AuDHD: The Science of Autism & ADHD (with Joris Lechêne) | Sci Guys Podcast

This week Joris joins us to chat about combined Autism & ADHD, or AuDHD!
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References & Further Reading
"Autism
www.cdc.gov/ncbddd/autism/hcp...
www.cdc.gov/ncbddd/autism/dat...
www.bma.org.uk/what-we-do/pop...
www.nhs.uk/conditions/autism/...
ADHD
www.cdc.gov/ncbddd/adhd/diagn...
www.cdc.gov/ncbddd/adhd/data....
cks.nice.org.uk/topics/attent...
AuDHD
www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/1...
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/arti....
bmcmedicine.biomedcentral.com...
www.sciencedirect.com/science...
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/arti...
www.stir.ac.uk/people/1677005"

[@SciGuys]

Do you have autism or ADHD? Or perhaps both? Grab yourself a ticket to our live show: sciguys.co.uk/tickets

[@patmccarthy7907]

we think adhd but for now it will be a mystery, a mysterious mystery that makes my life actively difficult and trains a bad idea alone as they come with the risk of accidental manchester

[@soda9121]

I have adhd but its likely that I also have Autism

[@TheGreatEvan]

both

[@eethvamp]

I have both ADHD and autism.

[@arsonist127]

the answer is yes

[@ericcarabetta1161]

According to the 2023 US Department of Labor, approximately 85% of autistic adults with a college education, are unemployed. *85%!*

[@Authentistic-ism]

It's ridiculous isn't it? So many of us are uniquely qualified for nice jobs but the workforce is not accommodating as a whole. I know many autistic adults like myself who have dropped out of the workforce and some have even qualified for disability checks instead because it's burning us out to even try to compete with neurotypical and employment norms

[@saggguy7]

While the number of unemployed autistic adults is probably very high, this is likely a large overestimation because most autistic adults with college educations are not diagnosed, especially not oficially, and an official diagnosis is usually required to be counted in data like this. If you can pretend to be neurotypical enough to get through higher education, the likelihood of a professional granting you an autism diagnosis is next to 0.

[@ericcarabetta1161]

@@saggguy7, that is absolutely not true. Getting through higher education, and maintaining a job, are two entirely different animals.

[@saggguy7]

@@ericcarabetta1161 I don't know what part of my comment this is supposed to be a response to? I didn't say anything about the accessibility of higher education vs having a job.

[@ericcarabetta1161]

@@saggguy7, your entire statement was based on the presumption that the number of unemployed is overestimated, because they'd be polling people with a college education. And, if you were able to "pretend to be neurotypical enough to get through higher education, the likelihood of a professional granting you an autism diagnosis is next to 0". So, what you're saying is, if someone was _really_ autistic, then they couldn't possibly make it through college, and the "autistic" people that were polled, weren't actually "officially" autistic.

[@tophermurphy]

"I really need routine, but I'm terrible at creating them." OMG I knew I had ADHD, but now I'm thinking I have both.

[@DJgregBrown]

My life

[@JennaGetsCreative]

The whole "autism didn't exist" 100 years ago thing- My grandmother will be 100 years old in January and any time the topic of conversation moves around to autism or anything tangentially related she's very sure to tell me that nobody was autistic when she was growing up. I keep telling her that they were, they just weren't identified because it was a century ago.

[@IExpectedBSJustNotThisMuchBS]

As someone who is AuDHD and just 22 years younger than your grandmother, I can attest that people weren’t diagnosed, but we were definitely there being different, struggling due to difference, etc. I really don’t understand that mindset.

[@JennaGetsCreative]

@@IExpectedBSJustNotThisMuchBS Yeah, I don't understand that mindset either. Especially since she's perfectly willing to accept that trans people really are the gender they say they are because she accepts the psych and brain scan studies out there that prove their brains really do function in line with their claimed gender. You accept that but autism wasn't real?

[@karenholmes6565]

My mom and father were both on the spectrum. There was just no word for that except perhaps "eccentric" My dad would be in his 80s if he was still alive. I would just tell your grandma to think of all the people she knows that were slightly "off", those were the autistic folks. People who were profoundly intellectually disabled and autistic existed as well, those folks just weren't out in the world where she could see them

[@robokill387]

I mean, autism wasn't even defined as a diagnosis 100 years ago. We just got diagnosed as "schizophrenic."

[@JennaGetsCreative]

@@robokill387 Oh for sure, autism has only been defined in any way for about 60 years, but the people we still have from my grandmother's generation will deny that people got those alternate diagnoses either. Because most wouldn't. All level1 and probably most level 2 autistics today would not have any diagnosis at all back then. Doesn't mean there weren't level 1 and 2 autistic people.

[@karenholmes6565]

I am 55 yrs old and I self diagnosed in March. Since then it has been a process of self discovery. It is traumatic to go through the world knowing you are different but not quite being able to express how that is so. Some people think I am one of the most brilliant people they've ever met, others thinking I am incompetent or perhaps intellectually disabled. It has been a confusing and isolating life. Finally having a word that encompasses that experience, knowing I am not alone and that perhaps my experience can help younger women, that is meaningful for me.

[@johnrice1943]

Men too, you sexist. Lol

[@thiel_spencer]

I appreciate the touch on the changing of labels from asperger's syndrome to autism! My older brother was diagnosed with aspergers originally. The different label for experiences on the same spectrum always struck me as hierarchical and unfair. I find it to be very reminiscent to my own experience with dyslexia and being told I'm "too high functioning" to be worth a proper diagnosis. Meaning, I didn't get accommodations for school because they refused to diagnose me as I was doing "well enough"

[@holyspacemonkey]

49:46 Comorbidity is associated with increased delay in diagnosis 1:03:07 Thinking with feelings and feeling with thoughts

[@fifinoir]

1:10:33 this thing that I feel I can do and others notice is the very reason people don’t believe I’m autistic. I can sense the sad/ lonely person in the room full of people that no one is paying attention to but often their emotions are too much for me to bare or I don’t know what actions to take to help or even if they want help. 1:14:00 my special interest is definitely people. Psychology, religion, philosophy, criminal behaviour, education.

[@VanessaDayleRaeWaggoner]

I am this way too

[@Jun1_p3r_]

I'm diagnosed with autism and ADHD and I'm so happy to see people finally talk about AuDHD because not many people have and even still do talk about it.

[@rbarber]

I found my diagnostic assessment traumatic for a slightly different reason. She commented on every "social mistake" I made in the conversation in real time until I just felt humiliated and socially anxious.

[@nataliatheweirdo]

this! i remember telling my therapist once 'im just waiting for you to tell me that im biting my nails or something' and she just like laughed it off? XD

[@IExpectedBSJustNotThisMuchBS]

I object to the idea that autism isn’t disabling if you are employed-not that that was said per se, but I’ve met people who seem to think if you’re employed, you can’t have a disability. I have lived my life with chemical sensitivities and was later disabled fully by ME/CFS (after showing symptoms much of my life). Those chemical sensitivities were disabling when it came to work. It greatly restricted my employment choices. Also, being autistic brought with it challenges that my co-workers may not have encountered. From florescent lights to dealing with men who couldn’t handle my direct manner in the workplace and I haven’t even touched on the social aspect of this. Perhaps some autistics live in a world where being autistic has in no way been disabling and more power to them. I can’t imagine that this is the reality for the vast majority. If we don’t see the barriers does that mean they’re not there?

[@eev14]

So much to relate to in this episode! I was a 'gifted' girl but I talked too much and 'if I only focused better' I would be able to do anything I wanted, I then went to secondary school starting at a high level form of education and ended up dropping down due to different pressures around me and my ADHD finally catching up with me. Then around 14/15 I got diagnosed with 'generalized anxiety' and agoraphobia (the agoraphobia was a real thing I struggled with, the anxiety was just a symptom of my ADHD and years of bullying). I ended up dropping out as I was both chronically ill, caring for my little brother with autism (and it was a very significant learning disability for him), and being forced into the communicator role between my parents amidst their divorce. I'd always gotten by without doing homework but in secondary school it became impossible to do so and because of being sick a lot I missed many school days as well, I felt like a huge failure but also felt upset knowing that school itself wouldn't have been hard for me if only I had the circumstances to be able to focus on it. Then after secondary school I tried 1 year of art school but I was still sick, burned out and depressed, then from ages 21 to 26 I had severe bulimia, got treatment for it and whilst in treatment for bulimia I realized I was leaning on addictive behaviors to deal with something I had been suppressing essentially my entire life, at 27 I got diagnosed with ADHD. I'm turning 30 in a month and just a week ago a psychiatrist suggested to me it may be wise to also be officially tested for autism, I felt like I'd finally made peace with having ADHD and being on medication for nearly 3 years now has been helpful, I had dismissed the idea of potentially having both ADHD and autism but I now realize I have more to learn about how different autism can look in different people. My little brother was diagnosed at a very young age (around 5-6 years old), my older brother and I got tested at that time but our IQ tests came out high and so we were brushed aside as just being 'gifted', this was nearly 20 years ago so the understanding around ADHD and autism were very limited. To me autism was defined by things I'd seen in my little brother; a learning disability, delayed development in both motor and verbal functioning and even physical delayed development, hyperfixations on particular hobbies and toys, and an extreme aversion to change.. like any time we would go anywhere for a family day like the zoo he'd cry and scream for hours because he didn't understand where we were going, then after being at the zoo (or wherever) for an extended period of time he'd finally enjoy himself but then when we'd leave he'd cry all over again and wouldn't want to go home. I saw him do things like dangerously running into the road and I had to keep him safe at all times, one time we'd lost sight of him and I ended up finding him playing naked in a creek near our house with another little girl his age (he was about 4 years old at that time), some of my schoolmates had seen it happen and I was bullied for it, my parents also frequently berated me for not paying attention to him well enough. Our family for the longest time was defined by trying to make sure my little brother stayed safe and would adjust to society as he grew up. All this to say that.. I never seriously considered I could have autism since my little brother's experience was what I knew and my experience was always secondary or not important as I was the middle child, only girl and was 'gifted'. Now as an adult I'm the one without a degree or a job, my family have now all expressed regret in not supporting me when I was younger but honestly my childhood and teenage years ended up being so chaotic and traumatic that it's hard to make sense of now that it's been so long. Only through the internet with podcasts like this and reading scientific articles as well as other people's experience am I getting more understanding about autism.

[@robokill387]

Just to say - if an autistic person has a learning disability, then it is autism + a learning disability, autism itself isn't a learning disability, and you can be severely autistic without having a learning disability and vice versa.

[@Yarnofthewild]

I relate so much to this. I'm Nonbinary but was socialized/assigned female at birth. My little brother was diagnosed around 3-4 years old and I was always seen as "Gifted and Talented" is what they'd call it. I spent my entire childhood and going adult life being the sole emotional caretaker for him because our mom was so bogged down with her own PTSD and Depression (and probably undiagnosed ADHD + Autism as well) which she never sought help for, so she was in constant burnout, that she could never really be there for us. I was essentially his mom and dad as his older sibling, so my needs were barely ever met. Not his fault at all and he did what he could to be there for me too. Now that I'm 30 and have been out of that space for about 12 years I'm finally looking back and seeing that I'm likely Autistic and our mom probably is too along with her having ADHD too, but because those not being diagnosed/ acknowledged in people socialized as girls, we went under the radar... plus she's loved in denial all her life, but that's separate and stems from generational trauma..her mom, my grandma was probably Autistic, but with her being indigenous and living along the Mexican American border when it was first being established, her family felt they needed too assimilate for safety...well it's just a lot to unpack. Essentially, I feel this comment pretty hard, and I just wanted to say that you're not alone and I'm glad you've gotten some of the care you needed and sounds like you're currently getting care as well 💜

[@Kagomai15]

You're like a mirror image of me omg

[@arsonist127]

i'm 35 minutes into the episode and i have decided to force my ableist mother to watch and learn from this.

[@Jzombi301]

did she accept and retain the knowledge or did she refuse or purposefully forget?

[@arsonist127]

@@Jzombi301 she refused to even watch this… BUT THIS COMMENT HITTT.. so real. she often refuses to even listen and forgets everything.. but at least i’ve gotten her to understand some of my sensory issues. she doesn’t complain about my headphone and glove wearing that much anymore👍🏼

[@Jzombi301]

@@arsonist127 well thats a good thing i guess. take a win where you can

[@coyoteinthepool]

​@arsonist127 I hope she continues to make teeny steps of some kind to at least allow you to be in the world in ways that work for you. Sigh. That sounds so frustrating and my parents are similar in some ways. I would love to show them, but they just.... wouldn't. Or they would, be uncomfortable, and then forget it all and connect nothing to real life.

[@withyoctopus]

Can you get help from outside of the family? Don't wait for years. It's going to have lasting impact.

[@jombii-7090]

1:13:14 This right here, ive had SO many people describe me like this. "Youre so cool, calm and collected AJ. Youre such a cool guy" mostly because im processing so much information in case someone asks me a question or im thinking of a response to a conversation topic 10 minutes ago so im completely silent

[@fifinoir]

53:23 this moment made me cry and is the reason being Autistic and having ADHD can be such a mindfnck battle. I crave and need routine for my soul but can’t plan one or execute one at all. It’s like I’m fighting myself. It’s exhausting. No wonder I got fibromyalgia.

[@GeekGamer666]

This is the best discussion I've seen about this topic. It's really awesome because as someone with both Autism and ADHD it's frustrating (for the reasons mentioned in the discussion) that discussions about Autism or ADHD never quite fully explain my experience, and often don't discuss how those differences exist for people with both.

[@domsusefulstuff]

Lechêne's description of multiple conversations is so spot on. The way they just start talking in the middle of other people's conversations is so bizarre. Two people talking to you at once while two other people have broken off into their own discussion-they force you to ignore someone and get mad when you do or when you try to resolve it. It's all grey area and we inevitably get blamed for not choosing the right shade.

[@skepticsquirrel7560]

The part about social cues and literal thinking was too relatable

[@ausomebeak]

This episode is au-some (😮 autistic person does a joke!!) Joris is a great guest and has a new insts follower too now! Thank you, Corry and Luke. Yet another Sci-guys episode I want to share with everyone I know (and if I could, literally MAKE them watch it!).

[@robokill387]

My friend tried to get assessed for autism, but was turned down by his therapist because he has ADHD.

[@jrr2045]

Wow. Joris has an amazing ability to add a nuanced perspective to these discussions. Such a good guest to have on!

[@adamalkhawaja2003]

I'm autistic and I have ADHD! I'm so fucking excited for this episode!!!!

[@vazzaroth]

I wish there would be a serious move to categorize these definitional words we have invented between at least 2 catagories: "Endpoints" and "Startpoints". Anxiety is currently thought of as something that "just occurs", but I think anyone that has spent ANY time researching mental health knows that it's ACTUALLY a SYMPTOM (not a cause!) of like 25 different things. As well as it's own 'disorder'. But if you are given this "endpoint" that can be helpful. Meds, therapies, etc. But it shouldn't be, imo, the end of your 'understanding yourself' journey! I work in IT (AuDHD lol) and saying you have anxiety is like saying your workstation is down. It's not a REASON, it's an outcome. Saying you have autism is more like saying you have a virus, or a program you're meant to have isn't installed. It's a REASON, not an outcome. A cause, not an effect. It's so frustrating to see these categorical mis-matches being used daily with no discussion of this in the professional medical world! If these were my IT peers I'd tell them their words need to be significantly more clear and they need to perform more troubleshooting before handing off the ticket, lol. Trauma is a startpoint, Autism is a startpoint, birth defects are a startpoint, bodily injuries are startpoints. Anxiety, Depression, dissociation, psychosis (Maybe even schizophrenia based on what I've been reading about cutting edge studies!), and generally abberant BEHAVIOUR (The things a person outside of you can observe concretely) are all endpoints. Terminations of different causes. The fact that people who are paid like 200K a year NEVER EVER discuss this or really lament it or seem to have ANY interest in fixing this clear, glaring issue makes me SO ANGRY! The logic of this medical model is SO self-referential, paradoxical, and nonsense!!! And they call US the idiosyncratic ones! >:() Edit: Ha, I didn't even get to the part where Joris talks about this! great show.

[@RattyMcRatson]

Omg Joris is great! I'm so glad you got him on the pod!!

[@janApen]

I love Joris’ perspective on all of this 💜. Appreciate you being on 💜.

[@Emily-fh8en]

Would love an episode on "algorithm diagnosis" i.e. why tiktok thinks I have xyz disorders/how that happens/if it's valid

[@Kagomai15]

Try around the minute 45 mark where they talk about Autism and TikTok

[@erycnelson329]

AuDHD, here! I have an official adhd diagnosis, and am self diagnosed autistic. My therapist agrees that I'm autistic, but actually urged me not to seek an official diagnosis, because it could work against me. Funny thing, all of my autistic friends thought I was diagnosed autistic, because we have so many similarities.

[@pigeonshit440]

mood and a half. isn't it awful that it can hurt rather than help? like you can't become a naturalized citizen of NZ if you have an autism diagnosis... yikes

[@ayv3552]

as an autistic trans girl with adhd, i'm very excited for this episode!

[@patmccarthy7907]

oh sick waving creature [idk what like words you're comfortable with so imagive your favourite dudette or equitable word here]

[@jh5401]

fuck yeah same!!

[@evieyak]

SAME ❤️❤️❤️

[@CleoPinto4317]

maybe same (no autism diagnosis but i may have it)

[@StarshipVGer]

I'm an Autistic Trans Guy with ADHD!! so much fun being all three things, eh?

[@zsuzsisz9263]

This is such perfect timing for this episode I'm near the end of my adhd diagnosis where based on my answers there they referred me to get diagnosed for autism too😅 Watching this while I'm waiting for my last online psychiatrists appointment for adhd😊

[@cuartemi6582]

The having a hard time to jump into a conversation and then people thinking you’re cool (& in my case frequently intimidating) is so relatable

[@utuelias]

1:14:25: Funnily enough, I didn't get an autism diagnosis because my special interest (or one of the few) has been people. Since I was a child. And I'm 31 now. I've studied both psychology and linguistics for quite a while so yes, of course I'm able to operate in a test setting where I have time to think and focus. But real life where you might need intuition because of all the chaos happening at the same time? Not so much. (Luckily I at least got an ADHD diagnosis, which will help as well. But still, it bothers me that due to not being seen as autistic my constant overwhelm is now just seen as anxiety - a thing that I should learn to manage. I mean... by this point I've learnt to manage my stress from overwhelm so damn well that I tend to not notice my anxiety before I hit the wall. Managing anxiety even more shouldn't be the thing I need to learn - but to set boundaries and manage my environment so that I wouldn't spiral into burnout again and again and again.)

[@CAnatone]

I watched this last night and kept thinking about what you were saying about the two ways people are approaching thinking about the "causes" (for lack of a better word) of ASD and ADHD. For some reason, when you said it, I immediately knew what you meant, even though it sounds like you are describing the same exact thing. I think my subconscious brain understood it but my conscious mind was like...are you sure? After thinking about it, this is what I came up with to help explain it (at least to my conscious brain). Scenario 1: A ball of clay cracks. When it cracks, the result is ASD. That same ball of clay can also melt. When it melts, the result is ADHD. Scenario 2: A ball of clay cracks. When it cracks, it could result in one of three things happening: ASD, ADHD, or a mix of both. In both scenarios, the ball of clay is the catalyst, but it is what happens to that ball of clay and what that triggers or does not trigger that makes the difference. Now, in scenario 2, why does the ball of clay cracking cause one or the other or both? That is the question, isn't it? Is it random? Are there other factors at play? Thanks for this interview. I will definitely be thinking about this as I try to shut off my brain when I am trying to fall asleep. That happens anyway, but at least now, I have something interesting to get in the way of my sleep. Lol.

[@patmccarthy7907]

oh nice its that well informed person who does the hand thing, yk like talking about the history of a place and doing the 🤌in the left corner when they say a vowel on reels

[@c0niferal]

1:03:03 thinking your feelings & feeling your thinking, this is extremely relatable. Including the bit about therapy & trying to change that when actually that Does feel like just how I am? Being able to Recognise my emotions is important for me to learn but I still, months in, struggle with the idea that I shouldn't be thinking my feelings

[@RolfTheCat]

So, the Monday this was uploaded, I found out that my dad has cancer. At the time we didn’t know how bad it was, but I was so scared and so sad. Im a teen girl and I have autism, my dad has some of the same interests as me like taking photos and urban exploring so I was very scared of losing him since he is my closest family member. (We know now that he has a treatable cancer, but it still sucks that he has cancer) when this episode was uploaded I didn’t listen to it right away, since I was sad. But then I decided that I should listen to it since it makes me happier. But the review. That review, was a review I wrote. It made my day a little bit better that they saw it and read it, I get so excited when people I absolutely adore notice me, it brightens my day. :]

[@DeeDeeMandark]

It is crazy that listening this podcast helped me understand myself more than anything else honestly

[@emkphotography]

I found this entire video thoroughly enjoyable! Thanks!! :D

[@alexwhitelaw2003]

I'm hyper fixed by people aswell and people believe I'm so social but that's only when I'm out the house if people only new how little I leave my house cuz it's so overwhelming

[@jerichoburg7065]

I have an ADHD diagnosis but am self-diagnosed autistic. While I was getting the ADHD diagnosis, the psychologist kept pointing out things that I later realized were autistic traits, but he never seemed to consider that I might be autistic, I guess because I was a 54-year-old woman who was "personable," "kind," and "funny" (words he used to describe me in the report). They only notice what they are looking for.

[@janApen]

Like 80% sure I have audhd myself. Really nice to see this episode and I feel all there is to discuss was barely scratched the surface of. Love the show and love to hear you all talk about something that hits home so strongly 💜. My experience with hyperfixations and special interests is a weird mix of the two where so will fixate for a week to a month on something (like coding) and learn a tone but I will cycle between all these hyper fixations every year making them long term, several I have had over half my life and slowly make progress on them. It’s a weird world when they both intersect. Also possible episode on Pathological Demand Avoidances (The subset of autism) in the future? Seems like another good topic in a similar vein to this. shhhh I’m not just recommending smothering thing I think I have, I would never do such a thing XD.

[@MathStatsMe]

Holy cow! So much of this was so relatable! I'm am an undiagnosed, suspected auDHD-er. I used to teach high school math, but have thankfully switched to teaching only college math classes. The whole "I can sense exactly how you are feeling, but don't know what to do about it" is paralyzing when I work with teenagers who don't want to be there! Put me in front of adults paying tuition to hear me ramble on about my special interest while they write down and hang on my every word and I'm in heaven! 😆 Thanks for the entertainment, information, and validation!

[@purpledaydreamer9682]

I love the fuzzy edges explanation :)

[@5210smile]

I love the car wheelchair analogy

[@zeroinfinity3325]

I'm autistic (not offically diagnosed, but I've been screened for it by a psych and he said if I went for an actual diagnosis, I would be diagnosed.) and I'm pretty sure I also have adhd. I didn't even consider it until I heard people talk about their experiences with adhd and was like "oh hey im like that too" which lead me to look into it more and it explains A LOT of my behaviours. I went through the diagnostic criteria and I tick all the boxes for the inattentive type. I even talked to my mum about it and she fits a lot of the criteria too (she is also autistic), so I know where I got it from lmao.

[@adrianavanleeuwen7981]

Thanks!

[@xmusikkaosx]

i have both, thankyou for making this episode

[@outsideaglass]

Very interesting when Joris explains special interest of people - I might be that.... My life makes so much more sense now

[@sylve2474]

I think with the conversation about there being an underlying thing that causes both adhd and autism can be compared in a sense with adhd inatentive vs hyperactive type, that its all adhd but shows differently, that idea kind of explains that both adhd and autism could be stemming from that same thing, but show differently as adhd and autism how inatentive and hyperactive can show differently(except with adhd, its not really separated since most have some of both,,, although the idea could also be just like adhd that a good chunk of people have both adhd and autism,,, so,,, i think that might make sense to people)

[@ruthmurdoch1742]

I was diagnosed with autism in 2022 and was given the choice of whether I wanted to go by the dsm5 label of ASD or the DSM4 label of Asperger’s. For a medical professional to still be offering outdated labels like Asperger’s still outrages me to this day!!

[@johnrice1943]

I'm from the future and it outrages me that you still call it asd. In the future we call it smeepratz. How dare you choose to call your diagnosis asd!

[@JennaGetsCreative]

I'm autistic and many family members are ADHD. I don't think I'm AuDHD but I have friends who are.

[@Star_Rattler]

When you were talking about the different types of empathy, I think what you actually meant was. There's empathy, there's sympathy, and then there's compassion and warmth. Empathy is I feel what you feel. Sympathy is I understand how you feel. Compassion is I don't feel how you feel and I don't understand how you feel, but I'm going to treat you the best way that I can anyway because I care about you. Empathy is literally defined as feeling what others feel. If you don't feel what others feel then that's not empathy. From my experience, there are many autistic people who struggle with empathy. It's not that maybe they're not capable of it. It's just that it's very difficult most of the time. And then on the opposite end you have people who have way too much empathy. So much so that it causes them stress in daily life because they give personalities to inanimate objects and attach feelings to these inanimate. Objects like stuffed animals light bulbs hangers just literally anything.

[@Star_Rattler]

And to add-on to that as well, because I forgot to mention something, autistic people can still feel a lot of empathy like you said , but just not be able to express it outwardly with their expressions with their face and with their tone of voice. They are still feeling empathy, but it just isn't portrayed on the outside. Therefore, people will go oh autistic people just don't feel empathy, even though we do. It's just hard to express it sometimes, especially when we're going through a lot. When we're going through big emotions, sometimes we'll have to use all of our energy just to process the emotion. And we won't have the energy to make facial expressions to put tone into our voice et cetera.

[@Authentistic-ism]

I was diagnosed autistic while I was a homeless adult. And while I think I've always been autistic, I'm starting to wonder about ADHD now too. I feel like the extensive neurocognitive assessments being given while I was experiencing Street homelessness and substance abuse withdrawal may have affected my results. I've been sober and rehoused in a program now for 3 years and I can have a better idea of how my brain works in a safe environment and I'm definitely convinced I might pass the ADHD assessment now.

[@shasita3361]

I just read that there are about 200k people diagnosed with autism in the Netherlands, and 51% of them is unemployed :(

[@ryanjamesloyd6733]

Thank you guys for this. I identify heavily with Joris. I'm almost certainly AuDHD. I'm nearly 50, so I just had no prayer of diagnosis, and really in the US the expense and pain in the ass of convincing pros of that fact is pointless- there's not any accommodations for it Anyway, knowing it is more about self-knowledge. Mine wouldn't have been caught Anyway, because though I'm a white boy, I'm the Artsy-Dreamer manifestation of these things, (gifted with learning disabilities, High masking, Big Feels, executive function issues, temporal issues, antiauthoritarian tendencies, various weird sensitivities that I can mask Unless I get overwhelmed... it's really like rerouting function around a starship as damage is taken, if that makes sense) point being i'm Not the trains and math and puzzles type, and so most people wouldn't believe me, unless my mask slips and I infodump about special interests in which case they discover I'm a Weirdo. *sigh Anyway, good show. (interesting point on the social cues: I also tend to be hyperaware of them- Both the ones they are Projecting and the ones they are Masking. Or I will see something that's obviously there, but I can't tell quite what it is. So I have trouble figuring out- ok, So this person is Projecting one thing, Masking another, and there's something else weird going on, and I have no idea do I go with the Pretense, what's Real, or ask them about the weird thing I'm probably not supposed to have spotted.... It's exhausting, particularly as the Pretense makes no sense to me. Every little subculture has a slightly different script and ways you're "supposed to" deal with it, and it's arbitrary and ridiculous. I just don't know)

[@deadlymelody27]

Whenever Corry describes his ADHD it makes me certain I have it. Because literally the school stuff was me. The annoyingness and ability to just collect random facts and the want to hyperfixate on something for a while is me. But i went for an austism diagnosis a few years ago and they said i wasnt it was just my anxiety and im pretty sure they were wrong. But now it could be adhd and i literally do not want to get tested because of the fear of rejection on another thing. Ughhhhh. But i can literally talk for england and its been brought up at every school report and in every job and I'm literally 31 in a week.

[@Kagomai15]

So an official diagnosis for one or both of those can be a useful tool and/or cause new problems. If you think they will help you then definitely take steps to acquire them, but what really helps about the labels is the communities and resources and information they open up to you. Like, I didn't believe my therapist when she told me I had ADHD, but after reading a bunch of articles on ADDitude magazine and the other ADHD website, and following How To ADHD on KZbin, and trying new routines and strategies to get things done instead of trying and failing advice for and from neurotypicals- that's the stuff that really helps. I thought of it like this, "whatever my brain is, if I try stuff and it works better than what I was doing before, that can only be a good thing."

[@RolfTheCat]

Im autistic, I got diagnosed mid this year, I’ve been going to therapists, psychologists and psychiatrist since late 2020. I’ve been told to just “live with it” because I apparently don’t have a lot of autism (I cannot go into a supermarket by myself without having a panic attack because there’s to many people, I also can’t pay with my card because I’m scared of it not working).

[@alexwhitelaw2003]

is it bad that I'm crying hearing you all talking about this and I feel like I have people who are the same as me

[@crownprincesslaya2]

57:07 great point!

[@nio804]

The way you described picking up on but not knowing what to do with social cues describes me way too well...

[@good4gaby]

This podcast has validated a culmination of ideas I’ve longtime considered regarding the ADD/autism overlap…and as always leaves me with more questions. .. and even more fuzzy wuzzy comorbidities to reckon with😅woooohooooo 🤯

[@starting-fires]

every time you make an episode about autism i find out new stuff about myself that i link back to me being autistic. i can never escape it's always the bloody autism

[@TheEnbyDragon]

I self diagnosed myself autistic due to similar circumstances. I was also hyper socially aware. It wasn't until my son was being looked at as potentially having it that i started looking into more recent research by autistic people. I mentioned it to my autistic friends and they each were like "yeah, that's probably why we get along so well". That started before tiktok, but a couple days ago some coworkers were criticizing the autism on tiktok "trend" complaining that now "everybody" has autism and that somehow a world full of autistic people would be "scary". I questioned why it would be scary and i think i surprised her, cause she tried to answer but... didn't. They're about 7-8 years younger than i am, and i struggle to have actual conversations with them, but I've since come up with the best response that I'll probably never say cause they'll probably avoid the topic with me 🙃

[@TheEnbyDragon]

Also, when i asked my doctor about looking into a diagnosis her response was "i didn't think you could get diagnosed as an adult". That's where that ended, and i haven't pursued it cause gender treatment is more pressing, and i can only do one thing at a time with the cost of US healthcare

[@meganmindcreates]

(I have adhd and potentially asd) I was at my doctors office and I was telling him something and he said, "thats kind of autistic" Then he goes on if you have asd you'd be on the low end of the spectrum. but like he also said that I don't need to go get diagnosed... and I was like why would you tell me this! Im obviously going to indulge myself until I learn everything about asd. As I did that I realize the I do have it. It was a shocker to me because it explains SOO much to me and all the things I did and still do. Im learning about validation. I know i'm not going to get validated from my mom because she thinks Im using it as an excuse and she would tell me that I just gotta do it and stop being that way. (Something along the lines) But I want her validation but then I have to really remember that God is validating me and he cares for me. no wonder why I don't feel like people get me. I will say my cousin Mayo gets me. I call her my translator cause she knows me so well...

[@Kagomai15]

Actually I think they've even changed it from "ADHD subtypes" to "ADHD presentation" haven't they? For the very reason that it's all the same disorder, folks just present differently. Inattentive ADHD is just being hyperactive inside your head. We're all the "combined type".

[@DJgregBrown]

OMG Autism Mum I though that was a phrase I created for my personal name for them. great minds think alike! As an Adult diagnosed at 37, and a break down and burn out or anxiety and depression. First thing i said was I not Autistic. But the NHS said Aspirgers(ASD)+(Major ASHS trait) and possible dyspraxia. I am awaiting ADHD formal diagnoses dyspraxia testing within NHS now. It taken me time to understand why I broken and get C-PTSD. I hate getting call High functioning it demean the struggles I have still just because I learn to mask them. Yes I high a more advance social ability that I can mask and social in small burst but people don't understand I have to work hard at it and struggle with sleeplessness and major fatigue. It's like the DWP always offering training like I am unemployed because no skill, when the reason is I unemployable because I can't mask more than 20min-1hour and then people notice I am weird to them and I might down something customers might not like or colleagues might get offended by. Like I might say something meaning it in a totally innocent way and they mistake that and I get fire, also the sleeplessness and fatigue mean I am shit at most work often falling asleep on the job. Employer now that and that what stops me working. I wouldn't take me on and I now that from when I was younger and could mask stronger and did employment interviews on new staff and understand what the employers think like when looking for a good employ they want someone who be on time or better early every day. people organised, energetic and basic standard I can only hold together at 43 now for minutes not hour. I find the most annoying Autism thing is other talking about us rather than ask us what we see and hear etc. Label P-ss me of as I'm retarded and Aspergers, I don't have development issue's as I'M a big man and strong as hell physically, I also can learn the faqct I live in a world where the teaching is on poor quality thats not me being slow in development. I can learn at same speed I learn the write BBC basic at 8 860x0 assembly at 12, built a custom Amiga 86030 based pc at 13 in 1993. Reading all the info and learning out of books at home. but left school at 15 because I didn't learn at school, I can't write by hand because of the autism than un diagnosed. I was told countless time I could have ADHD because I was bright because I could code, but constantly got told must focus in class more and stop play the class clown etc. Life with ADHD and Autism is boring and depressing. I and always bored, but if I push myself and god can't I do it. No body is tougher then I am on myself when I want some thing to work. unfortunately it over whelms me pushing myself as I miss my rediculas targets. Socialising because group always challenged me so I have to either be leading the crowd or in a group of one or less as more than face to face I struggle to talk at right times and follow all the voices. I was annoying to me that people shout in busy places like shouting will allow me to hear them better but if to much noise in background I can not split the noise between where it is form it turn like white noise. Same as when people hear I am Autistic they start speecking to me like I am slow which upset me as slow people speeck the hard it is for me to focus on them and not look and the beautiful tree out side the windows because of my ADHD. I get a lot of help with autism, but ADHD is a mine field I still trying to understand that part of me but I not my ADHD trait are the worse and most problematic. ADHD vs AUTISM routine fights boredom. Hyperfocus fights unfocused. Autism making you stim, ADHD make you lack empathy with your self and gets embarrassed your stimming freak, is wanting to learn but can''t not get fixated on the clock on the world. I can dress but 55minute to do a shoe lace? The way the Medical industry focus on mobility scoring you level of disability level. I struugle but people don't see that as I hid it as I can't show it as easy because 37 years of bullying and being classed as trouble take a lot of unprogramming, I go in to mask mode and that leads to people saying you not autistic etc, As I say to them if I am a fake thank you that mean I must have a higher IQ than I now know that I have after year of being told I was slow and thick because I struggle to learn in the ways others do. PS You can tell I ASPIE I try to right a simple reply and it turn into a page essay.

[@Authentistic-ism]

Deep-diving on Executive dysfunction ever since my diagnosis. I have both brain injury and autism. I'm starting to wonder if it's also going to be ADHD too. I think I might go in for another assessment. But yeah. I definitely experienced executive dysfunction of its own flavor for each of those three conditions as well as PTSD if you want to count that. Executive dysfunction isn't the same for everything. It's just a way of describing something that's out of the typical, again

[@HIGHLANDER_ONLY_ONE]

I'm autistic - ASD and have ADHD, thus AuDHD. My comorbidities are; OCD, PDA, Missophonia, and Dyslexia.

[@IExpectedBSJustNotThisMuchBS]

AuDHD got both diagnoses back when people typically only got one. (Late 1990s for ADHD and 2008 for autism. Different providers and with the second, a Clinical Psychologist who specialised in brain issues / disability, was aware of the previous diagnosis.)

[@MDiL22]

I believe I have both. My diagnosis sessions are scheduled for February 2024

[@bullitlover]

This might not be the best way to describe it, but the second idea sounds like a coin flip where there is a 50% chance for heads or tails, but also a 50% chance that it lands on it's side. Somewhere around 1:21:00

[@jones-wq1de]

i think i have both but i'm not officially diagnosed (yet). i tried getting an autism diagnosis because i already suspected it and then a therapist suggested i might be autistic without me even talking about it and recommended that i try to get diagnosed. But according to the psychiatrist i kept 'appropriate' eye-contact (which i practised as a teenager, yay masking) and when my mom was asked about childhood symptoms she didn't 'remember' anything, so i didn't get the diagnosis... My mom told me about some 'weird' stuff i did as a kid a few weeks later but i guess because she's convinced that i can't be autistic she didn't want to remember anything during the appointment 🙃 The psychiatrist suggested i might have an adjustment disorder, which doesn't even explain like half of my symptoms so yeah, i still think its autism/audhd

[@PaulaStueckendamm]

I have both and life is hilarious

[@criticalmaz1609]

I do indeed have both, and have recently inrolled in a university so that I may study them professionally. Actually, the way they brought it up in one of my first-year papers was infuriatingly, pathetically, disgustingly bad. The professor basically showed a clip of a child having a meltdown and said "There, that's autism, and the parents are saints for putting up with them." 🤬😤😡

[@Satankat666]

I got into an argument one with someone when playing eve online. My husband at the time messaged them behind my back and told them they should just back down, that I was autistic and would not. I wasn't even the one telling them i was autistic and they told me I was using it as an excuse to be rude (not quite in those words). Basically can't win. Tell people about being autistic and it's apparently just an excuse, don't tell them and they don't understand. I had someone come to the door complaining about something fairly recently, something that needed my boyfriend to deal with it rather than me, I told them I would tell them and they just kept going on and i was just really uncomfortable and get anxiety just from people being at the door. When they spoke to my boyfriend they told him I was smirking at them, apparently they were apologetic when they heard I have autism and actually they had read me wrong.

[@mahrinui18]

39:30 your analogy is actually even better than you realized, since the distinction between green and blue is itself culturally bound! Plenty of languages and cultures don't differentiate them at all

[@SciGuys]

We realised, we've discussed just that many times before - just not in this episode.

[@WerstoftheWorst]

Why do you 2 look like the same person just aged slightly

[@Johnny_T779]

Ain't it? They look like cousins or brothers 😁

[@dovestone_]

Fr!

[@vynneve]

ikr! I literally thought it was just a cut away to another episode when Joris first talked 😂😂 They literally look like identical twins, at least from that angle at the start.

[@ocdbrain]

Lmao

[@Drawoon]

both is good

[@IExpectedBSJustNotThisMuchBS]

I actually miss cues and I’ll see cues and be overwhelmed with information if I am a part of the interaction and I actually have the experience of not knowing what to do or I have selective mutism. Watching others, I still miss cues, but many times see things that allistics seem to miss and so I do better understanding what’s going on when I’m not part of the interaction. I particularly pick up when they miss understand each other.

[@poppy1963]

I'm a cis woman diagnosed with autism and think I have ADHD, at the start of this video I'm excited to learn more about comorbidity since I've struggled to find information so far

[@jessicadillon5020]

I love learning more about ADHD and autism. I was diagnosed with ADHD ( inattentive type) and other disorders but I suspect that I may have autism as well. Before I got diagnosed some of my symptoms for ADHD really were affecting me to some degree.Then after my diagnosis, my symptoms became more obvious and some other problems l had before had resurfaced. The additional problems l have been experiencing may be autism. Why l didn’t think l could have autism was because I didn’t think I completely fit the criteria. Yet, as the months go by I’m noticing that I do relate to the signs of autism which I didn’t expect. Strange enough l’ve recently been meeting people that say that they think that they are on the spectrum.I guess that’s a hint that I should really look into if am in the spectrum too lol.

[@alexwhitelaw2003]

I can cope with change if I get to stay at home but if things change and I have to go out the house I will melt down and people accuse me of being crazy and wanting attemtion

[@PlutoPigeon]

I have both Cool guy syndrome and the tism

[@fender.vW.]

Got the package deal, I've got both :)

[@tessawilson4402]

The only thing I can think about is how much they look alike 😂

[@farisakhtar4824]

I know, I thought they were brothers when I first saw the thumbnail

[@potterlover96]

No diagnosis yet (in the process of being evaluated) but I'm pretty sure I have both, I have way too many symptoms and markers for it to just be a coincidence 😂 The bit about hyperfixation and special interests was interesting to me because I do experience both (SI is mythology) so experiencing both made me think I didn't actually experience either. Like Corry I have so many abandoned projects that I was sure were gonna be what I do for the rest of my life 😂

[@Gleamiarts]

i'm audhd! i was originally diagnosed with aspegers at ~8 but they vaguely mentioned i might also have adhd?? but i only found out when i was reading my report when i was applying for disabled student's allowance in uni and i finally got officially diagnosed with adhd as an adult after i graduated sometimes i feel like people just focus on the one when i mention it? like they'll only focus on my autism or my adhd, never both

[@dani1366631]

Both! 🏆

[@briar-rosethecrazy5839]

I just got diagnosed with AuDHD at the age of 17 (before I age out of the child safety system lol) along with a type of PTSD diagnosis (chronic lol)

[@jones-wq1de]

i personally think i have both, i don't have a diagnosis (yet) though

[@gemgwilliam]

Same

[@foolishalie]

I have autism , dyslexia and a anxiety disorder and maby a tad of ocd

[@5210smile]

They really should have changed the name completely, but ADD was better than ADHD. The hyperactivity isn't always visible and makes diagnosis and social acceptance harder.

[@kawag6356]

AuDHD here! It’s rough out there.

[@meganmindcreates]

adhd can also stand for Audacious driven & Hyper-creativity in Design

[@cuartemi6582]

I went to an open optional school with a lot of pressure, so while pretty much all of my classes there was a project that could include things I was interested in, so was very good for my adhd, it was also sooo terrible for others. They literally wanted a 100% graduation rate, so anybody who wasn’t going to do that got kicked out before their last semester 😬 Didn’t end up getting diagnosed till my last semester of college when all my classes were online, and my internship only had like 4 times I was supposed to be meeting with my advisor, and I was like, oh. It’s not supposed to be this hard? Unsure if I have autism, definitely some traits of it though that’s for sure

[@alexwhitelaw2003]

it's funny as a girl who was saw as either the smartest person or the naughtist person and couldn't of been autistic or ADHD 🎉I'm both

[@awestruckobject]

Both! 😁

[@sophiehanson8100]

Im a career for a lady with autism she's non verbal great gal but definitely will need help all her life and then my bestie is also autistic and has ADHD and she's married, owns her house and fostering a child. Ive not been diagnosed with anything but my friends always say I'm defo not right in my brain haha I'm now sober and trying to get my shit together and wondering if seeing if I can get I diagnosis will help like I have 2/3 phones I have got anxiety and depression (who don't) and I'm constantly questioning myself probably too much. Ive had EDS my from 18st to 7st I defo don't feel normal or what ever it is xx

[@arsonist127]

im 99% sure that have autism and adhd so i just know this vid is gonna have some very flabbergastingly accurate stuff about my behaviors

[@heyna1185]

I actually don‘t understand the difference between a hyperfixation and a special interest because I experience a very intense interest or fixation on various topics and some of them last a few days, some weeks, some months, some years and some have been present for essentially as long as I remember. If how long they last is the only factor, is there really a difference??

[@vynneve]

I'm not officially diagnosed, but I believe I would test as being in the spectrum. And while I have some traits that are similar to ADHD, I don't think I would reach that diagnostic criteria. aka Most likely ASD, no ADHD. I think you really need to be carful saying that TikTok is a good resource, maybe that was sarcastic? haha. It *can* be, but it can also be straight up wrong, and misinformation. If you learn something new on it, I always recommend fact checking it elsewhere. Also, whatever you were talking about at 1:22:00 the two "different" things, possibly, connecting ADHD & ASD, they still sound the same lol. Some other disorder linking both vs. an underlying cause...that disorder linking the both *would be* the underlying cause (or something closer to an underlying cause), they sound exactly the same 🤔anyone else see a distinction?