Why You're Not “Middle Class”

[@basicindiebro]

We literally could not afford an exterminator for our bug infestations growing up and the ceiling was caving in on our house and my mom had like thousands of dollars in medical debt, but my mom always got mad when I called us poor, she said we were “lower middle class.” Like girl. We were poor.

[@orangeairsoft7292]

That's like 3rd world conditions. Yet I don't think people in countries like Malawi would consider themselves 'middle class'. Then again that story lines up with this quote, "the poor see themselves not as an exploited proletariat but as temporarily embarrassed millionaires".

[@jessaminepalace4052]

@@orangeairsoft7292 3rd world conditions?

[@reedy9333]

Yeah but don't embarrass your parents by pointing it out. Put your head down and Tough it out until you're out on your own

[@LeoNegrete84]

Lived without hot water and constant clogging plumbing for 2 years and a leak roof with one window unit and half of the house without electricity.....so yea....american freaken dream....come on come all make it worse and worse for those here....smh

[@Kieselmeister]

Class is only tangentially related to wealth, and everything to do with rights and privileges. An impoverished noble is still a noble, and a wealthy peasant is still a peasant. Bourgeoisie literally means Citizen. You were a citizen with the rights of a citizen, thus you were middle class. The 3 tier proletariat/bourgeoisie/aristocrat, class structure dates back to, and is a product of, Rome's influence on Europe. And while the Romans based class membership on wealth (senator, equestrian (lit. can afford a horse), plebeian), by the end of the medieval period, things were very much different and related to land. Land owners = aristocracy, having the rights of of citizenship in a chartered city (where the city government collectively functions as a noble filling a slot in the feudal heirarchy)= bourgeoisie, everyone else = commoners. The USA is functionally a feudal hierarchy where every level is occupied by a chartered city (city/municipal council = a baron, county/parish government = a count, state government = a Duke, federal government = monarch) When the USA was founded, there WERE 3 classes of residents. Despite not having titles, land owners were the only people allowed to vote and were thus the aristocracy. Non land owning Ethnic Europeans were the middle class. And everyone else that wasn't a slave was the "lower class". However, the USA hasn't had a true "upper class" since the right to vote was extended to non-land owners 1848, and hasn't had a true "lower class" since universal birthright citizenship was granted in 1924. The closest thing to an actual "lower class" which currently exists in the USA would be long term resident aliens.

[@LeeH688]

The idea of being “middle class” while classing yourself as being higher “status” than those “below” you is one of the most powerful tools the establishment have to keep people voting against their own interests.

[@nikhilPUD01]

80% of the population

[@FoxMacLeod2501]

Amen. Love your doors, by the way.

[@gHGhej]

@@briobarb8525 *cough cough* take the lesson, we are togther not better or worst *cough*

[@briobarb8525]

@@gHGhej Either I am misunderstanding your comments or you are misunderstanding mine. I meant that the comment is a (true but SAD reality...and I vehemently oppose it). Yet, it continues to work for those who play it on those who fall for their illusion.

[@gHGhej]

@@briobarb8525 I am unsure if the use of 'sheepole' was used in a sarcastic way or serious. If serious, it is the same as creating a middle class, we can all be tricked and fooled.

[@caiomh7605]

"class isn't about how much money you make. it's about how you earn money." thanks for this. people need to regain their class consciousness.

[@caiomh7605]

I would also like to point out there are actually 3 classes: Workers Business owners Rentiers The third group is the major cause of our problems today. Classical thinkers used to call them "the idle rich". "Those who profit on their sleep." - John Stuart Mill "Those who reap where they've never sow" - Adam Smith A business owner is at the very least working, and at the very least employing capital to produce something... Even if people are sometimes being exploited. Rentiers are exponentially worse. The true parasite class who is not only unproductive, but also destructive. They earn money from interest, rent, capital gains, dividends, fraud. If you think business owners are the worse, you haven't seen a rentier. Suggested book: "Killing the Host" - Michael Hudson

[@caiomh7605]

@@SapioiT A business owner who works and distributes surplus according to each person's contribution is not a parasite. There is a huge difference between the parasite who consumes what others produce, and the manager who coordinates workers.

[@joyn6654]

@@SapioiT You are correct.

[@owenlindkvist5355]

So, which colour of marxism influenced you?

[@undertaker11ism]

Facts. Class is more about assets

[@michellesprague3163]

I'm a librarian and had an honest conversation with a chronically homeless man once where he told me how his favorite politician would help "middle class people like us". In the definition of middle class that uses how much money we have or the white picket fence American dream, he and I were not in the same class. What he was tapping into is that we both needed to work to live, despite him being in a much more precarious situation. Many many workers are much closer to experiencing the life of that man than experiencing the life on Elon Musk. It's a hard pill to swallow, but I agree with the thesis of this video. The middle class is a lie. And everyone who must work to live must support each other.

[@Xanaduum]

Nope, the middle class people are a buffer between your homeless guy and the working class and those above you. Middle class people enjoy the position they have exactly because there are people below them doing all the dirty work, and lower paid work. So from a privileged position of course you would want to say, no, there is no middle class, I'm basically the same as the homeless guy. Do you realise how narcisstic it is to want your cake and to eat it in this regard?

[@Acolyte82]

@@Xanaduum According to socialists anyone that owns capital is a capitalist and therefore a part of the "evil muh owner class" by that logic literally anyone could be a capitalist and are aligned with the top 1% it just doesn't hold merit. Classes are just a way of dividing and accounting for wealth and nothing else. Don't listen to this grifter trying to tell you that everything in your life will be okay as long as you subscribe to utopian socialism.

[@shubhod9569]

@@Xanaduum most people are above homelessness for now, but that can always change very easily. 6/10 americans can't afford a surprise $500 expense did you even watch the video? There is not much of a distinction between working class and middle class, they are the same. Homelessness is just an unfortunate thing that can happen to any of us, or at least 6/10 of us... stop perpetuating class infighting it is disgusting.

[@Xanaduum]

@@shubhod9569 you're disgusting for making out there isn't much difference between the two, as well as implying that simply not being homeless is good enough (why complain I guess?🤨) , it's a kind of erasure. I'm working class, I've lived with both working class people and middle class people and their families, I've observed the differences. Plus you've got the thing in the US where working class people call themselves middle class which muddies the waters, the politicians want everyone to consider themselves 'middle class'. In the UK middle class people call themselves working class because of a mix of middle class guilt and reverse snobbery in the UK, plus the middle class lefties use the phrase 'working class' like it's a credential. It's like saying to black people back during the days of slavery: as in - 'stop pointing out these issues, it's just causing fighting and division', the division already exists, sweeping it under the carpet for the sake of your comfortable status quo isn't going to make it disappear. 🖕

[@shubhod9569]

@@Xanaduum again you don't know the reality of it or are overly focused on a small subset of people. Most middle class people can't afford a surprise 500 expense which means they are just one minor emergency from being dirt poor. There isn't much difference between the two. Stop being a disgusting person and learn some empathy. We all have the same struggle and it's not until you are actually upper class that that goes away. You missed the entire thesis of the video and the statistical evidence that shows why middle class is a myth. I think you are attacking some imaginary people in your head that don't exist, or are mistaking upper class people for middle class because they do often claim it when they are actually not. If you really look into it, then yes middle class doesn't exist and most people who call themselves that are 1 emergency away from having nothing. So who are you even talking about ? And this isn't a status quo at all, it is radical hence the need for this video. Your take is the status quo, the idea that there is a "middle class" and a "working class" with competing interests. And another thing you are missing is the fact that most people you think are living a higher quality of life than you are not doing it due to wealth but due to accruing debt through student loans, credit cards, and mortgages. They are not richer they are massively in debt and many don't ever recover from it. Again another point made in the video.

[@craftyhobbit7623]

My definition of 'middle class' has always been that you are able to live comfortably, don't earn loads to live a lavish lifestyle like buying yachts and going on expensive holidays, but you can always pay for things like vet bills, send your kids to uni, be able to afford replacement appliances when they break down, etc, without having to use loans and credit catalogues to pay for it.

[@hollydowns2279]

Good luck these days! There are those with or without homes, those with no home is exponentially growing. Live long and become homeless

[@mixolyde]

My family is in the top 10% for the US and I don't think that's true even for us anymore. Holy crap.

[@daraquesto2277]

You missed the whole point

[@pumfeethermodynamics3286]

not a class

[@JohnDoe-lc9yj]

In 1973, the earliest year for which U.S. Census data is currently available for home size, the average size of a house in the U.S. was 1,660 square feet. By 2015, the average square footage of a home increased to a whopping 2,687 square feet. So the "American Dream" has also gotten bigger too. College education costs are insane.

[@Marxism_Today]

Yup, I suffered from this "middle-class" false consciousness BIG TIME as a kid. We barely scraped by while both my parents worked 60-hour weeks in essentially minimum wage jobs, but 100% totally definitely really "middle-class"

[@thevictor180]

Your videos radicalized me

[@JohnSmith-vm8rx]

Hey it’s Marxist Paul! Love seeing you comment in these videos. 👍

[@brandon9172]

IM NOT POOR GUYS, I'M NOT LIKE THE OTHER MINIMUM WAGE WORKERS, IM AKTUALLY LOWER MIDDLE CLASS

[@guillermo.mserrano]

Hmmm, I always thought my family definitely qualified as middle class because both of my parents have high salaries (still wage labour, but high wage), they own our home and theycan afford a lot of commodities as long as they aren't too luxurious. But it's still wage labour.

[@somnorila9913]

You can say you're middle class if you can go tomorrow if you need or want and buy yourself a brand new car in cash and would not have any significant effect on your living standard or your savings so pretty much are still safe to take on whatever life situation that may come like some economic crisis, inflation, some health issue or just getting old and retire.

[@99xara99]

My mom often couldn't even buy food in the end of the month and owed several months of rent. My classmates families had houses, several cars and sometimes went to Paris for a weekend. As far as anyone was concerned, it's all "middle class", because you're only "poor" when you're homeless or starving, and you're only "rich" when you own a private jet. Thanks for this video because I was recently wondering about what "middle class" even means and I'm now definitely going to avoid the term.

[@MrEjblanco]

There only poor and rich, both are better off then so called middle class, who basically are the workers and pay for everything while in return get nothing

[@DominiqueRamseyArt]

There was a girl in high school who's parents were BOTH dentists. I always found it uptight that she hated being called "rich" or "middle class", come to find out however the bread-winner parent only makes money IF they go into the office that day. On top of that, I didn't think about the fact that both parents went to medical school and there-by have student loan debt. She definitely wasn't poor but I now realize how her "middle class" would be taken away so easily.

[@codesm96]

​@@altan5910 Boo fucking hoo. Rich doctors making half a million have hard lives because of mental stress? The bottom 5% of people like me who are poor af and have no reason to live but we still do, have worked their entire lives and have been through traumatic experiences, been homeless due to illegal eviction and almost died on the street, came from a broken home, was almost murdered by my alcoholic mother in the middle of the night and denied hospital treatment to cover it up which caused long-term injury, ended up in foster care and suffered abuse there and was arrested under false accusations of arrest by a white woman while dealing with racism as a black man being strip searched for a crime that I never committed. Don't EVER tell me how hard a rich doctor has it. Those people studied to become doctors all because they had rich parents that put them through school and because it was a 'respectable' profession that made them think they're better than everybody else that's why people hate doctors, even when treating patients they talk to them like they have their head so far up their ass and as if you're so beneath them. I would slap the taste out of their rich mouths including yours if you are a doctor. GTFO and stop complaining. I am one of millions of people who have life a MILLION times worse since the day I was born and I'm still strong enough not to have committed suicide. Shout out to all my people struggling through these hard times with very little money to their name. Unlike you, stress, anxiety and depression is VERY REAL and 100x worse than that which you could EVER imagine because it is tied to real life constant trauma nobody should have to go through but we do and the corporate world do not care about us, they despise us, the government and opposition despise us, the whole world thinks we're disgusting scumbags and have no sympathy for us because we weren't born into middle class families, I know if I was I could have gone very far in life but I was already behind by the day I was born, it was all written for me for the next two decades which I had little control over as with all children.

[@kickapoo1390]

Man, that's no way to live, played from the very beginning. It's like a deal with the devil, I'll get you high and you'll earn a lot but you will pay most of it to me.

[@zyonthelickman]

@@cibray89 pointless take

[@stephenwilliams9628]

Dentist don't go to medical school. They're not doctors.

[@thealiusjones]

@@zyonthelickman lmao

[@stormyalice]

I always felt like I was middle class because I can keep the roof over my head by living paycheck to paycheck. That's how my mom taught me when I grew up with just her working two jobs while going to college for a second degree. Someone told me I'm lower class when I told them I haven't been to a dentist in 3 years despite needing one. That made me realize. I'm poor AF. But not homeless. So, probably lower class. My only savings is one of the stimulus checks- and the only reason I was able to keep it was being able to work right through the pandemic.

[@claude2571]

Like he said in the video, you're working class. Lower class, middle class, and upper class are useless labels. working class vs owning class seems a lot more reasonable

[@larrote6467]

​@@claude2571 There are more classes depending on what in particular you are talking about. this was the marxist critique of ownership repackaged, and even post-marxism has now incorporated into this critique that politicians themselves are another class (that kind of fill in the role of the clergy in the old regime); but there's even more things we could be talking about and there are different classes; don't be so ideologically narrow-minded

[@ch3rrikiss]

If your only revenue stream comes from the work you do for an employer, you're working to live - WORKING CLASS. Middle classes have more than one revenue stream with one of them requiring having employees

[@tony6666]

Yeah nobody living paycheck to paycheck is "middle class" in my pov, but that just proves the point that the idea oc it is stupid

[@luketeeninga7106]

@@larrote6467 This reminds me of the distinction Bertrand Russell makes in his article "In Praise of Idleness". He says there are three kinds of "work" - (1) moving material around in the physical world (working class), (2) telling other people to do it for you (capitalist class), (3) Deciding which work should happen or even be allowed to happen (politician class). (I added the class names here; Russell doesn't use them) It's not exactly the same distinction, but you can see how it parallels the idea here. I also think Russell was oversimplifying for comedic effect, but I don't think that impacts his central point.

[@OKingSizeTv]

Being "middle class" is very much a feeling that artificially generates a political group. The difference between myself and someone making minimum wage when compared to someone making 6 figures is basically non-existent, yet society decide to treat us differently. Very sad.

[@coolioso808]

These are the regular, predictable failures of a capitalist-driven system. Market capitalism is socially, environmentally and economically unsustainable. There is no getting around that fact. We have to come to terms with that, hopefully sooner than later, and change to a better system. Economic classes are perceptive anyway, but destructive because of how much power the wealthy elites have. If we look at it from a simple standpoint: What do we know we need? Nutritious food, clean water, clean energy, functional/durable clothing, adequate healthcare, education and transportation. That's been obvious for years, and it has been technically possible to provide that for everybody without resorting to owners vs workers, or money and markets ruling our lives. Technical efficiency is different than market efficiency and that's part of the reason why there is such an ongoing class war. We are still in the same system that is causing these problems. Time to think about system change. Suggestion: Natural Law Resource Based Economy.

[@OKingSizeTv]

@@coolioso808 I like Yanis Varoufakis ideas in another now as a starting point though I disagree with his view for the so called third world.

[@coolioso808]

@@OKingSizeTv Yes, I'm aware of some of what Yanis talks about. I believe he makes some good observations and points overall, about the current system problems. I don't believe he goes deep enough and/or talks about viable solutions. Once you know, you know there is going to be a great simplification in human society. The current socio-economic system is a cancerous growth. It's killing us and the life support systems on Earth. Many people know it is bad, because of extreme weather events and environmental destruction, along with living conditions getting worse overall - but most don't know the root cause is the very system we are living in. A monetary-market based society cannot continue without massive destruction. So we either join in solidarity, demand a system change and build a better system that can be sustainable, or we watch the slow and steady spiral to the bottom. I'd rather be on the side that has a chance for sustainability and increasing overall human health and well-being. A natural law resource based economy can get us there.

[@OKingSizeTv]

@@coolioso808 I see your point, and there is a great deal of merit to it. I just hope we can actually join in solidarity before we are forced to by all the crisis we are currently making worse.

[@arthurkineard7356]

Each class is defined because each class has different needs. How do you look at the 30 40 year old guy flipping burgers at Mc Donalds and last month doing the same thing at Wendy's. It is not a positive thought. It is generally what is wrong with this guy. Why? Because something is wrong with the guy. Drugs, mental health, IQ who knows but something is wrong. Humans classify things into hierarchies that is why their is a middle class, poor class, rich class and so many things inbetween. It is what we do. People will always be treated differently because people are different.

[@Lucas-ns9hd]

Even the class-awareness activists being sponsored by Audible shows exactly how secure of a position that company is in.

[@Gektorometer]

Big companies absolutely adore far left, haven't you noticed? Unlike small ones, they can afford left anti-business policies. Hope my point is clear :)

[@Gektorometer]

@Russ Ingram 1. The revolution is very much left 2. Oh sorry man, that famous right wing bias of Netflix, Disney, Twitter, Google and all the tier 1 celebs has completely slipped out of my mind. I still wonder how the democrats could win with so much media pressure..

[@pinedrone2550]

​@@Gektorometer How much do big businesses love Cuba, Venezuela, and DPRK? Big businesses pay to muddle the meaning of socialism and promote pacifism and progressivism instead. Haven't you noticed?

[@pinedrone2550]

This is fake activism. It is just a capitalist ad that wastes your time and tricks you into feeling like you learned and then directs you to buy a book where you will waste more time. Instead, read marx, lenin, and mao. Forget this fake leftist trash.

[@yournemesis192]

@@Gektorometer The left shifted from worker rights and demanding higher wages to trans rights and wokeness.

[@agoogleuser9218]

There is a lot of interpretation as to what "middle class" actually is. Growing up, my parents swore that we were "Lower-middle class" but it sure felt like we were somewhere between working poor and working class. 6 people jammed into a small rowhouse in a $hitty big city neighborhood, spaghetti for dinner 4-5x a week, bills always somehow got paid but nothing leftover for any kind of extras. Never a shortage of cigarettes and beer., though... Go figure....

[@cherylT321]

Somehow people who are broke, always have money for beer, cigarettes and for some, drugs!

[@schurlbirkenbach1995]

Yes, you are right. But middle class means first, not to have a fancy car, but to own a piece of land, in which you live. A lot of people lose their money, to buy trash and to eat trash in a restaurant, instead to fight for an own piece of land. Once I saw a podcast of the american south. The mayor of the town said, oh we are damned poor. The journalist said, but lets be serious. I saw really poor regions on this planet. That😊 what you have here, is Beverly Hills. But the youngsters prefer, to drug themselves and instead of becoming a railway employee to dream to become a top criminal or actor. Thanks to Hollywood

[@marthamryglod291]

Growing up, I always thought that middle class had a home they owned, a career with a retirement and pension, a car for each adult, and the ability to retire comfortably at 55. Boy I was sooo wrong

[@Leenapanther]

I come from Switzerland were renting is the norm. Lower class for me means, people who aren't interested in politics or culture, don't follow the news, have no money for vacations, no hobbies, no money for extras (subscriptions for Netflix, Disney). The government helps out a lot for the poor so they don't have to worry about rent, food or health care. I work in retail, therefore I see myself as the working class. Still: Everyone I work with, goes on vacation (abroad) at least once a year. Going on multiple vacations a year is for me the middle class. Someone like me who rarely goes on vacation is seen as the odd one out.

[@marthamryglod291]

@@Leenapanther that is very interesting. Where I grew up in new York State, middle class would usually take a spring vacation and a summer trip. Depending on how much income, it could be to camp outdoors or to Disney for a week. That is the type of middle class I knew. Lower middle class would usually visit relatives and stay with them, and the poor working class would rarely leave their town.

[@Jay_Johnson]

I don’t know about other countries but the way in which housing has become a speculative asset I think provides a useful political distinction. Renters want the housing crisis to end so 1. A lower proportion of their income is rent and 2. They stand a chance of becoming a homeowner. Homeowners want to inflate the housing crisis as it directly increases their wealth. The way these two groups seem economically opposed is why I’d use this as a dividing line for a broader working class. Homeowners are capitalists when they think about their homes but work normally outside of that.

[@marthamryglod291]

@@Jay_Johnson solid point

[@xAlexZifko]

wait, you DONT think that would be befitting of the label "middle class" nowadays?

[@joycewright5386]

I always thought of middle class as living comfortably on whatever you earn, being able to have an emergency fund and stay out of debt.

[@TarDeisa]

But thats a pretty wide definition. When is the emergency fund enough to stay out of debt? In the US. A single hospital bill can go into the hundreds of thousands. Home repairs can easily go into the tens of thousands. Car repairs are still quickly in the thousands. So going by this realistically, only millionaires actually qualify for this, as they are uniquely able to actually fund any common emergency. This also goes into stuff like buying a home or car. Is it okay to go into debt to buy a home? Is it okay to go into debt to buy a car? Most americans do so, and again, you need to be a millionaire to avoid that. And it doesnt actually tell you about the amount of money used. This can apply to someone who never goes into hospital, doesnt need to drive to work, and has a few thousand dollars of income. Or it can apply to someone with millions of income, who buys a yacht every few years. Or it could even apply to someone like elon musk, who just buys huge companies every now and then. Because "living comfortably" is very relative. Someone can live comfortably on a farm in the middle of nowhere, that they inherited from their parents. Or someone who buys expensive jewelry every other month. Where does living comfortably end, and living lavishly start? And in general, everyone goes into debt. No matter if you have a few thousand dollars income and want to buy a house, or you have a few million income, and you want to buy your third yacht.

[@joycewright5386]

@@TarDeisa Well that is why I said “living comfortably “. I live in a very small house, with a ten year old car, I don’t have cable or any streaming service but I am very comfortable and able to pay my bills so I consider myself middle class. Many others would not call this middle class.

[@carolynclitheroe3588]

My understanding is that the American definition of class is based on financial status but the British definition is based on education culture family background as well as money.

[@decati31]

“middle class” just sounds like what everyone should be living like

[@moocowp4970]

Hmm, under your definition Jeff Bezos would be considered Middle Class then. He lives comfortably on whatever he earns, has an emergency fund (a rather sizeable one) and stays out of net debt.

[@forever-and-a-day2043]

Excellent video, been thinking this for a long time. The class struggle is not between the dirty poors below you and the slightly more rich above you. It's between those who work for a living and those who own for a living.

[@thomaspollack7451]

Amen! Marx was right on the head with that one.

[@ShinobiXRevived]

@@thomaspollack7451 Capitalist know this already. The founding fathers knew this. It's our own purposeful working class mis-education that we have to battle against.

[@thomaspollack7451]

@@ShinobiXRevived you're 1000% right. Most capitalist have always known most of what Marx said is true. You know, educating the mass of people to these realities, that's kinda the whole point of Marx's work right? His whole body of work was aimed at battling the mis-education and providing regular people with an honest understanding of how capitalism functions.

[@misanthropyunhinged]

the wealthy are parasites

[@incognitotorpedo42]

What about people who both work for a living AND own for a living? My family does both. So what are we? I think Second Thought is intellectually dishonest.

[@dianabraley8307]

I’ve been strIving to be middle class by buying a house - but when I went to buy with my hubby they told us to clean up our credit - we did that, then they said you need to be in business over 2 years - we waited to do that. Then they approved such a low amount we could not find a house to buy. Now we have to make more in order to buy in a year. I’m on a treadmill which seems to be spinning and I’m not getting any closer to my goals.

[@drinkxyz]

You don't need good credit to "buy" a house, only money. You only need credit to enter in to rent-to-own agreements with capitalists. Funny how we've been conditioned to call it buying or owning when it's still just renting and debt.

[@ZockIt]

That's actually a thing that I and many of my friends and colleagues don't really understand about the "American Dream". We have something similar here in Germany, but not nearly as developed as in America: Many people of the "middle class" or who want to belong to the middle class are assuming that they need to build or buy a house at some point in there lives to settle down. At least in Germany are MANY people and families who don't think so and who are completely satisfied with renting an apartment for their whole life. But I rarely notice that from America. I only see comments and videos like yours from people who desperately want to own a house to "be middle class". I don't know if we have better rules and laws for landlords here in Germany, so it's more attractive to rent an apartment than in America, but I actually assume this. I know several people who live in rented apartments on purpose, because they have SO MUCH LESS duties for maintenance... The landlord has to do everything that is related to the apartment, so these guys have way less stress by renting even if they are able to buy an own house. Some of them are even owning own apartments but aren't living there themselves on purpose.

[@Your_moms_waifu]

@@ZockIt The problem with renting in America is that there’s not any rent regulation in the majority of the country, which leads to incredibly expensive rent. Even with mortgage interest rates at an all time high, my rent for a 1 bedroom is equivalent to what the mortgage would be for a lot of houses in my area (larger than 1bd), and apartment complexes also have slow maintenance, shitty landlords, random evictions when a landlord wants to renovate and upcharge, etc.

[@kristinwest2739]

It's because a lot of the landlords here in America only take advantage of us and are only in it for the money. We know that at any time we could be asked to leave once the lease is up. For example, I live in a poor state and recently a lot of people from a richer state are moving into it and keeping their incomes by working remotely while living in our poor state. The landlords figured out that the wealthy people are in the area and they refused to renew any of our leases telling us we had to get out, and went online and raised their prices several hundred dollars and got the rich people to come live in them. So we know that if rich people come to the area, we can get kicked out. Or if we miss even one payment or are even a dollar short they can start the eviction process. Renting in America is never a safe future for families. That's why most people don't want to live in an apartment their whole life. Also the apartments are really small for what you have to pay for them. The business is too greedy to Americans to sum it up.

[@annahbranch]

My husband and I bought a home instead of continuing to rent, because it was the same price for something much larger and more useful. And at least with buying, my money might eventually get me something I can keep and then someday sell to get some money back. Renting is throwing my money into a black hole, never moving forward.

[@Jairan78]

I can’t define the “middle class”, but I know you’re probably “working class” when you’re offered government assistance but when you apply, it’s said you make “too much” money.

[@funeraljoint]

the realest comment ever ohmygod

[@Sir_Slytherin]

This shit is too real.

[@Delgen1951]

true

[@ConstellationEternalLucidDream]

Too real

[@majintoguro4952]

I was working at Sam's club making 250 every two weeks, I had no water or electric in my house, applied for food stamps and got $24, then the next month they wanted the $24 back, because they said I made too much.

[@rickandhews2690]

i have been a small business owner for about ten years and watching this was like you talking to me fully aware of my personal struggle. Perfectly said sir and i am happy to say that i have over the past 2 years come to understand my place with my fellow working class. you have been part of that awakening so thank you.

[@stinky702]

@@PvblivsAelivs Did you watch the video?

[@ernststravoblofeld]

@@franciscofakelastname439 Petit-bourgoise is bourgeoisie, just the lower end. A business owner is a capitalist.

[@caiomh7605]

Why is everyone being hostile to this guy? Owning a business does not make you a rentier by definition. It is all about whether the person works or not. I know small business owners who work as much as their employees and earn almost the same. Some months, they might even earn less. The problem isn't being an owner, but being a parasite. The type of owner who extracts all the value from the company and it's employees, then invests these profits into stocks and bonds to parasite other companies.

[@ernststravoblofeld]

@@caiomh7605 Owner and rentier are two different things.

[@giganooz]

@@franciscofakelastname439 it should be mentioned however that small business owners are often also exploitative. They still extract surplus labour value and probably still won't represent the interests of the workers in decision making processes. The greatest enemy of these small business owners is larger businesses for sure, but their interests are still different than the interests of the actual working class. Unionisation and rise of co-ops will still be opposed by a lot of them out of economic interests. Maybe some will understand however, that being a worker in a society where co-ops are dominant is much better than being a small business owner in a hypercapitalist society, but it doesn't have to be a binary for them. Political groups can actually fight for the interests of small business owners. That is, oppose big companies monopolising everything but still prevent unionisation and repress workers in other ways. How sustainable that is, is a different question however.

[@TheMdog8]

Something I ask people is "If you stopped working tomorrow, what would happen?". The answer is always a version of "I'd soon become homeless", to which you can simply respond "So you need to work, to survive, yeah? Well that means you're working class, just like 99.9% of people."

[@louiscypher4186]

there's difference between being working class and a expletive that pisses away good money. If you don't know the difference you ain't working class.

[@sj-bg4up]

@@louiscypher4186 more than 60% of Americans live paycheck to paycheck. It’s more than a “pissing away your money” issue

[@louiscypher4186]

@@sj-bg4up Congratulations you're not working class. If you were would've understood what i meant and you clearly didn't.

[@j.c.2240]

@@louiscypher4186 Then explain it better

[@sj-bg4up]

@@louiscypher4186 I am lmao. But you blamed poor finances as if most the country is just people with bad finances

[@morganjonasson2947]

i have always viewed the middle class as those who have a "stable" economy, aka, an economy that pays for basic needs (house, water and food) and isnt completely doomed from the start. you can have a very great lifestyle with ferrari and everything, but if you are paying all that with credit card loans you cant call yourself middle class.

[@americancommunist6076]

doesn't matter because it doesn't exist

[@matthewfusaro2590]

That's exactly right.

[@Piketom1]

I once had a professor who was very careful to distinguish between economic and social classes. This was in the context of ancient Rome but depressingly, still rings true today. Lifestyle and privileges are more indicative of your class than how much money you have or make. Wealthy merchants (new money) were still considering working class and viewed with contempt by the leisure class (old money). The new money class in modern, western society has been old money for some time. They are the families and dynasties able to participate in politics, shape laws, and impede social mobility.

[@mysterioanonymous3206]

Rings very true to me. I live in Zürich Switzerland where that divide between old and new money is very apparent (for the insiders at least). New money doesn't really get to join the important "clubs", not that they're official "clubs" anyways. I think in Europe in particular that's highly relevant. To this day, lots of old money is from/within "aristocratic" families whose past "glory" has no place in current history. And they HATE IT. At heart, they're wannabe kings and slave owners, make no mistake about it, they absolutely detest us. Those people are nothing like you and me, they look at us like we look at ants, like we're subjects to their rule.

[@ionpopescu3167]

@@mysterioanonymous3206 Of course they will hate the masses having access to all the information ever and instant communications.. Eat the rich!

[@michaelcre8]

The biggest impediment to social mobility in America is the housing inflation caused by suburbanization. Real estate investment wasn't very profitable until suburbs sharply limited the supply of urban housing in the '50s and '60s. Boomers and their suburbs deindustrialized America by causing so much housing inflation that manufacturers could not afford to pay workers a living wage anymore. Now any effort to undo the limitation on housing supply based on single family home exclusionary zoning is decried as an attack on suburbs and the middle class. It's impossible to help people when they're as stupid as we are in America.

[@mysterioanonymous3206]

@@michaelcre8 no. The US has the most affordable housing market in the developed world. What are you talking about? You should tell that to a Dutch, or Swiss, or any urban European for that matter. They'll laugh at you. And for good reason. Seriously mate, US ranks really well in terms of affordable housing, you should Google for an actual statistic sometime.

[@michaelcre8]

​@@mysterioanonymous3206 European countries have limited housing supplies because they are much smaller countries. America was the manufacturing base of the world because it had very cheap housing in addition to cheap energy. We do still have the cheapest energy, but America started deindustrializing in the '60s because of the inflation from boomers and suburbs.

[@georgekostaras]

My parents raised me to identify as middle class. The 2008 crash disabused me of that notion

[@trxxblx-wxs-hxrx]

That was a crucial moment to experience cuz both my parents lost their primary jobs at the time 😵 and nearly on the verge of breaking up times were wild

[@georgekostaras]

@@trxxblx-wxs-hxrx same here. My parents basically lost their retirement and we nearly lost our house.

[@thejquinn]

@@georgekostaras *delayed losing their house*. Hate to break it to you but unless there is a systemic change, they're going to lose it, unless they sell it beforehand.

[@senismarsenis9678]

I identify as a banana

[@Amadeus8484]

"They call it the American dream because you have to be asleep to believe it." -George Carlin.

[@thedativecase9733]

Years ago two successful English TV comedy writers went to work in the US and told this story about why the USA was infinitely superior to the UK (the nation that had nurtured them and given them success!) It went like this " In the UK if a poor man sees a rich guy drive past in a beautiful car with a beautiful girl at his side, driving up to a big beautiful house, the poor guy will say "Yeh look at that bastard, I wonder who he's cheated and stepped on to get that!" Whereas a poor guy in the US would see the same man in the same car and say " Yes. One day that will be me". This, they said was the brilliance of the American dream and why they preferred living in the US. But how many of those believers in the American dream ever achieved that marvellous life? or even anything remotely like it?

[@JM-fo1te]

Yawn

[@rsr789]

@@thedativecase9733 That world doesn't exist anymore. Most people don't start a business and make it big. Also, let's be honest: most massive business only got that way by being thieving cutthroat bastards fucking other people over in a myriad of ways, including their own workers.

[@soggmeisterlasagnagarfield]

It's called a dream because it's not real.

[@katemiller7874]

It worked for georgevdarlin now didn’t it

[@CamdenBloke]

There was a long period of life when I definitely self-identified as lower-class (when I was relying on medicaid, etc). I managed to escape to the point where I don't keep a mental tally of the cost of groceries when I'm shopping (but still get the lower priced item of matching items) and my rent is only 20% of my take-home pay, so I kind of identify that as being middle-class. Also, it was nice to buy a new car for the first time in my life (neither a luxury car nor an econo-box). (I also put my bills on auto-pay) As someone who spent a lot of time living the reality of what I called the 'lower class', I definitely support public welfare programs similar to the ones that I relied on at times.

[@cherylT321]

👍

[@LoveStarsWorld]

How do you feel about the definition of middle class presented in the video?

[@abdelhamidsherif4995]

I went to a private school for the sons and daughters of millionaires (on a scholarship) and what kept amazing me is how those rich brats considered themselves as "Middle class"... I MEAN, FOR REAL?

[@Tessy29k]

So they're brats because they're rich and appreciated their privilege and realised it was their parents money and not theirs. Or were they just brats in general?

[@AutismGaming489]

Brats is putting it harshly. They are just unaware of their privilege. They could have admitted to being upper class if they thought about it.

[@HomeschoolVouchers]

A lot of students at private schools have their tuition paid by a grandparent, aunt, or uncle. A lot of them really do have middle class parents, with a wealthy relative.

[@oldplagu3]

aren't you part of those rich brats? don't pretend a scholarship makes you better than them

[@salioneradam]

I mean he could be right - you can be millionaire and still be a part of poor working class that can lose everything within a day. You have to realize that "rich upper class" is only very top of those rich millionaires.

[@1papaya2papaya]

This actually reminds me of something my mother told me. She said that she works, and therefore she's working class. That never really made much sense to me, since my family lives a pretty comfortable life. But now that I've seen this video, I think I understand what she meant. My family does live comfortably, but both my parents still have to work to support the family, and they are vulnerable to losing their jobs if the economy goes downhill (this has actually happened to both of my parents at some point: my mom lost her job in 2008, and more recently my dad was furloughed in 2020 because his company couldn't afford to pay everyone).

[@pramitpratimdas8198]

It's possible for an ex-capitalist to be absorbed into the working class while still reaping the benefits obtained as a capitalist. Maybe your family ran a business that helped you get quality education that helped you get quality jobs. You'd be working class for selling your labor but you definitely benefited by not starting from the bottom

[@ixlnxs]

Right on! Been saying this for years: if you have to work to make a living you are working class. You may be a surgeon or lawyer but until you can afford to stop working you are working class.

[@pramitpratimdas8198]

@@ixlnxs not really, docs are essentially petty bourgeois. There's a reason why doctors come from well to do families. In UK only 4% come from working class.

[@ixlnxs]

@@pramitpratimdas8198 "Well-to-do" or "bourgeois" are empty concepts to me. If they are not rich enough not to have to work, they are working class.

[@pramitpratimdas8198]

@@ixlnxs well how do you know he's working cuz he has to do or he's working to enrich himself further? What if he could've been totally fine collecting rent from an apartment he owns or profit from a company his family owns?

[@daniellanctot6548]

My mom’s husband recently mused as we were watching the news about how, if things keep going the way they are “... There won’t be ‘middle class people’ like YOU AND ME!...”. But, to give you an idea of who he was lumping into the same “middle class”: He owns multiple million dollar business buildings, a house and a second house “chalet”, on top of having two cars, and I rent a crumby semi-basement apartment that keeps getting more and more expensive, which I find hard to let go because it is still cheaper than worse apartments around the city and never owned a car in my life... But we are both “middle class” he says... 🙄😤🤬 #BitchPlease!

[@russellharrell2747]

Ain’t no middle class person ever owned a chalet. Maybe a shallot.

[@zackkier6257]

Maybe he realizes how fragile business is and that He could loose everything

[@Commietaku]

A chalet is a traditional wooden building in the mountains. Many middle-class people own small chalets, either as permanent residences or (usually) as secondary "cabins" or "camps." Second properties are not exclusive to the affluent! And, especially if we're talking about a primary residence, someone who owns a chalet may even live in poverty. Of course, I distinguish between personal and private property, and a large commercial ski chalet/resort is something completely different!

[@MyrddinWyllt420]

@@zackkier6257 so a pearl clutching capitalist scared of losing all their stolen money like every other capitalist.

[@potatoman7407]

@@zackkier6257 maybe then he could work towards a better future for the majority instead

[@wintermatherne2524]

I agree. The white-collar working class is particularly egregious. They literally believe they are above the blue-collar working class and I'm always so tempted to take them to school and remind them that they can gaslight the field slaves all they want, but the master knows that the house slaves are nothing but slaves too and he laughs at them all the way to the bank.

[@Sophie-kk3st]

you are working class if you have to work to maintain your lifestyle, doesn't matter which coloured collar you are. middle class was a concept created hundreds of years ago for people who actually owned assets which can produce them with passive income to maintain their middle class lifestyles, they can choose to work but they don't need to work to keep on living that life.

[@Draggonny]

The blue collar/white collar divide has changed too. Blue collar usually meant manual labour and low wages. White collar meant desk job and higher wages. Now manual labour jobs like plumbers and electricians are considered skilled labour and earn a good income. Office jobs like call centre telephony and admin roles are often minimum wage or little over. Income just doesn't consistently increase with experience or qualifications anymore, and office jobs are no longer the status symbol they once were.

[@dontmisunderstand6041]

@@Draggonny I'm not sure where you're working... I work for a roofing company. Our admin staff are making 50-70k per year, and we pay our roofers $14/hr.

[@Draggonny]

@dontmisunderstand6041 In England. Currently selling car insurance for one of the top 3 insurance brokers in the country. I get minimum wage plus 2k in antisocial hours payments plus up to £200 commission per month. I can't even buy health insurance through the company scheme because it's illegal for them to deduct from my salary as it would put me below the legal minimum. Thank god for the NHS. And this is one of the better paid jobs I've worked. I was manager on duty for 2 contact centres during the pandemic for a £2 uplift above minimum wage. I only got the uplift when I was the only manager on duty across both sites.

[@dontmisunderstand6041]

@@Draggonny I'm curious why you consider yourself a white collar worker when you're doing the grunt work. The analogue to your position in our roofing company would be worksite team leader, not admin. I am glad to hear that even low paying jobs in the UK are doing so much better than here in the US. Your pay is about 2.5x the US federal minimum. At some point, something's gotta give; the more examples of countries doing better than the US, the better chance we'll eventually do something to fix things here.

[@zed739]

Middle class really just means "I'm not embarrassed to have friends over."

[@vg7985]

You mix middle level lifestyle with middle class. It's not the same. In general, this video does not cover so called " professional class" that includes doctors, lawyers, highly paid executives- people who work, but also get money from investing.

[@zed739]

@@vg7985 get that bump on your noggin checked out dude

[@justinwatson1510]

We need to break the consumerist mindset and stop judging life by how much shit we buy.

[@Ailasher]

Or "I'm not a loser, nope. I'll get my shot, or my kids do."

[@Ailasher]

@@justinwatson1510 Will not go anywhere without getting rid of capitalism. In a society built on the idea that the ruling class actually "rules" because it get profit from production and speculation, consumption is the single and most real indicator of an individual's success. In other words, it's like trying to prove to a bunch of gym joks that their physical strength is not an advantage.

[@WoefulMinion]

Such a clear distinction between classes. This explains why I've always felt more in common with the laborers I've worked with than with the company. And why my "middle-class" parents who were managers, always stood up for their employees and were never wealthy. They were squarely in the working class their whole lives. They didn't-couldn't-think like upper management and never fit in with that class. Thank you for giving me a new perspective and a deeper admiration for them.

[@warthog473]

Wish my in laws were more like your parents. They had solid jobs and owned a big house, nice Lincoln Towncars and Continentals, always only two or three years old, travelled around the world, yet they thought of themselves as "middle class". Give me a break. My parents had a house, a crappy ranch that always needed work we couldn't afford, second hand old cars that always needed work we couldn't afford, hand me downs for clothes, no vacations, yet we were supposed to consider ourselves "middle class" because we didn't rent and had an income. My in laws looked down their noses at people like my family and never had any friends that were like us. They believed that unions were bad and encouraged people to be lazy, they felt that business owners had no obligation to give people paid time off for medical emergencies, only management really needed more than a week or two vacation time, because management did the "important" work, people who had trouble paying all their bills were lazy, unmotivated to get a better job and wasted money on stupid things they didn't need. Only Republicans deserved to get elected, all Democrats were evil and they literally called Obama Satan in front of my 10 year old son (yeah, on top of everything else they're raging racists). I can't believe my husband is related to them, he is the opposite of them in every way. Financially my husband and are are much better off than my parents but miles away from my in-laws life. We can tell it's hugely embarrassing for them but we've gotten to the point where we don't give a fuck what they think and hardly go to their house. We're sick of their elitist bullshit. For me, middle class is more about caring about how others are doing and helping out, not how much you own. "Middle Class" is a social construct made in the booming 1950's that keeps 90% of us at each others' throats while the oligarchs suck us dry.

[@rainbowkittycat627]

​@@warthog473 If we are to use a social construct vauge definition, I think "caring about how others are doing and helping out" is a much betted definition than whatever cluster the "middle class" is right now. (although obviously, working class is a much better definition.)

[@arthurkineard7356]

It is not clear at all. You are not the same as a single mom with 3 kids on welfare living in the ghetto. It is asininely over simplified. Nor do you resemble a two income family that are both medical doctors with more than 20 years of experience. That is technically working class but definitely not middle class.

[@rainbowkittycat627]

@@arthurkineard7356 Are they definitely not middle class? As the video mentioned, they would both say they are middle class. The point is that working class is a more useful definition, because both the mother and the doctor should have the same goals of workers rights. And even though that there definitely are some situations where differentiating them are important, for the most part, they should come together, because things like better benefits or debt forgiveness would help them both. And even things that might not directly benefit the doctor, such as a minimum wage increase, still indirectly effect the doctor, because if patients get paid more money, they might be able to pay sooner, take more regular visits, or better be able to take care of their health in general and not have to bother the doctor as often or with as severe issues. And obviously there is a distinction, for example, the doctor probably doesn't need food stamps, the point is that they should be on the same side because the increase access to food stamps for others could still indirectly help the doctor. Plus, what if the doctor gets laid off and isn't able to find a job and get crushed by the student loans? Then the doctor may directly benefit from the same services that the mother needs.

[@arthurkineard7356]

@@rainbowkittycat627 You are simply delusional because you lack information. 2 doctors after 20 years will never need government assistance unless they have made some incredibly bad choices. This us against them trying. No one is really against another person based on class. You don't think we give needy enough? The middle are the ones getting screwed. The rich "Class" and the poor "Class" are doing fine and have few worries. You know in another 10 years you are going to be looking back at this time wishing you had a back. Unfortunately capitalism more specifically globalism is crashing down around us. What comes after capitalisms failure? I don't know but you better get your ass moving financially because it ain't going to be pretty. You are focussing on the wrong thing. People in the world will have serious food insecurities in many countries this winter. The hope of things getting better anytime soon are about zero. But you go ahead and look for what the government can do for you. Good luck.

[@dankflyingv6345]

Shoutout to the guy in my high school government class who said he couldn’t define classes, but knew them when he saw them, and then when I made an argument for why there is only working class and capitalist class based on material class interest, he told me to “learn economics”

[@muchanadziko6378]

well, you clearly didn't understand economics, so what' the deal?

[@Tunilvien]

He was right. "Capitalist" isn't a class, it's a person who believes in the free exchange of goods. In not rich, but I'm still capitalist, not because I have capital, but because I believe In being paid fairly for my work.

[@ericgalaxies5536]

@@Tunilvien under capitalism you are far more likely to not earn what your labour is worth..

[@Tunilvien]

@@ericgalaxies5536 well that's just a straight falsehood. You think someone is going to get their proper pay under socialism? Mercantalism? Palace states? Tell me which economic system you think does a better job of achieving value for your labor?

[@ChRW123]

@@Tunilvien You're mixing things up.

[@glenbert1396]

The thing to me is, if you invest and have other income outside of dividends then you will be able to live off dividends without selling. Which means you can pass that on to your kids which will give them a leg up in life. $52k dividends received in 2022.

[@alexanderdimitar7154]

I completely agree! That is why it is recommended that you invest while still working or earning a regular income, and that you do so on a consistent basis. Even if you're investing, you still need something to keep you going. The key is good financial planning and money management.

[@gagnepaingilly]

As a new investor, it's always encouraging to hear from someone who has been through it all and come out on top. What are some successful strategies I can use?

[@shirleneunglesbee1423]

@@gagnepaingilly You should hire a financial advisor to help you diversify your portfolio by including mutual funds, exchange-traded funds (ETFs), the 11 GICS groups, inflation-indexed bonds, and stocks of companies with consistent cash flows rather than growth stocks, where prices are based on future prospective earnings. Following these principles and insights from my CFP, I have made approximately $600,000 since 2020.

[@gagnepaingilly]

@@shirleneunglesbee1423 Incredible!! A fantastic start to financial independence! How can I contact your financial planner?

[@shirleneunglesbee1423]

@@gagnepaingilly "JILL MARIE CARROLL" is a lady's name. I first saw her on a CNBC report, then on Smart Advisors, and immediately looked her up on the internet; it was the best decision I've made to stay afloat in these crazy times. She has been outstanding.

[@WorldOfWarcraftDork]

I have such a hard time talking with friends and family about this. I make about 100k a year as a truck driver and I feel like I'm still not "Middle Class". I have 65 hour work weeks, so no real free time. I won't argue that I can afford more things, but without the free time, it feels like I'm just endless working to finally enjoy my retirement

[@collenenuman4835]

Come on , you know one thing I know is that for some certain Reason, we are not well inforned well the so called middle class are the main income sources of the government has you where me my investment manager detailes me how things work out here with all this middle class stuff, if you noticed apart from the middle class the other classes done even get to pay as much tax as we do , making us a targets , he even said it that economist already said that the middle class is just another name for people who pay taxes , and at the end of the can't keep up with it and end up loosing all his/ her fund all in the name of being able of attaining the so called middle class it's never worth it the government and politician keep on benefiting too from the so called middle class believe it all not

[@collenenuman4835]

The best thing to do is getting in the safer side which is becoming a capitalist , Invest constantly , the government won't tell you this .. find a way in Invest as for me I make alot weekly with the help of my Investment , become a capitalist now

[@collenenuman4835]

Only few people know that much about becoming capital because the government has always Fraternized the definition , I trade and invest with mrs Valerie Anne. And I bet you , you won't regret it !!

[@LordXain]

@@collenenuman4835 "Don't like being a slave? The best thing to do is be a slave owner." I mean, you're not wrong, but... 😉

[@collenenuman4835]

@@LordXain hahaha lol you don't necessarily have to be one just Invest with a good investment manager who also trades Investment with infant industries which is stillt technically the same thing but better

[@annikafrankenstein]

My dad thought that because he went to university and didnt become a carpenter like his dad, that he wasnt working class anymore. I had to tell him over some beers, dad youre still working class, you just work at an office instead of a trade. Office workers are working class too. It doesnt matter how high up you ascend to management. An office manager is still working class. You can get several promotions and still be working class because at the end of the day youre working for someone else.

[@maxpayne4129]

Yeah but an office manager is still a little different. Working class yes but I'm sure a factory worker would trade places in an instant if given the opportunity.

[@ladyeowyn42]

This divide also ends up exploiting salaried office workers, who despite holding no authority over anyone, can be expected to work unpaid overtime.

[@ineedhoez]

It isn't because you work for someone else. It is because you have to work. You can own a fruit stand and still have to work for a living

[@patrickhanlon2083]

@@ineedhoez which is why the video discussed this. What's stopping Mega Fruit Mart (for example) from knocking the fruit stand out of business?

[@msiankid]

@@maxpayne4129 Definitely, even the capitalist class have millionares and billionaires, the millionares would trade places in an instant. But the point is, people have been misled, the entire point of this video is to highlight this fact, and also to paint a picture that society has been shaped this way for centuries and in the words of the World Economic Forum: "you are not going to own anything, and you will be happy"

[@EternalQuestion]

I'm from the UK. We invented this type of class system and here's how it really works. (Please remember I'm British and therefore I've sprinkled in an appropriate level of satire) Working class: You left school as soon as possible to start work in a job focusing mainly on physical labour. You will not have had a good education and you probably have a strong regional accident. You don't put a lot of emphasis on the importance of culture and you don't like flashy or expensive things. You are proud to be working class because you know that you are the backbone of the country and without people like you, everything would fall apart. You mostly see the upper classes as a bunch of useless posh twats. Middle class: You stayed in school for longer and you probably went to university or took part in some form of higher education. Your parents pushed you to do well at school, possibly a little bit too hard. You were also encouraged to take part in extra curricular activities such as learning a musical instrument, playing sport or learning a language. Culture is very important to you, as having an appreciation for the finer things in life is how you differentiate yourself from the working class. Also you know that the upper classes are really big on culture and you REALLY want to be like them. Having a nice house, a luxury car (or two) and wearing expensive designer clothes are important to you, as they are status symbols that indicate you're a successful person. It's very important to you that other people realise that. If you ever had a regional accent to begin with, you've probably tried to get rid of it, in order to sound less working class. Perish the thought that someone might think you were. Your life revolves around climbing the socio-economic ladder as much as possible. You're not really proud to be middle class (you wish you were upper class), but at least you know you're not some working class barbarian... Upper class: Life is great because you're just better than everyone else. You know this because of your heriditary titles and the fact you live at a country estate which has been passed down through generations of your family. You probably went to school with royalty, because Daddy has connections with all the top educational institutions. You definitely went to Oxford, Cambridge or at the very least another excellent university with a history dating back hundreds or years (just like your family's titles and wealth). You never really had to work for anything because you don't NEED to work at all, due to being 'old money'. Of course it's nice to do some charity work or philanthropy to help out the lower classes, the poor darlings... Your accent is horrendously plummy. Regional accents are for those who didn't grow up in the better parts of the home counties. You're not even putting it on or exaggerating it for effect (even though it sounds that way to the lower classes). That's just how you speak, because you only mix with other members of the upper class and they all speak that way too. You've literally never known anything else. Culture is the most important thing in the world to you, as it's the primary mechanism by which you demonstrate your superiority. You don't try too hard though, because being sophisticated comes effortlessly and naturally to you. After all, it's all you've ever known. The working classes are a bit of a mystery to you. You've never eaten a sausage roll and to be honest you're not entirely sure what one is. It sounds terribly revolting though. The middle class are OK, you suppose. They do seem to have some appreciation for the finer things, although it's rather vulgar how they insist on trying so hard all the time. You know that the truly sophisticated go about their lives with an effortless elegance that they were born to. Obviously you're proud to be upper class. How could you not be when you're so obviously better than everyone else? As you can see, class is about much more than just money. And being pre-occupied with money is incredibly middle class anyway.

[@reijiriffic]

loved this comment

[@cheekylovelycockatiels2058]

nice one

[@danielmaher964]

This comment is the right answer, but Marx liked the video better.

[@laneythelame]

Lmao that was brilliant

[@HappyCatholicDane]

Perfect answer 👍

[@mathisnotforthefaintofheart]

I find it very interesting to see that in the US, lower/middle/upper class is defined by income (financials) whereas in the UK, class is determined by education and family back ground. A rich soccer player in the UK is NOT considered upper class, whereas a college professor IS upper class. In the US it is "easier" to transfer from one class to another, but in the UK it doesn't work that way.

[@miguelcoronel7672]

US class sounds like just economic class, while UK sounds like socio-economic class

[@SC-dm1ct]

All that really matters is power. Wealth is the most common means of achieving it. I'm sure if someone in the UK built a robot army and held hostage the nation and its people, ruling like a god, their class would be whatever they said it was. Those who disagreed would be purged. Class distinctions are often just a reflection of, but not a defining state, of power.

[@mathisnotforthefaintofheart]

@@miguelcoronel7672 Well I have family in UK so this discussion takes place more than once (in a good sense)

[@noahraab2429]

That sounds quite snobby.

[@mathisnotforthefaintofheart]

@@noahraab2429 In a way it is....But that's how it works over there according to my family living there. Money is not the decisive factor

[@peterlewis2178]

I've never thought of middle class as a specific range of income, but more in terms of financial security. I always thought of it as having enough money and income to never have to worry about staying alive, but also not having enough money to be completely free of financial worries. The lower class has to worry about making enough to stay alive, the upper class has enough that they don't really have to worry about anything unless they're really stupid with their money, and the middle class is, well, in the middle..

[@carparthero]

@peterlewis2178 well said. only rebuttal i could possibly have is that there's too many ppl that think they are actually middle class, when in reality they are really working class on steroids lol. for example i have a decent-paying unskilled unionized labor job. i move cars in the yard at a car plant. i am grateful for my job. with overtime ppl can make 70k-85k CAD. without it the guys/girls at my job are at $52-55k CAD. however that depends on the plant running, the economy, and how well the cars are selling. i'd say up till 2017 a person could get into the home ownership game. now in november 2022, it's forget about it. with my job i consider myself working class, and it;s what i do outside (having a stream or two of income independent of my linear-income labor job) to get to where i want to be.

[@belkyhernandez8281]

Yup

[@belkyhernandez8281]

@@carparthero working class and middle class aren't mutually exclusive.

[@carparthero]

@@belkyhernandez8281 both have limited belief systems, so that's one common denominator. another would be they both earn linear incomes. they trade time for a paycheck. 🤷🏼‍♂

[@LEARNING-67]

You can never be 90% financially secured with out-of-control medical bills. Some misharp happens and you can go broke instantly! Cancer bill can cost millions! And you can get cancer at any age! So if you go by financial security, there's no measurement for it!

[@BostonRobb]

We need a “second thought” solidarity movement in society

[@alfatejpblind6498]

It'd be such a celebratory event that we could call it... a party

[@benjaminallisonii724]

...socialism?

[@lisa5249]

DSA needs to be a proper party for the progressives....with candidates and stuff!

[@mansory7996]

No we don't

[@kingofthenights156]

It will only happen through civil war.

[@piccalillipit9211]

*IM AN AUTHOR* on psychology and the collapse of civilisations - I've been telling people that there is NO middle class for years... Its a fabrication to make you feel good and stop you from asking for more, you get to look down on the working class and they get to look down on the minorities and they get to look down on the homeless - and homelessness is a GOVERNMENT DECISION to keep you too scared to quit your job - here in Bulgaria, we don't have homeless people* *a small number of undocumented immigrants in the capital - about 1500 - don't have homes.

[@runningbetweenspaces]

Is it easy to get citizenship?

[@Beannqueen]

@Piccalilli Pit, where can I find your writings???

[@Vivivofi]

Is our civilisation in the process of collapse?

[@piccalillipit9211]

@@runningbetweenspaces - Citizen ship - not so easy, but a visa is very easy to get as they have a declining population. Its a very beautiful place and very affordable - my beachside apartment is $150 a month [thats cheap even for here $250 would be more mornal] Being en ex-communist country the entire structure of the place is designed for the benefit of the people and not profit- my city of 250k people has 26 hospitals so they are super local cos thats good. The schools are the same I counted over 50 schools on G-maps cos its nice to have a school within walking distance of your apartment.

[@piccalillipit9211]

@@Vivivofi - YES. Sorry. But dont stress too much - its what civilisations do. This is the list of contributing factors to societal collapse: Plague / disease Yes Environmental change Y Massive wealth inequality Y Loss of the administrative class Y The government stops governing Y Attack from the outside - now includes cyber attack Y Loss of faith in the political system Y Economic collapse Y Exposed obvious corruption Y Crumbling infrastructure Y Mismanagement of a crisis Y Societal division Y Loss of belief in the unity of the society Y Restriction of international trade / loss of trade agreements Y Increased isolationism Y Rising internal violence Y Excessive spending on military / arms race Yes Inability to maintain the currency - hoarding / devaluation / inflation Y If a majority of things on the list happen to a civilisation simultaneously, it is invariably the end for that civilisation. If all happen at the same time, it's guaranteed to be the end. The USSR collapsed with 9 out of the 18. America scores 18/18. And you have reached "cascading interconnected systems failure" - everything is broken and everything you need to fix it is also broken. My home country, the UK scores 17/18 The only question left is can you MANAGE the collapse? Will it be like the end of the British Empire - or Yugoslavia 1992. If you subscribe to me my new book "ADRIFT IN THE SHARK TANK - how to cope in a post-pandemic world" will be published shortly and it is specifically on how to cope with the collapse, because most people instinctively know its happening and this is in large part why so many people are not coping at the moment. A recent survey showed that 70% of Americans have a diagnosable mental health problem. Im hoping to do my bit to help this.

[@jesseyoung7855]

A while back I dug into the data published by the US department of labor and statistics to find what an even distribution of income would look like. Which is more difficult than one may think. I had to extrapolate it from multiple sources, but what I found was that the average income is between $200-250,000/yr. For people that understand statistics, such a huge difference between median and mean incomes says a lot. I think an important topic here is our sense of valuation. We often believe certain people, skills, and contributions are worth more. And to a significant degree it is rather arbitrary. Some people feel being smart is better than being strong, for example. Some people feel that the contributions of individuals that actually make the products, and break their literal backs in the process, are worth less than the contributions of people that sit in chairs and talk on phones all day. If we compare this system to a mechanical watch, many people think the hands on the face of the dial is most important, but if we remove any of the cogs, the watch stops working. Every necessary piece of the system is important, and has value.

[@themusicman669]

Correct, but the whole “equality of outcome” mentality rarely works out the way you want it to.

[@MylesKillis]

@@themusicman669yes but some people aren’t cogs in the society machine but dirt that clings on to the side and claim to be part of the watches “character”.

[@matthewandrews2757]

Metropolis.

[@RedScareClair]

The only thing that separates you is how precarious your situation is at that moment. That is so frigging true. No matter how much my husband and I work and no matter how much money we make it never feels like enough. It always feels like you're 1 bad accident away from bankruptcy. Because unless you are mega rich.... That's exactly what the case is.

[@tiamarie1226]

I agree

[@JohnSmith-vm8rx]

Yes! Great comment!

[@Praisethesunson]

If you are two months of not working away from absolute catastrophy. Congratulations and welcome to the working class precariat.

[@xavierjones6852]

Yeah, great comment. Almost all of us are on a tight rope rn. It can all come crashing down anytime

[@Lincoln_Bio]

THIS. Thank you for this. Classic divide and conquer innit. If you don't own rental property or a corporation you're a wage slave like the rest of us. The vast majority of the population are living 2 or 3 paychecks away from homelessness...or 1 serious illness if you're in the US, your terrifying healthcare system levels the playing field even further. Solidarity y'all.

[@G_FRE]

Your profile picture looks PROFOUNDLY GAY. Love it.

[@PraveenSrJ01]

Definitely agree

[@mansory7996]

U realize that ceos that make millions but dont own the company are wage workers or the proletariat by marxist standards ?

[@Lincoln_Bio]

@@mansory7996 Yes because class isn't about earning a particular amount of money, it's about precarity and the relationship to the means of production (or, more increasingly in the modern economy, the means of distribution) Did you watch the video? It's basically the whole point of the video. Although CEO pay packages usually include stock options so they kind of do own the company anyway.

[@mansory7996]

@@Lincoln_Bio This video is based on outdated Marxist theory form 19th century. Ur relationship to the means of production doesn't dictate how u live or how commies like to say "material conditions". A guy employing 50 ppl may, and does, earn less then a corporate CEO who makes 10 million. Yet the ceo is the proletariat while the employer is bourgeois. And No communist cares about small business owners especially second thought

[@jackneison]

An important note here that wasn't mentioned in this video is the fact that the petite bourgeoisie (small business owners) are the target demographic of fascism, precisely because they are simultaneously eaten by the big bourgeoisie (large corporations), and labor organizing/unionization is a much larger threat to their bottom line than it is to larger corporations, which have more of an ability to eat the cost of higher wages and still turn a profit than small businesses do (this isn't a defense of large corporations in any way, nor is it a claim that large corporations are in any way friendly to unions, because they're not--it's simply an analysis of divisions that are caused by way of material conditions under capitalism). I know you used the caveat of "a small business owner who makes most of their money through their own labor," but that's more along the lines of an independent contractor than most small business owners. Small businesses tend to be the *most* labor exploiting because *they have to be*. The smaller the profit margins, the more necessary it is to cut/steal wages, have shitty working conditions, etc. Just an additional point I find important.

[@Baraborn]

The answer is Worker Cooperatives = collective ownership.

[@saltyyankee5149]

Jack, right with you. My state feels like its in a constant war against small business. It's easier to control (or be controlled) by big business, big retail, etc than it is to foster niche businesses and opportunities. During the 2020 lockdown, the mask came off and our state put 38% of small businesses out to slaughter and they haven't come back. The trillions gathered by the 5 biggest companies was nearly identical to the collective loss of trillions in the small business economy that year.

[@autohmae]

" Small businesses tend to be the most labor exploiting because *they have to be*. " I actually think this is just because of government policies. Because the combined government policies determine how easy it is to give workers a living wage.

[@jackneison]

@@Baraborn I mean, sure. Socialism is the answer to the class divide, period. But small business owners are capitalists; they don't want their enterprises running as coops because they would no longer be the private owner of them. This is why right wing populism (and fascism itself) appeals to them. As an agitprop campaign, it claims to speak for "the little guy" within the bourgeois class, but "the little guy" in this case is just as oppressive and exploitative as "the big guy," if not more. The only real way for socialism to appeal to small business owners is for us to show them that they, as individuals, will be better off under socialism than they would be under any far-right regime. In many cases they would be, but certainly not in all. And even if they would be materially better off, they would no longer be the boss. I was really just trying to point out the reactionary tendencies of the petite bourgeoisie. This is a function of capitalist competition. They are part of the ruling class, but they don't *feel* like they are because the competition is so much bigger and powerful than they are. Right wing populist propaganda tells them that we can keep the existing hierarchical structure and put them at the top of it (whether or not that would actually be the result is another question entirely). I don't really know the solution for this problem, but I also don't think we should be fetishizing or praising small business owners in any way. They, too, are enemies of the working class, and in certain ways (primarily socially and politically), they're a more dangerous enemy than the big bourgeoisie because they're so prone to reactionary thinking due to their place in the economy.

[@benjaminchylla5212]

@@jackneison Even small black business owners?

[@fahmidamiah]

I love this video, thank you for it ❤ I grew up in poverty by UK standards, a third culture kid to Bangladeshi immigrants. I crawled my way out of there, but it was very apparent to me in my 20s that the Middle Class is a myth. I actually refer to the so-called Middle Class as the “new poor”. It’s the people who aren’t quite low income, but do have a job or skills that keeps them mostly employed. But with the way Capitalism works and this global cost of living crisis, it keeps the people who are just crawling into “Middle Class” territory, poor. The system is meant to keep people down. Worker bees are required. Lower income groups keep workers bees preoccupied - they need someone closer to their homes to blame. Anyways, I would love to collaborate with you one day; I hope my channel will grow and tackle more of these subjects (I really care about them). For now, thank you for waking people up. ❤

[@sasentaiko]

Agreed agreed. I like "new poor"; it's like nouveau riche, but more honest. I have family that immigrated from Bangladesh too, just via India first bc of partition. ;) I feel like the concept of the middle class is often so important to immigrant family values and expectations; I admit it took me even longer to really get how poisonous an idea it is.

[@holeymcsockpuppet]

I've always defined classes by what they are able to do with their money...the power of their income. So middle class can buy a home, save/invest, and take full vacations. Working poor live paycheck to paycheck, home ownership is out of reach, and getting sick is your vacation. You get the idea. But I like this two category idea better.

[@soapa4279]

I like your take on it. And to add from what I've noticed from being poor myself, to living comfortably today. Being poor I lived paycheck to paycheck, no savings, no retirement, no vacations, etc. barely getting by day to day in a cycle of frustration and hard work. Didn't own anything, cars, homes, etc. As I broke out of the cycle, after all the basic needs are already taken care of, I can invest the extra money and make even more money. Even my regular day job, the higher position I have moved up, the easier the work has become. The old adage "The rich get richer" rings true. So yeah I definitely agree there's an actual line you can draw to separate the two categories of people. The other nuance is this also depends where you live.

[@TheTroutyness]

Even home ownership isn’t for sure. Most house owners are house poor and cannot afford repairs.

[@nikitachirich7985]

So middle class today is someone who owns an apartment complex or a business and takes full vacations has 1 year of income saved in a bank and plans to live on dividends after retirement aka the 1.00% rich ? Lol becaus your working poor definition right now defines 99% of Americans.

[@holeymcsockpuppet]

@@nikitachirich7985 yes, working poor defines most Americans. It's not quite 99% though. It's about 75%. Working poor was only about 30%. But it has risen as economic extraction has continued since we went to a fiat currency (off the gold standard) in the US in 1971. There really isn't much of a "middle class" anymore. 60% of Americans don't have $400 to cover an emergency because housing even before "the infection" had gone to 50% of income. Maximum is 30% of income before it begins to unbalance the economy and eat away at the middle class.

[@holeymcsockpuppet]

@@TheTroutyness good observation.

[@catalyst8]

It's fascinating how U.S. Americans generally seem to define class by money, whereas Europeans use the metric of education & type of employment (i.e. typically the 'professional' class) to define social standing regardless of actual wealth. Great video with a relevant socio-political commentary. Bravo!

[@alexreid1173]

Tbh I think that might be because your basic needs can still be met in most European countries even if you don’t work at a great job. This is not true for many Americans, where even the “middle class” struggles to afford things like healthcare.

[@catalyst8]

@@alexreid1173 That's a good point which simply hadn't occurred to me. I forget how... I'll say 'limited' to be diplomatic, I forget how limited the U.S. is socially. Mind you here in Britain we seem to be doing our very best to destroy our own social advances made over the last century or so, so I can't be too condemning.

[@saltyyankee5149]

the class distinction depends on who you want to control. There is another a/b test in the USA: does your work keep society running, or do you work in an air conditioned office cubicle where daily activity gives no direct benefit to society. Your A/C tech fixing equipment to keep people comfortable v a non descript paper pusher that creates no value or discernable service..

[@davidpaterson2309]

Also British. I used to work in marketing and read a lot of case studies in FMCG market research into “class” in the U.K., centred around the socio-economic groups A, B, C1, C2, D & E where the “middle class” is the large group that includes B & C1. Never forget attending a research presentation where they painted word pictures of class difference in Britain and said eg “our field researchers can place you fairly accurately if you let them look in your fridge, then in your kitchen cupboard, then on your bookshelf - of course, the first clue there is that you have actually got a bookshelf - and then tell them where you go on holiday”. Education and taste, not necessarily money - except of course that good education influences taste and tends to lead to well paid employment. I have family in the US (immigrants now citizens) and they find it fascinating that nearly everyone in America thinks they’re “middle class” and put it down to it being egalitarian in theory (if certainly not in practice) - so almost no one wants to think of themselves as “upper class” (= snobbery, pretension) or “working class” (= unsuccessful, vaguely socialist).

[@autohmae]

@@catalyst8 One of the things which I think has been instrumental and similar to the US might be the right wing media. Maybe especially lead by a certain Rupert Murdoch ?

[@BradyRamaker]

For small business owners, i frame it as such: "administration is labor, owning things is not"

[@rasger302]

Actually owning is labor.

[@BradyRamaker]

@@rasger302 a shareholder doesnt HAVE to work for their money. They simply own them. The administration of keeping track of them can he outsourced to a job. Its called "passive income" for a reason- you own it, it is not work, whatever contrary notion you hold doesnt matter, sorry.

[@Bleilock1]

@@BradyRamaker well i guess it depends on the type of ownership we are talking about if you own a land for example instead of shares, well than you have quite a lot of labour ahead of you if you want to retain the same value of the land that you had when you bought it, or if you even wish it grows in value land wont magically work on itself (yet you still own it), and well, if you hire somebody to work on your land than idd administration becomes your labor and owning stops, but at that moment its potato potatoe

[@bather7483]

@Bleilock1 Managing and improving land is absolutely labour. Owning shares or owning property that you outsource management to it is not. Labour is usually valuable, owning limited resources is not.

[@Bleilock1]

@@bather7483 i know dude My point was that saying owning something doesnt mean you wont have to work on it, yes you can outsource the labour (btw outsourcing also isnt a vad thing always, after all you only have two hands and you can work on only so much at the time) But the point is, it depends on what kind of ownership we are talking about and if it will end up in labour or not There are moral and immoral practices in bussiness (immoral are always most profitable when it comes to $)

[@Noone-of-your-Business]

By this definition, most academic jobs - that earn more money than "unskilled" labor, but also _cost_ a *lot* before you get the first paycheck - are _working class._ Like engineers and teachers and even _banking_ these days. Makes sense.

[@fuzzywuzzyangel7646]

They're collecting tons of student loan debt beforehand so they're not entirely better off financially.

[@ФедяКрюков-в6ь]

Well, it is even more that that. Even if you are well-paid rocket engineer, you do not own a rocket you designed in any sense. You live off from what an Elon Musk who profiteer on the rocket gives you. At any given time the Elon Musk is free to close the business and kick you out in the open despite the fact you may want to design space rockets, or if the rockets you've designed are in great demand, or whatever. A wageslave is still a slave, even if he is currently in favor of his master. In that case a petty farmer with his own strip of land, who you may deem to be a working class also, is in much better spot, because he at least gets all the crops he harvest and is free to do with the fruits of his labour whatever he wants. It doesn't mean farmers and similar petty owners are fancy nowadays, because major owners (aka capitalists) choke them with mortgage loans and monopolization of markets. That phenomenon is called 'proletarization of petty bourgeoisie' which means all those small businesses become indistinguishable from casual employment on some major corporation.

[@Dudebrush4pwood]

Retail banking in the US is actually a geat example of a 2 class system masquerading as 3 classes. The majority of workers (tellers, customer service reps, call center / help desk reps, entry level operations specialists, etc.) are unskilled and are barely making it paycheck to paycheck. The middle tier of managers, commercial lenders, insurance and investment brokers, and mid-level IT/technical/operations specialists are absolutely murdering themselves trying to attain the "middle class" dream of relative financial freedom and security, but are just as much working class as bottom tier. The elite top executives, board members, and major shareholders make up the capitalist class that the vast majority of the working population could never hope to become part of by the sweat of their brow alone. Only vast generational wealth and/or extreme luck in the markets (or the lottery) buys your ticket into that club these days.

[@leonardo.diCATio]

So many jobs that lead to you being able to help people, such as teachers or doctors, are locked behind a paywall. And we wonder why there's so many shortages?

[@LEARNING-67]

Of course they are working class, wtf..

[@lauracisneros6254]

I’m sharing this with everyone. This is pure gold. People need to understand the “middle class” is a political instrument to make them chase public decisions that go against their own interest. Excellent video.

[@brownflat8837]

Share this instead kzbin.info/www/bejne/nHSUdaioZ7xmqrM

[@coolioso808]

Politics is nasty under this oppressive socio-economic system, and you are right, it comes with all sorts of political tricks. Let's not forget that the system is the sickness. The system isn't sustainable, so changes, if any, should be aimed at the root of the system and be ready to build a better system, like a RBE, without the need for politics, poverty and war to rule the day.

[@arthurkineard7356]

What interests are people voting against? You give politicians far too much credit. I understand it was a short video but to take much from it is difficult. I guess ideas are powerful.

[@holstonmatt]

@@arthurkineard7356 dont most people want free health care and stuff like that

[@arthurkineard7356]

@@holstonmatt Yes.

[@DCMarvelMultiverse]

I remember being an on-air reporter reporting that the IRS at that time listed the 1% as just over $300K. Plus, the market basket and poverty line being manipulated makes middle class a moot point at best.

[@Matthew.E.Kelly.]

Imagine that figure being used in today's market. That would mean if you had enough money to buy an average home in middle America using 6x the median income, you were "part of the 1%" -- it's just ludicrous to even consider. Those are all words, & they're real numbers, but strung together in that way? In that particular order? What do they even _mean_ really? It's all obfuscation. Also I just noticed your display name & you will be happy to know that I have pre-ordered the new printing of Wonder Woman by George Peréz omnibus & just bought the War of the Gods complete collection yesterday 😁 I mostly collect & restore/re-sell Marvel (CGC gets ALL of my money 😭😭😭) but I branched out into DC last year.

[@Sharyf]

Which also makes you a middle class btw.

[@Matthew.E.Kelly.]

@@Sharyfwhich part makes him middle class & how? We need some clarification. Because there's no qualifiers at work here that we can discern.

[@DCMarvelMultiverse]

@@Matthew.E.Kelly. I did a tribute video to George months ago. I love his work and he is missed. I do videos on 69-86 DC. A truly overlooked era unless it is Titans and Batman.

[@erupendragon7376]

Middle class empirical requirements for 2020: You own the place you live + 1 million US dollar equivalent in liquid assets. That means 1 million dollars you can realistically access in cash within 5 days. Also that must be an asset, not liability. Taking Mortgage line of credit does not count. Also if you owe more than 30% on your mortgage + other debt liabilities: does not count. You are fucking poor. Accept it. My parents were middle class, not anymore. I am an over educated, overqualified poor fuck.., just like virtually everyone. Stop calling yourself middle class.

[@erupendragon7376]

@@JohnSmith-mc2zz it’s probably a lot more today. Last time I worked in Econ research was a few years ago. What makes the generalization possible is that globalization has standardized many prices around the world. The biggest outlier was housing, but even that one is merging to a median in all major urban centers world wide. So step one. How much money does a household need to change their social class? Let’s say a poor family wins the lottery of 1 million US in 1980. That is enough to move to a middle class house, pay taxes and expenses for 5 years, plus pay for re-education. (Everything we are lead to believe was a requirement for middle class) That amount would change on geographical area, but today is pretty close world wide. London, Toronto, NY, or even places like Hochi Ming City have very similar housing prices for what is now considered luxury dwellings, but in the idealized white America was the standard. So: middle class equal Y. Sigma, housing + expenses+ cost of education to a profession that pays x (X is currently over 100k a year and growing fast) all variables under qualifier “t”. Time that requires a household to achieve this level of stability currently 5-6 years. Also growing since we are forced to spend more time in school. 1 million US is a Wild average, but easy to adjust to specific amounts with more information about a particular household. Second thought would disagree because he is Communist. When I was his age I was equally naive. Today I understand to think both as how the would should hypothetically work, and how does it actually work. As a parent I cannot raise my children as communists in a world that clearly is not. You have to learn how to survive in both and the in-between.

[@jettanyx1]

I read somewhere once that middle class were home owners and made 100k+ a year and I was like; we’re all screwed. I think the middle class vanished a long time ago and it’s on life support as some carrot the rich dangle in front of us poors

[@visionaeryproductions503]

As a 5 year business owner... I completely relate to everything youve spoken about in this video.

[@mansory7996]

What ? u realize that these ppl "socialist's" want u dead bc u have been exploiting someone for 5 years ?

[@visionaeryproductions503]

@@mansory7996 Well, no, not at all. Cant believe that is what you gathered from this video and my comment. Lol Mostly that the American dream is dead, and that small business owners likely wont succeed in the long run due to stiff competition with megacorporations that create monopolies through mergers and acquisitions. As a small business owner, I am working class, I am exploited for my labor as well.

[@mansory7996]

@@visionaeryproductions503 1 Ofc we won't say that, socialists are extremely deceptive. He wants to trick you into giving him more power. How can i prove that ? easily, he does a podcast with 2 other ppl called deprogram, one of them is Hakim (u can find him on YT). This hakim guy openly support USSR and STALIN and MAO etc. Now answer honestly this question, do you think that ppl who defend ussr and Stalin want you to have a better life ? 2 Every business was a small business at one point, yes most businesses don't succeed that's the point, competition will drive out businesses who didn't serve the customer well. Customer benefaction is literally the whole purpose of a business. Who and How is exploiting you ?

[@visionaeryproductions503]

@tommy Tentz I started my video production business so I could make a living doing what I love to do, creating videos/films. In order to support that, it has to profitable so I can manage my living expenses. All of my contractors get paid before I do. If it grows into something huge and extremely profitable, great. If I end up making an average salary while meeting my living expenses and doing what I love, year after year, great. If it fails, well, it was worth a shot. If you're from the IRS, yes I'm in business to make profit.

[@arthurkineard7356]

I have a company with about 30 employees. I live well by living on about 10% or less of revenue and invest 20% of revenue back into the business. The business requires 70% of revenue to keep the doors open. The dream is real but is not easy.

[@EcnoTheNeato]

Appreciate you adding "and mental" when talking about what constitutes working labor. Sometimes people get too caught up in the romanticization of physical labor.

[@Atsumari]

Sometimes social work and repairing peoples lives is more stressful than a physical job is physically stressful when both are compared on "stress" levels but it is not often compared; sadly.

[@marthamryglod291]

@@Atsumari my dad is a contractor and my mom is a social worker and when I was a kid, they would be exhausted for entirely different reasons. My mom relaxed by talking to no one and baking, or gardening, and my dad turned in to a zombie and stared at the TV while playing guitar at the same time.

[@robertblume2951]

@@Atsumari because stress levels isn't hazard levels.

[@j.c.2240]

@@Atsumari That would be a fascinating study on who has a more stressful job according to employee reports. If there's a way to have participants swap jobs for a few weeks, even better!

[@SeanWinters]

@@Atsumari If you can do it on a couch then I can't take you seriously. I mean, good for you "fixing people's lives", just hard to care about your stress while I'm running pipes and digging ditches to ensure proper sanitation.

[@romanvinogradovby]

As a non-native speaker it's especially super cool to learn all these phrases like "screw them up" and "listen up, bucko". Like it so much! You not gonna hear this at your local language school lul :-)

[@andbelov]

Для меня он так быстро трещит, что не всё понятно. На 0,75 норм.

[@isilbaevnikita]

I'm absolutely agree with u:)

[@zanmurn]

Listen up bucko is just gonna make you sound like youre 70 years old haha

[@Football-we4sm]

@@andbelov включай субтитры автоматические и слушай так, со временем слух адаптируется и будешь и без субтитров и с обычной скоростью всё понимать.

[@andbelov]

@@robdeskrd It is a Russian colloquial/slang word meaning "to speak fast" or "to talk a lot". But the more direct meaning is "to make cracking sounds".

[@thermalerosion4556]

The part where you mentioned the fantasy of hoping to break out of the working class and into the capitalist class reminded me of a time in history class where we learned that the reason many southern U.S. farm workers in the pre-Civil War era supported the plantation system was because they hoped to one day become plantation owners themselves, even though it was virtually impossible. And thus the snake eats its tail.

[@francisdec1615]

The German Brown Shirts were similar. They were >90% working class or even lumpenproletariat thugs, yet they pictured themselves as Aryan supermen. Didn't work out well for them...

[@vontrances4667]

I grew up training as a gymnast, a sport that is prohibitively expensive in the US because its very rare in high schools, and high school is far too late to start anyways, so clubs are the only option for those who want to go far. Despite this, of the people i trained with throughout my childhood, a group of probably like forty-fifty people total, around ten actually were what i would have called "upper class" or as a normal person says "rich" or "wealthy". More common in fact, was kids who quit because the cost was too much (i was like eight in 2008 so that should explain a lot). Not a single one of those people ever referred to themselves as such, despite knowing they were the children of rich parents and some of them attending stupidly fancy private schools. This won't be suprising to everyone who watched the video, but they all behaved in a way that showed they were deeply ashamed of it. Not to mention insecure about it. The flip side of that wealth, was the half of us who's parents put themselves in pretty risky situations just to keep their kid training. None of were ever judgemental from either direction of the wealth side, we knew it was out of our control, and i think this dynamic, and the fact that we were all great friends who all hung out at each others homes, made all of us really come to grips with the injustice of this system at a very young age. The end result of this being the shame i mentioned before. That shame had the obvious effect and is the reason i'm telling this story here: If you asked those of us who had wealthy parents if they were upper class, or straight up called them upper class or rich after they do some rich people shit like a cruise through Europe, building a multi-million dollar mansion, driving a tesla at sixteen (and then crashing it weeks after... also you get it), they'd get defensive and say they were "upper middle class". The reality was much more cruel for the non-rich obviously. The wealthy ones felt ashamed, but still gained immense privilege, and rarely had to face that privilege (though far more than their classmates and family). Everyone else... well you know because most likely you're living it right now. Thought this was an interesting example of this phenomenon coming from the perspective of an adolescent.

[@DaFinkingOrk]

I think stuff like that is why it's really important for people to mix outside of their 'class' at a young age, otherwise stereotypes and lack of empathy (in either direction) can be a lot more common. Fairly uplifting story thanks.

[@abelsoo5465]

@@DaFinkingOrk Class intermingling can also result in a sense of jealousy , injustice and inferiority complex on one side while denigration, apathy and superiority complex on the other side.

[@Kamdrimar]

@@abelsoo5465 It's still the lesser evil, though. You can't have mutual empathy without actually getting to know one another as people.

[@abelsoo5465]

@@Kamdrimar Agreed.

[@melloncollic]

True class consciousness is the most important thing for us to develop and help others develop if want to get somewhere. Thanks as always for this really good explanation of things!

[@yt_nh9347]

I really don't think he did a good job with this one, you can always define which percentage of the population belongs to which class based on household income and where they sit on the distribution. There is no funny maths involved

[@melloncollic]

@@yt_nh9347 not by the Marxist definition of class which he uses. That's the point.

[@TheFinagle]

@@yt_nh9347 Sure, but thats how you perpetuate the problem. And that continues to put 'money first' as the driver of peoples lives which is how those who have keep those who have less down and fighting each other. We need to begin the process of moving beyond that before it destroys us.

[@freethinker3083]

I didn’t grow up in a home that talked about economics or politics. I just knew we were poor, but not “dirt poor”. I’ve been trying to wrap my head all of this starting now at 30. So thank you! This was very helpful and makes a lot of sense.

[@longarmsgiraffe0955]

So after watching this video, what is your plan now? Concede that you are "working class" and go on being poor but not dirt poor? I don't hear anything in this video about how to better your own personal situation. It just seems to encourage people to stay beaten down. Sure we all might be working class but I'm a helluva lot better off than some of my working class peers. Its very true, you shouldn't blame and compete against those lower than you on the economic ladder. But there is 100% nothing wrong with trying to work your way up that ladder, even if you realize you will never be a billionaire.

[@HyperWolf]

@@longarmsgiraffe0955 The video is literally talking about how we should learn what these terms actually mean to better understand the policies being put forth by politicians that only seek to keep the wealthy wealth. It’s about gauging wether a policy will actually help you and people like you instead of being tricked by the wording “middle class” and assuming you’re somehow part of the group that will see benefits.

[@longarmsgiraffe0955]

@@HyperWolf Very true. We should all be aware of how the corrupt A-holes in Washington use language to manipulate us. But I can still gauge myself (financially) on if we make enough to comfortably support our family. And also look for ways to make our family more comfortable If the point of the video is to point out how said corrupt politicians use vague language to climb their own ladder I agree, but that's not what I got from the video. The message I got it, "it's all rigged against you. You'll never be a billionaire to give up." In my experience there is the uber poor and the uber rich, then the "middle class." But that middle class has 100 different tiers to it. Work your way up to one that supports the lifestyle your family wants and be happy. But yea man. I think we mostly agree. I just didn't like the defeatist attitude I took away but I completely get your point

[@RealShaktimaan]

@@longarmsgiraffe0955 This channel teach people how to develop loser mentality.

[@havokbaphomet666]

@@longarmsgiraffe0955 from what you've said, seems to me you didn't watch and digested the video.

[@a.m.teague6219]

Reminds me of the Warren Buffet quote about how, if you don't find a way to make money while you sleep, you will likely die working. Realizing if you flip that he's saying it's not ideal to live your life as a worker. It's a shame because a life of honest work is one of virtue, and were our resources distributed differently, it could also more regularly be experienced as one of dignity.

[@alexeyp83]

While I agree with many of the views, the irony of tackling this topic, talking to mainly the working class, and then advertising Amazon at the end did not go unnoticed

[@galamotshaku]

he's part of the working class and as a youtuber he has to sell a service monopolized by amazon to survive

[@rachelmeyer512]

same thought here - felt icky to get encouraged to purchase a service you could pick up for free from your local library, especially in the context of this video. I think if the sponsorship had come from a smaller business or brand, it would've been more welcome. but talking of monopolies and then doing ad content for an Amazon product is a lot lol.

[@amyx231]

We all gotta eat.

[@Serenadesong]

@@galamotshaku He's not selling his labor to Amazon for survival. He is partnering with Amazon to sponsor him and give him money.

[@bloodofjhezos]

You're doing such important work JT! Sharing this video everywhere!!!

[@findinglela]

Yes

[@PROPAROXITONO]

the biggest sociologist here in Brazil, Jessé Souza, has a lot of work about the middle class. his definition of middle class isn't about income, but education. because classes exist to define a group of people with some common interest and income doesn't provide that. so the low class, says Jessé Souza, are those who make living with their body. the middle class make living with their brain and the upper class makes money with money. and this classification remains even if someone making a living with their body makes more money than some people making a living with their brain. he says "the capital of the middle class is their education. that's why they support right wing ideas, even that they are not rich. because they are afraid that, if the poor can have access to their spaces, like university, they will lose their privilege, the privilege of being something by being educated." not with these words, but that is the idea.

[@mechanomics2649]

This feels more accurate than what's in the video.

[@fabiankaisen5977]

This seems indeed also more in line with how the term is perceived in Europe, but using the term working class instead of low class… there is a difference in mindset, for instance whether one should go to university after school or rather start a proper job.

[@NothingXemnas]

Depends on what that really means and which university we may be talking about. As someone who would fit that middle class definition and studying in a public university, my parents invested in private education before graduation school and even today, I see public universities and schools as the gateways for "the uneducated" to find education, and I (as many if not all of my classmates) would agree there should incentives and investments to "assist the poor", somehow. We are just a huge ball of mess, considering how badly ruled Brazil has been... for almost a century now. I even met "middle class people from lower class houses" (university students coming from a rural/farmer family).

[@PROPAROXITONO]

@@NothingXemnas me too, middle class, public university and want to see more poor people in public universities. but we are the exception here in Brazil, aren't we? Aposto que você também conhece uma porrada de gente da nossa classe média que fala de racismo reverso e essas bobagens todas. infelizmente ainda somos exceção. talvez um dia viremos a regra.

[@NothingXemnas]

@@PROPAROXITONO Olhe, nunca vi gente na minha sala falando de racismo reverso. Mas também estudo em Farmácia, que é uma faculdade de tendência liberal/esquerda, então talvez este seja o meu viés. E sim, espero que as coisas mudem.

[@karenchristinewise7833]

I am working class. The so-called middle class was originally envisioned as professionals such as doctors. I always thought it hilarious that USA citizens are obsessed by class distinction because you are a democracy. In Ireland, my brother is middle class because of education. I am working class because I chose another path. He and his wife own a house, myself and my husband own our house, we both have cars and take holidays abroad, have private pensions and a comparable standard of living. My husband is descended of nobility in many countries over many centuries. He is middle class because of his heritage. In Ireland, the social structure means that we have state security payments for every legal resident. Working class means being able to pay your bills and have some fun. I pay my bills, no mortgage, own the car, paid off my credit card, eat out, buy clothes and go on holidays. I do charitable work and give money to good causes.

[@ivyrainbitch]

Get off this American app

[@ExtraThiccc]

Typical privileged European

[@ToLovelyJesus]

@@TheRatsintheWalls KZbin is American.

[@olympia5758]

Calling the US a democracy is insulting to actual democracies. It's a constitutional republic, and a terrible one at that.

[@uli11]

The existence of the “middle class” is evidence of what’s actually fucked up. If a middle class exists, that must mean that a lower class must exist. That means people who are lesser than are coded into the American dream. A caste system. To desire a “strong middle class”, means that incidentally, a “strong lower class” must exist… meaning that social mobility must be fixed and a lower class (caste) needs to be just as strong, else the middle class will just become the lower class and it will dissolve. A “middle class” cannot exist without a necessary percentage of people being in poverty~ regardless of how hard they work. The American Dream is a caste system codified into the mythology of this country.

[@geobot9k]

Even more disgusting, when capitalists learned about marx some of them tried to respond with mudsill theory that said we must always have a lower class laboring like slaves. It’s always been class war. Very glad to see a lot of us are getting on the same page and learning theory and applying it in real world activities

[@Baraborn]

Yes. Those are the Blacks. My people. Welcome to the real world. Original Receipt: 1. The Plantation Owners 2. The Overseers (Police) 3. The Slaves (Me and Mine)

[@geobot9k]

@@brentharrington8134 that’s easy to say if you don’t grow up in the projects, join the army to escape (I used to have a very ugly mentality), get your mind and soul destroyed by seeing the shit we do to others, learning through experience Smedley Butler and Karl Marx were right, and get your body destroyed becoming a disabled vet guarding some billionaire asshole’s oil field in a country nobody even knows we’re in, and working alongside people in complete denial. I’m fortunate enough my disability came from a freak accident so I didn’t have to deal with violence when I got messed up but I’ve seen too much and know too many that got messed up or lost their lives for sociopathic billionaires during oef/oif. Lenin wrote a book called imperialism: the highest stage of capitalism. He’s mostly very accurate. The reason communists are so deamonized here is because billionaires want you to think capitalism is the best worst system. I’ve been to China and seen with my own eyes a better system is very possible and they’re still “just” a developing country. They have 13th tier cities that make our medium sized cities look pretty sad and they got high speed rail and convenient metros everywhere. What they dont tell us is that that they’re a dictatorship of the people! Officials get put to death for accepting bribes there unlike here where we call it campaign contributions. From the billionaires perspective that owns our media, being told what to do by the people is authoritarian and not being able to bribe politicians isn’t fair to them. China’s state owned enterprises that build their breathtaking infrastructure is controlled by the workers themselves. But yeah you are right: dont have a kid, dont need a hospital at any point, dont need to take out loans for college, dont ruin yourself by joining the military, keep your head down, dont run into a megalomaniacal cop with an itchy trigger finger (thats how I saw my first murder at 6 years old growing up in the projects, dude was too drunk to realize asshole was scared of the 40 in his hand), dont have all your money absorbed by a car, dont get a shitty roommate that stiffs you on their part of the rent, don’t fall into addictions, and yeah you could have a semi-comfortable/semi-torturous life as a wage slave serving a clueless capitalist. And for the love of god please stop thanking us for our service, we’re the evil empire! I’m inwardly proud I’m the kind of person that would volunteer to serve but ashamed of who we actually serve and unless you control billions of dollars it aint you. Sorry if I’m being intensely weird, haven’t been the same since tbi’s and can’t tell anymore how I come off to others it’s like a social disability on top of everything else. If you aren’t outwardly perfect you get shunned here. It’s so delusional, we’re people not unfeeling machines.

[@Borrowed_Rowboat]

Astute observation.

[@jessetorres8738]

I once saw this image that said that if someone lived for 80 years & earned an average of $5,000.00 every day of their life, they still wouldn't be a billionaire, but rather have about $150,000,000.00. At the bottom of the image was a line that said that no one works to become a billionaire. So yeah, we should be taxing multi-millionaire & billionaire individuals & corporations in this country more then we currently are! And if you want to argue that taxes shouldn't be raised on the wealthy and corporations, how can you defend them when they send their U.S. dollars to other countries so they can't be taxed & help fund domestic programs to help poor people here in the U.S.?

[@artypyrec4186]

We really need to tax them, the issue is how? They don't work and when they do we tax a few thousand dollars. Employer tax, labor tax, food tax, gas tax the US tax pretty much every thing the middle class consider would spend money on but when they did this to billionaires, they lobbied and sued to cripple the IRS.

[@fuglong]

Lol i'll personally rip wealth from their cold dead hands. Most people here agree with you, try and go tell a bunch of neo-libs this though 😵‍💫😂

[@blacklyfe5543]

That's being a billionaire you're contradicting yourself

[@artypyrec4186]

@@Keepskatin yeah but the stocks are taxed if removed or moved around too much, they just use that they have money in stock as collateral for loans from banks which they eventually pay off. If you set yourself as a active stock trader, you get penalties for not trading a certain amount in a day or if you remove too much all at once you get taxed more. That was why Elon a few months back made a big deal about getting the most amount of money as he could from his stocks without too much being taxed and before the deadline when the government could tax it regardless.

[@guy-sl3kr]

We should do much more than tax them 😏

[@grunkles]

Don't comment a lot, but thought this was really helpful. I already understood the basic distinction between working and owner class, but the points you said like middle and lower class differ only in their current circumstance, and about how the money is made rather than the amount, were things I never considered that I think will be good for my understanding of the world. I watch nearly every video. Some, I feel can be a bit more on the obvious side, but this one made me think in a way I haven't before. Hope to see more stuff like it :)

[@autohmae]

Their current circumstances AND also how chance & luck might have lead you into those circumstances. This means anyone in the middle class with a bit of bad luck could have been in the lower class.

[@wolf1066]

I fully agree with this division - I've always called myself "working class" on account of the fact that working is how I make money to survive. I don't have investment dividends or properties giving me sums of money to cover my daily/weekly/monthly/quarterly/yearly expenses, so I can't call myself anything but "working class".

[@Bookhermit]

There IS a way to define the "middle" that gets around most of these problems: Make it the amount of hours of work needed to maintain your standard of living. When that average # goes up, you are "harming the middle class", while when it goes down, you are helping the middle class.

[@ChillStreamsLive]

There is no such thing as a "middle class" or even "a lower class" or "upper class." These mythologies about the socioeconomic divide in America have permeatted even academics! There's the Working Class. Then there's the Capitalist Class. End of story. Exactly as this video lays out.

[@timcombs2730]

It’s a rather shallow oversimplification typical of 1st world brats attracted to Marx. But you will never want to explain the nuances and why multimillionaire plastic surgeon (he’s actually doing work and not just collecting capital) is just as working class is an 80 K your plumber. Marxism appeals to the most shallow and sheltered people in history. Always ivory tower intellectuals who’s affinity for Marxism lets millions more starve than capitalism slaughters. You still get a look like the good guy with a high body count cause technically you didn’t murder anybody

[@andyisdead]

How do you categorize people who both work and own a business? Workapitalist Class?

[@rockomcdagger6364]

@@andyisdead Petite bourgeoisie

[@americancommunist6076]

@@andyisdead we literally explained this over 100 years ago

[@thumpted8417]

@@DwAboutItManFr a capitalist is someone who owns the means of production. someone who defends the idea of capitalism, but doesn't own capital, is called a bootlicker. you're not a capitalist, you're lumpenproletariat. at this point, when you do not own the means of production, there is nothing for you to gain out of capitalism. there was feudalism, and it had it's time. now there's capitalism, and it's time is long past. it outlived it's usefulness over a hundred years ago.

[@TheSpecialJ11]

Ever since I got a serious education on how our society works, I've separated middle class as two parts of working class based on whether a worker has their head above water because they're swimming super hard or because they have a lifejacket. If "upper" class is based on ownership where you make money off of other people based on what you own, lower class is when people make money off what you don't own like owning your own car, house, etc. while middle class people own things that save them money without making them money. The whole "percentage of the population" thing is stupid because if that were true we'd never talk about the expansion of the middle class in historical periods. A caveat with my definition is if you have major lifestyle inflation and are overpaying for housing, transportation, etc. and are using debt to do so, you're not now lower class. Someone who gets a 4,000 square foot house on a 30 year mortgage could have easily gotten 2,000 square feet for their family of five with far less debt and been middle class by my definition. This is of course a sliding scale. If you rent out an extra room that doesn't make you upper class. Middle class people are working class people who aren't immediately sunk upon losing their jobs because their primary expenses are food, energy, healthcare, etc. and not rent, a car loan, and student loans. Of course this is really just a measure of how well the working class is doing and not an actual divide. I agree the real divide is between those who see a rise in capital gains tax as a pay cut and those who see it as either a savings cut or irrelevant.

[@Gizziiusa]

geez. learn to use paragraphs.

[@gcolombelli]

Bingo, trying to fit people into clearly divided boxes based on a simple, easily measurable, but potentially deceiving criteria / data, will result in all kinds of misconceptions and just muddies the waters when discussing socioeconomic issues. Also, the economy is made of many cycles of people doing things for other people using money as an medium of exchange of value, trying to fit a graph with many cycles into a hierarchical one does make an accurate model of reality.

[@Cowtymsmiesznego]

I pay no capital gains tax and way too much income tax (at least it feels like it). Still, even though I think both are kinda bullshit and provide wrong incentives, income tax makes more conceptual sense to me than CGT (although that could be just that I'm used to it). However, income tax being 2x the CGT rate is pretty ridiculous.

[@vanzc7920]

Two college degrees later and I have to choose between medicine and food. I came from a "middle class" home and became poor.

[@mystercraig]

real

[@StudioHannah]

Thank you for this. I have been struggling with growing up "middle class" and realizing that my own situation puts me in the "lower class" as an adult, but recognizing that it's all "working class" has helped me a bit. This is a much more sensible definition.

[@paulguignard3553]

"The logic of the rebel is to strive for clear language so as not to thicken the universal lie" (Albert CAMUS, "L'homme révolté", 1944) ;)

[@1mol831]

Instead of calling workers, the "working class", lets call working class, wage slaves instead. White & blue collar at the same time possible?

[@joeanthony7759]

You nailed it. I've been trying to explain this to people for years.

[@shazamichan7909]

"Temporarily embarrassed millionaires" I as a small business owner feel SO called out!

[@chodeshadar18]

I define class by whether or not you have to take responsibility for your actions. When you're rich you're above the law. When you're poor, you're beneath the law.

[@emhoj97]

For me it's always been More money than you could spend in a lifetime = Upper class Have several yatchs and mansions = Lower Upper class Comfortable and can vacation frequently = Upper Middle Class No debt and a high income, not struggling = Middle Class Debt but an alright income, can vacation with careful saving = Lower Middle Class Live paycheck to paycheck and have to budget carefully = Lower Class Income barely covers necessities and frequently go hungry to afford bills = Poverty Homeless and struggling for food and shelter = Critical poverty No hope of recovery, starved and begging for pennies = Extreme poverty

[@ypsawbones3646]

Pretty good

[@megatron_overlord]

It’s interesting as I am 20 years old student, I immigrated to England alone to study on a good university and have a better job once I have qualifications but I struggle with money so much (as London for me is very expensive) I have to regularly skip meals, eat just once per day etc. because I count every single pound to keep a roof above my head. So I’m in the poverty class according to your definition although when people see me on the street no one of them would classify me as poverty. It’s very complex topic

[@d00der41]

Sure would be nice if people looked at it this way. Might give people impetus to vote for progressive inheritance taxes to fund a universal basic income, or just completely revolt and do very bad things the upper class as described, buck up and suffer the consequences, or watch more and more power and wealth concentrate into fewer and fewer hands - live under dynasties again. Humans are fucking shameful. No actual pride in ourselves. Just want to strive for a boat, some beer, and a few Disneyland tickets. No will to sacrifice anything for the planet and for the future, no matter how much worse it's getting every fucking decade - and how much it is becoming impossible to resist it as times goes by.

[@johnwayne8162]

@@megatron_overlord what is so complex about it…you’re broke congrats

[@megatron_overlord]

@@johnwayne8162 “So I’m in the poverty class according to your definition although when people see me on the street no one of them would classify me as poverty.” - If I would have to repeat myself for you. That I’m walking around with expensive phone, laptop etc. study on expensive university but I’m technically in poverty class which creates a funny contrast. Tho anyway to be specific I didn’t say my case is complex but the whole topic we discussed/was discussed in the video. Critical reading doesn’t hurt that much, you should try it sometime

[@PB-ie8cj]

Man this video was great. I've always thought it to be curious how as humans, our "social class" system keeps going in a circle but with different names. At the end of the day, there's still nobility and commoner under some sort of modern feudalism. And the nobility will always keep trying to stay on top making the commoner believe it is for his own good

[@newscumskate9631]

That's not true. Before class was established, we didn't have it, and when it was established, it morphed throughout time and there were periods with 4-5 different classes existing. Over time we have shed many of the top layers and have just 2 left, with some monarchies gripping on that don't really count. This tells us one very important thing - class does change and will continue to change and it is possible that eventually class will dissolve given enough time.

[@roobertmaxity]

​@@newscumskate9631 do you really think class can dissolve further? to me it feels like having 2 classes is the lowest possible amount

[@newscumskate9631]

@@roobertmaxity That's because you've not really properly defined class and you haven't applied it to history, properly. When there were multiple classes, people never thought things would change. That's you now. Not just you, multiple people. It's hard to see history as a whole if you're only focusing on your own experiences now.

[@MichelleB022]

@@newscumskate9631 what were the different classes? Where can I read about that ?

[@henrikbienstein]

@@MichelleB022 you could read marx he already said this in the late 18 hundredth.

[@joseph-socialist.bsky.social]

There is no such thing as a "Middle" class there is only 2 classes The Capitalist and the workers: aka The Bourgeoise and the Proletariat.

[@HeidiThompson7]

But of course you can't allow the proletariat to identify with one another and work together. 🙄 I always thought that the idea of middle class was meant to make people living slightly over paycheck to paycheck feel more secure so they spend more. Ultimately, they're not more secure if they can't afford a $500 surprise expense.

[@亲爱的爸爸]

petty bourgeoisie still

[@arthurkineard7356]

If you think this is the case in modern US with our standard of living you are being willfully ignorant. Though that is what I got from him.

[@AirmanKolberg]

I always thought “Middle Class” were like people who owned trade ships. “Lower class” works a job, “Middle Class” makes money off of ownership of property and assets, and “Upper Class” distributes these assets (ie oligarchs, royalty, etc.).

[@ahogg5960]

I've been using this framing device when speaking to friends and colleagues about wealth inequality. There really are only two classes and it really helps driving home my points about politics and wealth inequality when you frame it as "working class" and "capitalist class"

[@timcombs2730]

So you’ve given them a shallow false dichotomy? Under the pretenses a multimillionaire plastic surgeon ( who’s doing work not just collecting capital) is preposterously working class as an 80 K a year plumber?! Do you know how shallow that sounds?!

[@corpo9310]

@@timcombs2730 Yes, they are part of different social classes but still part of the working class. Just because one is valued more in meritocracy because of being less dispensible (upper Social class) doesn't mean they are rentiers that can live of the work of others (upper Economic class)

[@timcombs2730]

@@corpo9310 no it’s just shallow classification into a false dichotomy that lazy rich kid Marx didn’t think through all the way.

[@FranciscoJG]

@@timcombs2730 using cherry-picking (borderline scarecrow) to identify false dichotomy, great.

[@tylerrosenthalcod]

You can be a part of both

[@TheRewiredSoul]

Great vid, man. Something I regularly discuss with guests on my podcast is how nobody thinks they're an elite. Even Elon Musk, the literal richest man in the world, doesn't think he's an elite. A lot of these class definitions have been so obscured to confuse people and get the lower classes fighting against each other, it's maddening.

[@Gbralta]

Elon thinks he’s elite. If you don’t think so, you’re delusional. He cobbled together $44B to buy a problem. He think he can fix anything because he thinks he’s the greatest thing ever.

[@laneythelame]

Ive heard JBP tell a story about talking to a journalist in a Nordic country and talking about elitism. When he told her that she is actually in the "1%" when it comes to job earnings globally, she wasnt willing to believe it at all. She couldnt see her own priveleges because she was too busy thinking she was a victim in some way

[@Goldenhawk583]

@@laneythelame Sounds iffy to me. Yes, journalists in Norway make ok money, bit nothing near the 1% scale. They can not afford buying a house without taking a loan.. they do not own multiple companues.. they make less than 1 mill per year.. So how they could be in the 1% beats me. That is Norway, and I am pretty sure the rest of scandinavia is quite similar. If you count every miliionaire as one of the elite.. then you have totally missed what "the elite" actually is. Think billionaires.. think Rockefellers, Blackrock and Vanguard.. No journalist is part of that group.

[@TumblinWeeds]

Tbf tho, globally almost all of us are top 1%. My family comes from a developing country and you’d feel sick seeing what they see as middle class. When they saw fast food workers in the States throwing out burger buns at the end of the day like it was nothing, they knew that all of America were elites. The “middle class” in their country would’ve fought tooth and nail for those day old burger buns. This is a land where no one can go hungry. And that can’t be said for 99% of humanity.

[@elomemes8065]

How do you know that he doesn't think that? Because he said so in an interview? Oh sweet summer child ...

[@EmmaDilemma039]

Your definition of class makes so much sense especially on a personal level. My parents have to work for a living, but they make enough money to be landlords and make investments in the stock market. These are "middle class" people that politicians so desperately want to gain favor with. They share some material interests with the capitalist class, so they will never fight against them. They are the moderates and centrists, aka liberals, who care more about their "modest stability" that they would sooner fight against the working class than stand with them.

[@timcombs2730]

It makes so much sense because it’s really shallow and simplistic. He he’s presented you with the false dichotomy

[@zachroyce6151]

@@timcombs2730 This entire comment section is terrifying.

[@timcombs2730]

@@zachroyce6151 Marxism is just as preposterous I don’t believe in talking snakes and women coming from man’s ribs

[@crusherven]

@@zachroyce6151 Yeah... this is just straight Marxism, he just didn't use the words "proletariat" and "bourgeoisie" or "class struggle." But all the concepts of one of the most destructive ideas of the 20th century are there.

[@zachroyce6151]

@@crusherven Yes. The thing that is the most distressing to me is either he decorated it so neatly that the vast majority of the people commenting here didn't see the monster beneath the surface or they did and have embraced the ideology. I'm not sure which is worse. He is entitled to his own opinion, and the first part of the video is an interesting idea, but as noted already the false dichotomy he presents is absurd. And the call to class warfare is a request for collective suicide. (See what I did there.. "Collective" suicide... Get it? Get it?😉)

[@exosproudmamabear558]

Let me tell you what a middle class is. My family was middle class in my high school and uni times until economic crisis hit Turkey. Dolar was 1.5 tl at those times .We went to Germany for a visit for our grandparents when I was 16. We went to museums, we went to every tourist atraction ever ate ouside since money wasnt really much of problem. Stayed there 3 weeks then we returned and went to our twice a year vacation,yes you heard me right we went to vacations in either a relative's summer house or mostly five stars hotels for one week sometimes more than one week. Our city has thermal water so when we did not have holidays we would go thermal hotels for a daily swim and get massages( For one hour of bliss) regularly. When I broke my laptop we could gather enough money to buy a better one in one week. I had several health issues but going to doctor wasnt difficult or expensive. We had our family doctor which was free and easy to acces with 10 minutes of walk distance but if we wanted to we could go to private hospitals since it wasnt expensive either. We would regularly go out for a breakfast or meat that was fairly expensive at that time.(Impossible to do this now) In univercity I have never had problem with eating outside or a take-out. We would open the natural gas a lot since our house had bad thermal insulation. My brother who had both adhd and dyslexic needed both private school and private tutors but we could pay it. I could easily buy things from internet without thinking about the money that much. My father and my mother both had cars and all family members had their own laptop and smart phones. My mother is a teacher in a public school and my father is one of the owners of a private dorm company(It isnt really a big thing since our city is small so we are considered a small company) Now with the economic crisis and hyperinflation I cant do most of the things.We cant get taeouts we cant eat outside. We cant buy laptops smartphones easily. We can't send my brother to private school.We cant go vacations nor our regularly visit to thermal pools. I need to ask my mother if I am gonna buy something from the internet. My mother has trouble to pay her credit cards. We are trying to save on natural gas. Just buying airplane tickets to Germany would criple our home economy let alone spending money there. Also due to earthquake victims put into public dorms so unis are closed 1 year so my father will only get 30% of the payment which makes practically him jobless for a year.

[@Mishkafofer]

Damn. I wondered what happens in the Turkish economy. Thank you for the detailed story of your family.

[@donavonprice6438]

Great video! I've been in many tax brackets depending on the year and how many hours I worked. One year I went 47 straight days without a day off. I made a lot of overtime money, but it was only temporary due to a staff storage. It did not change my social class at all! Keep up the good work!

[@rafadydkiemmacha7543]

"temporarily embarrassed millionaires" - love that 😂

[@reitmanigor8560]

about ten years ago I was searching for the definition of "the middle class", and the earliest thing I found was some 150+ years old, by some European philosopher and it said something like: "a class of people with the financial background of the upper class, but without their ambitions"

[@JimmyHuynhdesign]

thats deep

[@TimlerFX]

@@JimmyHuynhdesign "Poor people are just lazy" is one of the oldest tropes in the book. Let's not perpetuate such oppressive bullshit.

[@freshname]

@@TimlerFX that citation is the opposite of what you said. It more like "Middle class is the upper class. That's it. The upper class just decided that instead of just living luxuriously they want to control pretty much everybody else in the world"

[@mischievousjr.9299]

@@freshname Western Europeans

[@freshname]

@@mischievousjr.9299 Elaborate.

[@JCloyd-ys1fm]

Great essay. Plus, I really appreciate your sources in the description. More KZbin channels shoukd cite their sources.

[@shadowfluffylion8291]

Tbh, when you said that there is a rare chance to be part of the upper class, I was really relieved. I mean, we go to school to prepare for college, we go to college to prepare for work, we go to work to one day be the bosses. It is as if you are always being pushed to give everything you have to reach the highest rung, that your only goal as a human being is to succeed. But this has made me think that I should not always try so hard to reach those goals that are unattainable, and that I should take things easy, slowly and enjoy the process instead of dreaming of being on top. Thanks.

[@FranciscoJG]

That rare chance involves a lot of luck though, sadly.

[@shadowfluffylion8291]

@@FranciscoJG yeah, that too :(

[@andreagriffiths3512]

See it for what it is - a tool to control you - and use it to your benefit. Don’t let yourself be tied into an impossible dream. Take what you can and be happy with what you’ve got. Focus on what makes you happy and fulfils you.

[@andreagriffiths3512]

@ghost mall love this so much!

[@StealthGT40]

It’s who you know and how you stand out from others doing the same thing as everyone else get you nowhere. Cheers!

[@RsSooke]

It’s really weird how if you lie as a working class person you get in trouble/fired, but if you’re part of the rich ownership class or a politician lying well is not only expected but encouraged.

[@Wewereneveryoung]

"Do as I say not as I do"

[@andreylebedenko1260]

There are only two sides of the job contract -- a worker and a business owner. Not 3, not 4 and not 7. Hence, there are only 2 classes. Workers have no other choice, but to sign a contract. Capitalists make and keep it this way.

[@donalderic-zx5jn]

Sometimes you have to give your self that chance to make more money without working under someone's

[@scottjohno.7335]

You're absolutely right, to be a successful in life required not only hard work but awareness and sometime opportunity at the moment, investment remains the best way to start.

[@georgeesther-zq7js]

I agree with you. Investment is the key to sustaining your financial longevity. And not just any investment but an investment with guaranteed return.

[@bridget8162]

yeah investment is the key to sustaining your financial longevity but venturing into any legit investment or business without a proper guidance of an expert can lead to great loss too.

[@blinkenjoshua-xr9ub]

Exactly and many of us don't know where to invest our money so we invest it on wrong place and to the wrong people

[@jesdelighted7458]

​@@blinkenjoshua-xr9ubObviously talking about been successful, I know I am blessed if not I wouldn't have met someone who is as spectacular as Debra Barton

[@shadowdemonaer]

If you wanna know what middle class is, it's making one penny above the amount you're allowed to make to still receive government help. If you make a tiny bit too much, you can't even get any help anymore. Same for people on disability. One penny over. Our current system punishes you if you even try to get out of poverty. They're why someone might cause damage to their own home to argue the cost of property taxes down to survive. My boss once didn't understand 2hy someone told her she had to be demoted because she would be taken off food stamps. My boss thought she would be better off only earning fifty cents more and hour at Dollar General, working only 30 hours a week. I had to explain it. I'm not sure I reached her, but I hope she understands it soon. Even my then boss didn't understand her being salaried at $20 an hour and only being paid for 40 hours of work while working 60 or more hours a week put her basically making what I made. She didn't know how cheated even she was. This system is sick, a scam, and a joke.

[@leealexander3507]

To simplify the entire thing, politicians tell you to kick down as well as sideways

[@1May1312]

Feeding the algorithm because too many people still think “middle class” is a thing.

[@thanoscube8573]

this legend utterly defined capatalism like it was a history lesson on the middle age class system

[@carlhilber2275]

I understand the core of what you are saying and the importance of understanding the larger division between working class and ownership, but I do think that these more narrow class divisions are real in society and correlate to very different lived experiences and class struggles (Often also correlated with race). While a development consultant (like my mother) who makes 150k a year and a cleaner who makes 40k a year may both be working class under this model, the opportunities and cultural capital inherited by their children would be wildly different. It would be insulting to pretend like these class divides didn't exist, and could be used to argue lazy meritocratic talking points like 'the person and their children living on 40k had the same opportunities as someone born into a family of doctors or engineers' (I know that's not what the goal is here). I could be off the mark but from my understanding, lower class families are families struggling to make ends meet, working low paying jobs, and being concerned about the cost of rent and food. Middle class is marked by being able own a home and to pass on wealth for things like higher education and a downpayment on a home for your kids. Upper middle class Is a family capable of buying luxury cars, lavish holidays, in general living large (think the fresh prince of bel-air). Finally, Upper class means that you don't actually need to work for your money, you can live comfortably and continue to grow intergenerational wealth off the back of investments and ownership. I understand that the majority of people dont fit into squarley into these categories, But I do think that these distinctions are existent and do determine a lot about someones quality of life, personal struggles, opportunities and ability to obtain upwards socio-economic mobility

[@puggirl415]

Sometimes the poor working classes are called the precariat. (a mix of precarious and proletariat) They are working class but their situation can be precarious.

[@charoraimondogarcia]

I totally agree. I am lower class by income but my family can be considered middle class by cultural capital. I always of class as a multy faced thing, not only money related

[@icewink7100]

Classes never have, and never will be a monolith. If you think back to feudalism, the Pope and a random monk were both part of the same class, the Clergy, even though they had very different lives and amounts of power. Same thing under capitalism, people in the working class can have very different lives and experiences, and while those differences do matter, they still have the the same relations to the means of production, so they are still working class.

[@mushy470]

Your definition is what I was brought up and agree with. With this guy, you'd have someone who's at the lowest position in a company making 25k as the same class as someone in upper management earning 250k. They are both salaried workers in the same industry and even the same company, but they live very very different lives. They will also be effected by policies very differently, especially something like fiscal policy. These 2 people are just not the same. For example, my mu m worked in upper management and people would be very very upset if she called herself working class. His whole argument about you should like things your boss dislikes doesn't make any sense unless your boss is Bill gates. By his own definition, your boss is going to also be working class as they will be working as your boss for a salary. This just shows that how we actually already visualise lower/ middle/ upper class is more helpful that his definition.

[@black-nails]

the thing is, even if you earn 140k a year and than lose the ability to work (suddenly) you will not be in a good position. My family was pretty well off, but than health problems happened, family problems happened, crisis happened, discrimination in the workplace happened, children/ their problems could happen etc. Currently there is not much left, because there was no passive income coming in during the problematic time periods. And thankfully we didn't have to do into medical debt! Sure, if your whole family is doing very well and can catch you whenever something happens, it is a privilege, but for most working people there's a limit and all of this is shaky foundation. There is no uniform working class, there's always someone who is doing worse than us, because of the color of their skin/ identity/ legal status/ language skills, but that doesn't mean that everything is secured. I don't see the reason to separate the classes into smaller brackets, worker rights are to benefit the workers, no matter the worker's status.

[@DarioBertini]

This is really good, and at the end touches one of the point that capitalist-apologists use to argue: "if it helps your employer it helps you", "trickle down", etc.... Asking if something helps me or if it's going to give more power to my boss is a zero-sum question. It's a very valid one, and most often the game is actually zero-sum, but it's difficult to clearly see when that's not the case, and clearly dismantle fallacious arguments that argue that it's not zero-sum

[@autohmae]

What is more insulting about the whole situation: it's not even zero-sum, it's zero-sum on the short term. A lot of short-term decisions made by big companies actually hurt them in the long term. Then why do it ? Because having short-term 'losses' (which are actually investments for the future) look bad for their stock price.

[@leighcounry9956]

I concur, "capitalist-apologists" = dumbass, stupid, kool-aid drinking sheep. It is only these low intelligent, uneducated, ignorant morons who actually believe in that whole "trickle down" bullshit propaganda and vote into office the politicians that actually make the conditions of working Americans worse every year.

[@lampyrisnoctiluca9904]

I actually do believe in trickle down economics being the real thing. That is what you get when you move the production somewhere cheaper to make the rich richer. The wealth is then trickling down from more developed into less developed region. The people of more developed nation/society then become serfs to the elite. They produce very little of value and the only thing left to do is to serve the rich. Large service sector is not the sign of the rich economy, but of a trickling down economy. All its growth if there is one comes from R&D. That is why it is so hard to get a job without the college degree in richer places. The wealth is trickling down to the poorer parts of the world. People who could barely afford a proper nutrition are suddenly becoming not poor. They can educate their kids too. Their kids are then sometimes becoming wealthier than the kids from the trickling country. If not kids, then grandkids. Just look at the Asian tigers for example...

[@woollyprimate]

When I was a kid, my dad said we were upper lower class. I think back then there was a time when it was divided into like 9 classes…lower, middle, and upper divisions of lower middle and upper. But I love the simplification of the two classes (although it does have a whiff of communism). I think it’s more relevant today b/c in the 80’s, they tried to bust up the monopolies (AT&T). Now, they are rampant. And that’s not going to be good for society.

[@redwolfexr]

Yah, when the "middle class" was huge -- during the boomer years, it was usually divided into thirds. Lower class wasn't, really -- unless you WERE lower class. That model goes back to the "middle 3/5s" method that the host went through. Back then the "middle class" was that you owned a nice house and usually lived in the burbs. Back then we didn't HAVE debt. If you owned your house then you could go a long time without a job. (only real cost was taxes) Debt was introduced as incomes shrank in relation to costs (medical, college, housing, ect) -- so now people live off their income check-to-check and their "emergency fund" is credit. Its REALLY hard to pay down the credit you used later. What has truly hollowed out the old-style middle class are home prices. You can't pay off a house in a reasonable timeframe anymore - and if you are paying off a 30 year mortgage you can't afford NOT to work. So you are a wage-slave to your house. (which USED to be the source of your freedom from wage slavery) It wasn't uncommon to take a 10 year mortgage and pay it off early back in the 60s and early 70s.

[@thepreppyrascal7164]

The whole class construct comes from marxism and is the only relevant division of society's sturcture. There is only a oppressing and an oppressed class. Everything else is divide and conquer.

[@wolfbones666]

We're lower class, but we're Upper Lower class.

[@pramitpratimdas8198]

@@redwolfexr or you know you could be working class and still be well off. Maybe your family owned stuff and you benefited from getting a well paid job. You'd be working class cuz you'd be selling labor. The issue is this isn't sustainable in the long run. Less and less people will own stuff as monopolies get bigger and more and more are absorbed into the working class

[@redwolfexr]

@@pramitpratimdas8198 We aren't really talking about "working-class" because that includes a lot of "working wealthy" and managers and executives. Everyone in the middle class and below has to work, pretty much. Its absolutely not sustainable, I agree with you. The main issue is that debt has replaced savings and the 30 year mortgage has replaced the 10 year mortgage. Its pretty common to get a 7 year car loan now too. People used to pay CASH for cars after a bit of saving up.

[@benedictharrison2819]

John Steinbeck famously said of his fellow countrymen that Americans always act like they're 'temporarily embarrassed millionaires'. What he meant by that is that they feel no loyalty to their class, often working class, because they all think they'll be rich someday and if not, then their kids will be (they vote like that as well, often voting against their own current interests). here in the UK and the rest of Europe most people tend to be more proud of their class and honest