NIETZSCHE on TRUTH: What JORDAN PETERSON gets WRONG

Did Nietzsche believe that “Truth ought to serve life”? In fact, in Nietzsche’s works, we find a very different and more nuanced view, in which Nietzsche argues that truth in and of itself is usually harmful to life, and that lies may be needed to support life instead. What public intellectuals such as Dr. Jordan Peterson get right about Nietzsche is often his understanding of the truth as a value contingent on human flourishing, and as referring only to a world of phenomena. But the fatal error in the formulation that “truth ought to serve life” is that the health or life-giving nature of a claim doesn’t actually make it “truer”. In fact, for Nietzsche, the truth value and the life-giving value of a statement must be assessed separately. Oftentimes we find that the truth is harmful to life, and what is life-giving is a lie.
In spite of this, Nietzsche writes that we must search for a life “as a means to knowledge”, and that the Great Liberator for himself was the idea of a life as an experiment and an adventure in truth-seeking. “Here the ways of men divide: if you wish to strive for happiness and peace of the soul then believe. If you wish to be a disciple of truth, then inquire.”
Learn about all this and more in this episode (episode eight) of the Nietzsche podcast. We cover Nietzsche’s thoughts contained in the essay On Truth and Lies in an Extra-Moral Sense, Human, All Too Human, The Gay Science, Beyond Good and Evil, and some of his unpublished notes found in Will to Power. We also briefly discuss Von Helmholtz and the Neo-Kantian movement in the German sciences.
Spotify: open.spotify.com/show/0ZARzVC...
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[@aWomanFreed]

This is the first Nietzsche channel I’ve found that doesn’t seem to twist everything for some agenda

[@untimelyreflections]

Thank you! (Except Nietzsche's agenda, that is!)

[@rontimus]

I think the key thing is getting offended. If a nietzsche channel wants to avoid offending people, then it's inauthentic. Offense is an inevitable passage on this path

[@andreedmund5677]

@@untimelyreflections😂😂😂

[@gabrielferreira-pu6ep]

Hmm what do you think about weltgeist

[@nicolasgiaconia8051]

@@gabrielferreira-pu6ep weltgeist is really good, and really accurate and fact based

[@MrYost-xx5bj]

The three principles: The truth is not the good All truth is human Humans need lies

[@PinoSantilli-hp5qq]

Ignorance is a scary thing. And saying the ignorance is a required thing is even scarier.

[@user-ku5lc3sj6q]

The hardest thing about nailing Nietzsche is he does not even believe in his own philosophy. He creates one half of a literary Rorschach test and leaves you to research the other half. In the end, your interpretation of what he creates tells you more about yourself than it says about him. "The truth is not good. Humans need lies."

[@whoaitstiger]

Did Nietzsche and Truth leave each other mortally wounded in the end, laughing as they lay dying together on the field of battle?

[@Anthony-xf4rb]

Jordan Peterson thinks that a godless world equals a meaningless abysmal chaos.

[@mat7083]

⁠@@Anthony-xf4rbHuman beings are inherently designed to seek and create meaning, and to establish and follow rules, especially the anarchic types. Godlessness and chaos are hopelessly conflated to permeate an already preconditioned cultural perspective palpable in the collective human psyche. The more familiar with the idea, the more it is propagated, the more it is *felt* to be true.

[@joshuachidiebere7087]

​@@Anthony-xf4rbLol... You clearly haven't read nietzsche. He thinks so as well.

[@Dunge0n]

@@joshuachidiebere7087 This. "Stuck in bed... Deep Crisis... I despise Life." -Nietzche's diary.

[@Cergey-tx3mv]

A couple of years ago I was struck with this idea: "Truth is the privilege of the strong". Growing up as a pathological liar made the process of embracing the truth a challenging, fun and rewarding endeavor. Deceit was my shield for a long time. It was easy to lie, especially to myself, until I understood that it won't help me really stand up for myself. In my case truth turned out to be prolific. Though too much truth in one single moment can sometimes be harmful.

[@Dunge0n]

"The winners of this war will define 'Justice'!" -Don Flamingo

[@brianmclaughlin8945]

When I was a young man i was blown up by an i.e.d. in Iraq. This was to much truth about humanity. As a result I devolved ptsd. These themes defiantly ring true in my human experience.

[@seanericson907]

Incredible. Glad you're alive

[@Primetiime32]

“To much truth is not good . “ that is interesting and good thought .

[@yassinbenhaj1669]

I'm going to binge all of your videos.

[@kappacea8111]

I subscribed because of your clear explanations of Nietzsche's beautiful ideas. Keep up the good work! 😃

[@BillJones-fn8pt]

Thanks your podcasts on Nietzsche were fascinating to me .

[@Kar-Kan]

Well in JP opinion that "truth serves life" is that what's serves life that is the truth. If lie serves life, then lie is the true. Radical but practical opinion. And it reminds me about George Orwells 1984 somehow...

[@OverOnTheWildSide]

It serves as a warning for 1984 conditions. It means whichever lie wins out is the one that will be lived as truth. So we better watch out that the wrong lies don’t prevail.

[@werdeduselbstwerdeduselbst4883]

I like the point on language including mathematics - because it is the case that mathematical truths are only "true" within the assumptions that any mathematics is done within. Math is internally consistent, but that doesn't imply anything about the world outside mathematics unless we can somehow use math to point to truths beyond the assumptions of math - which is how math comes to gain utility through the sciences and arts.

[@zerotwo7319]

Math is not always internally consistent , gödel second incompleteness theorem states that you can't prove that it is. This means paradoxes can appear in the future. Even if it were consistent, Math would be incomplete. That is it would have true statments that are unprovable. I am not an expert in this area, but there are other limits to math. You can watch 'Math's Fundamental Flaw' if you are interested.

[@werdeduselbstwerdeduselbst4883]

@@zerotwo7319 I am not yet to the level where I use that theorem, and I will need to learn more before I can reply in any meaningful way. However - you've inspired a return to proofs for me, which is good. Thank you!

[@_7.8.6]

And yet if you were to miscalculated the stresses and strain on the Empire State Building the outcomes would be obvious for all to see

[@zerotwo7319]

​@@_7.8.6 A tool can be useful even if it is limited. No doubt about that. But it is limited, you cannot derive all reality from it. Like newton's equations cannot derive Einstein's relativity and relativity cannot explain the quantum world. Those were scientific observations (outside of math) transformed into equations. (math) "but that doesn't imply anything about the world outside mathematics" Wich was the point of the discussion.

[@rontimus]

I think the key point is truth as continual experimentation, and that lies and illusion can also serve truth in the end

[@drgordo112]

Great content! Definitely has me pondering Truth!

[@samuelinauen1038]

Great 3 points you decided to summarize the nietzschean view on thruth! I've been binge watching your podcasts for a couple of days now, wanna get through all of them, because they seem so full of knowledge about Nietzsche's philosophical views!

[@Donkey_Glossolalia]

Same here- listening to two or three a day whilst I draw. With I'd had access to Kjeldsen's videos back when I was a student, they really are so much better than the majority of Nietzsche tour guides out there on touyube!

[@Donkey_Glossolalia]

WISH not with! Bloody predicktive txt!

[@Anthony-xf4rb]

Good !

[@ClarkHathaway3238]

I would like to see a video that broadly summarizes and responds to JBP's articulation of western philosophy. It seems like he really struggles to understand several key figures and their systems. I've only recently begun to learn about postmodernism and Peterson's regurgitation of his undergraduate study of the subject is deeply frustrating. Given how prolific Peterson is in pop culture these days, and how impressionable his target audience is, I think a total rebuttal of his methods would be incredibly insightful. That would probably a massive undertaking, though. P.S. This was a great introduction to Nietzsche. It definitely clarified and enriched my high school understanding of him. My only real academic inquiry into Nietzsche has been through Dostoevsky and now I can't help but feel that his position on the role of religion in western civilization has been misrepresented at every turn. Disgustingly, I often hear "nihilism" invoked as a straw man for Christians to attack as some unwieldy, bottomless pit if you reject their authoritarian morality.

[@ianpage2509]

What do you think postmodernism is?

[@ClarkHathaway3238]

@@ianpage2509 This definition is a little loosey goosey but basically it's a collection of schools of thought that reject modern philosophical traditions and embrace skepticism and relativism. I bring it up because Peterson conflates it with Marxism and it's really embarrassing.

[@anomalisticofferings14]

@@ClarkHathaway3238 To peterson's credit he does admit his notion of "postmodern neomarxism" basically describes popular views and tropes of academic leftists and is technically oxymoronic, but he doesn't seem to understand much else about it.

[@ahmedmahmud4238]

Christianity is a great religion. If you think authoritarian morality is bad, consider totalitarian morality which is the realm of Liberals, Communists, Fascists, Judaism and Islam.

[@PinoSantilli-hp5qq]

Humans invested and took the route of intelligence for survival you can call it evolving to use intelligence for survival at the expense of brute strength. So thats why we always seek knowledge because like I said Knowledge is power and power helps with survival.

[@TorMax9]

Nietzsche wrote, translated from German, “What then is truth? A mobile army of metaphors, metonyms, and anthropomorphisms- in short, a sum of human relations which have been enhanced, transposed, and embellished poetically and rhetorically, and which after long use, seem firm, canonical and obligatory to a people: truths are illusions about which one has forgotten that this is what they are; metaphors which are worn out and without sensuous power; coins which have lost their pictures and now matter only as metal, no longer as coins.”

[@sealinski]

Could we say that Jordan Peterson’s seemingly misrepresentation of Nietzsche’s views means that he is actually living the the third principal of truth, accordant to Nietzsche, whether Jordan’s viewpoint is positive or negative itself?

[@oteila6151]

Probably not that easy, yes he is essentially lying to himself, either he knows better or just stopped inquiring the truth after he came to his conclusion which amount to the same things. But the condition for a lie that is worth to tell yourself is that it should help you, further your enjoyment of life or aid you in overcoming yourself, achieving new heights and so on. And since Peterson still firmly believes in Christian Values and way of life, id say his lie is probably not aiding him, atleast not his whole being, only certain drives within him that are satisfied with and want the christian everyone is equal and life and self denying values. So ultimately he is probably damaging himself more than he is helping. But also he is a psychologist, so maybe he has himself figured out so what do I know. My take on this is that you have to add a * to the lie, being that it has to aid you or be useful in some sense

[@___xyz___]

I think the problem is that an obsession with truth isn't conducive to propagation of life, as Nietzsche himself said. Truth is truth. Life is life. If what you desire the most is to know what is right about things, you may do so. That doesn't make that a good idea. It doesn't make you a good person. It doesn't even make you right by all accounts and paradigms of understanding the world. So then remains the question whether the pursuit of theory is a valid judgement of people.

[@toddianuzzi9296]

This was fantastic thanks

[@TorMax9]

Lies might have short-term benefits but also long-term disaster.

[@firstnamelastname2197]

Not necessarily

[@brendanerickson2363]

Best channel on YT!

[@emZee1994]

I wanted to comment my contributions to this discussion, but I had barely gotten half way when I saw I had written a whole essay 😂 So I'll just say this, I agree with Nietzsche here and I'll say that the next metaphysical system we create needs to be about serving the will to power not the will to truth An easy reconciliation is a concept I discovered within Eastern Orthodox Christianity, although I think they copied it from somewhere else. That is the Essence and Energy distinction. We can never know the essence of Truth, that is we can never grasp the completeness of the absolute Truth. But we can experience the energies of Truth and that's good enough because that serves life. Let that which remains outside of our comprehension remain as the divine mystery

[@emZee1994]

@@AllenCrawford3 ☺️☺️

[@TorMax9]

Yes, life is the central phenomenon being served, the measure - and the measurer - of any "truth". An abundant life. A wonderful life. An enlightened and liberated and beautiful life. We never get to the essence of life - or anything - but we do feel the energy. We feel enthusiastic and inspired, tired and angry, frustrated and want to lash out, love and loved, empowered and disempowered, valuable and insignificant, jealous and envious, generous and graceful, good and bad, good and evil, beautiful and ugly, healthy and sick, etc. Instead of making a distinction, I make an equation: Value = Truth. Value to life. If Eastern Orthodox Christianity has value to life, then it is true. Eastern Orthodox Christianity is not to be judged by the constraints of ideology or politics, economy or science. It's to be judged directly by its value to life. All science does is create provisional models for the purpose of prediction and control; as soon as a model better at prediction and control comes along, the old models are set aside and the new and improved model is used - until something still better comes along. None of these models are "true" is any essentialist way. They are tools, more or less useful, valuable, in any given project. This brings us to the given project. Who or what determines the projects we want to carry out, achieve, succeed in? This is a spiritual question. A great mystery. Genociders want to genocide. Builders want to build. Doctors want to heal. Explorers want to explore. Exploiters want to exploit. The miserable want to spread misery. The joyous want to spread joy. Saints want save. Artists want to inspire. Etc. Today is Eastern Orthodox Christianity Christmas. MERRY CHRISTMAS! Peace on earth and goodwill towards all with good faith. By their fruits, ye shall know them. What profits a man to gain the world but lose his soul?

[@rachelgoddyn2125]

Wow. You are a great communicator

[@gingerbreadzak]

NIETZSCHE on TRUTH: What JORDAN PETERSON gets WRONG 00:00 🎵 The Nietzschean view of truth is complex and distinct from common philosophical notions. 02:32 🧙‍♂ Nietzsche personified truth as a woman, emphasizing the philosopher's relationship with truth. 06:01 🕵 Three key principles in understanding Nietzsche's view of truth: Truth is not the good, all truth is human, humans need lies. 11:46 🧐 Jordan Peterson's simplification of Nietzsche's view as "truth serves life" overlooks the complexity of Nietzsche's stance. 15:02 🤔 Nietzsche argues that truth and goodness are not necessarily connected; truth can be harmful, and evil people may understand certain truths better. 21:51 💡 Nietzsche believes knowledge can paralyze action, as insight into harsh truths may outweigh motives for action. 23:41 🤔 Nietzsche believed that in moments of existential threat or action, self-criticism and doubt should be suspended for quick and decisive decision-making. 28:36 🧠 Nietzsche's perspective on truth challenges the notion of absolute truth, emphasizing that all human knowledge is relative to the human condition. 33:31 💪 Nietzsche suggests that the value of a statement is not determined by its truth but by its usefulness and impact on life, emphasizing the importance of life preservation over truth. 35:09 🧐 Nietzsche explores the origins of humanity's drive for truth-seeking, suggesting that it is rooted in evolutionary needs and shaped by language and perception. 44:10 📜 Nietzsche's view of truth is that it is a product of human relations, metaphors, and language conventions, highlighting the role of social conventions in shaping truth. 46:59 📚 Nietzsche sought a naturalistic explanation for truth-seeking, viewing the will to truth as a genuine human phenomenon. 47:26 🗣 Nietzsche argued that the concept of truth originates from our collective agreement on language and its usefulness rather than existing independently. 48:22 🧪 Nietzsche's early writings show influence from Kant's phenomenology, but he took it to the logical conclusion, emphasizing the inaccessibility of the true world. 50:57 🔍 Nietzsche acknowledges the importance of science but sees it as a means to falsify hypotheses and discover patterns within the phenomenal world. 52:05 💡 Nietzsche recognizes that scientific discoveries highlight the regularity of the natural world, but it's not a denial of an objective world-it's acknowledging the mix of the objective and human. 54:38 💭 Nietzsche questions the regularity of the world if individuals had different senses, emphasizing that our perceptions are subjective and shaped by our senses. 57:10 🤯 Nietzsche posits that humans have a need to believe in irrational, unprovable things, as we pursue knowledge, which may undermine our values and beliefs. 58:05 🧠 Nietzsche argues that our rational principles, even when logical, are founded on arbitrary, pre-rational values, and these values drive our actions. 59:02 🧩 Nietzsche contends that the will to truth challenges the irrational drives that gave rise to it, making it self-defeating when taken to extremes. 01:06:24 🌟 Nietzsche believed that life as an experiment in seeking knowledge, even in the face of danger, was the path to a good life.

[@elshua9530]

Many thanks!🙏

[@sanjeevek9259]

Like JBP in the thumbnail 😂, bro - fellow Nietzsche fan, keep up the work! 'Truth is beauty, beauty truth!

[@sanjeevek9259]

truth is often times painful

[@untimelyreflections]

Nice! Simpsons reference.

[@The-Interpreter]

"Supposing truth is a woman, what then?" is not a question. Truth is not something, but something can be true. Truth is not something that waits for anyone to be picked up. Truth produces true thoughts on demand. Woman produces offspring with the encouragement of man. Truth will produce true thoughts if encouraged by a truth seeker. As Quai Chand Cane said, "To shine like jade, to sound like wind chimes, are difficult to get, but to try for them is to be worth of them". This 'Truth' is the thought that springs unprompted in the mind.

[@user-qb2ze8pn9c]

If truth is a woman, then procreate wit it

[@firemermaid1980]

Cass Eris' video on Jordan Petersen and The Sandman discusses this misunderstanding through media.

[@antidepressant11]

In defence of Jordan, I will say this. He got us more simple minded people interested in intellectual things .

[@sunflare8798]

But how many zealots has he created?

[@antidepressant11]

@@sunflare8798 he wouldn't be the first to have zealous fans. I don't see a problem.

[@OverOnTheWildSide]

@@sunflare8798yeah it’s horrible seeing all these guys wanting to take personal responsibility with their lives and make themselves into better men so zealously. Much preferred is to have blue hair and zealously talk about victimization.

[@MsJavaWolf]

@@OverOnTheWildSide There are countless people preaching responsibility. There are countless psychologists with similar credentials as Peterson. None of these things are why people follow him.

[@glencoewhite6939]

⁠@@MsJavaWolf yeah but JBP’s reach is one of the farthest. The man has been uploading his lectures for a long time. Not to mention his frequent appearances on a lot of popular podcasts. I became a fan of his without ever searching for it. He just appeared in my YT feed. You also pretend to know the REAL reason why people follow him; as if it’s only for nefarious purposes…

[@magicsinglez]

And yet no one gets to truth, for whatever purpose (who knows), the way Nietzsche does.

[@AtheistEve]

It’s what we do with a fact/truth, that’s where we often make things worse. Particularly as truths are usually not discrete things but whole strings of related and necessary things.

[@zerotwo7319]

I had an similar understanding when I decided to apply materialism and science to the senses. What is the precision of the senses of a man? How can one compares to another in this 'sense' measure? What is the 'ruler' of a man? where does this information comes, and what is the precision of it? Even the determinism train was stopped with information decay. If anyone is interested, there is a great book on the matter of math and truth: Logicomix.

[@Troinik]

“The world we experience being a mere representation created by our sense organs, raises the question; well then would a being with different sense organs experience a different world ?” This really makes you think

[@PinoSantilli-hp5qq]

I think we will always need to re-evaluate our beliefs that are "taken for granted". Because there will always be challenges to those beliefs. Whether from within or outside.

[@yongkim3333]

It’s a very controversial claim, that truth can be harmful, so much so that you’d expect some solid examples, but none are forthcoming, only claims about the theoretical life or philosopher’s life being painful etc. which is not the same. One could agree with the latter but still hold that truths themselves, or knowing them, are not harmful. The only examples I could come up with are things like the truth of your wife’s betrayal, etc. that commonly bolster the old cliche, that ignorance is bliss, but I disagree, I’d rather know the truth, even if it’s painful, than be ignorant. But even here, I wouldn’t say that the truth is harmful, but that your wife’s disloyalty is what’s actually harmful. It is painful, sure, but pain is sometimes necessary for us to grow, to find the truth, to move on and establish a better foundation with someone who’s more trustworthy, so even here truth is better for you overall in the long run than ignorance or lies. So the claim that truth is not necessarily good, I find highly dubious at best. With regard to the soldier example, I’d say that, yes, overthinking is bad, you can never know everything, so that’s not even a desirable goal, better to aim for something like ‘sufficient reason’ for action which doesn’t require too much, especially when you’re in a situation requiring quick decisions, like in a battle. But once you understand that overthinking is not good, I see nothing wrong or undesirable for a soldier to be critical or to think as long as it doesn’t hinder other goals. Even the theoretical life of a philosopher, I see nothing necessarily painful or bad. You can always overdo things and make it bad, but that’s true of any profession or activity, that’s not peculiar to the theoretical life. With regard to all reality being human reality, even Kant admits that noumena is not knowable, thus his metaphysics only concerns phenomena, or human reality. So correspondence theory of truth is not referring to noumena, but to human reality. When you say that this distorts reality, distorts from what? From noumena? But we’re not talking about that. So phenomena. But what would it mean for phenomena (something that necessarily goes through our lenses of perception and conception) to be not distorted? What are you making a distinction from? Unless you first make a distinction between what’s undistorted perception and what’s not, what’s disinterested perception vs. what’s not, this discussion makes no sense. Consciousness may have evolved so that it came about only when it’s useful, and to the extent that it’s useful, but that does not necessarily determine its future life. For example, our hands may have evolved because it was useful to grab things, but it developed for other things too that had nothing to do with the original development, like playing a guitar. Interest in truth arises from physiological reasons, but that does not make it an error, it only means that truth is physiologically useful. The argument that for the same reason lies are needed, well, how are lies useful? If our spiritual beliefs are lies, it’d be better to know them as lies and not be fooled by them, unless this is just another ‘ignorance is bliss’ claim. And how are they necessary fictions? Why do we need them? Atheists happily throw them away today, so obviously they’re not necessary. Not at all convinced that lies are valuable. ‘Life as a means to knowledge’ does not contradict ‘truth should serve life,’ why can’t they serve each other?

[@Boastinggamer2]

This reminds me of a nietzsche quote, i don’t know if its something he actually said “I’m not upset that you lied to me, i’m upset that from now i can’t believe you”

[@silent_stalker3687]

There’s one guy who read AS’s ‘the world as will’ and killed him self. Another guy who read other books that showed to exist was to suffer and killed himself with his wife as he could not find happiness.

[@TorMax9]

There is no theory-free observation. Everything you see is coloured by your assumptions. The inferences you make are shaped by your assumptions. To get to your assumptions, you have to go deep into your subconscious. And your subconscious is deep - personal upbringing, your first spoken language of nouns and verbs, cultural values, biological inheritance, evolution of the universe right back to the beginning of time, etc., etc., etc. We never get to "truth" full stop. We only get experience of desires, emotions, aspirations and patterns, regularities, trends, which we use to predict the future, to prepare, to act, to preserve, improve and enhance life. Life is the measure of all things. Life is the central phenomenon around which everything else revolves and finds their being and their value. Then there is this question: What is this you doing the diving into your subconscious? An infinite regress of "yous" looking at the precious you and trying to figure out what it is..

[@ZM-dm3jg]

Anyone know the name of the intro score?

[@samuelinauen1038]

Or the outro, it seems very fitting to the whole podcast

[@eldoradose]

Knowledge is not the truth. It is always so partial that we must believe that our knowledge represents the truth. The truth has no value at all because is always total and priceless. We can only refer to truth but never have or gain the truth.

[@actuallyKriminell]

~40. I understand these words as abstractions. I know that technically two apples are distinct. And yet when I eat them they nourish me just the same. Rarely do I have the need to understand them as different beyond anything superficial

[@leesnyder9144]

I love the thumbnail

[@Bilboswaggins2077]

17:26

[@randolphgallagher7942]

Are you familiar with Vaihinger's "The Philosophy of As if" How does this compare to Fred's views?

[@PinoSantilli-hp5qq]

We dont need organs to sense electric currents. We use our intelligence to to create tools to do it for us. That's why I say that Humans have invested in intelligence because it can and will lead to POWER.

[@toddianuzzi9296]

Nice

[@mikehutchinson4826]

If an ontology is based around this very vitality though, then the vitality itself would be much more true than anything opposing it in a correspondence theory of truth.

[@mykura2018]

Sir are you uni or colege lecturer or in schoperhauerian sense an independent researcher?

[@silent_stalker3687]

Are you?

[@s.lazarus]

@@silent_stalker3687 are you?

[@silent_stalker3687]

@@s.lazarus are you… going through entire pages of comments? XD wow Edit Okay at first I thought you were one of those guys who literally try and comment on everything

[@michaelmcclure3383]

You can see why Nietzsche is considered a proto-postmodernist.... Nietzsche certainly clung to many identitarian fictions as do his contemporary disciples. Regarding Peterson, i think the people he criticised and blamed for the corrosion of values (Foucault and Derrida), are more Nietzschian than Peterson and I don't necessarily mean that as an insult to him... Having read Nietzsche and the Nazis recently, I can see Peterson is ideologically more on the side of traditional liberalism and not collectivism. I hope he realises this. As a psychologist, his interest is probably just because of Nietzsche's great psychological insights and the influence on Jung. I really don't see much ideological affiliation. I even wonder if Nietzsche can even be called a philosopher.. Maybe he is the first "critical theorists'. I think Nietzsche is mostly untrue, and that most of his statements stem not from genuine enquiry, but presumption. It's infuriating.. But what does that matter when you negate any notion of truth from the outset. Particularly disturbing (and i think deluding for him) is his biologicalism or eugenicism.. There he steps away from being the proto-postmodernist and becomes the proto-nazi.

[@alohm]

I have not watched yet. To give insight, I was told to listen to JP because of my affinity for Fred. Also I purposefully mispronounce his name since the vast, vast majority that wish to correct me have not read a single line of his work, imo. I watched JPs 45 mins on one paragraph of Nietzsche... Needless to say: it was more about him than anything else... Then his obsession with exodus(I would chose other OT books imo) and ignoring the same lessons, better imo, in Fred's work,. Never-mind that I have also studied Jung's work - and his Liber Novus is a re-telling of the same search for meaning... I wonder why they avoid these truths - john Vervaeke is another example... They tend to have the odd pithy insight, they are loved for the least reasons, criticized for the least, and yet they themselves refuse to see their own hubris or ignorance, or? First rule of Logic is Doubt. CS Pierce. Greatest forecasters are those that doubt even in their own theories, Kahneman(Psychology. philosophy. Via economics)

[@alohm]

I love that you mention that you cannot read a line, a page, a chapter, or even one book alone. Your example of starting with Beyond good and Evil was not missed. Imagine reading a book written to explain another book, without having read the original book that your book was written about? Will to Power is a great example - I doubt that those who read or worse quote - can tell what is Fred and what is editor - let alone read all Fred's works - or explored his journals... * Ha! Thank you for pointing to another example of Fred's philosophy influencing Jung: Carl's Happy Fiction on display... wunderbar *Also Jung's quote that if the error guides better than what I held as truth... I will be led by the 'error'. Labels, perspective.

[@sudhirpatel7620]

Nature goes on forever for everyone and everything to return as everyone and everything an infinite number of times through evolutionary processes. 🌌

[@cheri238]

This is priceless. Thank you, sir. Nietzsche is complex and I am so happy I have found this channel. Jordan Peterson has his followers, and I have listened a few times, and could not listen any longer. Although he is an intellectual, I have to agree respectfully to disagree with him. Furthermore, as I learn more about the Neanderthals and their evolution as they traveled, they seemed to have cared for one another, learn to make tools, and gather food, anthropology, and paleontology seem to attest to that with their findings as scientists, through DNA, unless something as ice age or traumatic natural disasters at the time, they might have to eat one another, as in cases throughout the centuries. Starvation is not a good thing for humanity. We can do better as citizens of the world in 2023. We are walking in seas of madness, all societies are being affected by the powers of greed. Human nature 101.

[@sandozkarika]

Truth that seves life may only be poetically true as life is irrational and not selfconcious.

[@dandydante7924]

Stardusk? O.o

[@PinoSantilli-hp5qq]

Man seek TRUTH for one reason and my gosh you should know! Will to Power!!!!!!! C'mon man!

[@singh3100]

Truth is women who love the winner 😆 it killing me 🙂

[@Firerose101]

Kinda fun truth being so ambitious

[@villevanttinen908]

Thinking is not harmless, are you ready Face the Truth?...because, once found One, there is no turning back, So if you happy and satisfied, stop right now. ..I´m warning you.

[@christopherellis2663]

25:47 There is no room for some theory of morality in matters of life or death. To be or not to be is the only relevant question.

[@joeybeann]

Don't worry, it will

[@magicsinglez]

Lol, how could We discuss the era of Greece when it was sound or not sound? First, I think we’d have to know what is truly going on in this year today, and I doubt any of us truly know? Lol, the period of Greece where it was sound. . .

[@Baczkowa78]

Now the science is all lies. Great job bringing back metaphysical neuroses, fellas!

[@untimelyreflections]

More neurotic uncertainty to come!

[@veerswami7175]

Jordan is not naive I think the problem is his cross come between nietsze explanation no pun intended I like that men but I rarely think any women fantasies him or he knows tough reality that also prevail in 2nd and 3rd world his outlook at certain place is so narrow people in Asia think wtf he speaking

[@PanSzawu]

No. I know him and he was my professor irl. You're completely off.

[@user-og5ne3tg1x]

Finally someone who got nietzsche right. Really shows you how complicated he is

[@jamescareyyatesIII]

Ironically, the examined life wasn't worth living, either, for Socrates. This is the tightrope Neitzche is walking, I think.

[@PinoSantilli-hp5qq]

But it's exactly that we humans question or seek truth that sets us apart from animals. That is to say it is our NATURE and a NOT a choice to seek truth.

[@SameAsAnyOtherStranger]

I'll allow Nietzsche wiggle room to parody society and express himself as if he represents the foibles he sees in other people, but not some random KZbinr or anyone else proffering analysis on anyone's philosophical perspective. 4:35 "...we might look at...the common wants of the philosopher the common desires of the philosopher to dominate the opposing ideologies to be proven right to put truth into tables of categories and so on..." To be compelled to dominate any situation is to take the precious moment of interacting with another person and make it an occasion to place oneself above them in some imagined hierarchical order. And for what? I really couldn't say. To me it just seems like an obsession with acquiring status. And again I ask, for what? Is to set a goal of actually becoming the image we project? But why be confined to the transitory values of previous...just anything previous? That person you so handily dominated might have had the better idea after all.

[@untimelyreflections]

Oh, you won’t “allow” it? 😂

[@lonelycubicle]

“Too much truth is not good.” I may get accused of misunderstanding or being too literal, but usually apply statements like that to nations. I assume the truth is, as best it can be determined, that indigenous people were living in all of the current US before Europeans arrived. So who does the “too much truth is not good” apply to? Seems like truth would be good for current living indigenous people as a country works out how best to make amends for past injustices. But does Nietzsche mean to only apply that judgement to the currently powerful people who have benefited from that past injustice? I don’t want to start an argument, just wondering how to apply that standard. Have wondered that since first reading several essays saying it was good for France not to look too closely at its collaboratist past with WW2 Nazi occupiers immediately after the war and now the nation is starting to look at it more closely. Again, not bringing up provocative subjects to argue, but I tend to have sympathy that the truth is always best, but can see the other side where it may not be good.

[@Thomas-xd4cx]

That’s a factoid not Truth with a capital T.

[@lonelycubicle]

@@Thomas-xd4cx I took a Nietzsche course and the instructor’s view was that Nietzsche never justifies in a systematic way why he prioritizes his particular values (basically aristocratic values) which always irked me why philosophers give him a pass for that. How can Nietzsche say Truth is bad when he does not believe in Truth or thing-in-itself? Seems like he should have to start out by giving his definition of what Truth is which he is denouncing. Even if grant his belief that Will to Power is in nature, what justifies building a philosophy on that? Anyways, a longish explanation of what I was really trying to get at.

[@ahobimo732]

I often have an immediate and very compelling negative reaction to many of Nietzsche's quotations. It feels as if it would be almost TOO EASY to ridicule and excoriate what he appears to be saying, as little more than the pretentious bombast of a juvenile, narcissistic hypocrite. However, I always have an equally compelling suspicion that these initial impressions are not reliable, and that such a severely uncharitable interpretation of his thought would be at best incomplete, and at worst, deeply inaccurate. I think that he is either the author of the most poisonous sophistry our species has ever produced, or a genius who probed more deeply into the enigma of human nature than any other before or since. I still haven't decided which is the case.

[@garrycraigpowell]

Yet another brilliant podcast. As a psychologist, Peterson is good, especially as a post-Jungian. But a philosopher, you're right, he oversimplifies. Unfortunately, he thinks he's qualified to speak on any subject. This podcast is a much subtler corrective.

[@hosamelsayed5723]

Pretty sure as a professor, Jordan sure is qualified more than a youtuber.

[@magicsinglez]

This bogs down into almost meaninglessness.

[@bryanutility9609]

Just subscribed to your RSS feed.

[@jameshofbauer1089]

Nietzsche knows women?

[@lumeronswift]

I also wonder when Peterson will realize that Dostoevsky wasn't writing documentaries... sure, he wrote interesting stories, but they were fiction.

[@ianpage2509]

Yeah but fiction mirrors reality. Those stories hit hard for a reason.

[@Anthony-xf4rb]

Dostoyevsky is a religious writer of fiction that supports convention and the ordinary status quo.

[@Anthony-xf4rb]

Yeah man!

[@davidjohnbonnett]

To have made that comment, there is no way you have read any Dostoyevsky, and I mean actually read it.

[@AquariusGate]

Im not a fan of Jordan, good intersection of ideas here though. Ive been writing about truth and lies lately. Truth is no more than realisations, potential truths and truth we make real in action. Truth has to be time sensitive, or we wouldn't be able to outgrow truths and transform our lies to a truthful realisation. Lies are essential for escaping truths we aren't ready to face yet. In this sense, there are two kinds of lie. One which is a plea for a period of grace, until we can put things straight. The second kind is a pure deception where there is no intention of making things true once they're distorted.

[@douglasparise3986]

Math is truth which always serves life

[@dragonfishing]

Lmao no

[@douglasparise3986]

u beez woke

[@douglasparise3986]

N sheeyit

[@stanouincustody]

WATH AGAIN

[@user-qb2ze8pn9c]

Even ont math is a human abstraction. MAN ain't god

[@iga279]

The English language doesn’t have genders, German does (der/die/das). Both truth and wisdom are feminine in German: die Wahrheit und die Weisheit. Perhaps that’s what he meant by saying The truth is a woman.

[@andyroobrick-a-brack9355]

Jordan Peterson misinterpreting, be it out of ignorance or fear, the philosophical works of other people for his own ideological benefit? What? Never. Regardless, beautifully done, and it helped me put my own ideas and Nietzsche's into perspective.

[@Lalallalu]

What a supremely boring presentation. So arid and dry.,.. I speak as a graduate from Liceo Classico who studied and pondered over philosophy, classical Greek language and literature, Latin language and literature, history etc. so I'm not an average listener on this topic. A little lightness of touch in the presentation style would be beneficial

[@hillanderson6503]

Suppose truth is transgender What then?

[@thomascross2075]

Jordan Peterson is totally superficial. He has nothing new to say. He draws on this and that, Carl Jung, the Old Testament, parables, anything he can lay his hands on. He starts a sentence going in one direction and then leaps off into another, never reaching any conclusions about anything. All hit air. No wonder he is so popular. He is everywhere lecturing on everything. He strikes me as emotionally unbalanced.

[@ianpage2509]

Then who do you recommend?

[@thomascross2075]

@@ianpage2509 essentialsalts, James clear, Nietzsche.

[@averayugen7802]

why would anyone care if Peterson doesn't understand Nietzsche, How could he?? He is so obsessed with his own imaginary power and superiority that Nietzsche would probably SNEER at that poseur with the male-problem. LOL

[@ianpage2509]

What do you mean by that?

[@averayugen7802]

read it again.@@ianpage2509

[@FreedomSpirit108]

So religion may be a good lie for people for society

[@ahmedmahmud4238]

I enjoy your videos and I argue against the philosophers. Do Heidegger, and do Heiddegers interpretation of Nietszche.

[@ahmedmahmud4238]

The unreflective un-self-critical untheoretical man of action, will only live out and act with the concepts and vision created by he who does analyze and profoundly understands the world, he himself doesnt understand.