Saxophone Repair Topic: What Leaks From Not Enough Shellac Looks Like And How To Fix It

Saxophone repairman Matt Stohrer of www.StohrerMusic.com talks about what not enough adhesive behind a pad usually looks like leakwise, how that is common on new horns, and the simple but effective way you can fix it if the pad is still new-ish (spoiler: take out the pad, add some shellac, and reseat it exactly where it was before).
Also check out the Open Source Saxophone Project: www.OpenSourceSaxophoneProject...​
Here is my Patreon: / mattstohrer

[@KevinVanLeer]

Thanks! I recently purchased a Yamaha Custom EX that exhibits this exact type of leak. It's been driving me crazy trying to close it up. I overhauled a YTS-23 and YAS-23 following your instructions and they both play fantastic now! I can't thank you enough for sharing this valuable information.

[@StohrerMusic]

Wow! Thank you so much. I'm glad to help. Good work getting your horns into shape!

[@jacquelamontharenberg]

I have my 2003 Keilwerth SX90R tenor playing almost perfectly. This is a great tip to be aware of. Thank you!

[@jackdolphy8965]

Bullseye!! Spot on explanation of a (common) problem and simple and clear how to fix it. Many Thanks !!

This is SO helpful man, thanks.

[@jameshowe8996]

Thanks!

[@SaxforSale]

Nice example. Love that chicken in the background.

[@walkerforsyth6221]

Rooster.....

[@SaxforSale]

Right you are, Thanks!

[@jimrich4192]

You make look easy & smart. Thank you soooooo much! 😂

[@dominicbarone8114]

Hey, I know this is a bit off topic from the video, but I’ve been watching your videos to really try to learn all I can about saxophone repair. I’ve been trying to really figure out what I want to do with my life, and I’ve been inspired by many repair technicians around me. I was wanting to ask you of any major tips, ideas, and ways you found out(that you’re willing to tell me) that helped you to create a solid career from repairing saxophones. Thanks in advance, and keep up the awesome work!

[@StohrerMusic]

www.stohrermusic.com/2011/05/the-unprofitable-valley-or-why-so-much-stuff-is-mediocre/

[@rustynutz4493]

is a flame heat used on the less expensive price range $1100. saxophones? I woul be afraid of scorched laquer if I were to attempt a pad repair or swap? . I had a leak on the upper side of a lower note cap and all notes played with right hand were out. I carefully held the oposite side up and gave a slight downd pressure to the upper side and it leveled it which cured it. The Tenor Sax is new old stock so I believe it was mishandled. Leak fixed and It plays great now ! I'm a guitarist of 50+ years and just got a sax for fun and learning fast and am loving it! Melody and No chords : ) I am learning a lot about upkeep from great channels like yours, Thank You !

[@1brokebrother684]

Can you do a video describing how to repair a missing felt on the bridge that connects the lower stack to the G Sharp key?

[@francistaylor5097]

Wow! You make it look so easy. My poor Holton 241 is rather leaky as shown in this video. Maybe I'll have a go. Incidentally, do you have Holtons in your shop very often? The octave mech on mine is a perpetual source of bafflement!

[@StohrerMusic]

I love the 232 and the 234/Stratodynes, but I hardly ever see them.

[@Kelekona_808]

Really neat observation. Do you have any theories why the shellac is uneven? Cost, mounting pressure/time, etc.

[@jameshowe8996]

Great instructions. Any way you could get Stephen Howard’s attention re reviews of the two new Selmer tenor saxes, the Signature and Supreme? Or any Chance your could do in depth reviews? James

[@StohrerMusic]

Hey James, I tend to stay away from reviewing modern horns. I haven't seen a signature yet, but I've seen a bunch of Supremes. Feel free to give me a call if you would like to chat about it.

[@rscoville82]

Bravo.

[@jonathanervin778]

Great video! I’ve even seen a lack of shellac from other repair shops before. Sorry if you’ve answered in another video, but would you mind telling what make and model butane torch you use/recommend? I have a very cheap one currently and it’s difficult to get consistent temperatures

[@StohrerMusic]

blazer es-1000. I also use an acetylene/air torch with a 00 tip when I want a softer heat- in this video I use it to melt the shellac.

[@jonathanervin778]

@@StohrerMusic Thank you!

[@a.j.falisi4713]

What were you doing when you heated up the pad slick? Also is that style pad slick necessary? I’ve only got one that is tear drop shaped. Just starting out with all this and absolutely love your videos.

[@StohrerMusic]

it pulls the leather tight and irons out wrinkles and provides me with a tool for manipulating the pad as a monolithic element rather than pushing or pulling on just a section or piece of it. I like using them, I don't know about necessary in general.

[@walkerforsyth6221]

Matt, with these newer horns, when using your butane torch to heat up the key cup, have you ever encountered any issues with the lacquer finish or clear coat finishes? I understand it's probably a thin line of heating up just barely enough to get the shellac to start moving but not causing damage, making experience and skill helpful. I have a new black nickel Cannonball, and it's fraught with similar issues of production anomalies such as this.. it does have a clear coat finish over the nickel plating, and it is very thin and weak and can easily be scraped off with your finger nail.. They even have the same clear coat finish over their gold lacquer horns, and also I'm seeing this on other brand as well..

[@StohrerMusic]

The only modern horns I really ever work on with any regularity are Yamaha, Yanigasawa, Selmer. For those horns, no, no problems.

[@adysaxman77]

That's very interesting to see how you remove the pad without dismantling the saxophones first, just by heating the cup. Would that method work the same, changing an old pad for a new one? Also, do you actually pierce the side of the pad with the vice pin, to enable you to maneuver the pad into position? Great video by the way!

[@StohrerMusic]

Yes, the majority of play condition work is usually done without disassembly to save time/money. Sometimes people even do what they call a repad without disassembly, although I personally disagree with that. Yes, piercing the pad with the pin. A very sharp pain will leave a clean hole, and you can also shrink it by ironing the hole afterwards with the the tip of a heated pad iron. Disassembly enables cleaning, and unless the instrument has been cleaned very recently, that is good to do.

[@Celica202]

How much does this work cost? Just reseating one pad like that.

[@bgclarinet]

Could it be that the hot shellac and heating needed to manipulate the pad pulled the leather tighter? It seems like the “dotted line“ aspect of the leak could be related to the pores in the leather? Just spitballing.

[@garyzimmer8061]

As a repair tech. Of almost 50 years, one thing I never understood is stores that sell raw horns. Just because it's new doesn't mean it's right! It still makes me cringe to think back to the 80's when Selmer was using contact cement to install their pads, and then clamp the living #**# out of them, so by the time they reached the dealer, nothing sealed. With the volume of work we had, we didn't have time to repad new stock. Being retired from the trade for some time, I've heard that tone hole profiles are coming through more consistently. Have you found this to be accurate? I've not had the chance to install the 'roo pads. Is surface /consistency that good? Enjoyed your vid. Bet we could share alot of stories.

[@StohrerMusic]

Thanks! And I’d love to hear from you- I bet I could learn a lot. Selmer pad work does seem to be better with a particular bump accompanying the “bird” series of reference horns, but there wasn’t really anywhere to go but uphill for a while there. Selmer toneholes seems to be a LOT more level. Yamaha seems to be about the same as they were, not bad. In general, I think things are getting better from where they were 20 years ago. But setups are still a huge improvement. The Yamaha above needed most of its pads reseated, two replaced, and a major neck fit as it was leaking so much air from the receiver you could hear it whistling.

[@StohrerMusic]

Btw I called the Selmer pad problems “Selmeritis” when customers would ask what the underlying issue was.

[@efosax]

Apart from shellac what other material can be used to fill.... ...like paper?

[@janjung5651]

Hi Matt, very useful channel! I'm trying to learn how to maintain my own horns. I just changed all the pads on my Yamaha YTS-25 following your shellac instructions. So far so good. However, the F# sidekey has a gap to the front that I cannot correct by adding more shellac to seat the pad a bit higher on the side where it leaks. What do you suggest I can do instead?

[@StohrerMusic]

If it's hitting in the back first, then you might actually need less shellac not more.

[@janjung5651]

@@StohrerMusicOkay, I'll try to remove some of the shellac and remount.

[@janjung5651]

Nope, still a considerable gap. The pad looks evenly mounted all way around inside the cup. The spring is also at max pressure. Could I have bent the arm while warming it up?

[@StohrerMusic]

@@janjung5651 no, heat won't do that. Are you using a thin pad?

[@janjung5651]

@@StohrerMusic No. It's from a set of Soundman tenor pads. The others fit perfectly. I had to do a few adjustments but nothing major. The F# side key also feels like the distance it opens has diminished. It's correctly reattached, there is not a lot of room for making mistakes in the single row mount. Quite strange.

[@ChrisF_1982]

Seems to me is that the lack of shellac made the pad thinner than it was supposed to be, thus causing a leak.

[@bassAsax]

I have seen this more than once on pads on my old Conns (always seems like the RTH versions) where previous owner's tech did not put enough adhesive (or in one case HOT GLUE GUN GLUE).

[@OldAssSax]

With RTH, the pads need to be floated in a desert environment. This is especially the case with silver plated 26M's. Go ahead and send the horn to me here in New Mexico and it will solve all leakage as long as it stays in my possession. Howdy John...

[@bassAsax]

@@OldAssSax nice try! That comes tomorrow!

[@OldAssSax]

@@bassAsax Enjoy it...what a special horn :)

[@bonelessburst2227]

Where did you acquire your shellac?

[@StohrerMusic]

I make my own sticks from flakes that I buy from Ferree's tools. I have a video on how to do it, if you need it.

[@poshomi]

where are you located? i need someone to give my unbalanced cannonball some love

[@treslongwell1332]

what happened during the "couple of minutes of fussing with it?"

[@StohrerMusic]

Heating shellac until pliable, pushing and pulling pad into place aka "floating"

[@eduardozunigas]

How do you remove the stickiness of the pad?

[@StohrerMusic]

In this example I used Yamaha powder paper. Apply it to the pad only, and wipe off the excess. You shouldn’t really be able to see much or any remaining on their visually, but it will stop the stickiness/kissing noise.

[@eduardozunigas]

@@StohrerMusic you wiped off the excess!! That's why I can't see it on the video!! thank you very much!!

[@AutismusPrime69]

hey Matt. Why don't you use silicone pads instead of leather? they would last forever and never have an issue sealing

[@rscoville82]

Life at 1/10,000 inch.