How Much Does It ACTUALLY Cost to Charge an EV?

[@scottmckenna]

Compare this to other EV average mi/kWh: (Your savings would be even higher with a more efficient EV. Tesla Model 3: 4.0-5.5 mi/kWh Tesla Model Y: 3.3-3.8 mi/kWh Kia EV6: 3.5-4.0 mi/kWh

[@themoretruthfultruth]

An EV vehicle (1:47)? So Electric Vehicle vehicle. People are so funny. And it is kilowatt hours, not kilowatts. Kilowatt is the flow rate and you have to add a time element to get power used. And I really doubt you are getting your electricity for $,08 per kWh. Average for Pennsylvania is $.1437.

[@jec5476]

Lucid Air Pure: 5mi/kWh

[@jjjohn5914]

Numbers drop as battery ages

[@jec5476]

@@jjjohn5914 Yes, I have a 2012 Tesla S (which I'll be ditching.) It's lost about 15% of its range. However, that's also very old battery technology now.

[@IceBergGeo]

​@@themoretruthfultruth he's probably not wrong, but it's being either deceptive or ignorant of the fact you also pay for the transmission of that electricity by the kWh too... Which ends up basically doubling the actual cost of each kWh you use. Time of day usage can also get you upside down, if you are signed up for that.

[@rayshepherd2479]

Here in California my cost to charge my car at home is 32 cents per kwh at the off peak rate. It was 12.7 cents when I purchased my first Tesla in 2014. So at my curren cost of electricity at my home the cost is 9.6 cents per mile. Using Nearby Tesla superchargers the cost is 46 cents per kwh or 13.8 cents per mile. Current price of gas where I live in Northern California is around $4.50 per gallon. So a Prius that gets 52 mpg would cost 8.7 cents per mile. There are a number of other hybrids that get above 40 mpg. At 40 mpg the cost is 11.3 cents per mile. A Toyota Camry gets 51 mpg so it would also be less than my Model S for fuel. Now my 427 Cobra I purchased in 1968 for $4995 only gets about 12 mpg and needs premium at about $4.70 per gallon. Cost per mile is about 40 cents per mile. However if you include depreciation/appreciation the life time ownership of my Cobra is a much better deal. When I sold my 2014 Tesla in 2023 my overall cost per mile including depreciation made it on of the most expensive cars per mile I have ever owned. That was the case even though I had free supercharging. One other fact is the cost of gasoline includes around $1.30 for fees and taxes. That's almost 30% of the cost of gasoline where I live in Northern California.

[@johng5642]

My rate in Orange County is 41 cents per KWH. Even worse. Hybrids make the most sense for me.

[@christophercharles3169]

@@johng5642 For anyone interested in some form of electrification.

[@rayshepherd2479]

@@johng5642 My 32 cents per kwh is the PG&E EV off peak rate. Peak rate is 50 cents in winter and 63 cents per kwh in summer. The basic PG&E E-1 rate is based on use rather than time of day. It's cost starts at around 40 cents per kwh and increases to around 50 cents per kwh depending on how much energy you use. So it makes sense to use the EV time of use schedule and charge your car at night during the off peak rate. By the way although a hybrid makes economic sense I replaced the 2014 Model S P85D with a Model S Plaid because I like the performance.

[@paulmoffat9306]

My home utility rate is currently $0.0988/kwh, with no off-peak rate (Manitoba Canada) Canadian currency --> $0.0711/Kwh US

[@randygreen7871]

Exactly, it's cheaper to drive our 2019 Camry Hybrid then an EV.

[@firecloud77]

➖➖ *_MEANWHILE:_* ➖➖ 1. You're paying about 40% more for an EV than an ICE vehicle. AND lose up to 50% resale value in the first year. 2. Higher insurance premiums. 3. Replace tires more often. 4. Range anxiety on longer trips. 5. Pathetic towing range. Um, I'll stay with my ICE vehicle.

[@JeffC-dj3gd]

My sentiments EXACTLY! Now I will admit that the reciprocating piston internal combustion engine is one of the MOST inefficient designs, bar none, but the negatives of BEVs are STILL much worse than ICE vehicles. Rotary ICE & turbines & steam may be some interesting designs to pursue, IMHO.

[@OMZCapital]

Lol...going on year number 6 and everything you just said is an effing joke plus most have money...I live in reality and ftards like you is what me and friends talk about...betcha you're a libtard ...you sad demented soul...

[@planesandbikes7353]

This is not true at all. The Tesla model 3 and Y cost the same or less than similar performing ICE cars. It is not in the same lower league as econoboxes like a Civic or Corolla. The depreciation of these two Teslas is not any quicker than it was for my mercedes or any domestic brand vehicles - but it is quicker than a Toyota for sure.

[@firecloud77]

@@planesandbikes7353 When comparing size classifications EV's cost around 40% more. Look it up.

[@firecloud77]

@@planesandbikes7353 WIRED published an article three months ago headlined: *EVs Are Losing Up to 50 Percent of Their Value in One Year*

[@navajojohn9448]

To each his own. With an ICE car no need for apps to find or worse yet make a plan to get refueled. gas stations are plentiful and have big signs showing the price of gas. Then the tank in the car can be filled in about the same time I empty my bladder. My home electricity is 11.6 cents kWh.

[@ram318yt]

No need, but I do use an app to find the cheapest gas, since there's up to a $1/gallon difference between the highest and lowest prices I see on my long road trips. With a 500+ mile range, I can be selective where i fuel up. Since even my pickup is costing me under 10c/mile, it's far cheaper than on the road recharging for an EV would be. My hatchback is currently about 6c/mile.

[@douggarson50]

It's not like climate change is real and reducing use of fossil fuels is a good thing.😡If you haven't noticed extreme weather events are getting more and more common.

[@davidanderson8469]

$0.47 in San Diego.

[@jww84]

Couple things I want to correct here... Tesla and EA don't deliver x amount of kilowatts per hour. The charging speed given by these stations is what is being delivered to the car at that specific moment. How fast or slow these numbers are is determined by the limitations of the charger and whatever your car is requesting from the charger. Some cars could take over 2 hours to charge at EA on a 350 and another can do it in 20 minutes. Yes I know this video is focused on the economics and not charging speeds but I felt it was important as well. Another thing you have to factor in for electric cars vs gas/diesel cars is charging losses. For the gas/diesel vehicles they will only put into their car what the tank will hold (assuming no spilling or filling of jerry cans). When charging your electric car it isn't 100% efficient, some of that energy you're trying to put into the battery will get lost as heat. Lets just say your battery size is 100 kWh, you might need to put in 110 kWh to charge that battery all the way (amount will vary based on plenty of factors). So you might have paid Tesla $5.20 for 10 kWh but maybe only 9 kWh actually got stored in your battery. For example I drive a KIA EV6 and my lifetime average is right around 4.1 miles per kWh according to the computer in my car. When I put all the energy delivered (my home charger gives me stats) into a spreadsheet vs the amount of miles driven I'm only averaging 3.6 miles per kWh. Also home charging rates vary wildly across the US. I consider myself lucky with $ .11 per kWh but I've seen people report they pay over $ .30 per kWh at home.

[@ernesstocaratiesto]

You are right on all your comments, but the main message of the video is still on point. Of course, different people have different circumstances and different needs but, for most people, the cost of driving an EV are roughly 3 times lower than the costs of driving an equivalent ICE as long as they charge at home.

[@Snerdles]

The charging losses at normal level 2 rates of power (like 32/40 amp) are usually less than 10%. So if you charge on average 20kWh worth of distance a day it's going to cost you about 22kWh worth of electricity. Another thing was the gas prices are priced including taxes and fees. The energy price excluded those. So the comparison isn't really fair. The next is comparing high fuel use gas cars to very efficient EVs. The next is comparing very high gas prices vs very low energy prices. The next is ignoring the cost of a circuit install and replacing the EVSE every 10 years or so when it fails. In my case I had to run 240 across my house and through walls so just to get the circuit installed is like 1300 bucks and then a decent charger is going to be a grand (because I need 2 connectors so need to use something like the Gizzl-E duo or 2 chargers that can load share a single circuit). The next is ignoring the greatest costs of a vehicle, the depreciation. The website IseeCars did a huge analysis found that on average hybrids lose about 30% of their value over 5 years and EVs are more like 50%. That means comparing so ethi g like a M3LR vs a civic hybrid the M3 is going to cost an extra 2-3 grand a year just in depreciation. That buys a ton of gas... There is so much going in to these equations and the variable changes by location and personal circumstances so it's kind of idiotic to compare them. These are tools like any other so just let people buy what fits their needs.

[@psdaengr911]

Anyone who owns a phone is familiar with the difference between what a charger is rated at and how much a device will accept at any time. I describe charger capacity to non-tech people as being like the fuse for a circuit. It's the most that you could draw at any time through that device. An LED lamp will draw very little, while a plug in heater will draw a lot. Both devices have maximum current and watt ratings on their label. Cars should too.

[@civwar64bob77]

@@Snerdles Just a small correction/addition. The Tesla stated supercharger price you see includes the tax. The rate depends on the state (and some states don't charge any tax for charging). Tesla users can find the invoice of every supercharging session they've done through their app.

[@iphonedoc]

"This has proven a consistent 94% to 95% charging efficiency. (AC to DC conversion losses and vehicle electronics overhead)" For superchargers, not 10%. It takes 5 seconds to Google the correct answers rather than guessing.

[@smittdog1965]

The key thing with owning an EV and saving money ..is charging from home. But if you have to use Charging Stations then you’re better off having a Gas vehicle !!

[@scottmckenna]

For most people, yes.

[@CharveL88]

Sure, if mobility cost savings is the ONLY benefit of a real EV (Tesla).

[@brianlopez8855]

Uk night time cheap rate is about 50c/kwh. Better start queuing for the electric bus now.

[@mbak7801]

@@brianlopez8855 Eh. NO! It is 9c per Kwh in the UK. You must have an especially expensive supply deal.

[@bubbagun42]

@@brianlopez8855 As low as 5c/KWh here in Ottawa Canada.

[@MCTeck]

My electric bill keeps going up. Why? Ev's! I got someone at So Cal Edison [electric power provider] to admit to this. Make sure to keep your eyes open, or you might robbed or car jacked waiting to charge your car, at these unsecured charging stations. Do not forget, the faster you charge, the shorter your battery life is. An ICE car you control,an Ev, It controls you, wait time and is the charger working? Is there a line? Time is $$$$.

[@planesandbikes7353]

You are controlled by world oil prices and government energy policies. The EV owner can be truly freed from this trap by having their own solar generation at home - no ICE owner can hope to have such independence! So not only do I enjoy my EV at 1/10 the cost per mile as an average ICE car using public Grid power, I have the choice at my fingertips to take it further and plug into my solar powered battery system and drive indefinitely on free energy. Bonus is: rolling blackouts or storm caused outages do not affect me either. Electric is 12 cents per KWHr where I am though - super dirt cheap - and where I live has the highest EV adoption in North America too! So of course, it is not EVs that drive up electricity cost, it's more about who you vote for.

[@jeffbroders9781]

​@planesandbikes7353 better to have competition between oil companies that keep prices reasonable instead of being a slave to the utility companies that you have no control over. 😅

[@erth2man]

@@planesandbikes7353 A friend bought his first EV. The insurance premium increased over the ICE car he traded so much that it alone would have covered my entire gas bill for my average yearly usage. The overall cost increase of trading to an EV doesn't even come close when all differences are calculated.

[@CharveL88]

The sheer amount of re7ardation in this post is mesmerizing. How did you manage to even pass a driver's test if you can't even do some basic research about your long-debunked preconceptions?

[@Pappy7064]

@@planesandbikes7353 Where do the EV owners get the electricity to charge their EV's? Oh yea from oil, natural gas, coal, nuclear, solar, wind etc. so I guess EV owners are also controlled by world energy prices. Sorry to burst your bubble.

[@chenerikku]

Nah wait hold on, I see you did the national average for gas prices, but why not do the same with home electric? 8 cents is dirt cheap, if I had that rate then yeah, EV would be a no-brainer. Last I checked my bill, I was averaging like 0.26/kwh. I still would be saving money probably. Also, did you include the delivery? Some people calculate based on only supply rate, I still don't understand why, its not like they could choose to not pay for the delivery.

[@JohnS-yo5yt]

More like .47 a KW in CA offpeak!

[@trevorpowell6439]

Actually if you check your rate, I'm sure your of peak is significantly less than that. That's the real benefit of home charging, you leave your vehicle plugged in and charging overnight at the lowest possible rate. No need to go to a charging station when you wake up and your vehicle is fully charged.

[@sd70cal]

@@JohnS-yo5yt Use Super-Offpeak. It's .35 kWh.

[@bigdougscommentary5719]

@@JohnS-yo5ytyou’re making stuff up. Show us a pic of your electric bill with .47/kwh off peak.

[@scottmckenna]

You’re living in the wrong. CA gas is also like $7.00 a gallon in that state that wrips people off so bad. I would never live there.

[@planesandbikes7353]

Here in BC it costs us about 1/10 as much per mile to drive our Model 3, compared to my Gas mercedes or Tundra, just for the energy. Or 1/6 as much as my Crosstrek. But our hydroelectricity is cheap and our gas has a lot more taxes on it than in most US states.

[@mikky03]

I know he's talking about charging cost for using an EV but, you have to look at the whole picture not just the difference gas and electricity cost. You also have to look at the cost of maintenance i.e., Oil changes, tune ups, etc. JMO

[@foxlake6750]

Some states are charging an EV road tax….which they should be paying.

[@nephetula]

"Tune-ups" are a thing of the past.

[@iphonedoc]

@@foxlake6750 They aren't charging it yet. Of course the Democrats who want everyone to get them are the ones who now want to add a road tax. But some regions say 'Hey great lets just charge everybody, not just EVs.' They propose a device to report your mileage would be required in ALL cars.

[@1001Hobbies]

@@iphonedoc - There is an EV road tax here in Ohio. $200 a year (every year) for a full EV, $150 for a plug-in Hybrid.

[@1001Hobbies]

The difference in price for an EV versus an ICE makes up for maintenance, especially when you do it yourself. It is half price, or even less, to do the oil change yourself. I paid $14,000 in 2014 for a 2012 Ford Focus Hatchback with 16,000 miles on it, which is what I drive every year. It has a manual transmission (which I've had in all my vehicles since 1991) so no inherent transmission problem. I won't buy a newer car because of all the data collecting they do on you. You didn't think "over the air" updates was for YOUR convenience, did you? They can download all that data at any time. Where you went. How many you took with you. Whether they were adults or kids. How many times you went there. How you accelerate. How you brake. What times you are on the road. What kinds of habits this activity supports. What personality traits your travel is typical of. Then this data is sold to a Data Collection Company. That company contacts your insurance company to see if they are interested in what kind of driver you are. They sell that info to the insurance company and they see you slammed your brakes on 3 times in one week! You must be driving hazardously. However, these were the times someone almost hit you while backing out of a parking space, a deer jumped out in front of your car, and a road worker stepped outside of the protection barrier. Never mind.....your rates are going up. I also don't want the coffee maker, well drilling attachment, and satellite tracking software in my vehicle. I don't want to pay for them, and I don't want them to be there to break down. Meanwhile, my $14,000 ($22,400 original sticker price) has 175,500 miles on it and it has never had any major problems. I had to replace the upper shock mounts in the rear, so I replaced those shocks at the same time. I also had to replace the coolant water outlet (kinda of a coolant hose junction housing) as the gasket went bad and part of the gasket lip was broken. Other than those 2 things, everything else was regular maintenance, and it still runs like new and its great gas mileage. It is also fun to drive, and I don't have to worry about a big screen going bad, or all the stuff you can control with the screen failing.

[@IMRROcom]

It is nice that you avoid all the road Taxes and milage Taxes that is baked into gas TAX. Once the government figures out how much they lose in road taxes, the milage TAX will be next.

[@SteveCChapman]

Tesla owners in OH, PA, WV, VA, NC area pay typically $0.30 to $0.40 cents per kWh. Some chargers are less expensive at off peak times. Ford, Rivian, etc owners that use Tesla Superchargers pay an additional premium for the convenience, and reliability!

[@scottmckenna]

Correct. That's why I put *Non member pricing

[@SteveCChapman]

@@scottmckennaBTW I pay 16 cents per kWh at home for level 2 charging in NE Ohio

[@CharveL88]

I'd advise you to move to Canada...but we're already full as it turns out. I pay 9 cents CDN / kWh offpeak. Fuel savings alone since getting a Model 3 are staggering. I need something else to spend this money on...

[@johndough82]

You will need all those free charges to pay for that $10k or higher battery. Everyone always leaves that cost out. Funny how that is.

[@bnight.7996]

The likely need to replace the battery is the same as how often you need to replace the entire engine on an ice vehicle. I’m not disagreeing with the cost, just failed batteries that need replacement for the percentage of cars is still lower for ev’s. If you are still uncomfortable with the lower likelihood of a battery replacement then you still have the option of an ice vehicle or hybrid. For the record I own an ice vehicle and hybrid and have replaced equivalent cost items on both cars, including 2 hybrid batteries. New and used cars have pluses and minuses.

[@johndough82]

@bnight.7996 with me being in the automotive industry and speaking with our customers who supply to Ford and also speaking directly to Ford themselves and other manufacturers, this isn't the story we are being told about the longevity of the batteries and other components as well. Which is why companies, including ours, are being requested from these manufacturers to do more R&D to come up with ways of prolonging the batteries and other components. Trust me when I say, EVs are not 100% there yet. Not close. Even the infrastructure isn't there yet. Think of California having blackouts. Officials telling residents to shut off their AC and whatever else to help the power grid. And that was long before EVs came along. Now, California is trying to force you to buy an EV by law. Yet...California is still having blackouts. That makes a TON of sense.

[@DavidJSamko]

Just add NJ to trying to force you to buy an EV. Now once you start to make EV vans I’d look at that with Solar panels up top for an RV conversion.

[@jimsEVadventures]

I can replace the drive battery in my EV every 100,000 miles (which is 99.9999% of the time NEVER needed) and still come out ahead of the costs for owning a gasoline powered car every day of the week and twice on Sunday. It is not that "every always leave that cost out," it is the FACT that it is a moot point only brought up by people who are clueless about EVs. It is funny how people who have never owned one, driven one, or ridden in one all of a sudden become "experts" on Social Media. I have driven ICE cars over 1,000,000 miles and EVs over 100,000 miles now! Who would have the most "expertise" in a situation where someone who has NEVER owned or driven one wants to make a point for which they have ZERO clue?

[@reuveng1960]

Battery are going to outlast the vehicle it self. Also EVs are almost zero maintenance, No oil change, no spark plus, air/oil filters and very little moving parts. Brake pads will last at least 100K miles thanks to the regen braking.

[@mikeransom1168]

What doesn't seem to be taken into account on any of the cost comparison sites I've seen, is that states are getting savvy about collecting road taxes EV's are not paying at the gas pumps. States are starting to assume that you drive some fictitious number of miles, (No matter what your actual average yearly mileage is.) and just add the road taxes they are missing at the pump, to your yearly registration fees. Which skews these cost comparison sites. By how much, depends on the state your in.

[@mikecrooks8085]

Wait till they (govt) realize that EV's are chewing roads up at ate far beyond what ECI do it will really be fun if/when they get a lot of electric trucks going. Taxes , Fees, and more taxes. If they don't get them from the consumer directly they will get it from the power companies, the grid, charging stations, and ultimately the consumer will pay it in higher prices.

[@Realist-m9c]

In Victoria, Australia they were actually taking odometer readings yearly and adding a 2.8 cents per/km amount to yearly registration fees. The High Court found this to be unconstitutional and now refunds have been ordered.

[@davidlucius4387]

The time to charge and the frequency of charging is an issue for those who want to travel more than 250miles. You also need to figure out milage reduces when using accessories such as ac and heating. Lastly electric battery efficiency goes way down during cold weather, hard to avoid in the northeast. I would think the best bet would be a hybrid vehicle

[@softwarephil1709]

The current residential rate in Nashville TN is 11 cents/kWh. But it’s higher during peak seasons. My wife gets >60 MPG with her Prius.

[@iphonedoc]

Who wants to drive a Prius? Compare that to a Tesla that can drive itself. When will a Prius get full self driving? Oh yeah. Never. By the way if your wife tells you she gets 60 or more MPG with her Prius you better see what else she is lying about. "Toyota Prius MPG · 2023 · 48.6 Avg MPG · 43 Vehicles · 1,455 Fuel-ups · 519,112 Miles Tracked ..." From Google. Best I could find is estimated at 57. Sorry Phil.

[@SlardybardfastUSA]

Negative. you forgot to add the distributions costs of about the same amount for a total energy cost of ~ 20 cents per kilowatt hour.

[@softwarephil1709]

@@iphonedoc We can get in the Prius and drive from Tennessee to California without recharging. All we have to do is stop for about 10 minutes at any of the hundreds of gas stations on the route. Can you do that in your Tesla?

[@iphonedoc]

@@softwarephil1709 Oh I wish I had one. Nope, can't do it cause I don't have one and even if I did it would be impossible to convince you of anything. You don't understand and probably never will. Your mind is made up. Click on this URL (at the end) to see the route from Nashville to LA on the Tesla website. It shows the route and chrger locations and how long to charge. It is a 33 hour trip of 1800 miles. The longest stop is 60 minutes which may be more than your ICE mind can stand. Remember this is straight thru. When I was young I used to do those kind of trips. Alone. Now I am older and if I had a wife or kids this would be a 3 day trip. And do you have pets? So this is an example which you can check out and from your post I am sure you will take your Prius. Remember life isn't always a race. Now since you have to hand drive you will be much more tired whereas the self driving of a Tesla is much less tiring accordong to ALL claims. My choice is the Tesla. Here is that URL: www.tesla.com/trips#/?v=M3_2020_LongRange&o=1043%20Cooper%20St,%20Memphis,%20TN%2038104,%20USA_1043%20Cooper%20St%20Cooper-Young@35.1170611,-89.9915346&s=&d=Los%20Angeles,%20CA,%20USA_Los%20Angeles%20Los%20Angeles%20County%20CA@34.0549076,-118.242643 This a safe URL from the Tesla website.

[@americansfortruthandjustic7504]

How about long term cost comparison? Maintenance costs over 10 years including EV battery replacement. Nice that homeowners can charge EVs at home overnight

[@randshelton9588]

You don't have to do oil changes and other maintenance associated with gasoline vehicles..

[@iphonedoc]

"The average battery life of a Tesla is between 300,000 and 500,000 miles, or 1,500 battery charge cycles. This translates to a battery life of 22 to 37 years for the average driver, who drives 13,476 miles per year." Google it.

[@chrisbraid2907]

Another much ignored advantage is Regen. No other technology adds energy back into the vehicle for merely rolling downhill, the best you can hope for is Zero fuel usage …it might not convert quite as much as is used on the climb but it comes very cheaply ….

[@americansfortruthandjustic7504]

@@randshelton9588 ok. Let's say 10 years of oil changes is about $1,000 and ten years of gas might be $24,000. 120k miles will be about 30,000kW which may cost about $9000 then a $10,000 battery change on top of that? The comparison narrows significantly.

[@06colkurtz]

You need to include the replacement cost of the battery. Each charge reduces battery life. Fast charging does MORE damage to the battery.

[@sd70cal]

Many batteries are getting 200K life. Newer cars have better battery charge management and battery temp control so battery damage not as much of a thing now. Most people only need to slow charge for their daily needs. What about all those people who do 10K oil changes or skip them because of time or cost? Or those who tow frequently?

[@williamtone3099]

I didn't see where you factored in the cost of the home charger and installation of it. Wouldn't that make a difference in the cost?

[@scottmckenna]

Not in my opinion, because that's a one time thing.

[@SlardybardfastUSA]

You will also never see the cost of the replacement battery and the disposal of the dead battery included in these calculations.

[@jeffscarff1655]

@@scottmckenna That is short sighted, it's a start-up cost that needs to be factored in. It's a lot of money that an ICE car won't have to spend.

[@seaplaneguy1]

52 cents/kwh x 33.7 kwh/gallon = $17.52/ gallon equivalent to gasoline. That does NOT include road tax or battery costs. Road tax should be 4 cents/mile and battery is 10 cents/mile ($15,000/150,000 miles = 10 c/mile). Total is 14 cents/mile at 133 MPGe. 133 x 0.14= $18.62/gallon gasoline. Total cost is $17.52 + $18.62 = $36.14/gallon. $36.14/133 MPGe = 27.2 cents/mile. New combustion tech will be 200 MPG average (150 MPG HWY, 240 city) or 1.5x better than and EV at 133 MPGe. 1.5 x 36.14 = $54.21/gallon with new combustion tech. New RE fuel from solar thermal will be $1/gal. $1/200 MPG = 0.5 cents/mile. 27.2/0.5 = 54.4 times more for EV. No EV will be able to compete with new combustion. HINT. As for CO2, the battery and 100% RE grid will be 800 gCO2/kwh at the wheel. Combustion will be 4 at the wheel with 100% RE fuel made OFF grid. Actually home charging will be 60 cents/kwh with a 100% RE grid. Super charger will be 90 cents/kwh. That is $20 to $30/gallon. RE fuel is $1/gal. So, 20 to 30 times MORE for EV...

[@victormiranda9163]

I do like the new combustion tech comment. and all that followed... In the interest of being completely transparent, I can only mis-quote Greenspan "you may not have meant what I read"

[@seaplaneguy1]

@@victormiranda9163 No I meant what I wrote. I am the engineer and I know how to achieve the above comment. Combustion bans are preventing investors. Maybe if Trump ends the mandates on EVs and bans on combustion, I can get the funding to get this done 3 to 4 times faster. It unplugs the CO2 scam, btw.

[@victormiranda9163]

@@seaplaneguy1 I think I did understand your comment. also, I could see/hear where it could be taken wrong. luck on the project, I do know how long it takes to complete self funded research.

[@iphonedoc]

Huh? What are you trying to say? I can't decipher your comment. So you think some newly discovered miracle will give 200 MPG? I've got a real nice bridge I am tryiing to sell. You won't see that tech in your lifetime, if ever. Your figures are woefully wrong."The average battery life of a Tesla is between 300,000 and 500,000 miles, or 1,500 battery charge cycles. This translates to a battery life of 22 to 37 years for the average driver, who drives 13,476 miles per year." So your battery cost is at least twice the real cost. How much is the cost of 15 years of oil changes and tuneups, etc. plus the cost of a new engine. "Nissan quoting $16500 for a full engine replacement - Reddit"

[@67daltonknox]

In California, Superchargers are 58cents/kWh during daytime.

[@TJW68]

$3.75/gallon? Where do you live? I paid $2.659 yesterday at Costco. The regular price in the Twin Cites is around $3.10/gallon

[@mrbob9399]

Best price where I live is $3.79/gal if you pay cash at a off brand station. Nearby brand name station is $4.89/gal. Side note, home electric rates are 32cents/kw off peak and 51cents/kw peak.

[@andrewkelly1225]

ya, he is using bogus numbers to drive his narrative.

[@rupe53]

@@andrewkelly1225 he's really using what is local to him. 100 miles away I pay $2.95 for gas and 30 cents / Kw because the state just added a new surcharge. I would also bet he's pulling that 8 cents from the data on his bill without giving a second thought to the other charges. My per Kw fee" is only 10 cents but with distribution, transmission, fuel adjustment, state surcharges, and taxes, it's just over 30 cents. IOW, to fill up that 250 Kw battery to 80% at home will be near $60 in electricity. That's hardly an incentive if it's only $10 difference twice a month.

[@ronportillo3851]

It still would be more to fill up your tank. You don't get 100 miles per mile on your car.

[@rupe53]

@@ronportillo3851 If you read my example (above) you would see the difference narrows by a bunch at 30 cents / Kw and less than $3 a gallon.

[@ThePzrLdr]

Home electric rate is much higher than stated. Mine is 15 cents p/kw off peak. Gas is actually $2.79 currently.

[@scotthensley8083]

So I have to pay for everybody's free charging and repay their student loans?

[@scottmckenna]

The hotel and airports are paying for the charging. Not your taxes.

[@mplsgordon2]

Well if a hotel offers free charging, it's part of the bill the guests pay. It's also voluntary, unlike student loan repayment. If the government lets students off the hook and agrees to take on the debt, that finds its way to your tax bill. If Hampton Inn offers free charging, that's a cost Hampton Inn bears, and passes on in some way to its customers.

[@robgrey6183]

I live in Wyoming: -These things won't charge at -20 F. -These things won't take you anywhere at -20 F. -You run the heat in these things, it will limit your range drastically. So, no heat at -20 F.? -These things all have limited road clearance to increase range. I have to drive on roads with 6" of unplowed snow. These things get stuck. Yeah, these are great for southern California. The rest of us, not so much.

[@scottmckenna]

It doesn’t sound like it would be the best solution for you. I live in the northeast where we get low temperatures, and it’s fine but range is definitely decreased.

[@bairdjc]

1) know what you pay for electricity. I pay $0.285/kWh which is high. The national average in the US is around $0.16/kWh 2) know how efficient your vehicle is - most Tesla's will be around 3-4 miles per kWh. A Ford Lightning is more like 2 miles/kWh 3) divide the two to determine your cost per mile. No one should care about how much it costs to "fill up" as ranges will be lower with EV's, the cost to "fill up" could be less than an ICE even though the cost per mile is more. example - for me @ $0.285 and 3-4 m/kWh (e.g. generic tesla), it would cost on the order of 7-10 cents per mile to drive. Meanwhile my hybrid CRV that gets 40mpg @ $2.80/gallon, it costs me about 7 cents per mile to drive. The above does not include inefficiencies in charging - there are thermal losses, so to get 50kWh in a battery pay might take more like 52 or 53 kWh from the utility.

[@scottmckenna]

1. I know what I pay. It's 8 cents. I have a cool thing called a bill that I looked at. 2. I have a Ford Lightning, and In the last 2,500 miles, my average is 2.5/kWh like I said. 3. Is that how Math works?

[@rupe53]

@@scottmckenna now take your WHOLE bill and divide it by Kw used so you include all the state taxes, transmission, distribution, wire maintenance, and fuel adjustment fees. IOW, not just the cents per Kw on that one line. I only pay 10 cents per Kw but looking at the big picture (just 100 miles away from you) my bill is around 30 cents per Kw. Yeah, 8 cents is "pie in the sky" for the rest of this country.

[@dfarmer_]

@@scottmckenna Where do you live getting $.08? I thought $.14 was cheap and that's just for supply, not including the other charges, taxes, etc.

[@elonever.2.071]

How does it work when like you said you plug your EV into a free charger at the airport and leave it there for a day or more while you are gone? It seems to me that would be really inconsiderate to prevent someone else from using that charger until you get back.

[@19king14]

But how long will the free chargers be free? In time they will charge, just like they now even charge for the air to fill your tires!

[@sd70cal]

Many businesses will continue to offer low level free charging to entice people to come and spend. Sort of like a loss-leader.

[@SmooveBee1]

The charging of, for example, 1kWhr into a battery is not 100% efficient; so the question is, where are you measuring the kwhr: at the charger during charge (more kWh) or at the battery while driving (less kWhr);I would suggest measuring at the charger during charging.

[@TSinRM]

I live in California, and have driven my Tesla model Y from SoCal to NorCal several times this year. On average, the cost per kWh at Tesla chargers has been around 44 cents per kWh, and the average price per gallon of gas here is $4.46 (Per AAA's website today), so our savings are even greater here. The flip side to my situation is home charging costs more than the .09 cents in your example. Either way, who misses going to a gas station?

[@scottmckenna]

I agree. EVs are great.

[@cc-tb3st]

$.44 per kwh getting 4 miles per kwh is $.11 a mile $4.46 a gallon of gas in an equivalent size car getting 30 mpg is $.148 cents a mile. Not much of a savings to justify the extra time spent charging vs buying gas. And you can get cars that get 40 to 50 mpg that would cost less than charging. My Prius Prime gets 55mpg over 271,000 average and is actually roomy inside. Gas is so expensive in California because the government is forcing adoption of electric vehicles and taxes on gas. It's a self inflicted wound. In Texas, I buy gas for $2.17 sometimes and haven't been over $2.50 in months. At $2.50 and 30mpg that's 8 cents a mile. Electric isn't cheaper in states that aren't forcing adoption of electric vehicles. When you add time to the equation it can get ridiculous. Sure, you can charge at home and save that time but that requires planning and possibly installing expensive equipment. I'm not against electric but believe hybrid is a much better method. I wish I had a generator hooked to batteries that supplied power to the drive motors.

[@civwar64bob77]

@@cc-tb3st Yes, you are correct comparing highway driving ICE vs. EVs - the cost is about the same. Where you save is if you can charge at home mostly with lots of local and daily driving. Then it comes out to 1/3 to 1/4 the price of gas on a per mile basis. Mixed use: Going on a round trip of 350 miles to visit relatives (with a short 10 minute stop to charge enough to get home) ends up for me about 1/2 the price of my gas car (accounting for the home charging upon return - I did not forget that)

[@bjb7587]

​@@civwar64bob77 oh good. A real example rather than math.

[@softwarephil1709]

I would miss gas station stops on a trip if I had to pee. Normally, my time stopped at a gas station is less than 10 minutes. What’s your normal charging time?

[@breckfreeride]

How long does it take to charge at home?

[@jamesn3513]

The dirty little secret about electric vehicles is that electricity has no road tax associated with it. Gasoline has a road tax added to every gallon. Someday the government will have to tax EV electricity to pay for the roads.

[@colonelfustercluck486]

as they have just done in NZ. Road taxes have become law here, for electric cars.

[@jamesn3513]

@@colonelfustercluck486 Very interesting. How are EVs being taxed. Is it by miles driven or electricity used? And how is it being monitored? Thank you

[@colonelfustercluck486]

@@jamesn3513 miles/Km driven at certain weight ratings 1 ton, 2 ton 3 ton etc So you buy a ticket for 5 or 10,000 Km for a 2 ton max weight as an example. The ticket has the car details and the milage maximum as the ticket runs out. It must be displayed on your windshield.The same as diesel vehicles in NZ since forever. So they didn't have to design a scheme from the ground up. Gasoline / Petrol cars pay the tax as part of buying their fuel. It's in the price. It is displayed on your windsheild, and your odometer gets checked if you are stopped by police. (I am not sure if they have it easily available over a computer, they probably do.) I guess they have milage records that are cross referenced as when you register your vehicle every year, or get a Warrant of Fitness (Compulsory vehicle safety inspection) that is 6 monthly for old cars and annually for new and modern cars under a certain age. There is a bit of cheating, but you see a lot prosecuted in the Court for this, so they must be cross referenced off something like the Registration or WOF. It seems to be only the 'losers' that attempt it, and they get caught. Hybrids are charged differently, but I don't really know anything about how that goes.

[@markentress1286]

@@jamesn3513 They're now starting to extract fees annually with renewal of the plate or inspection in some states. Not a secret any longer.

[@fubolibs4218]

They charged more in tegistation fees. Texas charge 75 bucks for gas cars but 200 bucks for EVs.

[@jasongolihew5034]

where are you getting your home electricity at 8 cents/ kWh? Average residential rate in PA is 17.45 cents / kWh.

[@bigblockdodge745]

He has an extension cord from the guy next door.....

[@SlardybardfastUSA]

He convienently forgot to add the distribution cost of electricity....which will typically double the cost per kilowatt hour.

[@dallasgombash5381]

Hotels require you to stay there. airport parking is like $10+/day. I've seen dealerships have free chargers but I guess they are expecting you to trade in your vehicle for the $4 of electricity they give you?

[@scottmckenna]

Your facts aren’t correct. PHL airport doesn’t charge you anything for charging and neither do the majority of hotels that I stay at. You have to pay for parking of course just like anyone else at the airport, but the charging is free.

[@gappmast9712]

$10 a day for parking you are living back in the 80s

[@locke8881]

Here in California I’m on a plan where I pay 22cents a KW at home during off peak hours and at work they supply chargers for 25 cents a KW. It works out pretty good. I get about 80 miles for $5

[@scottmckenna]

Nice.

[@christophercharles3169]

The reality is that once the number of EVs that require charging reaches a point where the grid needs to be upgraded to meet growing capacity demands, the rates to charge EVs using the charging network will increase significantly and this will eventually impact our home electricity costs as well. Don't believe, for one second, that you will be saving any money what so ever by purchasing an EV. We all know where this is going.

[@pezomarko]

you can, however, get solar panels and charge cheaper, they get better investment return the more the electricity prices go up. You can't get fuel refinery or oil pump that cheaply or easily.

[@christophercharles3169]

@@pezomarko The jury is out on the exact return on investment from solar panels. Imagine the glut of dead or dying solar panels in 10-20 years if everyone did it. There is no recycling solution.

[@neilharvey94]

Yeah, except if you live in California where AI says the following for PG&E costs: As of July 1, 2024, the average residential bundled non-CARE rate for PG&E is 43.15 cents per kilowatt-hour (kWh). However, the cost per kWh can range from 34 to 72 cents depending on the rate plan and time of year.

[@7andydroid7]

EV charging is generally cheaper than gas NOW, but it is virtually certain that this will not be the case in the future. This situation is essentially the same as a company pricing its product at an "introductory sale" level, to create interest and a market. There is ZERO chance that electric rates will stay where they are now if EVs become a large component of electrical use in the future. The ONLY way that electrical rates will have a chance to increase at a lesser rate than they will using our current power infrastructure is for that infrastructure to change to include a SIGNIFICANT increase in the percentage of electricity generated by nuclear energy, which unfortunately does not look very likely, at least in the short term. Solar and wind WILL NOT generate enough power at a cheaper rate in order to 'replace" nuclear. There just isn't enough energy density in either of those sources for that to be possible. It is possible, however, that general home usage may not be swept up in the EV-generated electrical pricing of the future though, as it is possible to differentiate between the power to a house and to a charging station at that house, and to charge a different rate for each, which will at least minimize the penalty that non-ev electrical use will bear as the rates increase due to higher demand from evs. Remember; the total AMOUNT of energy used will basically be the same no matter what the source of that energy is; it will simply have a greater amount of it be in the form of electricity relative to liquid fuels or other.

[@natehill8069]

Also as ICE cars disappear gas will get really cheap again. And then stations will become rare. Coal wont be used at all. The world turns, life moves on. Tough to get horses shod these days.

[@foxlake6750]

What about depreciation? It’s the highest cost of car owner. So far, it looks like EVs have a higher rate of depreciation

[@natehill8069]

@@foxlake6750 Hard to say. EVs are still new so its like computers, the next generation kills the previous one pretty fast cause its way more capable. On the other hand in the US most people who bought one new got a huge discount, and used ones arent going to sell for more than new ones so that caps the price. Once the rebates go away it will probably be exactly the same as ICE cars.

[@7andydroid7]

@@foxlake6750 very good point.

[@callmebigpapa]

For me replacing my vehicle that gets13mpg with a BEV will pay for the new vehicle just in gas savings alone vs gassers. I own 2 vehicles a Sequoia and a XB below are the fuel cost estimates that make it a no brainer to go BEV, at least for me, but due to the distance of many of my trips an E-Bike would work for me about 50% of my trips: Fuel considerations for my personal use case: sequoia 1200mile@13mpg@3.29/gal $303.00/mo, 3600/yr scion xb 1200mile@28mpg@3.29/gal $141.00/mo,1629/yr model 3 1200mile@.10kwh $28.00/mo,336/yr

[@dave3657]

Could you do the calculation for an apartment dweller on the third floor. My parking spot is not assigned. There are no free chargers near me.

[@scottmckenna]

$1,000,000 per month.

[@natehill8069]

@@scottmckenna The big part of the cost is the 10-ton crane to lift the car up to his bedroom window so he can plug it in.

[@dort5436]

My electric cost is .46 per KW. My current van gets 20 miles per gallon but I drive it about 3 days a week. It's paid for and insurance is reasonable. It makes no cents for me to spend money on something new and expensive to drive 12 miles 3 days a week

[@xiaowei1]

To add to the mix, in Australia, you can get free electricity at home on an EV plan. I have free power form 11:00am to 2:00pm. This is because we have so much solar on roofs, suppliers can play the negative market for electricity that is created during high production times. We also have $0.08 per kw/h off peak between 12:00am and 6:00am. Rest assured, they stinging us for peak time, 4:00pm to 9:00pm which for me is about $0.53 per kw/h. Luckily, I have a home battery which charges up for free during the day, so this does not impact me too much (Home batteries in Australia are still quite uncommon). Solar on the roof also assists for other times during the day, so this is a great investment - it is a shame solar in America specifically costs so much, as it puts energy independence out of reach for so many people. In Australia, a 6.6kw system is under $3500 (after rebates) which is about $2,276 USD. The point being, it is possible to live without paying for petrol, and not have to worry about your electricity bill too. There is a large capital outlay to begin with, but the dividends start paying immediately.

[@Realist-m9c]

In Western Australia there is NO off peak tariff, the current rate is 27c/kw and 102c per day connection fee, and solar systems are government mandated to a maximum of 6kw. It is not easy to get cheap electricity with such restrictions.

[@xiaowei1]

@Realist-m9c In WA, you can certainly have more than 6kw systems, you just need to have 3 phase power - So it is certainly achievable; Perth Solar Ware House has a 13kw system for $5790. OVO energy is in WA. Check out their EV plans. Alternately, a quick google shows Synergy Electric Vehicle Add On Plan has Super Off Peak electricity charging 8.4c per Kw which runs from 9am to 3pm. That is long enough to completely recharge your car. At the same time, charge up a battery during this time, and your night time usage is very cheap; you don't need solar to do this, but is certain would not hurt to have it. If you are not accessing off peak times, then you need a smart meter to do this. Hope that assists.

[@andrewfranson4756]

Three things about your home charging calculations. 1) Home charging is pretty much limited to homeowners, renters are largely left out of the convenience of home charging. 2) you need to add the cost of the charging infrastructure and installation to your home charging cost, that stuff isn't free. 3) finally there is your statement that charging from home will always be cheaper doesn't account for rate increases. We saw an 18.5% increase last year, that doubles the cost of electricity every 4 years. In light of the fact that this big push to electrify transportation doesn't include any plan to provide the power generation to feed these vehicles means you can expect the cost of electricity to continue to sky rocket.

[@martinesproduction]

Nice video for those who are still hesitating between ICE and EV, thanks. However, I wonder how dirty cheap is your home electricity (8 cent per kWh). In Europe, that would be almost free electricity, as prices here are around 30 cent per kWh. Also, your Tesla and Electrify fast chargers are dirty cheap (fast chargers in Europe by roads are between 0.6 and 1.2 USD). In addition, free chargers almost completely disappeared in Europe (even in shopping malls) and everything is paid even slow chargers e.g. 7 kW. Anyway, it is quite clear, at least in Europe, that if someone wishes to compare just mileage cost based on energy/fuel consumed during driving on a long trip (using fast chargers on highways or around) the cost for EVs will be very comparable to ICEs. This is how big energy/oil companies are switching to 'green energy' and asking the same price tag as previously for fuel. However, most of us are not on vacation all year around, and mainly using cars for commuting or short distances, for which charging at home has still the cost advantage over ICEs. I own EV for 1 year and would never go back to ICE (despite never having technical big issues with ICEs before).

[@mowcowbell]

$0.08 a kilowatt hour is really cheap for the US. The average is closer to $0.16 per kilowatt hour. I pay $0.14 a kilowatt hour in Oklahoma. On the other hand, gasoline is only $2.45 per gallon which makes an EV more difficult to justify.

[@OpinionatedOG184]

@@mowcowbellI only charge during off peak ours at home for 6 cents per kWh here in North Carolina. And there are two electric vehicles at my home, we only need to charge maybe one of them once per week depending on which one we drive. We usually go out together in one car. On rate occasions will both cars need to leave home.

[@scottmckenna]

Yes. Depending on your costs in your area; results can vary for sure. My energy is cheap.

[@foxlake6750]

Hybrids are the way to go. Remember, depreciation is your highest cost of car ownership and from what I’ve seen, EVs depreciate at a higher rate.

[@waitawhileexplorer3904]

Do faster charges reduce the battery life?

[@lanmansvideos]

So the moral of the story is, financially speaking, to only get an EV if you can have home charging. Otherwise, it is less expensive to own an ICE/Hybrid vehicle. If you live in an apartment or town home then an EV then electricity is going to be as, or more expense, than gas plus you will have to charge more often than you would have to go to the gas station in an ICE car and stay at the charger 10 times longer each time. When you add the fact that EV's generally cost more than their ICE counterpart, generally depreciate faster, and some states (where I live) charges an extra $200 a year for EV registration to offset loss in "gas tax" then owning an EV without a home charger doesn't make financial sense. However, buying a vehicle isn't always about financial sense. Plenty of people pay $70,000 for an F-150 Lariat that live in an apartment and have zero need for a truck. Just because they want a truck.

[@scottmckenna]

Not necessarily less expensive to own a gas vehicle (unless you have something like prius). But might more of a hassle waiting at super chargers and not saving a ton. But there's no way for your at home charger, because every day you wake up with a charge.

[@lanmansvideos]

@@scottmckenna You've made my point. EV's are a great option for middle/upper income home owners who can install home charging. For everyone else, not so much.

[@iphonedoc]

@@lanmansvideos Haters won't give up. They are stuck in their beliefs and facts won't deter them. What is the number one selling car in the World including ICE, EV, and anything else? Good guess - Tesla Model Y for the last 2 years.

[@CharveL88]

But feel free to ignore all the dozens of other advantages to operating a quality (Tesla) EV unless energy cost savings matters more than convenience, crash safety, maintenance, multiple-lifetime battery life, etc, etc.

[@lanmansvideos]

@@scottmckenna Just for kicks I ran the numbers on a Camry getting 45 Mpg and a Tesla Model 3 getting 3.5 Mile per Kwh. I used those two because they are basically the same size car and are in the same price range. Assuming gas is 3.00 per gallon (I paid 2.60 this morning) a Camry will cost 6.6 cents per mile. A Tesla exclusively using supercharging at .42 cents per Kwh is 12 cents per mile. However, that same Tesla using home charging at 12 cents per KW would cost 3.4 cents per mile. Driving 15,000 miles in the Tesla exclusively using home charging would be around $510 Driving 15,000 miles in the Tesla exclusively using supercharging would be around $1,800 Driving the Camry 15,000 miles would be around $990 It appears that a Tesla exclusively using supercharging is around the same cost per mile as a gas car that gets 27-28 mpg, maybe 31 or 32 mpg if you do mostly city driving. I would tell someone that it you can't charge at home and must use a fast charger then a car that gets 30 mpg will cost less per mile for fuel/electricity. Of course, variables will change these numbers a lot. Gas prices , supercharging prices and home electricity charges vary by location. How a person drives (fast/slow) and where they are driving will change the numbers (city, hwy, elevation) and weather conditions also have an effect (more so for the Tesla).

[@rogerthat1553]

I'm just curious if you charge at 350KW will it shorten the battery life and what does it cost to have a home quick charge station installed.

[@scottmckenna]

If you use nothing but fast charring, some people will say it’s not as good for your battery, but I barely ever use fast charring so I can’t say

[@corey1022]

EV Tesla driver here. I love it. For now it's super cheap for electric. I only deal with Tesla superchargers and my home charger which i find is the best experience for me. I find some of the other charging stations are so undependable. I've never had any issues with chargers not working at a Tesla stop. I also have a portable Tesla charger in the trunk that plugs into a standard outlet as a plan c. It's for if i end up somewhere far overnight where a charger might be too far to get to. Only used it once when i went out to the Carolina beaches to my in-laws house and the nearest super charger was 50 miles back on the freeway. I plugged in the Tesla portable charger (which is very slow since it's pulling from standard outlet) into the outlet outside overnight and I had plenty of charge to get around and make it to the Supercharger to get a fast charge as I was headed back home which is a couple hours away.

[@scottmckenna]

We had a Tesla for awhile as well. Great vehicles. I love my EVs

[@RunQC]

Very convenient.

[@johnluiten3686]

One need not do the calculation, albeit it’s simple math. Simply this, if you charge at “fast chargers” you will pay more than typical gasoline at the station. There is “no” fuel savings outside home charging-and that’s before you pay any State tax on EV mileage.

[@iphonedoc]

OK John. If you say so.

[@johnluiten3686]

@ Can you say otherwise? You own an EV? What type? And where have you traveled.? What chargers do you use? Of course you can’t, cause you are like the others-ready to comment with no real world experience. I own an EV and ICE and I’ve travelled and used both and compared the numbers. Fast chargers are at least 4 times more expensive per kWh. Do the numbers and compare to ICE vehicles. EV’s are only economical-fuel-wise-with home charging. Otherwise, they are at best equal in fuel cost, especially if you live in a non-temperate area of the country. Economics of travel tank in “both” cold and hot weather. This is not true of ICS vehicles. Quit your snide remarks and respond with experience and numbers.

[@Brettdyt]

After 8-10 years that battery pack on that F150 lightening is going to go bad. It will cost $35,000 to replace and your car goes to the junk yard because the replacement cost exceeds the value of the vehicle. $35,000 will buy you around 14,000 gallons of fuel or enough to operate a gas vehicle for 28 years at 12,000 miles per year average. The depreciation on that F150 is probably more than the cost of gas meaning there is no savings.

[@Carl_in_AZ]

Jim Farley, the CEO, agrees with you. They plan to introduce the EV Ranger using better battery technology. They are learning from their mistakes. In twelve years, battery packs have gone from $1200 to under $100 this year. At the same time, some vehicle manufacturers are offering a lifetime or one million-mile warranty on their complete electric power trains now that they cost less than engine power trains. Even in the semi-truck industry, companies like Freightliner, Volvo, Navistar Cummins, Tesla, and Windrose see cost savings over the vehicle's life with electric power trains. By 2028, these manufacturers in the trucking industry plan to produce 150k/yr of electric power trains.

[@scottmckenna]

We shall see.

[@stephkent2736]

First thing: batteries are required to be under warranty for 8 years/100,000 miles to comply with US law. In CA (where many EVs are sold) they have to maintain 70% to 150,000 miles for 10 years/150,000 miles to comply with CA law. Tesla's warranty standard is 70% at 8 years/150K and Ford is 70% at 8 years/100K - but it needs to feel good enough to meet the CA requirements. May I add - this far surpasses the warranty on an engine for a standard F-150. And it only requires proof that the battery coolant was serviced - which isn't recommended until 200K.

[@ernesstocaratiesto]

Your comment about batteries "going bad" after 8-10 years has been debunked by a plethora of studies. Generally, the expectation is that the max. charge will probably go down (to about 90% of the original capacity) in the first 2-3 years and then remain quite steady (e.g. down to about 80% of the charge) for the 10-year period that you mention. In any case, there are different types of battery chemistries that behave differently, and some people can get unlucky and their battery may fail right after the 8-year guarantee, but so do ICE engines.

[@edsmale]

Nothing you said is truthful

[@i.r.wayright1457]

I just paid $3.09 for regular unleaded today when I filled up our 2017 Honda CR-V. It gets 25 mpg in winter. I also have a non-plug in Ford Maverick Hybrid which gets 43 mpg in summer and 37 in winter conditions. Home electric rates here in central PA is $.16 per KWH. I think you need to figure in how long a battery will last in a full, or Hybrid EV vehicle, versus how long a gas powered vehicle engine & transmission will last, with proper care.

[@yvonboudreau3932]

No such thing as free chargers. Someone else is paying for it through higher taxes and fees.

[@scottmckenna]

We are paying for a lot of things with taxes so I’m fine with it. We are also paying for people student loan forgiveness and I didn’t go to college so it’s all unfair.

[@psdaengr911]

When kids get candy from strangers on Halloween, they don't pay for it whether or not their parents are gifting candy to other kids. It's a gift. This is no different.

[@joetretter6103]

Many times the free chargers are located in malls, I assume the mall is paying for it as a way to entice you to come and shop.

[@petersilva037]

it´s hotels, restaurants, malls... not government... free enterprise deciding to attract clients... it´s a marketing cost for them. Stop making up issues.

[@MrAlan1828]

Back before 2023 There were free charging stations until EVs got more popular. Some people still share their plug for people in need, you just have to find them

[@terrymccormack4793]

What was the cost to install the home charger? Or was that free??

[@scottmckenna]

A lot of companies offer it free as incentive. If you pay for it, it’s between $750-$1500 one time.

[@terrylee5861]

Power grid goes down too bad

[@chrisbraid2907]

Yeah then even the gas station pumps don’t work ….

[@dfarmer_]

@@chrisbraid2907 But the ICE car will. Can't let an EV get cold so it can't be outside up north (or so my EV owner friends say)

[@Realist-m9c]

After a cyclone in 2021 we had no electricity for 4 days. The petrol stations weren’t operating but anyone that had prepared for the cyclone could easily top up a tank with a Gerry can of fuel. Even farmers were fine as they usually have fuel storage for their tractors. An EV would have been impossible to “refuel”.

[@t.alexdawson118]

I extremely interested in getting an EV in several years. But, I’m in Texas where home electricity was deregulated several years ago and home rates can very year to year. One year I may get .08 kw, and the next year, the lowest rate available may be .12 or .13 cents per kw.

[@scottmckenna]

.12 -.15 is still very low.

[@spidersj12]

There's is no 'free lunch in a capitalist society. The cost associated with this 'fee charging' is actually paid for by increasing the prices of the goods and services provided at that commercial, hotel or retail establishment and everyone has to pay these extra costs for the 'froo-froo' EV vehicle crowd.

[@planesandbikes7353]

see my math above. The average cost to individual guests of a hotel is about 15 cents per night, if it was averaged out across every guest. A drop in the bucket. But in reality the presence of free chargers brings in extra business to the hotel, so they do not have to pass ANY of the cost of the charging on to their ICE driving guests.

[@spidersj12]

@planesandbikes7353 this may work in jurisdictions where's power is dirty cheap. Where I live the utility charges $0.63/kWh, and just applied for a 25% increase in electricity rates. Forcing out the majority of ICE vehicles will badly indeed thy costs of fuel for the remaining ICE vehicle owners which will almost exclusively be rural and because of economies of scale make it insufferably, cryshingly expensive, which is the entire point of the tree hugger movement.

[@MrLuigiFercotti]

There’s no free lunch in any society.

[@RobStump-d6r]

Some of you mentioned the taxes on gas well that is baked into the cost at the pump snd as such is transparent to cost. Here in Michigan if you buy an EV or hybrid, you can plan to pay a much higher registration fee. Another hidden tax that you will not know about until you by the car. They know you will not be paying taxes at the pump for the road so they get it from you in your annual registration.

[@ObviousNoob11]

8 cents... where? It is 27 cents where I live and that is considered a great price. Also, I have solar so it is really zero..

[@scottmckenna]

Solar is the way to go. And I live in northeast PA so my rates are cheap. And I love it that way.

[@tomwalma4762]

and the cost of the solar is......?

[@ObviousNoob11]

@@tomwalma4762 I paid 14k October 4 years ago for a slightly oversized array. My break even point is next month. I have no electric bill, and get a check between 20-50ish dollars a month, depending on the time of year. I also live in MA where solar laws are good, your milage may vary.

[@joejennings1432]

How far can you drive? How long does it take to charge?

[@scottmckenna]

Every EV is different. Do your research. The length of time to charge doesn't matter because when you have your own charger at home, it happens while you sleep and you wake up every day to a full charge. The distance you can travel depends on what vehicle you buy.

[@joejennings1432]

@ But if taking a long trip, not really interested in setting in a parking lot for extended amount of time

[@scottmckenna]

@@joejennings1432 Then you charge at a fast charger like a Tesla SuperCharger, Electricfy America, etc. You'd have to stop every 300 miles or so (which is over 6 hours or driving, which I imagine you'd need a break to eat and go to the bathroom regardless. By the time you're done, you're charged back up

[@keithmontoya8793]

Don't EVER forget, EV's are throw away cars since the price to fix them is far and above what you'd want to pay.

[@scottmckenna]

Sweet.

[@mplsgordon2]

They're manifestly not, at least not Teslas. There's a thriving market in used ones. And it's not like the roadside is littered with broken, abandoned ones. Yes, a repair can be large, but how often does that happen?

[@renesaenz5463]

this does not factor in the efficiency of the battery. which i believe changes over time. am I wrong? Also if it takes 20 hours but its free your not factoring in what your missing out on. if it takes 7 minutes fo fill up on gas and you can work all day, but spend 20 hours waiting for free gas, you have to factor in these differences. If you miss out on 4 fares driving for uber waiting for a charge, that must be calculated into the total cost of doing business.

[@michaellatta]

A Fill up” is around $20 for our Tesla in California. Gas is $4-6.5/g. A Tesla fill up is 300 miles. Or more like $60 for gas.

[@scottmckenna]

Cool

[@robertkubrick3738]

The gas car goes farther on a fill up 50% farther or more.

[@michaellatta]

⁠Yes, but I was computing per mile costs.

[@robertkubrick3738]

@@michaellattaYou didn't add in depreciation to the per mile costs. If range doesn't matter, you should have bought a cheaper short range Battery car. You are the one who brought range into the discussion, didn't you? How much is a battery car with 450 miles range?

[@michaellatta]

@@robertkubrick3738range matters to a point. Our Tesla does around 300. We have never needed more. Road trips always have a food/bathroom break before the car needs charging. I recently did several trips with 1000mi in 2 days. The car could have done it in one if the human could.

[@Homested_Happenings]

There was a monthly membership charge. It was $20.00 a month unlimited challenging. Worked well for my 100 plus mile trips with limited range in my Leaf as I was able to charge at two of their stations

[@dathyr1]

I am Retired and only drive around town. Well I only use home charging for my EV. I knew it would be the cheapest for where I live. I only need to charge up 1-2 times a week. It works for me.

[@topherl1446]

The less you drive the likelihood that you're batters will fail sooner is higher

[@foxlake6750]

Why doesn’t anyone in these comparisons look at depreciation? It’s the highest expense of car ownership.

[@jimfields9491]

Just wait till the federal subsidies expire on EV charging. Then it’ll be the equivalent of $17 per gallon of gas.

[@LuvBorderCollies]

Wait for more EV fires and watch the insurance companies cancel EV's which will be a great thing.

[@guringai]

They will never undercut my rooftop solar at 7c/kWh

[@jimfields9491]

@@guringai that’s awesome but I’m referring to the average grid only person.

[@Fstop5.6]

I leased the Ioniq 6, has a 316 mile range, charges from 20%-80% in 15 minutes, come with unlimited 2 years of free charging through Electrify America, plus as I use it for work I get to weight off all work mileage. The gas savings alone more than cover the monthly payments, and other costs. I’m driving a brand new care and saving money.

[@scottmckenna]

Hyundai is doing a fantastic job with their EV’s for sure.

[@EattheApple666]

This is why I have a Level 2 charger at home, always leave with full battery, unless you are going 300 miles no need to charge. I've had a EV since 2018 and have 2 EV now and only used public charger twice. Getting our 3rd EV today no more ICE so will be installing a second L2 charger.

[@MrAlan1828]

I mostly use home L1 basic charging and charge in public when it was free, unless my daily routine changes I won't be needing to charge in public. 150M range for myself home < work > Home shopping is suffient

[@bigdogbob845]

Scott, I have to say you did a very good, in-depth comparison of the cost for Gas versus EV for 100 miles of travel. First, I must say that it seems cheaper to use an EV for short trips, but only if you can charge at home and you don't EVER have to use one pf the roadside charging stations. Second thing I notice is your cost reference for at home charging of $.08 KW ! ! ! What...? I don't know where you got that number but here in SoCal where I live the Lowest, off peak, cost for one KW is $.40, so you can see that the charging cost will vary greatly by region.

[@ernesstocaratiesto]

My numbers are a bit different but I got similar conclusions. My Chevy Equinox EV does ~3.5 mi/Kwh in real life (3.75 EPA estimate) and I pay electricity at ~$0.13/Kwh. So about $3.7/100 mi for me. Assuming the estimate for the Equinox ICE's of 27 mi/gallon is real and a price of ~$3/gallon, 100 mi would cost $11.1. So right on x3 the cost. Plus the added comfort of charging at home, the quietness, the one-pedal driving,... Unless you regularly need more that 300 mi/day, it's (almost) all advantages. Regarding cost of the car, the base Equinox ice is $30,000, while the base Equinox EV is $35,000 (+fees) minus $7500 federal tax rebate --plus Chevy offers another "EV loyalty" $2500 rebate. Also, the Equinox EV is a much nicer car: more power, more torque, smoother ride, and nicer looks.

[@scottmckenna]

Sounds like you’re enjoying your EV. I agree. Great experience.

[@jameszeveney7148]

So, you can basically drive 150-200 miles away from your house and then turn around and come home or get used to paying more per mile than a gas car?

[@MrPhilbautista]

What to do when your EV gets busted and your town doesn't have a service center? How easy is it to get it repaired by your friendly neighborhood mechanic?

[@scottmckenna]

If you drive a Tesla, that’s an issue for sure but fortunately if you’re buying any Evs from other companies, there are plenty more service centers and dealerships. My local mechanic services evs though. Not battery stuff though.

[@paulredmon3895]

You said your airport offers free charging but aren’t you also paying to park at the airport? So maybe it’s not really free if you’re paying $10-$15 er hour/day for parking but still nice to know they may be available

[@scottmckenna]

Umm, yes you have to pay to park at the airport. I don't know any airport that has free parking. But I don't pay more money to charge at the EV charging spot. It's the same parking lot as everyone else, and I pay the same everyone else does. So yes, it's technically free. I'm not paying to go into this lot to charge. I'm parking at the airport.

[@Joseph-pm2mp]

Insurance is twice the cost for EVs. And the average initial purchase cost is much greater also. Oh and don’t forget repairs. We can go 600 miles in these trucks before we stop to refuel and that’s only a 10-15 minute exercise.

[@nguyep4]

My Model Y is $171. The saving in fuel helps pay most of the insurance cost.

[@LASLOEGRI]

No. Wrong.my Model S and Cybertruck insurance are less than the S and liability only insurance on a gas car.

[@randymawhiney160]

How long will it take to make up the $12000.00 difference in the purchase price of the ev?

[@randymawhiney160]

Ev.

[@eberhoozen]

Look at all the EV’s that wouldn’t charge in Chicago when it was 0 degrees F. Battery heaters couldn’t keep up. .13 /kwh here

[@toddtheisen8386]

Live in Wisconsin and it was much colder that day here than in Chi-town. The problem in Chicago was broken/inaccessible charging stations, not the vehicles. My wife's EV does fine in 20 below weather up here. Matter of fact, it heats up MUCH faster than an ICE engine. Same for the A/C cooling in the summer.

[@markentress1286]

@@toddtheisen8386 They will operate - but you spend electricity to heat it to be ready to charge at full speed (or in hot weather to cool it - to stay in the faster charging rate zone). Not such a big deal in modest cold. But at those temps, you have a drastic impact on range, and charging times. So sure, it works. Not well, but it works. If your wife is charging her car and storing it overnight in your garage, and parking in an enclosed / garage, then that's a bit different...is she storing and charging outside? That's where the real problems come in. For simple around town trips with a home base shouldn't be a problem...but it certainly comes with diminished performance, to a much greater degree than ICE or hybrid counterparts.

[@nephetula]

Yes, charging costs when you don't do your charging at home are far more. Especially, if you use a SuperCharger, because fast charging also reduces battery life. So if you do short trips and most all your charging at home, it's a good deal. But if you're doing long trips, and have to pay the high rates of commercial chargers, and fast-charge, you're really not saving any money, especially if you're using the heat or AC most of the time.

[@IYar56]

We get 32 mpg with gas around $2.60 per gallon. We pay less on insurance. Depreciation about $5000 on 10 years. Save more, by renting a uhaul and moving to a place with a lower cost of living.... You might find a place that doesn't burn coal for electricity...

[@CharveL88]

Aw that's adorable! You live in 2013 still!

[@IYar56]

@CharveL88 better than the biden hyperinflation economic plan. You will own nothing, eat bugs and be happy, per his wef buddies.

[@colonelfustercluck486]

speaking of economics... are E/V's more expensive? and What is the resale value like? And how much weight of coal is needed per Kilowatt to supply the clean and green E/V? And how much methane, CO2 and carbon will go into the atmosphere due to this.?

[@DCGreenZone]

Been driving my 2006 ICE for near 20 years. Put a few batteries in it, $100 ea. No accidents. No FSD. No problems. Getting in a wreck and having a 5,000 flame shooting out from under a car is a deal breaker for me. I will never pay for a $20,000 battery. Charging rates in China have tripled, so there's that.

[@kelviskelvis7140]

"Getting in a wreck and having a 5,000 flame shooting out from under a car is a deal breaker for me" That is the exact reason why I switch to an EV, gasoline always catches on fire. An ICE vehicle during its lifetime is twice as likely to catch on fire than an EV. I will never pay for a $20,000 battery either. But you did pay over $20,000 in gas since 2006 if you had an EV you would have saved that money. You should be happy for China that their rates for gasoline have tripled, so that does not mean anything.

[@DCGreenZone]

@kelviskelvis7140 I'll work with facts, not rosy pictures put up by Elon fan boys.

[@DCGreenZone]

@kelviskelvis7140 ICE always catched fire is BS. If and when they do they can be extinguished and your wind up car cannot. We may as well be hiring the Taliban to make our vehicles. Get a SCRATCH on an EV battery and it will lbe totaled. Enjoy your insurance rates.

[@blackiedekat2612]

Thanks for doing the math!..........( i'm sorry i don't have any correction suggestions or snarky put downs for you. i will try to be better prepared next time. )

[@itsmeforsure5475]

So whats the range and how long does it take to charge? In the extreme cold, the batteries will discharge alot quicker and charge alot slower, unless you keep them inside. When toyota gets their engine that runs on water going, thats the way to go.

[@manualdidact]

OOF -- mere seconds into the video, and were already getting basic energy/power units confused.

[@scottmckenna]

I think you understand what I’m saying.

[@Snerdles]

​@@scottmckennaWe understand what you are trying to say... But getting the basics so wrong makes it look like you have no clue what you are saying.

[@donbahn1319]

What about insurance cost? and tire cost?

[@johnreese3762]

Great video with good information, thanks! We live in California where gasoline is around $5 a gallon. Home charge Tesla Level 2, great savings over ice!

[@jcook69camaro]

what about the charge the DMV adds when you renew your registration. some states have a per mile charge for road tax. this needs to added to this

[@GizmoMaltese]

Increased insurance costs means you don't save anything.

[@diydrivenGA]

depends on the car...teslas will raise your rate, others not so much. My EV replaced my 8 yr VW GTI at a $10/month increase which was likely due to my address change.

[@bjugler]

3:10 ChargePoint app will show other charge networks now too. (Which I found to be rather annoying actually before I figured out it was doing that and how to change the filter settings.)

[@juliogonzo2718]

I love it when someone tells me that if I buy a $400k house, $100k ev, and $30k worth of solar, i can drive for free.

[@scottmckenna]

I didn’t tell you to buy a house or solar. Though I do think Solar is super smart.

[@sd70cal]

I love it when someone wants to live life as a victim and looks for all the reasons outside themselves on why they can't do something. You can buy an EV for $0 over what you needed to spend for a comparable car. Rent a room at a house that has solar and negotiate that in with the rent. Find a company to work for that offers free low level charge. Buy something like an Aptera that has panels on its roof and will charge when it's parked while you work.

[@juliogonzo2718]

@sd70cal or I just keep my cheap apartment and my $5000 gas burning pos that is paid for and cannot depreciate anymore. Have fun with your car payment.

[@juliogonzo2718]

@sd70cal I could literally buy enough gas to drive 200,000km with the amount a new ev would depreciate in 5 years.

[@juliogonzo2718]

@scottmckenna if I had a house and the financial ability to put solar on it I definitely would it's a no brainer. It's just I have often seen comments online that you could drive an ev for free with solar which is ridiculous

[@aultraman]

Thanks for uploading your video; it helps a great deal being able to visualize the differences. A couple of things to add: 1. Different EVs like ICE cars, have different efficiency. Tesla model Y for examples, gets around 4 miles/kwh. 2. Tesla super chargers aren't always .52 cents /kwh. It's cheaper after 11PM (I think it's 25 cents/kwh). I think mid morning it's 45 cents/kwh or similar.

[@scottmckenna]

Yes lots of factors for sure.

[@craiggrant5509]

I think it is misleading to show gas cars as getting 20 - 30 -40 mpg. Where I live most of my friends and family drive trucks or big SUV's. We are talking more like 12 - 15 - 20 mpg!!! 🙂

[@randygreen7871]

We have a 2019 Camry Hybrid that averages 50.3 MPG

[@TexasScout]

My 2014 GMC Sierra 5.3 V8 gets 22 mpg on the highway at 70 mph

[@TexasScout]

I live in rural South Texas. The closest major city is 40+ miles in any direction. I can pull into a gas station with 40 “miles left to empty” showing, spend less than 5 minutes there and drive out with 420 “miles left to empty”. Unless and until EVs can do this, they will not be practical for folks like me. And then there’s the cost.

[@BrianNC81]

Our big suburban with a diesel engine gets 27mpg highway driving and weighs 6300lb. If you went the speed limit its closer to 30mpg. Even around town its about 22mpg.

[@dfarmer_]

Van gets 24-28, Suv gets 22-27, Motorcycle gets 35-44, Truck get 12-14, but it's pulling 20k load. These are the calcs from the gas pump and od, NOT based on what the vehicle says which is always 1+mpg higher. (Jet Ski is 4gal/hr, nearly 15mi/gal)

[@PlayingInVestapol]

Is it possible to have a portable charger for let's say Vacation stay at a Hotel. That would be plugged into an outdoor power socket. I'm seriously thinking of going EV.

[@scottmckenna]

Yes. Watch the other video on my channel about charging your EV with a standard outlet.

[@PlayingInVestapol]

I've wondered this too. I see those charging stations at Trail Heads and lot of EV's be using them.

[@johnarmenta2199]

The conversion is 33.7kWh = 1 gal of gasoline, So, 40mpg = 40/33.7 miles per kWh = 1.19 m/kWh So 4m/kWh = 4x33.7 = 134mpg. 3m/kWh = 101mpg. People scoff at EV's by saying something like "emissions are just transferred to the power plant, so it is not really green energy". Right. But the energy efficiency alone allows reduces emissions by 1/3 to 1/4 of an ICE vehicle.

[@SlardybardfastUSA]

Those "efficient" electrons arrive at the plug of all EVs from a fossil fuel power station in 70% of the US. Where is the efficiency savings?

[@john_nip_nop]

First, power consumption is measured in kilowatt-hours, not kilowatts. Check the electric statement. Second, a residential rate of 8-cents per kilowatt-hour is low - very low. My power ranges from 13-cents to 20-cents per kwh, depending on monthly usage. A search will tell us "As of December 2024, the national average residential electricity rate in the United States is 16.83 cents per kilowatt-hour (kWh)." I don't think it is possible for even commercial users to score an 8-cent rate (national commercial avg = 13.7-cents.)

[@dweiss1]

A couple thoughts after watching: 1. Definitely get a membership for the EV power equipment - technically called an EVSE - you are going to use, and use their app, if you frequent Level 3 EVSEs often. That will get you the best price. 2. Doesn't matter if you go to a 250kW or a 350kW EV EVSE if they both output more than what the vehicle's on-board charger can handle. You will still reach the same level of charge rate.

[@JohnC29]

How much does a level2 home charger cost?

[@scottmckenna]

Can vary between about $500-$1,500. But a bunch of companies like Fore currently are including level 2 chargers for your home. Incentives to get you to buy.

[@robinschaeffer6252]

Electricity costs me about 10 cents /KW + about another 10 cents for "delivery charges"/ KW. That puts the cost about the same as a fuel efficient gas powered car without the added initial cost, maintenance costs, additional insurance costs, range limitations, time wasted charging, and greater depreciation of an EV. A PHEV might be a good option to hedge against future gas prices and fuel availability and have fewer limitations associated with electric automobiles.

[@mikeallen1490]

prius prime = 1st 25 - 30 mi. pure ele. - then 55+mpg - fuel here currently $2.60/gal - + in Oh. you pay an extra $400/yr.in license fees for an electric- + prime 600 mi. range - + lower initial cost - + charger comes free with veh. - + all the time you save - plug in hybrids kinda rock -

[@howebrad4601]

Looks to me that if you cant charge at home the gas car is very competitive, especially when you consider the original purchase price of the ev is usually more. Plus gas cars can last 20 years. Not likely an ev battery will last 20 years