These Bands Have Messy Album Catalogs! (w/Martin Popoff)

[@mawrtea]

To me the poster child for this topic is Hawkwind, and y'all neatly steered clear of that mess! 😆

[@SD9xcp311x]

Totally!

[@luciusblackwood2640]

Yeah, it's so complicated you can't even explain it!

[@SD9xcp311x]

@@luciusblackwood2640 The whole Nik Turner/David Brock dicvide!

[@mikem.7921]

They had no clue what they were doing for obvious reasons 😅

[@SD9xcp311x]

@@mikem.7921 Suits me fine!

[@Michael_Birk]

On the flipside; Most 'tidy', almost systematic catalogue could be The Police. Short and concise with quality and with a natural progression from punkish pop, to almost progressive pop (in my mind anyway).

[@johnmichaelwilliams6694]

Popoff and Pardo are it again with some of the messy traits that bother them about some of the catalogues for bands. Always fascinating to listen to Martin and Pete dive into the topic of the week. The current personal messy issue of catalogues is the tendency of reissues to be in various configurations and sized boxes or packages that make it a challenge to store these items - particularly if your buying the CD versions. For examples, offer up the Jethro Tull anniversary "with book" reissues and the reissues that have to include LPs and CDs and thus require and album size storage arrangement when all that is really wanted is the CD. Storage is already often an issue and these types of matters - as much as they may be enjoyed - are not adding to the simplicity of adding the product to our collection. Enough of the personal rant. Thanks once again, gents, for taking the time to discuss your thoughts on this topic. There ya go!

[@DavysFlicks]

I absolutely want the book for the Tull reissues. That will be THE history of the band when it's said and done. If it was compiled it wouldn't be a cheap tome. Marillion's books are a bit more superfluous since you get a full length documentary with each one.

[@johnmichaelwilliams6694]

@@DavysFlicks Thanks for your response, Davy. I find myself getting the Tull ones as well. It’s just the shelves are not designed for all these variations and it makes me a tad cranky. Hope this finds you doing well.

[@johnmichaelwilliams6694]

@@dandesjardins3159 Thanks for letting me know. Read it and we're somewhat in sync.

[@shyshift]

Clearing up Chicago confusion because I love them since 1969 and they were my first concert. Chicago Transit Authority found out the band was using the name and threatened to sue unless they changed it so the second album was released as Chicago in 1970. There’s no 2 or II on the original lp because I just checked my Columbia lp and the record label on the vinyl says Chicago. The Live In Japan concert was never released in the USA on lp and the cd didn’t come out until 1996. Chicago’s Greatest Hits is Chicago IX. The Roman Numerals stop with Hot Streets (12) Chicago 13 is the first time they use the Arabic numbers then back to Roman numerals for XIV, Chicago’s Greatest Hits Vol. 2 is the 15th album. 16,17,18,19 stay consistent but then 20 is Greatest Hits 1982-1989 Then Twenty1 is released with a huge 1 and Twenty going vertical in the 1. Then they do something called Night & Day which is 1940’s big band Jazz standards. For their first Christmas album Chicago XXV was released in 1998. Chicago XXXVI is Now (2014) The latest studio album is Born For This Moment (2022) They are still going to this very day.

[@ingolfrvargr]

When I saw the title, my mind went immediately to Sabbat, Nunslaughter and the likes; ands who have tens, if not hundreds of releases. Just to take Sabbat (Jpn) for example: They have 9 studio albums, which is probably the least messy part of their discography. It's still messy in the way that most of them have multiple covers or different color of the same cover, depending on where (or when) they were released, plus Karisma was released both in English and Japanese language versions. But then there are the EPs, singles, splits, live albums and compilations...I don't know where to start! Some EPs are with new stuff, some are re-recordings of older songs, some different language versions of songs (Black Fire in particular... even has a Swahili version). Some live albums are releaaed in different parts (Shinjuku Incident part 1 and part 2), some live EPs in different formats (12", 2x7" and tape). And the split albums are usually previously unreleased live stuff, but some are found elsewhere... and then they have like 20 compilations to have all these non-album songs in the same place. Other bands with similarly super long catalogs are Nunslaughter, Abigail, Unholy Grave, Agathocles, Via Dolorosa, Senmuth (although most are full-lengths), Fucked Up, Merzbow and Buckethead, and Trhä seems to be heading into that same category as well. Just a jungle of EPs, singles, splits, comps and live albums with the occasional studio album thrown in there for good measure. That's the definition of what a messy catalog looks to me.

[@aleccopile]

I find Foreigner's catalog pretty messy in terms of lineup changes. They were a six-piece band for three albums, then for some reason it was reduced to four members while they had session players in the studio (one of whom played the sax part on "Urgent", which is an essential part of the song, but the guy wasn't an official member). Then Lou Gramm left the band, Johnny Edwards joined, recorded an album, the album flopped, Lou Gramm came back for an album, but they recorded it as a five-piece. Then there were quite a few lineup changes again and finally they recorded an album with only Mick Jones as the original member and it was recorded by a six-piece again.

[@robertvarisco2196]

That sax solo, which is stellar, was played by Jr. Walker.

[@jaycianfrini77]

Great episode! Cant wait for the Quadrophenia book Martin. I'll be looking out for it

[@chrissteiner4941]

The Stones come To my mind First, especially The 60s albums in its uk and US versions. Its quite tough to get a clear picture on their discography...great Show again!

[@wolf1977]

Same with The Beatles & The Who (and the Kinks) - to me that's expected considering the time period where a lot of 'Pop' acts are still focused on producing mainly singles & their record companies aggregate them into 'albums'...I still recall owning some of the 'shiny cover' Parlophone UK Beatles albums back when I still owned vinyl. 12 total Beatles studio albums in the UK & 17 in the US...and quite a few EP's

[@ExileOnMyStreet]

Yeah, my first thought was the Stones. US/UK versions, EPs, singles not included on the UK records, but the US records they were, milking the catalogue with superfluous records and adding songs and covers from all different sessions to stretch out the catalogue. Then you have the Flowers comp which was a hodgepodge of hits, deep cuts and unreleased tracks. In '79 you had Sucking in the 70s which was a 70s version of Flowers, no focus, songs seemingly chosen at random, then once the 90's rolled around it seemed there was a live album or two for every tour...What a mess...LOL..I almost forgot about Made in the Shade, yet another comp released in '75 that contained songs from only the previous 4 studio records.

[@karloberkovich]

@@ExileOnMyStreet Agreed, although Flowers is a great album, as compilations go (I"m in Canada, my sister had it when it first came out) and, interestingly, the UK audience didn't have songs like Sitting On A Fence or Ride On Baby until much later where the North American audience had them via Flowers, but all part of how it was then when the Brits tended not to release singles on albums, they came out separately, while in North America singles drove album sales hence the 'bastardization' of early Stones, Beatles, Kinks etc releases in North America. I have no explanation for Sucking In the 70s lol although I do have it, major Stones fan, have it for some live cuts...Made In The Shade was a response to the Allen Klein issued Metamorphosis ABKCO Records bizarre compilation also released in 1975 when the band, Klein and his label and US distributior ABKCO and UK's Decca were still fighting over the Stones' catalog, plus Made In The Shade was, since the Stones had no studio album of original material that year, released as a stop gap as they went on tour. Heresy then, quite common now hell the Eagles toured on their History of The Eagles DVD for crying out loud lol. so be it. Stones did it later with Forty Licks compilation, it's obviously long since been an accepted practice.

[@ExileOnMyStreet]

@@karloberkovich I had totally forgotten about Metamorphosis when I made my post. Add to the confusion...LOL..Flowers is one of my favorite Stones records, I think it's a great comp. that goes well with the UK version of Between the Buttons, which I prefer over the US version with the singles included.

[@sabbracadabra7503]

The original "Garage Days Revisited" EP contained only "Blitzkrieg" and "Am I Evil", which were eventually added to subsequent issues of Kill Em All. So when they did the EP with Newsted, it had to be "Re-revisited".

[@jeffreyrobinson9120]

The Grateful Dead with the "Dick`s Picks" and all the live albums and bootlegs; The different incarnations of the band with offshoots and solo albums, and the stylistic changes through the years, makes for a messy catalog.

[@nickvickers3486]

A messy catalogue, but a fantastic trip!

[@jeffreyrobinson9120]

@@nickvickers3486 Definitely, they kept it interesting.

[@wolf1977]

@@nickvickers3486 Long Strange Trip

[@dandesjardins3159]

I Was Thinking About the Dead For This Myself. Good call.

[@jeffreyrobinson9120]

@@dandesjardins3159 Thanks Dan.

[@atlasking6110]

The Sweet spring to mind. Just think if their label had released non-messy albums, the same in both the UK and the US, and with all the best tracks from both the singles and albums on them.

[@d.nakamura9579]

Both Ronnie Montrose and Ritchie Blackmore made regular lineup changes, including lead singers. I think it was to maintain control over the band and creative direction. I think Martin mentioned in one of his books that Ritchie says he did it to keep getting in new blood into the band.

[@kevinthetruckdriver353]

My bands with a messy catalog. *1)* Boston *2)* MSG (Michael Schenker Group / McAulley Schenker Group) *3)* Yes *4)* Blue Őyster Cult *5)* Guns 'n' Roses *6)* Greatful Dead *7)* Electric Light Orchestra *8)* Kansas *9)* Asia *10)* Deep Purple Honorable Mentions: Toto Pure Prairie League BTO (Backman Turner Overdrive) Queenswÿche Styx Lynyrd Skynyrd The Moody Blues Pink Floyd

[@EvanBNW]

I love The Allman Bros but I simplified my collection down to 4 live albums: Fillmore East (original version), First Set, Second Set, One Way Out.

[@ExileOnMyStreet]

Excellent! I have the Complete Fillmore Recordings box, but I find myself returning to the original more often.

[@interstellaroverdriven6450]

First band that comes to mind is the mighty Guided By Voices. Between Robert Pollard's compulsively prolific yet largely exceptional output, the number of related pseudonyms like Boston Spaceships, Ricked Wicky, Circus Devils, etc., and the obscure labels like Scat, Rockathon along with Matador and the more recent GBV records, it can be a frustrating yet rewarding task of tracking down the discography. GBV! GBV! GBV!

[@piscesempress1978]

LOVE GBV!! they are from my neck of the woods *Dayton, OH*

[@davidgasten4361]

Oh I don't even want to start with that discography. I do like the song "Radio Show (Trust the Wizard)" though.

[@independenceltd.]

Savage Grace came to mind. Different singers on each of their first three releases. Then the guitarist takes over on vox on the next three, and then a fifth lead singer when the reformed recently. 7 releases, 5 singers.

[@gratefulblac]

Jimi Hendrix live catalogue and post death releases are all over the place. Had he lived I am sure he would exerted a much greater quality control over what got released. Likewise exactly the same thing can be said for Bob Marley with umpteem greatest hits collections some of them of very poor quality. There are those artists that the catalogue is so big it becomes difficult and messy to organise them. Frank Zappa, Neil Young, the Grateful Dead, Todd Rundren and Utopia, are just some of the examples of difficulty sorting through their sections in the record shop or online.

[@wolf1977]

Agreed on Hendrix...Try Buckethead & solo Bill Nelson on for size...The Dead's live catalog is absolutely unmanageable (at least the 'unofficial' one)

[@dandesjardins3159]

Forgot About Hendrix In My Comment. Zappa For Sure!

[@ChromeDestiny]

In my digital Hendrix collection I break it down by The original albums, first phase posthumous albums, Alan Douglas headed posthumous albums and then Hendrix family headed posthumous albums.

[@wolf1977]

@@ChromeDestiny Plus the myriad boots...A friend of mine owns literally hundreds (I settle for my approx 80 total JH albums that includes some 'unofficial' releases) - most are foreign, and many with questionable sound and/or not much actual Hendrix included. One of the recent ones is More Mixdown Master Tapes (4 LP box set). Been hearing for a while about an impending 3 disk set that aims to set straight the material Jimi was working on when he died...Many may not have heard this but he produced (his only production credit) a '69 album called Sunrise by Irish rock band Eire Apparent & also plays on some tracks. Three interesting tracks: "The Clown", "Yes I Need Someone" & "Someone Is Sure To (Want You)"

[@truckerkevthepaidtourist]

Messy catalogs off the top of my head 1. Steve Miller 2. Chicago and all incarnations 3. Beatles definitely Between the UK and the USA releases and all the others that came along with it 4. Rod stewart (it's not quite the band LOL) 5. Todd Rundgren I'm sure this could change if I thought more about it but this is just what came off the top of my head thinking of discography

[@PetesCDVinylWorld]

Chicago is pretty straight forward numbered catalog, do they even have any B Sides?

[@davidgasten4361]

Todd Rundgren/Utopia is a good choice. When he gets into electronica he loses me; glad that the electronica crowd appreciates him though.

[@truckerkevthepaidtourist]

@@davidgasten4361 ya. It tends to get a little hard to keep everything on Todd in line

[@davidgasten4361]

@@truckerkevthepaidtourist Getting the Japanese mini-LP CD's helped me a lot. 18 Bearsville albums from 1970 to 1982 (studio and live, covering both Todd and Utopia); that wasn't so bad. You still have "Todd Rundgren's Utopia" (1974) and "Utopia" (1982); the two different versions of "Runt"; the "Oblivion" / "POV" period confusion; and a huge run of live albums to muck things up, but at least that helped.

[@StrappingOldLad]

Ace Frehley has a messy catalogue. Is the first album part of the Kiss discography or Ace's? Then you have a Ace Frehley-album called Frehleys Comet, followed by an album and an EP (both live and studio) by a band called Frehley's Comet, before going back to using his name again. There's also compilations released as Ace Frehley with a lot of Comet-material and a couple of cover albums.

[@Kim-st3xg]

Wish he would of kept the comet together, what music we could of had!

[@wernermoritz882]

Great weather report! I especially liked Pete‘s surprising look back to last week‘s weather in the Hudson Valley.

[@Drumdude74]

Good show guys, I waited until the end to make sure Martin was/wasn't going to pick, G'N'R. lol Glad you did though Martin, they were the first band that came to mind for me. So I'll pick, Riot instead. A band with a revolving door of members, the first 3 albums were with singer, Guy Speranza ( my 3 favorite ), then Guy left and Rhett Forester came in and did two albums, both lineups were basically good solid hard rock/early metal. Then you get Rhett leaving the band in '84, they sorta break up for a while, then they put out a speed/power metal album with, " Thundersteel " in '88, with a third singer named, Tony Moore. The next album, " The Privilege of Power " in '90, was metal fused with Martin's favorite instruments, horns. lol I actually like that album, it's not great but there is some cool stuff on it. Then in '93, they release another album with a 4th singer, Mike DiMeo called Nightbreaker, which had a cover of their early tune, " Outlaw " and a couple of covers ( Deep Purple's, " Burn " & Procol Harem's, " A Whiter Shade of Pale ". Then they did a concept/themed album about Native American history called, Brethren of the Long House in '95. They released a string of about 4 more albums between '96 & '06 with that lineup. Then in 2011 or so, Tony Moore came back as vocalist for one album, " Immortal Soul ". Mark Reale, the only original member left in the band, died in 2012, the band would hire the 5th official singer, Todd Michael Hall, who took over in 2013 and they changed the name to, Riot V. They've done two studio albums since as Riot V, one in 2014 and one in 2018 I believe. I like most of their material but the lineup changes have been a plenty and not consistent sounding style wise, so they're MESSY in that regard but like I said, I enjoy songs/albums from most eras of the band.

[@aquabot]

The first names that come to my mind are Zappa and Buckethead.

[@RonTalksRock]

Great show! Always happy to learn way more about Bands I don’t own much or anything from and you guys discussed a few! 👏

[@joshuacottton6985]

The Misfits, impossible to collect their material without buying the same songs twice. Also a lot of inferior re recorded versions Danzig did by himself after the band broke up. Wish the Stones sorted out the differences between their UK and US editions like The Beatles eventually did

[@ryanjacobson2508]

Should be a show on re-recordings, re-mixes, and insertion of alternate takes which aren't necessarily made clear on album packaging or even liner notes.... I'm thinking of ZZ Top and especially Megadeth (who labeled their 2004 re-issues as "re-masters" when Rust In Peace and SFSGSW used new mixes, alternate takes, and RIP even had new vocal tracks used because some of the originals had been lost).

[@metaldams78]

The Misfits were my first choice for the reason you mentioned.

[@griphfunk]

Honestly I want to go to a band themed camp now! Start it Martin!!!

[@christianhaynes1954]

Look forward to Friday funhouse with you guys . Makes my somewhat hard life much more bearable . Thanks guys

[@pablocruise9514]

Talk of Chicago brings back memories. In the early 70's I got invited to a party of a female classmate. She has just had her birthday and she showed off her gifts. One was the Chicago 4 albums. I knew of some double-albums but have never seen a quadruple-album and was blown away.

[@wernermoritz882]

For me The Stooges are the perfect example for this topic: first there is a slightly different band called Iggy & The Stooges which is kind of the same band, kind of not. Then they have three very different albums in their classic period, loads of semi official live and outtakes albums, then the reunion albums of both bands etc.

[@DavysFlicks]

I have to be a bit detatched and say Neil Young is pretty hard for even somewhat big fans but not diehards. So you get the Bootleg Series which is old shows....but that's not the same as the Performance Series...which is old shows. Or Archives....which is old shows, sessions and Unreleased albums. Or the Special Release series which is old albums and can be part of Archives. Or the contemporary live albums that aren't on a sub-labell, except when they are. I get the promos with PR releases, own everything three times over and even I have to put myself into a trance to get it straight...

[@saltofano337]

Great show Pete and Martin - Agree Pete with Allman Brothers with all their live albums and the many bootlegs . Here are my top choices 1. Allman Brothers 2. Frank Zappa 3.Grateful Dead 4. Crack the Sky 5. John Mayall

[@jasonberry6254]

Hearing Pete go through the Chicago discography was a real treat.

[@richardcrook2112]

Great video, interesting to hear you talking about these things.

[@bengthertzman9918]

Great show guys! For me number one messy catalog are the albums from Neil Young... I have one suggestion for a future show, maybe with Martin & Phil Aston. What about talking about bands with a long career and a very stable lineup or a few changes in the lineup and on the other side bands with constant changing lineups during a long career.

[@noheamike5036]

Several of the catalog aspects discussed could be applied to Neil.

[@karloberkovich]

Neil's catalog has become increasingly messy because he keeps releasing stuff archival and otherwise, who can keep up lol? Same with Van Morrison. I'm a big fan of both but they've become the novelist James Patterson of music, you wake up each day and there's another Patterson novel or Neil or Van album lol. I can't keep up and, sadly, have stopped trying although I recognize I'm likely missing some great stuff.

[@bengthertzman9918]

Totally agree with it comes to Van Morrison, to many albums and on some of them he goes on repeat. @@karloberkovich

[@dr.s.]

As someone who got into the Allmans late, I can tell you, it's a pain in the arse, fun but still a lot of pain. I knew a bit of their stuff before but never really did a deep dive, fortunately, I had Spotify which was really helpful to get an overview but it's still messy. Concerning the quality of their work, I think you are right Pete, their post 1990 catalog is just as strong as the early stuff. And it's the same with the live material. Even the album the remaining members did as The Brothers in 2020 sounds incredible.

[@stevepoleri7604]

A couple that come to mind. The Yardbirds. Some many variations of albums out there. My Bloody Valentine- Tons of EP’s and 20 years between albums. Totally onboard with Martin on flute in rock.

[@davidgasten4361]

MBV is a great choice! Not to mention that their earlier material is super rare and sounds completely different (really good though).

[@adrianjones5979]

AC/DC - Jailbreak, High Voltage, Dirty Deeds-what’s really what on original releases? Accept- which one is Accept S/T and I’m A Rebel? Still confused on that one.Diamond Head- Is it Lightning to the Nations or The White Album, and is this really the official first album or Borrowed Time? The Sex Pistols- everything after the first album. Hendrix discography reminds me of your views on the Allman Bros. Band. The Misfits discography.. What’s really the first Motörhead album?

[@davidgasten4361]

Good one with Diamond Head--I never did get that "Lightning to the Nations" business figured out. Same with AD/DC; I've been wanting to get "TNT" (import only) and the Aussie versions of the early albums forever and just never got to it.

[@ChromeDestiny]

The Angry Video Game Nerd had a video about how AC/DC's early discography confused him.

[@davidgasten4361]

@@ChromeDestiny It's a crezy one. I assume there's probably a video somewhere where someone makes sense of it all.

[@kevinthetruckdriver353]

Hey Pete. You forgot 4 Boston albums that I have. 1) A best of CD called Rock and Roll Band (cheap priced) songs from the first 2 albums from CBS. 2) A Greatest Hits album (1997) with 4 new songs that CBS & MCA put out. Total of like 16 songs. 3) A 2nd Greatest Hits album that Tom Scholz remastered in 2009 (he didn't like the sound of 1997 GH album). 15 songs. 2 new songs from 1997 album omitted. One song from Corporate A n erica added while Living For You from Walk On omitted. Greatest Hits 1997 version is no longer available. Only used. 4) Very rare bootleg CD. Has the original Boston 3 album Scholz was doing before scraping it. Better than their last 3 albums. But Third Stage was better. Also has demos of the debut with original song titles. There's akso a live Boston album from Philadelphia 1976 available as a download if your interested.

[@wolf1977]

...and King Biscuit (1977), Long Beach ('77), More Than A Feling Live (Japanese boot recorded in '76 I believe at the Agora/Cleveland) and Chasin' That Dream (Live Ohio '76) - also a live boot. The Dec 18 1976 Boston show at The Philly Spectrum also featured The James Gang & Foghat. The only "unusual" tracks from that show besides the usual suspects were "Shattered Images" & "Television Politician" which were also on the '77 King Biscuit set/More Than A Feeling Live. The whole show's also up on YT with pretty good sound...There are other Boston boots out there like Manitoba Summer Festival, Canada (1/8/2004) - very bad sound - and We Found It In The Trashcan Honest! (6 total tracks, 2 classics under different/'early version' titles-again cheesy sound). And other (probably 'unofficial') compilations like Italy's The Neverending Story from '93 (contains nothing new). I like the new track "Higher Power" from the '97 Greatest Hits package but "Tell Me" not so much. Technically "Star Spangled Banner" is also a 'new' track on the '97 version & was carried over to the remastered album...I thought Life Love & Hope and Corporate America were pretty good records

[@abe3802]

When a band change logo or style of album cover, you know everything isn´t all right in the band. That could be a coming topic for a show.

[@JarlStensson]

Yes for many bands, but not for Uriah Heep, they changed all the time to the Bernie Shaw era

[@ChromeDestiny]

Martin Popoff covered this on his Contrarians channel, there was a video on alternate band logos.

[@Jeffrey.Seelman]

I'm 63 years old, been to a lot of shows. Do not agree with you on the live concert opinions. Very often the live concerts sound better than the studio albums because they have played them 60 nights in a row and kind of get a feel for what the audience likes in different cities and countries. Also, what is the difference between a video concert and an audio concert? To me the only difference would be that they are aware that they are being videotaped. As long as the sound quality is great, I think it is a good and legitimate addition to the catalog. Too often so many great bands did not record entire tours, especially back in the 1970s and 80s. So much was lost. Bands like Pink Floyd were the first to admit their error in judgment. Another great show. Thanks.

[@wolf1977]

I have no problem with bands who issue multiple live albums. Preferably where the versions add to the studio versions - in other words not where the live take sounds exactly like the studio one (with audience noise added). Give me extra solos & different/longer versions

[@Jeffrey.Seelman]

Yes Wolf, I greatly agree with that. Something different than the studio version that is worth listening to.😀

[@grumqa]

Fun show. Surprised there were no honorable mentions. Expected to hear Sabbath, Purple, Sweet, Hawkwind, maybe Hendrix. Not really in the genres, but Sisters of Mercy and Joy Division might qualify too.

[@seaoftranquilityprog]

Well, we specifically wanted to do a show with no mentions of Sabbath, Purple, Yes, etc...can't talk about them every week.

[@wolf1977]

Hendrix's catalog is a mess no doubt - was one of my picks & actually one of the first that came to mind when I read this episode's subject line. Also Buckethead (who almost never gets mentioned here) with his 500+ 'Pikes'

[@nickvickers3486]

​@@seaoftranquilityprog great show guys! Also I think you've done well not mentioning those bands because album wise they're pretty darn solid - it's more the bands themselves that get messy. With Sabbath obviously the Ozzy era is connected but it peters out. 2 or 3 more Dio Sabbath albums in the 80s and that line up could have been the biggest metal band ever. And Sabbath with Tony Martin could have been bigger. Pete I have to thank you for turning me onto Tony Martin's Thorns album. I got it for Christmas and it's phenomenal! Personally I think one last hurrah for Black Sabbath, and they don't even have to use the name necessarily, would be Iommi and Martin teaming up for an album and a tour. The two Tonys, they could call it Tones of the Devil or something, these guys have never taken themselves to seriously... but joking aside it would kick ass big time!

[@grumqa]

@@seaoftranquilityprog Cool by me! I love the breadth you guys bring, especially since you and Martin seem to share my fondness for Nazareth. The Funhouse is always a good time. I suppose Yes has a pretty messy catalog too.

[@grumqa]

@@wolf1977 Of course, it's not his fault. I wish he'd lived long and had a chance to continue with whatever he wanted to do. Krokus is kind of a mess too, with some of it out of print, the first two albums being so different, and there's at least one spot where *nobody* from the previous record was in the band on the next record, which I think might be a unique situation. I don't think either Pete or Martin cares for Krokus all that much, but I like them.

[@motleyfan7558]

This is an excellent topic. You guys rule. So does Chris Alo

[@johnnyringo9759]

Meatloaf could have farted into a microphone, called it "Bat out of Hell 4," and it would have went platinum!!!

[@d.nakamura9579]

Maybe he just did

[@OMW66]

The Who is one of my favorite bands, and yeah guys, i always thought their catalogue was pretty messy. You know, what’s this and what’s that… chaos. And man, King Crimson… forget about it.

[@ChromeDestiny]

Another problem with The Who is if you go with CD, which pressings do you get? Different fans would give you different answers. If I made a guide to The Who's discography I'd call it The Simple Things You See Are All Complicated.

[@PetesCDVinylWorld]

The Who is very messy because their early singles were not on their albums so you have to buy various compilations to get all of the singles and b sides

[@wolf1977]

The Kinks too...

[@ChromeDestiny]

They even messed up their singles box set (but it's still pretty good) cause it uses the wrong mixes on some tracks and doesn't include some North American singles and b-sides.

[@drumkit666]

Krokus is the first that comes to mind what a mess and head scratching, i think it cost them being a bigger band.

[@kenfrederick6223]

Rainbow'- 'Finyl Vinyl" contains some amazing music, but has the most nonsensical track sequencing ever.

[@tatedavis2016]

Two picks that come immediately to mind are Legs Diamond and Doc Holliday. Legs Diamond put out three kick ass albums in the late 70’s, broke up for a few years, and started putting out albums in the mid 80’s and on that sound completely different from the early stuff, a few live albums, and sporadic studio output since then, but I think they still tour. Doc Holliday put out two awesome albums in the early ‘80’s that did decent business, but made a huge mistake when they teamed up with Reinhold Mack and put out that horrible album Modern Medicine, and they’ve been trying to recover from that blunder since.

[@mikepratt6481]

Bought Legs Diamond's Town Bad Girl cd back in the late 80s and had no idea they had been around since the 70s! Thought they were a new band!

[@karloberkovich]

I agree with Pete re the first few Allmans studio albums vs the later ones with Warren Haynes in the band. Equally excellent after the arguably patchy but still good middle period of studio albums. As for the live albums, Fillmore of course but from the immediate post-Duane's death live albums I'd put Wipe The Windows Check The Oil, Dollar Gas in there...and during the Haynes period An Evening With The Allman Brothers Band (both albums, first and second set) and One Way Out ... there's a pile of 'retrospective' live albums like Atlanta festival, Ludlow Garage etc which are good, too, plus the more recent "instant live' CDs from concerts you can effectively wrap up with the Cream Of The Crop 3-CD live compilation of shows from the Haynes period.

[@ForevrrFury]

What makes a lot of these worse is going to streaming platforms and trying to navigate through remasters and deluxe editions and endless amounts of live albums. Some bands will end up having 3 versions of the same album and then not one of them will be the original without bonus tracks or something of the sort

[@paulfaulkner2855]

Every band has a messy catalogue depending how you look at it. Soundgarden would have gone well with martins grunge rant. And, yes Green River and Mudhoney were early and very a huge inspiration to what became grunge.

[@AndI0td763]

Yeah and I was surprised they praised the later AIC albums. Those are okay at best, not very inspired stuff, to me anyway. I remember getting Black gives way to blue and liking only a handful of songs on it. Never felt they were back in a big way, just sort of bland and going through the motions. Not that great, but it’s somewhat decent stuff for aging rockers.

[@paulfaulkner2855]

@@AndI0td763 I don't like Alice in Chains without Layne, I never listen to the albums without him and bought one Jerry solo album and didn't like that either. But, it's funny that Pete says he hates grunge but AIC and Soundgarden were/are exactly what grunge was and he loves both bands. I think he's confused on what the grunge sound was/is.

[@AndI0td763]

@@paulfaulkner2855 Yeah I’m not totally sure what he is thinking on it. Don’t get me wrong I like Pete a lot but I’ve noticed several inconsistencies or conflicting opinions across several of his videos. When I think of grunge I also think of Soundgarden and AIC though I tie it more to the Seattle scene in the 90’s in general and less to an actual music style. But I think AIC embodied the grungy sludgy Seattle sound. And I know he doesn’t really care for Nirvana or Pearl Jam so maybe that’s partly why he said that.

[@americathisweek.6077]

Great show. 🎉

[@craigburgess7105]

Excellent episode. It's not a subject I have ever considered before. Apart from a few notable exceptions I generally steer clear of Live albums (maybe mistakenly) as I always thought that they were often 'fillers' for gaps in new writing or other events stopping recording and the quality dependent on the luck of the night. Long time gaps between studio albums, line up changes and label changes definite 'flags' for messiness. Big stylistic shifts can lead to magic (Talk Talk) or messiness. Not an area you would look at but Prince's catalogue in later years became extremely messy. Metallica's later catalogue is very confused and messy as is Boston with the huge gaps and limited output. Agree King Crimson - where do you start! My advice - buy the lot. This period in prog rock had a lot of line up swapping going on for sure. Helloween spring to mind a they had a period where quite a few live LP's were churned out rather than new material as they were going through a lot of line up changes but then they seemed to get back on track release wise.

[@douglashanau3339]

The entire zappa catalogue. The Mothers of invention, the motherS, Frank Zappa and the Mothers, frank Zappa, Zappa, FZ. All different personnel

[@ChromeDestiny]

I've found ways to make it less intimidating for myself but yeah, it's a mess.

[@knightvisioniixv]

The sheer amount of original albums, the posthumous releases (including live albums), Zappa remixing a number of his discs in the '80s, I believe (much to the chagrin of a number of his fans), differences between issues and reissues, vinyl and CD (track lengths, mixes, and in some cases, different track listings.) Yeah, it's a mess, no question; it is exhausting just thinking about this as I type. Zappa scholars could do a much better job than I ever could in breaking it all down.

[@musicisajourney]

I enjoyed this. I just started watching to see what you two would say and I was intrigued the whole way through. I love Martin but I tend to disagree with his music opinions almost every time! I love some punchy brass and love flute!

[@peterx1957]

I would argue that The Beatles catalogue is quite straightforward now. Their original UK catalogue is the default and now everything has been uniform since 1987 especial with the addition of "Past Masters" which collects all the non-LP tracks. The US catalogue is effectively redundant except if you want to hear them in crappy reverb & duophonic. The Anthology, BBC, Yellow Submarine Songtrack, Love & Let It Be...Naked are optional extras as are the remixed anniversary releases. Red & Blue and 1 are hits compilations.

[@djacobmadrigal]

Stay hydrated gentlemen! Be glad you’re not down here in New Orleans. The heat is brutal! Great topic!!! I like Jim Steinman’s solo record Bad For Good which came out in between Bat out of Hell and Deadringer. Was supposed to be a Meatloaf album but he couldn’t sing as u mentioned. And of course some of those Steinman solo songs are remade for Bat Out Of Hell 2.

[@grungil7570]

Jane's Addiction starts with a live album in 87, then release their 2 classic albums between 2 years span. Lollapoloza festival is created in 91 to celebrate their break up, and then you get a new album every 10 year or so, while they still keep performing live. Now, thats messy to me.

[@stephenpuishys3482]

Asia is real messy. Weston,Lake,Wetton,Payne,,Wetton. Howe,Mayer,Thrall, Coulson,Thal.assorted players on Then and Now. many different live albums with variety of line ups.

[@davidgasten4361]

I love the John Payne era of Asia but have yet to get to the live albums--that's a whole other animal for sure.

[@jasoneubank514]

Great White three lead singers,seven greatest hits and three live albums,and only three of them was big Selling albums.The Original five band members will always be the best. 1)Once Bitten 1,000,000 copies 2)Twice Shy 2,000,000 copies 3)Hooked 500,000 copies

[@michaelbaucom4019]

King Crimson was the first one I thought of for this

[@DamnableReverend]

The Beatles was sort of the first thing I thought of when i saw the video title. I don't personally feel the Alice in Chains catalogue is messy, or that EPs make a catalogue messy. Maybe I'm just used to them. A lot of classic metal EPs as well..Slayer Haunting the Chapel, Destruction Sentence of Death, Sepultura bestial Devastation, Queensryche EP, etc. Hudson Valley just did an episode about this. It costs money to record music and sometimes you don't ahve much. Sometimes eps are just where a band puts a lot of its experimental material, especailly early on (see Cathedral). Sometimes you just want to get stuff out there. Jar of FLies is still longer than some LPs. martin's grumbling about Chicago and their horn section makes me laugh. I'm kind of the opposite -- in my childhood days I liked horns more than guitars, and some of my earliest memories involve listening to my dad's Chicago and Miles Davis records. I wanted to grow up to play "a horn section" not realising at first that that wasn't just a single instrument playing. haha....eventually I did pick up the trumpet, so there you go. Then I started playing drums in an extreme metal band. The things puberty will do to you eh?

[@ChromeDestiny]

For a long time The Beatles' CD catalog was standardized but then they did two rounds of CD reissues of the US albums, at least they were confined to collector's sets. The more recent US albums box drops some of the US mixes but does give you a cheaper way to get 60's mono mixes.

[@Verboten-xn4rx]

Midnight Rider was iconic in The Devil's Rejects. Hell of an intro. Pure Amurikana smoked.

[@ryanjacobson2508]

How about bands with boring or repetitive album covers that make it hard to distinguish each album from each other?

[@YinWhoo-zx2sz]

Whitesnake has a messy catalogue and David Coverdale has such a control freak personality. Coverdale fired the entire band that's messy! John Sykes was the best guitarist Whitesnake had, it was because of Coverdale's insecurity and jealousy he had Sykes fired. Whitesnake hasn't made anything iconic since 1987 and some might say that's karma for how narcissistic Coverdale was during those recording sessions and his treatment towards Sykes!

[@davidgasten4361]

I can thank the SoT channel for helping me make sense of that catalog at last.

[@Leo-ci9kc]

Another great topic! BTW, originally Chicago 9 was their Greatest Hits

[@nowherebrit9260]

Deep Purple spring to mind. So many singers, so many styles, so many live albums!

[@Skycladatdusk78]

There was a second "re" in the Garage Days Re-Revisited EP because the first Garage Days Revisited was the covers of Am I Evil and Blitzkreig on the Creeping Death single.

[@independenceltd.]

I still have my picture disc

[@Skycladatdusk78]

@@independenceltd. I'm jealous! I only have those two songs on an older Kill 'Em All pressing, and on Garage Inc.

[@tedswedalla5422]

Thank god that Zappa dropped the Mothers in the early 70s, or his catalog would be nearly impossible to track. Even the various versions of the Mothers are complicated. Original, Flo and Eddie, Roxy band, etc.

[@gratefulblac]

When a genre becomes unpopular it is difficult to sort out the mess. For instance post 80s progressive rock is so huge a catalogue, I have not been able to get to grips with it. Everything from Marrilion to Transatlantic, King Crimson to Big Big Train! It is not that it is a mess but it is like a sprawling Monster thats waving its arms and legs at the same time. Likewise, punk, after 1980, carries on, but the scene becomes so huge and so many different styles it is near impossible to go into it without there being a mess.

[@davidgasten4361]

Well when the albums are only available as imports that makes it worse. That's why I haven't hit a lot of the British neo-prog and Italian prog acts. They're sure good though.

[@scottsebben889]

Also...bands that record under a different name: XTC as "Dukes of Stratosphear" and Zappa as "Ruben and the Jets." I'm sure there are more of these...

[@mintyfresh4987]

Yer a Geeneeus!

[@richardcrook2112]

Metallica are so past their use by date, if they were a piece of food the fridge door would be hanging of it's hinges and the thing would probably running for president.

[@apparaoapparao]

Excellent topic.

[@lateramae]

My brain is suffering from a massive headache after hearing all of those Chicago album titles. Can't imagine how confusing it must've been for music journalists to get them right.

[@humphreygruntwhistle3946]

The typestyle on Rainbow’s debut album would have worked in the title of a 1940’s John Wayne western.

[@dtltmtgt]

Funny, each of you presented the favorite band of the other today. 🤣

[@ilj1259]

We need more of that... They can't always agree... Like Siskel & Ebert.

[@dandesjardins3159]

To Make matters Worse, How About All The Best of/Greatest Hits Comps & All Those So Called Budget labels. A Couple of Catalogs That Come To Mind Are Elvis Presley, &Frank Zappa/Mothers Of Invention. Ouch The Headaches!!! Santana ,Kiss & Jethro Tull. Boxsets Of All Sorts Don't Help. How About A Show About Producers, Engineers. & Mastering Engineers? Love That You Two Go To The Fringes Of The Box To talk Music. Keep Up The Good Work.

[@davidgasten4361]

Venom is brutal for this. As I mentioned, wading through their compilations (almost all of which as unmarked) gives a new meaning to "Welcome to Hell." 😆

[@scotterrebo995]

The Kinks also had a messy catalog. Also The Move.

[@ykmgeedee]

Neil Young released the messy Journey Through the Past which set the tone for the next 52+ years to use a Vonnegut phrase unstuck in time.

[@ChromeDestiny]

Neil's discography is kind of clean if you just go with standard albums but he's so prolific there's a lot even then. The problem comes with archival live stuff, the discography balloons to huge proportions and it doesn't help that Neil sometimes blurred the lines between studio and live albums.

[@ykmgeedee]

@@ChromeDestiny Well... Chrome Dreams II before I. Unreleased albums like above and Hitchhiker that have different versions of songs on previous albums. Tonight's the Night being recorded before On the Beach but released after. Being in a band (CSNY) or even more so a duo (Stills-Young Band). Toast has songs from 20 years prior some of which would appear on another album from that time. Homegrown was scrapped at last minute but many of its songs would be on other albums, then itself would be released 45 years later. All studio.

[@Michael_Birk]

The logo on the first Rainbow record looks like a Scarecrow motif to me. Possibly another Wizard of Oz connection?

[@steelmonkey7609]

Yet another great show, Pete I have a *Question* I was watching one of your RANT videos, and you mentioned the possibility of doing your own Rock and Roll Hall of Fame list each year, I think that's a wonderful idea, tell me have you given that any more thought? A show where everyone could suggest bands and see who makes the final cut sounds like a winner😊

[@seaoftranquilityprog]

Well, I pretty much forgot about that, and I was kinda joking at the time anyway. Maybe someday, I don't know...

[@wolf1977]

I actually hope not, the less we spotlight the R&RHOF I think the better off we are. To me mentioning them in a single episode once a year when their annual nominations come out is more than enough...

[@richardhenle2650]

STYX for sure needs a mention. It starts out on Wooden Nickel different sound, then progresses to more melodic stuff and a major label deal, but then a band member change, enter Shaw and things change, rockier, acoustic and more harmonies for sure. Then concept albums jump in back to back and Tommy is noted as saying, "please no more concepts after this" well a live album one new song and he is gone and the band done for about 7 years. Dennis re-forms without Tommy, a new member with Burtnik, ballad is their only hit off it, bad is dropped from the label, they are gone again, NOW the label wants to cash in with a new best of but they want LADY cant get it, have to reform and add Tommy and re-do and this leads to two very big tours and a live album which goes gold in 1997 which is unheard of for an old band and LIVE too, that album also has a few new songs, then a part 2 of HITS is out more new songs. All this is leading to a new album but also a bitter break where Dennis is let go, which brings on a ton of LIVE non Dennis Albums a Dual Live album with REO, then a new studio album, then more live albums, then a re-do of their songs in two volumes is released to basically erase Dennis from the history in a way, then more live stuff, solo stuff sprinkled in, and two new studio albums that are their best in almost 30 years, a very tiring all over catalog

[@jeremey9818]

The point of having the price in the title of Garage Days was to keep retailers from over charging for it, and they even included a sticker that said if the price was more than that mentioned in the title, to STEAL IT.

[@M.H691]

The worst for me is bands / musicians who have a HUGE discography, esp w/ experimental / avant-garde / industrial bands like Nurse With Wound, Muslimguaze or (maybe the worst offender) Merzbow and his 400+ album discography.

[@747jono]

Love the way you guys tell it as it is fantastic

[@georgenoriegajr]

Gamma Ray's early catalog was about as messy as it gets. Kai Hansen leaves Helloween, recruits Ralf Scheepers (v.), Uwe Wessel (b.) and Mathias Burchardt (dr.) and releases what many fans consider the true follow-up to the Keeper of the Seven Keys albums, Heading for Tomorrow. Burchardt leaves the band, Hansen brings in Dirk Schlächter as a second guitar and Uli Kusch on drums and they tour in support of HfT, then release Sigh No More. Both Wessel and Kusch leave, Jan Rubach (b.) and Thomas Nack (dr.) join the band for Insanity and Genius. Ralf Scheepers leaves in order to audition for Judas Priest and Hansen takes over lead vocals on Land of the Free. Rubach and Nack both leave after the supporting tour for LotF, Schlächter takes over on bass, Henjo Richter joins as second guitar and Daniel Zimmermann takes over on drums for Somewhere out in Space. With their 5th album, that lineup FINALLY lasts and they're together for 15 years until 2012 when Zimmermann retires. Michael Ehré takes over on drums in 2012 and in 2023, Hansen, Schlächter, Richter and Ehré are still in the band. Besides the constant personnel changes, those first 5 albums all sound different from each other; once the lineup solidifies, they finally nail the classic Gamma Ray sound.

[@RodrigoAlves-bc8qq]

My Bloody Valentine, what a messy catalog. Just 3 LPs, lots of EPs, different syles, huge gap between the last 2 LPs. Awesome stuff, nonetheless

[@davidgasten4361]

I'm still waiting for the "Geek!" EP to come out on CD; that thing is really good.

[@de_sng5285]

Boston for sure!

[@mikelopez1430]

An offshoot to this topic (meatloaf discussion prompted it) would be bands with EKG type success / sales or critical acclaim/derision. High peaks with low points in between them.

[@JohannesYtterstrom]

I like " Stranger In Us All " !

[@ghfdt368]

Mike Oldfield comes to mind aswell, I know he's a solo artist and he is a genius but his catalog is like trying to understand an enigma code. We start off with Tubular Bells, then he goes more folky with classical and rock sprinkled in for a long while. 19 YEARS later you get tubular bells 2 then you get 2 really cool ethereal and cinematics style albums with the songs of distant earth and voyager then 6 years after Tubular Bells 2 you get Tubular Bells 3! I mean a lot of his albums are great but his catalog is a Complete mess and confusing as hell. Still love him though.

[@purpletemple1]

The neatest/ most efficient catalogue must be Morbid Angel, who named their albums in alphabetical order. Pretty smart. Cheers.

[@apparaoapparao]

Jane’s Addiction, who need to be talked about much more btw. Very influential with metal/Goth/New Wave/Funk late 80s early albums. Then very messy 90s and messy ever since.

[@Fastnbulbous1969]

Yeah, it was hard to appreciate later Mudhoney when they hit perfection with Green River and the Superfuzz Bigmuff EP. Martin nailed the appeal -- in '88, a friend and I were all about them and Dinosaur Jr. Outside of metal, that was the only great heavy music happening. Soul Asylum's Hang Time was pretty good too, but not that heavy.

[@Troy.Ritter]

King Crimson’s catalogue is so messy. So many different lineups, and the different “ProjeKct” albums. Not to mention the 300 plus live albums.

[@MrSmitht04]

Best show on youtube

[@Verboten-xn4rx]

Who do the best back screens live it's like William Burroughs's levels of edit.

[@ryanjacobson2508]

Their are some bands plagued by like a million different compilations which might have one or two new non-live recordings, and the rest is re-issued stuff and maybe a couple live tracks thrown in. Testament and Anthrax come to mind... Maybe Megadeth too.

[@damiankarras]

So are you going to have a ‘Clean Album Catalog’ episode? I would suggest Rush, King’s X, U2, ZZTOP, and Opeth

[@antonnee]

Does Lionel have s messy catalog

[@jinortap5685]

To me, a messy catalog is best represented by bands like The Beatles, The Rolling Stones, AC/DC...where albums in different areas have different album covers and track lists.