Scythe | Shelfside Review

[@revbrentcolby]

I saw the title and thought, “Scythe? Didn’t that come out years ago?” Then I saw the epic intro and realized that it was worth the wait. I can’t wait for your Azul review in 2024.

[@shortydancer]

I prefer to watch review of these “older” games than the new hotness. I think games reviews benefit from a fall of the hype and good amount of playing the game.

[@inttruders]

I think Scythe should have been marketed as a Cold War themed Euro. The threat of fighting is more important in this game than actually fighting. So many people expect it to be an area control fight to the death. I have a whole shelf full of area control fighting games so when I want to scratch that itch I play one of those. This game is for my more Euro inclined friends who come to game night. It is a Euro that has a theme I enjoy more than the the usual Euro themes of farming or spice trading. Scythe is not my favorite game but I enjoy it for what it is instead of hating it for what it isn't.

[@Shelfside]

thanks for sharing this! I had the benefit of Daniel constantly warning me about what the game 'actually was' before I played, so I went in with that euro expectation, and wasn't let down nearly as hard as he was at first. Would definitely be ok with playing this again with more my more euro-inclined friends! -Ashton

[@oz1447]

Home boy is getting STRONGER with the editing.

[@abruwer08]

This is a pretty fair take on Scythe. I particularly appreciated Daniel talking through his experience with learning the game. Having someone talking through the learning curve is tremendously helpful for someone who has to usually teach board games. This is one weird game. Also here's hoping you guys will one day do the Civilization The Board Game review.

[@vitorhauser8476]

They did.

[@dannyp4174]

We thought in line with your thoughts, until we acquired the Rise of Fenris expansion. We played thru the campaign without opening any boxes early(which you could do without completing the campaign). Loved the story and surprises of the campaign. But there are so many modules added with the expansion, it would deserve a different perspective on some of the limitations you have mentioned that make the game so tight. But playing thru the campaign to be surprised by what's in store, was satisfying to say the least, epic for us.

[@Shelfside]

I've been reading these comments and seeing all the hype for the expansions haha. We plan on getting around to them eventually! Though when all the expansions are involved, it almost doesn't even look like Scythe anymore! -Daniel

[@dannyp4174]

@@Shelfside during the campaign we chose not to use the airships. We paid closer attention to the new modules, we also played 2 player so we could get thru the story quicker. If you get Fenris I still suggest playing the campaign for the story.

[@shortydancer]

Whoa an hour long review on scythe?! I’m looking forward to watching this whole thing.

[@Carbonaramafia]

You nailed the review man. I love this game, but it desperately needs an 'essential' version, which may include the modular board, a couple of updates from the expansions and more balanced factions.

[@wahick]

Great review! Please do Spirit Island next!

[@federicodecesco1926]

I think one of the best things about your reviews is that you divide the pros and cons so sharply. The game always looks splendid in the first part but then the cons are grafted on the positive parts creating a very realistic and balanced picture. For scyhte I agree perfectly but perhaps this is the review that most of all deserves a second part with the expansions to see if they have managed to smooth out the balance and stiffness problems. For a true 4x I highly recommend you to try Clash Of Cultures - Monumental Edition which for me is an improved (streamlined and aesthetically more beautiful and ergonomic) version of the Civilization you like so much. Great job!

[@Shelfside]

Expansions are always a weird thing to cover since they're separate modules to throw into a game, especially Scythe's, which, when using all of them transforms the game into something far different than base Scythe lol -Daniel

[@arthursimsa9005]

The answer to the question « did they manage to fix the imbalance » is a resounding no. First expansion adds even more balance v’by adding two very underpowered factions and two very overpowered. Second expansion adds variety but doesn’t change the game fundamentally enough to really make it more balanced or swingier. Third expansion I haven’t played, but highly doubt it fixes anything. If there is something that can really change Scuthe, it’s the modular board. It would actually be the best way to change the faction/player mat meta. But does it « fix » the game? Not sure.

[@AboveAverageAdam]

Great review guys. I also own Scythe and all it's expansion content and lemme tell you, it makes a TON of difference. The first expansion, Invaders From Afar, adds two more factions that are a ton of fun with traps and banners that get placed on the map. The second expansion, The Wind Gambit, adds a large Airship for all Factions which have varying passive and aggressive attributes which are randomly chosen and apply to all player's airships at the beginning of the game, this expansion also adds the Resolution tiles module which consists of 8 tiles with 8 different end game conditions instead of the normal way the games usually end, this is a godsend! The 3rd Expansion, Rise of Fenris, is where things get really nuts. It adds an 8 game campaign, which over the course of which you will be unlocking 11 brand new modules for Scythe (two of which are two brand new factions) these new modules can change the way the game is played in vastly different ways (you can unlock them via or the campaign or do what I did and just open all the modules right away and play with whichever ones you want). There is also the Scythe Encounter pack which has all the promo encounter cards to shuffle into the encounter deck to give it more flavor and the Modular Board expansion that adds a board with tiles and starting areas that can be rearranged so there are no predetermined starting areas. Honestly, You guys should get all 3 expansions and try out the various modules to see how vastly different the game can become. I'd love to see a video a year from now where you guys give it a 2nd look after trying all the modules. Great review again guys :D (Btw, Rodney on Watch-It-Played has a video for each of the expansions where he shows what is in them, you should give it a watch)

[@Shelfside]

I don't doubt we'll get around to playing them eventually, given that one of our friends is a huge Scythe fan with all the deluxe components and most expansions lol -Daniel

[@arthursimsa9005]

None of that fixes any of the flaws of the game - what Shelfreview and I have trouble with, st least - which is the deterministic, rigid way to build your engine and the imbalance between player mat and faction combinations. If anything the first expand makes the game even more imbalanced, by adding overpowered player mats and underpowered factions. Adding even more variability should never have been the focus of the expansions.

[@robertnoall8847]

Loved this review, especially the story about losing the fun if you are not on the same level. I had this with other games so good to know in advance!

[@sebastienvivas9319]

INCREDIBLE INTRO, 11 OUT OF 10 WILL WATCH AGAIN!

[@jimphilidor9031]

I think the solo mode is excellent once you learn it. The automa is really aggressive, so you can't play it like solitaire for the whole game. The modular board and the extra modules do make it more interesting in the long run. But after trying ECLIPSE, I think that's a better game. It's a true 4X and I also think it's better as a resource management euro game. It feels streamlined and the engine building feels smoother. You get to modify your own space ships and then take to battle, which is so cool.

[@arthursimsa9005]

That’s a comparison I’ve often heard, yes!

[@AAhmou]

For the automa to work the designers had to break many fundamental rules to the point it takes me out of the game, it is a good efficiency puzzle tho.

[@patrickpmcbride]

You keep upping your game with these reviews lately. No sacred cows here, just good, fair, and nuanced content

[@Shelfside]

Thanks! Getting more stuff out for ya guys all the time :) -Ashton

[@cozmicshroomzpro1]

To echo many sentiments I've seen, this is a super well produced videos folks, great job. I agree with you folks here, Scythe isn't for everyone and it definitely tries to pretend its trying to hang with the other big 4x games(to echo another sentiment, i think you folks should try Eclipse 2nd edition) while havin balance issues and being more euro-y than I think it could have been. That said, I really like the game, i haven't played it enough to become seasoned with it but know the rules very well so it makes introducing to folks easier as I'm not as sure of my strategies and i dont dumpster people but i find it easy enough once you get going to suck some folks in who like building a civ and having that near cold war tension of war adds to the politics for my tables(tho not as much as I'd love tbh). Really wish the expansions fixed this but they don't for me but I still enjoy the game anyway. Great video again folks.

[@TheNewLooter]

I love this game, but your criticism is spot on. A very simple, non-invasive house rule that makes the game quite a bit better in my opinion is to increase max combat stars to 3 or 4, and stars required to end a game to 7 or 8 respectively. Saxony player gets extra 1-2 objective cards to compensate. Cheers!

[@Shelfside]

Cheers! Thanks for sharing -Ashton

[@CitizenRare]

Another excellent video. You guys are probably the best board game reviewers out there due to the sheer depth of your reviews. I’ve owned Scythe for about a year, and it’s one of my all time favorites, but part of that is probably due to the fact that I’ve never played with anyone who has mastered the game and learned every best possible opening strategy or even done so myself. Every playthrough has just been a big casual sandbox experience for me and whatever group, and that’s when this game is absolutely at its best. But I appreciate that you guys look at everything and rigorously test the game at every level, and I’ve heard lots of issues at the competitive high-level end. Really curious as to how you guys would rank the game with Fenris modules and/or the modular board - it looked like you had footage of it in the video, and I’ve never tried it myself, so curious if those additional components and randomizations would help squelch some balance issues. I imagine this problem is obviously not unique to just Scythe, games like Chess have always had this problem where you match up a novice or even an experienced player against a Grandmaster and the Grandmaster will win 100/100 times. Chess demands its players be of equal skill to have anything resembling an interesting experience, so it’s a shame that Scythe balance suffers from some of those same weaknesses. But that’s while I’ve always tried to play most board games like how Daniel described, just make my own strategies and test them out, maybe learn a little each time and try something new, rather than memorizing precisely crafted openings or patterns developed by others, etc. So I’ll leave high level Scythe to the pros and try to keep the game casual for as long as I can lol. Speaking of Daniel, his bit in this video was hysterical - “…and I was thinking this game is gonna be sick as fuck!” 😂😂

[@Shelfside]

Yeah, it's super unfortunate I was never able to have sessions of scythe where everyone was all at a similar skill level, but even then my personal score probably wouldn't get that much higher because of the tiny amounts of randomness and player interaction -Daniel

[@arthursimsa9005]

I would strongly contend the idea that Scythe is best when played as a sandbox. The sandbox is way too small! Scythe is just way too imbalanced and rigid for this situation to be really enjoyable, I completely agree with the reviewers on that. Crimea and Russia, and/or some combinations of mat and faction would win a completely disproportionate amount of time, and the game would be too long. I’ve had fun with other « noobs » when I first played the game. But now that I’ve played more board games, I know that if I want a 4x, a sandbox or a game with player expression or improvisation, There are games considerably more fun and/or more fair. If you enjoy the Euro aspect of Scythe, perhaps you will enjoy Terra Mystica or Uwe Rosenberg’s games more. If you enjoy its superficial 4x inspired aspect, I’m sure there are better options as well. And if I want to play Scythe, it is against competitive opponents who know how to do this weird, restrictive, precise thing that is Scythe. And finish in 18 turns at latest;)

[@arthursimsa9005]

@@Shelfside Daniel, haven’t you played online? I thought you had because you mentioned inspiration from Fomof and Joydivision. I am asking because you say that it is unfortunate your player group level was always unequal. Perhaps playing online would reconcile you with the game, as rigid as it is? You’re certainly right that it’s not about player expression at all!

[@Shelfside]

@@arthursimsa9005 I haven't, I watched FOMOF and Joydivision in my quest to git gud and understand Scythe better lol, and I don't really have any interest going digital atm -Daniel

[@LauReXyLL]

Glad to see this channel go out of their comfort zone by playing something more complex than what they're used to.

[@Choose2Connect]

If this wasn't such an amazingly popular and well-played game, both in person and online, it wouldn't be so picked apart. We're so familiar with it - the factions, when to play what - we have the knowledge to critique what we wouldn't in other games.

[@jameskerr3258]

It's this kind of detailed review that I love. This is what I need to figure out whether or not I would want to buy.

[@daem0nfaust]

I was very cautious with Scythe. I got the digital as an inexpensive "try" (also was on sale), and I was partly disappointed, partly impressed. Now I'm getting over that misunderstanding of what this game is. I am now good with getting a physical copy. But like in your review, it's important for me to introduce the game correctly. I like it. I'm still interested with a Scythe-theme card game, more of that art! Great video! Great editing. They just keep getting better. Thank you for making this.

[@Shelfside]

Thanks! You got a good plan for Scythe haha -Daniel

[@shortydancer]

Another great video guys. One of the best boardgame KZbin channels. Always quality content

[@retroarcadefan]

Love your reviews! I lean far more towards your personal scores than your recommender score.

[@demonicbunny3po]

This was a lovely review. Perfectly encapsulates the pros and cons of the game. Personally, I would give Scythe a personal score of 7/10. With that said, I think I will now begin to suggest my favorite board game for you to review. An evil little game called Tragedy Looper. Day 1 of requesting Tragedy Looper.

[@Agumon5]

I am very glad I watched your vid. I saw this game at the store and almost impulse bought it, but glad I waited to watch your review. It looks amazing, but is definitely not my type of game, nor what I was hoping it would be.

[@Shelfside]

Glad this helped! Scythe is so devious with its presentation hahaha -Daniel

[@mikebannwart2913]

i forgot about the neighbors rules for the recruit... hooray for learning something today

[@SimplicitySingularity]

I am really liking your reviews. Very well thought out. I don't play scythe, even though I'm huge into gaming. I opted for games like Blood Rage, Imperial, Kemet, Arnak, Star Trek Fleet Captains, battlelore etc. Scythe is one of those games that I've decided tries to cross over, and I'm not sure I'd dig it. Maybe one day.

[@SimplicitySingularity]

Compare that art to fire & axe, and it's comparable, compare the boards, and now we understand how important a board can be, and how much it can influence desire to play a game. I look at that board and I just want to do things on it, dirty things. I look at the Scythe artwork, and I am sucked up into that hypnotic place of, don't care what I'm doing, give me more art. So many games in my life have done this, that now, I'm not quite as affected. I need both, gameplay, and, some decent art.

[@SimplicitySingularity]

BTW, totally side tracking now. I am not sure I want to continue plalying Rattus, because I'm not sure that there is a good strategy against someone who knows how to play as well as I can.

[@chrismichael9556]

Another deep dive and great review thank you 🙂

[@simonmtkwong]

I think the fun of the game is to "learn" it, reading up on strategy is like reading the spoilers of a book. If the noobs are losing they really need to get together and destroy the king, it can totally be done.

[@meathir4921]

Hanging up on a player basically doesn’t work in Scythe; the game doesn’t really have much to slow someone whose ball is rolling until later on.

[@Shelfside]

On top of that, a good player will usually already have 4 non combat stars in half the time as the newcomers, meaning they can end the game by winning 2 fights before newcomers can even amass power and cards to meaningfully interact. -Daniel

[@kombainasable]

finally a honest scythe review for a change. I really wanted to love it and bought expansions just for the hope they would fix the game (and their machancis would), but in the end balance is all over the place. this is the kind of PvP game where others just cannot do anything against runaway leader, since they score from euro mechanics, and it takes resources and sacrificing your own euro engine to just try to make a dent in the leader. to me Dwelling of Eldervale is the euro-area control which actually got in reverse, and actually right, what makes both genres appealing when mashed together. game is otherwise really good, but massively overhyped for how actually niche it is. not to mention being a 4X is an outright lie

[@arthursimsa9005]

Would you say that Rise of Ferris contributes to balancing the game ?. I am asking this because it’s a common answer from Scythe’s fervent « fans »: « buy the expansions »! I know for a fact that Invaders from Afar actually brings even more imbalanced, and that theWind Gambit doesn’t really change anything.

[@kombainasable]

​@@arthursimsa9005 does it contribute? yes. it allows to pick what stars are awarded for, so if you want more PvP, you can give more for PvP, less if you want less. what I dislike is that combat, even winning one is a cost to your economic engine. if you fight, you will fall behind in effectiveness. the only reason to fight is because economics do not score many points, and winning a fight or two will. so with fenris you can shift that balance to where you like more. does not make interactions with others any less prohibitive to your engine.

[@arthursimsa9005]

@@kombainasable interesting. Thanks for the feedback. I don’t see how that could really be much different from the base game . At best it makes every faction play like the Germans (Saxony). Not really a game changer or a fix to imbalance between faction/player mats.

[@kombainasable]

@@arthursimsa9005 yeah. it kind of fixes motivations a bit, but that's all. normally there is no benefit to fighting besides stars, so you leave them for the last stars to aim for

[@LittlyLary]

I love Scythe, excited to try the new expeditions game, I bought it on table top simulator when it was available and now have a physical copy with painted mechs and heros! Eventually I'll pick up the "DLC" sets.

[@lotusmoon2744]

The amount of time and effort you put into this review is amazing. Thank you for creating this, if only this review was made earlier to inform/warn more new unsuspecting players before investing into this game as it can get expensive. I really appreciate how fair you was with both the pros and cons as well as a in depth explanation of the balancing issues. I wish it didn't advertise itself as a "4X" when it's more of a euro. This being said, I own Scythe and pretty much everything for it including the metal mechs. I do still really like this game and it's too bad you really have to invest to get all the expansions to make it more fair for new players. The Rise of Fenris was also a god send to make this game very enjoyable and break up that "best way to play" scripted actions to a fast victory. Overall, the truth of the gross imbalances of the game hurts when I've invested so much into the game, and I don't want to be "that guy" who brings out Scythe to some friends who are new to board gaming just to crush them resulting in a bad time. Thanks again, keep making these amazing reviews.

[@Shelfside]

Yeah, it sucks how once you're experienced you're basically locked into only being able to get good games with players of a similar skill level, and while most sessions are great then, there's still the chance everyone is dealt crazily imbalanced combinations that can predetermine the outcome. Seems the best way to address that is heavy house rules like a bidding system or getting all of the expansions, at which point Scythe is barely even base Scythe anymore. -Daniel

[@kristofh604]

The modular board is really important for me (and some balancing house rules: buff nordic / nerf crimea/rusviet / saxony [a bit]). Additionally the expansion with more impactful encouters helps to speed up the game and reduce earlier solitaire (especially in combination with the modular board since it is smaller and gives easier access to the other player areas).

[@haseo1]

Amazing intro !

[@DeyaViews]

IMO, Scythe is great... as a digital app. I enjoyed playing it that way, against AI players. On a table with a physical copy, it would be too oddly paced, too locked into specific paths for each faction, and the victory point calculation is a chore. This video, and the others I've watched of y'alls over the past year+ have convinced me that our tastes are pretty similar! That's always great to find in a reviewer. (:

[@Shelfside]

cheers man! Had a good amount of enjoyment with the digital app too. Was so psyched how fast games went. -Ashton

[@arthursimsa9005]

Really? I find even hard Ai way too easy.

[@yannlaliberte8407]

I like this game, everyone has a different point of view, a review is only a single person point of view, taste etc. Scythe is a awesome game (for me)

[@bencapili1955]

What a glorious intro. :)

[@junker154]

I think this really nailed the essence of Scythe and why it is perhaps less played than expected. There are some "Scythisms" and odd mechanics that dont work out well. Enlist can also go to hell. Yet there is much to like!

[@p.herron]

Been waiting for this one!!

[@sAKecOkE]

Scythe is my favorite game, so it's very sad to me that so many people get initially disappointed due to wrong expectations and then never give it another chance or always look at it with that initial "This game betrayed me" feeling. Once you get deep enough into it that the balance starts becoming a concern, you can add expansion content or play with a bidding step added to the beginning of the game to balance out the faction/mat combinations. There's a fairly small but very enjoyable competitive scene, and its digital edition is neat to learn the rules and have a quick match whenever you feel like it. 10/10 for me :)

[@EfrainRiveraJunior]

Scythe always intruiged me. After watching this video, I believe that I must play it before purchasing it. Thanks for a great review.

[@Shelfside]

you can get the digital version on Steam if you're really interested! Will definitely get you through the feeling of the 4 actions -Ashton

[@arthursimsa9005]

It’s always best to try before buying:)

[@EfrainRiveraJunior]

@@arthursimsa9005 - Not always. One example is Kickstarters. You take a leap of faith. Nowadays, we have TTS and BGA. But, not all games are available for free in a digital form. Plus, what if someone doesn't have access to a computer or internet?

[@arthursimsa9005]

@@EfrainRiveraJunior make friends with the kind of people who buy 5 games a month? Or go to a gaming café and try the game for cheap. No need of TTS or apps.

[@EfrainRiveraJunior]

@@Shelfside - Cool. How can we do this?

[@picivyvortac2641]

All these criticisms are totally fair. I am particularly disappointed with how the game doesn't feel like what it looks like. That being said, it's my 3rd favorite game on earth. It's also one of my only beloved eurogames. I'm an ameritrash player but this eurogame is my 3rd fave.

[@lu7ky]

Love the Titanfall reference in the intro, shame you guys did not like it but to each their own though I do agree with some of your cons as well.

[@rmsgrey]

One nitpick with the review - having units return to base rather than being destroyed is not the soft option - yes, you get to keep your mech powers, but you also keep the inflated produce cost, and you have to spend move actions in order to get those pieces back into play at all, and probably multiple move actions in order to get them anywhere relevant again, when redeploying mechs, and reproducing workers would get them into useful locations immediately. Sure, it's not possible to be completely exterminated, but in actual play, destroying workers and mechs that then need to be regained the same way they were originally wouldn't differ that much from having them sent home to where they're useless. In both cases you're sending units back to a pool from which they can be brought back into play.

[@Shelfside]

Personally I don't really find getting sent back to base to be a problem except with Crimea, as every faction has the speed upgrade plus some means of immediately teleporting back in (or in the case of Nordic not even get sent back) -Daniel

[@rmsgrey]

@@Shelfside It's worst when it's non-mechs getting sent back - then every single worker takes a separate move to get back on the board (where a mech can pick them up and spread them out again).

[@Shelfside]

@@rmsgrey I can see why that would hurt a lot, but we've found that workers are rarely by themselves since mechs are carrying them around in the first place, and if there are mechless workers, it's usually only 1 worker per hex in the late game when everyone is scrambling for territory, and the game's usually over in a round or two by then -Daniel

[@rmsgrey]

@@Shelfside In any case, even if the bad cases are rare, the best case of having units sent back to base is still hard to distinguish from having them destroyed - it still takes at least one action to get them back onto the map - probably two actions to actually use them - but unless deploy is the bottom action of the move action, you could deploy and move a mech in only two turns, while it would take three to move it back into play and then move it to do something (two moves and something else in between). The only advantage to not having to deploy to get a mech back in action is if you'd struggle to get the metal.

[@alexmcnamara4792]

Intro is amazing.

[@jadeorlikowski4342]

I like Scythe a lot...I would love to see you review Nemesis!

[@PaulMB40]

Another superb review. Thank you for what must have been an epic production. Scythe casts this spell of me that I believe is common for all who see it (while being almost deceptively intended by its creators): yep, its presentation and theme run contradictory to the actual game. You expounded upon that nicely. Yet, even knowing that, I still become enamoured with it... until I read reviews and are quickly reminded that it's not actually a game I want to play. Maybe it should be renamed Lieythe. Yes, that was a terrible joke, but I'm a dad, so that's part of my job description.

[@Shelfside]

ahaha, I see what you did there. It is really much so that the initial marketing is misleading, where it sounds more epic than its resource efficiency gameplay really is. Cheers! -Ashton

[@bushibayushi]

100% agreed. Plus, Brazil has killed Scythe for me.

[@edmundcheow760]

really like the intro.

[@MafiulRobin]

Everything you said negative is 100% true but I'll still rate it 10 out of 10. Because despite all it's flaws; it's still my most played game (500 time). I've some Scythe winning strategy guide in my chanel as well.

[@TheFancyFilmmaker]

Would love it if y’all reviews terraforming mars

[@XxfieryfirexX]

Dude the quality of your work is over the moon. Lets see this channel explode to the moon guys. Subscribe!!!!

[@Shelfside]

cheers man, I remember you suggesting Scythe too! Glad we could get it out for ya -Ashton

[@tobiasnenseter8044]

My friend got this game as a birthday gift from our group so we have to play it no matter if i like it or not. I also hoped for more combat which made me hard loose my first game as Saxony. This game feels like a game without any interaction, we just play our own single player game and suddendly win. The good games in this world is: something-haven, Unmatched, Root and i loved Game of Thrones the board game in high school (even thogh the win con is dogs- and bullshite).

[@joseg.6187]

Love your reviews. Give Rurik a look.

[@Helloshy]

Thank you i didnt check in for a while

[@Shelfside]

hope this vid helped! Cheers! -Ashton

[@FFWindchaser]

Speaking of Euro-style 4Xes, have you guys played Eclipse yet? I know it’s more than twice as expensive as Scythe, but it was excellent both times I played. It might scratch that itch for all four of the Xes lol

[@Madgaar]

Hands down my favorite. Longer than scythe, yes. But so so so good.

[@jimphilidor9031]

I like Eclipse more than Scythe. Sadly I don't get to play it that often.

[@arthursimsa9005]

Haven’t played it, but yeah, Eclipse is often recommended to people disappointed by the… lacking « 4x » element in Scythe.

[@harrylee1896]

Awesome video - made me realise this game isn't for me to buy.. yet.

[@Sandaru8924]

Ayyyy! Nuke Ghandi makes an appearance!

[@identitythief3012]

Correction (18:08) : They don’t lose population in combat meaning there has to be mech or mini in that territory for them not to lose population Scaring workers isn’t considered combat

[@Shelfside]

Good catch! Didn't realize those weren't combats lol -Daniel

[@user-sl4sx6dp4c]

Amazing review

[@kaba9926]

Awesome review.

[@dialupsyndrome1910]

You guys really should try Eclipse : second dawn for the galaxy. It's like scythe but with all the benefits you wish it had.

[@st0ox]

Yes and without the bloat.

[@BreezingThrou]

TI4 beware... Eclipse has turned 13 of our TI players into Eclipse players. It was hard for us to play TI before Eclipse, had 3-4 games a year, but now most the TI players rather play Eclipse which we play at least once a month since we got it. When it arrived (so a long wait, and a horrid KS) we had 6 games in a week. Something that never happened with TI, and since that day 4 of our TI players just refuse to play TI now, were 9 still will play TI but every time TI is meantioned Eclipse is recommended instead and we have to force TI on table as a vote will lead to just playing Eclipse.

[@BreezingThrou]

Also... not like Scythe really, more like TI meets Xia, with a small pinch of Scythel

[@st0ox]

@@BreezingThrou I really like Eclipse, but I don't like the map setup for less than 4 people, because it just takes too long to get in contact with the other players. So we play custom maps now also without the center piece, because it is boring. It just takes away momentum. Definitely the weakest part of Eclipse. But the rest of the game is really good, would still like to see a big expansion, though.

[@dialupsyndrome1910]

@@BreezingThrou yeah I just meant in the sense it's a true 4x, with the ships taking front and centre. One of the complaints was that the mechs are basically just buses in scythe. I really want to try TI, it seems like a bit more of a roleplay game, but is much more of a commitment than eclipse. I love eclipse, definitely in my top games list, but it would be nice to try TI too.

[@Danny_DaKid]

You definitely should’ve put the “not being 4x” under nitpicks

[@arthursimsa9005]

It’s not a nitpick. It’s a major marketing miscommunication, and perhaps a design mistake explaining why the game is so rigid and imbalanced.

[@Danny_DaKid]

@@arthursimsa9005 idk about major, relax lol. We could “technically” back and forth all day how this is and isn’t considered 4x. I was satisfied with the “4xness” that it brought to the table in under 2 hrs, especially considering the theme/setting is pretty much like a Cold War era, where fighting isn’t the most advantageous. But no, please keep making the same 4x game over and over again with no innovation. God forbid someone tries something different in the 4x genre.

[@arthursimsa9005]

@@Danny_DaKid shelside made a very sound argument in this very video, so I won’t waste my time debating with you.

[@oleksandrivanchenko3299]

perfect! thanks for this nice review! Jokes are good as always!

[@Madgaar]

The negatives you mentioned is what we found during our first and last playthrough on TTS. Definitely not for my group. Get eclipse instead 😉

[@-Ambos-]

I think Eclipse Second Dawn could be what you wished Scythe could bei! -btw there aren't many reviews about Eclipse second dawn yet

[@Shelfside]

ahahaha we gotta get there one day then! It's a big one so it'll be tough to review, but mad hype -Ashton

[@-Ambos-]

@@Shelfside I just ordered it second hand I am scared about the usual hype, too. But I will see in a few days. Have a nice weekend! Greetings from Germany

[@A._J_.]

If you want the 4th X, you gotta launch Dom's Charger at the Mech.

[@jeffzlatkin469]

Like you said, it feels like 4 People playing sudoku, solitaire, crossword. That seems to bear itself well to solo multi-player. Who can I do better with with who has what. Well, then there is the Combat Card mechanic. At the very least you won't forget about Enlist..:-)

[@eriksjogren800]

Thank you for the video

[@williamjames842]

I haven't seen a board game KZbinr whose opinions i align more with than Daniel's. Seems like most of the other KZbinrs were bullied growing up, never learned to deal with it, and can't take any direct confrontation and can only handle dealing out heaps of passive aggressiveness. (Feel sorry for their girlfriends!). Bwahahah, snide joking aside, may i request that you guys do eclipse 2nd ed? Your TI review was pretty epic and convinced me to buy the game and i am hoping you guys can shed some light on... eclipse... Pun-y... I know...

[@Shelfside]

oh man, one day with Eclipse! one day! -Ashton

[@hamzad5061]

Wow, cool video! I'm curious about a review of clash of cultures monumental edition. Not much content about it and think you will like it as well.

[@dackjaniel]

Thanks for the review! Would love to hear your thoughts on an interactive Euro like Hansa Teutonica.

[@ajeba98]

BUT you cannot play Civ solo! Something Scythe CAN do. Great vid!

[@Shelfside]

ahah true, also civ is a terrible 2 player game, scythe definitely works with 2! -Ashton

[@Cpt_nice]

A lot of the criticism for this game comes down to "it's not a 4X". But I think that is a bit hollow, since the game has been mischaracterized as a 4X by some of the community, and iirc never by Jamey himself. Sure the cover has mechs, but that doesn't necessarily translate to "this is a hardcore war game". It literally has farmers in the foreground. A lot of the other criticism I definitely agree with, but you got to look at this game as a euro with a minor combat element, not a 4X game.

[@Shelfside]

heyo! We're just basing the "4x label" based off of what's in the FAQ on Jamey's website, and especially the back of the box. We don't want someone to buy it at a store, thinking its a 4x, and then get bummed -Ashton

[@arthursimsa9005]

The 4x lie is on the box and in a faq by Jamey Stegmaier, who specifically chose to persist in this misnomer… And this is said in the shelfside video. It seems you’re criticising the review without having even watched it closely.

[@spitfire4209]

Is it just me are are some of the meeples identical to those in Viticulture?

[@matthewpeterson3926]

I think it would be cool to hear your opinions on the Garphill games. They are very Euro ranging on interactivity from Architects (you can place other workers in prison) to Paladins and Hadrian’s wall ( which are almost as multiplayer solitaire you can get but very crunchy and combo tastic) and all of the games in between. They are coming out with Circadians Chaos Order which is a high conflict faction based area control game. I think you would at the very least be interested in digging into their games.

[@namelessfire]

Daniel is on the cusp of getting it, man. Scythe is a cold war game. Threatening combat and shoring up your defenses to discourage your neighbors is the name of the game. Knowing when and where to pick your battles and when to pull the trigger is paramount. It can be a tense game, especially when you play with 5+ players and you are rubbing elbows with your opponents as soon as you hop the river or pass through your mine. The good news is, the gripes you guys have are actually addressed in the expansions. Will it change your mind and cause Scythe to jump to a 10/10? Probably not. You're probably already set in your opinions from past plays. Plus you guys are more toward the Amerithrash end of the board game spectrum anyway. But as a guide here's the breakdown: Invaders from Afar: Adds two factions that are not locked by rivers in the early game. Good to have, but not essential. Wind Gambit: Adds airships which makes more opening strategies viable. It also adds some variability with special rules you can add to the game. Players might be disappointed that the airships aren't death machines. But experienced players with love the strategic shakeup. Unrated by my estimation. Encounters: It's just more encounter cards. It doubles the size of the encounter deck. The cards were fan-designed and publisher tested. They are way splashier and more impactful. None of the cards follow the "free thing, pay a little for bigger thing, pay a lot for biggest thing" template the base game cards do. Less incremental and more swingy. Still fun and I recommend it. Rise of Fenris: I will not spoil what is in the box. I will say this: it addresses your complaints about combat stars, variable setup, skill gap between players via a handicap system, it even deepens your appreciation for the thematic underpinnings of the mechanisms. By the end of the campaign, this expansion gives you guys the keys and says, "Scythe is yours to tweak to your liking". It is the best expansion I have ever played. It converted by wife from a hater to a believer. Scythe was her least liked game in our collection. It is now her number 2 game of all time. Modular Board: This is lowkey the second best "expansion". It adds more variability to setup, you can completely do away with starting rivers if you wish, and you can make the map smaller to tighten the game for any player count. Highly recommended.

[@Shelfside]

Thanks for sharing this! Definitely agree that we tend to lean away from Euros. Actually have some scythe content coming in soon where our scores may be improving! -Ashton

[@Shelfside]

I'm very particular with my euro tastes, some of my favorites being Everdell and Suburbia. So many euros end up falling flat for me because of little to no interaction, extremely rigid option possibility, and balance issues exacerbating the previous two problems. The scythe expansions besides invaders from afar (we already have that one and it makes the game even more unbalanced lol) we'll eventually get to cause of a friend who has them, and I'm definitely curious about the campaign lol -Daniel

[@frankle9617]

Next: Inis ?

[@JM16714]

Ashton, You guys need to try the academy games series. 878 Vikings or 1775 Rebellion. Lighter euro wargame hybrids with interesting mechanics.

[@Shelfside]

Noted! Have heard 878 vikings recommended before -Ashton

[@Omalley69]

Cool vid. Modular board really fixes this wonna be war insired euro.

[@DantsSable]

Awesome video as always, what about the civilization review? Can’t believe you haven’t done it yet

[@mike9139]

You are awesome! ❤️

Really good review, want to point out that this is a good game to example that different groups make or brake games, I'm pretty much always the more experience gamer in my group compose of family and friends and i can be really exited to let other more inexperience players "win" meanwhile i couch / play because this kind a game for me are more of a personal puzzle with the tension of potencial fight that and all out brawl, so with that say for our group this game flow pretty good that others that are more full the way competitive,

[@kraziel]

40:32 - "It's not a game built with endless possibilities, with constant adapting, and player expression" Damn, you just described Ankh in reverse. Ankh has LOTS of possibilities, constant adaptation, and it is very expressive through your actions, being incredibly simple to play while deeply complex to strategize.

[@DarthNVious]

I wonder if a Ameritrash board game version of Iron Harvest will be released similar to Company of Heroes. It will be a combat centric version of Scythe; plus I really like the Steam game.

[@revbrentcolby]

Mech Farming Simulator! Lol…

[@IslanKleinknecht]

I hope you guys get a chance to try Clash of Cultures sometime, I'd love to hear how you think it compares to Civilization, even if it's not a full review.

[@Shelfside]

would be a fun quick review comparison thingy! Also granted on how making a really deep review on these heavier games is incredibly straining ahaha -Ashton

[@hugostickney8773]

Chess review when?

[@Shelfside]

oh man, will be fun -Ashton

[@RanwulfMaxwell]

I cracked up at Autobots Uber out at 23:19

[@JM16714]

I have Root, TI4, 1775, and Coin games. so I don't have a spot for this one. If I want low conflict race for vp euros I already have those too. This game looks nice though. I can see plenty of people liking it. Plenty of puzzles to puzzle.

[@g8kpr3000]

While I do t disagree with any of your points, Scythe is still one of my favourite games. I’d rate it an 8/10. I never went into it expecting a 4x or massive mech combat. So maybe that spares me thinking I got cheated out of an expected experience. Much like I did with lost ruins of boredom. I mean Arnak.

[@Shelfside]

Yeah if the back of the box and the website didn't say it was a 4X that probably would've prevented sooo many people from being disappointed lol -Daniel

[@emanuelsantiago6734]

Man.. They should make a Titanfall boardgame Also amazing intro

[@Shelfside]

They should make a Titanfall sequel too while they're at it -Daniel

[@ericegan5707]

You guys should review Cyclades and expansions.

[@andreidinu4438]

So we geeting a Civilazation review any time soon? *pretty please*

[@Shelfside]

i'll see if I can make it work :) -Ashton

[@TheLuminousCleric]

One of my favorite games.

[@samin.mahmud]

Polinia actually loses popularity if a combat is not initiated but the workers retreat

[@Shelfside]

someone else also pointed this out, just found out that this was true! Thanks mate :) -Ashton

[@BreezingThrou]

Well... this day has arrived... knew it would happen, at some point,. I have disagreed on points before, but this is first time were I thought your review was wrong in many ways. Could discuss this but would take a lot of time and effort, to try to change your opinion and you are free to form your own mind so will just respect that and try to move on...

[@LastNameTom]

Fun game but only with 3 or more players. The game is WAY better when painted. And the one thing I think would make the game just a little better is a zero combat card that players start out with and keep. This lets you always grab a combat card to play to throw off the other players.

[@thelyghter7927]

Next review: Prophecy of Kings Definitve Review!!

[@williammcneil2045]

how long is it? i was playing terra mystica and it was way too long