Scarlett Johansson Calls Out OpenAI Over the Suspiciously Familiar Voice of ChatGPT

Do we treat political affiliation like a religion? Which parts of our identity are based off factual belief vs. imaginary belief? This week, Max talks to Professor Neil Van Leeuwen about the difference between thinking and believing, the power of groupish thought, and the similarities between religious creeds and political ideologies. But first! Jon and Max break down the drama between Scarlet Johansson and OpenAI, pick apart the TikTok blockout, and suspend their disbelief that a close friend of the pod is…on Survivor?! Will he love it or leave it?
CHAPTERS
0:00 Intro
2:08 Scarlett Johansson Takes on OpenAI
8:35 TikTokers Block Celebs Over Gaza
17:27 Jon Lovett Takes the Offline Challenge on Survivor 47
25:14 Neil Van Leeuwen Interview
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Crooked believes that we need a better conversation about politics, culture, and the world around us-one that doesn’t just focus on what’s broken, but what we can do to fix it. At a time when it’s increasingly easy to feel cynical or hopeless, former Obama staffers Jon Favreau, Jon Lovett, and Tommy Vietor have created a place where people can have sane conversations that inform, entertain, and inspire action. In 2017 they started Crooked with Pod Save America-a no-bullshit conversation about politics. Since then, we continue to add shows, voices, and opportunities for activism, because it’s up to all of us to do our part to build a better world. That’s it. End of mission.
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[@Rabbotti]

LOVETT has WON both the OFFLINE CHALLENGE and TERMINALLY ONLINE! Legend!

[@iheartdiscgolf]

Those poor people on that island... did CBS really think this one through.. I mean Lovett on Survivor.. I mean the goal is the be the last one standing.

[@anniewilliams3125]

​@@iheartdiscgolfLovett's only plan is undoubtedly to give monologues with horrible jokes and try to convince the others to laugh for him in the hopes that they'll all want to get off the island... That's also probably his only hope of getting past at least the first couple of episodes 🙃

[@iamheatheranne]

Lovett said it's a historical election year? Hold my beer, I'll be off the grid and on Survivor? 😂

[@wmr5143]

He's already done so much, I'd do the same tbh 😂

[@nicknaque2261]

Might save his mental health.

[@minderbean]

When I googled it all the headlines said “Lovett from Pod Save America”, so maybe he will get some unexpecting voters on board with his fabulous personality and humor. All of a sudden people who don’t pay attention to politics are now. His appearance on Kimmel got me to check out the Pod.

[@joannh.3061]

​@@minderbean Yes, I agree with you. As people get to know him, He'll help grow Pod Save America, and all of Crooked Media, when we need it the most. very smart!

[@Vulcanerd]

Lovett just snapped and was like, “I can’t take anymore! Get me outta here!!” 😂🤣

[@stephaniewells8759]

Alternatives to legislating abortion bans, to encourage people to have those babies: Univeral daycare, one-year paid maternity leave, medicare covering obstetric and post-natal care, free school lunches. You know, like other industrialized countries!

[@5amiann]

Remember when we used to pretend to be an industrial country?

[@laurenlundgren252]

The ones pushing anti-abortion and now anti-contraception laws don't give a shit about children, they just want to dominate women and under-served populations.

[@mjinba07]

We should have all those universal benefits for better supporting families. But when a woman doesn't want a baby, or can't handle having one for any number of reasons, the child, the woman, and the whole of society pays the consequences if she's forced to carry it. We've already discovered that.

[@amyheckathorn7172]

Yes! Remove the obstacles that make motherhood so difficult! Make US life more on par with the rest of the Western world. Actually care about women’s emotional, psychological, and economic lives when enacting public policy.

[@NoSacredCowFla]

I was raised to be catholic only because my mother wanted me to stay in my great uncle's will. I started questioning when I was 8. Asked the priest where god was before it created heaven and earth. The answer wasn't satisfactory for an 8 year old making me agnostic. Catholic high school made me an atheist. Moving to Floriduh made me outspoken about it.

[@NoSacredCowFla]

And for anyone curious the priest's response was "god always was, god always is and god always will be" pure drivel.

[@trevormccabe946]

I can totally relate. I knew at a young age that church was ridiculous. My parents continued to drag me there until I was in my teens. I'm going to be 49 this summer and my mom still likes to get her digs in about me not going.

[@mjinba07]

I'm in my 60's and after V2 when I heard what was actually being said during mass, what our prayers and responses saying, I was out. Still had to go because my mother was devout, but internally I was not on board. Catechism and events in our parish did nothing but enhance my opinion. Same for my four siblings. Something can be said, though, for maturing past the black and white thinking of childhood. I'll never be religious and certainly not Christian. But it works for many people. There are evils and blessings to it as there are in every organized human endeavor.

[@nicknaque2261]

I had the same 8-yr-old experience. Father Pat's explanation sparked a lifelong curiosity about the concept of infinity.

[@sagi.r]

"There's our boy!" I love the round robin pod tour idea for when Lovett returns, especially an Offline Challenge followup

[@saras1487]

Perhaps the reason older people take vaccines is we remember people who had polio, measles, mumps, etc.

[@slianyong7550]

"Blocking a celebrity," is that like "thoughts and prayers?"

[@VictoriaKnits]

What a great discussion with Neil Van Leeuwen. Fascinating stuff.

[@boo8bie4eva]

How ironic to hear you read ads from companies that chose to work with u based on ur follower/engagement count while simultaneously acting like unfollowing celebs doesnt hurt their bottom line.

[@ethanstump]

losing 5 percent of 500,00 dollars means your losing 25,00, and you have 475,000. losing 5 percent of 500 million means your losing 25 million and you have 475 million. is it hurting their bottom line? yes, and the exact same percentage even. however, the wealth already there is at such as scale to realize that even if they were to lose 50 percent of it, they would still have 250 million, still more than the majority of the population, combined. yes, celebs are going to celeb and act like arriving at the red carpet in a used tesla versus a new rimac "means the world to me", but for most of the world, even having a used tesla to go to the local grocery store would be a step up from the barely running ford that they have.

[@iamheatheranne]

"Normalize mid life chrisis." 😂😂😂

[@spunkinator5000]

The best day of my childhood was when I was 10 and my mom asked my brother and I if we wanted to keep going to church. I didn’t know not going was an option. My brother and I immediately said we never wanted to go again then played N64 for the rest of the day.

[@SilortheBlade]

@@goodnessthentruth I found it very insightful. Children do not naturally believe in something. They have to be conditioned to, as they aren't old enough to understand yet. But it is very easy to indoctrinate children to the point that they are unable to question that belief as adults.

[@lawrencetchen]

Wow best day ever

[@maurachapman4179]

Never given that choice 😢

[@robynmclaren4528]

@@maurachapman4179 great mum!

[@ethanstump]

if your lucky enough (most people aren't) this also happens with work. (no, i'm not talking about unemployment, but FIRE)

[@SHIRLEI777]

I have a perfect thing for you to do with Lovett… “The Bubble” was a British television quiz show… the show was canceled forever ago. You show him weird news and have him guess if it is true or fake news… maybe you can even get David Mitchell to host it… lol my favorite British person…

[@scoobydoo3928]

Lovett is gonna get ripped on Survivor. Just watch. Food is easy to quit when there is none.

[@mjinba07]

Emaciated isn't the same as ripped.

[@lhoward9593]

I think he has been on Ozempic. He has gotten much thinner recently.

[@dawnfmEnthusiast]

20:00 Max is effortlessly hilarious 😆😆

[@justinaclayburn2248]

Jon at 20:19 “Coulda’ bought a car” forgetting that Lovett had a Tesla he loved and then Elon was Elon 😂🤣

[@MelissaElbert-yt2hp]

Great conversation! Helps to make sense of so much of the senselessness!

[@antispeedrun]

me, a language nerd, to myself: does he spell it "pIrrational" [I don't have subscript characters here but I'm assuming the p is subscripted] me: well I'm obviously just gonna pronounce that as a whole word rather than [letter][word]-combo, "pier-ational" me: NO WAIT!! It's about groupish beliefs! PEER-RATIONAL!! welp, that's what I'm calling it from now on, "peerrational thinking" lol

[@dross24MA]

LOL 😅

[@minderbean]

Lovett is door-knocking via TV

[@MRICCI8]

Fascinating interview with professor Van Leeuwen, I'm excited to read his book. Thank you!

[@elanabryanwest]

Just purchased Neil's book. Great episode today. Thanks!

[@silverXnoise]

A more commonly held and longer term group belief is the ideological assertion that abortion is “murder”, and yet so few self identified pro-life individuals respond to the existence of abortion as if it were literal murder.

[@tammystockley-loughlin7680]

Doctors were murdered back in the 80s, and their killers were prosecuted. That kept most from acting the same. Now folks would have to avoid all the security cameras, not just at work but doorbells too. Positive vibes from New Hampshire, remember to be kind to each other and yourself during these trying times.

[@SilortheBlade]

@@tammystockley-loughlin7680 Sorry to break it to you Tammy, but most people won't murder a doctor even if they think abortion is murder. Not because of prosecutions, but because most people aren't murderers. And the OP is bang on. Most people who make these statements don't really believe it. It became a political car for the dog to chase, and give religious leaders power. Of course no the dog has caught the car and doesn't know what to do with it, and those religious leaders really regret roe v wade was overturned.

[@katboss4886]

Lovett’s Pray, Eat, Love. I am here for it. I may actually watch Survivor for the first time ever!!

[@malonesinclaire9201]

I have never been happier listening to people who do not believe in the illusion of a god. I think of people who are religious as children still walking around with their imaginary friend for years now. When are those who do not believe in in this nonsense are heard on mainstream media.

[@robertawalsh2995]

When do anti-zealots just become a different kind of zealot?

[@dazedneptune]

There’s no problem not believing in gods, but thinking religious people are inferior is honestly shitty of you. The same humans who believed in Zeus Buddha and Allah made revolutions in math, science, physics, and art. Many scientists today are also religious. Disrespecting billions of people just because they understand life different isn’t cool.

[@ValentinaOsinski]

​@@dazedneptuneso apt. Especially since our perceptions are so limited, that anyone who claims that what we can only prove scientifically is the answer is demonstrating their own limitations.

[@VirginiaBronson]

@@dazedneptune they didn’t say they were inferior. They just said they’re holding on to a childlike imaginary friend, which they are. That’s a factual statement. Holding on to an imaginary friend IS dumb, whether or not those people also do smart things from time to time.

[@SilortheBlade]

@@dazedneptune You read a lot into the OP's statement. Like volumes that wasn't there. And I hope you have the same response to the majority of religious people who actually do think people who think differently than them are inferior. I don't really blame most of them as they have been indoctrinated into that line of thought, but it doesn't excuse that behavior.

[@thomthom6268]

I'm agnostic. To me, the existence of a God is unknowable. But I also don't think prayer is wasted. I think it always helps the one praying. If it helps the target, so much the better. I'll "keep a good thought" for those I care for. And if someone prays for me, thank you. It don't confront me [sic]. At minimum, it means you wish me well.

[@SilortheBlade]

Do you believe in a god? No? Then you are an atheist. Do you know there is a deity? No? Then you agnostic on the subject. Theism is a question of belief, gnostism is a question of knowledge. We get so caught up in labels that we forget words have a meaning in order to communicate. And sorry to be the one to break this to you, but when a stranger says they are praying for you, it doesn't usually mean they wish you well.

[@nancychandler3673]

​@@SilortheBladeLol. True. ✅️

[@ethanstump]

and why i'm an atheist is i've had "patriarchal blessings" over toothaches that later turn into infections that later turn into fillings at best, and extractions at worst. it's not the prayer itself or what it says about god, but how it's often used as a catchall even in inappropriate moments to truly misfortunate affects that were empirically unnecessary. and i'm not even knocking the power of optimism and empathy here, merely that many older priests or clergy of any sort either hype up their authority and expertise, or downplay the expertise of others, to truly comedic and tragic levels. it's not god i'm worried about, but his followers.

[@fouziaafshari]

Thanks!

[@leeanntripple5792]

Love Jon and Max's discussions always but made me laugh a lot today. And what an interesting interview with the professor!

[@Eddy12383]

Really enjoyed his course on cognitive science and philosophy, tough as hell though

[@TheEclecticKitchen]

I don't know why exactly, but when I saw that first Survivor promo after the season finale, it made me so happy. It still does, and I just laugh like a lunatic. Can't wait.

[@jimmaughan1898]

There's a lot of audiobooks that appear to be read by an AI Nick Offermann. I wonder if he knows?

[@kendomyers]

I feel like I hear a lot of AI Ed Kemper in the free audio book world. When Ed hears about this someone's going to lose their head.

[@SeattleSun2013]

Millions of people who have never heard of John Lovett, will now know John Lovett, and when he comes back, they will hear what he has to say about the Nov 2024 election. ❤️🇺🇸🤩

[@paulhenry8174]

I love the way author thinks and the research it led to.

[@frankmaxwell2052]

I got the game for when Lovett comes back. Get some of the most outrageous headlines from the time he was out and sprinkle in some made up headlines and see if he can pick what’s true and what you made up. That will tell us all a lot about how insane the world is through his answers.

[@Berry_N]

Jon sounding like old man yelling at the clouds with his block celeb rant. As someone much older than he, it was difficult to listen to.

[@IshibashiPandora]

Indeed. And what's more, he's wrong. Blocking a celebrity is tangibly more effective that merely unfollowing them, in which case their content may still be shown to you via other means. The overall decrease in traffic and visibility in an algorithmically dictated paradigm is the whole enchilada. For the host of a network founded on galvanizing real world social change through online reach, education, and organizing, this seemed a profoundly foolish criticism to make.

[@mariaq.8697]

What an ineffective way to motivate young people to listen to your suggestions! I heard someone (Beau?) say that activism needs diversity of tactics, and recommended activists when communicating with other activists to use the improv format of "Yes, and" instead of the usual ego driven "Yes, but [you are doing it wrong]"

[@UEAKCrash]

Right, as much as they preach about reaching out and engaging younger people to get them involved, they sure talk down to them a lot. It blows my mind that these types of people just seem to fall face first into the same mistakes every election. You aren't going to chastise people, who are just trying to do *something* they feel is in their power, into joining your movement. It's honestly very disheartening to see how out of touch they are, and makes me much more worried about this next election, as these are likely to be the people MORE in touch in liberal politics than the average.

[@girlysolarburns]

This is the third time I’m hearing Jon Lovett is on Survivor and I’m starting to think this might really be happening

[@sonyawor]

21:27 you should do a Seth Meyers version of A Closer Look. When the writers strike ended, he did a 30 min long Closer Look, so, something like that episode 😅

[@jgray2718]

This discussion about symbolic beliefs is incredibly helpful. This is an idea I've had for years but never knew how to talk about: conservatives believe so many things that are clearly not true. Intelligent, clear-eyed conservatives "lie" to themselves all the time _(liberals probably do too, but I'm a liberal so I'm likely too close to see it)._ So many conservative policies/talking points are actually symbolic beliefs. I genuinely have trouble finding many that _aren't. (Abortion, tax cuts, military spending, and guns, the four constants of conservative politics for as long as I can remember, are the only ones I can think of off hand)._ Trump's inauguration crowd size. Obama's birthplace. Trickle down economics. A huge number of Covid related topics. "Liberals hate America". Hunter Biden. Literally every culture-war-of-the-week.** And thousands more. Conservative politicians don't need their voters to _believe_ their talking points, they just have to _say_ they believe them and _vote_ like they believe them. It's why we say conservatives don't care about policy and that they're not a governing party - they're so deep in make-believe land that facts barely matter to them. **: The reason conservative media drops the culture war of the week after a few days or weeks is that it stops having an impact. People don't factually believe it _and they get tired of pretending._ Some of these things are partially rooted in reality _(Hunter Biden)_ and can turn from symbolic beliefs into factual beliefs, but most just die off after doing some damage _(drag queen story time)._

[@sonyawor]

44:20 in my view, the purpose of imagination in an evolutionary perspective, is this is how innovation happened. For example, ancient man saw fire happen when lightning struck a tree, so they imagined that there was a mechanism for creating fire without lightning and figured out a way to do it. A closer example with religious implications, is Galileo imagined that the earth revolved around the sun and then figured out how it could be so. We know in the second example that Galileo was persecuted for going against the grain but society gained from it. In the first example, I think it’s easy to imagine that the person trying to make fire looked like the crazy person until they were able to do it, and it benefited society. This could be an example of epigenetics at play.

[@nicknaque2261]

Excellent observations

[@californiadreamer5968]

The religious imagination theory is interesting. Having been religious most of my life, I saw the benefits of belonging to a positive and supportive group that provided security, moral and ethical education, and emotional support. Belief in a higher power is an effective motivator for doing good in the world and sincere prayer is effective in dealing with anxiety and sleep issues. I wish I still believed it.

[@ethanstump]

it's interesting to me about these symbolic values/signals/beliefs "feeling true" without often having hard evidence. if we think about the types of people who have hard evidence, they are often people who have studied extensively about such things, which often come at a cost and a sort of distance, who we then listen to. yes there's the "microphone in front of your face" belief as he pointed out, but there's so much information that even if we could buy the microscope, do the experiment for ourselves, it's only a small portion who actually do. times that by how many fields of study are out there, the multidisciplinary fields, the fields no longer considered rigorous, the new developments versus the standard textbook, and it makes sense of how we are aware of many things that we only tangentially know, but don't really have a solid reason to question profoundly. if it's working for you, if your life seems to be going pretty well, and your not really getting pushback, you might have a thought about it here and there, but your already busy buying those new shoes, doing that new assignment, or cooking that niche meal. also, just because it's symbolic doesn't mean that verification can't come later, like thinking that a certain policy is going to have a certain affect, and then it does. that's what a hypothesis is, is an assumption that is testable, but hasn't quite been tested yet. yes there's obviously the ones that are off and can quite well be shown to be off, but then there's the "good question, i'm not sure that's been tested yet, let me get back to you on that." these symbolic beliefs often run on guesswork, where sometimes it's pretty easy to show how someone could get it wrong, but then there are still some areas not well studied, and for obvious reasons are quite tricky to study, and only a couple of highly resourced groups can study it. if your part of a low resourced group, that then introduces intergroup dynamics into the mix here. throw in known group prejudices or personal biases, and it's quite easy to see how that game of telephone plays out. whether facts get made or discovered, not everyone is privy to that process, nor has to for it to propagate. in some ways that's a good thing, and in others a right devil. if your in a war zone with info coming in quickly, you've already done the hard work or know that others have done the hard work to verify the truthfulness of any given data point. but if it's just a family gathering with an uncle you haven't seen in a while half remembering some anecdote a colleague told him, you know that verification work can usually be done at a later date, and it's not all that important you get it right the first time. usually. he's told the story several times already, and it's only on knowing that some detail might become relevant ( such as someone else entering the field and you want to help them) that you really focus in.

[@MasterOfDarkness42069]

I don't believe in God because I haven't been given good reason to believe in God. Why should I believe a thing without good reason?

[@naomifurukawa]

Millions of people watch survivor! What if he convince people on his tribe about his view of the election ? I think it might be good. He is pretty level headed and knows how to speak to people. I’m looking forward to how this turns out.

[@MurdrBurger]

The collective belief in the imagined, aka faith, is not a virtue, it is in fact the cause of most human suffering.

[@snosister]

Did you NOT see the Black Mirror Episode??

[@carvercordes]

I don't think that me saying "I don't think God exists" is any nicer or meaner sounding than "I don't believe God exists". I don't "believe" it makes a difference either. I find that church folks are fine with person saying you're a non-believer. Many of them use that language when talking about those of us that they feel can be persuaded.

[@carvercordes]

Also, the language I use when asked about my beliefs should not shake someone else's faith. Factual information is dismissed in their beliefs so why would what I "think" or "believe" matter to that?

[@diaphanouswaffle]

Thanks for this discussion. I enjoy learning more about the intersections of neuroscience with sociology, technology, communication, relationships, psychology, interpretation, perception, intellect, and emotion.

[@wierdo82]

This is a good philosophical question with a guest who feels like a hack. Sad for us out there who think good philosophy is valuable.

[@Asbg90]

I know! Like when Max pushed back on this guy's theory and gave an example within politics, and the guest actually said "well thats why i focused on religion in my book, it's a much cleaner fit to the theory than politics" What?? You can't just pick and choose in science, if your theory breaks down when applied to other examples, it's not a good theory! I couldn't believe he actually said that with a straight face

[@ShulaMG]

Who’s taking care of Lovett’s dog?

[@KnialPiper]

Vote!! 🗳️

[@sdh42]

Religious folks aren't walking around saying "I think god exists." So, as an atheisit, I don't BELIEIVE that I should soften my language to make others feel more comfortable. In fact, when relgious folks come to my door, I now say "No thank you, I'm atheist" instead of "No thank you. I'm not religious."

[@skyisfalling8173]

Proud atheist

[@robertbritt6134]

One more step to take… Anti-theism; the active battle against religious grooming.

[@MichaelLochlann]

@@robertbritt6134 yeah it's seen as such a good thing in society but it's incredibly dangerous to have any sort of dogma where you aren't allowed to question it. Much less when it has a history of violence and oppression and leads to constant, unresolvable war.

[@TheVid54]

Absolutely - religion and the God myth are insidiously dangerous. I give a middle-finger up to all theists trying to minister people in any form of religion or superstition. I don't take that kind of crap from family members, let alone the rest of the world. You can have plenty of friends without getting along on that level with anyone. Condescend to Christians whenever they confront you!

[@robertbritt6134]

@@MichaelLochlannTo teach the young to surrender reason and curiosity to imaginary beings is a form of child abuse. How many great minds have been stunted by childhood indoctrination. How many suicide bombers would we have without these evil fantasies?

[@TheVid54]

Absolutely - religion and the God myth are insidiously dangerous. I give a middle-finger up to all theists trying to minister people in any form of religion of superstition. I don't take that kind of crap from family members, let alone the rest of the world. You can have plenty of friends without getting along on that level with anyone.

[@macplow2234]

I'd be pissed if I was the actor who actually did the voice over. Maybe she happens to think Scarjo sounds like her.

[@mteacher9811]

The probability logic is really taking me back.

[@gingerhipster]

One of the reasons everything is a big gross mess is that "the physicalist paradigm of science is complete" is a symbolic belief and people don't realize it. "Everything is energy", on the other hand, is not a symbolic belief. That's actually just a fact. Things are very complicated and everyone has biases and hardly anyone spends more time talking about their biases than other peoples biases.

[@timseytiger9280]

Ha ha, I listen to you guys on double speed, but most of youtube too

[@jonasking3670]

I had to check the description because the title and intro were so different from each other. I thought maybe the AI discussion would somehow morph into a discussion about whether an AI could be a god (or something).

[@ZandoFox]

Yeah Offline's two segments often feel wildly incongruous lol

[@b991228]

Tom Hanks has been using my voice and likeness throughout his life. The law suit will be following.

[@MisterEMystery]

Yay! I won’t have to listen to Lovett’s whiny voice for awhile! I can enjoy falling asleep to Jon Favreau’s monotone voice, the only reason I normally listen to this channel.

[@user-et9cn6li2h]

The amygdala cannot tell the difference between real reality and what is happening a screen.

[@GlassSpiider]

Hell yeah. Podcaster Battle Royale.

[@wallacerigby4393]

The woman who did the voice sounds like Scar Jo. She’s real. People can sound like celebrities.

[@thedahkterizzin8831]

Just say you're not interested in any religion. I'm a values man. 😊😂

[@bountybill]

Scaredketchup is doing some pretty outrageous AI political satire of Trump and pretty much everyone else.

[@luv2charlie]

Went to a political conference and someone shared Scared Ketchup with me and I shared Crooked Media with them!

[@Dragonstar13]

Maybe to bridge the gap between artists and ai Tech companies, INCLUDE THEM IN THE DEVELOPMENT INSTEAD OF SCRAPPING THEIR WORK.

[@apocraphy2012]

Wait is Mark Burnett still partially producing Survivor? Is Lovett out on a deep steal to try and get Trump files? 🤣

[@GrahamDore]

You'll had an episode a couple of weeks ago that talked about political hobbiism and I actually really think that what this professor of neuroscience and philosophy has talked about here might explain some of that phenomenon as well

[@GrahamDore]

I think the personal internal value of the group of beliefs is self reassurance about your belonging need being met even when you can't get that need met from others

[@LelahWells]

Hi!

[@wmr5143]

I dunno, y'all seem salty about Lovett doing his thing and living his life - at the end of the day tho him being on Survivor is only going to make your show WAAAAAY more popular and then get ur message to more ppl lol

[@noreenconstantine4612]

The problem with religion is that their followers insist theirs is the only valid religion and all others are wrong

[@CourtneyCha0s]

Lovett is gonna get a winner's tshirt right?

[@stephanrahan]

I would have prefered if they gave it the voice of the assistant from ghostbusters

[@minotaur44]

27:15 Something that becomes interesting about the play-doh analogy is that you have the expected understanding of pretend, with instant negative reinforcement with the look of "What are you doing" if they go too far (Trying to eat the 'food'). Consider instead a fraternity with all the alcohol, boundary pushing, and rough housing involved then recruiting more people who weren't present when the in-jokes were formed and also compete on the one-upping to seek approval. The original rules and tacit understandings start to fall away as each person adds new layers and new tests by majority rule and any reality checks become inherently discouraged until something happens that even the group can't support. Except unlike in a fraternity example where the local chapter can be suspended and everyone knows the people involved, the global movement can just write off the ones who went too far as part of the enemy team and keep pushing other boundaries.

[@minotaur44]

The other layer is that in this frat environment where you have all the fake food (Symbolic Information), it's also the same dining area people get their real food from. It's easier to tell the two apart when you have the obviously fake food, but when you have everything from the very obvious fake food to fake food that is indistinguishable from the real food expect people to choke on some of the fake things.

[@numericalcode]

This convo is hilarious and terrifying

[@curtisevans4100]

"tech companies and creatives"

[@lyledal]

I'm sure the Professor is super smart, but he's not going to convince me that a LOT of people's brains aren't just broken, broken to the point where they can't be fixed.

[@ownyoursxtaylormorganne8551]

The news is guaranteed to be wild and bizarre. You should like: 2 truths and a lie. Was this a quote from trump, a trump loyalists, or a child Make him guess how absurd ish was while he was gone

[@tammystockley-loughlin7680]

Yes. And hopefully we can all laugh at the ridiculous. Positive vibes from New Hampshire, remember to be kind to each other and yourself during these trying times.

[@odinson8761]

I find the concept in this book terrifying

[@tropicallybrewing]

Beliefs are things which disappear the moment everyone stops believing...because there was never any underlying evidence for it

[@TheCerebralMirage]

I'm an atheist and I'm tired that being "Christian" is a prerequisite to be the last line of defense in a secular state

[@wgo523]

I personally don't care about particularly sensitive religious people! I have friends and family who are believers but I think it's a bit silly that "I don't believe God exists" should be taken personally. It's just true. Nothing wrong with being an atheist either, doesn't mean you're an angry rude atheist

[@annor5725]

I think religion is mainly used to gain power over others. Suppose I want to have power over a group of people, how do I go about it? I could say I'm the biggest, the strongest, the most intelligent, so follow me. If I can actually demonstrate these special abilities, then I might be successful. If not, there's still another trick I can use to back up my claim to power. I simply claim that there is an all-powerful being with whom I have a special connection, a kind of big brother. You may not see him, but his actions speak for themselves. Did you see the lightning that struck the tree during the storm yesterday? Well, that was my big, almighty brother. He can get pretty angry. I can appease him. But for that I would need a few cows from you that I can sacrifice to him. Well, and…I have to live too, and if I'm going to do the job for you of appeasing my big brother, then you should be a bit grateful for it and also give me, say, two chickens and a sack of grain for it - as protection money, so to speak. By the way, he told me that he likes this behavior and doesn't like that and that's why we're going to set some rules here: 1. my brother trusts only me and that's why he wants me to be your boss. 2. ...etc. I’m pretty sure that’s how religion was invented.

[@jspres86]

Wow, both halves of this episode (Lovett can speak for itself) reminded me of a book I read recently by Tom Wolfe. The first half dealt with intellectualism and moral indignation, which stems from the idea of feeling moral superiority over minimal knowledge or action taken to address a problem (I blocked this celeb! I feel so good about myself!) As Marshall Macluhan put it, "Moral indignation is a technique used by the idiot to endow integrity." The second half talked about how neuroscience and human knowledge over the years has slowly explained away God. However, since the human brain is hardwired and finite in capability, we will never have the power to comprehend human existence in any complete way. As he says, "I have no way of knowing whether or not God exists, but neither does anybody else."

[@bethchaosdragon7842]

I listen to almost all youtube at 1.5 speed - 2 minutes even is to long to listen to Trump clips.

[@malonesinclaire9201]

I have never felt move free in my life then when l opened my eye and saw all religion I propaganda BS like commercials. They are selling a product, which has nothing based in reality.

[@mjinba07]

The "propaganda" may be bogus but there are very real benefits to belonging to a church and attending services, and it requires lip service to the belief system at the very least. Sadly, there aren't many secular organizations that inspire the same deep level of loyalty, camaraderie and devotion, nor the ease of finding like minded adherents wherever you live.

[@SilortheBlade]

@@mjinba07 It's the social group that is the benefit, but that is improving in secular society.

[@rebeccao8895]

I wish it was possible to copyright my voice and face.

[@preciousroy6079]

Great interview, while it's only one theory it does go a long way towards explaining why people behave so defensively when their imaginary beliefs are challenged, whether it's about crackers and wine or pizza shop pedophiles. One thing this doesn't explore though, and maybe it was a matter of time or just out of scope, is why many people seem predisposed to affirmatively choosing imaginary belief as the explanation for real phenomena i.e. conspiracy theories. A lot of folks genuinely prefer to believe in the fantastical because it brings them some form of emotional satisfaction, and I wonder if it's related to the mechanisms of imaginary belief or if there's a different explanation.

[@7scientist]

What would be illegal about hiring an actress bc she sounds like Scarjo?

[@ZandoFox]

So, did y'all really not know where Lovett was? Or did you officially "not know" but really had an idea, but couldn't talk about it?

[@user-yd9di3kg2j]

Awed? Really? It doesn't even seem that impressive. But it is a young technology that has room to grow. What is impressive is how many companies want me to use their A.I. My guess is that they are desperate for input to legally steal from their users. My stand is: they're going to have to pay me if they want my input. Also, I refuse to wear ugly polo shirts or buy ugly handbags unless they pay me. Why should any of us promote their brand for free? You want me to wear your ugly gear? Pay me. This doesn't seem to be a common opinion.

[@MirnaEJiron]

The fact that you don’t believe does not bother me in the least. But if you attack me as trying to convince me that he doesn’t exist then you have a problem, not me. I speak to people about God all the time that don’t believe in God and I have really good conversations.

[@ssaylor]

What's Professor Neil's book called?

[@robertacomstock3655]

_Religion as Make - Believe: A Theory of Belief, Imagination, and Group Identity_ Swore it would be in transcript, but failed to see it on a skim, then a scan. I heard Max ask and looked in time to see Neil flash the cover at the camera for less time than it takes me to focus. I was busy painting a chair, so didn"t back up for a better look Should have been in the description! Maybe they ran out of file space.

[@kkfox7822]

Yikes. All your sniggering about blocking celebs on TikTok is pretty gross. There is so much more happening here than just blocking celebs. Collectively organising voices to raise awareness and funds for Gaza is phenomenal and - most importantly - it is working. Tiktok users are leveraging the platform - in a variety of intelligent & creative ways - to push for change. It is absolutely in line with BDS principles. Seeing some twit ponce around with $75,000 tickets to a fashion event is revolting especially considering the context we’re seeing it in. Swiping past it is no longer enough.

[@alioxinfree]

14:49 Hey Jon: Boycotting Starbucks is a LABOR thing. It's not about Gaza. The Union is STILL fighting for a contract, buy your coffee elsewhere until there is a signed contract.

[@pamhall1434]

Omg noooo!!! I already avoid listening to Trump now!

[@wendyflores1092]

11:46 My brain works differently, to me, this is just the counterpart of the irrational demand for "condemnation of Hamas" that is seen in the pro-Israel media, people see that they demand condemnation against Hamas as a strategy to move the public opinion in favor of Israel, and are demanding condemnation against Israel's actions and in favor of the people of Palestine. Maybe some do do it for the engagement, but not all, some are simply using the same propaganda method, "how dare you not condemn Israel?!", only on tiktok instead of corporate media. Now, how effective it is as a method to move public opinion, that is another topic 😅😅....

[@CaiRobinson]

to me religion can help with foundations and understandings of the world. I would find my view of this world very limited if i hadnt delve into my spiritual side.

[@ryancappo]

I am sure there are plenty of female voices that they could use, but a lot will sound like Scarlett.

[@captain_context9991]

I dont not think god exists to such a degree that I also refuse to be anti-god. There is so little god in my life that I dont want to be an atheist. Any more than I want to call myself something to demonstrate my belief that the earth is round.

[@robertbritt6134]

Atheism is just virtue signaling. Anti-theism is an active disavowing of a demonstrably dangerous brain disease.

[@CSharpListenSharper]

Can you please explain to me why gaslighting is cool?

[@MirnaEJiron]

If you want people to talk about it, you can’t be condescending about it. And that’s how you’re coming off your condescending.

[@nancychandler3673]

Think= Agnostic Believe =Atheist