Cannonball Vintage Reborn vs. Conn 10M

[@AceofSpades9366]

Just bought a '48 10M a year ago and it has stopped me completely from looking at getting another sax. I love it so much and will definitely give it many more years of play time.

[@ricardom.sandovalv.2757]

I have a Mark 6, a Conn 10M and a modern Pro Taiwanese Sax. All 3 are excellent but different saxophones. The sound is inside your throat, processed by your reed and mouthpiece combination and "amplified" by your sax. But the mechanical reliability and ergonomics of the modern saxophone technology is a tangible thing that you don't have to overlook.

[@brucesmith3740]

imo balanced action selmers through vii had great action. not true with all horns since that time, except keilwerth. imo conn 10m tenors feel very good.

[@brianmyers8350]

Blue in gold looks beautiful on that neck! Cheers!

[@hughsmithau33]

The Conn 10M sounds so powerful i like it! I also the warmth in the tone!

[@martinstonely2636]

The Conn 10M sound is for me !

[@jjfairlando3343]

The both sound great, but as a player, words can't express the joy I get from playing my 10M. It gives me inspiration a modern horn just can't provide.

[@SaxSpy]

It is a treat to play an old horn in great shape, knowing that the masters found their voices on those saxes

[@nehemiahstewart]

I have a big bell brute with tiger eye stones. Love that horn. Looks better every day.

[@jeremyhall9850]

Vintage. There’s a quality there that can’t be replicated by the new horns.

[@thomaskipfer1008]

The 10M is my horn! I recently found a '69 with underslung neck. The neck makes altissimo fly out of horn with very little effort. Incidentally I found a tenor pro mpc in a parts horn case I bought for $75.00 made in good old China. That mpc rocks my 10M like nothing else; what luck!

[@SaxSpy]

Awesome, glad to hear it's working great for you.

[@drwallysax]

Nice work man. That Conn is just beautiful. You sound fab on both, but I really wish modern companies would ditch the vintage patina finish (I know I’m in the tiny minority).

[@SaxSpy]

Thanks man! I do like Cannonball's amber lacquer as well, as they consulted the original selmer guys on that. I personally wanted the Mad Meg, but after playing them all, this specific horn stood out and that's how I got it. It has been fun to see it change over time

[@zachattack4982]

@@SaxSpy did you treat your brute finish at all? Or is that all natural?

[@SaxSpy]

@@zachattack4982 the brute gets lighter over time where you touch it. This one is different than most brutes due to its textured application of acid. New ones are smooth.

[@zachattack4982]

@@SaxSpy oh that's why it's different. I wish they still did the textured application it looks so much better.

[@SaxSpy]

@@zachattack4982 The difference is paper towels :) technically you could do it yourself, I did it on my ligature

[@vector.mp3_940]

I ended up with a 10m as a random rental for my school band instrument and boy am i glad i did some more research when people started pointing it out

[@Tom06]

Absolutely unreal luck

[@lesgoe8908]

10M hands down. More character and punch with an open, less stuffy sound compared to the Cannonball. I was quite surprised to hear a vintage horn sounding so "modern" compared to a contemporary sax. Great work! Thank you.

[@alanpavel361]

The vintage captures enjoyment and elements that it is difficult for a modern horn to replicate.

[@MrCparking]

The tone, character and presence of the 10M is hard to beat. Lots of dynamic response every time you attack a note. What a horn despite its quirky ergonomics, super clean! In comparison the Cannonball sounds more uniform and somewhat more tame when pushed. (As side side note you might consider recording with a tad less software reverb. Could be my speakers, but I feel a drier recording would highlight the sound differences better.) Cheers!

[@SaxSpy]

good assessment! I do add a bit of spring reverb after since my room is so dry. For any after stuff, I do keep the same on both as to keep it close

[@smoke09able]

I liked them both but the Conn 10M was my favorite. You project a nice mellow sound on it. The Cannonball had a lot more edge to it that gives it a beefier modern sound but I also like it.

[@SaxSpy]

I'd agree, accurate assessment! The conn is big and warm

[@Craig2760]

Two weeks ago, my wife found a Martin Indiana alto at a second hand store for $45.00. Brass key work. Matching serial number neck, original case with the original warranty card from 1956. I put my Meyer piece on it and it played high F down to low C. Took it in for a restoration. Picking it up on Friday. Can’t wait.

[@SaxSpy]

wow! Congrats on the find and happy practicing

[@timmo491]

Vinty because i have exactly the same Conn (straight tone holes not rolled) in gold! Bought it in 1980 at Bill Lewingtons in Shaftesbury Avenue London played it ever since.

[@ronhendon6381]

Love both I’m a collector and performer on vintage saxes but a few years ago I tried a Big Bell tenor at a music store in Atlanta and bought it on the spot was the most responsive and expressive horn I’d ever played. Pay Cannonball takes top position at gigs and I have a Selmer S80 and a great VI a Buescher TT and Conn New Wonder in gold plate and I’ll pick the Cannonball every time 👍

[@jona8798]

Time stamps for direct side by side 4:15 5:45

[@GerryLSmith]

10m for me..

[@Samcatiscool]

10m alllll the way

[@ghawk78]

Both are very good, but different. I played a VR Brute a couple of months ago and I thought that it had a MkVI kind of vibe. I was pleasantly surprised at how it played. It felt "at home" under my fingers, as well. Thanks for the video!

[@SaxSpy]

There is a nice VI rumored to be kept at a safe at the CB factory... I can confirm a VI, but I've never seen the safe :p

[@RatPfink66]

It's the balance in fundamental vs. overtones that gives any instrument its character. - I hear the 10M giving a solid fundamental with its own characteristic spread core (a function of the low overtones), and flexible higher overtones that the player can shape and voice. - I hear the C'ball giving a more basic fundamental, with the core character a bit higher and crisper. I don't there's as much the player can do to shape the higher overtones, altho they can vary the color with more or less edge (a function of the highest overtones).

[@bobblues1158]

They are both good-two different flavors! I have both horns also and for me the 10M is one of the fastest horns around. I absolutely think that the Selmer offset set up is hype. But that of course is only my personal experience. I enjoy your vlog very much, thank you for presenting it!

[@SaxSpy]

Thank you! They do each have their own flavor, I'm glad to hear that came across

[@willis251]

Your sound is for real killing and I love the fact that you use the same mouthpiece as me even with the same finish. Keep it up!

[@SaxSpy]

Thank you!

[@satriahadjobaru2718]

That select jazz mpc really stands out the tone

[@kevindeibert3369]

I think Dexter Gordon brought 2 horns to recording sessions: an old Conn for ballads and a more current Selmer for the uptempo numbers. I dig the sound of older (pre-WW2) horns- but not so ergonomic

[@brucesmith3740]

there vid where he plays the 10m live. he played 10m on blue note records. I heard he had it stolen. I asked Dexter about the Selmer he got from Ben Webster. He didnt much but confirmed it. the prestige records and after had Selmer mk6.

[@TimZannes]

Dexter's 10m was stolen before he got a mark 6 tenor.

[@stevel6895]

They both sound great. However, my experience with Cannonball (I own an alto) is that they are a tad too heavy. Also, I sold my 10M years ago and I've regretted it ever since.

[@youngandrew66]

I prefer the conn type kneck now I've swapped from a modern to vintage Holton from the 40s. I find the m. P goes straight into my gob no messing. It's harder work but it has aTone!

[@Trevayne4]

Love the look of the vinty but preferred the sound of the minty

[@skprostudiotips2978]

Great vid, surprised by the results !!!

[@erickruse4679]

I think think somehow Cannonball turns that "buzzy" characteristic of a modern Taiwanese horn into a positive thing. I liked both of them for different reasons. Saxophones are a product where the product specifications are remarkably sparse. It would be nice if we could put our finger on the relationship between the manufacturing specifications and the sound output and demand better products for our play style and desired sound through greater specificity when ordering. We are mostly left to listening to youtube videos, with varying mouthpiece/reed/player combinations and just sort of guessing.

[@benhostetler268]

I pretty much did a blind listen and I preferred the CBTVR and I can get that horn a customized engraving and still be paying less than a pristine Conn 10M like that.

[@SaxSpy]

They are very good horns! The engraving is unreal. They are doing faces now with like a 3d engraving

[@benhostetler268]

I own a Cannonball VR Alto and its a very, very good horn my only complaint is the pinky table G# is a tad small but I've gotten use to it.

[@furtherdefinitions1]

Maybe I'm biased because I own a Conn 6M alto, also silver plate gold bell and rolled tone holes, but the 10M sounded a little more livelier and smoother

[@lucassstache8069]

Absolutely love your channel. Glad I subbed and I am in love with the Big Bell version of tenor and it’s the main one I play and practice with. Thank you for making this comparison!

[@SaxSpy]

Thank you for your support! The Cannonball team makes great instruments, I'm happy to hear it's working for you

[@asdfate1]

I have a couple Cannonballs (Big Bells, not VR) and really enjoy them. When I heard the Conn, I was pretty sure I was going to pick the Conn. It has a bright tone and immediately reminded me of the music they were made to play, jazz era stuff. I heard the Cannonball and it sounded a bit warmer, but still great. I love old stuff, and I love the satin silver look of the Conn, and all of its history, and if you gave me the choice of the 2, I'd take the Conn. But without knowing brands and looks and everything, just doing a blind test on sound, I'd prob grab the Cannonball.

[@SaxSpy]

both fantastic horns for sure!

[@silver10m10]

Sounds like you on both but I'm hearing more focus, brightness and character on the 10M. Depends what you're look for though...the Cannonball has it's own thing. I went back and forth between Selmer and Conn for years...don't own any more Selmers...still got the same 10M I've owned for 23 years. On an interesting side note I've found the bundy II tenor neck to work incredibly well on my 10M. Tenon adjustment required of course !

[@danielclermont2680]

Conn for sure for me. What a brilliant tone.

[@dasteufelhund]

Can you do a demo on a vintage horn showdown? Please do include a Martin tenor/alto

[@SaxSpy]

I don't do much showdowns because they are just different tools, no one sax will be objectively better, but I do have plans to do more saxes soon :)

[@caiosax]

I would be definitely happy with any one of then... they both sound great! I have a bit of a preference for the 10M though... just a bit.

[@SaxSpy]

It is such a great horn

[@rkomada88]

Your '52 Conn sounds wonderful. However, you really need to track down an earlier model from 1930s - 1940s WITH the rolled tone holes (RTH) and then (and only then) will you get the real Conn experience and sound that you are seeking.

[@SaxSpy]

Absolutely!

[@timmo491]

Ive had both Conns.i honestly prefer the slightly later straight holes sounds more focussed.

[@jacobdeaven7477]

This is the best demo I have seen of a Cannonball Vintage Reborn. Any reason you removed the lyre screw on the cannonball?

[@SaxSpy]

thank you! My friends and I called it the fiddle screw so I probably just dropped it one day

[@cleevealbert1318]

I know vintage is best but i like the sound of the minty, it rings!!

[@KingJhones]

Love the Conn 10M sound....My dream is to play it, but I live in Russia and I definitely can't find one here. So sad.

[@SharpElevenMusic]

Cool video man! I play a Conn Ladyface on bari and it has a very nice sound to it. Only thing is that it technically drives me a bit nuts, so I'll change it probably, don't know for sure how that is on alto or tenor though.

[@SaxSpy]

Similar. I played a later 12M for a while and fell in love with the thick sound, especially the palm keys

[@daniellosen4008]

If we didn't know until the very end, and if you were to edit this so we could hear smaller snippets, side by side, might be easier, or harder to tell them apart, but a fairer way to judge. Bottom line is that you made both sound great! So it boils down to the subtler aspects and intangibles about how you feel when playing each...and maybe different setups work better with one or the other....

[@SaxSpy]

I do that on my instagram! I usually chop it up in different ways

[@gilsontopfstedt3554]

of course the CONN has the big tenor sound, lush... uncomparable character... the Cannonball is a pretty horn with a nice core and character as well and as a Selmer MK6 copy...it wasn't manufactured to sound like the big American Vintage horn. These are 2 totally different beasts... with points for the Cannonball , assuming better ergonomics, playing comfort and better intonation. But I'd rather prefer the 10M with the Cannonball ergos. :-P

[@SaxSpy]

Nailed the head right to the hammer with that one!

[@gilsontopfstedt3554]

@@SaxSpy which neck do you find more comfortable to play? Conn or the Cannonball? I got used to the Conn Neck of my NW 1 I used to have. ...I personly like it better than all other modern necks. The Buescher Aristocrat Neck is also the same...pretty angled.

[@SaxSpy]

@@gilsontopfstedt3554 Cannonball. Conn requires pushing out with the thumb to get 90⁰

[@gilsontopfstedt3554]

@@SaxSpy that' true. Are the VR Ergonomics similar to Yamaha/Yanagisawa? I am wondering if the keywork is Compact. How would you describe it? Please

[@SaxSpy]

@@gilsontopfstedt3554 Quite different than yamaha. the yamaha pearls feel more concave and the lh/rh rotation is different

[@crugil]

Def vinty for me..Just bought a vintage 10m..don't see the lady on it..though its a bit worn on the bore and is a 1961, which may not have her on it..But unforunately doesn't play and will have to put money into it..new pads, oil, springs etc..But even then will still have spent the same had I bought one which was ready to play..

[@danhitchcock124]

I think I prefer the you on conn for the Lester snippet, but the cannonball for the others. Mostly the notes bends on the Lester solo sound more fluid on the conn but you “slot” the pitches better on the cannonball if that makes sense? Thanks for the great videos!

[@SaxSpy]

Admittedly, I did spend my college years on the CB.

[@MegaRas73]

I like the Cannonball best. Which one is easiest to play??

[@SaxSpy]

the Cannonball for me

[@sumitsagaonkar]

The conn 10M thats the sound my ears like

[@philipmurray5900]

Another great video and great blowing. I was surprised that I preferred the Mintie. Could you comment on the weight of the horns? This never seems to be mentioned with regards comparing modern Taiwanese horns e.g. Cannonball, Eastman with classics e.g. Mark VI, 10M, Buescher Aristocrat. My limited experience is that the modern horns are much heavier.

[@SaxSpy]

The Big Bells are certainly heavier, but the Vintage Reborn is similar in weight to a VI. I will check that with a scale soon.

[@philipmurray5900]

@@SaxSpy Many thanks. I have a Walstein tenor (the first of the 'good' cheap horns) that is much heavier than my 1957 MkVI. I would like to replace the Walstein with a ?Eastman 52nd St or the Big Bell (or even the Lupifaro having heard Chad L-B play his) but not keen on getting something that is very heavy.

[@panjandrum.conundrum]

Conn sounds juicy, flexible, 3-dimensional. Cannonball sounds pinched, inhibited, almost Midi. No-brainer.

[@ryanstrohman7429]

Dude you’re already a monster player, you don’t need that much reverb to sound good imo

[@SaxSpy]

I was trying to go for the old school spring sound!

[@bobbrown737]

I like both of them . The 10m I thought had a good “clean” tone were as the Cannonball sounded a bit darker at times reminiscent of a 60’s Selmer MKVI .

[@SaxSpy]

The VR is definitely based on a VI, a 14xxxx era one too

[@AGC828]

For SOUND--vintage!! OFC. THere's just so much more there. Anything broken in is better. :) Not that a good sax player can't get good sounds from a modern sax no matter the brand. Even some of the Taiwanese made sax brands. But many are biased against them as Taiwan is next to China. And Taiwan has yet to establish themselves (like the Japanese and Koreans) for reliability and good QC. And good engineering. And perhaps they don't care...as long as companies keep going to Taiwan/China to have their products made. They continue to get wealthier. Only minor stumbling block with buying vintage is knowing where and how to spot a mint horn. Does your city have qualified restorers to work on a King, Conn, Martin...how many have they worked on. Are they even talented? It is an art. Any time you're "good" at something it becomes an art. Those that don't care to make it an art and just "do it"...we'll see it in their work. Just as we can tell if some one playing a sax truly loves the instrument/music or is playing "because they have to (school)..parents made them...)...

[@vasilelung192]

Buna sunt din romania si am un sac alto original bufet crampon argintat anul 1940 stare foarte buna ași vrea să-l vand

[@faustobalboa2740]

I think both sound great but i felt more power in the Conn 10M are you agree? By the way great channel!!

[@SaxSpy]

The Conn did have a huge sound, especially in the palm keys!

[@faustobalboa2740]

@@SaxSpy wow thank you!

[@samondaatje3604]

Connonball sounded a little bit more edge. Really enjoyed this video! Great content and production quality!!!

[@SaxSpy]

thank you!

[@stefanzdraveski]

Awesome playing and awesome review. KZbin needs content like this. Quality sound and video. I preffer Canonnball tho. Broader sound to me. Keep up the good work man! I would be more than happy to see Yamaha 875EX alto review vs old Selmer or Yanagisawa.. Cheers from Bulgaria! Subscribed!

[@SaxSpy]

Thank you! I'll be trying all sorts at NAMM, I'll see if I can get those

[@1dotele]

they both sounded great so why not have both I did like the conn best

[@SaxSpy]

that's the idea... vintie + mintie

[@vladimirlopez7840]

I know the love affair people have with vintage horns but I will take a high quality modern horn over vintage horns any day. Better ergonomics with smooth key work better intonation etc. You can find your flavor of sound in any number of modern horns.

[@jazzybluesyyoo6914]

Conn with 7th compound mixture tone with a light weight and Cannonball is straight forward tone with a heavy weight. choice is up to individual's decision i would rather go for Conn for a long term usage

[@danielryanmusic]

Mintie! really nice core from both horns though. I would like to talk about the modification on the Mouthpiece you are play if any at all ! Its really warm and fat but also has a lot of projection and presence.

[@SaxSpy]

Daniel Ryan Music A future video about that! I actually made a video already but I’m redoing it

[@super88888]

Как можно сравнивать посеребренную дудку (тем более серебро не оригинальное) и без лака? Это разный звук изначально.

[@SaxSpy]

some people think plating makes a difference, but compared to a CB that's probably the smallest difference

[@Danox94]

I'm not a very tall person, so I'd probably struggle a lot with it, but if I could choose one vintage sax to own, it would have to be the Conn 10M. What a beauty of a horn!

[@alaf0lie]

What mouthpiece do you use ?

[@wcakgilleran]

What type of work did they do to your neck? I have a VR Tenor and I love it but it has strange voicing when working in a sax section. Does CB offer neck services?

[@SaxSpy]

It's a proprietary thing they do, so they did it in the next room. I believe they are only allowed to work on CB

[@wcakgilleran]

@@SaxSpy Right. I'm talking about my CB Vintage Reborn brute finish tenor. Any idea if the general public has these services available to them from the CB factory? You said you were having intonation issues that got fixed right?

[@SaxSpy]

@@wcakgilleran Ah, they might be down for it. They usually work through dealers, though. If you passed through Utah, I'm sure they'd consider adjusting it.

[@javierquesada798]

in this case the cannon sounds less bright but very little

[@monroec.hatcherjr.8233]

Good playing Dude! Ypu make it difficult to say. I guess vintty

[@jjlivepattern]

the 10M has more density and a richer fuller sound and a little more sunlight splashed on top. Cannonball sounds a little hollow in the center core in comparison and less warm. Tonally forget about it. Conn

[@Homeros__]

4:16 vs 5:45 4:35 vs 6:05 5:14 vs 6:44

[@tellitlikeitis-rg4ny]

Not in the same ballpark as the roled tone hole 10m

[@SaxSpy]

some day I'll get one of those!

[@kenjarczyk8535]

The Conn 10M!

[@espr7564]

Played 10Ms for years awesome horns, blows any MK6 away and much better in tune than Selmer, but the Cannonball is FAT!! 👍😎

[@MiguelGebremedhin]

I'm surprised but I actually prefer the Taiwanese horn. The Conn is bigger sounding for sure, but the the newer horn has a more focused and sparkly tone. If I were to buy one I think I would prefer the ergos on the newer sax.

[@AlexVolkhin13]

I was comparing the conn alto and the yamaha 62. The old conn won, it's some kind of student model. I think there is a crisis of saxophones in the modern world. Why don't they produce such saxophones, why don't they produce Brilhart mouthpieces? modern saxophones are very bright or crowded with sound. They have big trumpets, which is terrible. Eventually I will save up money and buy an old American saxophone or selmer and I will be happy. I saw a record on the American forum that a man sold his old Conn and bought a yamaha, this is some kind of crazy, I thought.

[@mariosalemejuniorsalemejun4862]

DOIS SÃO MARAVILHOSOS

[@paoloalbano4690]

I'm quite surprised by the Cannonball.. I play a '27 silver Chu Berry, so my preference goes for the 10M, but... probably it's you

[@leonardoaloi]

Conn 100%

[@javierquesada798]

friend the sound is in the cane and the sound that you bring from birth

[@SaxSpy]

thanks!

[@maf9314]

10M !

[@gangofgreenhorns2672]

4:15 5:45

[@AlexRodriguez-nm5dh]

Conn 10 M

[@thehastysamurai3058]

Vinty

[@jameskirk2277]

Minty

[@tctc2470]

Cannonball all day long.

[@youngandrew66]

Great playing by the way. How rude of me!

[@SaxSpy]

thank you!

[@Jazzmarcel]

i believe the main draw of the 10m is its unmistakably dexter!.......the sound absolutely eaks of dexter! on the other hand, the cannonball doesn't have a imprint of a great player (yet!) or playerS as in a mark 6! i guess we all play to naturally want imulate the greats of the past that inspired us to music but, if you want to trailblaze your own sound, play something new!

[@stevecooper1023]

Cannonball 👍

[@peterisancverins]

I wanna try these dammit xD

[@hammered0184]

Prefer the Cannonball. Bigger sound!

[@SaxSpy]

that horn got me through college!

[@samsanchez9526]

Cannonball

[@jpdj2715]

To me the Cannonball sounded less interesting, more dull. If I had to listen to a recording where this was the main instrument, I think I would loose interest quickly.

[@paracletusrevelation4080]

Conn sounds better!

[@saxofonistacr]

Cannonball sounds better. and having a modern key layout. It is way more comfortable to play

[@eckartmusic]

Minty