Spiderman 2: How to Write An Iconic Scene

[@savagebooks7482]

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE get Browntable to see this lol he posted the same video and now I want to buy a lottery ticket.

[@maxschreck9988]

Link to his video?

[@eduardomunhoz1581]

I received notifications from both videos and assumed it was some sor of collab and that the two videos would complete each other omg no way it was an accident

[@platypusbunneh]

I really enjoyed both your takes!! It's like the pointing Spiderman meme with you two.

[@Dzakaleh]

Oh ok cool, I thought u were doing the one horrific scene thing

[@maxschreck9988]

Having now watched both, I feel like Savage Books did it better, but Browntable got a sub from me for his effort.

[@nemonomen3340]

Honestly, those fingernails tearing up the floor was the most memorable/horrifying part to me.

[@SignificantSparks]

All it needed was a crap ton of blood.

[@aim-9sidewinder550]

@@SignificantSparks things could of gotten more gore if the movie was r rated

[@edmundkim007]

I had to slap my headphones off.

[@TheComicMaster1995]

That’s scene stayed with me for a long time after seeing it Waited to see it done justice in the game and was so disappointed when it happened off screen

[@nemonomen3340]

​@@TheComicMaster1995 You mean Insomniac's Spider-man 2018? True that it didn't have a dramatic scene in which Octavius realizes the monster he's become, but I honestly thought that game was _way too good_ with it's writing than a video-game had any right to be. Doc Ock is different in the game, but I think just as good in his own way.

[@AlexWhyte139]

The fact that he's murdering doctors who are people that regularly make sacrifices in their personal lives to do their job (or fulfill their responsibility to help others) is some nice symbolism too. You could read it as him lashing out at an embodiment of what he should be because he's angry that he failed to make the responsible decision

[@ginge641]

Damn bro, you take gymnastics classes to learn to reach like that?

[@sordidspectacle7393]

Unlike the other guy, I like your interpretation

[@K4113B4113]

It’s not him doing it though it’s the AI. He’s even asleep during the whole scene

[@handsomeDRAC]

Except he didn't murder the doctors. The sentient arms did that all on their own.

[@Ignasimp]

The train scene is still the best and most powerful scene in the movie. I get chills just thinking about it. And identity and responsability are exactly what is encapsulated on the train scene too and it puts it to an extreme. His responsability is so big he has to disregard the secrecy of his identity. The people on the train for the other part put him the mask again and promise him to respect and keep his secret identity.

[@SingeScorcher]

Not to mention the responsibility the citizens display when returning the mask and standing up to Doc Oct immediately afterwards. Peter put himself in a completely helpless state to ensure that nobody on the train got hurt. And though ultimately powerless themselves, they did the responsible thing in attempting to help him come out on top and repay his sacrifice.

[@LuisSierra42]

so good bro

[@mori1bund]

One of the passengers saying "he's just a normal kid!" plays into the responsibility and identity theme: he is just a normal kid with so much responsibility.

[@Vocalsama]

Something that always struck me about it, that set the tone for me, was that one of the first things the Doctors do is dehumanize him. It's a simple joke but "Anybody here you take shop class?" reduces Otto to an object, a malfunctioning machine. These doctors aren't here to save a life, they're taking apart a clock. No wonder the arms react with such hostility. As you say, it all comes back to identity, and Otto is having his stripped away.

[@maxxdoutt3585]

I think this is more of a case where “every square is a rectangle” but “not every rectangle is a square”. Following these rules won’t necessarily make your scene iconic, but I do think you’re right pouring through all the ones I can think of that every iconic scene at least follows these guidelines.

[@ChildishGambeaner]

That sounds dum

[@maxxdoutt3585]

@@ChildishGambeaner There’s a “b” at the end of that word, good sir.

[@ChildishGambeaner]

@@maxxdoutt3585 I like spelling it that way to use it as bait, you took it better than most though lol

[@brianlowe904]

R/woosh levels of comedy right there

[@AnakinTheWeird]

"That's proper iconic, not Ubisoft iconic." - Jim Sterling

[@PaceFilmsProductions]

This is something that I miss from earlier films where they weren’t afraid of changing genres for just one scenes. I think some filmmakers are afraid of critics/fans claiming the film was totally inconsistent so they play things safe and make sure none of the scenes step out of the preconceived notions of what should be in that kind of movie.

[@cassofish]

Wow, it just goes to show that even if you aren't entirely aware of all the small moving parts of a well-written scene, it can still affect you (and stick with you) on an unconscious level. Well done on another excellent analysis!

[@ChildishGambeaner]

You saw this scene while you were asleep?

[@Ignasimp]

@@ChildishGambeaner in an unconcious level =/= in an unconsious state.

[@ChildishGambeaner]

@@Ignasimp I looked up the difference and learned something. I appreciate you schooling me without insults my good man

[@Ignasimp]

@@ChildishGambeaner happy to help!

[@senordickhead100]

Cassie could've used the word *'subconscious'* instead.

[@tgr3423]

I think what makes Spider-man 2 so legendary as a film is that there are so many scenes that reinforce the themes of responsibility and identity. A plethora of scenes continue to call back to these themes without being overtly in your face about it; a lot of it is subtle in nature so that you never really *think* about it but you instinctively *know* what the message is trying to convey. And that's just brilliant.

[@yeahkeen2905]

I find it really funny that your two examples of subtle and ham fisted execution of themes came from the same movie.

[@KajianTemp]

Proving that movies can be nuanced - a single movie isn't entirely bad, nor entirely good.

[@Jenamphetam1ne]

you're absolutely right! maybe you should do a in-depth teardown of how Evil Dead 2 is about similar themes since it uses a lot of the same direction and sound design. Maybe talk about how Ash wrestling with his hand and himself in the mirror is symbolic of him struggling with his identity as the chosen one who is meant to stop the Army of Darkness. God knows Sam Raimi intended for the movie to be an in-depth character study of Ash Williams. It would only make sense with how many times Ash fights himself in the movies. Besides what else would all the laughing furniture mean if not a comedic self deprecating look into ones own psyche. Oh and since I mentioned Army of Darkness, you can make a whole video about "Good... Bad... I'm the guy with the gun." That line is symbolic of who Ash is and how he cant decide whether he wants to be a hero or not! honestly you can make a whole analysis of that scene alone. OR maybe Sam just likes campy horror and its its just his style. honestly it can go either way. I wouldn't know since I don't make videos over analyzing non existent themes for a living.

[@t4rv0r60]

one thing to point out: they completely cut the music in this scene so the audience doesent get distracted from what is about to happen.

[@KajianTemp]

I've seen this movie, like, a dozen times...and I never realized the hospital scene was a cautionary inversion of the film's central tenet of responsibility, until I saw your video. My mind is blown.

[@rhozion]

9:17 Now that's Iconic!

[@Darkri56789]

When you said Iconic I thought you meant “Pizza Time!”

[@groofay]

Yep, I saw this movie as a kid in theaters, and in retrospect, it was my second iconic horror scene (first being in Jurassic Park, naturally).

[@zacharyrain4730]

I completely forgot about that doctor screaming her head off as she gets dragged into the shadows and her nails scrape along the floor. It unlocked a huge memory holy shit.

[@alecdickens1042]

"I bet all the lint in my wallet-" 16 minutes later: "Like I said, I bet all the contents of my wallet-" Like, dang, that's clever, consistent, and relatable. It's the small things that demonstrate one's prowess in a given field.

[@spidercraft7854]

"Even completely terrible neratives can bone immortalized if they have a single iconic scene" The Greatest Showman says hi

[@River_StGrey]

Ned Stark's execution is also a really great example of things being added and heightened through subtraction.

[@vicenteortegarubilar9418]

Producer: Yeah Sam....some of your Evil Dead is showing in your Movie, this is a children's movi....he hung up on me.

[@Richard_Nickerson]

Hung* Your sentence sounds like a caveman.

[@ChildishGambeaner]

"movie for child"

[@Richard_Nickerson]

@@ChildishGambeaner I interpreted that as them being interrupted saying "children" since the next part is being hung up on.

[@ChildishGambeaner]

@@Richard_Nickerson Now that you mention it that could be the case lol

[@attakrus]

“And end this Spider-Man 2 scene with a woman being dragged into the dark.”😂

[@thetruephoenixful]

So you're telling me the director of evil dead directed this movie?

[@rachelkaminski4786]

Heck yeah! This scene was amazing to me because it has his fingerprints all over it. I loved it so much because it had the same feel as all both evil dead’s and army of darkness. It’s a shame that Raimi didn’t get a chance to make a Carnage movie. I think he would have done it justice.

[@Lunarl4ndr]

He directed all 3 of the Toby Spidermen. Uncle Ben's car was the Oldsmobile Delta 88 featured in all of his movies.

[@grampa-cucaracha]

This reminds me of a paper I had to write in college about moonlight sonata. Turns out it's such a classical jam because it establishes a pattern, deviates, then returns. and it did that 3 times in an overarching pattern that established, deviated, and returned. The sonata was within a longer sonata! The entire theme within a scene makes me wonder whether there are any stories that do that with multiple scenes instead of just one "iconic" one.

[@BrandonNinja]

One of the best villain introductions.

[@cashthecurator666]

This scene scared the shit out of me when I was a wee lad.

[@TheTideKing004]

I think the arms responded to the fact that the doctors were going to chop them off. They are linked with otto's mind and probably share his survival instincts promoting them to act in a way that would keep them and otto safe. They also have some degree of autonomy since that was the whole reason for the inhibitor chip. Those thing combined lead to their rampage and then they share otto's grief when he awakens to the horror before him because they share a mental connection.

[@isaiahmarshall2704]

I'm working on my second novel now, and I'm coming up on a really pivotal scene in the book. SavageBooks, you could not have posted this at a better time🙌🏽🙌🏽🙌🏽

[@thetasteoflimes]

Savage Books and Spiderman 2. OH BOY YEAH.

[@ChildishGambeaner]

Oh boy yeah, what?

[@ChildishGambeaner]

@@abductodudeDT797 Thanks man lol but I know. I was quoting what MJ responded with

[@Protocol36]

I have been looking forward to this!

[@Rex10111]

this is the scene where Raimi puts his arm around your shoulder and asks you, "say, you DO remember I got my start with zombie movies, right?"

[@zacksmith5550]

I've got a question, why is J. Johna Jamenson laugh and peters dance so unforgettable?

[@clichedtopic4363]

the scene traumatized me when I was a kid, still freaks me out now.

[@LaneMaxfield]

This ties brilliantly into your video about narratives of corruption (which is one of my favorite writing analysis videos of all time, I swear I'm not just buttering you up, I was having a new lightbulb moment every minute and it was insane). Doc Ock pursues a goal. Doc Ock experiences personal harm in pursuit of his goal. Doc Ock chooses to continue to pursue goal anyway, and becomes corrupted. The unique beauty of this film is in the symbiotic relationship between him and the AIs in his arms, and the role that plays in his corruption. They tell him to build another reactor, but he programmed them. They infiltrate his mind, but they also are influenced by his desires. So is it him deciding? Or the arms taking over? 50/50? 60/40? It gives him room for a post-corruption redemption, but even his redemption is not so simple. It's especially beautiful because we struggle to understand this in our own lives. Is it my uncle acting this way, or his alcoholism? Is it my dad or his traumatic background? My kid or her depression? If my boss tells me to do something I disagree with and I might get fired if I disobey, how much can I dissociate my core identity from what I decide to do? How much can we really separate our selves from our bodies, our history, and our circumstances? But you know, genre fiction is all just dumb escapist entertainment. Nothing to do with real life at all.

[@Shoxic666]

One of the bets parts of the scene is how the doctors fight back with everything they've got, they use blades and saws, cling to objects and thrash around instead of just standing there waiting to be slaughtered, and it isn't even a fair fight. It shows us how truly dangerous the arms are.

[@OptimusPhillip]

I always interpreted the close up of Otto's face meaning the opposite: showing that he's still unconscious, and not actually doing anything.

[@custos3249]

Definitely iconic and memorable. Which is why I needed the clip to remind me what you were talking about.

[@chrisbrandstedter4598]

Idk why but these videos are just so calming

[@ritzer5502]

You and Browntable posted videos about the same thing with the same thumbnail 30 mins apart from each other... what’s up with that?

[@OptimusPhillip]

Plus... it's just so tonally dissonant that it's just completely unforgettable. Trust me, seven-year-old me tried. It's unforgettable.

[@MyJeffafa]

I absolutely love.your videos and how you break down everything but now.you have piqued my interest in future breakdowns of other scenes you found iconic!

[@argo5625]

I think when he finally takes control of the arms is the best scene.

[@Jingles6466]

It's weird how this came out at the same time as the One Horrifying Scene collab all the other youtubers did.

[@aetherspiralknight]

7:13 new subscriber here, working on my first fanfic, and yea, I was applying all your words to writing :D

[@Ghost_Toast5000]

Ironically, this is the only scene I DON'T remember

[@kasin1000]

No kidding, but when I was a kid this whole sequence scared me shitless and I would just close my eyes and just hear the screams. I think I have still some minor PTSD ever since.

[@bitzibaerlie]

I have never seen the scene at 3:25 before, I do not even know the name of the movie. But the dialogue alone is so iconic that I could speak it along. Amazing how these things work sometimes.

[@gary-fl7hm]

That's the street fighter movie 🤣

[@ChatookaMusic]

Ya know now that I'm an adult and know this was the same director as evil dead this scene makes so much more sense lmao

[@ignitetheinferno1858]

I always felt this scene was inspired/lifted from the Area 51 alien operating room scene in _Independence Day._

[@Blaktimus]

If possible like at all you should cover any manga or anime that would be freaking amazing i've always wondered how an editor would look at how some of the story elements mesh or don't mesh together in some of my favorite series'

[@chibiktsn3]

So much cool info here that I never knew! Love the trivia and analysis. 👍🏻

[@RandomJot]

Not directly related to this scene but another cool detail in Spidey 2 regarding the Arms' relationship to Otto: At one point Otto says "these things belong at the bottom of the ocean. along with me." When talking about destroying the Arms, the Arms have no reaction; they only react negatively after he says "along with me"

[@hunterlurvey698]

What do you think this implies about the arms? If they react to the notion of him killing himself, but not themselves, does this imply that they are simply simple AI that are focused on his survival? I remember reading somthing that described the arms as animalistic, yet they seem more focused on docs well being then their own

[@alltheorynopractice5467]

I love how it's shot like an Evil Dead rampage. 'cause, you know...Raimi

[@Steelrat1994]

Idk, I haven't seen that movie for more than 10 years and I didn't remember this scene at all. But I did remember the scene you brushed off - spiderman stopping the train. Maybe I'm just a glutton for spectactle, but even after watching your video I can't agree that the scene in the surgery is the greatest and most iconic in this film. The one where Otto starts the reactor for the first time and his wife dies as a result of that is also more important for me.

[@dualberetta2755]

Shit, i never noticed the rising heart beats before. Make me really think if doc ock really conscious or not

[@DamnQuilty]

Fantastic video. I love that scene.

[@jessegoonerage3999]

Because of memes I can no longer watch any scene in this movie without bursting into laughter.

[@poposao1]

Those tentacles alone could be the entire narrative for a horror movie...truly METAL

[@dragonus85]

i do so love those arms

[@daftbanna7202]

Ohhhhh my gawwwd please do a video on into the spider verse. It's like my favorutie movie

[@CitizenZero1]

I think one of the few weaknesses of this movie is the ending, which is a bit of a deus ex machina. Yay, I used the phrase!

[@angelindenile]

I was wondering when you'd say the film's theme in the parodied words of everyone's favorite uncle Ben-- "With infinite power comes infinite responsibility." Taking those words, we could apply them not only here, but in a few places in the mcu too. Most notably, the blip reversal, and the end of endgame. Edit: thinking further, it feels like that's what Avatar TLA could be about too... Further things to think about.

[@mattgilbert7347]

Do not mess with shop class. They make stuff. They fix stuff. Sharp objects are involved. Do not mess with shop class.

[@abbie_joan]

everytime I see this scene all I can think is "wtf just happened"

[@OneAndOnlyYesMan]

It’s “Spider-Man”, don’t forget the hyphen.

[@KajianTemp]

Hoffman! Trademark the hyphen. I want a quarter every time someone says it!

[@marshalmathers5669]

Savage Books: How to Write! Also Savage Books: I don't know how to spell Spider-Man

[@astonbean]

Hyper-intelligent cyborg arms my beloved

[@pastaperspective3345]

to this day I consider spiderman 2 as the best superhero movie. With spiderverse a close second

[@rasheedfraser5680]

Train scene is definitely more iconic

[@dissonanceparadiddle]

Agreed I think he just liked this scene a lot and went on a roll, grasped at a few straws, Which is fine. But honestly....I forgot this scene was even in this movie. I'll never forget the train scene

[@brianlowe904]

Both scenes are rather iconic. I think most “normal” people remember the train scene cause it feels “superhero” but people also remember this one cause of how well done it is but also how horrific it was. The grasping at straws comments is really weird to me. Every story choice, tone, scene, character arc has something to breakdown about it into common story telling conventions is what savage does. There’s a lot to actually talk about if you’re skilled enough to break it down

[@MrJamb0ree]

100% agree

[@rasheedfraser5680]

@@dissonanceparadiddle yeah its become a mainstay for the character in all the movies since 😂🤘🏼

[@dissonanceparadiddle]

@@brianlowe904 I guess I just mean it felt like he was trying so hard to prove how this was the defining scene of the movie. Ok I guess a movie can have more than one iconic scene. And I guess I'm not taking into account that what is and isn't iconic is subjective and on an individual basis. It was a great video, and I definitely got a lot of cool things out of it

[@Josh-ys4br]

@Savage Books first of all love your videos and just subscribed! From Spiderman to GOT (S1-S6 RIP) and Bojack to Avatar you breakdown all my favorites! I was wondering if you've ever watched / have an opinion on Attack on Titan? Frankly, GOT S8 completely broke my faith in a writer's ability to create a satisfying end to stories of my favorite genre: epics (Avatar being the only complete epic I've enjoyed start to finish). Though Attack on Titan is still a few chapters from its completion, Isayama (its writer) has made me hopeful and excited again. In my humble non-editor opinion, Isayama has created some of the best, if not the best, storytelling, character development and subversion (that actually makes sense in the context of the story *cough* *cough* GOT). If you've seen/read it I would absolutely love to hear your thoughts about the writing and overall story (positive or negative). On the other hand if you haven't, I can't recommend a current show more than Attack on Titan. Though very different stories, I fell in love with it for the same reasons I originally fell in love with GOT: a clear vision for the entire story from episode 1 that makes you ask questions, promises you answers, and constantly delivers those answers in ways that surprise in the moment but were clearly foreshadowed upon a 2nd viewing. I've been watching a lot of your videos and I (a) really enjoy your perspectives on some of my favorite stories and (b) just think great stories are rare and deserve to be shared. Don't necessarily expect to see a reply or anything but if you read this thank you for all your videos and I look forward to many more!

[@stb55555]

Oh you gotta breakdown Street Fighter.

[@ronterry1283]

Hey man. I know you spend alot of time on your video and you give them a great deal of attention. I was wondering if you could do a breakdown/analysis of the movie A Marriage Story and if you are able...a very extensive breakdown. Thanks man. Keep up the interesting content.

[@edgartaylor7421]

You need to do a video on the birth of sandman

[@maximevigneron560]

👏 very nice video, good job

[@andresrodriguez8289]

i even dont remember that scene... lol

[@Necroxion]

So this is the Raimi visual flair Organized Chaos talks about

[@godsbane6664]

Im sorry, but all I see in Bison is Gomez Adams and Im pretty sure Gomez could've banged up quite a few street fighter characters.

[@TheCowHerder1]

I just bought Story by mckee!

[@antonblascak581]

great vid

[@BussyConnoisseur]

Oh, hi Mark... Iconic

[@timothygreeley9673]

Sam Raimi snuck a Sam Raimi scene into a cape movie

[@titojdavis8374]

Oh great, more scenes of mine to overthink

[@barry1369]

Has a very alien vibe to it

[@felipenunes5240]

I didn't remember the hospital horror scene

[@MrEdium]

A Little Bit of Horror Gave Weight to Dr. Octopus.

[@abhinavkapruwan5797]

Thats what happens when u hire Evil Dead's director/writer Waiting for Doctor Strange 2!😱🔥

[@LUIShtRUIZht]

I was gonna say, that scene was another movie inside a children's movie. 2;00

[@hblaub]

Awesome!

[@firewarrior5828]

When a super hero movie has a scene that's 10 times better than full 2 hour horror movies produced today.

[@JvdBos]

I'm inclined to disagree on this being the best Spider-Man movie - I'm more for Spider-Man: Homecoming - but I really do like your analysis and your talking here and in your other vids about movie making and story telling :-)

[@doczodzilla]

A minute and a half in and I realize I read the title of this video as Ironic

[@attakrus]

9:17 When my crush that I thought would never ask me out asked me out.

[@MAC_HAMMER]

It was all thanks to Sam Raimi, the father of the Evil Dead

[@613aristocrat]

The most iconic scene of Detroit: Become Human is still the Kara demo/trailer.

[@devonwall4083]

Ever seen the Spectacular Spider-Man cartoon?

[@DriftyPlus]

Wait hold on... didn't Browntable post this at the same time..

[@fullmetaltheorist]

This movies was the shyte when I was a kid.

[@DaveMan1K]

0:38 Yeah, back then. With how far comic book movies have come, this one is far from the best; both in terms of faithfulness to the story it's based on, and as a movie in general.

[@nicholasvalente2992]

It seems to me that the train scene is more iconic by the same logic. The runaway train symbolizes out-of-control desires driven to destructive, single-minded purposes. The train is like Otto's arms in this regard, representing lower nature as unconscious mechanical drives. Peter, however, sacrifices his desires when he chooses to do what is responsible. The change in his identity is dramatized as his "death" and resurrection.

[@Ignasimp]

Peter in that scene sacrificies his identity and, potentially, his life in orther to fullfill his responsability. The people in the train out of respect for him promise him to keep his secret identity as a secret.

[@nicholasvalente2992]

@@Ignasimp Good points