SBFC 195: Pat REALLY Hates Melee Players

[@SmarkusAurelius]

Melee is not a fighting game

[@ehmiguel7602]

Crooty it really isn't. even sakurai said so.

[@GoldRaptor00]

Crooty melee isn't even a game

[@griffin__6673]

Melee doesn't even exist tbh

[@Peanutz996]

Crooty fuck off

[@AStandsForFrench]

it's not tho

[@PookieDaExzile]

CRAZY TALK ACT THREEEEE: REVERSE PAT SPEAKS SO MUCH TRUTH HE KILLS SMASH

[@Whatevsman27]

Oh he killed Smash alright

[@weir-t7y]

YOOOOO

[@Screwy]

9:46 "But if that's the difference between winning EVO and not winning EVO..." "Then you did not deserve to win EVO" Pat, for once, is a prophet

[@InvaderKaz2008]

If you're nothing without the controller, you shouldn't have it

[@StellaStarfall]

FoxOwne _Nice._

[@ledzeppelinfan1001]

I mean...hes right lmao

[@dethkid7]

Time to ban all arcade sticks then

[@kbg-]

@@dethkid7 More like time to ban all pads, and only allow arcade sticks.

[@mattland2998]

this video has aged m a g n i f i c e n t l y

[@64sierra46]

Like a fine wine.

[@aratherfestiveperson3273]

darklordster they pulled melee from evo iirc

[@apa123APA]

Also Street Fighter has some major drama about hitboxes the past months.

[@vinnythewebsurfer]

HAHAHAHA. Pat is great

[@ATHF346]

even more so now

[@BlargleWargle]

"Then you didn't deserve to win Evo." Right there, mate. If you can't win on the same level that everyone fights at, you're not a good combatant.

[@Whatevsman27]

Ashton Leinauer really went deep on that one chief

[@TastyChurro]

Ashton Leinauer why?

[@logandh2]

Tasty Churro It’s a Melee fan, we don’t talk to their kind

[@Yal_Rathol]

Ashton Leinauer and yet, we all seem to understand human interaction better than you do. does that make you a sub-human creature if we're retarded?

[@madthrasher88]

The one time pat isnt super wrong. he's super right.

[@ncala]

Pat was scratched by his cat during a stream. Little did he know his cat's claws were made of stand arrow, turning him into PAT and evolving his stand into CRAZY TALK REQUIEM. When sufficiently angry its power reverses allowing PAT to be 100% right on whatever he is ranting about! This is the power of the Ultimate Ginger. The power to create truth out of lies!

[@nube1oscuras]

Kind of like the Bite Marks from Jojolion?

[@n-aera]

MetalCrow448 the Requiem Arrow is the most stupid excuse in the whole saga

[@n-aera]

MetalCrow448 yes? hey!if the arrows that never got an actual introduction pierces you a second time you get a power up! and somehow no one ever tried this! but hey! don't go yet! remember the arrows? somehow there are special ones that somehow gives you a even more broken power up and yet... SOMEHOW NO ONE TRIED IT TOO BEFORE admit it, the arrows are just a plot device

[@AwkwardKyle]

The meteor the arrow was made from should have been part of Kars

[@n-aera]

MetalCrow448 you can't say "everything is a plot device" to justify the lack of an explanation of an important plot-changing event, that only proves that the writer is lazy or rushing things wich we know Araki was doing at the end of part 5

[@waspennator]

Only in Melee can I hear about someone dropping out of a competition because their controller didn't have the one in a million defect that allows for a special technique to be performed easily.

[@TheTriad001]

waspennator5 More like one in 50 but your point still stands.

[@KarmaKins]

I need to show up to this boxing match with a gun otherwise my strategy just won't work. It's not technically cheating though because theoretically the gun won't always go off.

[@malikoniousjoe]

Karma Kins It's more like the gun you brought has a zip tie around the trigger, and it is undoubtedly gonna require focus to undo it, but in the end you still brought a fucking gun to the ring.

[@BlxckBaron]

a gun can be turned into a blunt weapon really fast lol

[@RayOfTruth]

It's more like you brought shoes that feel really comfortable to your feet, but they make you change into itchy shoes that distract you from the match.

[@ShadowStar765]

@@RayOfTruth Well nearly everyone else has to use the same pair of shoes, why should one person get to use their special shoes?

[@RayOfTruth]

@@ShadowStar765 I didn't know everyone who has ever played a sport wore the same shoe size, the same shoe brand, and used the same foot arch support.

[@Jardonius]

"No, Melee is a good game, it's just the people that make it trash." I'm okay with this.

[@FuriousGorge]

Jarod Walker I can agree with half of that.

[@BaconMaken]

Nah, melee is outdated crap. I have no idea why so many people praise it as "DA BEST SMASH GAME EVAH" when 90% of everyone just plays as Fox. It's obviously not balanced.

[@StormsparkPegasus]

I definitely agree with that. It's a great game, especially for its time. But Ultimate is a way better game in every way. I still have Melee and still play it occasionally, but I don't do this stupid BS "oh I have to use a CRT and a broken controller". I haven't owned a CRT since 2004.

[@MIGU3L2K]

Great at the time, but Ultimate is by far, WAY better

[@chuckles3116]

Bacon Maken 1. One of the best parts of Melee on a competitive level is edgeguarding and the dynamic risk/reward it allows for with Edge Hog (which was removed in 4 and Ultimate) acting as a safe option. 2. The hitstun is so short in Ultimate that there isn’t any period where the player getting hit is vulnerable to follow up but can DI to escape 3. Melee is the only entry (aside from PM) that has fast characters and has characters retain ground momentum when they jump 4. It is widely agreed upon by Melee theorycrafters that Marth has a 60-40 matchup against Fox

[@kwedl]

Pat's 2 year long plan finally bore fruit

[@ricardonelson7628]

Pat knew

[@ruikirisame1744]

I'm out of the loop, what happened?

[@supergage102]

Rui Kirisame melee wasn’t at evo

[@ruikirisame1744]

@@supergage102 thanks

[@vinnythewebsurfer]

Heh

[@thebigchungus4515]

I can already tell Pat is gonna be happy when he hears about EVO.

[@SchrodingerMil]

I didn’t know until I read your comment. GOOD.

[@TheAssassin642]

What happened at Evo? Did they mention it on a future podcast?

[@sandhanitizer1990]

@@TheAssassin642 yeah i wanna know too

[@sandhanitizer1990]

@@TheAssassin642 just did some research, they took off melee from EVO

[@ledzeppelinfan1001]

@Brandon Munoz fuck Melee.

[@BasicSub]

God pat shit talking anything about melee is the greatest.

[@Tuskor130]

Michael Sorondo pat shit talking anything and being right is the best

[@Anu_Evil_Queen]

Every year I come back here to listen and hate on melee players.

[@Mr_Meatbox]

If how you play your game relies on volatile broken equipment that deteriorates with every touch just to give you a slight difference then you need to reevaluate how you even think

[@awkwardcultism]

So nobody should play arcade cabinets then?

[@KingHalbatorix]

speedrunning old games

[@SlappersOnly819]

I'm sure he's just talking about the comp games like melee. Speed running is fine because you're just breaking the game to beat it faster which is interesting.

[@KingHalbatorix]

@@SlappersOnly819 using old broken shit to go fast = good using old broken shit to go fast but you're fighting another person doing the same thing = less good if you can excuse speedrunning needing broken shit to work right, then how does that not also apply to high level non-speedrunning gameplay?

[@SlappersOnly819]

@@KingHalbatorix who says you need to break the game for speed running? Not all speedruns require that. Also, I have no problem with both people using glitches in fighting games to play as long as they both have access to do so. But if you need a broken ass controller to do some bullshit that nearly no one else can do without, that kinda dumb. I agree that people should be supplied with a standard controller at these tournaments.

[@shotguncrucifix]

This video is the perfect microcosm for the Best Friends and when they're at their best. Pat is gold when he's irrationally angry about something while Matt provides colour commentary and Woolie tries to be the straight guy (but fails by laughing uncontrollably)

[@StellaStarfall]

Creeden Martell Honestly, you’re super right, but at least Pat and Woolz can still make it work without Matt. #CastleSuperBeastAtLast

[@LeonStephan]

This is also a rare case when, while being irrationally angry, Pat also spouts right takes about the subject at hand. If you have an advantage above others for being able to execute a tech only available to you for a controller with a flaw then it's cheating.

[@nowonprzn7442]

as a smash player i agree armada dropping out a whole tournament cause a controller is ridiculous as leffen said if u care that much about a controller why don't u have a spare

[@DiskSystems]

"Melee players have to cheat at their own game for people to take their game seriously. They disguise the bugs they exploit as “advanced tech” to trick people in to taking them seriously, but in reality they’re just glitching out a broken party game. I hope nintendo releases melee hd but they fix all of the bugs that melee players exploit and don’t release any gc controller support i want this fixed version of melee to exist to spite melee players, so they have to keep lugging their crts around to exploit bugs that nintendo fixed in the rerelease. so they have to explain to people that they can’t play melee hd because nintendo fixed the bugs they use to cheat at the old version." - captainsnoop

[@ColaNerd10]

DiskSystemChronicles Ah, so you are here cause of captainsnoop too

[@nbshftr]

DiskSystemChronicles sakurai couldnt patch wave dashing, so a competetive community was created

[@mineerthegamer]

NoobShift3r he never intended to patch it after they found it he thought it was cool and L canceling was always there even SB64 had "soft landing" which is the same thing except easier it was intended not a glitch. SF2ST is trash aswell in that case because of litterly everything. and so is third strike because... because fuck you third stroke is toooooo hard >::[[[[[

[@magnumbadguy9354]

This

[@cameronmills3599]

THANK YOU, I'VE BEEN SAYING THIS FOR MONTHS

[@Aidan8N]

All these years of being wrong, and out of nowhere Pat is the most right person in the world. Amazing.

[@ShyRanger]

Except taht he consntalty uses the phrase "I hate the Melee community" when he should say he hates the worst people in it. Sure maybe he MEANS that, but you don't say "I hate black people" if there are some black guys that honeslty are assholes.

[@Aidan8N]

Yeah great point calling out the Melee community is the same as racism, brilliant post.

[@ShyRanger]

Discrimination is discrimination

[@ShyRanger]

I am saying that I personally feel that all discrimination (to any race, disabled, or any person's various beliefs or in this case interest) is equally bad because it greatly harms the speaker's (in this case Pat's, mindedness and thoughts about other people. Again I don't think he really feels that way but I personally feel it's something taht should be very sensitive about. I say this as a person with avisual disability who has constnatly had to deal with the discrimination of "Oh you can't see well, guess you need help right?" As in the person assuming something of me before they know me. I don't wan them to think of me that way AND i dont' want myself to think of them in a bad way. If you want to talk to me more about this, try and find me on Skype I guess cause it's a mindset I hold strong. Bottom line, to me, all discrimination is equally bad and we should all take steps to be a lot more sensitive about our word choices. If that's an unpopular opinion, or if you stil lthink my "all discrimination is equally bad" is garbage, fair enough but I stand by it.

[@rosshickman6681]

Its the end times the end times have come!

[@michaellaverty7349]

Ah so that's why Melee players can't afford deodarant. They're saving the money for broken controllers?

[@namelessresource5782]

Underrated comment

[@ABonafideSkeleton]

>can afford to buy rare broken controllers so they can cheat on their broken party game >can afford to travel to tournaments >can't afford to buy a cheap stick of deodorant It will never not be funny to mock the competitive Smash scene.

[@lupin6741]

UCF

[@ChrisPoindexter98]

🥴🤢 Ugh....

[@bigsauce1116]

As if ghetto fgc people smell any better?

[@MarbleVirus]

God, every now and then I come back to this video, and every time Pat calls Armada, one of the 5 big melee players, a whiny pissbaby makes me lose it, every single time

[@thegoodoldays911]

I mean he's right.

[@reckyt6367]

Thegoodoldays but, hes not.

[@Yal_Rathol]

Ashton Leinauer good talk champ. you got 'im good.

[@AzureKing963]

I mean, being great at something doesn't mean you can't be a whiny pissbaby. Kanye West is a talented musician but that doesn't make him not an asshat. It makes him a very talented asshat.

[@arkx8136]

@@AzureKing963 being good at something doesn't excuse you to be a piece of shit, people only care he's a piss baby cause it's funny to watch him act like a child while he craddles a game that should have been dropped a long time ago

[@Starnana]

"Melee was a mistake." - Masahiro Sakurai

[@Talz622]

"False quotes are not cool" - Abraham Lincoln

[@Starnana]

+yaboiTallMan "... Unless it's Starnana's false quotes." - Abraham Lincoln

[@Starnana]

+yaboiTallMan "I would like to retract that statement. He is actually a nice guy once you get to know him!" - Adolf Hitler

[@asdfsdfsdf5114]

Starnana Guy He has never said that

[@jacobe2891]

Asdf Sdfsdf It's supposed to be like that Miyazaki quote, "Anime was a mistake" meme...

[@GoldRaptor00]

after listening to Pat be wrong/mostly incorrect for four whole months during the DaS LP, it's almost jarring to hear how goddamn right he is.

[@kamon6961]

DaS?

[@Sora744]

The Comment Police what is DaS?

[@ImaTroper]

Dark souls?

[@Sora744]

Ishmael Demon Souls?

[@harveyebetts3736]

The Comment Police CRAZY TALK REQUIEM: PISSBABY BLUES

[@343GuiltySparkO4]

Pat's [CRAZY TALK] has inverted itself to the point that he's now 100% right.

[@ShyRanger]

Except taht he consntalty uses the phrase "I hate the Melee community" when he should say he hates the worst people in it. Sure maybe he MEANS that, but you don't say "I hate black people" if there are some black guys that honeslty are assholes.

[@euancoyle4370]

He stabbed it with the arrow to turn it into his requiem stand [ALWAYS RIGHT] Now he can never be wrong

[@divan4440]

ShyRanger you know youre not making the community better when you spam this in every comment chain.

[@SchmittPlaythroughFR]

"And to your left you can see a rare instance of the Paticus Boivinius being right about something..." - Tour Guide Nixon, in a Zoo

[@ShyRanger]

Discrimination is discrimination.

[@RandgrisAlmark]

"My shit is busted, that makes me good." No, that makes you a Smash player.

[@Percival917]

And a bad one, at that.

[@Naruxos07]

This video is more relevant today than when it first released.

[@Whatevsman27]

Fuckin right?

[@RenzoShadow]

It's funny how the situation has gotten even worse with controllers now that modding them has become openly "accepted". You can actually tell who is playing with a modded controller nowadays plus top players are openly commenting now how it is actually unfair at this point and is essentially cheating like sbfp concluded. At this point all top players use some form of modification that makes execution of a number of skills far easier and more consistent than a fresh controller out of the box.

[@alexhernandez1216]

hearing him say piss baby cries because he cant cheat makes me laugh everytime for some reason

[@BIGBLUBLUR]

Nice try, Pat, but no one can hate Melee players more than we hate ourselves.

[@InsaneToats]

The sonic avatar sells it

[@joeschmoe1514]

BX3 how do I like a comment twice

[@Flindo911]

I read this in Sonics voice

[@altosforteaquax5083]

as you should

[@PaperThinnGlennHall]

my favorite parts of the podcasts is where pat complaining about shit. and he actually has a point.

[@Brandonious15987]

TheMasterOfAllStuff No he doesn't. Pat is using a situation he doesn't understand to shit on Melee. The sad part is that if anyone on the podcast knew more about the story they could shit all over Pat being wrong.

[@michaelc5279]

Then how come a lot of people here are saying he's right about it? How does he not understand it? He doesn't need this as an excuse to shit on melee because he does it anyway lol

[@Brandonious15987]

Michael C Its really easy to not understand a situation actually. All you need to do is not research it. Never said he needed an excuse to shit on it but that is what he is doing with this issue. He is using a problem he doesn't understand to shit on a community he hates. Almost every solution Pat suggested wasn't an option. The amount of people saying he is right doesn't matter. A lot of people like Heavy Rain. Must be a good game then right? That's how facts work I guess.

[@KirklandtheSecond]

Brandonious15987 Pat's not wrong though. in ANY other circumstance, having a controller that gives you access to moves that otherwise are impossible to preform with a standard functioning controller is Cheating. To finish Woolie's train of thought, a firetruck modded with an Octo-gate does not give a player new access to new abilities that couldn't be preformed on a standard square gate, which is why octo-gates are allowed.

[@Brandonious15987]

JeluxDaCasua No Pat's wrong. The types of remotes we are talking about do not give you access to moves that are otherwise impossible. Armada uses a remote that reduces the odds of failing at a input any remote can do. The difference is that standard GC controllers are more likely to randomly fail unlike the type of remotes Armada uses. Calling Armada a piss baby for dropping out I get, but its not cheating. I still wish someone blew up Pat on this like they did Woolie on Roger.

[@krasmazov009]

Yall are mad because Pat is right

[@Lonequacker]

Had to give this a listen after the news that Melee is gone from EVO. The evil has been defeated.

[@krizpyclips9270]

The GOAT you mean? When have you seen a video game last so long without remakes and updates and having the most active players on it out of it's era?.. Never, only SuPER SMASH BROS. Melee has.

[@anthonychessar7179]

You're definitely overexagerating. There are plenty of older games with long lasting communities, Melee ain't special. Which is why I'm glad that inferior game is done being in the spotlight so that the shite community can dwindle and die off. RIP IN SHIT MELEE!

[@dreadburnz3522]

@@krizpyclips9270 So?

[@bigsauce1116]

It's funny how much it bothers people that melee is still popular. It's laughable. Melee is literally the video game equivalent of the n word. The more it triggers people, the more people will play it lmao

[@DJCharma]

Mew2King walks around with a duffle bag full of about 4-5 controllers. he is insane.

[@furyberserk]

Didn't Bushnell once say videogames were a mistake?

[@ZamboinElite]

If you need a broken controller to win, you aren't that good.

[@k.-flynn]

@Lain good

[@k.-flynn]

@Lain huh? Idk what you're referring to. Are you talking about a community mod to make the controller glitch, or to get fully functional first wave controllers?

[@k.-flynn]

@Lain ok but is it the cheating controller or the real one, that was my question.

[@comingupooo]

@Lain So you can't viably play your game at top level without controllers that only have a 1 in 50 chance of being busted just right or employing third party hacks?

[@VTGN-II]

@Lain but you're missing the point, you're modifying a controller to do things it normally doesnt. That's cheating and your entire mentality is straight stupid.

[@cicerograndeurity3139]

dunno if it's been mentioned, but GC controllers are still being produced, especially since smash bros for the WiiU (GC adapter) was released.

[@kleetin1292]

super late reply, but I think he was talking about the original GC controllers that have the defect not being produced anymore.

[@takashi0100]

GUESS WHO AIN'T AT EVO ANYMORE?

[@TyRiders2]

CELEBRATE GOOD TIMES, COME ON!!!

[@awesometown1000]

🦀🦀🦀🦀 MELEE IS GONE 🦀🦀🦀

[@obamawasreal0264]

Evo

[@lilsoonerfaninmo]

And guess who replaced it? We live in the perfect timeline

[@JeedyJay]

I know we've been over the "why didn't he have a backup controller?" question, but what I want to know is... if that Magus's(?) fix code is explicitly listed as a viable alternative, _why don't they just use that?_ These stories never get into that, and yet they keep specifying, "if we _don't_ use this patch that we clearly know about, only 1-in-50 controllers will be useable for this technique!"

[@hypeknight8256]

That would require playing Melee on Dolphin, an emulator on PC and buying completely new hardware for 120hz monitors (if we take the "Faster Melee" route). As of right now, Melee has almost no money for a hardware infrastructure change, and most importantly, it would possibly sever the minuscule ties and support from Nintendo we've desperately worked to get since MLG dropped Melee. Despite how useless I believe Nintendo's sponsorship for most major Smash tournaments have been (mostly paperwork for rights to stream the game and sometimes Nintendo Switch Demos at Smash events), its a sign of progress for the community. Nintendo would surely refuse to sponsor events based upon downloaded and or ripped copies of the game.

[@JeedyJay]

They are _already_ accused of those things. This "only 1-in-50 controllers will do" is going to attract (and is attracting) more ridicule than using a patch will. Cedric's reply makes more sense, but is still highlights the source of the problem being a small clan of players that are unwilling to accept how niche they've become.

[@liruzt]

It's a code, it can be used on Wiis (and GCs), probably with TE loading via the memory card. 120hz monitors are also only necessary for online play (and not even that, it only allows you to play lag free from a further distance).

[@Brandonious15987]

Jeedy Jay A small clan of players being unwilling to highlight how niche they've become isn't a problem for Melee. The community is still growing.

[@RawkLobstah88]

Brandonious15987 Except it isn't. The requirements of "You need to play on a Gamecube", "You need to play on this controller", "You need to use this TV", etc., which require setups made with products that are not made anymore, and the overall negative light the community has within the rest of the FGC, not to mention the repeated negative news we hear about Smash players (IE, booing Xrd players because the tournament took too long, allegations of sexual harassment, etc.) only serve to push people away instead of draw them in. Look, I love playing Smash, it's a very fun game, but even from the outside, the Smash community is a wretched hive of scum and villainy, and I personally have absolutely no interest of interacting with it in any way because of the overall toxicity that it exudes. Refusing to acknowledge that, to me, is just being a part of the problem. I have noticed that a few TOs are trying to get things cleaned up by making the players follow basic rules like "Clean up if you leave a mess" and "Don't throw controllers", things that should be common sense, but shit like this, when your #1 player decides that if he can't have things his way, he's going to take his ball and go home, only makes the community look more childish and worse overall.

[@SMTensei]

Pat must be having a fucking field day right now.

[@dianatheascian8701]

So the SBF died in order to kill melee?

[@StellaStarfall]

Luna Rose Worth it, Woolie and Pat have established Castle SuperBeast from it.

[@slowcookerhomeplanet]

Melee still alive

[@TastyChurro]

@@slowcookerhomeplanet the community is dying from those recent events. That's a win.

[@slowcookerhomeplanet]

@@TastyChurro melee is doing great rn with rollback also most of the hit from the community has hit smash ult not melee

[@giloguy101]

Aaaand now Nintendo decided to deliver melee a swift kick to the nads

[@Shadic4101]

I'm not playing this football game unless I have my special football I can't play this basketball game unless we're playing on my personal court I need my special racket with all these crazy modifications to play tennis

[@awesometown1000]

I’m not playing baseball unless I have my cork bat

[@francescolombardi3438]

I'm not playing Cee-Lo unless it's with my alien dice

[@CsarPetertheGreat]

Y'know, I'd be down with saying the tourneys provide gear. But 9/10 melee groups can't afford or don't have a venue with a million CRTs or whatnot. Wait, so melee would die out faster. DO IT DO IT DO IT DO IT DO IT

[@dvdblock4522]

smh

[@lupinektj2002]

I mean, if we had support from nintendo it'd prolly be fine. We don't. So I guess we'll just have to keep using what we have been for 17 years.

[@comingupooo]

@@lupinektj2002 "Why won't Nintendo support the extraordinarily niche competitive community of this nearly 20 year old game that has had 3 releases over the past 17 years?"

[@lupinektj2002]

​@@comingupooo It has so much financial potential. The fact that its still a scene even without Nintendo's support shows that with Nintendo's help it'd be even greater. Rerelease melee, or Melee HD, huge amount of money right there. Port it to the switch, make more gamecube controllers. It also seems that none of the other 3 releases have the staying power. You don't have to innovate with Melee, whereas they tried to slow it down with brawl to amazing failure. Then smash 4 was better excluding DLC to win with Bayo and Cloud. Ultimate might have the ability to stick around for a little longer than both of those games combined by taking some aspects from melee. It's not free of issues though. New game, Melee could die, chances are slim. TLDR Melee's working, where Brawl and 4 kinda dropped off. They can easily do melee again, and call it meleeHD. Make a large stake in the highly profitable competitive market without having to innovate. eventually roll out very small patches to the game, slowly trickle in new characters, fix some game breaking bugs.

[@Anarchic1989]

@@lupinektj2002 No it doesn't, stop lying to yourself. Melee is a dead game that has been milked by an insane fanbase who refuses to move on and because of this they think they're important at evo. No one cares about Melee other than this small, niche, fanbase. Fighterz became the most viewd game at evo in it's history while melee just had a bunch of losers break and exploit their game to make it look cool. Like really? A guy quits a tourny because his controller wasn't broken enough to consistently break the game with? Oh wait my bad "play" the game with? Everyone in the fgc looks at melee like a joke, it's not even a damn fighting game and you guy's insist on putting on the same pedestal as Sf, Tekken, Fighterz, Blaz blue, guilty gear, etc. What Pat said was absolutely correct (for once) this games fanbase is a cult, only a cult would bitch and moan about other games that came out after because they're not exploitable enough, so instead of adapting you play melee. That's what the root of this problem is, you losers spent nearly 18 years breaking this game and fucking up your hands and because of this you refuse to play the other games because you don't want to learn the newer, less broken mechanics. Basically my thesis is this; you melee players REALLY do stink, and should get out of your basement and experience something else in life and actually try to have FUN.

[@ABonafideSkeleton]

>acts holier than thou to all the other Smash players >insists their broken party game that's riddled with bugs is a real fighting game >has 5 no-lifers who kick all the newer players out of tournies early on >the only way to have a competitive edge is to cheat >pro players throw hissy fits and shit themselves when they can't cheat And people wonder why Melee is the whipping boy of the FGC.

[@werewolf873]

You know what i love about these comments? Not a single melee player is making an argument against what they are saying, it's all just ad hominim and apologetics

[@comingupooo]

And allegations of all of us being racist towards Melee players. Don't forget that.

[@GoronsCave]

first he says about the busted controller, that is because sakurai REFUSES to let outside patches and quality of life changes to the game like 20XX to be implemented at EVO so they have to use busted controllers because of an underlining issue with the control scheme that sakurai knows exists but won't fix , so how do you fix something that shouldn't be broken in the first place? you find a way around it second he talks about "that's like showing up to a street fighter tourny with cabinets and you refuse to play with what they have and demand a hitbox to be installed" in fact this does happen and in team tournys the changing of the cabinet controllers are aloud because people have diff preferences, it's common and the fact that he doesn't know about this blows my mind because he says he knows so much about the FGC

[@GoronsCave]

​@@mylesbissessar8450 to fix the game, he rushed it and it took 6 months to make, rushed it to get it out for the game cube release. Patches were needed to fix it in which he did do (PAL vs NTSC) if you bought a game and couldn't control your character due to the game being rushed out wouldn't you ask for the game to be fixed?

[@comingupooo]

@@GoronsCave Guess what idiot? There've been 3 Smash Bros games since Melee. You want a better version of Smash, go play one of them. Oh wait, but then you can't use the glitches and exploits you claim to be "tech". God, Pat's fucking right, you guys are a bunch of whiny entitled pissbabies.

[@MurlocHomes]

@@comingupooo Did you know combos were originally a glitch? Now a staple mechanic, if they removed combos from future Street Fighter games would that make them better? We don't always wanna play the other smash games because we are limited in our options to just about everything, including movement relative to melee.

[@GabeSweetMan]

Pat: Trust me, I think a LOT about the fuckin' mentality of cheating because I LOVE it! Woolie: Hm.... I love that Woolie has no comeback for that. Pat's status of god-tier piss-baby cheating scumbag makes him an authority of piss-baby cheating by piss-baby cheaters.

[@nbshftr]

Streetfighter's combo system was originally not intended, and the devs expanded on that, wavedashing was unintended and the devs abandoned that.

[@AlquimistEd]

wavedashing was actually discovered during development stages and they decided to keep it there.

[@ew275x]

VirgateSpy Yeah but it's more "Like, oh, that's weird. Shouldn't affect the game too much." when they discovered it. Sakurai seeing it widen the skill gap too much for his liking is why he removed it.

[@Artaneius]

And he should of removed it. Casual gamers right to have fun is more important than competitive gamers. We are the majority you no life losers better bow down to us.

[@danielmaster8776]

Artaneius Wavedashing is for fighting games that don't care about their casual audience. Casuals like to have tournaments too, you know. So if there's even 1 or 2 guys who know how to wavedash better than everyone else, or they're the only ones who know how to, the tourney winner is basically already decided before the first match is fought.

[@manzanito3652]

@@Artaneius Asuming that wavedashing cannot be fun in a casual match.

[@SlurgDurgler]

I completely agree with Pat

[@CaptainDemo779]

You ever notice how whenever we got into these kinda stories, Matt suddenly got so quiet we forgot he was there??

[@purplelemondoesstuff3044]

To be fair, Matt had always been quiet on the podcast.

[@josora1654]

He always played the part of a mediator to be fair. In the middle of an unstoppable force and an immovable object

[@frogery]

it's gonna be a good EVO boys

[@AbuOmar]

I knew the SBFP brethren would come back to this video today hehe.. *salutes*

[@HCSR2]

Rare footage of Pat actually right.

[@ChadMyLife92]

The day this podcast was made was the day Crazy Talk was pierced by the requiem arrow and unlocked Crazy Talk Requiem. Thus giving him the ability to be completely right in every sense of the word for 20 minutes straight and he used that time to shit on the melee competitive scene and the pissbabies in it. He used his time in the most productive way possible.

[@obamawasreal0264]

To bad we'll never see that

[@blueblazer9991]

Play Smash however you want,but please don't pretend it was intended for competitive play,it was explicitly not You are turning off 80% of game content and breaking and bending the game into a competitive format Smash characters are balanced for all the ingame modes and minigames not for competitive And I agree with Pat 100%,if you can't win with standard equipment for a competition,unless it's purely cosmetic,you don't deserve to win Even if it is just an os,if the other people can't do it with a normal controller,it's cheating

[@MrHebee1]

No one said that smash was intended by Sakurai for competitive play. Also every gamecube controller can backdash, its just some do it better than others. So, Armada wasn't looking for a controller that can do a technique other controllers can't do, he was looking for a controller that could more consistently do that technique. Whether that controller can consistently back dash or not is completely random out of the box. It is completely out of a players control. If your oppontent happened to order a controller online that turned out to be better than yours, you're at a disadvantage.

[@GeneralErlend]

BlueBlazer While I agree mostly with your statement, I think you are misunderstanding something. There are no longer any "standard" equipment (controllers) for Melee. Every controller these days are and feels different when playing the game. If you can point to a gamecube controller and say "this one is standard, everyone should use it", then fine. However, this simply isn't possible. And while Smash was never intended for competitive play, the first two just happened to be competitive viable (and for the most part pretty darn good ones at that, aside from the obvious inconsistent character balance past the top characters). Also, I'm pretty sure everyone has enjoyed the game's content to its fullest. At some point though, you are going to get bored, so you can choose to either take a break, move on, or do something different (like playing competitively, making speedruns, whatever you want to do).

[@garretmontgomery186]

,

[@Brandonious15987]

It doesn't matter if Smash was intended for competitive play but otherwise you have a point.

[@josephpolk9660]

Also, by the logic of "removing game content" to play competitively, wouldn't that mean that USF4, GGXX, and any traditional fighter with any casual content that is available in versus mode would be "removed" for the sake of competitive play (Edition select for USF4 and GGXXAC+R, and EX and Gold characters are removed from GGXX, Unlimited characters would be removed from BlazBlue, and the Extra Menu would be removed from GGXX, all for the sake of competitive play). Also saying Smash shouldn't be played competitively because all of the characters are balanced for the casual modes is actually stupid (because some characters are better than others for the other modes too ie. Jigglypuff would be extremely easy to kill if you land a bombomb or a instakilling Pokemon on her, and Samus can crouch cancel and survive to extremely high percents).

[@sandmaneyes]

I used to visit Smashboards a lot, so listening to someone trash the sacred cow of that place is both shocking and refreshing.

[@NovaBombardment]

I absolutely LOVE the painful silence after Pat's statement at 9:54, because it's the moment he won the argument, and nobody had any response. The only reason it ended is because Pat broke the silence himself.

[@alucardyoici]

they ask for union and vacation of tournament for their ranking but they will give up a tournament if they don't have their controllers?

[@KafeiAle]

Pat was right btw, Woolie kept giving examples of different brands of fighting sticks working differently, but in this case we're talking the same exact product with a defect, it's not a case of selecting one brand over another.

[@NovaBombardment]

My brothers and I argued too much while playing Melee, so our Mom got mad at us and SOLD OUR GAMECUBE. How blessed we were to have a mother that could see the damage that Melee would have done. We would still be children to this day.

[@metaturnabout9259]

Listened to this 2 years ago. Back then I went “pat is fucking stupid”. Now I’m like “melee is fucking stupid”

[@WTFisTingispingis]

I find it hilarious KZbin gave me "Pat hates Melee" "Pat hates Superman" and to top it off "Pat hates getting shot." Good job, KZbin.

[@magnumbadguy9354]

🦀🦀🦀MELEE IS GONE🦀🦀🦀

[@SamuraiChamploo654]

Melee is not at EVO this year so Pat is probably happy right now.

[@BorikeTheBlackDragon]

Hmm, I wonder if the smash reddit has been here. Something tells me they were

[@mailmanwilly]

Came here after seeing that Big House tweet. Impressive how the Smash community has not matured since this rant.

[@Dingalow]

7 years later and he's still right

[@Cootsy]

This is gospel to me. I come back here every few months with some cheese and wine.

[@liruzt]

In short, when dashing your controller has to pass the "walk" area of the joystick, when dashing forward you have a 2 frame leeway window where it ignores the walk input if the input on the next frame is a dash input. However this does not exist on backdash, the window is only 1 frame (programming oversight i guess) meaning if the game reads your joystick just as it passes the walk area it will do a slow turn (5-9 frames depending on character) and then start dashing. Normal controllers have around 75 & success rate doing dashback while the busted controllers have up towards 95 % success rate. 4 extra frames might not sound that much but since tilts and such changes moves you can accidentally do a completely different move in a different place than what you intended, for no fault of your own. Since you never know if your dashback is gonna work or not it makes them risky to use (but also an integral part of the game), and missing a dashback at high level could basically kill you (since top player punish game is so advanced). The workaround is to be frame perfect whenever you want to dashback, since if you dashback on the first available frame after you have had lag (from like, attacking) this "bug" can't happen. This is also inconsistent, not to mention sometimes you don't always want to dashback immediately.

[@comingupooo]

...or you can play a real fighting game.

[@FiveTiger]

You're not really a Mario64 speedrunner unless your console is in space to maximize the chance of cosmic rays affecting the RAM

[@AgentOracle]

Angey comments uploaded here Daily!

[@danganronper6278]

re-watching this to pay my respects for Melee being out of EVO 2019

[@PolythenePam0451]

Mabye the real fighting game was the friends we made along the way.

[@HippoMustache]

Wow, Pat couldn't be even more right hearing him talk about this. Still the most based best friend.

[@canadanionerdo5434]

Pat rage over 9000,Whoille meh,Mat,what wait what's going

[@bladeexe]

Pat wins!

[@johnmoya7654]

12:39 *“Trust me, I think a lot about the fucking mentality of cheating. Because I LOVE it!”* Is such an underrated line 😂😂

[@mattrusso64]

As a melee player myself, I just want to say that i do agree with pat even though I’m part of the community. A lot of people can be toxic in the community but I understand where he’s coming from. If u can’t play at the same level as everyone else, then you don’t deserve to win EVO.

[@donovanpereida924]

Most of us in the community think the same way

[@ShyRanger]

That's why I hate when Pat talks about it. He says he hates the Melee communiy when he should mean he hates the worst people in the community. I'm sure that's what he MEANS, but he doesn't say it. He might as well say he hates the black community.

[@mattallison5375]

Donovan Pereida you've commented this at least twice, now i know for sure that you hate african americans (maybe african-canadians).

[@divan4440]

ShyRanger if the competitive melee community was so good why dont they do the same thing as pat? call these fuckers out with those broken controllers and ban them from tournaments no matter who it is. otherwise you will get lumped together.

[@JeedyJay]

You are commenting on a chain started by a guy from the melee community doing exactly that, DiVan.

[@ShyRanger]

Jeedy Jay is right, the only reason SBFs ARE talking about this is because they found people TALKING about it.

[@MayyroMusic]

The people saying in the comments that the majority of Melee players aren't like this baffle me. I'm a 64 player, I mod the game extensively. I get melee players coming to me constantly asking me to make the game more like melee, PM64 this, make wavedashing that. Any time I tell them no, I have no interest in doing that nor does any other 64 modder, they become an obnoxious pissbaby and make fun of me, saying this is why nobody likes 64. Fuck Melee, and its community. If you can't respect me, why should I be forced to respect you or risk having my game banned from Multi game smash tourneys because you need more fucking doubles timeslots?

[@mineerthegamer]

Mayyro I'm deeply sorry my brethren were big piss babies over you not demaking melee in the 64 engine (which would fucking ruin 64s awesome fucking combo game). but I would like to ask if it's finally possible to really add new characters I wouldn't mind seeing a few new faces to mash in with my 64 falcon combos.

[@Hieratic_Manny]

Wow I've never heard of modded 64, like mineerthegamer said sorry for fellow melee players being dicks, I love and play melee, and I have a lot of respect for 64. I can't play it as often as I'd hoped but it's really fun to watch

[@awesometown1000]

As a huge Ultimate fan, I feel this. Melee fans do nothing but talk shit about other Smash games and then complain when the other Smash fans dislike them. It’s fucking stupid.

[@spencerl9897]

I fuckin love Melee but I was crying with laughter during this

[@fake._]

Lol salty Melee dislikes

[@hathejoker]

The problem with Melee, that I see, is that it was not designed to be a competitive fighting game. As a party game, Melee is pretty good. As a fighting game, Melee is pretty mediocre.

[@dvdblock4522]

lol

[@theonewhowrotethis5681]

A problem that you would encounter with having tournament provided equipment is the competitors potentially throwing their controllers after a loss. Happens a good deal in some competition groups (i.e. Leffen in basically any game that he plays and loses).

[@YaMamasAss]

Yeah, that's a big problem with the idea. But, they could always penalize the players for fees and charges for equipment they break.

[@Hoenhime344]

Simple solution. Ban and disqualify the pissbaby

[@Toshi-vu1hh]

Any competitive game-"You all use standard controllers so everything is fair and no one has any edge." Melee-"I NEED MY SPECIAL CONTROLLER TO DO MY BUG 'TECHNIQUES' THAT ARE ENTIRELY LEGITIMATE!"

[@FYGUnkleUrple]

In the current climate of the hitbox/cheatbox debate, I’m happy to stumble across this again.

[@russfilet3807]

I had no idea about the controller thing. So very specific controllers can give players an advantage due to a special defect? And people complain if they can’t get that controller? My interpretation (I could be wrong cause I know little about fighting games, let alone Melee [the second worst Smash game] “I wanna play Ryu in the next tournament but I won’t do it if my controller DOESN’T have the gun button. If not that I’m like everyone else which is actually fair but I don’t want that.” Pat is 100% right, that’s bollocks

[@hmaster24]

It'd be more accurate to say the controller fixes a glitch. Imagine if SFV had a glitch where 50% of the time you inputed back it just dropped the input However for some reason a certain brand of stick caused the glitch to only happen 95% of the time as opposed to 50% in this hypothetical situation you'd either be forced to use that brand of stick or wait for Capcom to patch it.

[@russfilet3807]

Tew Liter That’s fair but it’s still ridiculous, even with SF5 it could be updated to fix it, ain’t no Sakurai fixing a ok Smash Bros game he doesn’t even like that much himself at this point. But that’s a good point

[@dp-2win95]

But isn't that the same for sticks? Some sticks have better input delay than others.

[@russfilet3807]

Brandon Acosta I’m not sure cause I know very little about fighting games but the fact “pro players” for Melee complain about this kinda stuff is a bit ridiculous, honestly. Look how they reacted to Melee not being at Evo

[@marcellosilva9286]

Seeing people get salty about this two year-old video gives me more power.

[@adams3627]

It's like a tool-assisted speedrunner demanding to have their times listed with speedrunners using no outside assists. Sure, his times are faster, and they're the results of techniques other speedrunners probably couldn't do even if you gave them the same tools, but when there are skills or techniques hard-stuck behind tools, mods, or broken controllers, it's a fundamentally different class of play.

[@Zcumgod]

Pat is so right that its causing me to fade away from this plane of existence

[@isaacsussman5632]

Smash players in general seem to be allergic to the concept of being treated like a real fighting game. Everyone else is expected to standardise thier ruleset without the ability to fuck with it. Everyone else is expected to move to the new game in the franchise no matter how deep the previous was (otherwise Third strike, MvC2 and GGXX would be the current lineup). If smash cant handle that shit then they gotta get the fuck out of the fgc.

[@ARMIV4]

Pat isn't right all the time, but when he is right he is very right.

[@hawke7471]

Look, I agree with Pat. However, I am one of those Melee fans that just plays the game purely for fun. Competitive Melee sucks, but Melee itself is good

[@Anarchic1989]

I respect you, because yes it's supposed to be played for FUN, And yet people in the community insist on ruining it and breaking it. When you play with these guys at home, NO ONE has fun.

[@wistfulanthophila9317]

late as fuck comment but he says in the video melee isn't a trash game the players are

[@hawke7471]

@@wistfulanthophila9317 It's never too late to be right, friend.

[@wistfulanthophila9317]

i agree with the sentiment as well, i think the competitive ruleset goes completely against how the game was meant to be played. Not even mentioning how annoying the people who keep it going are. That being said, on it's own I think melee is really fun especially with friends but honestly in that department there's not much reason to play it over the later games which generally have more to do.

[@demonicdude1328]

Like it or not, he speaks the truth.

[@FunM0nkey]

I remember listening to this for the first time and thinking it wasnt a big deal, and that this was like an uncommon event that happened. Then i heard someone came up with a mod to make the most recent smash play like melee, and then I realized that no, the melee community (not all of it) is literally a bunch of pissbabies not able to grow up from how they played a game, and have to make the experience shitty for everyone else

[@Anarchic1989]

They are already making a mod for Ultimate after THE FIRST MONTH, to make it more like melee even though Ultimate is the fastest game since Melee and has Melee inspired mechanics; yet these smelly losers insist on changing it to make it more like Melee.

[@juniorjunior5884]

@@Anarchic1989 Wow, fuck those guys.

[@TheDeliciousMystery]

But how does it compare to crumpet dashing tech in a real fighting game?

[@cormacmccloppy1071]

Melee is a great fun time with friends, and that's all it's supposed to be.

[@AlquimistEd]

Blaack Sugar A panda bear fighting a wooden doll fighting a guy with a jaguar head.

[@HibHab69]

(types in melee) (sees "melee players crying") ...not sure if this video is listening to what I watch.

[@Mr_Meatbox]

Pat is extremely right

[@cranktherider4302]

Back here again after the Hungrypox Incident

[@RareBrink]

basically, you get to dash backwards in 1 frame instead of 5-9. TECHNICALLY, any controller can backdash but you have to press the stick REALLY fast. Like, you have to get from center to full tilt within 1 frame. It's easy to do this if you pull your thumb back and slam it into the stick but that isn't really feasible for normal play. Controllers that are good at backdashing have a combination of a weak spring (there are 3 different kinds that can be in GC controllers) and a smaller than average "full tilt" area (due to shitty quality control on GC controllers) which allows players to reach full tilt in one frame with more normal technique more consistently. Honestly, I don't find perfect backdashing super important in my own play but I also play sheik who I would argue the technique isn't as important on.

[@RustyMailboxPro]

Smash is not a competitive fighting game. It's a party game. Deal with it.

[@AlquimistEd]

but it is

[@susanaalmeida593]

Can't it be both?

[@igelfullmetal1307]

I play both Splatoon and Pokemon semi casually, but both games have active competitive communities.

[@RayOfTruth]

You must also think that because Mario Kart is a party game that it is not also a racing game. Games can have multiple genres.

[@maximutatro3176]

Its a competitive party game. Which means its a party game but u get mad at ur friends

[@Whatevsman27]

I wish i understood/ was more into competitive fighting games so I wouldn't have to pause every three seconds to look up definitions and terminology Edit- I understand more now

[@ehmiguel7602]

Jeremy Garner damn, that must suck.

[@blaacksugar7714]

Eventhubs helps with that.

[@sodainmycereal]

me and Pat disagree on a lot I adore Blazblue, he hates it He loves AOT, I find it pretentious He adores Persona 4, I find it ok but Pat and I totally agree on how we feel on Melee

[@cyn7696]

9:19 to 10:10 is the purest summary of this rant, and pat is 100% right