World of Warships- Secondaries Are BEYOND Broken, Overpowered, & Need To Be Nerfed NOW!!!

Sooooooooooooo here ya go I have finally fully addressed the accusations against secondaries.
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[@baguette8877]

“Put away the Guillotine” Sad French noises

[@Lupus_Indomitus]

🤣🤣🤣

[@SaiIor_Moon]

Mon dieu!!! 😮

[@abdullahertogral8845]

hon hon hon hon

[@p_nilly]

Robert should jump into a secondary specced Schlieffen and see how "easy" it is to rack up damage without getting munched by the entire enemy team

[@Posilepton]

That's because the ship is squishy and that's how they made it balanced. Imagine if Ohio had Schlieffen secondaries.

[@theripcord03]

Idk I love my schlief. If you know how to properly play it, it has massive potential. But you can't just yeet it into the battle right off the bat or you get targeted by all the border hugging players

[@p_nilly]

@@theripcord03 Agreed. The point here being that you can't just W+M1 your way to easy damage though, even in a Schlieffen

[@gregorklegan5708]

I dont want to remember myself how many games it took me to finaly read good the map and browl well against enemys.❤ and yes sometimes i see DDs that start their main guns in my sec range 😢 feel sry for them but its pvp and i would never give up my secondary. Because when they start to Brrrrrt they BRRRRRRT the hell out of an enemy🎉 as special light cruisers DDs subs

[@tigrexwalker285]

This sounds like a DD player complaining about getting hit

[@Spearyn]

If he is getting getting spotted in range of a secondary bb that's his problem. Man posted his whole arsenal of cringe.

[@tigrexwalker285]

@@Spearyn That's what I thought too. If secondaries are hitting you as a DD. You're too close.

[@Weathersbeast]

@@tigrexwalker285idk I play gunboat DDs and got slapped from like 10km. That’s longer than my main gun range. It’s a struggle. But I digress, BB secondaries are the same size as my main battery so it’s not necessarily a problem.

[@kirinrias6912]

@@Weathersbeast so what i like to play bbs and dd, if you have a problem with it bring out the range of your guns, its possible, you need to sacrifice other things for this but the same gos for sec bbs that needs to sacrifice other things to get their secs out to this range

[@Weathersbeast]

@@kirinrias6912 I can see sides to both. I kind of wonder if making the secondaries controlled by the player would be interesting. To be fair though, I think the only thing that’s felt broken to me right now is air power is too strong. I was 90 seconds in yesterday and got hit by those bouncing bombs.

[@gothamgoon4237]

Robert is under the impression that only his dd should be able to shoot anything and cause damage. How dare you shoot back people.

[@-sly-Critique]

German BB's have the worst dispersion and if the secondary are nerfed those ships will be sheet. I think your pal Robert is pushing too close to BB secondary builds and getting shredded and is just angry.

[@Krazmedic]

Show us on the doll where the evil secondary hit your non concealed DD or light cruiser...

[@Steviemightdoit-cg1su]

you should have shown him the score card from a mass or georgia game where you get 400 secondary hits and they only do 12k damage or less total.

[@Mike-DuBose]

robertshaver4432 seems a bit unstable. If a game upsets him this much it's frightening to imagine his reaction to real life situations that causes him distress.

[@judd1971]

I think you should now do a comparison. Do a video on the island hugging HE spamming DDs or the DDs that can completely cover the map with torpedoes. 20 km range on a boat that can put 20 torpedoes in the water and not be seen until you get within 6km is busted.

[@DevSolar]

The meta also makes it psychologically difficult to play secondary builds. Your BB friends are usually fine with hanging back and sniping from a distance. *While at the same time* blaming you if you play passive ("you're a brawler, move in!") just as well as if you play aggressive ("why do you suicide"). You are _relying_ on your team to get you into mid / late gameplay where engagement distances get closer. Good luck playing a build relying on your team... So, no. Secondary builds aren't no-brainers, quite the opposite.

[@KarazaBasilea]

You speak out of my heart! People always complaining and it feels soo good, when u turn the match midgame to a win and those already died players have to apologize to you... cause you you're on top of the winning table! I

[@thefancyapple1823]

Oh no, anyways, this won't stop me from trying to get myself a Georgia from the current event!

[@ReDiR20]

Georgia is worst T9 BB, not recommended

[@Spearyn]

Not even close to the worst T9 BB

[@skipper4126]

you actually need to buy flags now too maximize their effective range. And watch as they fail to track and hit the smaller ships they exist to fight off in the first place.

[@slowbro-]

A very important weakness with Schlieffen secondaries is that their firing angles are quite limited. The ship's optimal secondary dpm only exists if ship angles past 56 degrees, which is more horizontal than vertical. Very vulnerable to broadside hits. The safer the Schlief angles, the weaker the secondary firepower. 32-56 degrees, dpm = 85%. 15-32 degrees, dpm = 70%, 11-15 degrees, dpm =50%

[@Lt_Koro]

I'd argue that goes for all german bbs. I have yet to play one with good gun angles. You practically cant shoot all guns without risking a massive hit

[@mabonagrininogi3303]

It is quite surprising to me how little (in general and by slm) the manual secondary skill is understood. The skill is charging up while your secondaries are firing in any way shape or form. And they definitly do not reset compleatly when the priority target is changed. They get set to 80% of the current value not 0%. Meaning, when a destroyer pops up while you where already firing your secondarys and your skill is maxed out - you can instantly switch to him and daka with 45% improvement already going... I main secondary ships and can only recomend pressing shift from and hover over the icon for the manual secondary skill from time to time. I bet a lot of people would be surprised how easy it is to fire up the value of this skill an keep it going.

[@mrp55net]

A secondary build comes in handy when you're focusing on a cruiser/BB with full broadside, and a pesky DD/SS comes around an island corner on a torpedo run.

[@chrisaustin9949]

One thing I've found is that secondaries work well in PvE, espically Operations but they are not as effective in PvP for the reason Sea Lord gives. You just never get close enough to the enemy.

[@jackcrawford6078]

To Summarize; if you have a secondary build ship, you've 'put in the work' to get it that way. Robert; if you can't beat em, join em.

[@bunsenhoneydew6551]

Specing for secondaries is similar to the choice towards a fully torp or fully gun build on a hybrid DD. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. Mostly doesn't for me, but fun when it does - especially with Lütjens

[@Pincer88]

I tend to side with SLM, but... If Robert is a dedicated DD player I can see where's he coming from. Maybe he doesn't play the stealthy torp/ambush ones and prefers gunboats instead and that would add to his discontent. Being a BB and CC player myself having had to run from invisible DDs entire games spamming torps at me, I can say the feeling is mutual. Maybe time to try playing BBs for a change Robert to see how life is on the receiving end. I mean, how much skill does stealth require exactly going up against CCs and BBs without radar or hydro? I think changing positions every once in a while will make both sides of the argument more appreciative of the particular frustrations and bonuses that come with certain ship types. Unless of course one simply wants to whine and keep barking up a certain tree, which is after al a hallmark of current times. I'd rather try to adhere to the USMC principle of adapt and (learn to) overcome by experimenting. Detrimental for one's stats (but who is in it for that might better be investing in stock and watch the daily updates) but rewarding if it brings success after quite some trial and error. Even more rewarding than running around and stacking kills or damage almost on autopilot. It's just a thought.

[@davequaschnick2559]

When they limit DD reloads up the reload times, make CV actually have to be under steam to conduct air operations, make subs slow, then they can take one of the only actual historic things in the game from my BBs.

[@TheMarkemmy]

Another good one SLM, If it wasn't for killer secondaries, most German BBs would be extra hard to play. As you said, you have to give up something to get good secondaries. The best place for most of the German secondary builds right now is Ops and Asymmetrical Battles. Taking on multiple T8 BBs in AB with anything but a GKF would be tough at best.

[@blurredvision11]

Hey Robert ! You should grind for the Schlieffen and show us your winrate after 50-100 games ;)

[@Lt_Koro]

Bro my win rate with german BBs is probably negative 💀

[@xray86delta]

I agree with your argument, mountbatten. Building a high tier secondary ship, and trying to force an engagement in high tiers often results in a wall of torpedoes! Not as easy as it sounds. 😉

[@Colonel-Sigma]

Can confirm Agincourt has ridiculously buffed up secondary's for her tier. She is also slow, lightly armored, couldn't maneuver her way out of the pacific, and her main guns might as well not exist; did I mention her AA score is 0? Her secondary's are her only pro and every time you queue in her its gamble as to weather you will get to use her for her purpose or just steam at the speed of snail trying to catch up with the team. Secondary ships are swingy, the game will either go gloriously or (more likely) you will have the honor of getting swarmed or doing absolutely nothing at all. Richard is right, you dont have to shoot the little guns yourself, sure, but the skill lies in your positioning and timing. Slip up at all and you will get wiped because secondary ships, especially KMS and SMS, are meant to draw and take fire; players who know anything about them will recognize the danger and gun them down before they get close enough to become a threat. It is up to the people playing those brawlers to stay alive long enough to use the tools theyre given. To disregard that is insane and richard is a madman.

[@AspieStingrayLover]

Well said, Sea Lord. Yeah, secondary battleship gameplay is a bit more complicated than clicking control key and left clicking your mouse to get big damage numbers. There’s the map awareness. There’s the angling of armor. There’s the question of when to fall back. There’s the question of “Should I even push right now?” Yeah, secondary gameplay is, quite honestly, an art. It takes time to learn, and learn correctly. And it’s not as simple or as entirely beneficial as Robert is portraying it to be, as you are correct in saying that you give up quite a bit to create an “effective” secondary gun build . . . and even then, you are not necessarily guaranteed success every single time.

[@britinmadrid]

So OP that the Schlieffen was killed by an invisible, uncounterable, torp-spamming Sub!

[@wramsey2656]

Those of us who were in this game in its early years all remember what secondary guns were like on BBs and CLs. I wrote many tickets to WG as to why a 127mm gun battery (as an example) of the same mark and caliber if moved from a DD (with 11km range) is magically reduced to 5-6km on a BB? BBs at the time who had just fired their guns were sitting ducks to DDs with torpedoes, speed, and smoke. We have fought WG too long to make these same gun batteries the same no matter which hull they sit on. Robert needs to play other ship classes if he really wants to enjoy the game and quit being a whiner to you Sea Lord. Keep doing what your doing we got your back. o7 !!

[@wombat4191]

Robert doesn't need to play other ship classes to enjoy the game, he just needs to play the one he's playing better. Constantly getting killed by secondaries and coming into the conclusion that they are OP without playing any secondary ship is such a 40% WR player move.

[@3pleblow]

I think its a skill issue. I like my secondary BBs but its hard to make them work most of the time.

[@broccanmacronain457]

I agree with you SLM. One finally took my GK into the asymmetric battle style and it is a blast. Two Robert complaints about the free gift of secondary fire, while he does not say anything about the automatic damage of Antiaircraft guns but of course they do not damage destroyers (his main ship type) I think he falls into the category that some of the WOT heavy players are in. They screamed about the TDs that should hit them getting shot because their camo was too good, or the lights because their turret rotation was too slow to keep up with circle strafing, or artillery that required no skill to hit them because they are hiding behind cover. I believe that he is probably one of those people that instead of "adapt and overcome", they "complain and gripe".

[@rodgerisx]

Well imagine if WG decides to give you full manual control of your secondaries just like how you switch from Main Guns to Torpedoes. While waiting for your main guns to reload you use secondaries "manually". (I remember this as a mechanic used in wows blitz which i want to see in wows pc)

[@Xerocus1]

Warthunder does this, and also allows you to manual fire your AA - honestly it gets a little overwhelming, your AI gunners are okay, but you'll always be more accurate manually, so now keep track of the incoming plane, fire main guns, oh an enemy ship came around the corner, switch to secondaries, forgot about the plane, got hit by torp and now you're flood-fighting too, just intime for all your crew to be occupied and you die from the main battery you didn't avoid because of the 7000 things you had to manage manually - still fun enough to play from time to time tho..

[@robertdurham1857]

On behalf of all Roberts, I apologize for this Robert's behavior. I'm sure we can attribute his attitude, poorly chosen discourse and pre-teen vocabulary to youth and a lack of life experience. He will likely remain grumpy until his mother refills his bucket of select crispy snacks and restocks the fridge with Mt. Dew, for he must be out again.

[@Taliyon]

My brother, who does not play the game, overheard the intro to this video... And he said: "Sounds like a skill issue"... As a DD main myself, I share this conclusion. Secondaries are the least scary thing I face. It's only annoying that I have to wait a few seconds to go dark. If secondaries shred me, I was out of position and going to die anyways...

[@drink15]

This guy forgets that there are only a handful of ships where they are even useful. Not to mention how close you have to be and you have to be spotted. The salt is strong with this one.

[@MidnightRoselle222]

When you focus any BB into secondaries, you lose a lot of points for other skills, like survivability. Not every BB is worth setting up for secondaries because they don't all have very good range or armor pen. Good example is Kii. I run a secondary spec on my Kii, but only the 100mm secondaries can pen 32mm of armor so most of my secondaries don't do much damage to anything with 32mm of armor or more.

[@Epic_candle]

I love it when I get t o push into the enemy line or punish overextended cruisers and sometimes accidentally killing DDs but yeah it's usually pretty bad since you can't play along with the current meta, you just barely fits

[@irishwind1971]

I still think secondary build BBs are still viable. And a few months ago I was in a bottom tier Bismarck and at the endgame, we were behind, it was me and 2 other BBs vs 3 DDs and a sub. By end match it was me vs a Shimikaze. And I won. My secondaries made all the difference. The other DDs tried to gunboat me at close range. And they all paid for that mistake. I also enjoy the EU torp DDs. If that dude is having trouble with BB secondaries, he needs to re-evaluate his tactics.

[@RabidTazmanianChihuahua]

My 2c is that Robert does have a point, but as a DD main he can SIMPLY STAY AWAY from secondary range and problem solved, or get a Yolo Emilio (though I admit my Hannover dev struck one once from sheer luck). I'm a German BB main, and there's no way my secondaries can do a damn thing if a DD simply doesn't get in range or is not spotted. Hell, almost any ship can avoid the secondaries by simply staying out of range. I know, easier said that done sometimes, but the concept still works.

[@NoName-wi8xz]

Yes and also keep in mind that many ships (except ohio) give up alot to get secondaries. Usually its main guns, which are the most consistant source of dmg

[@SofaKingA]

Yeah I don't think staying away should be used as an excuse for any class or WG gets away with adding subs to the game. "The strategy against subs right now...well just sail away!"

[@RabidTazmanianChihuahua]

@@SofaKingA Lmao ok, you have a point.

[@NoName-wi8xz]

@@SofaKingA its not that ''staying away'' is a counter to seconadies. Its that its very hard to get close enough to use them without being focusfired by whole enemy team. Seconadies would be broken if meta would be close to mid range brawls, not long race snipefest

[@micheljavert5923]

How wonderful it must be, how blissful, to live and work in a world so free of worry and concern that the performance of imaginary weapons platforms in utterly meaningless contests should generate so much ardor. I *envy* the beatific Peace that must surround this person. Truly, they must know an ease and comfort that is alien to all but the most privileged among us.

[@pcsproshop8972]

Thanks SLM for taking on that topic. I would posit, there are FAR more toxicity enhancing mechanics in WoWS than secondaries (IMHO). -Detection mechanic: Spotting a a BB behind a [virtual] Granite mountain 15 km away, the second they leave cover, they disappear... -Firing/Aiming mechanic: Still broken, stationary, broadside cruisers STILL fail to be punished. -Border Mechanic: Still eplotation fodder, and abused almost every match. -Laughably useless AA & ASW: When 20 "proximity hits" on an [apparently, according to the MM] stationary Sub, while not yeilding a kill UNTIL AFTER your BB get's sunk by more INVISIBLE targets. -Teams failure to understand operating as Teams [really don't think I need to detail this]. -Monetary "Vice Grip": reducing player profits at every possible moment. Bait & Switching ship specs/drops/operations profits ALL getting nerfed to force avid players to PURCHASE more than ever before. -Maximum Profit, for Minimum Effort. That is just the [proverbial] "tip of the iceberg. There are Game Engine stability issues, still causing the same crashes that have been a "Feature" in this game since the beginning, that simply do NOT get addressed. Performance issues, that are just using their code WRONG. I could go on & on & on. I will, however, end it there by saying THANK YOU SLM for addressing ONE of these "debatable" topics. The IMPERICAL issues, are just not important enough to address by WoWS so we'll just have to either accept them OR quit. ~this is the way~ ~v~

[@pcsproshop8972]

again IMHO, the game needs a "ground-up" recode IF it ever want's to be any kind of "legitimate AAA title". It's just "break/fix" at this point. We see no appreciable efforts to fix any of those odd stability issues & god knows we could use far less "wonky" mechanics that seem to never get fixed...

[@privateer9181]

the Shikishima went from being good ship to average after the secondary nerf

[@Caninoization]

No! do not nerf secondaries, without secondaries German BB are just a trash!

[@Klaus_Klavier]

They already miss most of their shots compared to other BB secondaries and that’s with full secondary build

[@Lurker1222]

I’m grinding up to tier 10 German battle cruiser now. It’s a lot of fun but secondary builds are not easy or mindless. Especially at the tier I’m in right now, you gotta get in pretty close to do secondary damage and at that point I’m taking the brunt of most of the enemies fire.and I don’t last long enough to do that secondary damage

[@oldewolfe6968]

I Built into my 2nds on Roma to Amp Up my Main Guns.... Building into 2nds has my Main Turrets to a 21sec 180* Time and a 27sec Base Reload Inside my Secondary Range, which I also Extended.... At that point the 2nds are my Early Warning System as much as they are Fire and Forget while I Pre Aim my Mains for a Drive By Broadside.... This Move has Surprised a Few Pub Players that don't Expect the Turret Speed OR the Reload when I Deliver a 2nd Volley from the Mains on the Otherside while they're still trying to Chase me with theirs.... Use the Same Builds on my German BB's too, especially anything with Torp's, those become my Finishers ala Mortal Combat after the Main's do their Fair Share...

[@sethdrost5526]

I played my max reload secondary Republic and it is sooo much fun, had a 200k ranked match yesterday No one expects the sub 13 second reload and the secondaries are so accurate even without the accuracy skill

[@HashMyth]

Secondary fire is more RNG and depends on size of and what type of Secondary is being fired. I for one have built a heavy Secondary build and used it mainly on large German BB's that have German AP. It can delete many medium armored ships but anything heavy-duty... It will just delete you because majority of the time, you have to be broadside to get the most from your Secondary battery. So overall they are not OP, but they can give bonus damage as well as keep light to medium armored ships keep distance.

[@mikejodane]

Hey Sea Lord! I'd really love it if you would make a video on how research bureau works and best ways to get reserch points. Please!

[@Donutdude-b9p]

Legit never knew you could control what the secondary shoots at if there are multiple targets in range

[@garyhinkle6895]

My game name is Keyman4u, I've been in the game since 2017. I play primary BBs. In the begging, the DDs and CC were to escort and the BB help defend the smaller ships. NOT NOW. It is everyone for themself and NO team plays. It has gotten to there are more torps in the water than the ships are and the BBs struggle to get any damage. There used to be a strategy in the play, do not see much of that now, everyone for themselves. Use to see the CV, DD, and CC capture and spot ship for the BBs. Now they just run in and use the torps for the points and the BBs are left for cleanup. On the secondaries, I am a primarily BB player and all my BBs are set up the same. 1st main guns and the AP is primary, I will use HE on the Subs, DD, and CC long distance. Then the secondary build is the AA defense. Yes, that includes the last stand and the AA modules when the ship's captain reaches that point. I do not do anything for the defense of the ship. I usually survive however if I do not then I have made enough to cover the cost of the ship. I always focus the AAs on the subs first, the DDs second, and the CC third. I shoot DDs first and CC second. They are the greatest threat with the torps to a BB ship. If he has a problem with the AAs of a BB then He is TOO CLOSE to the BB and that is his fault. He is crying over spilled milk, he needs to put a bib on and stop trying.

[@drzoidberg1]

I agree with your assessment @sealordmountbatten, building into secondaries is a balanced trade-off from survivability and main gun performance. However, the amount of damage is a not a fair assessment of how well the build performs over main guns. Secondaries are deadliest vs DDs, CLs, then CAs, with the first classes not having a lot of hit points. If we could see performance on avg % of hit points from a target ship and then filter by game mode I have a feeling that secondaries will perform well. For example, secondaries do well in Ranked b/c the maps are smaller and they really hurt DDs, its not about how much damage they do, its taking away the DD's ability to do it's thing and DDs win games.

[@jamieclark_yyc]

I agree with a lot of the commentary below from others who are describing how hard it is to play secondaries effectively. I play BBs a lot and when I started I thought it'd be fun to spec out secondaries on the Pommern, Georgia, and Ohio (plus the Napoli), press "W" and let the fireworks begin! Oh how wrong I was! Despite my desire to brawl, it did not go according to plan until I got a lot smarter about it. In fact, I found it incredibly frustrating until I got good at this play style: I was getting chunked on my broadside, eating walls of torpedoes and the like. Playing secondaries in my view is so difficult due to the positioning aspect you mention Sea Lord. Knowing when to push in, what targets you are facing, what damage you can do to them, what angle to take, and what damage you'll trade in the equation is a lot of math to keep track of. And if you get any one of these wrong it definitely won't be worth it. I think judging all these criteria in real time is harder than sniping from the back row, where leading and aiming is the main criteria (though there is admittedly skill involved with that, to be sure). Recently I had a battle in my Pommern where I caught a cruiser (can't recall which one, I think it was a DM or a Worcester) side hugging an island opposite to me. I had some decent cover myself, got into secondary range and crept forward as he backed away. I was going fast enough just to keep him in range and not overly expose myself or give up my angles. Basically burned him down for about 50k damage from secondaries alone once I had flared out wide enough to open them all up on him. Now, he might have been choked at how "easy" it was for me to do this, but the planning and strategy took a lot of work to not get zapped myself. Look at it this way: I don't play subs much, but I do know that if I get absolutely stealth shotgunned by a sub, it likely took that player some decent skill to get into position to do that undetected. Ditto for back row snipers that engage and disengage out of detection. Yeah, it can be frustrating for me because I don't use those play styles and don't really understand how its done... but I respect players that are skilled at doing it. A good secondary player is definitely deserving of respect. It's just a lot harder than it looks.

[@Nekomi214]

For having played quite a lot the Republique (who got a hell of a secondary at the time), the thing was mostly a "defensive layer" for me... enough to deter DD of coming too close... but if I managed to get a kill with it, it was just pure dumb luck (a poor damaged DD that tried to flee but entered my sec fire range...).

[@flashgudron188]

I've come back to wows few weeks ago after quite a long time, last time I played was the secondaries rework and everyone was complaining about them being sh*t, now again they are "OP", that just says that community can never be satisfied, everyone wants balance, but no one wants to play balanced ships. I'll casually play same ships I already own, grind new lines whether they are currently OP or weak. Much love to all the creators! Peace!

[@hectorc7080]

You are loosing your time. People like "robert" dont want to debate, only care about his opinion and get attention. Actually, not really sure if is worth to bring attention to him making a whole video. In any case, anyone with a avg knowledge of the game knows that, even with the super busted Schieflen , the best SS of the game, the meta is not really favoring pushing and short range encounters. For each great secondary game you get 3 or 4 that are thrash, specially in higher tiers. So, don't loose your time with that kind of toxic players.

[@tdbraun6837]

I do agree there should be more intentionality in the use of the secondaries. It is always weird when my secondaries sink some DD and I wasn't even aware it was there. -- maybe you should have to designate targets for them to shoot, and have the ability to designate more than one at a time, which is the equivalent of ordering "fire at will" in a real life battleship.

[@mikehenthorn1778]

From the video I just watched about the carriers in Midway the four fires on kaga and akagi were truly horrifying

[@2fat4airborne44]

The one who complained surely havent played much secondary ships. Can they be stronger then other is certain situations....sure. But thats true for most ships. Play them to their strengh and you have a advantage - if they have any. The range is predictable - behave accordingly (you and youre opponents). main guns are inconsistent - behave accordingly, it has torps - behave accordingly etc. Its very easy to kill a ship that over extends, thats also true for a Schlieffen.

[@donpfoutz625]

As in real life I am terrified of fire. I also do not have any high level commanders. (Well, a 15 point captain on my Kii is my highest.). I like setting fires on ships, as that few seconds of burn damage add up. I love DDs and CLs but I live with the fact that CAs, BBs, and CVs will melt me down. Mr Shaver, suck it up buttercup.

[@JJsGA]

"Robert" sounds like a DD that got burned down by a Schlieffien 😂

[@jaywerner8415]

What moss covered seashell has Mr RobertShaver been living under? If he was saying this FOUR YEARS AGO when Secondaries WHERE basically Aim Bots then i would agree. But no Mr Robert, you are what some like to call the LOWEST COMMON DENOMINATOR. In order to make Secondaries HIT anything anymore you need the 4 point kill "Manual Secondary Battery Aiming" which allows you to designate WHICH ship to shoot at and gives them a Accuracy buff over the course of 45 seconds. That is pretty much ALL you need (without it they can't hit jack all). But if you REALLY want to get the most out of them, Take Secondary Mod 1 (20% more accuracy and Range for Secondary Batteries) and the 3 point Secondary Range skill. Secondary Mod 2 also gives the Secondary's a 10% reload buff (and buffs your AA and Flak damage).

[@BlackHearthguard]

Manual secondaries takes 45 seconds to reach peak accuracy, I'm pretty sure

[@jaywerner8415]

@@BlackHearthguard Close enough for government work. Pretty sure its 45 seconds now that you mention it.

[@VincentWalker-ew8kh]

I did a secondary build on my fuso. Still pretty good at long range and surprises the hell out of the DDs thinking I am easy prey at close range

[@dennisrobinson4274]

Sweet Jesus, just think if this guy played before secondaries got nerfed to hell. I miss melting destroyers when they were unlucky enough to get spotted by my Georgia within 12km. Not to mention if anyone is bad enough of a player to rush a secondary battleship they deserve to get blasted.

[@colvingazelle]

One thing for sure - Lutgens makes a BIG difference!

[@落弦-s8b]

We BB player may never understand a DD player,just like they never know the situations of us BB main as well.They think our secondaries are too powerful,but they never know that how unfair that their trops,concealment and smoke are to us when we are dealing with them.They may say that we can just dorge,but the same goes to them,they always doge our shot.What so unbalanced about that?

[@jackaubrey8614]

I play mainly DD's in EU server and mainly BB's on NA server so feel I can speak from both sides - if you, as a DD player, are being consistently hammered by secondary BB's then you are simply playing your DD wrong. Stop blaming the other guy for playing to his strengths and start playing your chosen ship type to its.....

[@落弦-s8b]

true enough

[@comradevlad7459]

Robert, I mean this in the nicest way possible, but this is a massive skill issue. Secondary builds and brawling as a whole are hard countered by two entire classes in this game. Outside of that DDs are the hardest targets for secondaries to hit, regardless of the ship. Not to mention you can simply outmanoeuvre most of these ships. Just don’t be so aggressive when facing them and you will see better results.

[@Cthulhuawake_]

Why are we feeding the trolls? Your content is great and has taught me a ton about this game in general, it also introduced me to BB secondary builds which I play rather poorly to this day. Because it ISN'T easy to play despite the implication that it is. That said, Mr Shaver here doesn't like them. Thats fine he doesn't have to. He also doesn't have to be a troll-about on your comments section then stomping his feet when he's provided a logical discussion about it and doesn't actually have the ability to defend his point of view. Mr Shaver, please stop being a troll so MB can go back to his normal content. Also "Nothing like picking your own jury".... dude.. what did you think he was going to do? Ask another channel to host is video? /sigh

[@Dik131WZD]

I don't think that something that people mostly enjoy in the game can ruin it.

[@austinlongshot3518]

Definitely not overpowered, But very powerful. He definitely has a point about secondary’s preventing pushes, that’s kinda there job. It’s like shotguns in shooters; They’re the best weapon for close range but get hard countered by distance.

[@papaversomniferum2365]

I love European DD's secondary built BB's and CA/CB's - never had a problem with engaiging GK or Schlieffen with my Halland - just torp, run and gun. Also I enjoy killing CL/DD's with my Schlieffen/GK or USN secondary built BBs (maybe with exception of Georgia, cause she is fast as f). I think that robertshaver has a problem, cause he is playing mostly DD's, so he is not familiar with secondary gun mechanics.

[@UndaRatedBB]

To paraphrase Yuro in his H Class video: "It takes a special kind of stupid to get killed by secondary guns". Especially in this long range HE spammy META.

[@mnamnam6061]

Lol, you really triggered me with that title😂😂 You're absolutely right with your video. Sec-Capabilities cost a lot in everything else. On German BB's you always suffer from bad maingun acuracy, to get your Sec in range you risk a lot. Without someone spotting for DD's you're very likely to get blown by torps or getting molten down be HE. If DD's get a bit too cocky, yeah they will suffer (if you don't have a Radar ship online near you), but if they play their game good, your whole sec batteries are just useless, not speaking of subs having a lot of fun with your big fat ship going in for closer range.

[@urseliusurgel4365]

While it might take skill to optimally know when and where to deploy a secondary-build ship, once it is deployed it is a skill free zone.

[@KingSaheb0079]

Haven't watched the video yet but if the title if this is real, I need to play the game now. Finally my German BBs can shine the way I want them to

[@CocoDave37]

I'm gonna type an answer anyway. I can't wait before the video ends!

[@mikehenthorn1778]

Robert may have had some point if he could have been polite about it. But since he can't I don't really care about his opinion he needs to learn to adult. Yes secondaries give you free damage but then again 24 show hits is about right for a battleship with a 30-second reload. If rng play less of a roll he might have a point

[@WeekendWarrior92]

Robert would hate meeting me in game back right after the release of open Beta, when I played secondary Yamato

[@TheLibr4rian]

Secondaries are DEFINITELY very BROKEN and I’m typing it not as a DD frustrated player but as a CA/CL & DD player. I’m not angry that secondaries kill me too often (I’ve learned to avoid certain ships on 11-12 km radius) it’s exp and points post battle make me frustrated. I manage to sunk 2-3 or 4 ships, I do decent DMG, I put some torps and/citadels + fires etc and I’ve survived… and who is always top of the list? German BB who shot and missed several salvos but simply sailing 12km from an enemy got tons of fires and sunks. No skill there, no effort, just sit, wait and sometimes angle right. It’s not how an IX-XI game style should look like.

[@Tai1g]

Would you recommend IFHE on the Massa?

[@rossrowley]

I'm fine with nerfing secondaries a little IF German BB players get better sigma on tier 7 to 10 BBs. Mainly because the meta right now doesn't allow most german BB's to get in close enouight to brawl unless they're really fortunate or able to sneak up to an emey ship...

[@faynk.6247]

Robert sounded like a potato that push into a Schlieffen secondary range, wonder why he lost all his health and concluded that secondary BB is OP.

[@goantasebastian2584]

As a secondary build enjoyer, I can confidently say they are not OP. They are very good, if you can get in range, which is easier with Germans, because of the 12.5km secondary range, but you sacrifice main gun performance. Secondaries are really good if you get in range, but since pretty much everyone stays as far as possible, they ain't OP.

[@jackaubrey8614]

With a flag (and giving up LOTS of other good things instead) I get the secondaries on a Republique out to 12 km - that can be fun when people don't expect it..... :)

[@gerrit9519]

Hogwash. IF, and that's a BIG IF, you can get your BB into brawling range, they do good damage. But getting the BB there is nigh impossible, due to HE spamming, CVs and, expecially, subs. Imo brawlers are made redundant. Even the German BBs are better off with a range-build. The argument that secondary BBs don't get main battery hits is logical, when you have the worst sigma in game AND don't slot accurracy mods. That says everything about module-assistance and nothing about the player's skill. RNG is a biatch

[@fiokak1506]

Complaining about secondaries in a pan-europe DD is like complaining about how OP Shimakaze or Yueyang is while playing a Vermont.

[@jonathanbaron-crangle5093]

Like SLM, I'm probably more of a German BB main, with that focus on secondaries, but without IFHE. I'm certainly not a great player, I play for fun, I try to play for the win of course, if not, there's always another ship/battle. The DD operator, because he doesn't play German BBs, doesn't understand how many captain skill points & ship modules go into making something that's RNG would how they "should" adding in special captain if one has (he has the advantage of stealth & shouldn't be getting chewed up by KMS secondaries, if that's what his gripe is lol) 7-9 captain points, 3 modules. All that to put yourself (potentially) into harms' way to make use of said secondaries (espcially in the lower tiers, ie, Gneisenau) DD player also doesn't understand how both secondaries can be broken (even by torpedo hits) & how German BB torps are some of the most fragile in the game. PQ

[@mrdomhare]

Robert is not going to take this well. My heart goes out to his Meemaw who will have to listen to his ranting all week.

[@llamaeatataco]

Thumbs down AND middle finger up? This man has some flexible hands.

[@themysteriousguy3784]

To be fair, t2 Mikasa's dpm is 90% secondaries and we all know that thing can get funky games.

[@gamerskampf8203]

Why you guys always cry about all?, secondaries are not broken , are fine. Secondaries are a good defense against DDs and others ships. Secondaries are the main feature of german ships and i dont think they should be nerfed. Destroyers should be nerfed because they are invisible ships and that is not fair. Also the concept of CVs is not well done in game. Learn to deal with the main feature of the ships and dont be crying over everything just to make the game more noob friendly.

[@codydonalddson9023]

Secondary boats = High Risk High Reward. You subject yourself to being >12km from the enemy and being open to torps and heavy focus fire. Before complaining about something, play it! For the love of all gods minor and major, play that boat not once, not twice, but 100 times. Then you have a position to make an accurate assessment.

[@codydonalddson9023]

Fun fact! (This is a joke). Destroyers are broken. They can take a 20” shell from a 510mm gun and only take 1800 damage. Nerf DDs! We believe in equality. So make DDs equal to other boats and take full damage lol

[@mastervarian977]

Hey I’m kinda new to the game and have been struggling to learn how to play it and has made my experience not very enjoyable. Because I am new (but mostly because I don’t like trying new things) I have been using the New York. And I am having a hard time with just about everything. I was hoping you could tell me what the best way to play the New York is and how to do that

[@geramos109]

Would be nice to see more content from tier 7 and 8 ships instead of 9 and 10 all the time.

[@Jared_Cunanan]

No need for a secondary nerf because i have played a lot of T9 German BB and BC to acquire T10 and it's not that easy.

[@strykersgamingltd]

With the individual complaining about secondaries directly correlates to his DD play. He's probably one of those that complained back in the first year after WoWS launched when BB rudders were nerfed because BB players learned the WASD hack to stop sailing in straight lines. Either he needs to adjust his game play with the EU DDs or switch to a DD line that has more smoke that 420 Joe so he can spam HE and torps from the comfort of his smoke. I recommend the US line since their smoke has the longest lasting up time or Japanese DDs like the Kitakaze or Harugumo for super strong pew pew. Secondaries are a means to an end and no matter how much one like said individual bitches, moans, whinges, or rages secondaries aren't his problem. It's his charging into secondary range to pew pew and spam torps every 60 to 70 seconds from his EU DDs. 🤣😂😆

[@techytube7764]

this guy wants nothing to shoot at him basically

[@robbie9723]

I love this guy someone get this man a mic and a platform!

[@natsukirei2016]

id say it depends on the ship as well, every GK ive ever come across on my yammy or Duncan has simply been shreded by HE fire or easy cits, the secondaries arent an issue, but something like a schlieffen yeah that can be annoying

[@thewatcher4616]

Close range duels against a secondary ship when you are a main gun focused one are not that fun. Especially in the French BBs. But fighting one at long range is almost too easy

[@andrewblackmore3150]

OK, this is fairly easy to dispel. I have been playing since Closed Beta, I have just over 7000 battles played, 1832 of those in BB's. I have a 52% win rate, so I'm not a great player but I ain't terrible either. I do love a secondary build BB, I had the Tirpitz from day of release, Sharnhorst too and obviously as time went on I got all the usual suspects, GK, Pommern etc. I've played all through secondaries being far more powerful then they are now. So it's nice and easy to tell how many poor unfortunate innocent players I've massacred with my evil, broken secondary's cause every time I do, WG give me a shiny award, the Close Combat Expert. ONE HUNDRED AND THIRTY TWO...... Yep, in 7000 battles I have killed precisely 132 players with secondaries, and not all of those 132 would have been in BB's. Not exactly a genocide is it?

[@jimmymullen3016]

Light cruiser and dd player suggesting a middle ground. I enjoy an occasional secondary BB game and yes, it usually goes horribly wrong so I get that it isn't just slap W and watch the fireworks. Same time though, it is a bit much that the Germans especially take a decent BB with great utility and strap a light cruiser to each side. In both of my usual ship classes I'm much more worried about a secondary schlieffen than most other things - a minotaur is unlikely to yolo (at least for very long).

[@Fackeldackel]

And which "decent" BB would that be? The chunky one that is impossible to miss and has a superstructure the size of Manhattan or the one with no caliber, no health, no armor and gets the overmatch treatment of citadels through the nose which usually only cruisers enjoy? Oh wait, it has concealment. Good luck with subs and CVs everywhere. In short: Case dismissed, court rests.

[@lucamunafo1414]

I bet that guy plays Gato and Nakhimov religiously

[@wheezzl]

The 45 seconds is per lock on or how does it work?

[@sealordmountbatten]

45s to build up the accuracy, once you swap targets the accuracy goes down to 80% and builds back up. But if you don’t have them firing at a target, it degrades over time