Saved by Works? (w/ The Pactum) | Theocast

[@shawnharrison4994]

"Thank you" cannot be said enough. This is an episode to save and rewatch.

[@jonahdav9589]

Thankful for Jesus. amen to the active obedience of Christ!

[@WilliamWatsonBirch]

"Once you see it, you cannot unsee it." This! Once I learned this truth I cannot turn back.

[@greganderson5981]

Well, as usual. When you guy's connect you absolutely hit it out of the park!

[@jeffwatt4684]

To get the goods to market you need both a horse and cart. The journey is alot easier if you put the horse before the cart, not the cart before the horse. Great discussion guys !

[@msolsen]

It seems like legalists and pietists actually make the mistake of minimizing the law, though it appears on the surface that they are elevating the law to utmost importance. They bring it down to an achievable level, which distorts the work of Christ, who kept every jot and tiddle of the law perfectly. You just want to scream out at these people "the law is so much greater than you think! You sin so much more than you know!"

[@steveareeno65]

Thesis 26 from Luther's Heidelberg disputation: The law says "do this," and it is never done. Grace says, "believe in this," and everything is already done.

[@cjfoster4179]

Sanctification is a benefit we receive in Christ as well.

[@savedwretch8711]

Yes, and this is one of the truths that is so hard to understand for most.

[@sdw1103]

Part of the nothing that can separate me is me .

[@blank-964]

This is good thanks

[@KeithGreenshields]

If we are born again with a new spirit sealed up in corrupt by the finished works of Christ uet our flesh being corrupt and sins. Then who sins? Paul said it was his flesh and therefore was not him who sins because if he did what he didn't want to do, it is no longer him but sin in him. So we never sin and the flesh does. Making That distinction frees us and draws us more to God and love. Thus it makes sense that there is no more guilt or condemnation for those who are in Christ. I can't sin because my spirit is me and protected from corruption, my flesh is not me and it sins and always will. Knowing this truth is another step to freedom.

[@MrJayb76]

If no one is righteous and perfect then why does Jesus commands us to be perfect as our Father in heaven is perfect?

[@follow_the_way]

Eternal life in Christ is given freely by God to all and obtained through our obedience to His commands. All who want eternal life in Christ just have to obey Him.

[@savedwretch8711]

No, Maybe you're not understanding because that's what they are preaching against

[@follow_the_way]

@@savedwretch8711 So you disagree with the Bible when it tells us that whoever says they know Christ but do not keep His commandments is a liar?

[@doc9538]

Do you love God perfectly totally and unconditionally? Love others the same? He is Faithful, His love endures for ever. It is his work that matters to me who is wretched.

[@sheliabryant3997]

"CHRIST CRUCIFIED" has made the Law honorable. 🌺 (cf ISA. 42:21). [Jesus satisfied/fulfilled The Law of Moses by being crucified UNDER THAT LAW according to and AS REQUIRED BY that Law.]

[@savedwretch8711]

Yes, he did it because we can't.

[@MrJayb76]

Us catholics will be waiting for an apology? 😊

[@katiecross8127]

Romans 3: 21¶But now apart from the Law the righteousness of God has been manifested, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets, 22even the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all those who believe; for there is no distinction

[@brucedavenport7016]

I haven't heard (15 minutes in) how to "receive Gods righteousness". How do you know that you have in fact received Gods righteousness. How do you know that you are living up to the standard that's expected by God, to those he gives his righteousness to?

[@THEOCAST]

By faith in the gospel. We walk by faith

[@brucedavenport7016]

@@THEOCAST I've read that, but what about the Scriptures referring to "many are called, few are chosen" or "I would rather you were hot or cold..." or "I never knew you". It seems they are/were walking by faith. Yet it seems, to me, that these people will not be saved. It seems that just because I believe I am walking in faith that it may not be to his standard. Surely there is a line in the sand somewhere?

[@katiecross8127]

The whole point is you can't live up to the standard or God's law. Christ alone lived up to God's standard. That's why He alone is savior. And why its by grace through faith. You have to be morally and ethically perfect from the moment your born til the moment you die to get into heaven. That's how holy God is. Can you do that? No. Only Christ could. That's why its faith and not works. Sorry if I was unclear. I'm struggled to understand the gospel for years and am coming out of legalism. Living your life looking at your obedience, performance, works will make you despair or prideful. Its a miserable existence. Living by faith in the passive and active obedience of Christ alone is so much better. Its simply relying on the work that He did alone. Come unto me all you who are weary and heavy laden and I will give you rest. I hope this helps. If it didn't I apologize!

[@thomasalbinholmes2538]

@@katiecross8127 there is a third option. We don't have to choose between legalism and the active obedience of Christ. Legalism leads to despair or pride. But this doctrine Theocast is teaching is not the answer either. It tends to lead to casual faith. That is generally the fruit of the Protestant reformation. But the apostle Paul was on a different wavelength. He was tapped in to something that most Christians today, whether Catholic or reformed, are not tapped into, which is why he and the other early disciples experienced a much more powerful transformation than most of us do today.

[@brucedavenport7016]

@@katiecross8127 It actually doesn't help at all. If my end game is to be saved and I can see clearly in the Scriptures that only a few are, then what/where is my measuring stick to assure me I am on the right side of the ledger? The Bible shows that there are multiple people that, though convinced they are right with God, actually are not. The verse "many are called, few are chosen" comes to mind. I feel called, how do I ensure I am chosen?

[@aussierob7177]

Christ tells us in Scripture, that we have to do certain things before anything else to achieve salvation

[@gabrielpastor317]

Not only he told us to do certain things to achieve salvation, he taught that one must fulfill the whole law. when one realizes it is impossible in their will alone, they can come and rest in Christ, who fulfilled the whole law for us, for our salvation.

[@rickfisk]

Jesus: The kingdom of God is like those hired to work in a vineyard, rewarded for their labor. Protestants: Tell that Jesus guy he has no idea what the kingdom of God is like! Not of works!

[@KenPeters-sr1125]

According to Matthew 12:35-37, no questions will be asked on judgment day. You will be judged by the content of your account. Your account will be either all good or all evil, but a third option is that it is empty. You will not be justified by the absence of sin but the presence of righteousness. In general, Evangelicals overlook the fact that there is more than one law: the law of sin and death, and the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus. The law of sin and death is summarized by the Great Commandment, to be done with all your heart, soul, mind, and strength - everything but the Spirit. The law of the Spirit of life is the New Commandment - love one another as I have loved you. Under this law, you deny your heart, soul, mind, and strength and allow the Spirit access to your resources to fulfill the righteousness of the law in you. The law of sin and death is works of the flesh - no one is saved by the works of the flesh. The law of the Spirit of life is works of the Spirit of Christ, the work of Christ, the fruit of the Spirit. Those who bear no fruit will be cut off and thrown into the fire. The thief on the cross, in his final words, bore fruit. Having received the revelation that Jesus was the Son of God, he announced to everyone what had been revealed to him. Since no one can say that Jesus is Lord except by the Spirit, his pronouncement was by the Spirit, and he was saved. Had he kept it to himself, he would have been fruitless, he would have been cut off. Abraham was justified by works when he offered his son on the altar. This work did not comply with the law of sin and death, but was in direct compliance with the law of the Spirit of life. As the Father loved me, I love you; as I have loved you, love one another. The Father offered his Son on thee altar, Abraham was to do likewise. When Paul said Abraham was justified apart from works of the law, he was referring to the law of sin and death. When James said Abraham was justified by works of the law, he was referring to the law of the Spirit of life. I agree that we are saved by the works of Christ, but I would add that they are the works of Christ in you, the hope of glory.

[@reynaldoperez7285]

God has always been in the business of salvation. All that ever lived and were saved. were saved by faith, BY HIS GRACE. From, Adam to the last man that would ever believe. No man has ever accomplished the perfection and sinlessness of the LORD JESUS CHRIST. WE HAVE ALL FALLEN SHORT OF THE GLORY OF GOD. WE ARE LIVING IN THE DAY OF SALVATION, DO NOT HARDEN YOUR HEART. TODAY IS YOUR OPPORTUNITY TO RECEIVE THE FREE GIFT OF ETERNAL LIFE ACCORDING TO THE SCRIPTURES. MY FRIEND, IF YOU ARE A GOOD PERSON, YOU ARE NOT GOOD ENOUGH. IF YOU ARE A RELIGIOUS PERSON, YOU ARE NOT RELIGIOUS ENOUGH. IF YOU ARE A FAITHFUL PERSON, YOU ARE NOT FAITHFUL ENOUGH. IF YOU ARE A DEDICATED PERSON, YOU ARE NOT DEDICATED ENOUGH. IF YOU ARE A COMMITTED PERSON, YOU ARE NOT COMMITTED ENOUGH. IF YOU STOP SINNING, YOU HAVEN'T STOP SINNING ENOUGH. IF YOU ARE RIGHTEOUS MAN, YOU ARE NOT RIGHTEOUS ENOUGH. DO I HAVE TO CONTINUE? YOU ALSO HAVE FALLEN SHORT, AND ARE IN NEED OF A SAVIOR. THE JEWS THAT WERE BLIND CRUCIFIED HIM, THE JEWS THAT COULD SEE WORSHIP HIM, EVERY RELIGION ON EARTH HAS SOMETHING TO DO WITH HIM RATHER THEY ACCEPT HIM OR REJECT HIM. JESUS HIMSELF, ASKED THE MOST IMPORTANT QUESTION EVER. WHOM DO YOU SAY THAT I AM? HE DID ALL THE THINGS THAT ONLY GOD CAN DO, AND HE DID THEM IN THE FLESH. HE SAID IF YOU DON'T BELIEVE ME BELIEVE THE WORKS THAT I DO. I BELIEVE IN JESUS THE SON OF GOD, WHO IS GOD HIMSELF IN THE FLESH. THE TRIUNE GOD OF ISREAL, (THE TRINITY) THE GOD OF ABRAHAM ISSAC AND JACOB. THERE IS NO OTHER WAY, WITHOUT THE RESURRECTION OF THE LORD JESUS CHRIST THERE IS NO HOPE OF BEING RESURRECTED. THERE IS NO HOPE OF ANY RESURRECTION, APART FROM JESUS. King James Bible Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: MY FRIEND THIS IS THE REQUIREMENT FOR ETERNAL LIFE. 29The jailer called for lights, rushed in and fell trembling before Paul and Silas. 30He then brought them out and asked, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?” 31(They replied, “(BELIEVE) IN THE LORD JESUS, AND YOU WILL BE SAVED) you and your household.” 32Then they spoke the word of the Lord to him and to all the others in his house. 33At that hour of the night the jailer took them and washed their wounds; then immediately he and all his household were baptized. 34The jailer brought them into his house and set a meal before them; HE WAS FILLED WITH JOY BECAUSE HE HAD COME TO( BELIEVE ) IN GOD -he and his whole household. WOW, THE DISCIPLES PREACHED JESUS, AND THEY CAME TO BELIEVE IN GOD. IN JOHN 6 IT SAYS. 28Then they asked him, “What must we do to be doing the works of God ” 29JESUS ANSWERED, “THE WORK OF GOD IS THIS: TO BELIEVE IN THE ONE HE HAS SENT.” JESUS IS THE ONE GOD HAS SENT. JESUS IS THE SAVIOR, THE MESSIAH, THAT THE JEWS WAITED FOR BUT DIDN'T RECOGNIZE HIM WHEN HE CAME. New King James Version and level you, and your children within you, to the ground; and they will not leave in you one stone upon another, BECAUSE YOU DID NOT (KNOW) THE TIME OF YOUR VISITATION.” CONSEQUENCES FOR NOT RECOGNIZING JESUS CHRIST. King James Bible He came unto his own, and his own received him not. AT THIS MOMENT THE JEWS AND MUSLIMS ARE WORKING ON THEIR OWN RIGHTEOUSNESS WHICH IS NOT GOOD ENOUGH, BECAUSE TRUE RIGHTEOUSNESS COMES BY FAITH. BELIEVE IN THE LORD JESUS AND YOU WILL BE SAVED. New International Version Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life. THE BIBLE CLEARLY SAYS. ( THAT IF RIGHTEOUSNESS CAME BY THE LAW GOD WOULD HAVE GAVE US A LAW WHEREBY WE COULD GET SAVED BY. ) New International Version galatians 3;21 Is the law, therefore, opposed to the promises of God? Absolutely not! (FOR IF A LAW HAD BEEN GIVEN THAT COULD IMPART LIFE, THEN RIGHTEOUSNESS WOULD CERTAINLY HAVE COME BY THE LAW. This verse clearly say that God never gave us a law, that could save us if we keep it, and that there is no law that was given for us to be saved by. So if we are not saved by the law then how are we saved? Answer by grace through faith in Jesus. Everyone trying to be good enough to be saved is delusional, Jesus is the only way to receive salvation. After you have believe the gospel and are saved, then you can live as godly as you want but not to get saved, but because you are saved. New International Version I do not set aside the grace of God, (FOR IF RIGHTEOUSNESS COULD BE GAINED THROUGH THE LAW, ) CHRIST DIED FOR NOTHING!” WELL YOU ONLY HAVE ONE CHOICE. BELIEVE, IN JESUS CHRIST, BELIEVE IN THE DEATH BURRIAL AND RESURRECTION, AND BE SAVED. WHEN YOU ARE SAVED, GOD EQUIPS YOU TO LIVE OUT A GODLY LIFE. YOU WILL BEAR FRIUT. BUT BE ⚠️ WARNED. JUDE 1:4 New Living Translation I say this because some ungodly people have wormed their way into your churches, saying that God’s marvelous grace allows us to live immoral lives. The condemnation of such people was recorded long ago, for they have denied our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ. If you say that a man can lose salvation, you are saying salvation does not belong to the LORD.

[@pongpango7766]

I feel so sad hearing this. I though that Christ is the end of the law and we are no longer under the law?! And we are sinner and saint at the same time? Like we have two natures?! I thought the OLD has GONE, the NEW has COME. Maybe I'm just confused about the discussion. I'll watch this again later. Hope I'm wrong.

[@truthnow902]

Yes definitely your kids are already in the family no matter what but that's not what Jesus is talking about here we already know we're in the family of Jesus we were made in God's image but you still need to keep in mind road to Heaven is Broad few will find it what did I tell you it doesn't mean we're going to make it because we're in the family it means we're going to make it by having faith in Jesus Christ that he died for our sins and that we fear the lord so we know without question we will obey the Lord specifically like the Bible verses you keep giving keeps on saying and you guys are not picking up on this which I'm not sure why so what do you do when your kids do not obey you and they break all the rules in your house all the time you just tell them oh it's okay don't worry about it and you let them get away with it no matter what they are in the family but you let them get away with breaking the rules you need to ask yourself that Jesus speaks everywhere about obedience he is very firm on obedience but everybody keeps weeping it underneath the rug oh just do the best you can that's all that matters Jesus doesn't say this very very very very very very very very very clear go sin no more he tells us not to do it many many times walk-in righteousness just like he did how can we walk with our Lord and savior play he tells us to if we are in bondage to sin you can't do it again not rocket science he says to be bound in righteousness not in sin wet sweeping obedience in fear underneath the rug we need to obey get a hold of me I have verses in chapters that will back up this truth

[@davidelgeti517]

Rom. 8:3-5 For God has done what the law, weakened by the flesh, could not do. By sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and for sin, he condemned sin in the flesh, in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit set their minds on the things of the Spirit. You see that we walk in a new way not according to the flesh but according to the Spirit! Much of the talk of working for our salvation is a misunderstanding of the regeneration of the saint’s, the new man. We don’t work or walk solely in the flesh but we walk in the Spirit. We are made new and do things in a new way with new desires and in the Spirits power. This life should look different we are not the same as unbelievers we have freedom and power to be Holy as we are command or if it makes you feel better called to be Holy as Christ is Holy. We do answer the call and enablement to Holy lives, don’t we? We are never perfected in this life but the new life is a reality that begins at conversion.

[@Wolttizm]

I'm quite comfortable with the idea that Jesus fulfilled the law (for us). But I'm pondering the idea that he kept the law, and thus earned salvation for us by that. If he kept the law, it certainly has some caveats. When he allowed his disciples to harvest grain on the Sabbath, we could make the case that he was in keeping with the spirit of the law, as was David in the tabernacle. But there is a violation of law approved by and defended by Jesus. When Paul was standing approvingly and assisting in the assassination of Stephen, he was by his own words blameless according to the law, but we wouldn't say he was in any sense fulfilling the law. So, being a very poor theologian, this is going to force me to go through scripture and determine if Jesus kept the law in the sense of obeying every particle of it, or fulfilled in the sense of always doing his Father's will, whether it appeared like law keeping or not. Romans 5.19 says: "For as by the one man’s disobedience the many were made sinners, so by the one man’s obedience the many will be made righteous." So if the disobedience of Adam is to eat of the tree that gives knowledge of good and evil (law), then the obedience of Jesus is to not eat of said tree? Thanks for making me 'do the work.'

[@KeithGreenshields]

Follow Jesus means his teachings not what he did, bug difference, hear the words of the Lord as the Father said, this is my beloved sin, listen to him= follow in your hearing. I can't see how follow meant law when his teachings point out that we can't.

[@imperialman1000]

I appreciated this podcast and the discussion here but I wish that the three presenters, especially Pat, would not laugh so mockingly at others who hold different views. In theology, different views are held by solid, bible believing Christians who all love Christ and we need to treat each other with respect. By all means disagree and state what you believe but do it lovingly and with respect for others who hold different views.

[@thomasalbinholmes2538]

I hear quite a few assertions being made here without any explicit passages that really teach those things. Can anyone show me a passage that explicitly teaches the active obedience of Christ, or the imputed righteousness of Christ? I am not currently aware of any.

[@katiecross8127]

I'm not sure if this is what you mean. Sorry if its not. Roman 3 21¶But now apart from the Law the righteousness of God has been manifested, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets, 22even the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all those who believe; for there is no distinction

[@thomasalbinholmes2538]

@@katiecross8127 hello and thanks for posting that. But I would ask you to please read that very carefully. Please notice the ambiguity of those words. Evangelicals project a lot of theology onto these words and assume that when Paul talks about the righteousness of God here, he means the imputed righteousness of Christ. But the words could be understood in a number of ways. The righteousness of God could simply mean the justification of God (righteousness and justification are the same word). It's so flexible. And what does Paul mean by "faith"? Evangelicals tend to assume he means "trusting only in what Jesus did and not what I do." But there is just no reason to think that's what Paul means. He more likely means something like the sort of faith Abraham had - a willingness to just do whatever God says because God is everything to him. That's how we need to respond to Jesus to be justified. We need to become obedient to him from the heart in response to what he's done for us. We need to be ready to take up our own cross going forward in order to get right with God. Anyway, this doctrine of Christ's imputed righteousness just isn't explicit here. And all of the other proof texts for it are the same. They don't actually come out and say it clearly. But evangelicals project it onto the text after having already been indoctrinated with it. Something else to consider is that this doctrine (imputed righteousness of Christ) is not something that was taught by the early church. It comes out of 16th century Europe, not out of 1st century Israel. It's a teaching of Luther and Calvin, not a teaching of Paul. Looking forward to your thoughts. God bless you.

[@THEOCAST]

Get the book!

[@thomasalbinholmes2538]

@@THEOCAST Did you delete my response to the lady who answered me? Or did KZbin just make it disappear? I know it does that sometimes...

[@gabrielpastor317]

Philippians 3:9

[@Cheryl-te1zs]

Does not working a job meàn you don't obey Jesus commands?

[@truthnow902]

Okay what you were saying here doesn't make sense it doesn't work you are saying we want to do what's right so I'm wondering what the way you guys are thinking why would you want to do what's right you're saying you don't have to be obedient is there doesn't have to be any fear of the Lord does the difference between wanting and doing has a Christian if you know as a human because we carry the sin of Adam and Eve if you know you are saved by faith by just believing give me one good reason why you're going to want to be good you're guaranteed to fail without fear and Obedience of the Lord because in your mind you know you can do whatever you want and you know you can get away with it and this is the same way of thinking that parents are doing today what do you think in most homes not all the kids run the parents the devil is doing the same deception here in the Bible no works no obedience no fear just believe in your saved the pieces of the puzzle together it's not rocket science do you guys need to study the Bible more this is not what it is saying number one is faith then there's the fear of the Lord then once you have the fear you will obey the Lord you guys are getting rid of the fear in the obedience Andrew are leaving it up to our flesh not to sin see how stupid that sounds if a child does not fear the parents will they listen really really think about this remember you spare the rod you spare the child same way with us we need to stop the sin or we will be disciplined it's not complicated get back to me and I will share verses 100 % proof truth will set you free

[@gabrielpastor317]

Oh dear I can see understand exactly your point, I used to think just as you do and I understand. In romans it is said that it is the grace of God that produces ones repentance. Obedience by fear is just an obedience out of trying to avoid punishment, not out of love. It is different the one who avoids killing someone else merely out of the fear of going to jail that the one who decides not killing because he forgives. In 1 John we are told that perfect love cast out fear. So maybe we feel that if it is not by our obedience we can do what we want, but once you understand God completed our salvation through Jesus sacrifice out of love for us sinners, will it not start changing ones heart to willfully love out of the love he received from God? The Bible says "If you love me, you will obey my commandments" It does not say "If you fear me". Lay down you guard in the presence of the God who is love my dear friend, he wants to change your heart by love, not only to obligate it to obey out of fear.

[@truthnow902]

You guys are trying to go by your own understanding and again we are warned not to do this it's not complicated if we have faith and we believe we will do these works we will obey the Lord we will do these things that he wants us to do but we can only do all these things if we have faith and believe in our Lord and we are obedient to him is that all these other things will come after it's like a big puzzle put together the all work together you guys are trying to separate them and then you don't understand how they work the all come together as one Jesus the Holy Spirit God the R3 but they are all one you're making too much division in the Bible because of that you don't understand put these all together you will see the difference then you will see the change in your heart then obedience to the Lord will come when he changes our hearts have a good one

[@johnfakes1298]

Brother this reads like you had a conniption while typing

[@jimfisher5828]

I've listened to a few of your podcasts and I must say, if there are any Matt 7:21 types sitting in your congregation they will receive no help from your preaching.

[@edmuenster2436]

You do know who the audience in that context is right? Law abiding Jews. Jesus was preaching to religious practicing people. Who adhere to the law. Notice how he called people who did ministry in His name workers of unrighteousness. It's more of a shock to self righteous people to be called workers of unrighteousness by God and rejected. They thought their religious devotion to God made them right with God when all their righteousness are like filthy rags before Him. Without Christ your best works fall short of God's perfect holy requirement. You can claim by grace alone through faith alone and still be self deceived in trusting your own righteousness to justify yourself. One can feel assured of their salvation by looking to their works and not relying on Christ alone for justification. The first and greatest commandment to love God you have never kept. Not even once. In order to keep it, it has to be done with perfect faith. Which no one has. The only person that exercised perfect faith was Jesus. Perfect faith produces perfect works. You never had perfect faith. If God requires that of you then you're without hope. He said faith of a mustard seed God will save. Not a perfect faith that produces perfect works. God justifies anyone of varying degrees of faith. Those varying degrees produce varying degrees of fruit. But that fruit can bear more in the beginning and less later. Or less in the beginning and more at the end. If salvation relied on the performance of your faith and works, then you don't have a certain future. That also puts you in control of your justification and not God. If we say works with faith justify... Well good luck. You just made Christianity no different from any other man made religion. False gods always require of men to appease them. Biblical Christianity teaches the total abandonment of self reliance and total trust and reliance on God to save you. You can't get there by your will. God is not unjust to accept your works. He will only accept perfection as is required of a Holy God. If He didn't then you'd have no need for Jesus.

[@follow_the_way]

We are also given commands to obey in order to become saved in our time and to remain saved.

[@follow_the_way]

1 John 2:3-4 3 And by this we know that we have come to know him, if we keep his commandments. 4 Whoever says “I know him” but does not keep his commandments is a liar, and the truth is not in him

[@truthnow902]

Follow Jesus have fun with that Bible is this guy reading Jesus says he didn't come to abolish the law of course we will follow the law that's what you guys are not understanding as long as you keep telling people not to follow Jesus their hearts are not going to change you're not going to follow the law they're not going to follow Jesus they're not going to follow the truth Jesus says take up your cross and follow me deny yourself why is this so complicated we need to follow Christ you need to follow his example Jesus says I am the way the truth and the life do you guys even understand what this means he is the way that means follow him he lived in righteousness we need to live and be bound in righteousness he is the truth do we need to follow him in truth and when we do these things and we only do them because we are facing we believe and our savior Jesus then we will do these things then we will have the life he is the way the truth and the life guys this is not complicated once you let the Holy Spirit work through you and you seek the truth with all your heart with all your soul with all your might you will see this do not go by your own understanding let the flesh go it is weak

[@johndavolta3124]

Dude, you have to learn how to use punctuation. It is almost impossible to understand what you wrote.

[@truthnow902]

@@johndavolta3124 yeah that's because I don't use a computer sometimes I stop and put it in sometimes I don't, but you can definitely still read it.

[@thomasalbinholmes2538]

This is another frustrating discussion. Theological assumptions being projected onto passages that just DO NOT say what you want them to say. Matthew 5 and Luke 10 mean what they say, guys. Jesus could have plainly taught his disciples and the lawyer to trust only in what he would do for them and not to think any of their obedience is necessary for salvation. Instead he said that we need to live a more righteous life than the Pharisees and that we need to love our neighbor as ourselves, including our enemies. If we simply pray for our enemies, we are already exceeding the righteousness of the Pharisees, who had never been taught to do that. God help us all. Jesus meant what he said. Father in heaven help someone to see it. Reject both pietism and reformed theology. Instead, recover that exciting, sobering, scary, amazing message Jesus and the apostles preached. That will help you to avoid both legalism and casual faith.

[@gabrielpastor317]

and become one with him. I no longer count on my own righteousness through obeying the law; rather, I become righteous through faith in Christ. For God’s way of making us right with himself depends on faith. Philippians 3:9

[@Huero87]

Christ oftentimes spoke in hyperbole. Jesus also said in the sermon on the mount that you need to be perfect as your Heavenly Father is perfect. If that was a literal command then there’s really no need for Christ or the gospel. In the passage where Jesus spoke about hating father and mother etc., was he being literal? Probably not, when he taught us to love our enemies.

[@thomasalbinholmes2538]

@@Huero87 when Jesus told us to be perfect, the context was the command to love both friends and enemies, to be like God in that we do good to both friends and enemies, which we can certainly obey and carry out if we really have the Holy Spirit. Jesus saves us in that he gives us the power to break free from captivity to sin and live a new life. When he says to hate father and mother, he does not mean he wants us to harbor hatred for our parents. He means that he needs to come first before them and that we are ready to reject them and divide from them if necessary, or to be rejected by them if necessary, for his sake. He at times speaks in hyperbole, yes. But he is usually using hyperbole in order to teach us something practical, something he literally wants us to do. For example, when he tells us to take the log out of our eye, he does not mean to literally take a big piece of wood out of our eye. But he means to get the sin out of our lives. Paul took Jesus as serious as a heart attack on these things, and so must we. Does this make sense to you?