Saxophone Repair Topic: The Clean-Oil-Adjust (COA)

Saxophone repairman Matt Stohrer of www.StohrerMusic.com makes a few errors but plows ahead anyways in this return-to-long-form video about the Clean Oil Adjust, a post-overhaul maintenance regime that spends your dollars differently for an often overall better experience- and sometimes cheaper, too.
Error 1: The horn in this video got overhauled by me about 7 years ago, not 4.
Errors 2-4: explained in the prologue
Relevant videos:
Changing the Oil: • Saxophone Repair Topic...
Natural Key Corks: • Saxophone Repair Tip: ...

[@StohrerMusic]

I have (at least) FOUR mistakes: the horn I used in this video was overhauled by me 7ish years ago, not 4.

[@Joshua-gv1ep]

Are you also using naphtha to clean the pads?

[@HackaweekTV]

No worries Matt. I had to delete a baritone overhaul video yesterday because I repeated the opening scene 5 times!! Not sure how that happened. Since corrected and uploaded. I've learned a lot from your videos and given you a few shout outs. Thanks! Never stop learning. :)

[@saxmanrex]

Dear Matt, thank you so much for these videos. I'm a saxophonist, but I feel very empowered learning how the saxophone actually works at a technical level. I'm addicted to your repair videos.

[@kiz8409]

Thanks for sharing and nice that you are back.

[@chrismills5110]

Welcome back, Matt, good to see you

[@Samuel-ge7im]

Hey Matt good to see you again. I hope all is well.

[@dalekkrell]

Hi Matt, I am 64 yrs old and just taking up the Saxophone. I am an ex Joiner and therefore mechanically minded but I find your videos really helpful in understanding how the Saxophone works and by extension how to learn to play,, Kind Regards Phil

[@danhitchcock124]

Thanks so much for these videos! Very helpful, useful, informative, and cool!!

[@christianilagan5628]

I'll be stealing that tip on pressing down on the felt. That's quite slick😎

[@originalchilehed]

I'm sorry that biotech didn't work out, but also glad to see you back, Matt. Your videos are **always** helpful, useful and informative! Happy New Year.

[@StohrerMusic]

Thanks man! I am glad to be back. I actually wanted to quit by about month 5 but I gave it a full year before tending my resignation, and it was a great experience but just not for me in the end. Feels really great to have had the opportunity to do something different and realize that I was already where I belonged.

[@jessesheehan4051]

Man this video just changed my life thank you. my mark vii thanks you too! holy cow it plays like better than a brand new horn.

[@davephilips3969]

The pointed Q tips mentioned at 11:20 of the video, were found locally (for less $ than gun shops) at Beauty supply shops and at drug stores like Walgreens. Thank you Matt for the videos that are helpful on so many levels.

[@zangsax]

So glad to see you at a bench again. I hope it is what you want. You are certainly s gift to the tech and player world. I am both and you are my benchmark ( no pun intended) for excellent work. Thank you.

[@StohrerMusic]

Thank you! It is indeed what I want. I walked away from my biotech job, which was costly both financially and personally, but I am happy again.

[@MrGuto]

@@StohrerMusic It's awesome to see you back on the bench Matt ! The horns you overhauled for me keep going strong.

[@DomPusey]

Thanks for the really informative video, and for doing it with a dream horn of mine! One day, I’ll find one

[@donkelly36]

Great videos, thx! Seems like this horn really needed an overhaul!

[@StohrerMusic]

It came out playing and feeling great and can probably go another 4-5 years before it needs one. A solid COA should end up that way.

[@tebs2]

Great job! Thanks for sharing

[@XavierJordanMusic]

You’re back!!

[@aaronkarlin3241]

Wow, a wealth of knowledge!

[@davealger5987]

Cheers for the video, just picked up a Jupiter Sax and had problems with the lower register, brought a led light & the problem was with the (i think) G# key, got the key out & gave it a clean with Pledge type cleaner and suddenly the lower register plays, I was pretty sure I could get the key out but did not know what to clean it with, thanks

[@garyzimmer8061]

Matt,... Been a tec for 45yrs., played pro for over 50. Always enjoy your vids. Just acouple of ideas for you, maybe you already have tried. I Hate what passes for 'key oil'. It oxidizes way too fast and gums up mechs. Believe it or not, I use trans. fluid. It has non-corrosive detergents of better quality than regular oils. When quieting noisy mechs or excessive 'bounce' in the keys I use ultra- suede. For pivot lube I use either Selmer tuning slide grease or Conn super slick grease. The super slick also works great on case cover zippers that stick. On average I play about 40 hrs./mo. I rebuilt my Super 20 in '90.,...have never had a mech. prob. and only replaced 2 pads in the last 31 years. Got my horn in '72. Keep up the good work!

[@apistosig4173]

Another interesting and informative presentation. Would love a tutorial on how to bend needle springs~

[@georgf9279]

It might not be how it's done correctly, but I use a crochet hook and pull it in the desired direction. Be careful not to overdo it and check frequently if it was enough.

[@StohrerMusic]

@@georgf9279 use your fingers and bend it in a gentle arc throughout the whole of the spring. Your way will mostly bend it near the post, and it won't feel the same. Also be mindful of the direction.

[@apistosig4173]

@@georgf9279 Its tyrin' to get a nice even curve of the spring rather than a horrid kink. I could achieve this easily pre installation but once its fitted to the post its way more complex.

[@pcaron1]

thank you for all the good information and the good savings we do. what is the use of pad over the bf flat key and the b key

[@hdibart]

Thank You. This is so valuable to see for a DIY sax player.

[@windsurfer3329]

Great vids, Matt! Thanks. Is there any way to get rid of the corrosion? Any method you can propose to remove the tarnished spots, and perhaps re-lacquer the instrument?

[@pfalcon626]

Thanks for posting...loads of info! BTW have you ever used saddle soap to clean pads? Since the bladders are leather, makes sense to me, but I’ve never heard of anyone using it...your thoughts? Thanks

[@pangbokenneth]

Welcome back Matt, greetings from Sydney. This video sums pretty much how I explain what a full/strip down service is to customers here and why it's good to get it done every couple or few years. A probably unnecessarily geeky question here, would Naptha do anything to the Nitro lacquer treatment you always apply on pads? Also those pads, are they still Ferree's B58 pads or you installed other pads on this tenor? Thanks.

[@StohrerMusic]

It does not seem to have any effect short or long term on pads that are worth saving. These pads were not b58s, but were a different brand from before I made the switch.

[@philsweetin5552]

Whats in the chemical bath?

[@jeromejagroop5516]

Thanks for these very educational videos. Do you use the same combination of adjusting materials on the upper stack?

[@StohrerMusic]

I have a range of materials available to me that I am very familiar with and that I like, and I use them in different combinations depending on the very specific application. This article is somewhat outdated and I need to make some edits because my habits have changed since then, but the overall philosophy or manner of thinking about the solution to the problem has remained the same: www.stohrermusic.com/2012/02/saxophone-adjustment-materials-the-stohrer-method/

[@ryangjewell]

Sorry if I missed it, but what additional things would you do for an overhaul vs a clean oil adjust? I just got a new YBS-52, what kind of maintenance schedule do you recommend? It isn't played a ton. 1hr a day at the absolute max.

[@johnnyberglund841]

Hi Matt, your back, nice. What brand on horn, how old? Johnny D Bergh Sweden

[@baritd]

What did you use to clean the body?

[@TrueBlueYou]

That was pube bro straight up. This player parties hard. That thing is Coufed-up : )

[@cpitsiokos]

Do you use naptha on the pads too?

[@paulpetrass4029]

Hello Matt, I'm enjoying your videos. What is your "chemical bath" that you reference in this video? Thanks

[@StohrerMusic]

It varies, but most shops have some sort of "acid bath" or "chem dip" etc to submerge instruments in to remove corrosion. The exact composition and level of acidity can vary. My bath is a very very mild muriatic acid mix I got from Ferrees (I think- I use it so infrequently and at such a dilution that the mix lasts me a very long time, and it has been many years since I had to order it)

[@MichaelOhneE]

Hey Matt, Thank you for the video. What is the name of the transparent liquid product you use for cleaning? I can't really understand the name.. N-something. Thanks.

[@StohrerMusic]

Naptha

[@vintageav]

Great informative video! Can you use isopropyl alcohol in place of naphtha to clean surfaces and old lubricant? Thank you!

[@StohrerMusic]

I've never tried it, but I think it both doesn't clean nearly as well and also has a higher (guaranteed?) chance of damaging old lacquer.

[@vintageav]

@@StohrerMusic very good. Thank you for the quick reply!!

[@christophprobst9613]

The twin of my horn. '78.

[@christophprobst9613]

Even the beard hairs look like mine.

[@babiesmakinbabies]

is naptha ok to use on all lacquers?

[@ChrisAndrewsJazz]

Just what I need...a COA

[@TobaccoRowe1960]

furniture polish, car wax, errr I'd try Boot Conditioner. And I would use it to lube anything involving leather.

[@johnharland2336]

Can you please tell me your best procedure and materials for cleaning pads while on the instrument. I have some common sticky pads. I see some people used paper, lighter, baby wiped, etc... Thanks...

[@RogelioEscobar]

What do you use to clean the pads?

[@HB-ve4wi]

Thanks Matt. Looks quite a bit like a 1964 Keilwerth Toneking I have. Any relationship you know of?

[@johnkotches8320]

Couf horns were made by Keilwerth so just a bit of relationship between them 😁

[@HB-ve4wi]

@@johnkotches8320 Thank you John!

[@gangofgreenhorns2672]

When you realized it was ~7 years since it had been in (not ~4) did that change your assessment of how well your work was before?

[@StohrerMusic]

Yeah. Not bad for 7+ years, being played hours a day and lots of travel.

[@Eeropolvasti]

I have a tenor, old saxophone, needs some overhauling, maybe couple new pads, how much would you charge, if I send it to you?? Thanks, Eero from Lantana, Florida

[@OldAssSax]

Thread locker at the end?

[@saulhernandez1726]

How much do you charge to overhaul a Yamaha yas_23 with making sure sax has no leaks and all that good stuff?

[@Patrock404]

Hey Matt, I'm currently in college for a non music degree and I'm not sure if it's what I want to do. I was thinking about trying to find an apprenticeship and learn how to repair instruments, specifically woodwinds. I was wondering if you had any advice you'd like to share. Thanks, and keep up the great videos.

[@StohrerMusic]

I don't know much, but I'll go ahead and try to answer because I wish more people tried to answer me when I was your age and didn't know what to do with my life. I am going to pretend you are my kid asking me this so I have the authority to share my opinion. That said, take all this with a large grain of salt. My opinion is based on my experiences, and my life story has involved a lot of luck. I try to be aware of it, but I am sure I am giving myself and my decisions more credit than they deserve. If I were you, I might stay in college and finish that degree. Try to enjoy the time- although you are unlucky to be going to college during a pandemic, hopefully not all of it will be spent that way. Enjoy the moment, pay attention, realize that working hard makes time go by faster and in a more satisfying way than avoiding responsibility, find things you like and make memories on the way to getting a degree you can have your pocket going forward. As dumb as it may seem, that piece of paper is sort of like a hall pass for better opportunities later on- its not a great system, but its how it works. Maybe, for now start on repair as a hobby- you can use the open source saxophone project as a great starting place if I do say so myself. If you get good and money starts coming in, hey awesome. If you like repair, you can still do it later on and you'll have that degree as a backup or even use it for your primary job, or a part time job, or whatever. In the meantime, keep your eyes open and take advantage when opportunities present themselves. Don't be afraid to be weird, to take chances, to try new things, to make big decisions, or do things people say can't be done. Everything is uncool to everyone else until you "make it" and then they ask you how you did it (well, they watched). My life has basically been a series of people I respected telling me I was doing the wrong thing or that couldn't do something until suddenly people think I've got everything figured, which I don't and doubt I ever will. I just try to find a quantum superposition sort of feeling where I am happy with now, but also striving to improve. Live in the moment, but make the next moment even better. Lastly, happiness is not something you find, it is something you build. It isn't out there somewhere, waiting- the prebuilt options suck. You have to make it.

[@Patrock404]

@@StohrerMusic Thank you for the advice :)

[@Michael-co9hg]

@@Patrock404 Hey Patrick, I agree with Matt, definitely finish the degree, but you can still learn while you do that. Not sure if this is something you would be interested in but the shop I'm at is offering 1-2 year courses in saxophone, as well as clarinet repair, with our master tech, Bruce Marking. I am taking clarinet now and saxophone launches in January. I definitely made a big decision myself, to leave my teaching position of 5 years and begin down this path of woodwind repair. The cool thing about this is that you can specialize and quickly learn basic repair on a single instrument well, whereas apprenticing typically you are trying to learn to fix a lot of different instruments at once. Our course has had success starting to get people paid work in as little as 2-3 months. Thought it might be of interest, let me know if you'd like more info!

[@georgf9279]

How do you tell the rods apart? Is it just experience? I've taken my own horns apart a few times and I always cover a huge area spreading out all the keys with their correspondig rods.

[@StohrerMusic]

They only fit properly in one place on this horn, and for me it is easy to tell them apart. For pivot screws I use an organizer I made, which I also use for rods when I can’t tell the difference as easily.

[@Joshua-gv1ep]

@@StohrerMusic is there a video where you show this organizer? I would like to make one like it.

[@StohrerMusic]

@@Joshua-gv1ep it’s just a block of wood with holes drilled in it and labels on each one. The pivots I label upper and lower, with lower being closer to the bell.

[@Joshua-gv1ep]

@@StohrerMusic ohhhh cool

[@TobaccoRowe1960]

Superlube Synthetic Grease for those Rods ?

[@jacobl7763]

are you using NAPTHA for cleaning the pads?

[@jrgreiner]

I'm not Matt but yes........it's naphtha.

[@harleyfanREF]

How long will it take until the rods will be undersize when you clean them with sandpaper?

[@StohrerMusic]

Since its worn out 1200 grit, I think a lot. I've measured it before and after with a micrometer and detected no changes that I could tell other than on really, really dirty rods where the buildup was an actual coating that was removed. The wear that causes rods to be "undersize" isn't usually actually the rods getting smaller, but the hinge tubes getting larger since they are the softer material and the wear happens from dirty/dried out oil during playing. If you want your rods and keys to fit well longer, keep them clean.

[@JHouse4]

@@StohrerMusic Ever tried taking a donor rod and just going ham on it, like 5x+ the amount of sand/polish you would normally, to see if there's any long term loss of material that you wouldn't catch on a single pass?

[@erickruse4679]

That just looks like horn neglect to me. I wouldn't ever let my horn get to that point. 10 minutes once a month with a cloth and that horn wouldn't be mucked up and going green.

[@wallywalex3153]

Hello sir, This is Horn Machine Engineer from Nigeria pls sir I need that chemical you use in Polish Saxophone.thank you and I love your Teaching.

[@rusty728]

He said he uses naphtha. Otherwise known as white gasoline

[@christophercollinsworth1340]

Where are you getting Naptha? I have a hard time finding the real stuff.

[@StohrerMusic]

VM&P naptha is typically available at hardware stores.

[@christophercollinsworth1340]

@@StohrerMusic ok. I typically find a naptha that has VM&P on it and it is a little different from the Naptha that I once could get.

[@StohrerMusic]

@@christophercollinsworth1340 stronger /straighter napthas do exist, but they are hard to find and do not have much benefit in my experience. The VM&P naptha is what I have most of my experience with, and it works well for saxophone repair in my experience.

[@aharkness5657]

Is that a unimat DB/SL with a collet chuck?

[@StohrerMusic]

Yes

[@aharkness5657]

@@StohrerMusic That's neat. Lovely machines. I think I spotted a Taig, too, on another video.

[@StohrerMusic]

@@aharkness5657 yes, those are the two I have in operation! I would like to get a larger lathe at some point, but precision is expensive.

[@thecrowdfunddeepdive7032]

How much do you charge for that COA service?

[@davephilips3969]

Try above by the comment heading and select "Sort By" date, and at about a dozen replies from the last, he discusses a cost.

[@tpark89]

I would like to personally donate a swab to this player.

[@sauloferreira3182]

Ficou novo

[@corinnamarie9694]

How much does this service cost?

[@StohrerMusic]

For me, who is slow and expensive, $300+

[@corinnamarie9694]

and worth every penny! thanks!

[@saxofonistacr]

That is a Keilwerth made horn

[@stevejohnson174]

"That looks like........crack maybe....." :-O

[@harleyfanREF]

I assume, that the owner of this horn has no idea about how to take care to his instrument. It looks that he never cleans his horn after playing.

[@StohrerMusic]

The owner is a professional who played 4-8 hours per day for 7 years. They also can see your comments. Be nice please.

[@jrgreiner]

I find the condition of that Couf was pretty normal for a horn that's been rode hard and put away wet for 5+ yrs. I've had FAR worse come across my bench (quite sure Matt has as well). Definitely a player's horn and there's nothing wrong with that.