Sea Power - EMCON

[@jeromethiel4323]

Was told by people who were there, that the USS Bainbridge, CGN-25, during the vietnam war would sit, silent and dark just off of the coast, and when the bombers returning to the aircraft carrier went over, they'd wait. If they heard jet engines, it would be all radar on, and weapons free. Smoked a few aircraft trying to follow the bombers back to the carriers. Real sneaky deaky like! ^-^

[@Prinnydood024]

The USS Sterett would do similar OPs with coastal artillery emplacements. They'd sail just within range to be fired upon. Then, the spotters got to work calling in fire from the USS New Jersey(?) who was beyond visual range of shore. My Dad(USS Sterett CG-31 Weapons Officer)said that after a few times of that happening any remaining costal artillery emplacements had second thoughts about shooting at an US ships offshore. The DDGs and CGs tasked with providing Naval gunfire support to ground forces could do so pretty much unharassed from then on.

[@kilianortmann9979]

I have heard that and similar operations by carrier launched airborne radar called "delousing".

[@osimandus]

Jingles analogy of the flashlight is good, but I would add that when you get noticed, EVERYBODY is looking at you. We would often run out a series of wired field telephones so that radio silence could be maintained. WW2 technology, being used in the 90's

[@MarkiusFox]

We still used them when I was in Field Artillery from 2005 to 2011.

[@heneagedundas]

Never mind WWII, that's WWI technology.

[@paulvamos7319]

An old adage comes to mind here! If it ain't broke, don't fix it but, if it's broke, a good whack aught to fix it! 🤣

[@j.p.vanbolhuis8678]

laying telephone lines is going to be a challenge in case of ships :)

[@j.p.vanbolhuis8678]

What i can expect to happen (either already, or in the future) will be communication lasers.

[@noseyparker6969]

You absolutely shine when it comes to Sea Power videos....no one better.

[@AgiHammerthief]

fitting for a Rear-General.

[@dougjb7848]

@@AgiHammerthiefJingles is the very model of a generally admirable Rear Admiral …

[@oldtimer4791]

Jive Turkey/Sub Brief: "Am I a joke to you?" (I have no clue if he's played this or what he's like at sea power).

[@jkirschy]

You're joking right?

[@Floki255]

Stealth17 is also nice to watch.

[@errorcrj110]

A bit of further clarification about the rules of engagement. Typically, NATO forces would/will issue warnings to the aircraft over international radio to warn them and instruct them to change their flying course away from the ship's/task force's location. Depending on whether the forces involved are at war or at peace, the main practical difference would be how many warnings you give (assuming you haven't positively identified the incoming aircraft as hostiles or neutrals)

[@geoffreyrichardson8738]

Great explanation of EMCON. I used it when I was an instructor in the R.A.N.

[@jsma9999]

this is an explanation that got as Civilian But who military stuff

[@pfridjonsson7021]

I was waiting for new Cold waters videos, but these are even better! Now I am just waiting for a new Jingles landing in a submarine.

[@dougjb7848]

I’m waiting for a Jingles landing in a CGN.

[@pnutz_2]

seeing jingles unstuck himself off the seafloor in cold waters was surprisingly entertaining

[@InservioLetum]

Somehow this made me visualise a submarine beaching itself like a killer whale, then dropping a plank and unloading a landing party. 🤣🤣🤣🤣

[@joesminecraftadv]

@@pnutz_2 sad that we cant watch those vids anymore due to yt purge,would love to see the full set again

[@pnutz_2]

@@joesminecraftadv all those and all his old world of tanks videos too. I remember seeing one of his why you heff to be mad videos where a guy in an elc amx spotted everyone on the enemy team in Karelia the whole game while A Little Less Conversation was blasting, good times

[@tomriley5790]

Basically maintain EMCON until the enemy knows where you are anyway in which case there's no real point.... slight extra rule - some radars are low probability of intercept (LPI) - basically the radar emission is modulated electronically randomly, so to an extent it looks like random noise when you pick it up and so doesn't look like a radar, the radar system of course knows that that particular random pattern is its random pattern and so can pick up and identify returns with that pattern. In this case you can keep these systems on on without the risk of giving your position away (at least to an extent as when something gets close enough that random pattern becomes powerful enough that it's clear it's not just noise!). Some point defence systems use LPI radars and so can remain on when the ship is in EMCON incase of a surprise attack and I'm sure there's alot more to it than my simple explanation (and likely classified). Also depends on geography - for example the Med is a relatively small area of sea and so it's relatively easy for the enemy to know roughly where you are anyway....

[@littlekong7685]

I have heard of radar piggybacking, where they basically use unaware third party civilian radars to get low resolution shadows, then use those shadows to decide if they want to engage detection systems or not based on computer assisted mathematically modelled probabilities. There are also new satellite systems using visual identifiers for real time target tracking. No need to guess where the enemy assets are if you have been keeping continuous eyes on them for the last few YEARS and know their whereabouts within a ~10 minute - 1 hour delay at all times. I believe the UK pioneered this with their autism brigade, giving photo reconnaissance images of empty sectors to a hand selected group of autistic savants, who spotted enemy movements instantly, then feeding that data into a computer to train it. USA has been doing this with Russian assets assaulting Ukraine to give them up to date advice on probable assault sectors.

[@ERECTED_MONUMENT]

LPI emissions can still be triangulated, they just don't look like a radar.

[@cgilleybsw]

Those missiles were early 60s tech. There is a video of the entire system around here somewhere. I was stunned. Most people think artillery looks like a cartridge - rarely. You shove the round in then add powder bags. These missiles, esp. the Terriers are assembled on the fly. The process damn near ran the length of the ship. I worked on AIM54C Phoenix missiles - I'm still amazed at the engineering that allowed the USNAVY to splat Russian bombers from sort of 100 miles away. Hell, I'm surprised we have commercial aviation.

[@Argent_Cipher]

i've been really digging these sea power videos you have been putting out jingles, not too great at these games myself but they are fun to watch

[@sabre0smile]

I paused everything else I had to watch this as soon as I saw the notification. A Jingles SeaPower vid? heck yeah!

[@MajesticDemonLord]

"Flying an Attack Profile" - *Iran Air starts nervously sweating*

[@pnutz_2]

given the last few years they can't even trust their own team

[@ThreeCatProductions]

Jingles, I really look forward to your Sea Power videos. After the first Sea Power video you released, I've been hunting around KZbin for more like it. After watching another KZbinr, who I'll spare a naming & shaming, somehow only lose 3 harriers and 2 helicopters in suicide attacks against AA defences... well... your videos on Sea Power are a breath of fresh air compared to what I've seen elsewhere. I really enjoy listening to your narration on what is happening and your explanations as to why you've chosen a course of action. I hope to see more Sea Power videos in the future.

[@TheFingerman77]

Look up ryu1940, i found him very recently. Retired OHP sonar supervisor just getting into making videos about Sea Power. He reminds me of Jive Turkey and his cold waters VODs before he sanitized his channel (now Sub Brief) and deleted/unlisted all of that content. Probably lots of OPSEC snafus over the years, though he was very careful about what he did and didn't say, but I'm devastated I'll never get to hear all the rest of his navy stories.

[@ThreeCatProductions]

@@TheFingerman77 Thanks for the recommendation, I'll give it a gander.

[@saltyaussie]

I did this mission when I got the game and holy jeebus those 130mm coastal batteries are THE MOST annoying things to take out while keeping your fleet above the water. My O-City had so many holes pricked in her from the 130s that she was a colander by the end of the mission.

[@chriswillis515]

Yes same here

[@astrofan8775]

Yeah, those coastal batteries are some really annoying and due to the concrete in front of them surprisingly tough buggers (fired probably a full dozen missiles on them. Guess how many actually hit the batteries).

[@GeekControl2MajorTim]

My uncle was on HMAS Vendetta during the Vietnam War. There's a photo of him laying in a pile of spent shells. Might have been taken during Operation Sea Dragon.

[@donaldstanker9692]

I watched Navy old salt gamer the other day. He had a discussion with one of the developers. U.S. Navy ships have no electronic counter measures activated. The developer checked and to his surprise it was true. They will work on fixing the problem next year. I have noticed the Soviets can shoot our missiles down but U.S. Navy the missiles get through. The above is why!

[@youknowwhattimeitis1735]

While watching this, it occurred to me how smart Jingles actually is, usually he’s just laughing at stupid people sailing broadside or something, but he actually has a plethora of knowledge and wit as seen in this video

[@vegladex]

I think this game would be pretty much unintelligible to me if I were just to try to play it, so I really appreciate the commentary and explanations you do to make these videos accessible!

[@NurkePL]

Love to hear the cat adding her thoughts in the background :D

[@hiddentruth1982]

I remember when those l shaped army flashlights came with the red and blue lens for night time low visibility.

[@pfridjonsson7021]

We did not have them when I started out so we put on red plastic on the lens to make it red. We did not think of it as low visibility but instead of a way to preserve the adjustment of our eyes when it was dark. Colloured light is great to use in the tent at night or mayby for looking for something in the backpack if unable to find it by touch alone, but it is crap for reading maps if there are red markings on the map. Good old times, may they never return.

[@hiddentruth1982]

@@pfridjonsson7021 The only reason I knew about it was because I asked my dad what they were for. He was a drill sergeant at the time and we would play with them by changing the lens out.

[@airplanenut89]

They still make the angled flashlights, and they still come with blue, and red lenses in the storage compartment at the bottom of the flashlight.

[@hiddentruth1982]

@@airplanenut89 I hadn't seen one in ages.

[@WorldWide-q8v]

1986 World Cruise aboard USS Truxtun CGN-35 escorting Enterprise. Left West Pac/Indian Ocean transited the Suez Canal and headed for Libya. We would set EMCON Alpha then move across Gaddafi's "Line of Death", light off everything - radar, radio, even sonar, then move back out hoping they would follow in their little boat. They did a few times, and we chopped them up. Interesting side note. When we departed we were supposed to head back the way we came, though the Suez. But Egypt decided to charge us 100 times the normal rate as we were a nuclear powered battle group, (Arkansas was with us too), and they claimed some danger from this. Admiral said "F it, we'll depart Westward out the Straights of Gibraltar", went around the Cape and got to visit Perth/Freemantle. Awesome! Truxtun then set the record for transit time from Perth to Subic, 100% all the way. Great times!

[@shadowred1980]

Enjoying the sea power video's. The level of information you bring to them is outstanding. Thank you.

[@fargengru6121]

Fun tip I learned that I see a lot of youtubers not know in this game yet: Hold shift after selecting a weapon when you right click targets. It queues them to be engaged sequentially. So you can hold shift and right click like 5 vessels, and the ship will use that weapon to engage those 5 sequentially as missiles become available. Makes it a lot less tedious in major engagements.

[@markfrank3307]

Didnt the hunters in South Park have the same policy? "They're coming right at us" BANG BANG!

[@dougjb7848]

THIN OUT THEIR NUMBERS

[@markg9674]

Manbearpig

[@pnutz_2]

*mmmmmthey'recominrightforuss*

[@stickdeath1980]

Love these mate Much love from New Zealand

[@TBSpear]

Absolutely love these. Keep them coming Jingles!

[@xenoaltrax485]

Bravo! Finally a sensible video from one of the big YT channels on this topic. It was starting to get silly seeing all those early access videos with all their ships running around in EMCON and only turning on radars when incoming threats were visually spotted. Seems like everybody was going around feeling like they were submarine commanders staying "stealthy" and just listening with towed arrays, lol.

[@gwtpictgwtpict4214]

Nice clear explanation from someone who used to this for a living. Cheers Jingles :-).

[@mr.r080t3]

Love these videos Jingles. Takes me back to when I watch your cold waters videos. I still watch them from time to time cause you present this sort of gameplay very VERY well. You make a slow game actually interesting to watch. Keep up the great work.

[@rightlyryan]

Love the Sea Power videos! Keep them coming :)

[@Insquidious_txt]

Continuation of the best series Jingles does, its a good day!

[@petrchromiak2533]

Hello Mr. Mighty! Your Sea Power got me to read Tom Clancy for the first time (I started with Red Storm Rising) and it was great! So big thank you!

[@Strykenine]

Really enjoying the Sea Power content Jingles.

[@jockcop4205]

I’m a simple man. I see a new jingles episode, I hit play.

[@phoenixprotocol7]

First salt miner here. And from Oklahoma nonetheless.

[@leelime9857]

Been really enjoying these salt lord you keep making them I'll keep watching

[@davidlabedz2046]

Jingles, thank you for explaining EMCOM. and an interesting sce.

[@mpersad]

Really enjoying this series, particularly your RN insights. Great work!

[@jamesallen8838]

I do really enjoy these video. Please keep them coming

[@tim192837645]

Wait wait wait, so you're saying it's a *bad* idea to surrepticiously install a Starlink transceiver aboard the ship? Mind blown

[@firefox3249]

Always great when you see one of these uploaded!

[@paulvamos7319]

Thank you for sharing! That looked too easy! 😂

[@Nderak]

23:22 as ice cube said " if youre scared go to church, you knew the job was dangerous when you took it"

[@thomasembleton1467]

Great vid jingles I play a lot of command so knowing when to turn the radars on or off is incredibly useful, especially if they have anti radar weapons!

[@mattgrant3197]

Loving the episodes! Cant wait for the next one

[@UltimateDeliciousPie]

Hey jingles, people do get confused with the ROE. For us Brits when we use the different cards, Alpha, Bravo and Charlie. (Edit: There is the exceptional 429 Alpha, but that is only used in certain circumstances and needs a very high authority.) Alpha for those that don't know is your inherent right to self defence. If the target is perceived to be a threat to life, to yourself or others, or is a threat to equipment which is mission critical, you can engage.

[@Ovela108]

Being a ctt where this is a small fraction of my job in the navy this is awesome

[@mabonagrininogi3303]

Whoever writes First - the Bots where faster :p

[@EricDKaufman]

Yah!!! Jingles playing Seapower

[@Commando_Arc]

I've been looking forward to this (count dooku revenge of the sith)

[@MrDgwphotos]

The flight decks on the FRAM Gearings is for the DASH ASW drones, which were considered obsolete in the US Navy by this point.

[@spartan463]

Wow I don't think I've seen more EMCON stuff on youtube then this last week. But honestly excellent analogy with the flashlight, I think the world of EW is pretty unknown to the general public. That being said, out of all the EMCON videos I've watched recently, no ones discussed the use of radar pickets or TRU's, and if this game has LINK, that's all you should need.

[@montro2220]

Things went boom.

[@connycontainer9459]

Oh Jingles, kind of obvious where you got the inspiration for this one from.

[@user-kf9cd2di2x]

YIPPEEEE MORE JINGLES SEA POWER VIDEOS

[@xenoaltrax485]

Regarding facing off against SS-N-12 missiles, at a flight altitude of 50m the radar horizon on that would be at least 30 km, so having your air search radar on would definitely allow for detection a lot further away as compared to relying on visual sighting without radar.

[@pnutz_2]

jingles gets one mission closer to saving his own life in the gulf

[@sedatedape315]

I can see me using the Mission Editor to make some changes to the game provided missions. They often start both forces too close to each other. And since the game-period US anti-ship missiles suck compared those the Soviet had, distance would benefit both belligerent fleets. But definitely the US. Being so close means that the US side don't have helos up and most likely you've already got Soviet missiles heading for you. For the Soviet side there's only time to launch missiles and pray. With distance they could come up with a strategy and move fleet units plus designate individual targets to each ship. And most missions, if included, barely give carriers time to launch their aircraft before finding themselves under attack. I will be using (haven't purchased the game yet) the idea of launching a helo and sending it off some distance from my ships. And as you suggested, using it as the radar picket. I've enjoyed your Sea Power episodes. And I've learned a lot about the game and how best to play many of the units.

[@stmichaelminion]

Very good explanation

[@Lii0Nz]

Great video as always please continue to make more of them. Would you ever consider making one of these videos with someone like Dr Clark I think the two of you would be a very interesting pairing to watch.

[@ggkavlos]

Paul you know we want more of this in future, 🤫

[@firestarteronyoutube5542]

I look on KZbin I see an SP video I see it is about Jingles I am pleased

[@cooldued11]

I played this same scenario just a few days ago as my first in the game. I was very annoyed by the fact that following the EMCON order lead to immediate destruction of 2 of my ships. Basically said the same thing as you after that. Following EMCON guidance is what we’d call in the army “METT-TC dependent” minus the TC probably.

[@lochlannmacdonald1679]

More Sea power please Jingles.

[@matthewstevens8757]

I'm reminded of the South Park rules of engagement: if you shout "It's coming right for us" first, anything goes...

[@geoffreyrichardson8738]

You never noticed the scorched paint work after launching missiles, sure it’s not scratched but someone’s going to have to sand it back and repaint the area before the X.O. goes berserk.

[@Hellhunde64]

Nice one Jingles.

[@katana1430]

(Remembers Jane's Fleet Command) "This sounds strangely familiar"

[@VerrueckterKerl85]

i would love to see this type of gameplay and graphics on a new C&C! 😍 Of course with base building and land units. 😁👍

[@TheGiggityG]

Jingles, this is why you make vids on yt.

[@nebula6084]

I need MORE videos of this game

[@DarkFire515]

Yep, this is why orders from on high usually have to be filtered through a good dose of common sense. The "commanders intent" section is by far the most important piece of any op order.

[@CharliMorganMusic]

If you don't have an awac or some means of remote search and track, you have to turn your radars on because it's better to get fired on and know so you can defend yourself than get fired on an not know. Best thing you can do is have your worst warship 20m out from the center of your group as a radar picket. Unless there's a Kirov or Oscar-class.

[@ryu1940]

very cool I made a video about this a couple days ago and I totally agree!

[@saabaton169]

Petition for jingles to make this a more frequent game and to bring back cold waters with dot or epic mod!

[@kathrynnewton5203]

Ahh Jingles. You, sir, are one of the few people who use the proper term for AIRCRAFT. Way too many use PLANE and that just irks me. SO thank you.

[@rockyman3337]

We need jingles to do a history series talking about the history of ships or wars. (History with Jingles)

[@nk_3332]

He could team up with Dr. Alexander Clarke.

[@onenote6619]

There's also radar-homing missiles, though they are rare beasts, especially in the 70s and certainly not from North Korea. Still, if they ever are in play, homing in on active radar is very easy, accurate and hard to spoof.

[@desertphoenix6980]

Got notification of this one.

[@cc0767]

This game reminds me a bit of atlantic fleet, if you still remember that! Had great fun with it, sadly it does not work anymore on modern androids

[@Galdar7777]

Love there videos!!

[@Seth90]

I mean ~technically~ the mission briefing regarding EMCON just said you had to maintain radio silence. At no point did it order you to keep your radar offline...! 😉

[@zehelkitty6733]

Sea Power Sunday!!!!!

[@bobsyouruncle617]

Man ... i miss you playing warthunder

[@TheAgileAnalyst]

Jingles ignoring a policy, scores 1000%.

[@thebats5270]

Great work Jingle! Excellent Video, is there a scenario with RAN craft? I would imagine that a fully RAN force would have a more limited capability than the force in your video. Though I don't think there were full RAN or even full commonwealth (RAN and RNZN) formations either outside of troop transport by HMAS Sydney and HMAS Melbourne. Would be an interesting scenario. I know that RAN ships also had restrictions on what they could fire upon, again, that would be an interesting scenario with ships that have different rules of engagement.

[@JimmyCricket93]

I tried making some early on, an ANZUS CBG getting ambushed by a bunch of soviet subs in the Hauraki Golf, but it broke and i havent been back in to fix it yet.

[@LiteralTitle-sg6kj]

Jingles: "To hell with EMCON and weapons free!"

[@aliveRaptor2929]

Yup learning ✅

[@thestormai449]

Me: "Hey, government, where did that 1/3rd of my paycheck go?" Government: 15:53

[@OMG.HopsGnue]

Watched and Liked 👍

[@jamesmaclennan4525]

Actually Jingles..the orders stated you had to maintain Radio Silence which allows you to run your radars within the RoE

[@richduerr4471]

If a minor threat comes along, it may tempt you to break EMCON to light it up and either chase it away, or to engage it. Once you make that decision and light up your air defenses, it and probably other craft, either air or surface are outside your engagement range, but are scanning for the appearance of your radar signals, which they can only find by scanning the frequencies that are expected for air or surface search radars. That minor threat is simply bait, so that when you light it up, they can determine the frequency of those radars, which is their mission. They will turn back the threat generally before it is fired upon, because they now have what they need. They will often rinse, wash, repeat to get the frequencies of as many radars and comms radios as they can get. If the enemy decides to actually attack that in force, they will have electronic warfare aircraft jamming exactly those frequencies, to make those radar defenses difficult or impossible to gain or maintain radar locks until their attacking crafts are within engagement range of their own offensive weapons. This worked to a fair extent in the 1970's through the early 1990's, but today's technology like frequency hopping and stuff have mitigated many of these issues. When I operated the Seasparrow system in the mid-1980's manual frequency shifting was built into our system. We used it in practice, but never had a real threat to test it upon during my time aboard.

[@azraiell]

The (R) in the parenthesis under the contacts class means that you had detected it by radar... You were not EMCON since mission start 2:50 4:05

[@davidtaylor9904]

Great video. Enjoy your cup of tea and sandwiches

[@PNurmi]

I had a hope that you were going to go through a scenario with a Virginia class CGN given that is what you show in the posting shot. Having qualified as a SWO on one, I was wondering how well you would operate her..

[@jbeckley6849]

Jingles teaching us how to be insubordinate.

[@Jason-35D]

This reminds me of the Houthis that we’re on a boat that shot at a US Navy helicopter from ten miles away with a .50 machine gun. The maximum range of a .50 machine gun is something like 4.5 miles, well short of the 10 miles between them. It was hostile intent; the ten miles between them was definitely in range of hellfire missiles... it ended poorly for the Houthis.

[@chriswillis515]

@@Jason-35D it’s say do not fire unless fired upon, it doesn’t say you have to wait to be hit, or even that what’s fired has to get close. Also it’s about the maxim that’if you’ve found yourself in a fair fight you’ve failed to plan.’

[@adammullarkey4996]

10:35 Ackshually, Jingles, it doesn't have it's radar active. It was picked up by the radar on the Thomas. The only reason that you know it's a fighter is because it has a "semi-small" radar cross section. In the information window, the green items are the things you know about that contact; anything in white is just hypothetical, assuming it is the unit on the left side of that row. So, as far as you know, it could be anything with a semi-small RCS. Also, you didn't pick up the ground targets on search radar; at the top of the information window, it says the Oklahoma City picked them up with ESM. Since there's no radar signature, I'd guess that means you picked up generic radio traffic from the contact. You can also tell you don't have an active radar contact because you don't have the exact position of the contact, but rather an ellipse. Active radar (in the game, at least) always gives you an exact position for any contact it detects. EDIT: Correction. You identify the ground targets as radar sites at around 11:50, based on the fact that they're using a generic "surface search radar," which you detect with the OK's ESM.

[@prollins6443]

Jingles, did you send the link for this video to Flambass? He needs to learn this lesson!

[@KeyserDK]

Freshly made coffee and Onkel Jingels, is there a better start to one's morning? Thank you Sir.

[@ahoannon5711]

Exactly! 🥱

[@Penfolduk001]

It would seem Navy rules of engagement seem to have more wiggle room than Arny ones. I remember seeing a documentary on infantry in Afghanistan and there "Do not fire unless fired upon" was literal. In one case, they could see the Taliban over the other side of the river. They could even see the start of the wire for the IED trigger starting from their position. But they weren't allowed to fire until the Taliban set the IED off. Which injured a soldier. Then again, I suppose a soldier dying is unfortunate. Losing an asset is far worse...

[@edmartin875]

So, the army would watch a guy wearing a suicide vest cross the river and start running straight toward the largest concentration of army soldiers he can see. And they would just watch and do nothing else until AFTER he explodes. Yeah, that sounds like the Army. Is this related to the army term "cannon fodder"? I also see what may be a semi--valid rationale for "fragging". Reminds me of pictures I saw of a couple of Army Generals. Eisenhower, General of the Army in charge of allied forces winning WW 2, and Westmorland, General in charge of American Army losing in Vietnam. Eisenhower had 1 row of ribbons. Westmorland had 6 or 7 rows of what looked like "participation" ribbons.