Scarborough Fair - A Melodic History I

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Scarborough Fair - A Melodic History I

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The Lost Antiquarian

Күн бұрын

A Melodoc History Part II is out now
• Bedlam Boys - A Melodi...

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@reddevil70 4 жыл бұрын

I’m a Scarborian 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿❤️

@TheFolkRevivalProject 3 жыл бұрын

I've just uploaded my own video on the history of Scarborough Fair! It includes over 30 traditional recordings of variants of the ballad, and discusses the actual origin of the famous melody. kzbin.info/www/bejne/l5XPeZp8rcmifNk

@johnbarron4843 3 жыл бұрын

No you’re not

@DerekDerekDerekDerekDerekDerek 7 ай бұрын

@@johnbarron4843🤡

@leonardofaber5823 6 жыл бұрын

Thanks for your work. It's the most complete research I've found about this ballad. How is it possible that a song has such an effect on us? Maybe we'll never know

@TheHangingWood 6 жыл бұрын

Thanks, I'm also turning this into a series. And will soon be uploading a much more in-depth history of an equally enigmatic old song.

@TheFolkRevivalProject 3 жыл бұрын

I've just uploaded my own video on the history of Scarborough Fair which will answer some of your questions! It includes over 30 traditional recordings of variants of the ballad, and discusses the actual origin of the famous melody. kzbin.info/www/bejne/l5XPeZp8rcmifNk

@bonsummers2657 3 жыл бұрын

Here's another contender, though multi-instrumental: kzbin.info/www/bejne/q5mZYoSHo5VlbpI

@Avoiceofone Жыл бұрын

It's a medieval melody that's stood the test of time, being past down through generations, as are many of our sayings and children's games and nursery rhymes.

@frederickdietz3148 6 жыл бұрын

hi I'm happy to see some actual research on this! :D whenever I hear this song it makes me think of a prison or heartbreak song which would makes sense. it's sad and about courage and the name has never really changed. So what if it were written by someone who was suffering perhaps sang from a prison cell, or after a heart break, something alike and someone else overheard them possibly in medieval England after all Rosemary sage parsley tyde, courage, romance, loyalty. that's the sort of song I'd write if I was going through a tough time or something similar. I realize this doesn't help that much but it's just what I'd think.

@davidmcmanus4751 3 жыл бұрын

Rosemary, Sage, Parsley and Thyme. All herbs. A farmer from the 14th Century?

@TheFolkRevivalProject 3 жыл бұрын

@animalsandiphones 3 жыл бұрын

It’s a spell

@adribcn8996 2 жыл бұрын

For mi this song is something thats goes to a Battle and know he Gone to die, and is sending s message from something Who he loves and she lives in farborogh

@hitechinc.7875 Жыл бұрын

I like how it evolves to be the song that we hear today by Simon and Garfunkel. Yet evolves again but now by Yamada Tamaru a short version for an anime.

@jonathaneffemey944 3 жыл бұрын

I remember a Cecil Sharp recording of a seaman from East Anglia in the UK at the start of the 20th century. This was recorded directly onto an old 78 and was played on the BBC some time ago...hauntingly beautiful.

@Hezigrimm 4 жыл бұрын

Good work, always wondered about this song. Always seem to have taken from Greensleeves but with more modern folk. More interesting is the 19th century versions were in the style that was popular and common then or well of the 18th century. Basically it is one of those songs that is kinda hard to tell where it came from and what exactly it's origins and original is like. Honestly, I like that more than knowing. Again, thanks for you research and fine job at that.

@TheFolkRevivalProject 3 жыл бұрын

@Mercari1964 2 жыл бұрын

Stunning and scholastic work -- world class and insightful. Excellent!

@MeasAgun 6 жыл бұрын

Wonderful work, thank you a million times. Cheers from France. :)

@TheFolkRevivalProject 3 жыл бұрын

@aloknarain139 6 жыл бұрын

A diligent research work on the history of BRITISH music. Thanks for the efforts that went into the making of it .

@TheFolkRevivalProject 3 жыл бұрын

@Its_a_Mr_Eh 4 жыл бұрын

This is great info, thank you! I think the Simon & Garfunkel version just became my second favourite after the Owen Brannigan version at 6:30. Beautiful melody.

@TheFolkRevivalProject 3 жыл бұрын

@gregor-samsa 4 жыл бұрын

i found more in german...(translated) The name can be attributed to the Middle Ages, when the northern English coastal town of Scarborough was an important meeting place for merchants from all over England. On August 15 of each year, a 45-day trade fair called Scarborough Fair began there, which was very long for the time. When this fair was abandoned in the 19th century, the name Scarborough Fair was given to a music festival that now takes place every September in the same city. The song was probably written in the 16th or 17th century. It is possible that it came from the Scottish folk ballad The Elfin Knight. It was changed several times after it was handed down from city to city. So it happens that dozens of stanzas exist today. However, only a few of them are usually sung. The song is about a former couple who are now mutually insurmountable tasks to become a couple again. The last stanza indicates that it is not important to fulfill the tasks; it would be an attempt to face it. The today known melodic version of Scarborough Fair was coined by Simon & Garfunkel; their recording appeared in 1966 on the album Parsley, Sage, Rosemary and Thyme. Paul Simon learned the song in 1965 from Martin Carthy in London and added the counterpoint of "Canticle", a re-recording of the song The Side of a Hill. In 1968, the song was released as a soundtrack to the film The Graduate as a single. The copyright lies exclusively with Paul Simon, which Martin Carthy was a thorn in the eye, since he was actually the "traditional source". There was no reconciliation between the two until 2000, when Paul Simon sang the song together with Carthy at a concert in London. kzbin.info/www/bejne/hIqseml8gJ1psLc

@TheFolkRevivalProject 3 жыл бұрын

@johnfordjr.5718 2 жыл бұрын

Thanks, your research helps those of us who are sticklers about the origins of our authentication processes.

@christopherlees1134 4 жыл бұрын

Great work on this research! Thank you. I feel that the melody is very old, perhaps from the 1300s, because it has the same sort of style as a monk chant. The earlier melodies barely resemble the modern one though. The earlier ones are more complex while the modern one seems to express the bare bones of the melody, the essence of it, which is probably how it was in the beginning. Very thought provoking!

@TheFolkRevivalProject 3 жыл бұрын

@classic287 6 жыл бұрын

Very interesting. I love the version Simon and Garfunkel did...

@TheHangingWood 6 жыл бұрын

Yes, interesting they chose to do the English version not the American version Cambric Shirt as performed by Peggy Seeger.

@oscarlinebaugh8930 3 жыл бұрын

I like their version also. However, I also like the version Nox Arcana did.

@TheFolkRevivalProject 3 жыл бұрын

@cluelesspixie 5 жыл бұрын

What a great video. Thanks so much for your efforts!

@TheFolkRevivalProject 3 жыл бұрын

@romyt9816 2 жыл бұрын

I was searching for exactly a video like that with no hope. Thanks a lot.

@desdemonadaiimari785 3 жыл бұрын

This song is so beautiful...all thanks to dad for introducing this wonderful piece to me....coz nowadays most of the people doesn't listen to songs like this which is itself a wonderful art

@tedandrews405 Жыл бұрын

Wonderful research which we all profit by.Thank you.

@49erfaithful86 Жыл бұрын

such a fantastic video!!! I really appreciate this!

@joaofrancisco8864 3 жыл бұрын

Great video! Thank you for the research and for uploading it

@TheFolkRevivalProject 3 жыл бұрын

I've just uploaded my own video on the history of Scarborough Fair which includes over 30 traditional recordings of variants of the ballad, and discusses the actual origin of the famous melody. kzbin.info/www/bejne/l5XPeZp8rcmifNk

@justaspirit9719 6 жыл бұрын

Nice work. Thanks for the video.

@TheFolkRevivalProject 3 жыл бұрын

@gregor-samsa 4 жыл бұрын

I am glad that I found this here. As a German I have heard this for decades without understanding the meaning. Today I researched the text and am now deeply impressed by the story of the impossible love behind it. There is - to my knowledge - nothing comparable in German. Since there was already a lot of music exchange in the 18th century and before, I would not be surprised if an older version of the song in old notes can be rescued somewhere on the continent. Two other associations I would like to share: 1: An equally unusual story in a German song. An unfulfilled love in which someone consumes himself in a deeply joyous song with dead sad lyrics (oops link later added) kzbin.info/www/bejne/pKCrlXyNbLiLr5Y and 2: a man who had other conclusions on this and build something else instead ... en.wikipedia.org/wiki/La_Jamais_Contente

@Riondrial 4 жыл бұрын

The youtube link is sadly not leading anywhere anymore.

@gregor-samsa 4 жыл бұрын

@@Riondrial improved...even in the english...

@TheFolkRevivalProject 3 жыл бұрын

@gregor-samsa 3 жыл бұрын

@@TheFolkRevivalProject yes but it is protected as there is "umg" content contained. It can't be played in my country it says. maybe split it in 30 small? This is Germany.

@TheFolkRevivalProject 3 жыл бұрын

@@gregor-samsa Ah I'm sorry you can't watch it. It's blocked only in Germany and Japan because of the copyright of certain songs. Maybe you could use a VPN?

@granthudson5447 Жыл бұрын

Great song got introduced to it, listening from Hayley Westenra

@jimdodson4211 Жыл бұрын

Thank you for putting this together. I don't have any input to share about the musical part of this song, but I would like to share my interpretation of the lyrics. This is my opinion but I think this may help in understanding why this song has been saved by people and passed down and survived for so long. The reason this song has survived is the lyric's meaning are so powerful. The general lyrics pre canticle are basically this. A man is dying of bubonic plague on his way to see his true love in Scarborough. He asks a passerby if he is going there because he is now too sick to complete his journey. He now wants him to collect herbs from that fair that were believed to fight off the black death to possibly save him. He ultimately believes he will die, so he asks him to relay a message to his true love there. To give her an impossible task so it will keep her distracted and hopeful that one day they will reunite and not have to accept the fact that she has lost her true love. Then he wants his love to give him an equal task, so that he doesn't have to deal with the inevitable fact that he will die and lose their love. In some versions, she gives him the same type of tasks. I wonder is she telling the messenger or the singer? If she is telling the messenger, why does she not go in person? Is she dying as well and wants to extend the same courtesy? This song is very powerfull and shows how life can be neutral to mercy. I dont believe the lyrics mean a simple test of love between 2 squabbling lovers. It probably wouldn't have been preserved and carried through time unless it has a deeper impact. Life has a way of incorporating important messages in popular forms of art that stand the test of time. Side notes: Scarborough Fair existed during the same time frame as both major plagues. Sage, Rosemary, and Tyme were belived to fight Bubonic plague and the smells associated with the dying then. The second Great Plague was around Spring to Summer of 1665, peak deaths were Sept of that year. The fair was held from Aug through Sept each year and attracted visitors from all over. It may be a possibility of irony that the place to get herbs to fight the disease, was also the place that spread it the most. Some believe the earliest versions of this song are inspired by the Elfin Knight, which can be traced back to around the 1660s to 1670. Just my thoughts.

@Percybethshiper 4 жыл бұрын

I feel like it’s sung from the point of view of a young woman that maybe doesn’t really want to marry a certain man. Or maybe she really does. But it’s like a hard to get song. He’s got to fulfill all of these things before she’ll marry him. I’m not sure. But my souls loves it.

@TheFolkRevivalProject 3 жыл бұрын

@andrel.g.schmitz7827 4 жыл бұрын

For me the lyric and the music is atemporall

@TheFolkRevivalProject 3 жыл бұрын

@georgefromgreece4119 2 жыл бұрын

Modes weren't invented by Byzantines, but by ancient Greeks. Actually, they weren't even invented by them, just distinguished, categorized and systematized. They have been thoroughly used by pretty much all ancient nations.

@Astolof_ChangE_Felix_Saber Жыл бұрын

You are Amazing 😣 Thank You

@sylwianiemiec9230 3 жыл бұрын

Thank you for your effort!

@ivanj.conway9919 10 ай бұрын

I have to say that the Simon and Garfunkel version is by far, the best.

@chrislyne377 10 ай бұрын

Their version is Martin Carthy's arrangement. They thought his version was just the traditional version and essentially copied it. An innocent mistake but they acknowledge theirs as a cover of his now.

@binkwillans5138 4 ай бұрын

Oh whither do ye fare, and what is that ye bear? Said the false knight to the child on the road. Oh, nowhere do I fare, and nothing do I bear!... . said the small child, only seven years old.

@jackayers4955 2 жыл бұрын

The melody reminds me of House of the Rising Sun, which was also a British folk song.

@ZarahTy 5 жыл бұрын

Can anyone suggest a song that has a rich history like this?

@TheHangingWood 5 жыл бұрын

There's this song I did episode 2 of this video on kzbin.info/www/bejne/eGPGZKGJjbCVbKc

@EzekielPrellus 5 жыл бұрын

Greensleeves comes to mind -- 16th century

@gregor-samsa 4 жыл бұрын

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heute_hier,_morgen_dort

@gregor-samsa 4 жыл бұрын

European anthem especially the text written long before (a poem) by Schiller. Here are some Japanese fans of both. By the way: they sing in perfect German pronunciation. Some music just touches on space and time ....... IMHO another reason not to leave the EU. Maybe it was never translated properly and that's why... kzbin.info/www/bejne/jmfWZ4yBobmjnNk

@TheFolkRevivalProject 3 жыл бұрын

@dollcefina 2 жыл бұрын

10:45 ~ There's no audio for the 1960 Shirley Collins version. Was it copystruck?

@Philosophy42DaysUth 3 жыл бұрын

I love Bob Dylan's rewrite, "'Girl from North Country"

@TheHangingWood 3 жыл бұрын

He was a serial old Enlgish folk song rewriter. He re-wrote the medieval tune Nottamun Town as Masters of War too.

@eleni1968 3 жыл бұрын

The fact there is a North American version, likely from the Appalachian Mts., seems to imply that the Scottish-Irish-English immigrants brought this song with them here to the US and possibly knew some variants in the lyrics which might support the idea of the 3+ versions of the melody.???? Or perhaps the lyrics travel BUT remain relatively the same and are retro-fitted to a well known folk song melody for the regions they were sung in. BUT that's not new. You can hear that throughout Europe especially the Balkans and especially in Greece. The problem with older cultures, unlike the US which is still a new country that was born old, is that there are so many layers of history with European countries [especially when there are wars & plagues] and people travel, make it difficult to identify the origins of some content in folk songs and ballads. To think that folk songs are static, fixed in a certain time, region & style is not realistic. IDK. I think the purpose for regional folk music to survive is in its very ability to adapt and change to the people singing these songs in their respective regions & hopefully to be continued to be sung every generation. I defer to "Green Sleeves". WHat about that??? mUch has been written & debated about that. I don't think there isn't much difference.

@TheFolkRevivalProject 3 жыл бұрын

@bryanirving2422 Жыл бұрын

It's about a bloke, who can't get anything together for himself asking a woman to do it for him.

@67shako 3 жыл бұрын

A perfect song for a yokai cat that throws bodies into the fires of hell

@irithylloldman6526 3 жыл бұрын

wow bruh I wasn't excepting an Orin reference here

@citizenofearth2012 8 ай бұрын

The True Story of “Scarborough Fair” and "The Elfin Knight" - with 30 historical recordings kzbin.info/www/bejne/l5XPeZp8rcmifNk

@austin1776 3 жыл бұрын

Excellent work. Thank you very much. But why not mention of Simon and Garfunkel's version?

@TheHangingWood 3 жыл бұрын

There are multiple more versions before Simon and Gerfunkel's version. Just to get to them I would have to double the length of the vid.

@TheFolkRevivalProject 3 жыл бұрын

@sentimentalcircuscurator 10 ай бұрын

Actually, there was this story I heard once online, back when google didnt suck (bleep!). There was this entire folk tale around it. I was interested for the "parsley, sage, rosemary and thyme" part. Because it sounded a lot like swedish folk songs, were, the herbs have both individual meaning, just by themselves, but also by their use. "När rågen är mogen", a swedish folk song, is another example (it has nothing to do with folktales though). The story, in a very VERY shortened version, was about a maiden in a dilemma. A very powerful being from another world, some sort of dark elve, I believe had fallen in love with the human maiden despite, as the song mentions already having a wife and many sons. She wasnt in love, but ABSOLUTELY TERRIFIED. Because this wasnt jaust an "other" but an other with great powers. Which had been demonstrated. HOWEVER. Even a powerful darkelve king must obey their own rules. And the young maiden was very wise and knowledgeable. So she made the original song, a spell for resisting his powers and charms and spells. Because he tried, oh how he tried. She listed all the things she said no to, and all the WAYS IN WHICH SHE REFUSED to let his influence into both her house and bed,in repetetive verses, with herbs that also banished unwanted magical influence. she probably made a potion or ate the original combination of herbs as well, to counteract things. Its quite possible she gave him impossible tasks, in the beginning too. But I think he mangaed those, and so, in a last resort she made THIS, or rather a much longer song, that THIS is based on. The version I saw back then, was MUCH longer. And a bit "stiffer" in form. But with more details and really old language, english but like really old english. But that was probs not the "entirely correct" version either, just the one earliest written down. I dont remember where it was, and there has been so much re-adjusting and effery with google that Ill probs never find it again. I know people have issues with Marianne Faithful singing the song, but I actually LOVE her version.

@sentimentalcircuscurator 10 ай бұрын

Oh and the version I saw ? was written with HER as the MAIN "teller" of the story. But it was oddly written, so it seemed HE was in part telling it too. As if he was trying to "gain ground" on her even within the song... but Im swedish and that might just me missunderstanding old english form. I dond even fully understand OLD SWEDISH, my own language origins, even if I can still make a qualified guess, because of the special way swedish "works" altogether. Maybe a bit of "The old cruelty" (folk song layers and symbolization) weaved into it as well ? Ah well. Who knows ?

@Lucas-q2l5e 4 ай бұрын

I tought the music in the begin was Scarborough fair...

@robinrubendunst869 3 жыл бұрын

Would this be a marketing song that an herbalist would sing while selling their goods at the market? Like in the musical “Oliver!” when all the hawkers (dairy maids, vegetable carts, flower girls) entered the square calling people out to come buy their produce, flowers, have their knives sharpened, etc.?

@TheHangingWood 3 жыл бұрын

Folklorists research tends to see it lyrically developing in stages over the centuries as the lyrics changed. A Pre-Christianised version where a woman meets and Elven Knight and wants to have sex with him and he gives her a set of impossible tasks to do before he will allow her. The Christianized version roles are reversed the Elven knight want sex with a women and she sets him impossibl;e tasks to avoid it, the Parsly, Sage Rosemary and Tyme reference being added as it was believed in medieval times that herbs warded of evil spirits. Then a later version, perhaps taking on the name of Fair as Fairs was where boys and girls went to meat each over from the 1600 onwards. All reference to a elf knight dropped and it being a simple lover's songs.

@klanghold1 3 жыл бұрын

Trank you. Interesting

@lanaa6230 4 жыл бұрын

What instrument is this?

@tahajula2829 4 жыл бұрын

Guitar

@dimethaltryptamine1 Жыл бұрын

Authentic Dorian mode imo Ps How do you know The Beatles did a Dorian melody modal accidentally on Elenor Rigby?

@shahi007mk1.0 Жыл бұрын

Thinking of what the poet had inspired to write the song... heartbroken or long distance from loved one or the love of a special region or hometown??? Wish we could find out about his story, but unfortunately no name of the poet... But your research about the song and presentation is impressive...

@Zazzauser 4 жыл бұрын

Why is Whitby/Moat Williams version in 3/4 and not in 6/8?

@TheFolkRevivalProject 3 жыл бұрын

@Astolof_ChangE_Felix_Saber Жыл бұрын

Scarborough Fair Tamaru Yamada Lyrics X Kara

@jakehammond12345 4 жыл бұрын

I have no idea about music of this age but applying some logic it seems that the songis actually a modern creation. All of the evidence in this video suggests that . UNLESS .... the earliest recorded versions are more elaborate and are themselves corruptions of the original which was actually more like the crystallised modern version we know . I personally doubt this and suggest that the eery feel , ' medieval ' sound and Dorian mode are very persuasive but not actually evidence in any way.

@TheFolkRevivalProject 3 жыл бұрын

@andrewwigglesworth3030 Жыл бұрын

Dorian mode is no argument at all since this mode is pretty ubiquitous in British and Irish "minor sounding" folk tunes. The other thing that the author of this video fails to understand is that Byzantine/church/mediaeval Dorian mode is absolutely NOT the same as the modern Dorian mode used in Scarborough Fair and other British and Irish folk tunes.

@DamnDealDone 2 жыл бұрын

The song Varg Vikernes wishes he wrote.

@lorencalfe6446 Ай бұрын

the evolved version sounds best. Earlier ones sounded more cheery and generic.

@leonasnake 3 жыл бұрын

👀

@breakfast917 Жыл бұрын

This tune is relatively modern and was based on a Paul Simon song.

@scottkleyla7752 3 жыл бұрын

Graduate a class known origin

@gristlevonraben 3 жыл бұрын

It seems to me that the lyrics do not match the jaunty music of some of the singers. I would have to say that the sadder versions fit it better and are probably more original. But maybe, the song's only meant to be a joke, and so the music was always silly, but then the lyrics would be more silly. Sometimes, like after wars, the sadness seeps into the culture and changes how we sing songs, how we perceive them. Britain lost millions of people in ww2, millions! Singing Scarborough fair about a lost true love would be heartbreaking to them, not silly.

@andrewwigglesworth3030 Жыл бұрын

Sorry, as a matter of fact, Britain (UK) did not lose millions of lives during WW2. Every life matters, but our losses in WW2 were well below half a million. As for silly songs, jokes etc. I think you need to consider a bit more about this. It is perfectly normal to make jokes, sing "silly" songs in (or even about) serious situations. There is nothing odd in the fact that comedy songs (and comedy itself) continued during and after WW2. I have to add, what has this got to do with the song Scarborough Fair other than the fact that it is evidently not an entirely serious song?

@gristlevonraben Жыл бұрын

@@andrewwigglesworth3030 sorry, I was mistaken, I must of seen a documentary about both wars, "More than one million British military personnel died during the First and Second World Wars, with the First World War alone accounting for 886,000 fatalities. Nearly 70,000 British civilians also lost their lives, the great majority during the Second World War."

@andrewwigglesworth3030 Жыл бұрын

Well researched, some of the comments have said here. Sadly, this is not true. The weasel words "some scholars have suggested" sets a pattern. This is just guff and wind. There is no evidence that the antecedents of this 19th century song extend beyond the 17th century. This is just wishful thinking based upon no evidence whatsoever. "many folk singers sing it without music" ... what? How can someone sing without music, ie an air to the song they are singing? This is nonsense. Next, Dorian mode. Sorry, but the video-maker fell flat on their face with this one. Byzantine/church/mediaeval Dorian mode is NOT the same as modern Dorian mode. Please look it up, this is not esoteric knowledge. Modern Dorian mode is a diatonic scale starting from the second note of a major scale and using the notes of the major scale. eg. E Dorian starts on the second note of the D major scale (E), and then goes up through the notes of the D major scale. This is definitively (ie. by definition) NOT the same as the Byzantine/church/mediaeval Dorian mode. The video-maker implies that Dorian mode is something unusual in English folk music; which is the absolute opposite of the case. The vast majority of song airs and dance tunes in English folk music that sound like they are in a "minor key", are in Dorian mode. This includes thousands of melodies. Dorian mode (the modern diatonic version as in Scarborough Fair) is not just common in English (and British and Irish music generally) it is pervasive and ubiquitous. I know that I'm hammering this point home, but if you actually investigate British and Irish folk music properly, or play it extensively, then you'd know this fact about Dorian mode. If you just see some words on a computer screen and then apply your ignorant assumptions you might come up with what this video maker has done. This is literally a case of "they don't know what they're talking about." On the tune itself. Yes, tunes did exist with the songs being sung. Francis Kidson noted and published a tune, Ewan MacColl noted and published a tune, as did others for related songs. This claim of a song (or, rather, people singing songs) that had no tune is frankly bizarre. I could go into the recordings, but the lack of knowledge is still apparent here, along with the connexions between people recording in the 1950s. Sorry to be blunt, but this is pretty poor stuff being presented as somehow "educational."