Near-Death Experiences: The Evidence

[@nursenicole222]

Have you ever had anyone claim to see someone else’s death experience. My brother died at the age of 32, he was hit by a car. I was 16 at the time. At the time of his death (the exact time), I woke up from a dream that was more vivid and heartfelt than anything I had experienced. I was in a doctors office after having been tore in half and stitched back together. There was a doorway in the office with “the light”. I knew I needed to go to the light. I had no fear, I was only sad to leave my loved ones for the time being. I woke up looked at the clock and noted the time. A couple hours later I was pulled out of school by a police officer and taken to the hospital to find out my brother had died at the time of this dream. I’m 50 years old now and I still believe God allowed me to witness and feel my brothers experience.

[@stevemiller6368]

Nicole, it's called a shared death experience, which is well-documented in near-death and deathbed studies. My cousin experienced such a vivid vision in the middle of the night, like a heart-attack and came out of his body. Immediately after he came back, the phone rang with a nurse telling him that his dad had suddenly, unexpectedly died of a heart attack. Thanks for sharing!

[@cindybrown7527]

I have questions. You said you were sleeping at the exact time, then said you were in a doctors office being stitched back from being cut in half, but then you were in school. How can all 3 of these be true? You don’t go back to school after being cut in half and stitched that day or the next and you don’t dream while getting stitched in a doctors office.

[@dfkuz]

@@cindybrown7527 I can see why we'd be confused but I think she was beginning to narrate her DREAM when she said she was in a doctor's office! Does that make sense then? I hope she wasn't sleeping in school, LOL!

[@dfkuz]

Demons live in the possessed person's mind; and all those that have not yet trusted Jesus Christ are possessed from birth, maybe from conception. Demons apparently use a relay system of sending information about real events happening simultaneously to each other when they have planned an orchestrated deception on any certain human being. This is why psychics are able to "see" things happening hundreds or thousands of miles away! Demons can even impersonate the form of someone known to the victim and that fake image tells the victim things they could not have known naturally, either in their mind, a dream, a vision, even a telephone call as demons are electromagnetic and can interface well with electronic and electric devices. Until people begin to wake up to the supernatural war we're in with these evil beings whose only intention is keeping the unsaved unsaved, stories like these on KZbin and other platforms will only serve their interests and send countless gullible listeners to a permanent death.

[@WeQuiltStudio]

@@stevemiller6368 Steve, ty for this. I now understand my terrifying dream when my mother died and was revived. I now understand that I had a Shared Death experience. It happened in 1985, but in 2014 I made a video describing it, so that I would not forget the details.

[@lindawarner7496]

Sean, you are one of the best interviewers anywhere. You listen so intently and speak so clearly. You do not interrupt your guests. Your questions are terrific.

[@SeanMcDowell]

Thanks Linda, I really enjoy it!

[@carolrudat5934]

QQq

[@helendillard7784]

Well done!

[@loisgerrish8452]

I did not hear actual evidence.

[@caseykittel]

@@loisgerrish8452 the research compares very similar stories from loads of different people, from different cultures all around the world. people also report exactly what was going on around their lifeless body. people also report things that were going on outside the hospital room etc. search for NDE on youtube. you can hear many stories from quacks and scientists alike.

[@dawndakennemer2762]

My father an atheist, died several times on the table. He was screaming " don't let me die, the devil is real " he was begging the doctors & nurses! h His memories of hell were horrific and his screaming nightmares afterwards were just as horrible.

[@cali115]

Is he alive now or did he pass away?

[@stevemiller6368]

How horrifying! A couple of books have been written about studies of people reporting “distressing” or “hellish” NDEs. Dr. Rommer interviewed many such people. Those who have studied them estimate that about one in five NDEs include distressing elements, although they’re extremely reluctant to report them.

[@patrickwright4070]

I was curious about the topic of hell concerning nde

[@marwood1969]

A client of mine told me about her experience a couple of years ago. She has a massive heart attack and found herself in a room with a beautiful tunnel that left the room and went on 'forever'. She chose to return and not to go down the tunnel. She said it was no dream. It wasn't. The evidence is now clear; consciousness lives on beyond physical death.

[@cynaculeu111]

I 100% agree with you.

[@stevemiller6368]

I appreciate your sharing this. Since about 4% of the population reports having had a near-death experience and over 80% of the dying (in one hospice study) have deathbed experiences, we can confirm what the large research projects have found by talking to our friends and family. I think that in the 1900s, the pervasiveness of naturalism made cowards of all of us so that we wouldn't talk about the seemingly supernatural experiences that were happening all around us. Perhaps it's time for people to "come out of the close" about their experiences. It's truly powerful to have someone we know and trust share with us such a remarkable experience and confidently tell us, "It wasn't a dream. It was real. No. It was realer than real."

[@deedeeturner6577]

My brother died when he was 3 yrs old and before he went into surgery he wanted to go visit the other sick kids to let them know the angels told him that everything is going to be ok and to not be scared. He died during surgery. We didn’t grow up in a household where that was talked about. I have a friend who overdosed and had to be resuscitated twice because she left her body twice. She just saw her above her body and felt peace.

[@stevemiller6368]

I’m especially impressed by the testimonies of children, as reported by people such as pediatric oncologist Diane Komp, who also taught oncology at Yale. Since they don’t have a well-developed theology at 3 years, I think they’re testimonies can be especially impactful.

[@franco634]

They are not "seeing" anything. They are experiencing something. Big difference. It is definitely consistent. Great job gentlemen.

[@lawrencewendi933]

How do you explain, the out of body experience? How they can tell you, everything that was said, and every little detail in that room?

[@S.M.E.A.C]

lawrence wendi-Read what he wrote again. Seeing is looking at a picture of the pyramids,experiencing is actually being there.

[@GeertKok]

Experiencing is depending on senses

[@bob1519]

My Dad was in hospital near death he kept saying I saw a man at the head of a long table and everyone listened carefully to every word He said. He was one with Great Authority and that is all I can tell you, my Dad was a skepical non Christian man and I remember thinking why would a skeptical non Christian make up a story like this.

[@stevemiller6368]

Amy, thanks for sharing this event with us! My guess is that, since the Scriptures state that God is patient, wanting everyone to come to repentance (II Peter 3:9), that He may often give unbelievers one last chance to believe and repent at the end of life. Of course, many may not share their experiences and many may be comatose and unable to express what they're experiencing.

[@ephramwalton]

Maybe he was reflecting the stories and culture that he grew up in, if he grew up in America. Rip to your dad.

[@mccaboy]

@@ephramwalton my grand MA in Malaysia also said the same thing... And she was a Buddhist n believed in many gods. She only spoke Chinese and didn't attend any Chinese school. She saw a man in a white clothes speaking to her. Her near death experience

[@nicolab2075]

A person doesn't have to make it up, they can sincerely believe it and still be mistaken

[@mccaboy]

@@nicolab2075 we have no answer for the skeptical skeptic. Anything is possible but not everything is probable. Look into the evidence yrself n make Yr own conclusions. Be skeptical abt Yr own skeptical view. Cheers

[@brandimercer3797]

I've been studying these NDE's experiences for almost a year and I've found similar from people that partake in the use both dmt or toad "the god molecule''. The similarities between NDE's and a DMT/ and or toad trips are something to be noted. Personally, I've had an experience with the passing of my very best friend. April 21 2021, I started seeing her all day, but physically she was in Wisconsin,states away from me.. she is glowing in a such a way I'd never seen her in this light before, her hands are both raised in the air ,praising God. She emitted light and pure peace, I should have known something was going to happen because I'd never seen her nor thought of her in that way.. 6pm that evening I got a call that she was killed in a 48 car pileup in Polk, Wisconsin. She let me know that she was home before I knew she was gone.😭 This shifted my reality, & brought about my belief in God. There is no other explanation for what I seen. I believe with every ounce of my being that she is home.RIP Melissa Barnett, my precious Poo..

[@wbs1O1]

I can personally confirm that DMT, Psilocybin, LSD can makes it easier to access that realm but it is completely depending on the intentions of the person taking it. If you are just "partying" won't really be significant. Had the unpleasant experience being on hallucinogens with a person that I would describe as low vibration and has never experienced any form of love in his life. I was attaching to his vibrations and it was one of my few experiences that was truly terrifying and I walked off leaving a bunch of confused people in my house. I learned a lot from that experience.

[@BrandonS101]

@@wbs1O1 If you don't mind me asking what hallucinogen was it?

[@BrandonS101]

Yeah every living thing produces DMT, I believe it's released when you die. Sorry for your loss.

[@jasminemariedarling]

I've listened to tons of testimonials of both trip reports and NDEs and yes there are some similarities for sure. I'm really sensitive to pot, so I couldn't ever handle dmt or anythingstrong, but I've had experiences with just weed. I only smoke/eat edibles once a year or so. I've had experiences that I believe connected me to the other side. But now that I'm leaning more towards Christianity instead of ambiguous spirituality, I'm not sure if it's a good idea. But I'm still obsessed with hearing about NDEs! And am fascinated by everything spiritual.

[@TheGreatTimSheridan]

Your account is very interesting,. Was she appearing to you visually, in your mind Zai, or did you think that you saw her somewhere? And did you say she was illuminated. I have seen deceased people who appear illuminated but only in dreams

[@martiwalsh2069]

Hospice nurses have reported that it is very common for patients in the process of dying to calmly see deceased family members arrive who have come to escort them.

[@wp4934]

"Terminal Lucidity" possibly!! After listening and reading about the research on NDEs and listening to end of Life stories, I wonder if those who experience these lucid moments before dying are actually entering a phase of dying where the body is preparing dye and the Consciousness is preparing to move on. Dr. Peter Fenwick has proposed that death is a process and names about 6 or so steps people go through in the PROCESS of dying. Very interesting research on his part!!

[@GeertKok]

Satanic abuse forces extrabodial experiences. Spiritual warfare from another dimension

[@tinekedijk7385]

Dear Sean. In my nursing days I had a patient FAINT. When he came too he told me ,terrified , that he’d been with demons !

[@dfkuz]

Sometimes the demons are either unimaginative or they feel they can achieve their main mission - to instill a false belief system, which is any belief that is not predicated upon placing their faith in Jesus Christ for their eternal life - by scaring the person. My two direct encounters with the demons I was born with (as all humans are - had one experience of a group of them very happy with my descent into greater deception and the other murderously, gutturally angry with me for beginning to realize what was going on! I’m saved and sealed into Jesus Christ now and safe from demonic assault!

[@reykingbabie7]

Oh man the amount of supernatural stuff that’s happened in my family should be studied then. From seeing family members who hadn’t died yet dead( multiples), to night terrors and out of body experiences, to being delivered from demonic spirits..etc God is very real and He works in ways that are beyond us a lot of times. We can try to understand it but we’ll only understand as through a glass dimly for now.

[@daman7387]

That's encouraging! Can you give an example?

[@jenniferzingalie8006]

When my dad died of cancer my son had a dream that he came to him and hugged him snd said goodbye - not a NDE but thought it was interesting that he had that dream

[@stevemiller6368]

That's called a "crisis apparition," which is quite common and has been studied quite a bit. Often people will see a deceased person saying "goodbye," even when they didn't know the person was ill or dead, even if the person was on another continent. This is part of the subject of my next book. Thanks for sharing!

[@mtgsk5180]

So interesting! When my grandmother passed away seven close friends and family had dreams of her. One family friend said she walked into our family dining room and the dining table was filled with white lilies (my grandmother's favorite flower) and she was lying in the midst of it looking very peaceful. Not NDE, but still, very interesting!

[@stevemiller6368]

@@mtgsk5180 Were the seven separate dreams very close to the moment she died? When they're before or very close to the death, they're called crisis apparitions. When they're longer after the death, they're often called after death communications.

[@agentjs09]

I have heard so many stories just like this. Either in a dream, or in a vision, or some other way. May your father rest in peace.

[@JBM101]

soul is powerful but that is all it is ... soulish nothing spiritaul at all

[@richforchrist2229]

After listening to this I realized I have had a “shared NDE”. How? I had all the elements of an NDE except it was my sister who actually died. On 9/5/96, a presence kept sharing that someone close to me was going to die on 10/3/96. This voice was so loving and kept placing this in my spirit or mind daily. Eventually, I discerned it was my sister. I had prayed to God on 8/18/96 that if He was real, show me or give me a sign that He was real. This is what triggered this presence or angel coming to me daily. My sister who was not sick, young and healthy died exactly on 10/3/96! I was an agnostic. I did not believe in a personal God. Well, this experience caused me to believe in God, Christ and the spirit realm. The spirit realm is vast and complex. I am still amazed that I had this experience. I am leaving out so many amazing aspects of this experience. I would love one day to share all the details. The Bible says that “Man is appointed once to die then the judgement”. Well, I can tell you that this experience with my sister proved that we all have an appointment date with death, already determined long before we actually die. The moral of this experience is that God is real! He also knows the intimate details of our lives and can share it with us. Not one person on earth could have known the exact date of my sister’s death when she was healthy, young and living life. Only the creator who lives outside of time and space could reveal this to me. In my sister’s death, I received life through my transformation from an agnostic to a believer in Christ!!!

[@stevemiller6368]

Thanks for sharing about your shared death experience. A cousin of mine, whom I respect greatly, had a similar experience, on the same day as his father’s death, which was unexpected. It’s hard to explain away the timing when it’s so specific, and we know that the experience is so common.

[@richforchrist2229]

@@stevemiller6368 Thank you Steve! It makes the scripture in Hebrews 9:27 real: “Man is appointed once to die and then the judgement!” How in the world can I guess the exact day and hour of my sister’s death. I have no doubt that we all have an “appointment”. So, let’s focus on a meaningful life!

[@stevemiller6368]

@@richforchrist2229 AMEN!

[@paulsmith8321]

I totally agree with Dr Miller's near-closing comment that it all comes down to "Love God, love people". Oh what an incredible impact we Christians would have in this needy world, if we truly lived this out daily.

[@janpoole910]

THIS is only possible through The Immersion (Baptism) in The Holy Spirit! Then we receive power to do this!

[@paulsmith8321]

@@janpoole910 Where does the Bible say that?!

[@terrikincaid9921]

Mark 12:30-31

[@agentjs09]

The problem with the naturalistic explanation is that there are too many examples of people who see things that they couldn't possibly see unless their consciousness actually was out of their bodies. Like the case where the guy floated out of his body saw a blue shoe on the hospital roof. If it were simply their brain playing tricks on them, that would be a remarkable coincidence.

[@stevemiller6368]

I think the Pam Reynolds case is one of the most spectacular and well-documented. But as far as a study of multiple cases that show people having cardiac arrests know what was going on while they were experiencing clinical death, I'd point to Dr. Sabom's study as described in his book, Recollections of Death.

[@ThePossumone]

Exactly - or hear things they couldn’t have heard in different parts of the Hospital

[@deedeeturner6577]

It was actually a woman that saw a red shoe on the roof.

[@leoaguilar4288]

One person I read about, years ago, had been in an OR being operated on, went into c-arrest, drs attempted resuscitation, but were unsuccessful. The man later explained that he found himself above his body, which was covered from head to toe with a sheet. He stated that he continued to float upward, through floors of the hospital-seeing the patients and people on different floors as he rose. He then floated through the top floor, up above the roof of the hospital. After his NDE, he told someone of his fascinating experience in which he described certain details of what he saw as he rose through the hospital. What really stunned an interviewer, was when he described, in exact detail, the hospital roof. There could be no possible way he could have known this.

[@vermontmike9800]

This story was debunked as no one at the hospital could verify any of the details. I believe the original story included the patient allegedly seeing a shoe on the roof.

[@santosturmio8189]

@@vermontmike9800 how do you know? Got any sources/links ?

[@vermontmike9800]

@@santosturmio8189 there are plenty of articles on google as well as a video or two on here.

[@mrsq117]

Here is the link for a video of the social worker who found the shoe that the NDEr saw on the window ledge - what the original person of this comment is talking about is not the shoe NDE however, I think it must be another NDE experience - kzbin.info/www/bejne/l6PaapiEhK-LlZo

[@santosturmio8189]

@@mrsq117 thanks 👍

[@dustinsegers4534]

Miller's book is hands-down the best overall book on this subject from a Christian perspective. Highly evidential and easy to read. I've recommended it to many unbelievers and they have found the evidence quite persuasive if they are a little more open-minded.

[@richforchrist2229]

After watching this, I now realize why I’m so fascinated with NDEs. I had a “Shared NDE” with my sister. I had the visitation from an angel who said she would die on the 3rd of October 1996. But the angel told me starting around 9/5 that someone close to me was going to die on 10/3/96. Over the course of weeks the loving message became more clear until I knew it was my beautiful and healthy sister who was not sick. She died on the exact day of 10/3/96. I left out many details of this loving spirit and experience. The spirit also revealed during this same time that my wife at the time was having an affair. I found out it was true. This experience is the greatest of my life. At my beloved sister’s funeral, “I said in her death I received life through Christ.” Thank you for clarifying this personal experience.

[@stevemiller6368]

Thanks for sharing your astounding experience! This would be consistent with "crisis apparitions" which were found to be quite common. People would know of the death of a loved one either before or when it occurred. My wife told me of a similar experience of hers regarding know her grandmother would die, from an extremely vivid dream, like she'd never had before.

[@thetruthwillsetyoufree4747]

Thank you for allowing me to speak I really do struggle with this

[@marygantt1550]

I’ve been doing my own research on NDE’s for over twenty years. There’s not one ounce of doubt in my mind these are true experiences and there is a beautiful place we transition to when we pass over.

[@sandypidgeon4343]

Sean, you nailed it when you said general revelation. I've been studying NDEs and SDEs in the post-doc work (Apologetics at SBTS), and, I had an SDE in 2000 when our housekeeper died (6000 miles away) - I didn't know she was even in the hospital, and her daughter called me 10 seconds after I saw her face blast through my head. This is a great apologetic tool, and, as Gary Habermas has said, while we can "make some hay" out of the parallels in stories, the hard data of the physical conditions and things seen, such as people traveling around the hospital/going home/etc., are more valuable when explaining this to atheists. That said also, what is even more fascinating, and, even a better apologetic are the "terminal lucidity" events;whereas, people with Alzheimers/dementia, who have been completely unable to function, especially, cognitively, regain full cognitive ability minutes before they die, which, gives credence to our understanding that consciousness is not tied to neurologic functions at all. Anecdotally, I heard this happened to President Reagan to Nancy when he passed. These happen everyday, and, we have perhaps not documented these with the vigor we should. Great interview. Would love to talk to Dr. Miller about these. GOD Bless

[@SeanMcDowell]

Thanks for sharing, Sandy. Dr Miller and I discuss terminal lucidity in the follow up interview which is based in his latest book. I agree, it’s fascinating. Blessings on your research.

[@VGiacobe]

I have passed out and had an experience. It happened 38 years ago and it’s still clear in my mind like it happened yesterday.

[@mr.andmrs.killion9612]

My husbands 16 year old sister died of cancer. She saw Jesus in a body of armor and told their grandmother about it before she passed. So amazing.

[@stevemiller6368]

I'm so sorry for that devastating loss. But experiences such as hers can certainly help the grieving. Dr. Diane Komp, a pediatric oncologists who taught at Yale, wrote a book titled "A Window to Heaven: When Children See Life in Death." Seeing such events in the lives of dying children brought her from existentialism/atheism to believing in God and Christ.

[@n-r-m8888]

God knows why he wanted her to see him in the armor 🤷🏽‍♀️🤷🏽‍♀️. Praise God

[@caseyk.1386]

It was a totally average day, I was standing in the kitchen, doing the dishes when this sudden wave of grief swept over me and I started uncontrollably crying. I was crying so hard that I couldn’t stand and had to brace myself on the counter. I’m not usually someone that cries and to cry that hard would typically mean that someone had died. It was totally unexplainable to me and I wondered what I could be so upset about, but I couldn’t think of anything. Well, my cousin called me the next day or so and told me our friend was missing and that he was thinking of traveling up there to join the search parties. He didn’t get a change to, because the search did find our friend’s body in the water. He had jumped from a bridge the same day I had my crying experience. I don’t have an explanation for what happened, but I believe it’s somehow linked. I pray God had mercy on my friend’s soul, I know he was hurting.

[@stevemiller6368]

I’m so sorry for you loss. Your experience has been shared by many, and seems to be subset of what has been called “crisis apparitions” where people see or experience people who have just died, although they had no idea the person had died. I talk about them in a section of my second book, “Deathbed Experiences as Evidence for the Afterlife.”

[@wolverine3344]

Really well done gentlemen. Most paranormal studies I’ve seen are not rooted scientifically. Very much appreciate the academic seriousness.

[@kimthetruthofit6965]

Believe it, embrace it, it is real we go home We are the children of God 🙏

[@eftixismeni2010]

I had an NDE in 2017. It’s something almost impossible to understand and or believe unless you have experienced it for yourself. And there are after affects and abilities that you are left with. It took me quite a few years to re-integrate back into this physical realm.

[@stevemiller6368]

Yes, re-entry into day-do-day life can be quite a challenge. Some people think, “I wish I could have such an experience!” But one that your loved ones typically don’t want to talk about? An experience that may be the most important experience in your life, but you’re afraid to tell others because they may think your crazy? Coming back with a set of values that many can’t comprehend? I hope you’ve learned to live your new life in the light of it!

[@TokyoRake]

Please share the link to the Hospice study that found 80% of the dying report death-bed supernatural experiences. 49:44

[@imperiomx6392]

Also I made a realization about ndes. In a non lucid dream you don’t feel things. Example: love or senses like touch. But in near death experiences you can feel to much love. You can also touch things some people get hugged by Jesus and they feel him.

[@stevemiller6368]

Nice observation. In tracking my dreams I find many differences between these and NDEs.

[@pinkdiamond1785]

My 7 year old daughter passed away in an unexpected accident at home in September of 2020. I have a lot of questions that no one can/will answer… I’ve believed in God my whole life but I stopped going to church when I was a kid. Since my daughters death my faith has struggled severely to survive to be honest… When I ask these questions I always hear “some things we aren’t meant to understand”… but I know the Bible says to seek knowledge so for the last 10-11 months that’s what I’ve been trying to do… I know you’re probably busy but if you ever find time I would really like help in gaining some understanding on some things…Thanks

[@stevemiller6368]

I'm so sorry for your loss! I understand some of your feelings and questions. I lost my first wife to cancer in her 30s, leaving me with four boys to raise. The questions you're facing are deep as well as emotional. We can either talk about them here if they're related to our discussion of Near-Death Experiences, or I can give you my personal email address.

[@ruthwood8806]

Pink Diamond, I'm so sorry about the loss of your daughter. I am just a reader who noticed your post and want to reach out to you. A scripture that has comforted me greatly in loss has been Psalm 34:18: "The Lord is close to the brokenhearted and saves those crushed in spirit." You are right that the Bible tells us to seek knowledge. I've found that as I've sought to know Him, I've come to trust more and more that he is kind and good . . . and then the questions about why have come to matter less. Much love and hope and prayers that you will find peace.

[@pinkdiamond1785]

@@stevemiller6368 My mommas friend says she can see and talk to my daughter… There are things her friend knew that she couldn’t have known because no one except me knew and she lives in a different state… I’ve experienced things in my house since my baby passed too. For example, one of her colored pencils rolled off my kitchen counter and across the floor by itself… Most Christian’s I know keep saying it is a familiar spirit impersonating my daughter. But I didn’t summon anything and my mommas friend says she doesn’t summon her, my daughter just appears to her… I’ve been studying the Bible and I came across the story about Moses and Elias appearing and talking to Jesus on the mountain. One of my questions is: If talking to the dead is a sin and Jesus was without sin, why would he talk to Moses and Elias? Also many people bring up the story of King Saul and say that he was killed for consulting with a medium… but I’ve been studying the word for word translation(NASB) and from my understanding that wasn’t why Saul was killed in that version. It was for disobedience(not destroying all of the people and property that God commanded him to). I don’t want to do something that will keep me from my daughter for eternity… but I want to talk to her more than anything. I’m just really confused about what is ok and what is not I guess. Thank you for any insight into this.

[@pinkdiamond1785]

@@ruthwood8806 Thank you 💕

[@lavonalarson7211]

I am so sorry for the loss of your daughter. I believe when the Bible says to seek knowledge, its knowledge from reading the Bible. I too lost a child and felt so lost and confused. I wanted my son back so bad. I was in a really bad state. I didn't do anything bad but some how the demons attacked me anyway. Anyway I realized that what I needed more than anything was God. Completely turned things around for me. I will never "get over" the loss of my son. I do know that I will see him again one day. I pray that you will find peace and comfort with the Lord.

[@daffidavit]

Everytime I've been under mild sedation (propofol) for a diagnostice test or for a cortisone injection for a herniated low back disc I was completely unconscious. In other words, I was not dreaming when I was under. Again, this was light sedation, not full anesthesia for a difficult surgical procedure which would be even deeper. My point is that if others undergoing surgery react similiarly, there can be no chance they will dream during the procedure. My conclusion is that something else must be going on. The release of brain chemicals at death should not be enough to allow a person under anesthesia to think, dream or contemplate anything. So what is causing someone to see themselves and the details in the room around them?

[@mbm8404]

I had an experience like this when I had knee surgery. It was a timeless experience beyond words. The most pure love, unity and timeless/infinite moment that changed my life forever. Ever time I encounter someone, including animals, in my life now I feel like I’m linked. Drawn almost magnetically, and the vision comes back to my mind & heart. I knew during that moment with God that my life would be spent helping. It hurts when I can’t help, but I also know it’s ok and I can be patient. I was always in a hurry until this happened to me, but now I can be here with peace of mind knowing something no, more feelings with my heart and soul that life here is a gift and loving/being with others is enough for one day I’ll return when the time is right.🙏

[@nonamefound95]

What is ur opinion on christianity ?? Is it true that non believers burn in hell for eternity??

[@stevemiller6368]

Thanks for sharing your experience!

[@jeffcarolwarfford3279]

Interesting interview. I’m very surprised that you all didn’t mention the Division of Perceptual Studies at the University of VA. Fascinating research that has been going on much longer than Dr. Miller. Dr. Bruce Greyson, who is the director, has a VERY remarkable experience of how he got into this research having grown up in a family with a completely secular view of life and death. I’d strongly encourage anyone to look at DOPS at UVA.

[@wp4934]

He published a book, "AFTER"' recently that is very clinical, intentionally. Very interesting and provides overwhelming research that is hard to deny! Although he himself remains a skeptic. That what researchers need to be!!! I read it numerous times and still go back to specific sections. Doing so helps me connect the puzzle pieces when considering all the other resources available!!

[@stevemiller6368]

Thanks for mentioning this program. There are tons of great researchers I failed to mention. To me, one of the most astounding things about NDEs and deathbed visions is how much great research has been done by fantastic researchers over time.

[@wp4934]

@@stevemiller6368 I enjoyed your interview!! It is getting to be a little "striking" for me connecting dots with the reading and video watching I have done. I like to pin my ears to the researchers. I want to see how well their skepticism hangs in when the going gets tough!! It is clear to me that every experiencer has their own reaction to their experience. There is something that "directs" an NDE much like a director of a movie because each one is tailored to the individual. I believe our own psyche and our own self perceptions are involved. By an overwhelming number of comments from experiencers they indicate those things they are being sent back to work on are mostly their own issues!! I read a great piece from an experiencer who felt that experiencers are sent back to clear their minds of all the problems in their lives in order to "clear" their consciousness before entering that space with the divine!! (Page 41 to 58 in Lessons from the Light by Kenneth Ring). Sorry to go so long with the comments, enthusiasm!!! I am not a church going religious type. I will admit now that I believe our consciousness survives in a divine realm. I am a puzzle guy and like putting things together. Any reading you might recommend, or videos involving researchers?? Thank you so much for acknowledging my comment!!!

[@avamandrell4445]

I had a best friend that I had to rush him to hospital he had blood clot his heart stop and they bought him back 3 times I was there he loved his Mom who was in Heaven and he looked and me said I got to see my Mom and I want to be with her and he told me goodbye and had such a a peaceful look when he left

[@stevemiller6368]

What a powerful experience that you were allowed to share! When you see it first-hand, it packs quite a spiritual punch!

[@fjc8900]

People who bring up LSD for this situation clearly never took LSD

[@santosturmio8189]

Exactly LSD is something completely different If anything it would DMT that could be remotely similar

[@stevemiller6368]

I appreciate your sharing from your experience! Some who say, "NDEs are just like a Ketamine or DMT or LSD experience" may have experienced certain aspects of NDEs, like "It seemed so real!" and "There's more to life than the material existence!" But I've yet to hear an experience that comes from a study (not just someone on the internet) which has all the elements of an NDE. More likely, they pick and choose from one person who saw a deceased relative, another who saw and angel, etc., and declare "See, certain drugs can produce NDEs; what if the body squirts those into the brain when people are dying? There's a good study in the Journal of Near-Death Studies showing the vast differences in the DMT and NDE experience.

[@santosturmio8189]

@@stevemiller6368 we need more people that had NDEs to consume some DMT Then we can know for sure Cause I think the general consensus is that it's more similar than not similar

[@stevemiller6368]

@@santosturmio8189 Thanks for your thoughts! I'm not sure of a consensus, but the best study I've seen comparing them is here: Journal of Near-Death Studies, vol. 31, no 1, Fall, 2012, by Michael Potts, Does N, N-Dimethyltryptamine (DMT) Adequately Explain Near-Death Experiences, pp. 3ff. Potts' conclusion is that although there is some overlap, the DMT experience doesn't adequately explain the NDE.

[@Dudeswagmaster]

Correct!!!

[@RKLCan]

Question for all and perhaps Sean. Is talking about Near death experiences a good way to witness about Christ? Pethaps to open their mind about spiritual realm?

[@SeanMcDowell]

It can be a good tool to use sometimes.

[@stevemiller6368]

I've found them to be a great transition to talking about spiritual things, especially since there's so much publicity now (in documentaries, interviews, even in popular TV shows like Grey's Anatomy and McGyver), and since so many experience them. Even in an academic setting at a secular university, when my wife or I mention to people what I'm studying (NDEs/DBEs) inevitably someone pulls me aside and says, "Let me tell you what happened to me."

[@TwoMessianicJews]

I really enjoyed this discussion! I look forward to Dr. Miller being back!

[@bluewater3783]

9:25 and you tend to forget dreams, whereas NDEs tend never to be forgotten...

[@bluewater3783]

11:45 the "Hallucination" Argument: would millions of people all share a few basic types of "Hallucinations"??? No, they wouldn't.

[@bluewater3783]

20:30 The "Debunkers" have NOTHING of value to say against the existence of NDEs or ELEs (Near Death Experiences and End of Life Experiences), especially since the discovery of "Shared NDEs", in which a healthy BYSTANDER is drawn into participating in someone else's NDE--suddenly, the tired, old Debunker Arguments fall apart: "Anoxia" (lack of oxygen), "too much Morphine"--because the bystanders are healthy!

[@bluewater3783]

22:55 Yes: the Pam Reynolds case. Brain aneurysm (not a "tumor"). "Debunkers" try to Debunk this case because it's the best case: they drained all of the blood out of her brain and cooled her down to 50F before surgery--and when both heart and brain were DEAD, her Consciousness/Soul recorded conversations and what the instruments looked like...

[@bluewater3783]

47:23 "visions toward the end of Life" = ELEs (End of Life Experiences)...

[@stevenscruggs5271]

The thing that got me, I meet a person who had been through a NDE, they knew I had been through one. I could see in them what they saw in me.

[@calvinsbeard7423]

The aspect of the NDE being more real than our reality reminded me of "The Great Divorce" by CS Lewis.

[@Mark-cd2wf]

Fantastic book, one of my favorites 😁👍

[@BrandonS101]

So both people that have experienced NDE and the drug DMT both say that the realm feels more "real". Interesting.

[@stevenhensman2541]

Remember my friend this is only a reality Too It is not real Well it feels real It feels real on the other planes too The spirit world but remember there are many levels in the spirit world

[@danresnick1957]

I use to struggle a little with people who said they saw thigs that didn't seem Biblical until I heard a nonbeliever at the time on Randy Kay's show, Say saw the Devil and demons not only lie to him but also other nonbelievers them telling them that they were in Heaven with the intention of them surrendering their soul to him (Satan) without the need for repentance. It is along story and I can't recap it all now, but it was very convincing and biblical, and my doubts have been put to rest. I am a believer.

[@kellysmith7163]

Super interesting! I enjoy all your discussions. You are a great resource.

[@msurowka5]

Pediatric nurse 45 yrs. Oncology for 10 yrs I have had several pts that have had these experiences.

[@keithschultz83]

I have been in surgery several times in my life, a couple of times with just local anesthetic, and I couldn't tell you almost all of the tools and procedural events that occured and my brain and hearing were 100% functional vs. being clinically brain dead.

[@stevemiller6368]

I've never heard anyone make that point, but it's a good one. Thanks!

[@ThePossumone]

Good way of looking at it

[@PeterFortuna]

Sean, you're very polite to your guest and offer extremely polite questions

[@deborahgrantham7387]

I believe near death experiences are just a part of the spiritual world that we in the West resist because we like nice and simple. It’s not nice and simple. Could we be spiritual beings.... the Bible says so , we in the West want to come up with something else,. We don’t like that.

[@wp4934]

Interestingly, NDEs are limited by geography, they are a world wide phenomena!!! But then isn't that what God is!!!

[@callummcneill6266]

The bible is not true

[@callummcneill6266]

God is not real

[@jakobstewart3771]

@@callummcneill6266 keep telling yourself that

[@aliceobukhova7604]

@@callummcneill6266 you have to believe this because to acknowledge God means you must do something with Him. Typically, people just love their sin and God does give you the freedom to choose between life and death. Satan, the little g god does not let you choose. All he wants is to harm God by taking what is rightfully His. But God is God. Why don’t you just be honest and say you have no intention of parting with your sin rather than to be a joke unto yourself and teach creation made itself.

[@allysondoerfler8688]

I'm 73; when I was a young girl a close relative of my parents (Uncle Mike) died and was resuscitated during surgery. Because of his delicate health no one told him that he had died on the table. He told my dad about climbing stairs with an angel when the angel suddenly turned and said, "I'm sorry, but you have to go back."

[@stevemiller6368]

Yes, Moody identified the decision to return as quite typical. To me, this helps to distinguish NDEs from dreams and hallucinations, which seem to start in the middle of a story and then, mid-story, you find yourself awake.

[@NiRaSis]

As a person who believes Ive seen a demon, I still have a level of skepticism when I hear other people's supernatural experiences. You would think I would be more believing of others based on my own experience. Our human minds are always trying to rationalize everything instead of just accepting these experiences for what they are.

[@stevemiller6368]

Surely it's healthy to maintain "a level of skepticism." We do NOT need to believe every experience we hear. We are to test everything that we hear reported. Ask if there are possible ulterior motives in the person's sharing. Ask if deception might be involved. Look for the fruit: good or bad. Thanks for the reminder!

[@mrsq117]

Nicole please May I ask what happened to you, what did you see

[@user-kc7pf7xj5j]

"Near-death experiences point to a world beyond our own. Whether any particular near-death experience is a reliable experience from God can be challenging to discover. However, one thing remains true of everyone: we will all die. And there is only one rescue from a just and eternal judgement: repenting and believing the good news of Jesus Christ." Quote from Near-Death Experiences (NDEs) and the Christian by Brandon Clay on October 24, 2020

[@ma.esther9637]

I’m 52 years old and had NDE when I was 19 years old. I saw my body lying on the floor with blood and I was in a place with so bright.

[@DavidSmith-vj9uf]

I've had a minor experience like this. Wasn't 'shared death' as such. I always forget about it until a video like this reminds me. I was a teenager heading towards my local city centre. As I was walking past the hospital I was drawn to it. I didn't dwell on it, just thought, 'i want to go in' then shrugged it off and forgot about it. After a short while, probably an hour or two, I went home and as soon as I walked through the door my dad looked at me and said, 'grandad's in hospital with a suspected stroke.' He survived. Turns out he hadn't had a stroke at all, he'd just forgotten to take his tablets! It's not much of an experience, I know. But whenever I'm reminded of it I wonder why I wanted to go into the hospital

[@stevemiller6368]

Often people just brush things off like that as coincidences, but when you find out how common they are, such as studies on crisis apparitions by very reputable researchers, you take another look at your own experiences and often give them more credence.

[@zillahmm]

I've been watching podcasts of near-death experiences since January. I've been skeptical about it. But one thing that convinced me that there must be some truth in it -- many of them came back with a mission and it has something to do with telling others about Jesus. One other person you might want to consider interviewing is John Burke. He used to be very skeptical about near-death experiences but eventually got persuaded to seriously look into it.

[@stevemiller6368]

Yes, I like John Burke's book as well!

[@SpicyCurrey]

We know they are generated by the brain because we know the brain does this kind of thing all the time during periods of unconsciousness. Astral projection is a generally common experience for people in dreams. So, this is the exact kind of thing we already know the brain does. It's not unpredicted that an experience making and pattern recognizing thing, finds patterns and makes experiences about something sometime around brain death. I find these proposed experiences to be entirely predictable and simply not specific enough to rule out intuition, luck, or even lying (which is a low probability). A doctor not being able to find a vein is a typical problem. What would really surprise people is if they were able to read some random documented changing numbers that are displayed in the OR. This needs more testing!

[@ThePowerAndControlWheel]

Not also that it was so vivid, but that you can think back on the events leading up to it, it has a history and logical connection from time past to present .. moments before and days before

[@AlexADalton]

There is one issue I never see mentioned in the studies of NDEs though I think the question should arise quite naturally, and it lends support to their objectivity. It is very often reported that an NDEer will experience a boundary, be told it is not their time to go, and that they must return (often against their will). It's also very common that they are given a choice - whether to die and enter the light, heaven, etc. or to return to earth. I have read through thousands of these accounts in the studies, the IANDs archive, and Jeffrey Long's database. Never once have I read an account where a person chose to go on to heaven, but then wound up returning to the body despite this. If these are hallucinatory, this should be quite common.

[@MapleBoarder78]

Good point.

[@stevemiller6368]

Alex, that's an astute and perhaps original observation! Yes, it would seem that a naturalist, physicalist hypothesis of NDEs would predict that the Being of Light and messengers/angels/deceased relatives would often "get it wrong." I too have never heard of a person choosing to be ushered into heaven, but they found themselves coming back. This would surely be predicted by an afterlife hypothesis, but not predicted by the dying brain hypothesis. I think we need more people thinking evidentially about NDEs. Typically, in the studies, they don't spend much time wrangling with the evidence.

[@AlexADalton]

@@stevemiller6368 Hi Steve. I just ordered your book. I try to read everything I can get my hands on wrt NDEs. For my own part, I've been less convinced by the veridical OBE claims, and more convinced by considerations around the phenomenology of the accounts - specifically what seem to be commonly reported details in a large number of them like the above, that seem highly improbable on the hallucination hypothesis (HH hereafter). To unpack the boundary experience further, I find it just initially improbable that the brain would consistently conjure an experience in which it creates a character that rightly predicts that your visionary experience will soon end and you will be ushered back to your body. I have read many accounts of experience across a wide range of psychedelics and dreams, and haven't seen anything like this. The fact that we don't see any false invites into heaven in NDEs adds to this improbability, but I think we should acknowledge that something like this even initially occurring in a hallucination is improbable. Further, its often a deceased friend or relative delivering the info. On HH, it seems too convenient that the brain so often pulls from the right pool of characters to fill this role (an improbability which I have seen mentioned in the NDE literature). Further compounding the problems on HH, this boundary agent (whether a deceased relative/friend, angel, the Light/God, etc.) often engages in a bit of a dialogue with those who insist on staying separated from their body. The NDE'er is often shown visions of their children, spouse, or other relatives that need them, reporting that the ecstasy of the experience itself had all but caused them to forget about their closest loved ones. These visions have such an emotional impact that it often actually reverses their decision, and only then are they ushered back. At this point, on HH, the brain has not only selected the right characters to deliver these accurate predictions, but it scripts them to make an argument via means of a vision within a vision, to convince you of the need to return! Without even mentioning instances in which true predictions of future births, death of relatives (e.g. Mary Neal's experience), completeness or pain of recovery from injury, etc. are given by the agent at the boundary, I think at this point it strains credulity to say that this kind of highly rational narrative structure is the product of the hallucination of a dying brain. If it is, this level of unconscious screenwriting is almost as much of a revelation as evidence of an afterlife. I think the similarity across NDEs of these narrative/structural components is what intuitively impressed Moody and many others originally, and what we just tend to naturally associate with objective experience. But I think these similarities go much deeper than those typically reported, when we examine the details, further adding to the improbability of HH. I find that the life review in particular is a treasure trove of these deeper improbabilities. We hear it referred to in passing in much of the popular literature as someone's life "flashing before their eyes", but this phraseology does no justice to the profound nature of the experience. I've gone on very long here, but one aspect I'll point out is that, the life review is frequently referred to as being experienced from 2, 3, or more points of view. The NDE'er claims to see specific moments, or often see and even re-live an entire lifetime of memories, from their own perspective, but also simultaneously from the perspective of those whom their actions affected either negatively or positively. They often recount this as one of the more transformative aspects of the experience, many even referencing a new understanding or conception of what's popularly called the "ripple effect". Further, many claim to go through the entire life review or more, while simultaneously seeing what is happening to their body on earth. Many also see the life review from the perspective of their guide, who is actively comforting them in their own overly harsh judgment of themselves, or providing other such commentary via impressions. Perhaps you can come up with a neuroscientific explanation for how the dying brain gives access to the memories, but the narrative around seeing events from multiple POVs (not to my knowledge part of anyone's pre-existing religious/cultural beliefs), all for the obvious purpose of providing a strong moral component revolving around deepening empathy for one's self and others, would seem more than a bit gratuitous on HH, particularly given its common occurrence. This strikes me as much too convenient, and really the way its often described, that kind of incarnation into the conscious perspective of others, simultaneous with our own, is not just hard to even conceive as a possibility in normal waking consciousness, but its probably the best teaching mechanism imaginable. You mention a point in the interview, that compounds the improbability further IMO - that there is a common moral viewpoint beyond just an empathy simulation, that is often unexpected by the NDE'er, yet very poignant in the life review - the fact that "its the little things that count", not one's great accomplishments or accolades. With that type of specific theological/spiritual teaching, such values don't seem to flow naturally from our cultural background; many think the opposite wrt purpose in life and explicitly express it within the NDE.

[@stevemiller6368]

@@AlexADalton Alex, It's been almost a decade since I wrote that book. At the time, I wasn't finding people extensively wrangling with the evidence. Instead, people would present their research, then, almost as an afterthought, write a few paragraphs or pages on "Is this a real experience outside of the body?" I'm delighted to see that you, and hopefully many, are beginning to take this seriously and moving it forward within apologetics and philosophy of religion circles. I've not kept up with NDE research very much after writing my book, since I've been obsessing on evaluating research of the sister experience: deathbed experiences. In fact, if any of you are interested in reading my pre-published manuscript, in part or in whole, I'm presently getting candid input and blurbs. That's all to say, it delights me to no end to see people intelligently sifting the evidence, while being informed by the actual studies. If you don't see a lot of people making your argument above (you write very analytically and articulately), I think you're making some powerful points in ways I've not heard them put. If you haven't already, I'd love to see you put that into an article or book. Basically, you're saying that the more you analyze the common NDE experience, the less viable a physicalist/naturalist hypothesis looks. Who's expecting a life review where you experience past events, not only from your own perspective, but from the perspective of others (something that can't be pulled from our memories)? I agree. If we're comparing hypotheses, to me at this point in my research/thinking, the afterlife hypothesis simply makes more sense of the data.

[@AlexADalton]

@@stevemiller6368 I'd love to eventually write a book on this, and I've got about 60 pages of notes towards that end. I would also be glad to review your manuscript. I saw you posted your email below and I'll send you a message soon.

[@courgette3401]

My mum, an atheist, had a NDE . She found it very reassuring and was never fearful about dying. She never became religious and was adamant that the afterlife was for everyone not just for the religious.

[@stevemiller6368]

Thanks for sharing your mom's experience, as it indeed represents some people's outcome from their NDEs. I don't think that having an NDE guarantees how a person will ultimately interpret it. People still have their own free will and some try to explain it away, others take it to mean everyone goes to heaven, others end up strong religious believers (see Sabom's study of outcomes in his book, Light & Death, where most in his data set eventually gravitated toward going to church more, praying more, etc.)

[@nickwadson5731]

Dr. Eben Alexander's case is quite compelling.

[@Soc-q7j]

I find him fraudulent

[@nickwadson5731]

@@Soc-q7j Citation?

[@santosturmio8189]

@@Soc-q7jwhat does that even mean exactly lol

[@JeanneCiampa]

I had one I died I left my body I met Jesus he showed me my past present future Imparted some messages....I can back with gifts I never had and crazy accurate intuition and have had miracles ever since. Christ is real. He is a ball of ecstatic love.

[@elissabellajoy]

What an interesting topic and fascinating findings. I used to think and read about NDE's in my early teens thanks to my dad's addiction to new age, aliens and everything that was a popular crazy wild topic back then. They ended up calling lot of dark spirits into their lives that affected our whole family. In any case, it's important to not throw out real experiences because of some people's forced made up stories. It would be interesting to hear an interview about "past life experiences" and whether how those memories occur in people's, especially children's minds.

[@billerickson5604]

Yes, we must be very careful what we study and set our mind on. It can open up.doors to dark forces. My son was just curious about Astral projection and researching it with no intention on doing it and he began to experiment strange phenomena that then began to get scary . I BELIEVE FAITH IS A POWERFUL THING , IN ALL SPIRITUAL AND SUPERNATURAL THINGS. when faith is there and not towards whom it should be , I believe demons get access to us and our realm.

[@bigchevy350boy]

​@@billerickson5604🙏 💚

[@margaretkinder5641]

Scripture says our body remains in the grave until the resuscitation, but many folk say they see their family or friends bodily and recognise them.

[@stevemiller6368]

I agree that our bodies remain buried until the resurrection. Reports I hear from NDEs are not saying that they met deceased relatives in the flesh, but in their spirit, which can appear to people as they were recognized in the flesh. Think of Moses and Elijah appearing in the Transfiguration. They weren't appearing in flesh and blood bodies.

[@malindaericsson6268]

I had an nde and after that i started to study THE bible. I think that you cam get the holy ghost this way. The nde made me very serious about christianity. And following jesus THE best i can. It made me know that god is real. Heaven is real. I am very greatfull that he showed me. I know now heaven is home. We are here to love to help people believe and get saved. God is light. God is Love. Jehova Jire. Amen

[@SeanMcDowell]

Wow, thanks for sharing!

[@malindaericsson6268]

Also i came back because i was worried about My two small children. I thought i cant leave Them without their Mom. So i cried out to THE light god i bred to go back twise. His voice is like thunder or as all voices in One. He said something i cant remember. And sent me back. When i found myself in my body i was in so much aaw because i felt new born. The love was stil in me and surounded me like a huge auro. When i got Up i couldnt feel THE floor. I felt for two hours as if i was light like a feather and walked om air. I felt anointed saved and new born

[@stevemiller6368]

Thanks for sharing Malinda! Your response to NDEs parallel's the results of both Penny Sartori's study of NDEs in the UK and Sabom's study (the Atlanta Study) in the United States. They found people who had NDEs seeking God more, praying more, reading their Bibles and attending church more. Of course, it's up to individuals what to do with their experiences and how they live their lives. I'm so glad for your response!

[@malindaericsson6268]

Thank you!

[@samsonsugunakumar917]

Sean McDowell : You are doing a wonderful job.

[@colleencolquhoun8818]

Perfect I'm very familiar with all of these researchers and NDEs How could people possibly not understand or believe what is happening . Some want to just "Stay Sleeping"

[@alihamideh1958]

My cousin on his deathbed he was seeing me crying and praying for him and nobody was with me that showed me that he was able to be out of his buddy to see me somewhere else

[@Nunya1387]

This was an awesome interview!! I really hope he talks more about what people said about their religious backgrounds and whether or not they were important in determining the afterlife experience they had the next time he’s on. I’m not saying belief systems don’t serve a significant purpose in this life, but I really want to know if the purpose of religion is to merely help guide us through this life rather than to determine where we spend eternity.

[@stevemiller6368]

Good question! In my opinion, having a good near-death experience doesn't necessarily say anything about the quality of a person's eventual afterlife. After, all, they haven't experienced their final death. It's like they went to the vestibule of heaven. Biblically, God gives good gifts to the evil and the good. Perhaps someone who was evil or followed a seriously deviant religion may go, have their life reviewed, etc. Biblically, people don't tend to get theology from visions and such. Typically, as in Paul's vision, they're sent back to get correct theology by seeking and talking to godly people. I think of NDEs as letting people know that there's a God and an afterlife, thus motivating them to seek, pray, etc. when they return.

[@Nunya1387]

@@stevemiller6368 thanks for the reply. 😊 If it is the case that an NDE isn’t necessarily reflective of their final destination, have there been any reports of folks that were told they could stay on that side but not necessarily stay in the reality they were currently experiencing? I would think it’d be cruel to tell a person they can stay and then send them to hell once they opt to do so. I keep waiting for an NDE account where Jesus shows up and confirms the need for salvation. It seems to be missing from all of them. The reports seem to reflect that life is about love, that we came from love and go back to love without judgment. It’s almost as if God is experiencing Himself through us and all of our experiences, both good and bad. God’s universal love for all is where so many NDE’s seem to align with each other in their accounts without mentioning the need to believe or live any certain way.

[@jasonengwer8923]

Rhoree, There are some explicitly Christian NDEs (Jesus is seen, sometimes with the nail wounds in his body visible; Christian theology is advocated; etc.). For example, Craig Blomberg, a New Testament scholar, wrote in a September 23, 2011 post on his blog: "I have known people who have had near-death experiences knowing nothing of Jesus who met Jesus but returned to this life and became Christians." Ken Vincent wrote: "I personally have met two Jews who saw Jesus during their NDEs; one converted to Christianity, and the other was thinking about it." (May 8, 2012 post in a thread titled "The Buddha in hell" at Nancy Evans Bush's Dancing Past the Dark blog) Maurice Rawlings, a deceased NDE researcher, became involved in the field after one of his patients (he was a doctor) experienced a hellish NDE and converted to Christianity in the process. Rawlings was the doctor who resuscitated the man at the time, so Rawlings witnessed the man screaming about how he was in hell and converting to Christianity, after which the hellish NDE ended. These are just a few examples among others that could be cited. But my view is that NDEs are mostly of a highly subjective nature, roughly analogous to dreaming. They're supernatural dreaming, and dreaming that gives us some (minimal) information on issues like the existence of the soul and the afterlife, but still dreaming. Whatever view you hold of NDEs, that view has to be reconciled with the other evidence we have regarding religious issues. For example, we have good evidence for the existence of the Christian God from fulfilled prophecy, Jesus' resurrection, his pre-resurrection miracles, the miracles of the apostles, modern Christian miracles, and so on. If your view of NDEs involves the falsity of Christianity, then non-NDE evidence like what I just cited poses some major problems for your view. Furthermore, what's your alternative to a Christian view of NDEs? You, like everybody else, would need an explanation that addresses the largeness and complexity of NDEs. It's not as though NDEs become easy to explain simply by approaching them with a non-Christian perspective. How do you explain the apparent inconsistencies among NDEs, the problems with the kind of religious pluralism people often associate them with, etc.?

[@jasonengwer8923]

Regarding "love without judgment", how is that possible in light of the fact that a mature view of love involves objective standards, holds people accountable, wants to protect those who are victimized by people who refuse to repent, and so forth? Love without judgment isn't love. And NDEs frequently affirm that there's a judgment. See the examples cited in this thread (the case of Maurice Rawlings' patient, mentioned above; the Hindu cases discussed elsewhere in this thread, which often involve various forms of judgment). Nancy Evans Bush, probably the leading researcher on negative NDEs in our day, mentioned that a low double-digit percentage of reported NDEs were negative or hellish rather than heavenly (Janice Miner Holden, et al., edd., The Handbook Of Near-Death Experiences [Santa Barbara, California: Praeger Publishers, 2009], 70, 81). Given how many people who have hellish NDEs don't report it (because of the shame involved, for example), I suspect the percentage is somewhere in the 20s. But it surely is some double-digit percentage. And there are quite a few hellish NDEs that involve the impression that the hell in question lasts a long time, even eternally. For example, the International Association for Near-Death Studies web site notes that one type of negative NDE involves "being completely alone forever in an absolute void" (see their article titled "Distressing Near-Death Experiences"). Or see episode 374 of Alex Tsakiris' Skeptiko podcast, which consists of an interview with NDE researcher Penny Sartori. Though Tsakiris isn't a Christian and is highly critical of Christianity, he acknowledges that a double-digit percentage of NDEs are of a negative nature, and he acknowledges that there are substantial difficulties in reconciling NDEs with each other.

[@stevemiller6368]

@@Nunya1387, Thanks for the input and the conversation on this important topic! I agree with much of what Jason has written below. I'd add that of Muslims who convert to Christianity in primarily Muslim lands, a large percentage had realistic dreams/visions of Jesus which led them to seek. In the cases I recall, Jesus wasn't judgmental, but nice and kind. (I can give you the book references if you're interested.) But it's interesting that in the cases I read, Jesus doesn't go through a gospel tract with them. He basically reveals Himself; they realize that He's a very compelling and loving figure, they need to know more; and they end up contacting someone to fill in the dots. To me, this is the pattern I'd expect from reading Acts. They get a vision. But the vision itself doesn't reveal a theology of salvation. Then, they meet someone who fills in the gaps. I'm with you 100% on the primacy of love as shown in NDEs. But you said, "God’s universal love for all is where so many NDE’s seem to align with each other in their accounts without mentioning the need to believe or live any certain way." Although the "Being of Light" certainly is seen to be the very essence of love, and the life reviews are done in love, I'd have to say that people come back to life having realized that some of the things they did in life were right, but many were dead wrong. They realize, often from another person's perspective, how our words and actions hurt them. That shows that our words and actions do indeed matter. Interestingly, in Dr. Michael Sabom's second book, detailing his "Atlanta Study," he found that a part of the life change for those who experience NDEs is that they tend to get more serious about Bible reading, praying, and church attendance. I'm sure this doesn't happen to all, since I believe that ultimately we have a choice about whether or not we act consistently on what we know, but Sabom's is a finding relevant to this conversation. I believe Penny Sartori reported the same thing in her dissertation.

[@Distantnomad]

I had a dream my dad told me he had cancer, the next day I get a call from my mom telling me my dad had cancer in a cyst on his face.

[@cassandramauerman9760]

What about after a person passed and you have a dream that they came back and told you something?? It’s happened to me with my father and a close cousin??

[@sh0wbiz]

means absolutely nothing m8

[@alesiethedon]

I had a NDE when i was 16. Definitely changed my prospective.

[@janddbackup]

Might want to edit the description! God bless.

[@SeanMcDowell]

Wow, thanks. Fixed it!

[@tracypounds754]

I would just like to add that if a near-death experience can be explained away as a last response of a dying brain then why doesn't every dying brain experience One?

[@stevemiller6368]

Tracy, good observation. That's one reason that many believe they are not caused solely because of aspects of the dying brain.

[@blackdong4footwangnosucky]

@@stevemiller6368Joe Biden’s brain dead but he continues on

[@thetruthwillsetyoufree4747]

My grandmother died years ago the cardinal was a symbol that she was around to me before then that’s a first and only time that I am experienced in a spirit coming to me like that I actually was scared I was scared but yet excited but not scared I can’t explain it I felt her soft lips on my cheek so I know I wasn’t crazy because I physically as well as sensed her I didn’t see her like in flash I couldn’t see her but it was like being in heaven again and being around all those translucent spirits it’s like you can feel him you can see them

[@echohotel7975]

I myself had a near-death experience back in 2005 but I wonder the dimethyltryptamine that gets released at the time of death it's the strongest hallucinogenic known to man I wonder if that can explain some of the things people see while having a near-death experience?

[@colinkillian9265]

There isn't a significant amount of DMT released during death.

[@Greywolfgrafix]

My mother's uncle Andrew died in Cookeville, Tennessee 1956. She and Dad lived in Indiana. One day, she heard a knock on the door and saw her uncle Andrew standing on the porch. When she opened the door to let him in, he was no where to be seen. When she walked back in the house, the phone rang. She answered it and her aunt Mayme told her Andrew had just died a few minutes before.

[@stevemiller6368]

Thanks for sharing that experience! It's called a "crisis apparition" and was studied extensely in the late 1800s by some top scholars connected with Oxford, Cambridge and Harvard. They determined that this happened way too often to be ascribed to random chance, in fact, 440 times as often as a random chance correct guess that a specific person had died within a 24 hour period. In your case, "just a few minues before" would be even less likely attributed to chance. And these events are so common that most of us could find them among our trusted friends and relatives, if we started asking around.

[@thomasjames6323]

(The following is an email I sent to Professor Miller privately. He requested that I post it in this comment section so that this discussion might potentially help others.) My name is Thomas James. I have been interested in Near Death Experiences for several months, but only just heard of you and your book last night, when I listened to an interview you gave with Sean McDowell. I was quite impressed with what I heard, so I've decided to email you to ask you some questions (they are at the bottom of this email, if you'd like to skip my rambling for the interests of saving time). I first discovered near-death experiences a few months ago when I ran into the work of Gary Habermas. I thought for a while that the evidence in favour of them was a slam-dunk so to speak, but recently I have begun having doubts. This is why I am reaching out to you, as I was impressed by the way you spoke of listening to both sides and evaluating the evidence, something I fear I cannot always do. I am not sure if you are aware of the website "rationalwiki." I discovered it a little while ago, although I honestly wish I hadn't. It is a website in the vein of Wikipedia (which is not always 100% accurate, but it tries its best), although it is written from the point of an intense bias. From what little I understand of its history, it was written to combat the creation of the website "conservapedia", a propaganda website that goes far beyond the realm of what most conservatives would believe (I believe they even tried to rewrite the bible at one point to be "less liberal.") However the reaction seems to be just as bad as conservapedia, as individual articles are highly biased against any claim of the paranormal, including religion and near-death experiences. I pay no attention to the claims they make about religion, as Wikipedia (a far more reliable source for general information) doesn't accurately capture the nuance of modern issues (such as the dating of the gospels), so I imagine that anything rationalwiki has will be far worse. But today, I decided to take a look at what the website says about near-death experiences. I'd like to go through it point by point with you, with some of my thoughts below - here is the link (rationalwiki.org/wiki/Near-death_experience) "In the broadest sense of the term, a near-death experience (NDE) may be brought about by coma, serious accident, dreaming, drugs, stress, surgery, seizure, sudden oxygen deprivation, brain stimulation, or orgasm." That's a lot of varying causes, and from what I have seen, none of them accurately capture every experience of NDEs. It's almost like the authors can't decide which way they want to disprove this based on an ideological bias, and are just throwing things at the wall to see if they stick. (Just noticing this now as I put this in the comment section, did they really just suggest orgasm causes near-death experiences? I don't even know where to begin with that...) (It should be noted that most of the claims they make aren't sourced. That already leads me to be very suspicious of their claims, so I'll skip over the unsourced claims and just try to refute objections) Electrical simulation in the brain/Temporal lobe seizure - Mario Beauregard did a study where he found there is no one space in the brain that produces, which I saw Bruce Greyson mention in a video. Chris Carter also did a pretty good job of refuting this in one of his books (I'm not sure if he's a reliable author, as his third book, Science and the Afterlife relied heavily on claims from the 1800s which weren't especially evidential, but his second book is not bad). Finally, this doesn't account for out of body perceptions, things they could not have known otherwise Reduced Oxygen - Greyson also responded to this, pointing out that people get fearful and agitated when this happens, not peaceful. Additionally, he stated that people who have NDE's usually have better oxygen flow then those who don't have then, which could have implications on whether they happen in everyone, but people just don't remember them. It also doesn't account for out of body perceptions either. (The next three points in my opinion are completely irrelevant. The page cites Keith Augustine and Susan Blackmore, two "Skeptics" who are heavily biased against the paranormal. Augustine in particular is not especially honest with his testimony. They then accuse reports of being based on previous reports. From what I understand about Moody's study, this is false, as this was the first study of NDEs that broke into the public sphere (in the 70s, meaning that those who had them in the 30s/40s and earlier couldn't have based them on other reports. Finally, they accuse researchers of cherry-picking - which is ironic given the nature of this website - claiming they only take into account those that confirm their theories. Interestingly, they cite a study from Parnia and Fenwick who are in favour of NDEs. Either way, the fact that NDEs don't happen in every case, does nothing to invalidate them. They try to use this argument again at the bottom of the page, claiming a woman died multiple times in a year and never had an NDE, but that doesn't justify the belief that NDEs don't reveal something about the afterlife.) Artificial Simulation - The next point is one I hadn't heard before. Apparently, in the 1990s, S. L. Thaler modeled NDEs onto artificial neural networks and found that most of the elements of a typical NDE can be simulated on a computer (Whatever that means). This is the first question I wanted to ask you about (I'll ask it again lower down in case you are just skimming through this, which I completely understand) is whether or not you've heard of this research? I don't have the means to access most of the scientific journals linked on the webpage, and I figured you would as a professor. I found a report in one of the IANDS journals which responded to this claim (GUNN, S. C. (1998). CAN ARTIFICIAL INTELLIGENCE HAVE A NEAR-DEATH EXPERIENCE? A CRITICAL LOOK AT THE ULTIMATE TEXT. JOURNAL OF NEAR-DEATH STUDIES, 17(1) 5-19.), but I'm more interested in what you have to say about this issue. False Memories - Essentially another red-herring, this time trotted out by PZ Myers, another militant skeptic. I don't mean to dismiss people like Blackmore, Augustine and Myers off the bat, but given what I've read, they seem to not be following the data where it leads and trying to justify a preconceived notion of hard naturalism. (They then note that a single hypothesis need not explain all parts of an NDE. I imagine they don't apply that standard to other claims on the website so it comes off as very hypocritical.) Brain is still active after death - They then cite a study showing that the brain can remain active for up to 10 minutes after death, but they wildly overstate the claims of the study. For starters, this was a single occurrence, not something that is common or uniform to every person, so it would be unreasonable to extrapolate this to all NDE cases. Secondly, they claim that there are no evidential cases that take place after ten minutes. This is false, there are several cases listed in "The Self Does Not Die" which take place close to half an hour after. I believe there are even a few cases which take place a day later or longer. Ketamine - Finally, they spend a significant amount of time discussing Karl Jansen's hypothesis that Ketamine can induce an NDE. I found an issue from IANDS dedicated to This issue (iands.org/research/publications/journal-of-near-death-studies/325-jnds16.html?Itemid=515) and points out that Jansen may be jumping the gun on is findings. Admittedly, the article came out in 1997, which is some time ago, so I turn to ask you my second question. Do drugs appear to cause NDEs or have any effects that are comparable? And if so, what does this mean for the validity of NDES? Ok, sorry for that long tirade, it helps me to summarize my thoughts. In general, you make a very clear point in your video with Sean, not to trust every single case as statistically, someone is going to be wrong somewhere. All of these explanations (bar potentially the simulated neural network one) don't account for actual observations of data that people could not have known about, such as the Pam Reynolds case. Additionally, I'm well aware that the website is not very well sourced, and heavily biased, so most of the information given is going to be heavily skewed, if not wrong altogether. That being said, I have two questions I would appreciate if you could help me with, as stated above. 1. Are you familiar with Thaler's artificial simulation hypothesis? The sources from what I can tell all come from the 1990s, and it doesn't seem to be an especially common naturalistic objection. Perhaps it is the fact that I am so unfamiliar with it that I do not know how to respond to it. Do you think this explanation holds water, or is it confined to the same problems that most other naturalistic explanations have (that they fail to account for the independently verifiable data, such as seeing events that people couldn't possibly have known)? 2. What is your view on Jansen's studies related to Ketamine? I am inclined to think that these drug trips aren't identical, but I don't have a full picture of the research, and you brought them up briefly during your discussion with Sean. I hope you are well sir, as I appreciate the work that you do. I am looking forward to hearing back from you! God Bless, Thomas

[@stevemiller6368]

Thomas, I'll reply to your post in several different entries, one topic at a time, since you deal with several topics and keeping them separate allows for discussions under each of my replies. So FIRST, ON THE VALUE OF THE RATIONAL WIKI ARTICLE. You said, "I am not sure if you are aware of the website "rationalwiki." I discovered it a little while ago, although I honestly wish I hadn't." Rather, I'm very glad you read it! As a budding apologist (your interest and ability in finding and sifting NDE evidence give evidence of a strength/gift in this area) you want to read all sides of issues. The Bible, over and over, emphasizes the importance of the truth, and especially on controversial subjects, we simply must read the best of all sides to form our opinions. Thus, in the appendixes of my book I respond to articles and books defending a naturalistic view of NDEs (Nelson, Blackmore, etc.). If I'm wrong about NDEs, I want to know it. Thus I read carefully those who disagree with me, evaluating their claims. Robertson McQuilkin, former president of Columbia International University, a Christian school, used to say that his enemies were often his best friends, because their challenges helped him to refine and develop his views. So this is a helpful article to see some objections to the "NDErs are having an out of body experience" hypothesis. It's also helpful in that it actually documents some of its claims, allowing us to dig further. But here are some of the weaknesses of that article: 1) It's extremely unbalanced. Yes, it refers to van Lommel and Moody on defending NDEs, but otherwise it references a veritable "Who's Who" of writers from the naturalistic position (Blackmore, Nelson, Augustine, etc.). Like most of the naturalistic writers I read, they don't seem to have seriously considered the arguments of the main NDE researchers. Although they indeed reference van Lommel and Moody, they fail to lay out the reasons both of these men concluded that naturalism failed to adequately explain NDEs. In other words, you won't find in this article a solid presentation of the evidence for NDEs being spiritual in nature, along with critiques based upon an understanding of this evidence. 2) It fails to present the current state of research. NDE research is published in peer-reviewed journals and as such more recent articles do literature reviews to show the state of the evidence. Penny Sartori's dissertation did a great job of summing up the findings of past research. So did The Handbook of Near-Death Experiences, which noted, for example, that such explanations as anoxia and expectations are not consistent with the findings of NDE studies (pp. 225, 228). I won't go into the specific evidence they give; but I'm just noting here that any article claiming the "rational" high ground should present the state of the research on their claims, not merely quote people who make naturalistic claims. 3) It simply gets some facts wrong. For example, one paragraph claims that the Heaven is for Real story was later admitted to be a lie. He gives no documentation for this and has apparently confused the Malarkey book (which was indeed fraudulent) with the Burpo book. (Let me know if I've missed any recent news here.) So again, this article is valuable for exposing us to some of the naturalistic arguments; thus, NDE researchers should indeed read it to understand all sides. Yet, it shouldn't be considered a serious source, because of the weaknesses I note. I'll make additional posts responding to the specifics you ask.

[@stevemiller6368]

Regarding Ketamine and the near-death experience, I've actually done more study on DMT, but I think that I give you a way to approach these claims for any drugs or induced experiences from neurologists poking around in our brains. And yes, I think you're right in that such naturalistic explanations don't account for veridical components such as reporting seeing things they couldn't have seen while their eyes were closed and their brains experiencing clinical death. Here's what I wrote in my new manuscript on deathbed experiences. (My copy and paste didn't capture the footnotes. I can get you the references if you need them.) : Some say that “Drugs such as DMT produce the same experiences as DBEs and NDEs. Perhaps the body releases a similar substance near death.” Again, since some of the DBErs are neither sick nor near death (as in shared death experiences), why would their bodies release such a substance? But secondly, studies of the DMT experience show vast dissimilarities. When someone tells me that DMT produces near-death experiences, I assume that they mean something to the effect of this: someone takes DMT, then looks down on her lifeless body and realizes she has left her body. She travels through a tunnel and contacts a being of light who reviews her life, then talks to an angelic creature about whether or not to return. Instead, reading report after report of full DMT experiences shows an incredibly different (and incredibly varied) experience that overlaps in only a few ways. Here’s one DMT trip as an example (reworded to consolidate): ________________________________________________ Took DMT Room became a futuristic cartoon, with the surfaces becoming eyes My thinking brain shut off Two entities radiating love carried me away I entered a museum in hyperspace, with African caretakers guiding me through beautiful art A circus performer held up a hoop, saying repeatedly “I can do it and he can take it!” Moving toward a train station, I entered a vehicle and experienced a crazy roller-coaster ride Beings cheered me on, wanting to see me wriggle out of my body When got out of my body, like a snake shedding its skin, everyone cheered like I’d won a Super Bowl Entities open up cosmic glands in my head Jelly fish creatures ate away all my pain I saw a black hole in space with someone beside it that reminded me of “The Thinker.” I don’t know why he was there. Finally I found myself in a waterfall and realized that love and consciousness are woven together to create the universe. _________________________________________________ The climactic message for the DMT tripper, from the God or gods who created the universe is: “Our universe was created for consciousness to become aware of itself.” In the end, he thinks that this experience was inconsistent with atheism, but he has no clue what is going on in the universe. So comparing this DMT experience with NDEs and DBEs, they are incredibly different experiences. DMT gives what we might expect from a hallucinatory drug: random experiences that are much more vivid/realistic than a normal dream. Are they experiencing aspects of some other dimension or reality? Perhaps. Or perhaps it’s solely a hallucination. But I’m not seeing anything resembling the consistent straightforward global experience that I see with NDEs/DBEs. Another way to compare the two experiences is for a researcher to pull together the elements of multiple people on DMT that he’s studied. This “list of DMT experiences gleaned from Strassman (2001)” includes the following components. Those similar to NDEs are italicized: Vivid colors A Taj Mahal-like building A merry-go-round with people in 1890s outfits Clowns (very common) Circus imagery (very common) Emotional shock A sense of annihilation of person identity Feeling loved Gaining information Noetic quality (“realer than real”) DNA-like spirals Alphabet-like shapes Reptilian or insectoid alien beings High-tech machine-like objects Computer Board Ballroom Being on an operating table with “entities” examining the experiencer “Angelic singing” by “impersonal beings” Bright light Sense of separation from the body Programmed stick figures as in a video game Crocodiles raping and crushing an experiencer A great, impersonal power behind all things Hundreds of forms of beautiful women “Although some similar phenomena are common to both experiences, many unique phenomena characterize each of them.” But note that even the items deemed “similar” are often not a clear match. For example, certain NDErs mention seeing buildings, but I’ve never heard one describe one that looked like the Taj Mahal. “Angelic singing by impersonal beings?” Other-worldly beautiful music? Yes. Sung by impersonal beings? No. Similarly, the “great, impersonal power behind all things” is very personal in DBEs and NDEs. While I’ve selected DMT as an example drug that people suggest may trigger DBE/NDE esperiences, researcher Chris Carter concurs with my conclusion on other drugs, such as Ketamine. Furthermore, those who have done good literature reviews of the best NDE studies note that physical explanations such as anoxia, hypoxia, and drugs administered by physicians have all been controlled for in studies and found insufficient to explain the experience.

[@stevemiller6368]

After finding and reading the seven articles which provide the base for the claims in the rational wiki article, I can better assess whether or not the article fairly assesses the results of Thaler’s studies. According to the Rational Wiki: “Computational psychology experiments conducted by S. L. Thaler in 1993 [10] using artificial neural networks have shown that many aspects of the core near-death experience can be achieved through simulated neuron death and synaptic disruption.[11][12][13][14] In the course of such simulations, the essential features of the NDE-life review, novel scenarios (e.g., heaven or hell) and OBE are observed through the spontaneous generation of both true and false memories at first driven by synaptic fluctuations due to excess stress neurotransmitters such as adrenaline. In later stages of the NDE, confabulatory states result from a neural network's inability to differentiate dead from silent neurons.” Those four statements differ wildly from the nature and results of Thaler’s experiments. They make it sound like Thaler tried to simulate brain death activity in a computer program. When he did so, the article claims, the computer outputted elements of a near-death experience. Actually, Thaler did not try to fully emulate what the human brain does at death. Rather, he merely wanted to see what would happen if a simple computer program were shut down bit by bit. Interestingly, he found that the computer incorporated “virtual” information from past programming to try to make sense of the compromised data. Some of the output was garbled, but some of it indeed made sense. We’re talking sentences here, not aspects of NDEs. At the end of the study, Thaler hypothesized that something similar might happen when brains are compromised. Not having good input from the world, perhaps the brain invents its own input (like hallucinations) to try to make sense of the data. Yet, he admits that this is merely a hypothesis that would need to be tested by biologists on real brains. After all, a simple computer program is vastly different from the workings of the human brain. Two of the cited articles, referencing experts, agreed that that Thaler’s hypothesis using such computer activity to explain neuron death in the the brain was highly speculative. I want to make it clear that none of the output from the computer experiment was information about any aspects of near-death experiences, like life reviews or experiences of heaven and hell. He was just feeding information into the program and seeing what information may come out of an increasingly crippled system. The Rational Wiki article goes on to say, regarding Thaler’s experiments: “Memory-like neural activation patterns, whether related to direct experience or not, can be seeded upon arrays of such inactive brain cells, providing a purely mathematical basis for both NDEs and OBEs. In effect, the neural networks of the brain are interpreting their own internal damage, successfully or not, at an ever increasing rate, giving the impression of eternity as attendant neural networks of the cortex become sufficiently damaged that they fail to distinguish the neurologically-induced fantasy from reality. Within this so-called "death dream", the most habituated beliefs and expectations of the individual are played out.” Once again, none of this was found in Thaler’s study. This seems to be based upon an article where Thaler did a thought experiment (an imaginary “what if?”) about a simple creature and what his brain might do were it to become increasingly dysfunctional. Additionally, he wrote an article trying to tie NDEs into a naturalistic evolutionary scheme. Now we should welcome any hypothesis concerning the origin and meaning of NDEs, which is why I’m glad that people like Thaler are given space to publish naturalistic thought experiments in the Journal of Near-Death Studies. But if some would like to develop that hypothesis into a full-blown theory, they would need to show that the details of the hypothesis lines up with the data gathered so far in near-death studies. Here are some ways his hypothesis fails to account for NDEs as we’ve come to understand them: 1) Cases like Pam Reynolds and studies like Sabom’s find NDErs experiencing things outside the body when their brains were unconscious. This and 10 or so other marks of authenticity (see my book on NDEs) would not be predicted if people are merely experiencing death dreams/hallucinations. 2) In shared death experiences, the experiencers do not have dying brains. 3) The astoundingly consistent NDE pattern shouldn’t occur if the death dreams are caused by people’s varying expectations at death. Thaler’s hypothesis implies that NDEs should differ widely from culture to culture and belief system to belief system. 4) Thaler’s computer experiments found the output to be more and more defective the more the program was damaged. Why do NDEr’s find their minds on hyperdrive (more effective than normal) when they should be the most compromised? 5) Why would not Alzheimer’s patients and others with long-term deteriorating brains experience the same NDE elements over time, rather than just prior to death? 6) Since children from different backgrounds (some secular, some spiritual) shouldn’t have deeply ingrained thoughts about the afterlife, why would their NDEs be consistent with adults? So how could the authors of that section of the RationalWiki have gotten Thaler’s research so wrong? I don’t like to assume the worst: like someone just made it all up. Rather, I think that this is typically the result of a “Woozle,” where someone reports on a study and someone else reports the report in slightly different words and then someone repeats a report from memory, and finally the reporters begin quoting each other. Somewhere in the process, writers stopped looking at the original studies. Hopefully this section of the RationalWiki will be updated and corrected in the future.

[@jesusfan8504]

The continuation of Life is REAL indeed..where we experience the Light and Love of Jesus who will be with us and our loved ones...Always.

[@billerickson5604]

Greetings JESUSFAN . Would you say that salvation is only for those who believe or do you believe in universalism(all will be saved)?

[@godisreal4478]

@@billerickson5604 The Bible says for everyone to work out their own salvation. Philippians 2:12. So it is personal belief in God. But on the other hand, I believe God in His great love and mercy allows people to have second chances. And that is a BIG blessing. Most people don't have that chance. God states in His Word that Heaven can only be obtained through accepting Jesus's Cross. Jesus is the ONLY WAY. This is just by faith. Eternity is forever, I would love to spend it with God than eternity without God.

[@billerickson5604]

@@godisreal4478 I agree . But "JESUS FAN" statement seemed to suggest Jesus being with ALL so I wondered if he held to universalism. God bless u , thanks for sharing!

[@annaschouwerwou5384]

I am not saying this cannot be, but i have a few concerns; [1] in 2 Cor 12 Paul talks about a man that was caught up in Paradize [ learned men think it was himself when he was stoned] and he was not permitted to tell what he saw. [2] people in the newage speak of "astral projection" where their soul travels out of their bodies [3] and some people had experiences where aliens transported them from out of their homes/etc. See book by Gary Bates - Alien Intrusion. Is there a distinction between what christians and non christians experience ??

[@stevemiller6368]

Thanks for your concerns; these are issues that need to be addressed. 1) Indeed Paul was told not to tell what he saw. Perhaps this particular vision was something meant only for him. But this verse doesn't state that "nobody who has a vision of heaven should tell what he/she saw." In fact, other biblical figures who saw visions of heaven told what they saw and were apparently directed to tell what they saw (see Stephen in Acts 7, Isaiah told to tell about the heavenly scene he witnessed (Isaiah 6) and John (Revelation 4). 2) Good point. I wouldn't want people to think that since the spirit seems to leave the body in an NDE that we should therefore pursue astral projection or seances to meet with deceased relatives. Even if some of these are indeed leaving their bodies or putting us in touch with the dead, it's one thing for God to give us a vision/NDE, but quite another to try to manufacture such experiences, especially since the Bible teaches that there are both benevolent and malevolent beings on the other side. 3) For the true Christ-follower who's living a life of empathetic service, the life review should be very different from a person who's lived a selfish life that continually ignored or hurt others. Also, distressing or hellish NDEs are well-documented in NDE literature.

[@DavidSandyOfficial]

Naturalism to me completely disregards the amazing miracle of life. Prior to birth we only existed in the mind of God. Have people forgotten what it means to be a little child and have faith like a child?

[@samdanner6806]

Spot-on David!!!!!!

[@kennethmeeker6369]

I experienced a spirit right before I found my wife on the floor in the bedroom it entered me scared away what I assume as two other spirits out of my mind that I thought was me talking to myself in my head , I was frozen and shocked for a couple of minutes then when in to tell my wife and she had passed away . Not sure if this is a form of NDE or if it’s happened to others

[@stevemiller6368]

It may have been what researchers call a “shared death experience,” where people in the deathbed area experience part of a the deathbed experience of the person who died.

[@thetruthwillsetyoufree4747]

I spoke up from a poem that I wrote on my memory died I had mentioned it I want to comment on some video I don’t even remember which one talking about my grandma and she’s reflecting back and she was a woman of few words very gentle woman and God bless her soul she’s up there with my baby but she came to me after that and I mentioned her soft kiss on my cheek she’s the one who taught me that there was beauty in the world of people just stay still long enough to see it and she did that basically on our lap with showing me the birds The birds she used to feed in this beautiful red bird it was a cardinal I’m gonna don’t now so I know what it is would come and buy her doing that the message that I got I didn’t know it as a little girl but when I get older is she used to put a finger to a lip and shush me and tell her and said be quiet and when she did that by her doing that gesture it taught me that I could find beauty in the world if I stay still long enough to see it and that’s the message and I mentioned her kissing on my cheek and then she that night She came to me and you softly kiss me on the cheek and and and she spoke to me she said she just come here to softly kiss me on my cheek and she smiled at me but but there was another spirit with her it was a little girl and she was giggling like that part I don’t know I don’t know who that little girl was I have no clue who was with my money to this day but she came they both came to me in Spirit

[@SonOfHutch]

Two questions I have from all of the NDE I have heard. Doesn’t it correspond to scripture? If this happens to anyone believer or not saved or not, then it does not line up with scripture therefore… could it be “ satan appearing as an angel of light” so to speak, to deceive the living?

[@stevemiller6368]

Those are two good questions to ask. I'd also ask, "does it yield good fruit?" And I'd ask these questions about each experience, rather than trying to relegate all such experiences to either the "from God" or "from Satan" category. Just as some visions may be from God and others from Satan or from mental illness, so some preaching may be from any of those sources. I'd suggest that the same can be said of NDEs/DBEs. My latest book seeks to look much more deeply at comparing the Scriptures to the best of NDE/DBE studies.

[@thetruthwillsetyoufree4747]

Yeah well I was above my body I looked down at my limp body being choked by a man I was dead I left my body and then I traveled I like to call it like that at a different dimension it was a spiritual dimension but I was 100% awake I seen my surroundings in that dimension and I seen everything going on and I’m still choking me and I die I was so confident today I didn’t want to go back I would’ve never came back there other dimensions but he wouldn’t let me go to those he said those are for for when you return I couldn’t go to those

[@billerickson5604]

Who do u think "he" was?

[@jenniferzingalie8006]

What I don’t understand is (1) if it’s a real experience why don’t they realize who God truly is? and (2) if they experience heaven, why would they want to leave heaven to come back to earth?

[@stevemiller6368]

1) What they tend to experience is a God of Love who seems to know everything. That sounds like the biblical God. 2) Indeed, most don't want to leave. Some reluctantly ask to come back because they feel they're needed by others, not because they'd be happier on earth.

[@pattyclifton7905]

@@stevemiller6368 I have listened to more NDE accounts then I can tell you about and read about many many as wel. And I wonder why, as a Christian, you don't see the obvious. MOST accounts speak of seeing angels, or beings of light, speak of seeing dead loved ones as well, and speak of being unconditionally loved and NOT judged, but being forgiven for everything they ever did wrong. This should be a red flag since that's not what Christianity teaches. It teaches God is love yes, but not that everyone will be forgiven unless they repent and accept Christ as their Savior and Lord. And in MANY accounts, they say we all our part of God, and that God is love and light and we ALL become part of this love and light! Since Christianity does NOT teach this, I think you must consider that many, if not most, of these accounts are produced by Satan, who comes as an angel of Light! He shows a lot of truth in the counterfeit NDE HE produces, such as God being Love and Light, but then he deceives people by saying that God loves unconditionally and judges no one and all will be forgiven them! The people DO come back from the experience changed, in a good way, as far as becoming more loving and compassionate, but THAT is not enough to get us into heaven according to Christianity. So either Christianity is true, and these are counterfeit NDES, or they are TRUE, and Christianity is not. It cannot be both ways. But 90 percent of all accounts I have listened to on u tube, or I have read about, say nothing about Jesus. Instead, they speak of everything else I just mentioned. Please consider these facts, or I fear MANY will be led away from Christianity, to believe that they will go to heaven no matter how they live their life.

[@pattyclifton7905]

Jennifer Zingalie I am SO glad you posed this question! I believe that Satan, who comes as an angel of light, may be who is giving these people a counterfeit NDE. Because these people are not shown the God of the Bible in most NDE accounts. Only a few speak of seeing or talking to Jesus. But what nearly ALL have in common, is that they say, they are spoken to by an angel of light and are told they are loved unconditionally and will be forgiven of everything they have ever done wrong, and, will never be judged. AND, in most accounts, they say that THEY become part of the Light. They say they become part of what they call God. Is this what Christianity teaches? Or is this a lie of the devil? They DO say they come back to their bodies changed forever, to start being loving and compassionate people, and that's great. But if they are good people, is that all God wants? Not according to Christianity. So either they are right in saying that God is love and judges no one after death, or Christianity is right in saying that after we die, we are judged and that no one comes to the Father, but by way of Jesus. It's one or the other, is it not?🤔

[@stevemiller6368]

@@pattyclifton7905 Patty, I agree that a certain subset of these experiences are either lies from the other side, lies by the people themselves, exaggerations, or the result of hallucinations that they have confused with a true NDE. You especially see these if you just read random reports of NDEs in books people are trying to sell of their own experiences or places where people randomly report their experiences. But what I did was to go into the reports by people who were being questioned by legitimate researchers where the people reporting seemingly had no reason to exaggerate or make things up. You said, "But what nearly ALL have in common, is that they say, they are spoken to by an angel of light and are told they are loved unconditionally and will be forgiven of everything they have ever done wrong, and, will never be judged. AND, in most accounts, they say that THEY become part of the Light." I can say that in my study of the studies of NDEs I did not see unbelievers claiming that everything would automatically be forgiven, much less "ALL" claiming this. Also, I don't see people in these studies saying that they become one with the Being of Light. Instead, they are very much aware of their own identities as separate from the Being of Light. I'm glad to see your caution by not naively believing everything you hear from people about their reports from the other side. But I think the majority of reports are consistent with Scripture. I think we need to look at each experience and evaluate them in the same way that we'd evaluate anyone who claimed to have a vision about anything. To say that all are of the devil or that all are legitimate would seem to me to go beyond what we're told in Scripture. Don't you think?

[@thetruthwillsetyoufree4747]

You got that right I can’t wait to go home my purpose here as for the lord only and I don’t even know what that full purposes he hasn’t revealed everything

[@jthono]

There aren't any links to get the books and there aren't even the names of the books listed in the description. 🤷🏽‍♂️

[@SeanMcDowell]

Sorry! Here’s his book title: Near-Death Experiences as Evidence for the Existence of God and Heaven: A Brief Introduction in Plain Language

[@jthono]

@@SeanMcDowell thank you so much brother!!

[@jasonengwer8923]

Christians shouldn't place all near-death experiences (NDEs) in one category in terms of their veridicality. Some can be of a more subjective nature while others are of a more objective nature. J. Steve Miller made a lot of good points during the program, but he didn't say enough about some of the more subjective, inconsistent, and anti-Christian aspects of many NDEs. If you go to a source like Jeffrey Long's database of NDEs, you'll find ones that involve: a person in heaven in a wheel chair and Jesus with a female God; an atheist whose NDE involves no God or any other authority figure, in which she gets to meet a musician who's her "idol"; one involving "a very bright multi-colored figure, almost like a cartoon character and similar to the Joker on a deck of playing cards"; etc. NDEs in India often involve Hindu gods, mistakes being made by heavenly authorities in the afterlife, so that people have been brought there mistakenly, etc. NDEs and deathbed experiences aren't just religiously diverse, but also morally diverse. A study of the deathbed experiences of felons in Angola, "a maximum security prison that has been called the bloodiest prison in America", found that "the dying prisoners saw and experienced the same things as the general population…Only one account was given for a distressing experience for a patient." Nancy Evans Bush has noted that "Besides, some persons have had painful and radiant experiences in quick succession with no noticeable change of heart between them, and occasionally experiences will begin with peace and happiness then become painful, or vice versa'" (in Janice Miner Holden, et al., edd., The Handbook Of Near-Death Experiences [Santa Barbara, California: Praeger Publishers, 2009], 76). I think NDEs are generally something like a supernatural dream or supernatural virtual reality, a state the soul enters when prematurely released from the body by some unknown mechanism. It doesn't follow that every NDE is of that nature. One or more could be some sort of highly objective foretaste of the afterlife, whether it involves traveling there, so to speak, a vision, or whatever else. But it seems that most NDEs are of a highly subjective nature, so that we can't determine much about the afterlife from them. The evidence we have from NDEs has to be combined with the evidence we have for Christianity, relevant philosophical considerations, and so on. We can't just isolate NDEs and form our view of the afterlife based solely on them. If anybody is interested, I have a database of articles on NDEs and other paranormal subjects from a traditional Evangelical perspective. You can find it by doing a search for "An Evangelical View Of Near-Death Experiences And Related Phenomena" at a site called Triablogue. The articles there address NDEs, apparitions of the dead, poltergeists, and other paranormal issues.

[@AlexADalton]

Can you point me to some NDEs that involve Hindu gods?

[@SeanMcDowell]

Jeffrey Long has some very helpful resources. Thanks for citing the sources here.

[@dco8886]

I think their interpretation of what they saw and feel has a lot to do. They try to explain it away. Dr. William Guy also has a nice perspective of why this is.

[@jasonengwer8923]

Alex, I won't include links here, since that might prevent my response from getting posted or cause a delay. I'll describe my sources without using links. As I've mentioned in discussions we've had about NDEs before, I think the context in which a figure in an NDE appears is highly significant. If a figure is perceived as a Hindu god, and the environment in which the figure appears has distinguishing characteristics traditionally associated with Hinduism, I think the figure in the NDE probably was meant to be perceived as a Hindu god. There's no need for the figure to explicitly identify himself that way. The context in which he appears is evidence for his identity, as are other factors (e.g., the sense the experiencer had about who the figure was). In one of our discussions of NDEs at Triablogue, you wrote, "One NDEer in this study [of NDEs in India], Gowramma, reports being taken to the god of the dead who 'looked into the books and told the messengers, 'Send her back; she still has not completed her time'.'" (May 29, 2011 post in a thread titled "Dream-Like Aspects Of Near-Death Experiences") Penny Sartori wrote, "I also came across someone who had a childhood NDE and saw a figure she did not recognise and had no concept of at her young age. It was many years later that she recognised the figure as a God from Eastern religions whom she had never been exposed to before." (January 28, 2013 post in a thread at her blog titled "Frightening or Unpleasant Near-Death Experiences") You can find other examples online (e.g., search for "Life after Death: Near-Death Experiences of Hindus" at the Sanskriti web site). Todd Murphy wrote an article you can find online, titled "Near-Death Experiences in Thailand", and it has some relevant content. It focuses on the Buddhism of Thailand, but there are connections to Hinduism, and it provides examples of how non-Christian religious themes are present in these NDEs in a variety of ways (beliefs about monks and temples, the role of Yama in the afterlife, etc.). There are explicit references to Buddha, Yama, reincarnation, Dharma, Indra, Brahma, etc. Farnaz Masumian wrote, "Likewise, Indian subjects have, at times, described meeting religious figures such as Yamraj, another term for Yama (Kellehear 1993) or Sakkhthi, a Sanskrit term for 'Holy Power' (Pandarakalam 1990)." (in Janice Miner Holden, et al., edd., The Handbook Of Near-Death Experiences [Santa Barbara, California: Praeger Publishers, 2009], 161) Elsewhere in the same book, Allan Kellehear wrote, "Finally, these NDE reports [from India] included observing religious figures and deceased beings in a supernatural world with features that resembled the traditional view of the 'other realm.'…the figures observed in this world are those suggested by traditional Indian or Chinese mythology." (140) And, as I mentioned earlier, Hindu gods aren't all that are relevant here. I gave the example of somebody encountering a figure like the Joker in a deck of cards and the example of an atheist whose NDE had no authority figures and was of a highly trivial nature. I've come across similar accounts in contexts somewhat related to NDEs (deathbed visions, acquiring paranormal knowledge of another person's death, etc.), such as an experience somebody reported of encountering the Grim Reaper (Patricia Pearson, Opening Heaven's Door [New York, New York: Atria Books, 2014], approximate Kindle location 1425).

[@AlexADalton]

@@jasonengwer8923 Thx much for the citations. My memory is not the greatest and I had actually forgotten that we had a discussion around this specifically on your blog. I definitely agree with your overall point on hallucinatory/subjective aspects of NDEs. I suppose I would lend less credibility to the contextualized interpretations of the beings seen in NDEs, coming from all camps - Christian or otherwise. The Yamadutas in the Hindu NDEs that check the books and send people back would be an obvious Hindu interpretation of any being performing such a function, but I have come across Western accounts of this experience, only interpreted in a Christian manner (angels looking in the Book of Life, etc.). The quote from P. Sartori is a great example of something I'd be more inclined to see as an example of later re-intepretation/re-assimilation into a religious/cultural framework. On the Christian side, I've seen many examples of Western NDEs interpreted as encounters with Jesus, where the basic phenomenology of the experience is really just around a "being of light", yet the Christian "just knew" it was Christ. I lend more credence to accounts where the being is said to specifically communicate their identity, espec. upon request. Obviously parsing these can be difficult, as much or all of the info. in NDEs is communicated via some mode often described as a "feeling" or "emotional impressions". Complicating matters for me further, in that I think it lends a potentially more universalist aspect to NDEs and further trivializes some of these identity attributions, is that I have read several accounts where it is communicated that a being experienced in an NDE has specifically taken on a form that the NDE'er can relate to. I hope all is well with you and glad to see you're still keeping up with your research. I was very sad to hear about Steve's passing.

[@ariah5093]

Just found this channel. Can't waiiit to dive in! lol

[@Zumbamom]

Loved 🥰 this video thank you

[@pamelawomack1674]

What about NDE's which are not Christian eg Nancy Rynes' experience, which has caused her to expouse universalism?

[@sunnydaze1185]

Exactly...this is why I have been skeptical about this subject. False light beings ( & s*tan himself) can masquerade as “angels of light.” This can be used to lead others AWAY from the one, true G od and b ible. There are a lot of nde’s out there that sound like this is what happened.

[@stevemiller6368]

@@sunnydaze1185 I agree with your recommendation of caution. Even if most people's NDEs are caused by God, we should assume that there will be counterfeits as well. That's why we should "test the spirits" instead of believing everything we hear. Dr. Sabom studied his patients who experienced NDEs and found them reading their Bibles more, praying more, attending church more. But a miraculous experience doesn't force one be open to God. Many who saw Jesus' miracles first hand refused to believe. I think we should avoid the two extremes: 1) They're all of the devil 2) They're all of God. In the first instance we may be attributing the work of God to the devil. In the second instance we open ourselves to believing the devil masquerading as an angel of light

[@lee-lee2418]

As long as it is only "near" because scripture says: "It is appointed unto man once to die and after this the judgment." (Hebrews 9:27) and John 3:13 - "No one has ascended to heaven but He who came down from heaven, that is, the Son of Man who is in heaven." PLUS as the Apostle Paul was not to boast about what he saw in Heaven referenced in II Corinthians 12. I'm glad I have something to look forward to on this earth and wouldn't want to know beforehand 😉.

[@stevemiller6368]

Lee-Lee, Thanks for wrestling with how these experiences might relate to Scriptures! I agree that both near-death and deathhbed experiences are BEFORE our final death, so that we don't expect to hear reported all the things that the Scriptures say to expect after our FINAL death. On John 3:13, those with a high view of Scripture wouldn't think that Jesus is saying that "nobody has ever, or will ever see heaven before they die." Otherwise, the experiences of Elijah ascending to heaven (2 Kings 2) and Stephen seeing heaven in a vision before his martyrdom (Acts 7) and Paul's experience (II Cor. 12) would contradict it. Studying John 3:13 in its context indicates to me (and other commentator's I've read) that Jesus was underscoring his authority to speak on matters of salvation because He gets His teaching directly from God the Father. He seems to be saying that He "has ascended" (past tense, not His future ascension) in the sense that He's communicating directly with the heavenly Father. People who have NDEs report conversations about their personal lives, but the pattern shows that they don't come back with new doctrines. Paul's experience seems in many ways like an NDE. Indeed, in his case he was instructed not to tell the content of the vision. But that may not be the case for everyone. Stephen indeed told of his heavenly vision. John (in Revelation) and Ezekiel wrote about their heavenly visions in the Scriptures. Thus, it seems that Paul's instruction to not tell about his vision or out-of-body experience (he said he didn't know the nature of it) were not an expression of a general pattern to be expected in all such experiences.

[@sethtrey]

You should look into PEAR (Princeton Engineering Anomalies Research) Labs, or ICRL. They dealt with thisnsome, I think, and a bunch of other stuff. Maybe you could talk to Dean Radin.

[@stevemiller6368]

Thanks for the tip!

[@Zumbamom]

My grandma years ago was pronounced dead and she lifted up out of her body. She said she heard incredible music and then heard a voice ask - do you want to stay or go back and she thought’ I have 3 kids’ and ahe was back in her body

[@SeanMcDowell]

Wow!

[@Nunya1387]

Was she a Christian when it happened?

[@stevemiller6368]

Marcia, that is so common, and yet so impactful! I didn't get to mention that many of my students, when I'm teaching religion at a public university, tell about such phenomena that they've seen. If she's still alive, I'd ask her a bit more about her experience: "Was it extremely real, unlike a typical dream? Tell me more about the music." Often, people are glad to have someone taking them seriously and are glad to have some affirmation about their experience.

[@HumanimalChannel]

How would the existence of the HOLOGRAPHIC universe impact on NDE?

[@colleennewell3264]

Descent into Death is an amazing testimony of an atheist turning to Christ when he was saved from death.

[@richardhunter132]

Imagine if dreaming wasn't a common experience. When someone fell asleep and had a dream: when they woke up, they might well think they'd had some sort of supernatural experience - perhaps that they'd visited some other 'realm'. With NDEs, they don't happen very often. I personally think they're just the phenomenon that occurs when your brain is dying. People think they're amazing because they have never had them before, but really they're just sort of dreams. I would have hoped that Miller would have presented the very best example of an NDE that he could. if this is the Pam Reynolds case, then there really isn't any good evidence at all. The most significant part of that story is that Reynolds describes seeing one of the surgeon's tools and saying that it looked like an 'electric toothbrush'. Personally, that doesn't seem that astonishing to me; but that's the BEST that he's got.

[@stevemiller6368]

Thanks for your candid opinion. I try to avoid concentrating on individual cases, but rather the studies of thousands of cases and what we learn from them. I do think that the Pam Reynolds case has strong evidential value, given that Sabom, a respected academic cardiologist took time to gather the details from the primary source physicians, etc. When I look carefully at those many details as presented by Sabom, it is quite and astounding case in many details: 1) The surgeon's tool was quite distinct--not the typical you assume a surgeon would use. It was so unusual that Sabom wasn't even familiar with it and had to look up the manual for it. 2) She heard very distinct conversations that took place when from every indication, she couldn't have been conscious. And these conversations were corroborated. 3) Even if her brain did have some minimal consciousness (although all blood had been drained from her head, etc.) she had those devices bombarding her ears with constant clicks to monitor her brain stem. To me, it's a pretty dramatic case. Regarding the results of studies of NDEs, over and over they find (just read the summaries of results to date as contained in 1) my book 2) The Handbook of Near-Death Experiences 3) The Science of Near-Death Experiences 4) Pim van Lommels latest summary, etc. and you'll find that the best studies over the past 45 years have tested for the naturalistic explanations (hypoxia, pain-killers and other drugs, DMT - like chemicals that might naturally be produced by the brain at the time of death, etc., and found them not to explain the experience. So for me, a dozen or so lines of evidence are more consistent with the afterlife hypothesis than the dying brain hypothesis, as I describe them in my book on NDEs. A similar number of lines of evidence, to me, point to DBEs being better explained by the afterlife hypothesis. (Example: Many of these phenomena are being experienced by people who are not dying, but in some way share the experience with the dying.) I'm sure you could give more detail on your position as well, but I wanted to clarify my data and line of reasoning. Thanks again for your comments!

[@richardhunter132]

@@stevemiller6368 I can't agree that the Pam Reynolds case is particularly compelling, but thanks for taking the time for replying all the same.

[@stevemiller6368]

@@richardhunter132 And thanks again for your candid opinion. I find that among my students, what one considers compelling, another doesn't. It's important for all of us to see how others see the evidence. So I appreciate your candid response!

[@cynthiamarble8384]

angels don’t have wings, when we see an angel with wings, it is because we expect it.

[@agentjs09]

As far as we know.

[@honkytonk4465]

Why would angels need wings that makes no sense at all

[@scottburell8261]

So in any of these documented NDE’s, people only see angels and loved ones (and some see Hell), but do any of them claim to see Jesus? And if so, what is said or shown? Would be curious to know how these experiences line up (or not) with scripture.

[@stevemiller6368]

Scott, yes, some report seeing Jesus. In the typical NDE, Jesus and angels and deceased relatives don't get chatty about specific doctrine and such. Much like with the Apostle Paul's vision that led to his salvation, he was told to go meet with Christians to work out the specifics. So I see these as more general revelation: letting people know that 1 - There's an afterlife 2 - God exists and is good and just 3 - the way you live your life (despise people versus love people) matters. God tends to show Himself as kind/loving to both those who are following Him and those who are not, much like Jesus came across to sinners when He was on earth. Since "the kindness of God leads us to repentance," this makes sense. If they have a life review, they understand their faults, so why would God need to yell at them? I think the experience should lead people to seek, and if they seek, according to Jesus, they will find.

[@thetruthwillsetyoufree4747]

I’m fascinated with the afterlife and fascinated that there’s a bigger picture are used to believe in God and Jesus at least I thought I did I had faith and hope that there was and just growing up was scary for me and I was taught that we had a punishing God so I always had fear he’s actually a very loving God and a forgiving for I would’ve never known if death was just death and I think its crazy and I don’t fully fully understand the entire concept of what’s happening happening in the end and what exactly I became once I died at 100% and understand the logic of my experience but I could never ever explain the house in the in the wising who is this God and was a such a thing before God I always ask myself these questions well if he created us who created him I would say kind of like the chicken was did he become of existence to make us into existence and those are the questions I ask you guys are on another level I’m on a higher level I want I already know the things that you don’t know and and is still skeptical about it well I wanna know and beyond that I I I don’t even have to research that part I experienced it I want to know about the stuff I don’t now and is there anybody in this world that knows more than I know those are the things I want to know about this it’s just surface BS I already know The things that you guys are questioning and trying to figure out why I stop at I don’t need to figure that out I know that stuff happens so now I want I want to figure out and I don’t know if that’s disrespect for my Lord I am but I like to know of his existence more and how did he become that or I don’t get it those are the questions I want answered I wish I thought of all these questions were there maybe he wouldn’t of answered

[@mrsq117]

Please may I ask have you had a NDE

[@GeertKok]

Had a negative experience not very positive. Communication with evil spirits without words. Left depressed afterwards and it led me to God. Jesus

[@stevemiller6368]

Thanks for sharing your negative experience, which you turned into a positive outcome. I had a negative experience as well, while I was a committed Christian. I now see it as an attack of the enemy, but I didn't tell anyone at the time because I was afraid that it wasn't edifying. Now I wish I'd been more open. If Jesus was personally tempted by the devil, why should we think it odd that we might experience demonic attacks?

[@thetruthwillsetyoufree4747]

I was the fear death before I died I don’t fear it at all I actually welcome it for that in itself is amazing it’s just absolutely beautiful there is no sin there there’s no pain and sorrow there’s no suffering just beauty peace ☮️

[@angelblessings1111]

In your experience did you find that past life Karma affects our current lives?

[@aleethanone6904]

well i used to not be alive but now i am. i don't remember before i was alive.

[@Mark-cd2wf]

Great video. I had never heard of Dr. Miller before this and he’s really good. I do have a theory as to why God might be allowing so many of these experiences to come to light in our modern, skeptical age. One is to disprove naturalism. Second, to combat two pernicious lies that I’ve been hearing a lot lately. The first is that Hell will be fun (“All my friends will be there!”). The second is that Heaven will be boring (“One long, unending church service!”). I know that this video didn’t dwell much on the negative NDEs, but they are out there, and they are as terrible an account as the positive ones are wonderful. Just sayin’.....

[@RobbDepp]

Thank you for this feedback, it was very insightful.

[@stevemiller6368]

Mark, thanks for your comment. Yes, negative NDEs are well established in NDE studies, called "hellish" or "distressing" NDEs. While they are reported in a minority of cases, Cardiologist Maurice Rawlings said that one of his patients had a "hellish" experience and subsequently didn't remember having it. Rawlings suggested that such experiences may be more common than reported, since patience may repress such memories.

[@Mark-cd2wf]

@@RobbDepp 😁👍

[@Mark-cd2wf]

@@stevemiller6368 Yes, I believe that was Rawlings’ first encounter with an NDE. He was performing CPR on the man when he began screaming “Don’t stop!” Usually they say, “You’re hurting me.” Then the man screamed, “I’m in Hell!” “You mean you’re afraid of going to Hell?” Rawlings asked. “No! No! I’m _in_ Hell!” Dr. Rawlings looked at the man and said later he had never seen such a look of terror on anyone’s face before. “Tell me how to stop being in Hell!” “I’m not a preacher,” said Rawlings as he continued his frantic efforts. “I guess you just pray a prayer I learned in Sunday school: ‘Jesus, forgive my sins and come into my heart, and if you do I’ll be hooked on you.’ “ As Rawlings was saying this, the man died again. Six times Rawlings brought him back to life, and yes, afterwards when he went to talk to the man in recovery about the experience, he couldn’t remember a thing. IMHO, it was simply too terrible an experience to bear , so God graciously removed it from his memory. If I’m not mistaken, I believe that same man became a Christian not long afterwards. Just sayin’......

[@stevemiller6368]

@@Mark-cd2wf Thanks for giving that fuller account from Rawlings. Those "hellish" NDE accounts need to be told as well as the heavenly visions.

[@GhostScout42]

i havent had an NDE but i think when we die, we all go to the begining of the end of time and we all get there at the same time