The (Surprising) State of Jesus Research

[@jimmoore8951]

Sean, I appreciate you carrying on your father’s legacy and research. I read Evidence and More Than a Carpenter as a kid and again in Bible college. But all the knowledge in the world doesn’t compare to the personal experience and relationship with the Creator of the universe. For example, I heard your dad speak a few times at the Campus Crusade meetings at our house, but what I remember about him is when he came out to our front yard and warmed me up before a Little League game, giving my 11 year-old self some personal pitching and batting tips. That experiential relationship is more meaningful than anything else. So it is with my relationship with Jesus Christ… it’s inexplicable compared to all our apologetics. And by the way, I hit a triple to help win our game that day after your dad’s coaching. God bless.

[@glendarjolley3171]

So very true!!!❤

[@llkid6760]

I'm 75 years old. Evidence that Demands a verdict was one of the first books I read after my conversion. Wonderful book; it sits in my bookcase to this day.

[@voiceofreason162]

I met Josh in 1987. I've got original format copies of his works. They're up there with 4 other key apologetics built around the Master Builder Series.

[@velkyn1]

and unsurprisingly, it is full of lies. McDowell's arguments fail since reports of what a cult believes doesn't mean the cult is true.

[@twitherspoon8954]

Fun fact: Jesus is a fictional character.

[@voiceofreason162]

@@twitherspoon8954 scary fact: no, he isn't. "But before I begin my pilgrimage, I need to probe an explosive question that lurks in the shadows of historical Jesus studies: might it be possible that Jesus Christ never even existed, that the whole stained glass story is pure invention? It’s an assertion that’s championed by some outspoken sceptics-but not, I discovered, by scholars, particularly archaeologists, whose work tends to bring flights of fancy down to literal earth." Eugenio Alliata, Archaeologist, National Geographic, 2017. And.... “I don’t know any mainstream scholar who doubts the historicity of Jesus,” said Eric Meyers, an archaeologist and emeritus professor in Judaic studies at Duke University. “The details have been debated for centuries, but no one who is serious doubts that he’s a historical figure.” Who needs Tacitus? Sceptics with no historical background or archaeological credentials continue to perpetuate the myth there was no historical Jesus. The archaeologists in the field and historical input amongst scholars are united in the view there was. And even without the Gospel writers, building a case for an historical Jesus is child's play. As follows: From extra-biblical sources alone, Jesus had a brother called James (Josephus), and was located in Palestine (Tacitus, Lucian, Acts of Pilate). Jesus was known to be a wise, virtuous and ethical man (Josephus, Mara Serapion) who was reported to have both performed miracles (Acts of Pilate) and made prophecies that were fulfilled (Phlegon, cf. Josephus). A result of his ministry was that he had many disciples, from both the Jews and the Gentiles (Josephus, Talmud). At the beginning of his ministry he encountered a man called John the Baptist of whom baptized him (Josephus). Jesus was worshiped as a deity (Pliny, Lucian), and some believed he was the Messiah (Josephus) and called him “king” (Mara Serapion). Some people saw Jesus as a philosopher with unique teachings (Lucian, Mara Serapion, Gospel of Thomas). The Jewish leaders judged Jesus as guilty of apostasy (Talmud, cf. Apocryphon of John), and no-one came forward to support Jesus in his trial (Talmud). He died at the hands of Pontius Pilate (Tacitus) who crucified him (Josephus, Talmud, Lucian, Gospel of Truth, Acts of Pilate). The event occurred on Passover Eve (Talmud), he was nailed to a cross (Phlegon, Gospel of Truth, Acts of Pilate, cf. Tacitus), and after his death the executioners gambled over his clothing (Acts of Pilate). There was a three-hour darkness at the moment of the crucifixion (Thallus, Phlegon), and an earthquake (Phlegon), all of which corroborates New Testament events. Jesus’ teachings spread after his death (Tacitus, cf. Suetonius, Pliny), the Christian religion was named after Jesus (Tacitus), Christians formed a section of society (Pliny), and exercised faith in Jesus’ teachings (Lucian). Christians also believed in their own eternal immortality and scorned death (Lucian), and that Jesus’ death procured their salvation (Gospel of Truth). The disciples never abandoned Jesus’ teachings even in persecution (Josephus), and many Christians were exiled from Rome for their beliefs in him (Suetonius). Many were also still present in Rome by the fall of Jerusalem in 70 AD (Tacitus, Suetonius). They were also described as law breakers for meeting in secret, and were blamed for drinking blood, and burning their children (Pliny, cf. Trajan, Hadrian). According to Habermas a few of the forged Gnostic sources are also corroborative of the New Testament literature. They relate that on one occasion that Jesus asked his disciples who they thought he was (Gospel of Thomas), that Jesus was flesh and blood (Gospel of Truth, Treatise on Resurrection), and that he had the title “Son of Man” (Gospel of Thomas). Jesus was also said to be the “Son of God” (Treatise on Resurrection, Gospel of Truth, Gospel of Thomas). And there is a forensics trail verified in multiple peer reviewed scientific journals, as well as I can reference over 150 published peer reviewed articles. So the statement that there is no evidence is patently false. And makes little difference even if you strip Tacitus and Josephus out. In fact, there is more historical evidence for Jesus of Nazareth than there is for any of these sources that wrote about him. Yet not one of these in terms of their existence, what they said or believed, is in question. They're considered rock-solid foundational sources for 1st to 3rd century history. Real people expressing real eyewitness knowledge, and yet it's Jesus the sceptics claims doesn't exist in the face of an avalanche of sources, archaeology and contemporary writings that total 5,100 manuscripts, 50,000 portions, 137,000 referenced quotes of Jesus or those around him or both. And from the QUOTES alone, the entire New Testament could be reassembled, minus 11 verses. None of them impact or detract a single person or statement or doctrine. Those who make such claims have to sit on that mountain wearing sunglasses while lying through gritted teeth, "It can't be."

[@ashleymorrison3984]

it's not that the evidence isn't substantial, it's that there is motive to deny it at all points.

[@MyAccount-zp5fk]

Dr, McDowell, over 20 years ago a theology professor at the University of San Francisco told us that Jesus' existence was proven even to the skeptic because academia had the records of the Roman prison system and they clearly showed that Jesus Christ had been through the Roman penal system that is to say the Roman prison system. His name was Prof. Thometz and he was a graduate of the UC Berkeley school of theology. I can't believe what Jesus went through to defeat death for us. All worship and praise to Jesus Christ.

[@Bethkar45]

I bought and used your Dad's original two-volume version of Evidence that Demands a Verdict when I started reading for my Degree in Divinity at The Queen's University Belfast in 1976. It was invaluable to me when coming face to face with textual etc. criticism and liberalism in class. It was a real help and comfort to be able to use what was written and so well researched to offset the vitriol I was hearing and reading! So, thanks to your Dad for helping to keep me 'on the Way'! God bless, Wallace (Northern Ireland).

[@Iverath]

Are you aware that these books are not taken seriously outside Christian circles? Why do you think that is?

[@drlaurav]

Truly great summary of a number of really important apologetic points to make for having fruitful conversations with skeptics AND Christians! Too many Christians are ignorant of the importance of Apologetics.

[@jonkauffman9769]

Thank you Sean, Tell your Dad thanks. After reading Bertrand Russell, I was becoming a skeptic in the early 1980s. Your Dad's book, "The Resurrection Factor" brought me back to reality.

[@SeanMcDowell]

Amazing, yes I’ll tell him!

[@twitherspoon8954]

Jesus is a fictional character.

[@johntessier8064]

@@twitherspoon8954Lord help you.

[@ctt82]

​@@twitherspoon8954repent, there is still time

[@voiceofreason162]

​@@ctt82He's already rejected the evidence. He's already dead. That's his lead line. Then challenges every tiny facet as inadmissible. He's seen the archaeology reports, historical reports and STILL says the same. He even LISTED all the evidence he rejects. He wants to die. And pretty determined about it. Let him.

[@Zanna55158]

Greatest man who ever walked on earth, had no servants, yet they called him Master. Had no degree, yet they called him Teacher. Had no medicines, yet they called him Healer. He had no army, yet rulers feared him. He claimed no territory, yet they called him King. He won no military battles, yet he conquered the world. He defeated all his enemies, yet he never harmend anyone. He committed no crime, yet they crucified him. He was buried in a tomb, yet he lives today🙏🏻. His name is Jesus.❤

[@edcroteau3237]

Love listening to Dr. Sean!

[@SeanMcDowell]

Thanks Ed. Glad you enjoy it!

[@HarryNicNicholas]

don't forget to buy a book, that's the whole purpose of religions these days. "new christians"

[@TheG7thcapo]

@@HarryNicNicholas even atheism and any other groups of ideology or belief writes books. Many people don’t even have to write books. They just post a video a video “ 200th day of being a woman” and earn millions

[@MgtowRubicon]

"Religion is a culture of faith; science is a culture of doubt. I would rather have questions that can't be answered than answers that can't be questioned." -- Richard Feynman

[@andrewmeneely9774]

SHITTY DEFINITION ....TOO BOTH... NOT EVEN CLOSE TOO WHAT SCIENCE IS. ITS ABOUT REASONABLE INFERENCE TOO THE INFORMATION DISCOVERY AND HYPOTHESIS THAT LEAD TOO THEORY ....AND THEORY THAT LEADS TOO FACTS .

[@andrewmeneely9774]

Faith means we have GOOD COMPELLING EVIDENCE FOR WHAT WE BELIEVE IN..... NOT JUST SILLY BS ... LEFT HAS REDEFINE D THE DEFINITION

[@davidbell2547]

And here you are, questioning without being silenced

[@twitherspoon8954]

@@andrewmeneely9774 _"...we have GOOD COMPELLING EVIDENCE FOR WHAT WE BELIEVE IN."_ So provide the single-best evidence you have that Jesus existed.

[@burntgod7165]

​@@andrewmeneely9774No you don't, you believe without evidence. That's what faith is. Muslims have faith too. According to your definition, they are right about their claims too. Provide this "compelling evidence."

[@JoshKemmerer]

This is one of the best apologetic videos I’ve ever seen or heard. Thanks to you both and to Sean’s father for their kingdom work. Praise God!

[@martialartsfitness1]

I recently acquired this book. Love the succinct style that allows for quick review of the evidence. I have many other apologetics books and am always searching for well written and easy to follow texts. If you are truly interested in apologetics, this would be and excellent starting place. After reading this book, then progress to other books. I actually carry this in my back pocket so I can read it when I have spare time. Great design so that one can carry with to learn from. Love this KZbin channel. I listen to this channel daily and nightly before bed.

[@Hiker_45]

🎉❤thx in advance for taking the time to makes these videos!

[@SeanMcDowell]

Thanks, I hope you enjoy it. I really enjoy having these convos and am glad you find them helpful.

[@ericpeterson8732]

I'm 50 and More than a Carpenter was a great help in my teen years. It's nice to see you following in your father's footsteps. God bless you.

[@littlemisslrobz]

Sean: you dad is the reason my mom is a believer, and she led me to faith. He’s like my spiritual grandfather!

[@marilynnoosterhof1853]

Thank you Sean... God bless you and your dad. So happy that I can point to you as another McDowell clan member and likely relative.

[@kirstenharteis3613]

As I go along, so many of the people I converse with don't put veracity on the bible, or even on the gospels. So I usually start by sharing some of the extrabibilical evidence, and then I back into that evidence with the gospel. People hear me a little more when I utilize that method to open the idea that Jesus was Messiah.

[@HarryNicNicholas]

what evidence, in 3000 years of folks pretending their religion is true not one, NOT ONE has demonstrated it to be true, if i were you i'd either keep my sillyness to myself, or i'd admit god is imaginary.

[@blusheep2]

@@HarryNicNicholas Harry, do you not know the difference between evidence and proof? You are saying that no one has demonstrated it to be true which speaks to proof while kirsten speaks of evidence. The problem with your logic, which is quite bad, is that you think that the absence of proof means that something is silly. This is really sad reasoning. Think about it. You haven't demonstrated that the universe can exist without a God, and you can't either therefore your beliefs are silly. You should admit that we are nothing more then an illusion that doesn't really exist. So people that really care about knowing the truth examine the evidence. The evidence for God. The evidence for the Bible, if they are Christian. The evidence that exists, and it does exist, will compel some and not compel others. That is probably more related to ones desired outcome, the biases one starts with, or simply that you don't want to have to stop sleeping with your girlfriend. So, Harry, evidence is what matters. If there is no evidence then call us silly if you wish. If you disagree that the evidence is good enough to compel you to believe then at least show us the respect, if your not a douche bag, to recognize there are honest reasons for why we do feel compelled to believe. And if you think God is just imaginary then by all means demonstrate that truth to us as you have expected for us to demonstrate God is real, to you. Demonstrate the universe doesn't need God. I guarantee you, my demonstration will be stronger then yours.

[@biddiemutter3481]

​@@HarryNicNicholaswhat sort of evidence would you accept, I wonder?

[@Iverath]

What is extrabiblical evidence that: * Jesus is god. * God created the world. * Jesus said the things reported in the bible? If you plan on sharing the gospel with atheists, what's the reason to believe in the parts of the gospel that you believe in are true?

[@davidbell2547]

​@@HarryNicNicholasactually God CANNOT be imaginery. That does not fit the definition or description of God. People only say this out of pure ignorance. It's a bit like saying "toffee apples can only be made from something other than toffee and apples". That would cease to be a toffee apple. If God was imaginery, He wouldn't be able to create everything. Think about it. What real things can imaginery things create? Nothing. So God cannot be imaginery. An imaginery god is not an all powerful creator God.

[@FollowScripture]

Thank you Sean , your book is ordered ..God Bless

[@SeanMcDowell]

Awesome, enjoy and let us know what you think!

[@brobrianhbsurfer5178]

Thank you both

[@Ruby-wise]

Brilliant! Thank you for this excellent presentation. 😊

[@SeanMcDowell]

So glad you enjoyed it!

[@HarryNicNicholas]

@@SeanMcDowell i seem to recall you did a role play as an atheist some time ago, and i'm pretty sure you said "there were 33 people called jesus in the historical record" am i right or did i miss something? and cut the demon possession crap ffs, it's disgusting, leave mental health to the professionals.

[@garyl3819]

Sean came to Broken Arrow Oklahoma to Arrow Heights Baptist Church a couple of years ago to speak and teach apologetics! (label not important…..bunch of Christians who sin regularly) Big fan of Sean’s apologetics now! Thanks Sean! You inspire us and help us with our Christian Walk! I enjoy your KZbin videos! God bless you and keep your ministry and influence alive brother! Your family impacts Christians on a continual basis!

[@SeanMcDowell]

Good hearing from you, I remember visiting there!

[@HarryNicNicholas]

you do realise that jesus wrote nothing right? and you do realise nothing was written about him until ten years after he was dead? and that christianity is based on one bloke having a hallucination he saw a dead bloke he NEVER MET? no one has a clue what jesus said, did or thought.

[@reuben.l.murray]

Thank you for this episode. May God bless you both🙌🏻

[@johnpapworth4093]

What seems harder to square is that if this is a golden age of apologetic then why is the percentage of people identifying as Christian going down while those either identifying as atheists or no religion is going up

[@SeanMcDowell]

That’s a great question. Two things: 1. Church still doesn’t teach it well, 2. Many people leave for non intellectual reasons.

[@johnpapworth4093]

I’m not sure how convincing the first is in the age of wide access to the internet and the millions of sales of apologetic books. The second I think actually points a problem for religion, many believers come to the religion for non-intellectual reasons and so I’m not sure intellectual reason will impact them when they then come to doubt. Anyway thanks for the reply

[@andrewmeneely9774]

MORAL DECLINE.... IF THERE IS NO GOD.....THEN ALL IS PERMISSABLE ! AND CHRISTIANITY WITHOUT BEING A DISCIPLE HAS BEEN THE WATERED DOWN GOSPEL LIE 🤥 ALL DISCIPLES OF JESUS are CHRISTIANS..... BUT APPARENTLY PEOPLE THINK THEY CAN BE CHRISTIANS AND NOT BE DISCIPLES ! Puzzles me 😂. 😂 crazy 🤪

[@lizadowning4389]

@@SeanMcDowell Why should a church (institution) "teach" that which is considered to be a spiritual belief? That is proselytising. And then the elephant ... the population of believers (across many religions) isn't dwindeling because they leave as such, but mostly due to the fact that less and less new generations are not concerned with religions (we don't do gods). Those that once believed and now have left do so because they use their intellect, the faculty of reasoning. I find your "many people leave for non intellectual reasons" quite demeaning and opinionated.

[@davidjanbaz7728]

@@lizadowning4389 I find your post just as intellectually ignorant of the public school indoctrination programs that have been created from the 1960's in the US. And their presuppositions of materialism as the only rational beliefs of the Universe.

[@user-jz7sj2cg1s]

I have a "ready defence Book by Josh McDowell and I love it.

[@nancysanchez1518]

Jesus said to love one another as HE loved us, by going to the cross. They older I get my heart is filled with love for those around me and those who aren't, and I know it's Jesus.. By the why I am 84

[@adamguy33]

It is true for me also, the older I get the more love seems to come into my heart , obcourse I do pray for the Lord to soften my heart and show me the Love that I want to have for others . I fail alot, but i can say that I am more loving today then i was yesterday. Its definitely JESUS that makes me want to love more. I'm 42 and if i make it to your age i hope by then I will be flowing with love

[@samuelholm316]

That feeling when you're the 777th person to like a video about Christianity. 😁😇

[@SeanMcDowell]

Thanks for being that guy 😀

[@tonussi]

It's the second time I had to click subscription button, I subscribed to this channel many times and apparently I am being unsubscribed without my authorization. I am subscribing again, I hope KZbin don't unsubscribe me!

[@midimusicforever]

The Jesus of Faith is the Jesus of History!

[@jeffreyerwin3665]

I do not see in the transcript where the Shroud of Turin is mentioned. How can any serious conversation about the "State of Jesus Research" fail to discuss that relic?

[@PastorAddison]

Amen!

[@tramainebass3371]

Grace to you and peace, family! I would love to see some content on the defense of the faith against the Baha’i faith system.

[@bobs4429]

I accept the assertion that the Bible is an "... accurate historical record". But what does that mean, exactly? Historians are quick to point out that historical evidence is at most a best guess about what might have happened. In other words, an historical record is never conclusive, and so the Bible as an historical record is not itself conclusive. Can we say for certain that Jesus rose from the dead? No, not based on the Bible. Instead, one accepts Christ's sacrifice based on a relationship with Him. Does the fact that a believer believes in the resurrection based not on the Bible but on a relationship mean that those that don't believe are mistaken. No, far from it. Relationships are personal and individualistic. I'm honestly happy for those who have found such a relationship with Christ. My relationship is different.

[@brenthardaway3704]

A good follow-up episode would be "What effect is the golden age having?" among academics, students, and the local church. The answer certainly won't be "as much we'd like", but there do seem to be some bright spots here and there.

[@lonia.5283]

Jesus Christ is the Only One who resurrected!

[@SeanMcDowell]

AMEN!

[@lizadowning4389]

Nope, there ware literally dozens of "hero's" in ancient stories that were ascribed divine translation. E.g. Asclepius, Achilles, Memnon, etcetera. In Justin Martyr's First Apology: "when we say Jesus Christ, our teacher, was crucified and died, and rose again, and ascended into heaven, we propose nothing different from what you believe regarding those whom you consider sons of Zeus." (1 Apol. 21).

[@daleproctor3723]

You can't use circular reasoning to prove that the Gospels are true but we can squint our eyes and look at it a bit sideways and end up doing it anyways.

[@adamguy33]

JESUS existed as a real person that was executed by the Romans that really cant be denied by anyone that does just alittle bit of research. The real question is did He rise from the.dead. if a man really rises from the dead then maybe i might listen to that guy. The disciples clearly believed this, the apostle Paul is a great argument for the ressurection. Bart Erhman will atleast say yes the disciples definitely believed that. Jim wallace of cold-case Christianity believes the evidence points to a definite ressurection. Anyway most things come back to circular reasoning in some ways. But circular reasoning doesnt make something true or not. Something is just true regardless of the reasoning used to try and prove it

[@rayc5577]

Jesus did miracles thru the authority of GOD not of his own. Jesus is the Son of God. He told us many many times

[@residuejunkie4321]

Amen 😇 *What Jesus and His Father have spoken will never change, their promises are still good and our prayers are still answered! Hallelujah!!! But as impossible as this sounds, like so many of the true stories in scripture, our bibles have all been supernaturally changed by Satan in the last several years, right in our homes, in the fulfillment of prophecy. It's being done to prepare for the reign of the antichrist. All languages and all translations have been changed along with concordances, encyclopedias, dictionaries, history books, all of the ancient Hebrew, Greek, Latin and Aramaic manuscripts. Even the Dead Sea Scrolls have been changed!* *I'm 70, was saved when I was 10, and have read only the exact same copy of the King James bible my church gave me in 1961. (This does not mean I was a King James onlyist, but I'm glad I never read other ones or I might not have noticed the changes as soon.) I had memorized many scriptures from it through the years, then in 2014 I started seeing changes in it that I couldn't explain. I have an exceptional memory and can draw a detailed picture of my baby stroller. I had never owned a computer or heard of the Mandela Effect back then. But after being given my first computer in 2016, I finally found out why I had been noticing all of the oddities that I couldn't explain. Then I started diligently studying what should actually be called the Daniel 7:25 effect. That's where God said He would give the antichrist the power to do this. (Change times and laws) We're seeing many end times prophecies being fulfilled SUPERNATURALLY! This is some of the "lying signs and wonders" God told us He would give the AC power to perform which would even deceive His very elect, if it were possible in 2nd Thessalonians chapter two!* *God said in the end of days, (NOW!) that He would send us a famine for hearing His words in Amos **8:11** and that He would give the antichrist the ability to do this in Daniel 7:25. In Daniel 12:4 & 12:9 He told him to seal his book until the end days. He told John **_not_** to seal his book because the end time is at hand in Revelation 22:10. One of the Greek definitions of seal in Strongs concordance is “to protect from Satan”. He also told us to “write His words in our hearts”, which meant memorize, if not word for word at least the essence of what was written, because He knew this was going to happen.* *God commanded us to "prove all things", and people **_better_** obey Him, especially on this subject. I urge you to research this. There are many brothers and sisters making videos about the changes with more proof of what was originally written and I have lots more about this in my playlist 👉 which can be found by typing in (PROOF OF BIBLE CHANGE RESIDUE JUNKIE)* 👈 *I've continued to study scripture by learning what Satan has been changing. Soon Amos **8:12** will be fulfilled too, and the only way it can happen is by not being able to see these videos that document what used to be written in our bibles.* *_May God bless all who read this with eyes to see this incredible faith strengthener, and how close we are to our Saviour's return!!!!_* *P.S. Everyone is going to learn about this one way or the other. I'm just trying to save people from hearing Jesus explain it to them at the Gate.* 🙏✝️💪

[@davidjanbaz7728]

Now you're back to that cut and paste post of ignorance : your one trick pony isn't rideable!

[@hwd7]

When I first got saved, next to the King James Bible, everyone urged me to buy Evidence That Demands a Verdict. Great investment. And it's great that, Dr Sean, you are continuing the legacy. God bless you , love from Australia.

[@jakegreen5081]

And did they urge you to buy countering books? Or did they just want you to get a one sided view?

[@hwd7]

@@jakegreen5081 thanks for your question, @jakegreen5081 Many apologetic books have often cited objections by skeptics which I also encountered at work and online. I grew up in a non religious home, and went to a secular school where I was taught evolution was fact, my favourite shows were Carl Sagan and Richard Attenborough. I never heard of the YEC arguments against evolution until I got saved at the age of 26. The first debate I watched was Atheism Vs Christianity with Frank Zindler Vs WLC, which I bought on VHS pre internet days. Im sure Frank Zindler gave his best arguments in that debate, and WLC still reads from the same script as back then but no atheist has countered his points for the existence of God. I have since read many books and listened to thousands of hours of debates yet by the grace of God, my faith has withstood such attacks. I have listened to Duane Gish Vs Ian Plimer, Carl Weiland Vs Paul Willis. More recently Matt Dillahunty Vs Eric Hernandez and AronRa Vs Michael Jones, and Dave Farina Vs James Tour. If you have any arguments as to why Christianity is false and some other belief is true , Id be glad to read it, as I dont want to believe something if it is false.

[@jakegreen5081]

@@hwd7 "WLC still reads from the same script as back then but no atheist has countered his points for the existence of God" Then I suggest you watch Sean Carroll. "My faith has withstood such attacks" Why do you only have faith if you have evidence? "If you have any arguments as to why Christianity is false" Reality itself shows it is. Women conceive through the involvement of physical males/physical sperm. Do you have any contrary evidence?

[@HarryNicNicholas]

@@hwd7 i read as far as "no atheist" cos sean carroll wiped the floor with WLC and provided the equations to back it up. you ought to know that WLC is a laughing stock, he has made himself a laughing stock by stating on video "i wanted god to love me so much even if it's a one in a million chance it's true this was what i wanted" lane craig doesn't CARE about intellectual reasons for believing, right there on record, like ALL religists of all religions he NEEDS comfort. the apologists on your side are dishonest, if you call me "new atheist" i call these guys "new christian" all they are interested in is atheist bashing, likes and subs and patrons and book sales.ALL of them lie to make their case. you need to revisit your sources cos to my mind NONE of the things you quote demonstrated god is real. all of them explain the universe without the need for spooks.

[@HarryNicNicholas]

@@hwd7 when it comes to adam and eve, why didn't god make eve smarter than a snake? why did god not put a fence around the tree? your religion is silly, and that's me being polite.

[@ristopherobbins]

He doesn’t ever say for certain the kinds of assumptions we can make. “Let me think about it” “I’ll have to think about that some more” the answer was no we can’t haha.

[@jawneethecurious]

This is very, very right on! Great job guys!

[@laurentackett9399]

Dr. Mcdowell im at a crossroads in my faith. Have you and Bart Erhman ever sat down together? wheather i end up athiest or still believing i wish u much love and peace.

[@adamguy33]

I dont think bart erhman ever was truly born again, He had a knowledge of Christ , but truly never believed in his heart so I dont think he walked away from something he never had in the first place. And just because we dont have the originals doesnt mean the Lord didnt preserve His word. Blessed are those who believe who haven't seen.

[@hambam7533]

also more than a carpenter was a very good simple easy to read book and i have given it away to people who were searching

[@hirakumarshrestha2990]

What is the birth date of Jesus ?

[@ready1fire1aim1]

Theology comes from combining two Greek words: theos, meaning God, and logos, meaning word or rational thought. [The Word is Elohim from Genesis 1] (not to be confused with Yahweh Elohim from Genesis 2) Compare John 1: 1-5 with Genesis 1: 1-5: John 1: 1-5 Names of God Bible The Word Becomes Human 1 In the beginning the Word already existed. The Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was already with God in the beginning. 3 Everything came into existence through him. Not one thing that exists was made without him. 4 He was the source of life, and that life was the light for humanity. 5 The light shines in the dark, and the dark has never extinguished it. Genesis 1: 1-5 Names of God Bible The Creation 1 In the beginning Elohim created heaven and earth. 2 The earth was formless and empty, and darkness covered the deep water. The Ruach Elohim was hovering over the water. 3 Then Elohim said, “Let there be light!” So there was light. 4 Elohim saw the light was good. So Elohim separated the light from the darkness. 5 Elohim named the light day, and the darkness he named night. There was evening, then morning-the first day.

[@ready1fire1aim1]

Note how in verse 3 the Ruach Elohim (Spirit of God) says there's a true Elohim (God). Which means there's a false Elohim (God). Spoiler Alert: The false Elohim (God) is Yahweh Elohim (LORD of God) from Genesis 2. 2 Chronicles 15: 1-7 Names of God Bible 15 The Ruach Elohim came to Azariah, son of Oded. 2 Azariah went to Asa and said to him, “Listen to me, Asa and all you men from Judah and Benjamin. Yahweh is with you when you are with him. If you will dedicate your lives to serving him, he will accept you. But if you abandon him, he will abandon you. 3 For a long time Israel was without the true Elohim, without a priest who taught correctly, and without Moses’ Teachings. 4 But when they were in trouble, they turned to Yahweh Elohim of Israel. When they searched for him, he let them find him. 5 At those times no one could come and go in peace, because everyone living in the land had a lot of turmoil. 6 One nation crushed another nation; one city crushed another. Elohim had tormented them with every kind of trouble. 7 But you must remain strong and not become discouraged. Your actions will be rewarded.”

[@ready1fire1aim1]

[Yahweh Elohim "LORD of God", adopted character from Genesis 2, accepts a child sacrifice]: (not to be confused with Elohim "God" or Ruach Elohim "Spirit of God" from Genesis 1) Judges 11 Names of God Bible Jephthah’s Vow 29 Then the Ruach Yahweh came over Jephthah. Jephthah went through Gilead, Manasseh, and Mizpah in Gilead to gather an army. From Mizpah in Gilead Jephthah went to attack Ammon. 30 Jephthah made a vow to Yahweh. He said, “If you will really hand Ammon over to me, 31 then whatever comes out of the doors of my house to meet me when I return safely from Ammon will belong to Yahweh. I will sacrifice it as a burnt offering.” 32 So Jephthah went to fight against Ammon. Yahweh handed the people of Ammon over to him. 33 He defeated them from Aroer to Minnith and on to Abel Keramim, 20 cities in all. It was a decisive defeat. So the Ammonites were crushed by the people of Israel. 34 When Jephthah went to his home in Mizpah, he saw his daughter coming out to meet him. She was dancing with tambourines in her hands. She was his only child. Jephthah had no other sons or daughters. 35 When he saw her, he tore his clothes in grief and said, “Oh no, Daughter! You’ve brought me to my knees! What disaster you’ve brought me! I made a foolish promise to Yahweh. Now I can’t break it.” 36 She said to him, “Father, you made a promise to Yahweh. Do to me whatever you promised since Yahweh has punished your enemy Ammon.” 37 Then she said to her father, “Do me a favor. Give me two months for my friends and me to walk in the mountains and mourn that I will never have an opportunity to get married.” 38 “Go!” he said, and he sent her off for two months. She and her friends went to the mountains, and she cried about never being able to get married. 39 At the end of those two months she came back to her father. He did to her what he had vowed, and she never had a husband. So the custom began in Israel 40 that for four days every year the girls in Israel would go out to sing the praises of the daughter of Jephthah, the man from Gilead.

[@ready1fire1aim1]

The anger of the Yahweh = Satan Compare these two verses: 2 Samuel 24: 1 Again the anger of the Yahweh burned against Israel, and he incited David against them, saying, “Go and take a census of Israel and Judah.” and: 1 Chronicles 21:1 Satan rose up against Israel and incited David to take a census of Israel. 🤔 19 Bible results for “Yahweh's anger” from Names of God Bible: Numbers 25:4 Yahweh said to Moses, “Take all the leaders of the people, and execute them in broad daylight in Yahweh’s presence. This will turn Yahweh’s anger away from Israel.” Deuteronomy 9:19 I was terrified of Yahweh’s anger and fury. He was so angry he wanted to destroy you. But once more Yahweh listened to me. Deuteronomy 29:20 Yahweh will never be willing to forgive that person, because Yahweh’s burning anger will smolder against him. All the curses described in this book will happen to him. Yahweh will erase every memory of that person’s name from the earth. 2 Kings 22:13 “On behalf of the people, all of Judah, and me, ask Yahweh about the words in this book that has been found. Yahweh’s fierce anger is directed towards us because our ancestors did not obey the things in this book or do everything written in it.” 2 Chronicles 19:2 Jehu, son of the seer Hanani, asked King Jehoshaphat, “Why do you help wicked people and love those who hate Yahweh? Yahweh’s anger is directed toward you because you have done this. 2 Chronicles 34:21 “On behalf of those who are left in Israel and Judah and me, ask Yahweh about the words in this book that was found. Yahweh’s fierce anger has been poured on us because our ancestors did not obey the word of Yahweh by doing everything written in this book.” Isaiah 51:17 Wake Up, Jerusalem Wake up! Wake up! Stand up, Jerusalem! You drank from the cup in Yahweh’s hand. That cup was filled with his anger. You drank from the bowl, the cup that makes people stagger, and you drained it! Jeremiah 4:8 So put on sackcloth, mourn, and cry because Yahweh’s burning anger hasn’t turned away from us. Jeremiah 25:37 The peaceful pastures are destroyed by Yahweh’s burning anger. Jeremiah 30:24 Yahweh’s burning anger will not turn back until he has done everything he intends to do. In the last days you will understand this clearly. Jeremiah 36:7 Maybe their prayers will come into Yahweh’s presence, and they will turn from their evil ways. Yahweh has threatened these people with his terrifying anger and fury.” Jeremiah 50:13 No one will live in Babylon because of Yahweh’s anger. It will be completely abandoned. Everyone who passes by Babylon will be horrified and hiss at all its wounds. Lamentations 2:22 You have invited those who terrorize me on every side, as though they were invited to a festival. No one escaped or survived on the day of Yahweh’s anger. My enemy has murdered the children I nursed and raised.” Lamentations 3:66 Pursue them in anger, and wipe them out from under Yahweh’s heaven.” Lamentations 4:11 Yahweh’s fury has accomplished his purpose. He unleashed his burning anger. He started a fire in Zion that even burned its foundations. Ezekiel 7:19 They will throw their silver and gold into the streets like garbage. Their silver and gold won’t be able to rescue them on the day of Yahweh’s anger. It will no longer satisfy their hunger or fill their stomachs. Their silver and gold caused them to fall into sin. Zephaniah 1:18 Their silver and their gold will not be able to rescue them on the day of Yahweh’s overflowing fury. The whole earth will be consumed by his fiery anger, because he will put an end, a frightening end, to those who live on earth. Zephaniah 2:2 before the decree is carried out and the day passes like windblown husks, before Yahweh’s burning anger comes to you, before the day of Yahweh’s anger comes to you. Zephaniah 2:3 Search for Yahweh, all you humble people in the land who carry out his justice. Search for what is right. Search for humility. Maybe you will find shelter on the day of Yahweh’s anger.

[@ready1fire1aim1]

Yahweh’s breath: 2 Samuel 22 Names of God Bible 16 Then the ocean floor could be seen. The foundations of the earth were laid bare at Yahweh’s stern warning, at the blast of the breath from his nostrils. Isaiah 30 Names of God Bible 33 Topheth was prepared long ago. It was made ready for the king. It was made deep and wide and piled high with plenty of burning logs. Yahweh’s breath will be like a flood of burning sulfur, setting it on fire. Isaiah 40 Names of God Bible 7 Grass dries up, and flowers wither when Yahweh’s breath blows on them. Yes, people are like grass.

[@ready1fire1aim1]

Dispute Over Whose Children Jesus’ Opponents Are 31 To the Jews who had believed him, Jesus said, “If you hold to my teaching, you are really my disciples. 32 Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.” 33 They answered him, “We are Abraham’s descendants and have never been slaves of anyone. How can you say that we shall be set free?” 34 Jesus replied, “Very truly I tell you, everyone who sins is a slave to sin. 35 Now a slave has no permanent place in the family, but a son belongs to it forever. 36 So if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed. 37 I know that you are Abraham’s descendants. Yet you are looking for a way to kill me, because you have no room for my word. 38 I am telling you what I have seen in the Father’s presence, and you are doing what you have heard from your father.” 39 “Abraham is our father,” they answered. “If you were Abraham’s children,” said Jesus, “then you would do what Abraham did. 40 As it is, you are looking for a way to kill me, a man who has told you the truth that I heard from God. Abraham did not do such things. 41 You are doing the works of your own father.” “We are not illegitimate children,” they protested. “The only Father we have is God himself.” 42 Jesus said to them, “If God were your Father, you would love me, for I have come here from God. I have not come on my own; God sent me. 43 Why is my language not clear to you? Because you are unable to hear what I say. 44 You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father’s desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies. 45 Yet because I tell the truth, you do not believe me! 46 Can any of you prove me guilty of sin? If I am telling the truth, why don’t you believe me? 47 Whoever belongs to God hears what God says. The reason you do not hear is that you do not belong to God.”

[@Ejaezy]

All of these books would not be necessary if god relied on the proven mechanisms of proving god in the bible. Anytime someone believed in god, it was because of miracles. I am convinced that if Christians could perform miracles in the name of god (just like prophets did in the Old Testament and and the apostles and disciples did in the New Testament) that many more peiple would believe that god exists...

[@blusheep2]

The main reason for the growth of Christianity in unreached areas is through the miraculous.

[@howardcalpas2322]

The missionaries who went throughout the world did miracles from God and that's why people converted to Christ ❤️🙏 Otherwise without proof nobody would change their beliefs. Peace a

[@Ejaezy]

@@blusheep2 What about the growth of Christianity in reached areas?

[@Ejaezy]

@@howardcalpas2322 Why can't we see that now in the U.S.?

[@blusheep2]

@@Ejaezy Who says we don't. I've seen miracles. From what I read in the Bible and in history, God uses the miraculous primarily as a tool to establish the church. America is not only established but it thrives and people that thrive don't feel desparate for God, so they generally think of God as a vending machine.... They spend no time getting to know him but when their life falls apart they expect God to do something for them and if He doesn't they get mad at Him. Some even go as far as becoming atheists when all along the problem wasn't with God but the fact that they thought God's has an obligation to do what we want. So, no wonder you see less of the miraculous here then in desperate 3rd world countries, that first don't doubt the supernatural, and second realize what it really means if God was to move on their behalf.

[@BornToPun7541]

Jesus, being the Logos, or Word, inspired the Old Testament as well.

[@HarryNicNicholas]

you do realise that jesus wrote nothing right? and you do realise nothing was written about him until ten years after he was dead? and that christianity is based on one bloke having a hallucination he saw a dead bloke he NEVER MET? no one has a clue what jesus said, did or thought.

[@Iverath]

Christianity is just a step on the way to the true religion: Mormonism.

[@chancylvania]

1:58 me who’s reading the whole big book right now 👀

[@SeanMcDowell]

You go!

[@edcroteau3237]

Of course modern apologists owe their ministry today to the work of Josh McDowell. I find it interesting to see modern apologists talking about the reliability of the New Testament in terms of its textual INTEGRITY and its textual RELIABILITY, which they then explain as manuscript evidence and then internal/external evidence. That is right out of "Evidence that Demands a Verdict"

[@HarryNicNicholas]

how much of the bible do you have to learn to get into heaven? how many of seans books do you have to buy?

[@biddiemutter3481]

​@@HarryNicNicholasnone actually! Belief that Jesus died for our sins and conquered death by resurrection and giving our lives to him in gratitude works though 😊

[@HarryNicNicholas]

@@biddiemutter3481 so if i convince myself christ died for my sins (what does that even mean?) i can get into heaven? and you know what to expect of heaven right? you know it's real so you know the layout, yes? ps i don't get why people think hell will be bad. i'm not a satanist, but if i'm a sinner me and satan are at least on the same side, sure he would torment christians, they're really annoying, but he has no reason to torment me, i'm doing satans thing. tell me why satan would torment sinners. no, i think hell will be a fun palace, a reward for the sinners who screwed up god's plan, disneyworld for the "nice" sins and the playboy mansion for us perverts.

[@BlakeSmith-eg3yq]

⁠​⁠​⁠@@HarryNicNicholasSatan doesn’t own hell. Neither is he going to torture people. I don’t know where that myth came from but it’s not Biblical. Hell is a place God made to punish the wicked, including Satan. You’re not gonna make buddies there, you’re just going to be suffering for eternity. Hell is a horrible place.

[@clarekuehn4372]

Shroud of Turin.

[@JonClash]

Great video

[@dertechl6628]

I always ask myself: If the authors of these ancient sources came to me *today* and told me personally, would I believe them? Would I change my life for that? I turns out: No, a handful of guys can't convince me of any bizarre claims. I have to experience it for myself.

[@chaynaemslie3957]

It is more than that. If they were all lying, they wouldn’t die for the lie. If they were all confused, how could they all be confused but all completely agree. If the only proof was 12 dudes giving you an eye witness account, then I can see that, but it goes far deeper than that with more evidence for the death of Jesus and his body’s disappearance than every single historical event that has ever occurred. That’s a big statement, but it is absolutely verifiable. A former atheist named Lee Strobel went to prove this (wrong actually as his wife became a Christian and changed and he was a firm atheist). He compiles this all in a book called “A Case for Christ” it isn’t at all like a textbook. Hope you get all your questions answered. Never stop asking questions. God gave you an inquisitive and skeptical mind. Ask the tough questions, God can take it!

[@TheNummatus]

I've also started with "Evidence..." and the rest of standard pack, like Schaeffer or Lewis. Reflection after 35 years from that is that they produced their own identity, fullfilled some sense of significance. Congratulations. From my point of view it is lost life, depression and looking for unexistent realities. No amount of good apologetics of resurrection will produce ontological miracle of Resurrection.

[@paulhaynes3688]

Need to debate with Dillahunty why not

[@JessicaSunlight]

The only evidence you need is direct experience of Jesus.

[@MgtowRubicon]

"Live a good life. If there are gods and they are just, then they will not care how devout you have been, but will welcome you based on the virtues you have lived by. If there are gods and they are unjust, then you should not want to worship them. If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones." -- Marcus Aurelius

[@emilybrereton702]

This is an interesting idea. The question becomes how do we define what “live a good life” means. To follow this advice you have to then seek what defines good. Many times people seeking that will land on the wisdom found in the Bible. These are good questions to ask.

[@lisanloves]

A just God would not ignore sin.

[@savar86]

That’s assuming that all gods judge based on virtue (or that that’s the only just way to judge). Christianity explicitly denies that.

[@user-hi9qn9bw6v]

people in modern societies are leaving established religions in record numbers..in the more backward communities & countries eg Africa and some parts of Asia , recruitment is still steady...

[@creatagheorghe9905]

"EVERYONE WANTS A PIECE OF JESUS "not all it is too complete too perfect!

[@bigshotz1240]

Beautiful guys

[@JohnCook-om3iq]

Sean lives in a golden age of naturalism which one knows he really appreciates as he appreciates truth which is most comendable as it seems to me that he is having problems with appologetics and the suspect varasity of Christianity.

[@camilleroseministries]

So this is just a sales ad?? Disappointed..

[@MatthewCollins-lr7zk]

We have the cloth He was buried in, Sean.

[@SeanMcDowell]

Maybe!

[@Iverath]

The cloth that the Catholic church won't let outside scientists see or test?

[@patriciacesar6500]

No, I don’t think we do

[@davidjanbaz7728]

@@Iverath that's untrue: one was a Jewish scientist and he believes its real! The image is so unique that we cannot reproduce it even today with modern technology much less to the dating age.

[@Iverath]

@@davidjanbaz7728 Well, if a random Jewish scientists said so it must be true! I can paint that image. Hell, it doesn't even have the right proportions. It's such an obvious scam, which is why everybody but minority of Christians take it seriously.

[@borneandayak6725]

George W. Bush's brother?

[@atmafj]

Doesn't matter what religion, focus on their background message not the words that are conveying them and devote yourselves whole heartedly. You all are focusing too much on the material things brothers and sisters, detach yourselves from desires and ego and spread love and care. You will all reach God, he is our father and we are in school. He told us how to graduate and now it's up to us to reach home to heaven. Please listen to me. I'm telling you the truth. Jesus is my Massiah, Mohammad is your Massiah, or maybe Krishna is your Massiah, focus in their message not their stories. I love you all brothers and sisters of faiths and even all who don't know faith. Please spread this message. Let's find our way back home to our father

[@CR-yd4qe]

If 500 named people say they saw the resurrection fine if one person tells you 500 unnamed people saw the resurrection then that’s hearsay.

[@ricksonora6656]

Small correction. Walter Martin (author of Kingdom of the Cults) preceded Josh McDowell. At that time, the primary threats came from heretical sects and other religions. That’s where apologetics focused. Josh’s contribution was to redirect apologetics toward addressing atheism, which, officially, was beginning to take over education and media. Ironically, apologists are now so focused on theism and nominal Christianity, they’re leaving their flank open to the false religions.

[@jlbrockett25]

Wouldn't knowing theism conversely mean you would also know false religion?

[@ricksonora6656]

@@jlbrockett25 Theism is belief in a god or gods. Believing theism only allows identifying non-theistic religions as false. Examples would include animism, some forms of Buddhism and Hinduism, and secular religions such as atheism and secular humanism. There are many false religions within theism, as well. Examples include JW, LDS, Oneness Pentecostalism, Unitarianism, Hellenism, Satanism, Catholicism, and “Progressive Christian.” Within Protestantism, many denominations teach false religion, too. Typical examples include denominations that say you have to earn or secure salvation (as contrasted with simply trusting God) by some oxymoronic mix of grace and works.

[@kprosser310]

[15:40] Great to hear from Sean but I would add Josephus' statement on Jesus Christ should be accepted as wholly authentically his. It was not an interpolation. The fact is from manuscript evidence, we can be sure Josephus' statements on Christ were in both 'Wars' as well as in 'Antiquities'. There is no evidence of Christian interpolation in either. The accusation that this was, is centuries old but it has always been just an assertion. The earliest records support the authenticity of Josephus' entire two sentences on Christ Jesus. He merely quoted what he had personally learnt when he was a general in Galilee, and personally knew Ananias the youngest son of Ananias the high priest mentioned in the Holy Bible, who was the one who had James the brother of Jesus the Christ executed.

[@NoTrashInHeaven]

Thinking about Christians who never got to read the Scriptures for themselves, had to rely on good people to deliver reliable information ..

[@Iverath]

Yeah, Christians wouldn't be Christians if they didn't blindly trust in the words of people they don't know.

[@stevenwiederholt7000]

@@Iverath Everyday you put your life in the hands of 100's/1000's/10's of 1000's(?) of people you don't know.

[@Iverath]

@@stevenwiederholt7000 I don't trust everyone that tells me something. That's how you get scammed. I'm sure you see the difference here. (Hint: why don't you trust the testimonies of other religions?)

[@lizadowning4389]

@@stevenwiederholt7000 You: "Everyday you put your life in the hands of 100's/1000's/10's of 1000's(?) of people you don't know." Maybe, then again they don't tell me that they're going to help me by using a bronze age fairy tale.

[@blusheep2]

@@Iverath Nor do Christians put their trust in everyone that tells them something either.

[@SportsFan824]

Do you respond to comments, if so I have a question! If the bible says, Galatians 2:16, then what happens to the people to believe in Jesus, but not Christian. Like that believes Jesus was real (like followers of islam, Buddhism ect.) I hope for you to answer. Im rather new to this stuff!

[@br.m]

They don't believe Jesus is real they just piggyback. Those are cults just like mormonism, Roman Catholics etc...

[@ronbrubaker8855]

Hi SportsFan. Good question. The bible say in James 2:19 that even the demons believe and shudder…so there is a difference between full faith in Jesus as the way, the truth, the life as He claimed to be, his divinity, his death for your sins, and his resurrection and what other religions may believe.

[@SportsFan824]

@@ronbrubaker8855 Thank you! I really appreciate that!

[@SportsFan824]

@ronbrubaker8855 And I'm sorry to ask, but could you explain to me the verse of John 14:6? It relates to what I was wondering previously as well, and like I said, I'm new to the Christianity thing and trying my best to learn and understand the good book more and more each day!

[@br.m]

@@SportsFan824 Hi KZbin alerted me to this even though it is directed at the other fellow. I could share my thoughts on John 14:6 If you keep in mind what Ron said about even the demons believe and shudder. When Jesus wept over Lazarus, some people suggest he wept because even those closest to him still did not understand who he is. When Jesus commanded unclean spirits from a person, the demons knew who he was right away. The demons greet him as "Son of God" or "Son of David". They know who he is but they do not understand his mission. In John 14:6 Jesus is still trying to explain to his Apostles who appear to still struggle accepting his true mission . It is said that everyone was waiting for the Messiah but expected something else. Another David who would liberate them from Rome. Rule from Jerusalem in the flesh. Not die on a cross. So John 14:6 is Jesus telling them how to get to his real kingdom. He said he will come back and take them to where he is going. You should have in mind all of the Good Shepherd things Jesus has said. Like the shepherd comes to call his sheep and lead them to pasture. If you are unfamiliar then it is worth looking in to the shepherd themes. Such as "no one gets to the Father except through me" this is like Jesus being the door. When he says he is the Good Shepherd and he lays down his life for his sheep. The shepherd lays down in the opening to the sheepfold so that no sheep goes out nor any wolf comes in without having to cross over him first. The shepherd will call his sheep and they will know his voice. So those sheep will come to their shepherd and he will lead them. I think that is what Jesus is saying in John 14:6 in my opinion. Sorry for writing so much but that is the fun of trying to understand the Bible one part always leads to another

[@hondotheology]

what the heck is jesus research? the bible?

[@IanMM88]

What happened to jesus after he rose on the 3rd day?

[@SimpleCivil]

he took a Sunday drive with Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny

[@IanMM88]

@@SimpleCivil I feel sorry for you.

[@ardbegthequestion]

Well if he rose, then he didn’t really die, so then he didn’t really sacrifice his life for anything. But one of just many silly questions is why isn’t the world as magical as the biblical world was?

[@IanMM88]

@@ardbegthequestion He was tortured and killed and then rose from the dead on the 3rd day by God. He was tortured and killed to cover our sins. What do you mean magical?

[@ardbegthequestion]

@@IanMM88 - well by magical, I mean a world in which an extraordinary power or influence seemingly from a supernatural source bends or subverts the laws of nature. It’s curious as to why that type of stuff no longer happens in the real world. You know like: Enchanting plagues on others, a disembodied spirit in the form of a pillar of smoke or fire, giants, boats that can hold every single animal and feed them and remove their poop, people living hundreds of years, old barren women having children, the earth stopping its rotation, genocides by a spirit reaper, people coming back from the dead, making food appear from nowhere, changing people into pigs, living in whales, talking bushes/snakes/donkeys, levitating people, destruction of solid objects with a trumpet, multi headed dragons, limb regeneration. … just to name a few magical things…

[@mikearchibald744]

Christianity is unique in that its the ONLY religion which demands you accept its basic principles on faith but then turns around and claims that the evidence is ironclad. Thats absolutely insane to think you can have 'evidence' for resurrection. Back then you cant even have video footage like 'alien autopsy', sure THAT was real. I remember volunteering at a mennonite church to build a house, and we were talking dogma while working and an old guy said "if you are spending time arguing about the crucifixion you aren't working hard enough". I liked that their view was "pay a little more attention to Jesus' life and what he said rather than his death and what came after". And then get back to work. That was good advice.

[@thedude0000]

meh, Islam does the same thing. Also, 100% agree there is no actual evidence for a resurrection, but that won't stop Christian apologist claiming there is.

[@mikearchibald744]

@@thedude0000 I know plenty of muslims, and I've hardly met one that will go into the apologetics of proving Mohammed said what, when. Its not a coincidence that where they claim it most infallible are political states. I've found muslims to be more like jews in that there are cultural PRACTICES they adhere to, often even knowing that there is no real sensible reason for doing so. Its a cultural artifact. But you look at how many of these christian apologists are just virulently repeating the proofs that have been part of the history.

[@thedude0000]

@@mikearchibald744 _I know plenty of muslims_ To be fair, this isn't an argument. I know plenty of muslims as well, and their defense of Muhammad is just as defensive as Christians. _But you look at how many of these christian apologists are just virulently repeating the proofs that have been part of the history_ Where do you think the Kalam Cosmological argument originated?!?

[@Lasquez111]

Click bait! There is none! You have so called gospel’s with contradiction BS all the way through and a Jewish historian’s writings nearly 100 years after Jesus supposed death in which all biblical historians agree was added to his original book🤦🏼

[@11kravitzn]

The figure in Daniel 7:13 is a visionary figure, like the monsters mentioned earlier in 7. The angel later explains the vision in verse 27 "Then the sovereignty, power and greatness of all the kingdoms under heaven will be handed over to the holy people of the Most High. His kingdom will be an everlasting kingdom, and all rulers will worship and obey him [i.e. the most high]." The one like a son of man is the holy people of the most high. Jesus is not claiming to be God, or the son of God (except in a certain sense, possibly), but a representative of the saints of YHWH. This alone is not evidence that Jesus claimed to be God. But Mark 15:62 does have Jesus claiming to be the Messiah/Christ. However, the Messiah/Christ was not (necessarily) understood to be divine. Romans 1:4 days that Jesus was "declared to be the Son of God with power...by the resurrection from the dead." A plain reading of Mark would say he received the spirit at his baptism (1:10-11) and then was apotheosized ("highly exalted") by God after death, Philippians 2:9.

[@davidbell2547]

I've come up with a helpful acronym for some arguments for the existence of God. They can be a bit tricky to remember all at once, so let's hope that this acronym can help you COMMIT it to memory, when needed. Cosmological Ontological (Maximally Great Being) Moral Intelligent Design Transcendental

[@lizadowning4389]

And they've all been debunked over the years.

[@blusheep2]

@@lizadowning4389 No they haven't. Don't be silly.

[@lizadowning4389]

@@blusheep2 OK then, throw your best argument at me.

[@lonelyperson1233]

​​​@@lizadowning4389can i give U a argument pls. So where does any ability to do anything come from

[@blusheep2]

@@lizadowning4389 I think there is a better way to go about this. Since you made the claim that all the arguments have been debunked then tell me how the Kalaam has been debunked? What do you mean by "debunked?"... and "what explanation do you replace it with?" This is a very common argument for God's existence. The foundation of the argument started with Plato, was further formulated by the Muslims, popularized by Aquinas, and has stood the test of time... over 2000 years. Arguments don't last that long if they are so easy to debunk.

[@gabrielteo3636]

Sean, you are very enthusiastic and sing the praises of Jesus well, but I don't get how you can justify any miracle let alone the resurrection on testimony alone. If I accept testimony as being reliable, I have to accept every religion is true and contradictory to each other.

[@blindcuckoo6680]

The testimony of Jesus extends beyond just the two eye-witness accounts in the gospels (Mark is likely written by John Mark a friend of the disciple Peter. Luke was written by a doctor and historian, and friend of Paul's, who also wrote the Book of Acts ). The conversion of Saul, a Jewish Pharisee who persecuted Christians, to become Paul, a Christian is recorded in the book of Acts and in Paul's own writings in the NT. Saul/Paul met Jesus on the road to Damascus. You also have thousands of people alive who have met Jesus in dreams, in person and become Christians as a result. Let's look at other religions: Islam- there wwere no witnesses to Mohammed recieving his revelation from an angel, there is no word from God from anyone else that Mohammed's revelations were actually from him. You have to take Mohammed's word...! Latter day Saints/Mormons- Joseph Smith apparently received his revelation from Jesus and an angel but I don't think there were any witnesses to this. Jehovahs witness- loosely based on Christianity but altered by Charles Taze Russell who had no revelation or encounter with God, nor special training but could not accept some Christian beliefs. Now is controlled by the Watchtower. Hindhu- is based on a series of beliefs and does not have a single holy book or , as far as I know, credible witnesses to the tenants of its faith. I may be wrong. Jewish faith is based on the Old Testament books. These are referred to many times by Jesus in the New Testament. Christianity is the only faith where we are saved not by "being good", but by our belief. Being good all the time is a) impossible and b) begs the question if you have to be good to get into heaven what level of "goodness" (or badness) is acceptable? Look up Clement of Rome and Polycarp, early Christian leaders who met the disciples Peter and John, and wrote extensively quoting from books that are now in the New Testament (it is unlikely they would have written things that weren't true if they met John and Peter). Lastly the book fo James is written by Jesus' brother who, according the the Gospels did not believe he was the Son of God until his resurrection, then he believed and became leader of the church in Jerusalem, and died for his faith. That's pretty strong evidence in itself. Also read in Acts how the disciples went from being scared and hiding in a locked house, to being so sure of their faith they went out preaching and dying because they believed Jesus is God's Son and was resurrected. There is plenty of evidence. If you need more, look up the Jellyfish Man or Judith Halim testimonies

[@yunusjhon651]

All creations on objects in infinite space are the creations by process of Nature inside infinity of space .Space is softness that without object just like creatures living inside air,beam of light,and under water.The infinity of space where of objects of creations are leaning inside would end with mortallity.While space is eternal and immortality .space is uncreated!without space there could never something be existed.

[@yunusjhon651]

Where all objects......

[@victoriabarnes5680]

Jesus knew how to write. It is in bible.

[@ksp3697]

Will the world be peaceful without abrahmic religions fighting for conversion? Where are the red Indians , so many African tribes and their cultures, aborigins, parsis, etc ? Where many cultures destroyed by abrahmic religions in last 800 years and now are these pogrom executors acting very peaceful holy cows in the last century after doing pogrom of so many cultures in the name of true path , paganism etc? Where was J in the missing years , was he in India learning Vedas , yoga and meditation and because of which was his soul able to leave the body and re enter the body after some time , which is possible in yoga ? Is abrahmic religion all about legalising sins, if u want to have relationship with ur sister , father , mother which is a sin but is it possible in one of the abrahmic sect , so do people with different aspirations move from one abrahmic sect to another depending on where their unholy aspirations are legal.

[@raysalmon6566]

well I really appreciate Sean in my struggles with Aron Ra 46 explanation for how we have multiple angels wandering around telling stories of different Jesus 's now by my hypothesis that it accounted for but yours it is not my hypothesis accounts for the fact that Justin Martyr says that Jesus is older than all the old gods your hypothesis does not account for that so you're I mean you're reading Justin Martyr differently from how historians do there's just a whole bunch of like right now I mentioned but at the beginning that historians just take what they've been told of Jesus was a real character they never questioned that they don't even notice and I'm actually a historian do this where they think they read that passage of Justin Martyr that I just read to you that word told you about and they read that and they interpret it that Jesus or that Justin Martyr believes that that Satan is a time traveler nowhere in that passage does Justin Martyr imply that Satan went back in time nobody ever wrote anything about going back in time Aron Ra | the mythical historicity of Jesus

[@mikejurney9102]

What does it even mean that Jesus is God? And how could any of us ordinary humans possibly know that with any veracity? Do I know all things that I can legitimately verify that Jesus is Omniscient? Do I exist everywhere that I can legitimately verify that Jesus is Omnipresent? Do I even know how much power it takes to create and sustain the universe that I can legitimately confirm that Jesus has all that power? I think such a claim would pretty much be meaningless coming from me or you.

[@ntkmw8058]

I wrote a whole page comment giving resources to some bozo and he decided to delete his comment

[@HarryNicNicholas]

pray mate, it works everytime i hear.

[@biddiemutter3481]

​@@HarryNicNicholasamen to that.

[@ntkmw8058]

@@HarryNicNicholas are you ok man? You seem mentally bipolar

[@bigsingerjackson]

if jesus is alive and the supernatural power of god is so good why did the christian church have to commit so much CARNAGE for the gospel to be spreed. It seems to me that there are more question than answer and nothing but pain for the bible.

[@bigsingerjackson]

also if the spirit of christ is moving in his followers how can so many people claim to be full and be following the spirit yet reach such polarizing conclusions that it causes division and the same christ to have more than 3,000 different denominations. and out of so many options how do you know that your in the flock of sheep and not with goats?

[@Alien1375]

Let's ask Jesus himself. Anybody got his phone number?

[@bobak5126]

There was no historical Jesus. Look up so called “peters confession”. Jesus asks his followers who do the people think that he is? Top answer? John the Baptist who was risen from the dead. This is unbelievable, and very likely not historical.

[@user-gv8xf9ul5j]

Update on my Jesus research, day 458: still have not seen a Christian drink poison and survive as stated in Mark 16:18, losing hope that Jesus is son of man

[@stevenwiederholt7000]

And just how many people have you seen drinking poison?

[@user-gv8xf9ul5j]

@@stevenwiederholt7000 zero, not a single Christian I’ve met has faith in this passage

[@lisanloves]

The most ancient manuscripts conclude with Mark 16:8.

[@user-gv8xf9ul5j]

@@lisanloves correct, but god apparently wants this in his word. If the most powerful being in the universe can’t even control what’s written in his own book, why does it deserve worship?

[@stevenwiederholt7000]

@@user-gv8xf9ul5j Jesus answered him, “It is also written: ‘Do not put the Lord your God to the test.’” Matthew 4:7

[@Guy-xr8lj]

Christianity is exclusive because God hates sin and there's only one savior. We're not running a popularity contest. Jesus isn't running for office. He is the God of heaven and earth and sinners but be conformed to him, not just in word but in deed. Otherwise they are false believers.

[@alittleofeverything4190]

Nope

[@beatle1956]

Fairytales are for children.

[@BigIdeaSeeker]

Is the term “surprising” legitimate, or is it just a clickbait title? My guess is there is nothing new here. Please leave a message with time stamp if there’s anything worth looking at. Thanks.

[@SeanMcDowell]

Thanks for watching. If you consider the state of Jesus researcher since when my father first wrote Evidence in 1972, it’s actually quite remarkable (and surprising) how far it has come with archaeology, manuscript discoveries, and more.

[@BigIdeaSeeker]

@@SeanMcDowell Cool. But I guess for those of us who are up on things, this presents nothing new (which is okay). I suppose it’s more of a summary statement if current thinking. I’m still waiting for a statement from a prominent evangelical that atheists (or better, those who reject Judeo-Christian god) have good reason to do so. It would be the position of integrity. No more Romans 1:18ff. You’ve got to admit it’s easy to see how the state of Jesus scholarship is not convincing.

[@ntkmw8058]

Nice irony

[@HarryNicNicholas]

@@SeanMcDowell in 2000 years no one has turned up any evidence that is persuasive in any way, of any god never mind yours, and people are losing their lives because of these silly beliefs, i suggest you shut up until you have something concrete and keep your talking snake cult to yourself, and have fun selling each other books and laughing at us atheists while we burn.

[@lizadowning4389]

@@SeanMcDowell Yet, no archeological evidence has ever been unearthed that even suggests the historicity and provenance of those who supposedly wrote the biblical texts. Egypt is literally the most dug up archeological site in the world, yet no evidence in support of an exodus. The Red Sea is even an error in translation, should be Reed Sea. Dozens of known ancient historical writers did not even mention Jesus, let alone his divine status and being a man of deeds (miracle worker). Discovering manuscripts does not equal evidence in support for the acclaimed attributes of Jesus and god. It simply demonstrates that contemporary men wrote down their worldviews, opinions and beliefs. That's it.

[@XDRONIN]

@SeanMcDowell How about the fact Jesus's virgin birth is not mentioned in the authentic writings of Peter, or in Mark's Gospel? What about all the sayings of Jesus found in John, and not found in any of the earlier gospels?

[@ntkmw8058]

Different people know and emphasize different things

[@XDRONIN]

@@ntkmw8058 Or because they never heard these things

[@AndJusticeForMe]

Jesus research is farcical.

[@damianabbate4423]

All this work done and still no god to show for it. Arguments and lame evidence hasn't produced any gods and you're still left with biblical inference, crazy miraculous events that only happened in a book and feelings for a character in a book.

[@paul_321]

There’s always been a high level of apologetics but it’s in Catholicism. It’s unfortunate you rarely give credit to Catholics

[@HarryNicNicholas]

catholicism is basically organised crime these days, they've had to declare bankruptcy to avoid losing their churches because of all the abuse suits. why do catholics wear dresses anyway? bit hypocritical to criticise drag queens while being a flippin drag queen.

[@MgtowRubicon]

"In all of human history, the supernatural has never turned out to be the right answer to anything: Natural explanations of phenomena have replaced supernatural ones thousands upon thousands of times, while supernatural explanations have replaced natural ones exactly never." -- Greta Christina

[@andrewmeneely9774]

Tell me then ...WHAT IS ENERGY .. DO YOU KNOW ? YOUR ARROGANT ATTITUDE IS SHOWING.. ARE YOU MAKING A TRUTH CLAIM....... YES, I BELIEVE YOU ARE ! NOW PROVE IT !

[@davidbell2547]

That there is circular reasoning and a logical fallacy

[@davidjanbaz7728]

Poor Greta: lost in translation !

[@twitherspoon8954]

@@davidbell2547 _"That there is circular reasoning and a logical fallacy."_ LOL from someone who literally worships propitiatory human sacrifice based solely on a fictional character.

[@davidbell2547]

@@twitherspoon8954 it's funny that you have to INVENT a strawman to be able to counter my supposed beliefs. It's because there's no other way for you to 'score points'. If there was, you wouldn't resort to strawmen. I challenge you to state 1 accurate thing about what i actually believe

[@bibleburner8426]

I love how Christians talk about the ressurection of Jesus when they can't even provide any good reason to believe that he actually existed.

[@blusheep2]

Don't be silly.

[@bibleburner8426]

@@blusheep2 And, I'm still waiting for a good reason

[@blusheep2]

@@bibleburner8426 Go do your homework. If you think there isn't good reason to think that Jesus existed then you are an idiot. Not a strong thinker. I can understand you doubting the resurrection but denying he existed, at this point in time, is akin to a flat earther. The existence of Jesus is one of the most agreed upon truths in Biblical scholarship.

[@biddiemutter3481]

I would have thought that the non-Christian writers after Jesus, writing about what Christians believed about the man named Jesus who was crucified, would logically lead to the acceptance that, whatever one believed about him, Someone named Jesus was living...you don't crucify non-existent people ... and was crucified and still had a following.

[@bibleburner8426]

@@biddiemutter3481 The people that you are referring to all lived and wrote decades after Jesus' supposed death. That makes their accounts hearsay, and in turn, useless.

[@sanjeevgig8918]

The gospel of John was written in 90-100 AD = DECADES after Jesus was dead. Josephus born 37 AD - AFTER Jesus was dead. Tacitus born 56 AD - AFTER Jesus was dead. They wrote DECADES after the fact. Jesus was performing MAGIC TRICKS in front of all these people and conveniently NO ONE WROTE about it while he was ALIVE. LOL

[@blusheep2]

Think about it more honestly. First, Jesus began his ministry and ended it in a short 3 years when the Romans finally hung Him on a cross. His ministry was primarily around the Sea of Galilee not in the large cities like Jerusalem or even Beth Shean not far away from Galilee. Surely people heard of this man, as is evident by the Jews reaction to Him but they would likely have doubted as much as you. People, even back then, weren't prone to believing fantastic stories they weren't there to witness. Then you have a problem with the material one writes on, papyrus which only lasts about 100 years unless its under the perfect conditions. Papyrus writings wouldn't have been circulated and recopied unless they were considered important works. That is why we have copies of people like Josephus and Tacitus but few others that would record a history. Papyrus was very expensive. It wasn't like our paper today. That is why, when a Bible, say, was copied it was used for decades. So who do we have then? Why do we need 100? Speaking historically, isn't three or four sources pretty good? Both Josephus and Tacitus are actually very close to the time of Christ. Josephus, as a historian, writes about stuff much older then that. You can claim that Jesus used magic tricks if you want. I can't prove you wrong, but remember that the magic tricks that the professionals use today in order to walk on water etc, requires technology that they didn't possess back then. Then again, my guess is that this is just a supernatural bias anyways. Maybe you would feel different about the supernatural if you had ever experienced it, as I have. Also, do you know how the dating is arrived at with the gospels? It is generally believed that the first book written was Mark, though it could be Matthew. In Mark, Jesus makes a prediction about the destruction of the temple which happened in 70 AD. Secular biblical scholars assumed because of their own supernatural bias that this could not have happened and so the book must be dated after the destruction in 70 AD. Every other book is then dated off of that. If they are wrong about Mark then they are wrong about all the rest as well. Not only that but Paul who was killed in 65ish AD references Mark in one of his letters which suggests that the book must be dated to at least 65 AD. Again, almost a decade earlier then the the secular scholars want to believe.

[@sanjeevgig8918]

@@blusheep2 Thanks for the EXCUSES and more EXCUSES and a MADE-UP history lesson.. "I can't prove you wrong" = ONLY TRUTHFUL line in your word vomit. . LOL

[@blusheep2]

@@sanjeevgig8918 Wow. I'm disappointed in you Snjeevigig. I figured that you were a critical thinker and not just a scoffer. Many people just haven't been exposed to the reasons for different things and I figured you would show a little bit more class then accusing me of excuses and made up history lessons. I'm really sorry if my rational approach to the question is so troubling to you that you have to do the common response and just Deny it outright. Now you can go and forget about it and repeat your irrational and emotional responses to others. Have a good night.

[@sanjeevgig8918]

@@blusheep2 BULLCRAP. We have Chinese manuscripts OLDER THAN JESUS. YOU are the ones who are making up the years in which the gospels were written - OUT OF THIN AIR. . LOL

[@thedude0000]

@@blusheep2 _Both Josephus and Tacitus are actually very close to the time of Christ_ Let's be clear. These two were simply writing about what Christians were saying at the time. They are not remotely evidence for a resurrection or any divinity claims. _ It is generally believed that the first book written was Mark, though it could be Matthew_ *What serious biblical scholar says Matthew was written first?* _In Mark, Jesus makes a prediction about the destruction of the temple which happened in 70 AD_ *That's BECAUSE Mark was written in 70 CE or later. Not sure why you think this proves the miracle*

[@jakegreen5081]

Historians who lived during the time, or within a century, of the purported time of Jesus and who wrote nothing about him: Philo-Judæus, Pliny Elder, Arrian, Petronius, Dion Pruseus, Paterculus, Suetonius, Pausanias, Florus Lucius, Quintius Curtius, Aulus Gellius, Juvenal, Martial, Persius, Plutarch, Apollonius, Quintilian, Dio Chrysostom, Columella, Valerius Flaccus, Damis, Favorinus, Lucanus, Epictetus, Hermogones Silius Italicus, Statius, Ptolemy, Appian, Phlegon, Phædrus, Valerius Maximus, Lysias, Pomponius Mela, Appion of Alexandria, Theon of Smyrna

[@ntkmw8058]

That’s like ppl in 2200 saying trump didn’t exist because his neighbors didn’t write letters about him. This comment stinks of Jesus-mysticism Omission isn’t contradiction

[@jakegreen5081]

@@ntkmw8058 So no refutation.

[@leannadoran5090]

Honest question--Where in the ancient world did most of these writers live and/or document life?

[@mrfabulous4640]

Which from that list would expect to have written about Jesus and why?

[@jakegreen5081]

@@mrfabulous4640 Any of them, why pick just one. Kind of obvious if some dude is doing extraordinary things, he would be the talk of everywhere and historians of the time would have atleast mentioned him.

[@iceman4660]

For a copy religion it was a poor attempt. Using a person punished as a criminal went against the grain. As I recently discovered the Romans had no issues with a victorious man becoming a god. However a defeated man was an impossibility

[@astrawboiii1853]

There is a book that has almost the exact story line of the titanic before the titanic happens, does it make the sinking of titanic not real? The difference is they have eyewitnesses and archaeological evidences, plus testimonies. Be smart

[@lizadowning4389]

The divine translation (aka resurrection) of a story's hero was a common literary trope in "those days". The much more popular story of Alexander also mentions his resurrection, several Roman emperors were "seen walking among the living", etcetera. In fact, writing about their hero (Jesus), it would have been quite remarkable if he didn't resurrect from the death. It was almost "expected" of hero's in those days. That didn't mean people believed he actually resurrected. There were several christian denominations in those days that viewed Jesus as a mortal man vs others that exhalted him to divine status. In the early centuries CE there was a heated debate among christian on christology (who was Jesus). Being a "man of deeds" (miracle worker) was equally normal in these stories. Long before Jesus many tales narrated of men of deeds, performing miracles. Therefore, treating a narrative where a hero resurrected as evidence for his factual escape from death and reaching divinity, is dismissing a literary custom and an unfounded inference. There is simply no real evidence in support for his actual resurrection.

[@simonhewitt8914]

Every single one of your points has been refuted in depth on many occasions. Read more widely and you may need to reconsider your position.

[@twitherspoon8954]

@@simonhewitt8914 Jesus is a fictional character.

[@lizadowning4389]

@@simonhewitt8914 "On many occasions", eh? OK, then you won't have any problem directing me to one of your sources. So you contest that the ancient story of Alexander did not narrate his ressurection? Do you reject the Roman manuscripts found where witnesses atested they saw their former emperor walking the streets, among the living? Elijah raised a widow's dead son (1 Kings 17:17-24) and Elisha whose miracles include multiplying the poor widow's jar of oil (2 Kings 4:1-7) and restoring to life the son of the woman of Shunem (2 Kings 4:18-37). That's all been refuted, eh? "Read more widely" ... that's got to be a joke, right? How familiar are you with ancient Hellenic and Hebrew literature and their literary styles and tropes?

[@simonhewitt8914]

@@lizadowning4389 NT Wright's The Resurrection of the Son of God would be a good starting place for you.

[@simonhewitt8914]

@@lizadowning4389 You do also know, I would assume, that much of the literary evidence for your contention, post dates early Christianity and almost certainly borrowed of it, not the other way round.

[@paulhaynes3688]

As per usual no evidence just claims

[@monkkeygawd]

Well, there are literally ZERO contemporary eye-witnesses to the supposed Jesus character who wrote anything down (other than much later, unsubstantiated claims). Paul was the closest author writing with his authentic letters (some are known forgeries), in which he speaks of Jesus as if he doesn't know Jesus's parables, etc., and Paul boasts that he himself received his Gospel from NO man, but ONLY through revelations (visions) and scripture (old testament extrapolations). Kinda weird to say the least, especially when he supposedly hung out with Jesus's close follower, Peter. And, Paul had the audacity to ARGUE with Peter lol. There are NO CONTEMPORARY sources outside the Bible claiming Jesus did miracles, resurrected, or even LIVED. PLUS, the anonymous gospels, beginning with Mark, used Pauline letters to breathe historical fiction into Paul's Jesus Character's life. Then, Matthew and Luke (and John, to some extent) literally copied Mark verbatim, extrapolated, embellished, and redacted to create their own gospels. Christianity is a literal myth. Historical fiction. NOTE: I am a mythicist, but the facts I'm spewing hold true whether or not Jesus existed or not (the odds are that Jesus's story was merely a Jewish version of the VERY common Mystery Cults of the times, such as Inanna and Osiris).

[@TheTonggingfai]

Clearly this person (monkeygawd) done little or no research.

[@monkkeygawd]

@TheTonggingfai and, you, sir, are a doo-doo, poopy-face head. ...but, seriously, it's fine if you disagree, of course, but I deal in research/legit scholarship, not apologetics with my head bouncing around in the Christian echo chamber. So, do you have any insights to share that disprove anything I said? 🤔

[@Jd-808]

Mythicists have this absurd view of antiquity wherein information was only passed via the texts that happened to have survived for 2000 years. Most of it was oral and on top of that, most of the texts are lost to us. You might class the gospels as “historical fiction” depending on your definition but the idea that they were created from a couple lines of Paul’s letters is laughable.

[@monkkeygawd]

@karlarobinson453 ALL of those sources are ALL by NON-EYEWITNESSES and regurgitated by secondhand + documents, etc. No eye witness accounts. And, the Josephus section was added after; forgery.

[@jakegreen5081]

@@karlarobinson453 You clearly don't know what the word contemporary means.