 hour marathon pace)

[@SagasuRunning]

It’s an extreme shoe… the best bet is to see how it does on your long runs (32k+) in your build… you might be surprised.

[@davidg9120]

Great information! I love super shoes but i tend to not do well for shoes that are on the unstable side. I find the vapor fly 3 to be a little unstable. Sounds like the edge would not work well for me as I tend to heal to mid foot strike. I recently got the adios pro 3 on sale but it had a mfg flaw with the heel stitching where the stitching sticks out on the heel and the pad on that shoe was off set enough so the stitching rubs. I ran just a few miles in it and did not notice it to be unstable and really liked how it felt running but had to return it because of the stitching issue.

[@SagasuRunning]

The AP3 is stable because of the width. But the forefoot has a secondary contouring to it, across the shoe, that can be a bit problematic for some. It took me a while to get used to it.

[@louismurphy1403]

Awesome running channel, hugely underrated, thanks for the great content. Out of interest, how does the narrowness of the Asics compare to the Vaporfly 3. I have reasonably wide feet and would like to try some Vaporfly''s

[@SagasuRunning]

Thank you for the kind words. To answer your question... Can I assume you run comfortably in a Metaspeed Paris Series (or Plus)? If so the VF3 will feel vert loose and wide. Asics race uppers are very VERY good race fit. Not tight but not sloppy feeling either. They are something you are always aware of, in a good way. The VF3 upper is the opposite. Much more roomy. Much more loose, almost baggy (depending on your foot). However, that is where it works. once you get the lockdown right, which takes some effort, the upper (and shoe) disappear on your foot. Something a Metaspeed never does (and I'm currently preferring the MSEP over the VF3).

[@louismurphy1403]

@@SagasuRunning Thanks. And no i do not own any Asics Shoes. I have the AF1 which i love but sadly are coming tot he end of their lives. I also have the Endorphin Speed 3 which is a very roomy shoe IMO and great for most types of run. I did own the Nike Tempo next% but had to stop using them as they were just too narrow in the midfoot and toe box. Was probably a tad confusing when i asked you to compare to the Asics when i don't actually own any, however I'm pretty sure by looking at the specs that the Metaspeed series would be too narrow for me, hence the question.

[@SagasuRunning]

@louismurphy1403 Likely, you are right. The VF3 wouldn’t not be though.

[@louismurphy1403]

@@SagasuRunning great, thank you.

[@ClubmanGT1971]

Superb video 👌

[@SagasuRunning]

Thank you for watching. 🤙🏻

[@Picco462]

Amazing video, i dont have the usual problems with the AP3 uppers. However, I have encountered some arch issues due to my somewhat flat feet and how much I had to really sinch up my laces. Was there anything you know of that could fix that other than the sock method, would love to hear yours or other peoples thoughts on them!

[@SagasuRunning]

Fix the arch issues? Nothing I know of. The big gap in the midsole under the medial arch doesn't help at all. Finding the right sock, fixes the pressure points in the upper on the top of the foot. A sock with some cushion and a material that grips the Celermesh material of the upper so your foot doesn't slide around.

[@fergusdenoon1255]

I buy some sticky backed foam from my local "Hobbycraft" comes in 1mm/2mm/3mm thickness, smooth or patterned, can solve a lot of issues, like sticking under the tongue for a better upper fit or to stop lace bite, or insole issues, might help somehow, weighs practically nothing.

[@SagasuRunning]

Worth a try and possibly useful for arch issues.

[@Picco462]

@@fergusdenoon1255 is an eva type foam or just a thin piece of something else? Can’t really find the keywords on Amazon

[@ethansilverstein308]

How would you say the vaporfly fit is compared to the sky Paris? I have a slightly wide foot for my size, and the vaporfly is way too tight and narrow for me, but the sky fits like a glove - meaning it’s not too narrow but the shape of it really wraps around my foot and is actually quite comfortable. Also, currently racing in the endorphin pro 3 and planning to get the sky Paris for future races (sky feels so much better for my forefoot strike than the edge). Interested to know your thoughts.

[@SagasuRunning]

The VF3 has a very accommodating upper. Not as wide as the Sky Plus was though (the shoe was a race fit but had a wide forefoot). While I didn’t like the Sky Plus, the shoe fit my foot like a glove. It had an outstanding fit. Compared to that shoe, VF3 fits narrower, but the accommodating upper means there is room to spare to make it work. The Sky Paris fit slightly more narrow on my foot than the Sky Plus, but wider than the Edge Plus, which I prefer the fit of.

[@Fozzee.1970]

The Pro 4 heel whilst wide cuts in strangely at the base and can dig in. Felt weird to me. Also the heel didn't feel locked in even with a runners knot. I wamted to like it as it was more stable for a bigger runner. But re-tried the Edge Paris am now keeping that for 5ks and 10ks. Not sure i could take it to a half.

[@SagasuRunning]

The heel in the Pro 4 is definitely wide, which is a HUGE limiter for me using the shoe. I didn't find the fit to be bad in it, not like the Speed 4, but I can see where there could be issues.

[@Fozzee.1970]

​@@SagasuRunningfrom the limited try I had with the shoe I found them too soft throughout the shoe too. I could see it could be a nice long run training shoe but it doesn't feel like a race shoe. Rather do my long runs in the Superblast.

[@SagasuRunning]

Interesting. I also don’t find them too soft. Especially compared the Vaporfly 3 and Evo 1.

[@Fozzee.1970]

I am 100kg so I'm sure that makes a difference. And only got a few strides in them as I couldn't get them soiled. Just felt like the whole shoe sunk as it landed with no real roll through. The Paris Sky felt firmer to me. However the Edge Paris feels softer but only in the forefoot so rolls me through. I'm probably not explaining it well. But they just felt soft and dense. ​@@SagasuRunning

[@SagasuRunning]

Ya, at 100kg most shoes will feel soft to you. FFTurbo+ is firmer the PWRRUN PB/HG… so it makes sense why they felt firmer for you.

[@brianreiter5572]

I now understand why the Saucony Endorphin Pro appeals so broadly. It has to be about the heel strike friendliness which is more common among non-elite runners. I agree that the Adios Pro 3 upper design is weird with the little stupid eyelet loops and the midfoot lockdown strap over the forefoot. I don’t understand what they were thinking. However practically speaking for me it’s been no problem whatsoever in any sock I choose. Usually I wear a Balega Hidden Dry which is an ultra thin minimal sock - unless it’s just too cold for that and then I use a mohair sock. Maybe I have particularly insensitive feet? The center forefoot rod on one of my Adios Pro 3 is broken now. They are runnable but it makes a popping noise and even can make it with my finger pressing into the middle of the forefoot contact patch. That must be the highest force moment spot. I kind of wonder if the rods are a brand gimmick for marketing and to avoid a patent dispute with Nike or a real engineering thing. I wish the AP3 was lighter and I’m reluctant to buy another pair at this point because surely another model will come soon?

[@SagasuRunning]

I originally thought Adidas’s rods were a bit of a gimmick to word around Nike… however I think there is something to them now. I’ve realized just how important flex is to a carbon fiber shoe, the Nike Vaporfly being the gold standard there. Most other CF plates are just too stiff IMO… except Adidas’s rods, which give a nice flex over the length of the shoe AND across the shoe, especially for a forefoot striker. The feel of an Adidas plated shoe is very different because of that. That being said, as we move into lighter and lighter shoes with more open foams… I’m curious how long Adidas will be able to hold onto that design. The downside is durability of the rods… they are much more fragile than a plate. … and yes, the AP3 upper is baffling from a design standpoint. The last place you went the mechanical lockdown of the eyelet chain is in the forefoot…. 🤦🏼‍♂️

[@brianreiter5572]

You are very unlikely to break a plate but with the rods it is possible. On the other hand it is not really required for a race shoe to last 600km without any issues. It is such a brand thing now with the cutout for 3 stripes of rods even that it seems like they want to find a way to keep them if they can.

[@SagasuRunning]

@brianreiter5572 “Marquee design element”… Adidas wanted a tech that was theirs and theirs alone… I think they will try to hold onto it as long as they can…

[@rizalfauzi8395]

Hi Sagasu Running, great videos, just wanna ask about toe box room in endorphin pro 4? i had triumph 21, and i must go up size by half caused by narrow toe box. Love saucony shoes, but up size by half make me feel slower when rolling in the rocker (saucony store only available in big city in my country, cannot try on this shoes)

[@SagasuRunning]

Hmmm, I never wore the T21, but I did try the T22 on and found it much wider than the EP4. The EP4 is possibly the widest super shoe available, but super shoes are mean to be race fits and fit tight to the foot...so "wide" is relative here. I agree that sizing up often puts your foot in the wrong place for the rocker (Speedroll), though if your foot doesn't fit in TTS...you gotta do what you gotta do and work around it.

[@rizalfauzi8395]

@@SagasuRunning thank you for your reply mate, i didnt have this issue in my ASICS and adidas shoes, but i think I will try it for my 1st plated shoes.

[@SagasuRunning]

Hmmm…The Metaspeed Paris shoes are ever narrow. They may be the most narrow super shoes you can possibly buy. Even for my foot they run narrow (nice tight race fit though). For a wider fit the EP4 is your post bet and the Adidas Adios Pro 3 is your next best. Neither are “wide” shoes, but compared to other super shoes they are the widest you’ll find.

[@rizalfauzi8395]

@@SagasuRunning thank you for your feedback mate. in Asics and Adidas, id never buy their supershoes. hopefully this Endorphin pro 4 can works well for me.

[@arvinsandiego2686]

Why no new balance sc elite v4 and hoka cielo x1?

[@SagasuRunning]

They are neither top tier nor very good in my option. Plus both are more a high plate configuration shoe (in ride) and a different comparison from the low plate configuration shoes in this video.

[@arvinsandiego2686]

@@SagasuRunning i see. Thanks for cleaeing it up. Keep up the vids. 😁 Hope you can do a seapratr vid for that category of race day shoes. A more comfy side i guess?

[@kurtrodney3809]

I tried on the Metaspeed Sky Paris at a store and it was fairly stiff. Is the Edge Paris just as stiff even with more foam under foot before the plate? I think the Pro 4 may be the way to go as it seems less aggressive but would be more comfortable.

[@SagasuRunning]

Both Metaspeeds are the same shoe, besides the plate configuration. The Edge Paris is just as stiff. I do think the AP4 will be the way to go once it’s out… but the MSEP is outstanding.

[@kurtrodney3809]

@@SagasuRunning Thank you!

[@jackatmensacosacoaching]

Although I think you shouldn't skimp too much on a few bucks, as your shoes are an investment in your joy of running (and performance) the price is a consideration as well......Saucony is overly expensive in the UK - the pro4 is £230 whereas the Asics MS Paris is under £200. And......with the release of the Adidas Pro4 coming soon, you can get a Adi Pro3 for around £150

[@SagasuRunning]

Fully agree… 💯

[@a2dazgod539]

Adios pro 3 ‘s big cut out in the forefoot is a big flaw. Your foot rolls outwards as you push off making the shoe unstable.

[@SagasuRunning]

Not for me… as I rarely engage it as a forefoot striker who supinates, it might as well not even be there. It’s weight savings for me. Given the way Adidas heavily favors forefoot strikers… it’s there for a reason.

[@brokenfreddy1262]

Still waiting for a foam with varying cushioning from top to bottom..virtually every shoe is either a brick or bottoms as it heats up..the pro4 is getting closer,but not there yet..I do like the upper..

[@SagasuRunning]

You need a mix of foams then… so really only the Pro 4 is doing that since most other super shoes are a single super foam. I do think a full PWRRUN HG Pro 4 would be a better shoe though…

[@adamg8683]

Currently have brooks ghost and SL2. Looking for a race day shoe Pro 4 be a good option for me or should I go Pro 3?

[@SagasuRunning]

EP4 all the way. The EP3 was too soft. Plus the EP4 gives you the combo of PWRRUN PB + HG…. Which is a combo with a lot of performance in it.

[@adamg8683]

@@SagasuRunning thanks for taking the time too reply! Really appreciate the videos! Got my first half marathon coming up soon!

[@SagasuRunning]

Thank you for watching! Also good luck with your upcoming race. 💪🏻🤙🏻

[@adamg8683]

@@SagasuRunningran my first race event today Manchester 1/2 marathon 1:31 so close to been sub 1:30 crew! Pro 4s 10/10 thanks for the advice 👏🏻

[@SagasuRunning]

Congrats! 💪🏻

[@Rik4rdinh0]

Hello I Will try my best english from Portugal . I have vaporfly 3 , endorphin speed 4 , sky paris 3 . I run 10k in 3:50 pace To be honest i think endorphin speed 4 ia more agressive then vapor fly 3 Asics sky paris just make a short run and dont have feedback, but its not easy to run If you have to pick up 2 shoes for 10k and for 21k 42k ? What you pick ipê, for paces like 4.3/km , with weak knees

[@SagasuRunning]

Weak knees I’d say the Endorphin Pro 4, it’s more stable than the Speed 4. I agree the Endorphin 4 series feels more aggressive off of the toe due to the SpeedRoll technology. I also agree the Metaspeed Paris series has low feedback and can be challenging. If I was going to go race a 10k…. I’d likely do it in the VF3. A marathon right now would be in the Adios Pro 3.

[@CorGP]

The pro 4 seems to have more value for what a runner is looking for. I see plenty of people using these for workouts and long runs, not just races. Can’t really say the same about the other shoes.

[@SagasuRunning]

There definitely is alot of value in the EP4. It is very versatile.

[@kbrellin]

Very helpful

[@SagasuRunning]

I’m happy to hear that. 🤙🏻

[@jackodea8952]

You said that the Adios Pro 3 is the 2nd best race shoe for heel strikers. Whats the no. 1 best race shoe for heel strikers? Thanks!

[@SagasuRunning]

Saucony Endorphin Pro 4… by ALOT.

[@i.p2088]

Endorphin Elite ❓

[@SagasuRunning]

I don’t have it, don’t plan on buying it…. It’s not on par with the top tier of super shoes and the Pro 4 is a better shoe for more runners. Additionally the Elite compares more to the AF3, Sky Paris and SC Elite v4. If I ran in those shoes (high plate configuration) and was going to make that video (I’m not) then I’d cover it there. If we see an Endorphin Elite 2 this year I might cover it and compare the two shoes head to head…

[@markoljustina]

I try Elite when they came out but don’t like them first; now, i try them again, over weekend, after EP4 and Elite feel much faster; i agree that it is not time for them now, hope you will get Elite 2

[@i.p2088]

@@markoljustina Elite has better fit? More toe room?

[@markoljustina]

@@i.p2088 hmm, can’t say ; i do 4 sprints in both of shoes; i dint feel any feet problem; i have narrow foot; try both shoes in same size but EP4 is little bit longer; BUT i shortlisted Elite

[@markoljustina]

@@i.p2088 bad news, i just brought Sky Paris for autumn marathon

[@abufit_]

Can you make a video on magicspeed 4? On paper, it seems like a superblast with a plate.

[@SagasuRunning]

Nope. I won’t be covering the MS4. I was a huge fan of the MS3, but with the MS4 Asics destroyed the shoe. We didn’t need another generic “super trainer”. The Superblast 2 is a better option all around and if you need a plated shoe either Metaspeed Paris is a much better option. The MS4 doesn’t need to exist.

[@abufit_]

@@SagasuRunning fair point. Appreciate the response :)

[@SagasuRunning]

@abufit_ I talked a bit about it more in depth in my “SB2 vs NB4” video…. If you want my full thoughts and alternatives in the Asics lineup.

[@elliotendures]

Looking back at old vids of yours. Considering adding a plated shoe for track work to alternate with the Adios 8. While not unstable, I don’t feel like the AP3 (my distance racing shoe) makes sense for the track. EP3 feels too soft. Wondering if EP4 would work well? You take it on the track at all? Also considering the Endorphin Elite, which should be firmer yet. Anyway, would love your thinking.

[@SagasuRunning]

The Endorphin elite is Saucony’s copy of the Adios Pro…. You don’t need it for track work. The EP4 is too rockered. The ES4 is ok… but there are better options. If you don’t want to Takumi Sen 10 (or a Vaporfly 3), which are your best options…. The ASICS Magic Speed 3 (not 4) is your only other good option.

[@elliotendures]

@@SagasuRunning Unfortunately, I have slightly wide feet, which has made past iterations of the Takumi Sen (I tried 8 and 9) just not doable for me. I assume VF would have a similar issue as it relates to width. I’ve wanted a wide Takumi Sen forever. I think that shoe would sell really well.

[@SagasuRunning]

@elliotendures Then the TS and MS are out. The VF3 has a very accommodating upper… but if your foot is hanging off the sides it’s no good. Worth a try if you can try them on. The ES4 is surprising capable at MP thru 5k and beyond. It’s just the first is sloppy and the materials feels very cheap, but the shoe sure performs. It’s also not that wide (not sure if their is a wide version) but it’s is very stable. The EP4 may be your best bet then. Wide(r) plated shoes are a rare breed. The only other one I can think of is the AP3. The EP4 is close to it but more mellow than the AP3

[@BikeRunTech]

I own the Endorphin pro 4. I must say it's a fantastic shoe but the poppy sensation disappeared after 300km of running. Further I find this show not very forgiving on the long runs. I ran some half marathon (pace 4:00/km) and really felt my legs. when I am running on my alphafly 3 with the same pace and further distance 30k I feel totally fresh. For me the endorphin makes sense as a 10k shoe. totally not fit as a marathon shoe

[@SagasuRunning]

A big aspect of super foams, that many overlook and just focus on resiliency, is their recovery aspects. Nike's ZoomX foam is the gold standard here for how well it takes care of your legs and lets you recover. PWRRUN PB has never had that ability (beaded foams just don't seem to have it) and while PWRRUN HG is a great foam as far as performance it doesn't seem to have an real recovery aspects to it. Super shoes are not magic...ultimately they help you maintain pace for longer AND recover faster. Super foams need to do both.

[@TimGrose]

It is interesting isn't it how the shoe companies look at the same problem and come to somewhat different conclusions on the relative widths of outsoles. Then again there is a bit of a curveball from Nike as the Alphafly 3 is way way wider in the outsole than the Vaporfly 3 and even that has a very "sloppy" and "roomy" upper compared to at least the VF1. As such I think the AF3 would be wider in this context than any of the ones you featured. I haven't yet seen a "need" to pick up the Endorphin Pro 4 partly as I only used the previous 3 versions in a rather limited way although I did think the Pro 3 felt closest to a Vaporfly without being one with the caveat that the ASICS Metaspeed shoes aren't made in my size (US 14). Further not sure how the Endorphin Elite compares to the Pro 4 in this context. I was worrried that the Elite would be too wide for me but it is actually OK. Never really felt for me however that it was significantly better/faster than the Pro 3 but presume Saucony sort of intended to make the Pro 4 more accessible with somewhat ironically their actual pros more in the Elite?

[@SagasuRunning]

Given the shoes you have I can’t see why you would need the Pro 4, other than to make content. It is also a shame the Metaspeeds don’t come in your size. Everytime I run in them I think how much they would likely fit you and you may actually enjoy them. It’s a shame. I do find it fascinating how each brand does come up with their own POV to the same problem. And yes, the Nike AF3 is likely the widest shoe on the market, in the forefoot at least. I think the Pro 4 may win for the midfoot and heel… though given NB’s current design direction the SC Elite v4 may take that… or a Hoka…

[@TimGrose]

@@SagasuRunning ah forgot about the Hoka & NB ones - definitely shoes I also don't "need" as they look both wide and heavy too. I am not doing a marathon this year (well as it stands) either. With the Pro 4 not sure there is now much "useful" to add for content's sake. Bit of a danger I am seen as somebody who wastes a lot of money on shoes I should have probably knew would not like that much! I got "told off" in one comments section about my AF3 views. Oh well ! Yeah shame about the ASICS and hard to fathom their sizing stragety when they actually offer some of their running shoes in sizes bigger than even Nike do.

[@SagasuRunning]

Ya, Asics sizing is all over the place. It’s always very odd, even here in Taiwan. You definitely don’t need the Pro 4. There are some much better super shoes coming later in the year… as well as some important trainers in the coming months. Plenty to discuss.

[@subhi2698]

​​@@SagasuRunningI do wonder why brand makes confusing sizing chart across region. Cant they stick to same sizing.I would love to see your videos when you mentioned about size/upper/fit/toe box room, you can show to us the on foot video while explaining the details. Love to see your take on this too.

[@MyFatAdaptedLife]

Have you considered teaching, Chris?

[@SagasuRunning]

Haha, I have in the past, though not professionally. I have taught younger designers various design skillsets over the years.

[@asitmohanty]

We are all students of chris here 😂. Amazing work man

[@MyFatAdaptedLife]

@@SagasuRunning Your lecturing/teaching prowess is evident in your presentations. Kudos.

[@SagasuRunning]

@Wings_nut 🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻