Science Finds These 2 Key Workouts Improve Your Cycling FTP

[@skiprogers226]

One of the best explanations I have listened to on the need to structure your training program for increased aerobic capacity....well done!

[@XMan-mi6gs]

Thanks for the good video Taren. I am 37 years old. Doing Triathlons for 4 years now. I am training with Zwift and a trainingspartner since a couple of months. We are doing the FTP building training scheme. We have a FTP around 185 now. Have to start somewhere 😁. My trainingspartner also watches your video’s and we discuss the inspiration you give us. It motivates us to take our progress to the next level. We love your set up. I have the same TT bike ☺️. So thank you again and we look forward to your future video’s!

[@terrywalker7127]

Awesome improvement. I am 67 and starting back cycling little over a year ago. Did the SYSTM Half Monty ramp test yesterday and hit 206 FTP. So when I hear of you talking about hitting 300 watts I think man that is super human. Excellent output.

[@faarao44]

My ftp is 160W, 206W sounds superhuman to me

[@tednruth453]

The point of any test protocol is to establish a working platform for training and to measure improvement ( hopefully) over time.

[@TriStruggleBus]

So Taren, long time follower here, we need to talk: let me prefix this by saying I’m not a sports scientist, neither are you. I feel like you have just come full circle. When I started following you were doing TrainerRoad workouts, running and swimming with Coach Pat. Back in those days the work was about intensity well out from races and specificity when getting closer to your events. Then you pivoted to Z2, LSD, Maffetone Method training and fat adaptation. Which is fine, the triathlon scene sort of went through that, with intermittent fasting, OMAD diet, hacking your insulin levels etc. becoming an every place thing. Now we’re back at intensity, multiple times a week, 15s (that’ll be all out sprints, neuromuscular) to 5 minutes (long VO2, the 🤢 kind) above FTP to raise our threshold. I fee like you’re caught in the same circle as many others, including myself. So, again with the “I’m not a professional”-caveat, what does this leave us with? My suggestion is this: the best thing to do is to mix things up! You want to hit those long steady low intensity efforts on the regular, because we all know and understand that this is an important effort level, an important adaptation! It teaches our bodies to be comfortable on the bike for hours and hours without the implicit back/bottom support we get from pushing down on the pedals. But we also want those many high intensity efforts to push (sweet spot) or pull (VO2) up our FTP, such that our low intensity long distance efforts at 70% of FTP yield a greater absolut power output. And finally we want that muscular endurance, those longer block just below FTP. Or in other words: we want to become a well rounded athlete and not a one trick pony. Granted the purist triathlete may be fine with being a one trick pony, but these days, with races being a gamble who wants to be a horse right? Anyway, keep doing what you’re doing! I’m enjoying the journey, am seeing a lot of parallels to myself and some similar goals! Keep it up!

[@sming47]

Ronald i tend to agree with you, i have also followed Taren's efforts over the years in his personal lows and highs and his educational thoughts on triathlon all seem informative with a good service to beginners. From your comment, one thing did leap out to me is questioning what type of responder is Taren; as he prefers the ramp against the more endurance FTP effort? I think this personal choice may be more found in his DNA coding. There are kits which can determine whether you respond to HIIT, threshold or polarized. I think it may be one area Taren has not got into, and it may unlock some training issues he may have.

[@TriStruggleBus]

@@sming47 Interesting thought... yeah sure if we can work out what we respond to best, we can hack our training. In some circles monitoring core temperature during exercise is a new thing. Other's look at blood oxygen levels. Let's of interesting approaches, plenty of room to experiment, learn, grow.

[@thelmaviaduct]

This is one of your best videos, well done 👍🏿

[@cyclingboss469]

Good stuff T. Thanks for sharing this info. I always do the ramp test. Don't care if it is accurate so much as I am looking for progress over time and most importantly that it gives an FTP estimate where the training plan is difficult but doable. I think the best measure of testing ftp accuracy is threshold intervals. There is no way you can do 15 minutes straight of VO2 so if the ramp overestimated you will know. Sweet spot won't give away an overestimated ftp as you can do 15-20 minutes at threshold even if you think it is sweet spot. Similarly Z2 endurance work is still doable with an overestimated FTP. The studies you found match what I have heard before, push up from below and pull up from above. Do both.

[@stug45]

Air is more dense when it's colder and contains more oxygen in a measured volume. It's why the turbocharger on your car gives the car more air (compressed = more dense, more oxygen) so with more fuel alongside they produce more power.

[@sethrossinow156]

New to your channel. very good explanation. I always just did the Gorby on zwift, Recently did the Moviestar short intervals which was a totally different workout. my plan is to do both each week with some easy spins and weather permitting longer group rides on the weekends.. I ride about 8-10 hrs per week. Like many I really need to increase my power output relative to my heart rate. thanks again for the information.

[@AlexGriggAnimation]

It sounds like both the interval types you talk about at the end are above threshold so use the "pull" method. Did you see any evidence for threshold or sub threshold efforts improving ftp and VO2 max? I know they're important for improved repeatability and time to exhaustion

[@peelandy]

Interested to know how many of each type of FTP workout need to be done to elicit an improvement or over what period. And how to perm all that with what you’re doing in swimming and running sessions over the same period.

[@yiannis_christodoulou]

Thanks it was one of the best video I have watched from you. FTP tests ares really helpful, thanks a again

[@JT-lk9yg]

Love the videos Taren. So the way I've understood this whole FTP series so far is to include one FTP workout for example 30-90s intervals with 30-180s rest (dependant on interval length), intervals being @105% of current FTP and one VO2 Max workout for example 3-5 minutes intervals with 3-10 minutes rest (dependant on interval length), intervals being @115% current FTP, once each per week with total work time being at least 20 minutes, plus one long weekend ride. Have I understood correctly? Just a little confused by your comment about both pushing and pulling as it seems we're looking to mostly pull.

[@EverythingIsPhotogenic]

While pulling your FTP up from the top can be more effective, the issue is repeatability and adherence. If you're too fatigued from intensity and life stress to collect load, you won't glean the maximum possible potential. It's like the whole Keto debate but it's sweet spot V polarized and everyone has a weak opinion strongly held here. This video hit it right on the money, you need both and, not either or. On the note of the Zwift Ramp test, zwift is not a great designer of structured plans or workouts. Their ramp test is too one size fits all and it can absolutely give innacurate results but not because of the style but their own design. They had to add the light version of the test for smaller riders because of the frequency of underperformance. Doing the ramp test on trainer road is a better alternative, the step rates are built around your last FTP value and is designed for riders to fail at a very specific period of time to prevent a false high or low reading based on the length of time before reaching the critical point of work. I would recommend TR or another platform that has a better designed ramp test.

[@ericlehman53]

I think the time to "pull it up" from above is when you have plateaued from "pushing it up" from below. Rotating training blocks in this way seem like a good plan. The problem with spending too much time pulling it up above is that, while those gains are realized rather quickly, they aren't that sustainable in terms of training stress and repeatability. IMO, this is why you see pros spending so much time building aerobic capacity in zone 2 because those adaptations are longer lasting and help create a higher foundation for intermittent threshold+ work to build upon.

[@grantormerod]

A subscription to another cycling platform may also come with diverse papers 😂

[@EverythingIsPhotogenic]

@@grantormerod diverse papers?

[@remirvt]

If you works above FTP, FTP will become a bad indicator I guess. It's better to use MAP (Maximal Aerobic Power) which is the maximum power you can hold for 5-7min. And the RAMP test will give you this number (the last ramp). After that, you can just take some % of MAP and make your workouts. It's more precise than planning all your workouts from a threshold number which isn't really representative of your maximum capacity (ceiling). I think, we should adopt the same strategy as running with VO2max and Maximal Aerobic Speed.

[@AlvaroSantosNeto]

I think he meant this (MAP) at 11:15, when he mentioned efforts close to your VO2max. I immediately associated that piece of information with my MAP when he mentioned that. Agree that one should know his/her MAP in addition to the FTP, since power profiles vary a lot.

[@TheUltimateULTRA]

Do a ramp test then start a 20min ftp test with 90% of that power, slowly ramp it up to as hard as you can over the 20mins

[@bmp713]

Which of these method is more effective for increasing cardiac output and stroke volume? Is it better to reach over threshold with faster cadence or higher resistance?

[@trepidati0n533]

The only issue with the Zwift Ramp test is that it really isn't calibrated to the individual. The ramp test often over estimates by a lot (in my case almost 15%). I would often recommend people, the next day, try riding at your FTP in erg mode. If you can't do at least 30 minutes at the "tested FTP" then your FTP was over estimated and should be dialed back. Using an over estimated FTP can make intervals "too hard" and thus the recovery time is more than you think it is. This can result in over training which is worse than under training.

[@derkong7114]

Smart... thanks

[@trepidati0n533]

@@derkong7114 By the same token you can also ride too hard in Zone 2. Many of us get too comfortable with our "fatigue blanket" and almost become co-dependent on it. :)

[@bene3445]

shouldn't you be able to hold ftp for 1hour? So 30 minutes are way off the target time. I would guess 30min should feel something like easy reachable

[@trepidati0n533]

@@bene3445 The whole 1 hour thing is a bit of crap based upon modern science/testing. It goes in the same vein as "searing seals in the juices". It seems so good as simple to say FTP is the power you can hold for 1 hour. Our brains like simple things...but our bodies aren't simple. As Taren stated, FTP is actually where you begin to build lactate quickly. Some people will exhaust in 30-40 minutes..some people can go 80. It is a "spectrum" as they say based upon a whole set of confounding variables. The thing about FTP is you can "feel" where it is for the most parts. For example, on the ramp test...note where you actually begin to feel that "burn" in your legs vs what the test result is. The same thing goes with the "talk test" for VT1; it is almost as accurate as a gas exchange machine and cost you $0.00. We are all an experiment of one. Take the "science" but make sure you don't take it as something set in stone. You do you as they say.

[@kevinhanover5001]

interesting, I've never been able to replicate my current 20 min FTP with the ramp test. my ramp test results always are much lower & I'm a sprint duathlete. I "should" be able to outperform during the ramp test with my current fitness.

[@katiaricci9296]

Hi Taren, I've been following you since last year and everything in your videos is spectacular. The sessions are great, there are several funny moments, the quality is amazing... this channel is absolutely brilliant and you helped me a lot with the majority of my curiosities about the world of swimming and sport, thank you so much. Anyway, I would like to make a suggestion (if it's not a problem): I'm convinced that to add a really funny video on your channel, you could make a compilation of all of the moments where you or your friends get "caught" on video while peeing in the water (my uncle relieved himself in a diving session and that was hilarious), it's something like a "ops moments" compilation, what do you think? I'd be so so happy to watch it, let me know, bye!

[@MrPeperoni79]

You should to both tests at Zwift. The ramp test determines your Max Aerobic Power and just estimates your FTP based on the assumption that "most of the people's" FTP is @73-77% of your Max Aerobic Power. By doing both tests, you know at which percentage of your Max Aerobic Power your FTP is. From then on, you can do the Ramp Test more frequently and estimate the FTP with your individual determination of FTP - you still do a FTP test every 3 months (as it is indeed mentally taxing) to "update" at how much % of your MAP your FTP is and otherwise just do a Ramp Test once a week. With regard to the study saying that your FTP is more predictive than your VO2Max for a "mass-start-race" - totally inconclusive. VO2Max can be more decisive than FTP; depends on the power profile of the race. If nobody is working and then a guy makes a breakaway, VO2Max and maybe anaerobic capacity decides. If there is a high pace throughout the whole race, FTP is decisive. You also do not need to increase your VO2Max to increase your FTP. Of course, increasing your VO2Max will likely also increase your FTP - but you can increase your FTP without increasing your VO2Max. If you do a lot of Zone 3/4 stuff this will likely happen. Still, that is very good material you collected and exciting to read for a numbers nerd like me ;). The studies are however contradicting, most studies say that the 30/15s have the most impact on VO2Max and do not relate it to FTP that much.

[@thejuampi]

Thanks very much for the video

[@Robin_S78]

Many thanks, very good information!!

[@bluematches2992]

What would be the work rate, when you said long intervals (3-5min) to improve vo2max? What FTP percentage? Thanks

[@PeterSdrolias]

I’ve used 120% of FTP. 6x3 minute intervals with 4-minute recovery between intervals.

[@michelrivard1987]

Great explanation Taren!

[@albebusa]

Thanks for the video - excellent explanation - Super!

[@ashleyhouse9690]

Knowing your FTP is a useful number but I don't think people should ignore their Lactic Threshold Heart Rate when considering their training, especially when doing longer interval workouts. It's all very well hitting a certain power number but if the heart is not working in the right zone then any physiological adaptation may be less than optimal. This could also be for a number of reasons such as over training or illness where you just can't get the HR up. In most workouts that I am doing I am concentrating more on what my heart is doing than the actual power numbers which may tend to fluctuate somewhat to keep my heart in the required training zone.

[@brentrasmussen2440]

I use HR mostly for Z1/Z2 and power for Z3 and above.

[@sk1ppercat912]

I get lab testing done 3 times per year we’re I do a bunch of efforts wearing a Vo2 max with blood lactate testing to determine my true blood lactate curves.

[@garethkelly6167]

Great information as always T!

[@user-fy7ri8gu8l]

You can actually maximize FTP really fast by just doing 20min FTP tests over and over. The problem is you just become good at FTP tests and it less and less of a broader predictor. You'll run into a bubble burst on your first endurance zone 2 ride with beginning and end intervals. You won't be able to hold zone 2 for as long as you should and you probably won't be able to do the lead out intervals.

[@chrisodg]

You might be interested in the interview with jan olbrecht on the triathlon training podcast, as it’s all on this push vs pull and I’ve based my training on that interview ever since Cheers

[@valentinofogarty9943]

So you recommend shorter say 1min intervals to pull up your ftp combined with 5min intervals to push your ftp, but what intensity for these as a % ftp?

[@grantormerod]

Having done a lot of 40/20 intervals the 40s are normally just short of as hard as you can go, 120-130%) But you a lot of them. Eg 10x 40s at 130% 20s 50%…rest for 5 mins. Repeat 3 times. 3rd time is killer but that’s where the improvement are

[@loganammon5087]

How do you fit those into your overall training plan? Can’t imagine constantly doing high intensity is very sustainable and should only be a couple key sessions a week mixed with lots of endurance work.

[@vtakala6756]

Well he explained two type of intervals. Not so hard to include in to your training week.

[@tadziu2400]

Ramp test is more replicative than 20min test but you're approaching it wrong. 20min test is not only a test but a very important workout to adapt your body to be able to go at your FTP for 20minutes or longer which you can use in a race. Ramp test on the other hand is just a test, obviously it is a hard effort, but it does not translate into better sports results

[@williamstripparo2594]

Nice content this time👍

[@grantormerod]

Do people think there’s a place for longer intervals like 2x20 or 3x15 at 80-90% FTP??? Taren…you don’t mention about doing longer longer intervals like 8mins and above. Eg. 3x15m at 90%.

[@CharlesM236]

Bloodwork is the most important. Vo2 what do you eat ? Mask training can help epo blood is natural and you tell us about tin air well that helps to.... ?

[@cliffcox7643]

300Watts for the 20 minute test or for 1 hr?

[@ds6914]

Maybe short intervals work better in the short run

[@molfar9049]

i think zwift ramp test is +/- by 5%. based on personal data.

[@Davoudi]

Awesome video

[@darinsteele7091]

i only use FTP for training zones, if you don't race then just use it for training

[@wesleybell6824]

Information overload.! LOL... everyone is different. I increased my watts on the bike by riding with stronger riders.. I’ve never done an ftp test. Do you think it’s necessary? Love the channel!!!

[@trepidati0n533]

Nearly all training results in people getting fast/stronger. Whether or not it is optimal is the issue. The science says, and the data backs it, specific interval type trainings will result in more gains than "just doing what I want".

[@FunkyFaulc]

FTP test is designed to help you measure improvement, set your effective training zones, and get rough estimates for how to pace endurance events. If you just do group rides and aren't following a power based training plan then there would be little utility to you training with power .

[@robinrdale8318]

300 + ftp target for next year

[@chriswalker3257]

Prefer the ramp test over 20 min test! Im out...

[@steveoneill3538]

The vid seems to be aimed at "normal" people but all data and examples is about elite athletes. There very different to us . Also, bugs me that the aim of the training is about increasing ftp, vo² etc and you will race faster as a byproduct. Why not train to race faster and ur ftp will increase as a byproduct

[@lorcanfisher1824]

Race ye 🥴

[@marksheehangolfcourses4722]

a golfer as well?!