Seiko's Biggest Problem? + Return of the 62MAS (SJE093)

[@ID-Guy]

What are your thoughts on the SJE093? Especially when we look back at the SLA017 & SLA037. Does it feel like Seiko is not hitting the mark? Also, your thoughts on Prospex models and their timekeeping in general. What have your experiences been? 🥃

[@PanSearedRibeye68]

Seiko doesn’t want there to be too much accuracy. They know that the more you set the time and fidget with your watch, the more bonding there is between timepiece and owner. It’s a strong bond. I reset my Seikos daily and love it! 8:55

[@MrZanzibar123]

100%. I can’t understand who would buy this over the SLA models with the 8L35, with its modified GS movement. But even those have an overly large range of acceptable deviation. Still, the truth is that Seiko tends to underpromise and overperform, and my two SLAs are running plus .5 and plus 3. But the 6Rs are similar, if not as consistent (mine is plus 3.5). Even GS has accuracy issues with their high beat movement, from what folks on the forums say. I agree that they should regulate these high end pieces, but without charging even more! They’d be as popular as Tudor, etc.

[@vktravellog1242]

Agree with you 100%! I am starting to wonder if Seiko think we are stupid?

[@MrMoxes]

I think that the 6L movement will remain to be seen. I do agree that the ask for $$$ is outlandish, considering you can get an SLA 2nd hand for perhaps less. It’ll be curious to see how it shakes out.

[@Mike.thiswatchthatwatch]

Accuracy in a watch? What a novel concept 😂😂😂😂

[@AbdulRWatches]

Seiko is doubling down on heritage and name, and skimming on movement, QC and Specs. Thanks for the video mate.

[@ID-Guy]

It’s a real pity man… when I think of how the SLA037 used a Hi-Beat (how other models in this category have done the same) it’s just bizarre 🙄 Hope you’re well m’boy! 🥃

[@HonoluluBlue81]

It’s the QC issues at Seiko that keep me from buying anything from them over $300. If they don’t care enough to ensure a bezel insert is aligned that tells me all I need to know about the rest of the watch.

[@camarocarl7130]

Most of the cheaper models are from the factory in china.

[@nedflanders3769]

Facts!

[@Ae073001]

I have purchased recently the new SPB383, I have the SPB297 Special Edition Blue dial, and the SSK005 GMT, all are over $300, and none have any QC or alignment concerns. Recently they have been really dialing in on those issues. One may need to go to an AD to review, but that is an issue I believe is being addressed.

[@tilio9380]

​@@camarocarl7130It's not like the QC on their >$1000 MIJ models is any better. Seiko's bad QC and shitty 6R movements are what really make their mid-range models hard to swallow for me.

[@camarocarl7130]

@@tilio9380 6R is a pos rather have a 4R.

[@ajgross67]

Am I the only one who really doesn’t get the hype around the 62MAS? I get that it was Seiko’s first, but Seiko has so many iconic dive watches that if you just saw an empty watch case you would instantly know what it is, and that it is a Seiko. The Willard, Tuna, Marinemaster, SKX are all very good looking and unique to Seiko. The 62MAS just looks like any other skin diver from the time

[@PocketUau]

I agree, the only really nice part of the watch is the handset while everything else has been seen before and seen again.

[@alexspink4325]

The fact that those watches are distinctive also makes them divisive. Not everyone wants an off the wall case shape or size a 4 o’clock crown. Seiko are tapping into more mass appeal with the skin diver reissues and it’s working for them. Plus it’s still classic Seiko. Now there really is a Seiko for everyone

[@AcmeRocket]

I am quite certain that there is no watch brand, design or style, where there are people that do, and don't get it.

[@MrMoxes]

Don’t feel bad about it. It was not until I learned about others, besides my SKX173, that their were other good 1sts. Brands will always have great firsts. I really like the “Willard”, most because of the shape but I also like the “Arnie” reissue, because it’s solar. Then there’s the “Emperor Tuna” (Rose colored Marine Master 1000m). It’s just preference.

[@AcmeRocket]

​@@TheNeilo-Audiosoundso in your opinion, what watch isn't overpriced?

[@dannyg6592]

I agree 100% - a gorgeous, proper sized 62 MAS with inexcusable lack of accuracy for the $3500 price. I wanted a 38mm 62MAS for my collection, but I'm not spending that kind of money for a watch with that movement. Instead, I purchased a Cadisen 62MAS with an NH35 movement for only $56 on a recent Ali Express sale. It has received a surprising amount of compliments from other collectors. Cheers!

[@arnebucher7317]

I was so hyped when I saw the picture and assumed it would be a non-limited issue in the SPB line with a shitty movement and a price of around 1k... Well, I learned not to get my hopes up with Seiko.

[@ID-Guy]

I feel you… as far as I’m aware this new caliber could be seen as a modified 6R35 found in those SPB’s. It’s quite mind-blowing 😆 Don’t we all wish that this model was 1k… alas 🥃

[@mrdisco99]

@@ID-Guy No the 6L caliber is actually a clone of the Soprod A10 (which supposedly Seiko designed), a 4 Hz drop in substitute for an ETA 2892. Totally distinct from and better than a 6R, but we should still expect more in a $3500 watch.

[@pk1342]

​@@ID-Guyhow can you be a watch KZbinr and not know the difference between 6L and 6R. I can only imagine you're deliberately stating such a stupid mistake to get more hits. How sad

[@dibtojyoti10]

@@ID-Guy seems like you're ill informed like most of the public here.

[@cedarcanoe]

Let’s not forget only few of the targeted audience by Seiko really understand (and care about) the difference between 6L35 and 8L35 99.5% all the customers of wristwatches either decide based on the dial design & color, or on recognition by others (status symbol). I own 7 Seiko’s, all are from the time Seiko was a leading player in horology (60s & 70s). The current offering by Seiko is below its former quality standards. Spot-on video! 👍

[@highwind85]

But if Seiko is not targeting the enthusiast, then they may be making a huge mistake. Customers who look for brand recognition would not pay $3,500 on Seiko.

[@kurokamei]

The difference is just a power reserve, right? 6L gives about 41ish, 8L 50ish.

[@lorenzomasia9024]

I agree fully. The 8L35 is a superior level.

[@brennariley228]

A real paradox for a well known watchmaker in today's world. Thank you for sharing your insights!

[@vnay4915]

The design of 62MAS is very unique and clean. I adore the distortion of the hour markers at the edge of crystal. Only if Seiko provided it with an 8L series movement and a display case back, this would be competing with black bay and seamaster 300m.

[@ID-Guy]

Design wise, I don't think there's anything to critique actually. It's so charming, full of character, simple, effective etc. - it's such a pity that they chose an odd movement for this excellent machine 🥃

[@TheGabrielino98]

I don't think a dive watch needs a case back. I only have one watch with a display case back. I don't ever look at the movement.

[@NexDim.]

I understand your argument for sure. While I don’t shop in the high end Seiko segment, my daily is a Willard and for what I spent I could argue accuracy should be better. To be honest, I just don’t care that much. I wear this thing doing everything and it hasn’t missed a beat. I love the history of durability and ease of servicing. Win some lose some.

[@TheGabrielino98]

True. Some people over exaggerate about the movement issue. I own several Seikos and haven't had issues with them. I figure, if I want a super accurate watch, I can buy a quartz watch

[@Nightfury0695]

The 6L movement has nothing in common with the 6R. This is entirely a different movement family being used in entry level Credor for years and was developed with Soproad A10 as slim movement with same dimensions as ETA2892. The new 6L37 is modified 6L35 with more durable materials and higher shock resistance to fit the dive watch standards. If anything this movement is more comparable to the 8L series but just slimmer with lower power reserve. 45 hour power reserve is still good compared to many brands still using 38 hours Sellita in the similar price range. My SJE Kind Seiko with 6L35 runs +1 seconds and barely deviates more than 3 seconds after a week of use and its been my daily along with my Pelagos which is running at +4 seconds and at the end of a week will be off by about 15-20 seconds. Seiko has been never good at properly naming and it shows with the whole confusion between the 6R and 6L movement.

[@AcmeRocket]

Stop making sense and providing facts. The Seiko haters will object.

[@stevens1041]

But, but, but, my 300 dollars Alibaba watch from China 🥲🥲

[@speedwolf5212]

I came to say the same thing. I feel like he’s confusing the 6L with the 6R. The 6L is a higher beating movement that has more in common with the ETA 2892 than the 6R.

[@bootneck4514]

The 6L movement is good, I’ve had a couple. It’s not £3500 good though and certainly not comparible with what Tudor are producing. When ADs struggle to sell, I’ll pick one up at 50% discount like I did with the SJE083 and 85.

[@AcmeRocket]

@@bootneck4514 of course you will

[@ClubmanGT1971]

I completely agree with everything you’ve said. I love my Seikos especially my vintage models. You’re spot on about the accuracy. It’s laughable about some of their modern movements. Different models with the same movement have huge variations. One can be within a second or two and the other can be 30-50sec out. The movement in this new 62MAS recreation is unacceptable for the price but the design is still utterly stunning. Even my SKX is more accurate than most of my newer Seikos. Always love your videos. Thanks again.

[@HHIto]

My mother always warned me against "marrying" for looks only! A lifetime includes the body, soul, heart & mind!❤🦄📈

[@mr_watchaddict3146]

Exactly this, my friend. As well as the fact that these watches are, I suspect, bought solely by enthusiasts; the very people whom will understand the movement they are buying, and why they are getting a poor deal. 😞

[@robalexander7348]

Totally agree, there time keeping accuracy is terrible, i purchased a Capt Willard $2,000 Au and a Turtle $1,400 Au from Seiko Sydney in January this year, the Capt Willard gains one minute per day and the Turtle gains 35 seconds per day and it is so annoying to have to adjust the correct time every day. They both come with a five year warranty, on making a enguiry to Seiko for adjustment they will have both these watches for approx one month, before their return. This is not good, as they are both expensive compared to other Seiko models. This is very poor for two new watches,and poor service time for adjustment 😲

[@Anirossa]

Feel like Seiko is like the delorean, funky, stylish and fun design on the outside, but with a garbadge drivetrain on the inside, and hyped beyond fairness, for nostalgia for a time period that has passed, as well for the idea it represents.

[@tilio9380]

That's actually quite a good analogy. Nothing epitomizes this more than the KS models going for $1700 MSRP while still housing the 6R movements.

[@HRM.H]

Thats only the case with MODERN seiko..

[@Anirossa]

@HRM.1 Yeah, referring to the Seiko we have now after they upped the prices and no longer make good value budget watches

[@garofalo1707]

If I could buy a delorean I would lol I guess that figures I actually like Seiko automatic watches.

[@bignz721]

I had a hankering for a 62MAS. I ended up getting an Islander ISL-154 Northport, for trying out. It has not left my wrist in 3 months. Hits ALL of the 62MAS marks, less than 1/2 the price of a SPB143, & superior specs in nearly every way. A perfect desk-diver.

[@ID-Guy]

And doesn't have a big "X" on the dial, massive bonus points 😉

[@quiterioalbertobaezbenitez5739]

Hello and thank you very much for your truly and honest review. Here in Spain we usually say: "To die due to success" ("morir de éxito). That, I think, is the best diagnosis of this uncomprensible phenomena with an authority in this industry like Seiko. Unfortunately. Saludos!

[@ID-Guy]

Brilliantly said, in english the closest we have is "to be a victim of your own success" - much prefer the simplicity of the Spanish expression 😉🥃

[@dacuzbuzz]

Agreed regarding accuracy of Seiko movements. They need (even slightly) better regulation so that the caliber’s strengths can shine. For over a thousand dollars, that’s a minimum requirement. For me I love the LX line with the hyper accurate GS Spring drive- it combines an updated Seiko diver heritage with an amazing engine.

[@HHIto]

Not slightly, better be SPOT-ON regulated, accurate or Tudor, Longines, Oris, Omega, maybe (Citizen-mechanical, they have Swiss movement partners)... your customers are telling you this, and keep the price premiums for certified accuracy < magic price point below $4,000 USD, or you'll see a 25% drop in your DIVER market share! The key is you already have reached (case specs - SJE 62MAS), but you are 25% behind in movement manufacturing! The SWISS will eat you by 2026!

[@martinharrison4245]

My sla043 gains about 4 mins a week with the 8l35, but its still my favourite watch. They should regulate them , for the price. I do love the design and build quality is second to none .

[@stevel4439]

I have an original 62mas 8001, SLA017 and now the SJE093. I love them all. My SJE093 thus far (10 days) has been +2 sec / day for all those worried about accuracy. The SJE093 although similar in measured size to the original appears smaller. Its definetly slimmer and lighter than the SLA017. The finish is on par with the SLA017 as is the accuracy. . The lume dot at 3pm is genius as it is not very noticable unless you're looking for it. Price point although high by standards several years ago in line with today's pricing. Smaller wrists SJE093 - larger wrist SLA017.

[@pushslice]

Staaahhp with all this praise ! you’re supposed to be hating on this watch, along with all the other Internet lemmings!!

[@stevenl7093]

@@pushsliceHa! I’ve actually used and love it! Sorry to all the naysayers but to each their own.

[@pushslice]

@@stevenl7093 ;-}

[@jhoag2577]

My Fathers 62mas fell in the lake in 1973 while hammering on a wooden dock. I bought the San Martin 62mas and a tropic strap from Mark at Islander to recreate the watch. I was dreaming Seiko would make a 62mas watch for the little guy and looks like they did but at a Boss price. Thank God for San Martin to do what Seiko can not.

[@ID-Guy]

It's true that these smaller homage brands are managing to match and even beat the current standards. We'd think that this would force the big names to pay more attention to the details. But Seiko remains Seiko 😉

[@epicv7dayz824]

Great points mate, love how you call it as you see it. I had a green Willard and what a beautiful watch it was. However, the 6R movement sucked. Tried to regulate it but it had horrible beat error, sporadic amplitude on the different planes, I simply gave up. I love seiko, they have some of the best watches going, but forget the automatic versions, I simply am enjoying their solar quartz based pieces.

[@tariqjoseph3562]

It’s 6l though, completely different and far higher end movement. Though still no 8l so this price is ridiculous, and it’s sold out so I guess not. I should rather say the buyers are ridiculous 😂

[@Polter6eist]

The movement is great, you can find it in King Seiko 140th anniversary watch. It is very slim, very tough and very precise. I own the said watch and it's a joy having it. Also, I own a marinemaster 200 with the 6R35 movement and it puts to shame any swis made Cosc certified watch. I wonder if Seiko deliberately declares outrageous numbers on the accuracy of their movements so they don't straight outsell all the swis industry... Maybe they have some sort of contract. I have 4 Seiko watches btw, all exceptional

[@TheGabrielino98]

I agree. I own both the King Seiko reissue and this 62MAS resissue. I love both watches and have not had any issue with either one. The people who are complaining are people who don't own these watches and probably can't afford them.

[@jiko1954]

It’s worth repeating (and there have been several other comments echoing this): the 6L movement in this latest 62mas reissue iteration is not an evolution of the 6R movement but is a high-end slim automatic movement from the 4L family, which is used in the Credor line of watches. The only marked disadvantage of the 6L vs the 8L is the power reserve. conversely, however, the 6L is slimmer than the 8L. Morever, the 6L is a relatively newer movement hence the jury’s still out on its performance vs the 8L; notwithstanding, real world reviews have been by and large good, save for anecdotal complaints (which the 8L is similarly not immune to as well). Hence, at the end of the day, Seiko evolved the SLA017 into a slimmer and smaller case with the SJE093, in keeping with the original 62mas, using a comparable movement (performance -wise save for the Power reserve) to the 8L. So at the end of the day, its a question between the power reserve vs. reduction in size. Otherwise, the further attributes of this reissue is basically the same of the SLA017.

[@Valera_Scotland]

Totally agree man.. the price and the fact that it's limited = no thank you. I'll keep that Explorer in mind, or a future smaller Omega diver

[@skzion2]

Very interesting discussion. I'd add only that Orient manages much better and consistent accuracy--at a much lower price on average.

[@harrisoncleberoliveira9049]

Meu Orient Triton diver com complicação reserva de marcha tem uma precisão excelente pelo custo benefício!!

[@regi9150]

I love the design of the Seikos, but the quality issues... So i bought several Citizen Promaster Diver 200m automatic over the last 25 years. They run all between - 5/+7 sec per day. Never had problems with the quality. And the price👍👍👌👌Greetings from Switzerland

[@dddddonk]

Thanks for the video. I think I'll stick with my San Martin SN007 GX 37mm on their excellent waffle strap. Ironic that small brands do Seikos back catalogue earlier and (much) cheaper than Seiko themselves. The San Martin is definitely more than the sum of its parts, its got real character, imo.

[@Amplitudeproblem]

I would have loved to give the SJE093 a home next to my GS-made SLA043. Opted not to, after consideration, for much the same reason you described. While I wish Seiko had made a different choice, it potentially makes sense if we consider the broader context of how Seiko manages limited editions. I might bet that in a couple years, a new variant with these same OG dimensions but with a GS movement and in Ever-Bright steel makes an appearance. By then, those who FOMO'd over the SJE093, and those who didn't care about the innards, and those who can't see spending $6K on an up-spec version will have already bought all the SJE093. That's the perfect time to release the real thing and they'll find another ~2,000 buyers no problem. I'm probably dumb enough to be one of them.

[@TheGabrielino98]

Honestly people exaggerate about the movement. I own the SJE093, and have not had any issues with it. It's very accurate. The finishing it beautiful. I get compliments all the time.

[@PeterKotsa]

The size is great and its about time they stayed closer to the original. As for the movement..meh, but then again, thats teh Seiko we know 😊 Excellent presentation brother, cheers 🥃

[@ID-Guy]

Hope you're well m'boy! And agreed on the size! 38mm's would make this machine even cooler in the metal. BUT I'm starting to think the SLA037 might be on the cards (may be the last Hi-Beat of this design that we'll see) 😉

[@PeterKotsa]

@@ID-Guy GREAT choice 🔥

[@shaverray4462]

Your critique is spot on. I’m not a Seiko aficionado myself, although I own a few of them, as do most collectors. Frankly, I’d far rather have one of their excellent quartz pieces, especially the long lived Solar or Kinetic ones, than overpay for one of their lesser mechanical movements.

[@Supercruze]

I collect, service, and restore vintage Seiko and I have serviced and restored several original 62MAS timepieces. These is something missing, I can't put my finger on it, that these modern reinterpretations of the vintage Seikos fail to achieve. You look at a vintage 62MAS and there is something captivating about it; whether it is the warmth in the aluminum bezel insert, mint green lume within the applied markers, or matte black dial. This is just not the case with these modern Seiko reinterpretations. What bothers me more is Seiko's insistence on making this new 62MAS LIMITED and then charge a price that is damn near Tudor diver territory. I just do not see it. You are 100% correct that Seiko has an issue with regulation of their new watches. Paying $3,500 for a timepiece ought to come with a COSC certification or tight regulation within +-5 sec per day. Just no excuse for it not to. I applaud Seiko's efforts here, but go the extra mile especially at this price point. I am still a fan of the SLA017 edition and like that version better than this new one. I wish Seiko had gone with the vintage green lume on this timepiece. It would really have added some character to this watch. As it is, it is just another vintage looking skin diver with ceramic bezel and while lume.

[@entropy1708]

62mas recreation with 38mm, perfect for me and willing to pay the price but the price with that engine… maybe close to deal-breaker

[@TheGabrielino98]

I own the SJE093. Trust me. You won't be dissapointed. It looks beautiful in person. It's been very accurate so far. There are only a few left in stock.

[@bushpig6837]

Well said. I'm an SLA017 owner and it's sat in a drawer while I watch and wait for something worthwhile to chop it in for. And mine runs at +1 sec/day but their later release makes me want to have nothing to do with Seiko.

[@stingosaka]

I’ve given up on Seiko nowadays. I used to have 8 pieces from each collection ie. Blumo, Willard… eventually realising that Seiko didn’t build ‘my’ watches with much care unlike many other enthusiast brands.

[@btmontres1423]

Appreciate the comments on Seiko movement accuracy; because were it not for the poor performance, IMHO they would be slaying the marketplace more than they are now. Brings me back to SLA037, 36K vph movement and yet despite all the movement goodness, its been pretty poor for overall timekeeping at its princely list of $6300 US. Sigh. So now I need to be a watchmaker or find a watchmaker (Seiko Service Center?) to regulate it properly. OK, enough with the rant because overall I think we still find SJE093 pretty great and sort of a retort to the recent Black Bay 34 case size and all....

[@mathewazzopard8100]

I own 4 Seiko all in all. Their accuracy was horrible, 3 have been regulated and keep excellent time. The fourth not yet, I just finished the 3rd round of fully winding it and wait to check time keeping. Their accuracy (Seiko in general) isn't because their movements are bad but because they don't regulate them. To regulate them means time and time means cost. Japanese will consider all parameters of cost and their moto is cut the cost to increase profit. Was between the sje093 and a Tudor bb 58. A friend recommended to watch this vid. I said before watching that I should go with the dd58, it's on bracelet (,always opt for bracelet and welcome the option for a strap) plus 2 straps. Was glad to see at the end of the vid "I'd take a Tudor and have better accuracy" thanks for that. At my age I don't really have the patience to buy a new watch, power it 3 times and run to regulate it.....

[@diego750]

Never particularly liked the looks of the original 62MAS, though I appreciate the history. As a child my first ever proper watch was a Lorus Sports quartz diver, black dial, gold lettering, applied indices, I of course treated it badly by climbing up trees and getting into scrapes, but it kept on going. Fast forward to adulthood, and that has been the dive watch I've wanted to recreate - and I finally did two years ago with the Grand Seiko SBGA031. Same gold text, applied indices, feel. 43.5mm but fits better on the wrist than my Sub, and because it calls back to those memories, I love it more. Nostalgia eh?

[@mfrankel8321]

Great review! It is hard to get stoked about a watch that is inaccurate regardless of the build quality or design. Seiko has a real problem here.

[@ID-Guy]

Some are saying they're putting a glorified NH35 inside the piece... it's just sad, man 🥃

[@mfrankel8321]

@@ID-Guy Very sad. NH35 is such a crappy movement. These microbrands think they are clever putting them into watches and trying to hype their value to watch enthusiasts. With regard to Seiko, the 6R35 for their mid-level watches is a decent movement and upgrade fro the NH35...but still the accuracy is all over the place.

[@Vox-Populi]

Great perspective. I stumbled across Citizen recently after purchasing many Seikos. All of my Citizen watches are within +/- 3 seconds per day.

[@chi1057]

You make some very valid points relating to the price of this watch, and apparent lack of regard Seiko has regarding accuracy, and seemingly disregard they have for their customer base. Then negate all that stating you would still want one. That is the problem, not Seiko's poor accuracy, constant cash ins, or massive price increases. The problem is people continuing to buy them whilst these issue's continue. So really the question needs to be what's wrong with Seiko buyers?

[@marcuslieberman3577]

Great video. All good points. It is a handsome watch. You said it; prices continue to rise, availability is an issue(Special Editions!). Collectors have to be careful on spending their money.

[@SolidCaseBack]

Excellent video and it's like you literally took all the thoughts in my little brain and articulated them to perfection. I love my SLA037 but it drives me nuts that it runs at -7spd. I had a SLA043 which ran at +1spd which was great. My SPB317 started out at +2spd. Then suddenly it shifted to +8spd. At last count it has started running at +25spd. WTAF?!?!? There are several Seiko designs I love but I now find myself fighting the temptation to buy because I know that the inaccuracy of their movements will end up disappointing me (almost) every time. And ultimately, I have to conclude that their refusal to regulate their movements is actually just offensive and disrespectful to their consumers. Most notably me!

[@jonatansterling397]

Absolutely agree with you Bro ....

[@Q1890]

Already got it on Pre-Order, has to be in the collection.

[@ID-Guy]

And I fully agree with this. Just like my CK2913, adding a 62MAS is just a must 🥃

[@rouge-gsd3061]

Seiko as a whole is getting more confusing as a brand. Not only do you now have sekio,king sekio, grand seiko, and not to forget credor; but now you have all of these faimilys overlapping with wildly diffent levels of care to the products. I want to love sekio but the lack of care for the prices there currently asking are just plain wrong.

[@HRM.H]

Credor isnt even sold in the west

[@josevasquez1781]

I have a full day with mine and I'm happy as can be, I owned the SLA017, 037, 039 and 143 and this new SJE093 is really good slim and compact best of all after a full day just one little second a day, hope it stay like that but things can change. I will put a tropic strap very soon.

[@Martinhauer]

You are so right. I had the watch reserved and now I could buy it. I would also buy them if there were not the movement. So not and so I have saved again 3,500 euros.

[@jpdavis6042]

SKX fan (have 2) to this date with it's defect's. I also a seek out original issue design. Damn at this ludicrous high price will pass on the 62 MAS. New sub here from LA.

[@darkoflight4938]

In my humble mind Seiko, as a brand, is all over the place. Cheap budget products, intruding well into Alba land. Expensive hi end one´s, stepping over to Grand Seiko territory. It sure confuses people when there is such a broad spectrum of products in the line up. The brand cannibalizes itself. A thing that has plagued Longines for some time. Why not just make the mid tier stuff and let the other spectrums of products to the other brands under the Seiko umbrella? What does Seiko want to be? And of course, don´t get me started on the QC problems and the endless "limited editions". I really love the Seikos of yesteryears, the brand has got some great history, but this "new" market strategy... I don´t understand it. That said, I congratulate myself of acquiring a vintage "Captain Willard" from -75 in great shape recently. Hello from Sweden!

[@WestCoastAce27]

Thanks for the Seiko retrospective. Yes, would never look twice at a > $1k USD Seiko. Love my Pepsi SKX and it’s quality is fine.

[@jorelkrypto7475]

I love the original 62mas and the SPB143 which doesn't need to be reissued. I regulated my SPB143 to -4/+6 spd in 5 positions and it's absolutely perfect now.

[@johnnyguitar6697]

My thoughts exactly. Love the design of this re-issue, but can't see why anyone would pick it over a BB58 or BB54 for the money.

[@warrenbarnes9653]

As a collector with a fair number of Seikos, I agree with your frustration regarding their lack of accuracy. Even at lower price levels, say from $700 to $2,000, the use of the 6R35 series does not offer accuracy competitive with comparably priced entry level Swiss watches or even cheap Miyota movements. I was pleasantly surprised to learn that Seiko had decided to use a 6L37 in your featured watch, rather than continuing to push upmarket with the 6R35. The 6L series does offer the POTENTIAL of being a bit less inaccurate. However, apparently, Seiko does not consider $3,500 to be truly upmarket, and they do not apparently believe that they compete with the Swiss in this sector of dive watches. It is important to understand that Seiko is the “Toyota” of watches, in their philosophy of engineering. They have always placed durability, reliability and a lack of required maintenance above actual performance. A Seiko will just keep on running, irrespective of what you do with it, usually. Unlike Toyota, Seiko has not had a high emphasis on quality control. And unlike Toyota, Seiko has had a high emphasis on esthetics, particularly with dials and hand sets. And most enthusiasts can do much of the maintenance and regulation of Seiko watches themselves. All of this used to be an acceptable value proposition to Seiko owners - until the large price increases in recent years. Now, the value proposition for Seiko watches costing $500 - $5,000 is questionable at best. I believe that for watch enthusiasts, the better value proposition with Seiko is firmly in the Grand Seiko sub brand, just as Toyota reserves for its Lexus brand. Also, remember that Seiko has proven that they can sell a lot of mid priced watches to people who know nothing about watches, but who are aware of their brand. So they don’t need to change their business model, and we should not expect that they will do so.

[@cle_roknn3742]

I have bought and sold a few Seiko watches over the years. I currently have a Seiko 5 GMT, Caribbean Turtle SRPD43 that I bought on a steep discount, and a Grand Seiko End of Autumn SBGA429. The Grand Seiko is a great watch, 2 seconds per month or less accuracy (it’s a Spring Drive so that’s normal), the Turtle is +5 a day, the GMT is all over the place and currently sits at my watchmakers getting regulated. They are all good watches, but as with every Seiko (not the Grand Seiko) I own(ed) MSRP was inflated to stupid levels. I’ll wait until it inevitably goes on sale somewhere or pops up on the used market. I can’t blame Seiko for trying to go up market, but they will have to increase their QC and movement specs before I’d consider their MSRP a “fair” price. If your after a cheap auto, I’d look to Orient, Seiko’s kissing cousin. I’ve had two: a Mako 2 and a Ray 2, both were well made and decently accurate, both hit that sweet spot in case dimensions on my wrist. I’ve regretted selling both, but at the time I wanted to go up market and that seemed prudent.

[@borassictime918]

For the SRPs Seiko has chosen to increase to, it is not unreasonable to expect improved accuracy. The same old, same old, really doesn’t cut it. Seiko movements are indeed highly variable and it’s not always easy to regulate in different positions, and heaven help you if it’s become magnetised because I’ve found it pretty much impossible to regulate after demagnetisation. Overall you get this nagging feeling of disappointment even at ‘entry level’ prices, let alone $3k.

[@BAF605]

I only buy Seikos these days if I can get a big discount and at sale times in UK 50% is gettable. I don't buy many Ali Express clomages but the Steeldive Willardalike for around £65 has amazing quality/price ratio. Orient don't have a big range easily available in UK but I have several of their divers including an M-force and a Star Diver that were bought for less than the RRP of a 5KX. They've taken big brother's crown as the value Japanese watch.

[@watchchimp3102]

Yes, this is a bit of a head scratcher. I have the SLA043 and you didn't even mention that or the newer still SLA065. But, the price of this new issue with a very optimistic price and not having an SLA designation is quite telling. 🤔 I think maybe it's a bit of a missed opportunity, because Seiko is basically watering the range down. They release these "limited Editions" they sell out and then they're left with a gaping hole of demand and no watches. So, they warm it over and release another slightly different interation. I guess the SPB range of 62MAS models is inteded to fill demand in a general sense, but it's a bit disconcerting if you splashed out for an SLA 017 only to sit back and watch additional Limited Editions trot out one after the other. This one seems to follow the downsizing and thinning trend and I don't think I can get on board. Especially with a non-SLA designation. 😮

[@watchdogpodcast239]

I would argue that SLA043 was the pinnacle of watering the line down. It also did not sell very well and you can get them at massive discount. Not hating on it at all. I had one and thought it was beautiful. Still didn't really need to exist. Outside of ever brilliant steel, it wasn't doing anything the other models were already doing. To me, this SJE093 works because it is true to the original dimensions. Won't wear as tall and long as the SLA models. The 6L is fine. It has the same deviations as the 8L. I love it!

[@masqueman01]

Nailed it. This has bothered me for years!

[@Beanna_]

Seiko made a fatal mistake by rebranding this slim movement previously used in entry-level Credor watches "6L" instead of adding it to the 7L or 8L series. It creates confusion with its much cheaper 6R sibling found in the $1000 Prospex line and instantly turns down customers. To me, this $3500 is an instant pass. Just like the $3400 44KS reissue before. I simply can not understand how Seiko expects to compete with Tudor in that price bracket by offering unregulated movements with only a 45 hours power reserve. For this kind of money, at the very least I expect a GS hand-me-down 8L movement and nothing less.

[@september2126]

3500usd we can get breitling SOH 2 B20 with 98-99% like new and mint condition,😂😂😂,

[@omegafanboyian]

Well you sure hit that nail straight on the head for sure ! ! When paying this kind of money accuracy must be a major factor , would be like buying an Aston Martin that struggles to achieve 50mph 🤔

[@ID-Guy]

I was thinking of sports car analogies too through the video. Like having a Porsche exterior and a 1000cc engine. Not terrible BUT doesn’t match modern standards 😉

[@omegafanboyian]

@@ID-Guy Seiko could & should be delivering a product that is nothing short of a Wolf in Sheep's clothing but unfortunately is more a Sheep in Wolf's clothing.

[@Tartandagger]

Well said,i bought the Black limited edition with the 6r35 ,watch is stunning but the movement is shocking got to reset it every 2 days ,takes the joy out of wearing it ,

[@HarryStoneDotCom]

Another superb video. Great work!

[@ID-Guy]

Always a pleasure to share (and vent these) Harry 😉 Thank you sir! 🥃

[@ridewith7480]

I think, most people is a bit hard on seiko... people always compare 62mas vs Tudor BB.. if you google Tudor Black bay ... they have more models than 62mas........ Heritage Black Bay 79220N - in three colors.. Black Bay 79230R, 79230N, 79230B - from ETA to in-house Black Bay 79250BM - first bronze Black Bay 79230DK - DLC coated Black Bay 36 79500 - 36mm Black Bay Chronograph 79350 - first chrono Black Bay steel 79730 - first all steel Black Bay Date S&G 79733N - first steel and gold model Black Bay Bronze Bucherer Blue 79250BB - 2nd bronze model Black Bay Harrods 79230G - first green bezel Black Bay GMT 79830RB - first pepsi Black Bay Fifty-Eight 79030N Black Bay 36 with blue dial Black Bay 41 79570 Black Bay 32 79580 Black Bay S&G champagne dial 79733N Black Bay Chronograph S&G 79363N Black Bay 32, 36, 41 in steel & gold Black Bay Bronze 79250BA Black Bay P01 70150 Black Bay Chronograph Dark 79350DK Black Bay Fifty-Eight Blue 79030B Black Bay Fifty-Eight 18K 79018V Black Bay Fifty-Eight 925 silver 79010SG Black Bay Chronograph 79360N Black Bay Ceramic 79210CNU Black Bay 32, 36, 41 silver dial Black Bay Fifty-Eight Bronze 79012m Black Bay Pro 79470 Black Bay GMT S&G 79833MN Black Bay Chrono S&G 79363N champagne dial

[@buckethead84]

If you want the watch demand 30% off msrp, or don't buy it at all. However, as insidious as it may seem, I think that Seiko know that for pretty much any of their regular production models with the exception of some hype watches that 30% off is a reasonable demand which is why they release these limited editions to counter the demand for discounts. What they could do is put their big boy pants on and deliver products with value to match the suggested price by including regulated movements and better bracelets. But I doubt we'll see that anytime soon unless enthusiasts turn away from the brand en masse.

[@Jtjustintimberlake]

That is a real shame. I never full realized how bad Seiko movements are. As you say, Grand Seiko is available to them.

[@Yorkshiremadmick]

Great Video as always. What’s your thoughts and take on the Seiko Bullhead or Seiko Pogue? 70’s watches

[@ID-Guy]

Seiko Bullheads are fantastic! Such a unique look. Honestly, one of their most unique designs on offer (also instantly recognisable) 🥃

[@janbroekema]

It's a mass product..produced by machines...tolerance's are to high! I think! Very good video!

[@donmongoose]

Seiko peaked at the end of the last decade with the "king" series and their pricing since then has left me confused. 500-600 for a turtle or samurai, but with a ceramic bezel and saphire glass is classic seiko value for money and the product/pricetag area they should focus on, once it gets over 800 me, and from what I've seen and heard from other people, is where I start looking at other brands.

[@nerychristian]

Yeah, I miss the days when you could buy a SARB035 or SARB066 for around $300. I loved those watches. When I would wear them to work, everyone would stare at my wrist. I would even find Rolex guys checking out my watch. The price of watches in general has gone up a lot.

[@michaelj8793]

The newest Seiko presage like the GMT or the power reserve with the sub dial date indicator That can all be had for 500$ to as low as 350$ with the same accuracy or even better accuracy would make a much more welcome to any Seiko fan Do your homework first before you regret yet another Seiko purchase Avoid the hype because that's exactly what they want you to do Exit the hype train ASAP Thanks for sharing your honest thoughts as you do my friend 👍

[@tolgai.altunova5858]

Seiko is special. If you once get into it, you can‘t get out. My SLA051 Uemura is beside my omega speedy racing and rlx gmt II and many other swiss made watches the crown of my collection. Starting with +15 sec/day now it has Chronometer accuracy.

[@DanielMealo]

🎯 This watch came out at about 3x the price I expected. Nice watch, but Seiko thinks it is nicer than I do.

[@marcgirard7551]

Great review! True price of this piece makes no sense given the quality available from Tudor at the same price. The new diver GMT in the Prospex range suffers the same disease as this watch you reviewed: it’s not special enough to justify the difference and I’d rather just get the Seiko 5 SSK variant over the Prospex and have a pile of money left for another watch. This new Seiko should have had a GS derived movement for sure.

[@e36boy]

I have 3 Seikos and 2 of them at like 15 to 30 seconds off. However my SLA055 is amazing with half a second a day, the grand seiko movement is great.

[@ID-Guy]

Ah! Those 55's are crackers! Crazy how consistently inconsistent their watches can be 😆🥃

[@domgledhill4165]

Thanks for the very informative video. I have to confess a real lack of knowledge/research from my point of view here. I need to do a deep dive into these myriad Seiko releases - they seem to be better at sub dividing niches than Mercedes do with their cars! I'm repeatedly drawn towards the SLA017, but I keep seeing other Seikos using the same design language for a lot less - causing real confusion; an educated guess is movement/finishing quality. Probably shouldn't be commenting on something I know so little about on such an educated forum. I definitely need to explore this in more detail. Enjoyed the vid whilst sipping a Johnnie Walker on a nice relaxing saturday evening 🥃🥃🥃

[@BrianPorter2Bs3Cs]

I wore (and still own) a 7002 daily for 25+ years before it started showing signs of losing time. Bought a SPB143 when they came out in 2020 and had to send it back to Seiko within the year because it would periodically just stop. Almost feel like this re-issue re-issue is a money grab banking on 62mas nostalgia and hoping no one asks what's under the hood. The SJE093 is the 94 V6 Mustang of watches 🤣

[@benjaminklos9637]

At this point I’ll only buy a seiko if it comes in quartz. I’d like a 62Mas style watch in quartz

[@bottomtext5872]

The 6L movements have theirs roots back with the 4L movements which originated with Credor. They're not just R series moveents reworked, they were designed to be replacements for Swiss movts.

[@TheGabrielino98]

@@shawnlavigne9069 I own a SJE093 and it is extremely accurate. I think it only deviates a few seconds a week.

[@HHIto]

I stopped discussing the third-world class SPB watches; I woke up after my last hospitalization in 2017, my beautiful kitty passed (I turned 69), when I got home, I ordered a JDM Casio GW5000U 1JF (wow, I sold my EDW Rolex Explorer 1), bought two Seiko's to estimate my "wear time tolerance" [for me, it's about real-world wrist time, I found the 62MAS approximately 5% too large, researching the 2K-5K price point and nothing less than COSC accuracy. The Seiko starting point is 8L35b (MEMS technology); Omega has co-axial, 8800 movements in their daily wear Seamaster Planet Ocean, comments?

[@javierblanco7467]

My SKX runs within a range of plus minus 5 min per day or so but I love it.

[@ID-Guy]

This made me chuckle 😉🥃

[@divjan3990]

The bottom line is that Rolex is not so expensive when you see what is around 😆.

[@ID-Guy]

Agreed, COSC is a beautiful thing 😉 Can't say I've ever handled a Rolex, Omega etc. that have had low standards in this regard 🥃

[@sneak880]

Despite this review and the banging on and on and on and on about accuracy, Seiko will comfortably sell all 1965 units of this limited edition.

[@stevemoon2136]

As some who attempted (3 times) to add an SPB147 to my collection, but every watch I bought had issues, I disagree that Seiko's QC has "improved".

[@jaysp1910]

Nice pair of watches, the 62 MAS is such a grwat design . Good to see the quality improvement. The 6L movements are variable a best as shown by many KZbin tests. 2k$ for a watch with this movement supplied on a rubber strap seems steep. Still given the price hikes in the watch industry, looking at you Omega, it may be the new normal.

[@LeShark75]

I'm actually sold on this model. But, I'm ready to pull the trigger on the Tudor Pepsi GMT.

[@pk1342]

Confused by the comments in here. Are there actually people out there that don't realise that the 6L and 6R are entirely different series of movements?

[@HRM.H]

This video reminded me of the 2016 Eberhard Scafograf 300 reintroduction. That used to cost almost 4000 usd on the bracelet and had a basic 2824-2...

[@ID-Guy]

Very interesting. We’re still seeing it today with run of the mill ETA’s in pieces with exorbitant prices. But man, think I’ve experienced about 6 ETA’s in different pieces and they all run so fantastically well… bulletproof 😉

[@HRM.H]

​​​​@@ID-Guyyeah i personally dont mind ETA movements either. But when you consider Tudor released the Pelagos the exact same year, with a sliding clasp, inhouse movement and 200 meters more water-resistance it doesnt seem as attractive anymore.

[@HRM.H]

Its without a doubt a stunning watch, but oh my, that price... it shouldve been about 1000 USD/euro cheaper in my opinion.

[@ID-Guy]

Agreed, and ideally not a limited edition. Alas, we’ll never get what we want 🥃

[@HRM.H]

​​​@@ID-Guylimited edition means itll still sell out without having to offer good value for money. Smart on Seiko's end but awefull as a seiko fan...

[@ID-Guy]

@@HRM.H and that’s what Seiko themselves know, irregardless of price, the pieces will disappear before we can even blink 🥃

[@laurataylor5460]

@@ID-Guy 29 for the UK and they are long gone!!

[@randallhill7979]

It’s a great looking watch but price is a bit high. Excellent video, thanks 👍

[@eastcroft1967]

I bought the new Willard SPB153, 2 years ago and wear occasionally. It now loses 10min per day. Is it worth me upgrading the movement?

[@conorwhitworth5182]

In defence of Seiko, their recent Seiko 5 Sports '55th Anniversary' SRPK17K1 is a home run. A re-issue they've got very very right. I predict a Pogue next year. I just pray that they don't f**k it up. The SLA range is superb and very much worth their price. With this 62MAS/SJE093 I would just wait till it hits the secondary market and finds a price that people are willing to pay for it.

[@ID-Guy]

Well said Conor. In and amongst their many pieces they do have some gems that come about (agree that the earlier SLA’s did amazing work too - with Hi-Beat calibres? Yes please!) The sad thing is with an original watch like this, I doubt they’d ever be on the secondary market with less than double its RRP. The 62MAS is just too important 🙄🥃

[@nerychristian]

If they ever do release an accurate Pogue replica, you can bet it will cost upwards of $3,000.

[@hengpatrick63]

I fully agree with you. The increases in prices is like a run away horse. Furthermore, the vital time accuracy is bad. i have a Turtle re-issue and the accuracy is way faster and above 1 minute a day. Come on seiko, where is the QC ?

[@randallcrisp3266]

My samurai is really well aligned... But runs 5 minutes fast per day and less than 24 hour power reserve. Sending it back is so costly that I just live with it

[@Chrissepisje]

Now if you're in the market for a prime piece of dive watch history, and you want the best nostalgia piece you can humanly come up with, it's between the BB54/58 and this SJE093. For me, the Seiko wins, because I couldn't care less about METAS: I'm in the market for an anachronism. It's remarkable. You buy a Reverso with a movement that does -15 to +20 seconds, and nobody bats an eyelid. FWIW, it's non hacking and 30m WR. Seiko releases a watch with a loose spec, and the world goes bananas. But honestly, if I want an accurate watch, I'll buy quartz. High accuracy quartz if I feel finicky. My most accurate Chronomaster (Citizen) runs at max +5 sec per year. Any watch mechanism that measures missed time in seconds per day instead of year is ludicrous from a time-keeping standpoint. We don't buy those because we want to know what time it is. We buy them because they are beads and mirrors that enhance our sense of status, and because we like seeing a hand sweep across a dial.

[@nerychristian]

It's true. When I first got into watches, I was obsessed with having a watch that was super accurate, and was constantly worrying about winding my watch every night, and checking it every morning against the atomic time. But I eventually, when the newness wore off, I got lazy, and stopped winding my watches daily. Then I got even lazier and stopped checking the time on my watches. Now I just wear my watches like once or twice a week, and don't even bother to set the time. For me it's more about having a beautiful accessory that I can wear with my outfits. I'm constantly looking at my phone anyways, so I don't have to worry about knowing what time it really is.

[@TheGabrielino98]

I just bought the SJE093. I love it. Very beautiful and accurate watch.

[@philliprackow7153]

All the professionals went off to Grand Seiko and the interns remained to both regulate the movements, as well as make the choice which one to grab out of the bin to put into a random watch in the catalogue.

[@alexxela3933]

Had and have many seikos from low end to top end, currently I'm having 2 mm300 (sbdx012 and sla023) and one sje073. I'd say that over 20 years of having watches, I had movement accuracy issues on VC, Omega, IWC, Maurice Lacroix, AP offshore and RO- these are priced much higher than Seiko, and yet it wasn't quite there on the expected accuracy. From my experience Seiko use wide accuracy tolerance on paper and likely the watches will run better than that wide +/- range on paper ( Japaneses are conservative), on the other hand other Swiss brands use tight +/- range and fail to deliver quite often from my personal experiences ... Despite of the price increase, I believe that Seiko still offer fantastic value throughout their range ( including GS and Credor), price increase is applied to almost everything on yearly basis so let's also be realistic and factor the global inflation... Take rolex or any other Swiss manufacture 30 years ago, and look at their prices today... The increase ratio is surely bigger than Seiko. Just my 2c

[@rndmgoon]

You nailed it. Well said 👏

[@LenHere]

I LOVE my land tortoise, so much it inspired me to start making watch videos. It's a handsome piece that punches way above it's weight class. But the movement is off 20-25 seconds per day, which is kinda nuts. i have 2 Ali Express watches that do way better.

[@JasonMilner]

I'm seriously considering the SPB143, even then at £1,150 with a 6R35 it's a little over priced, but at that level I can live with it. Now the SJE093 is a much better finished watch yes, but the movement is way out of spec vs the price. I guess Seiko are assuming that buyers that care will get their watch regulated after purchase?

[@KentuckyMan30]

Seiko is somewhat of an enigma when it comes to their movements. I've had 4R's, 6R's, 6L's and 8L's. I've owned and borrowed about a dozen 6R's and it's really a mixed bag. Some run as good as +2spd, others have run anywhere from +30 to a whopping -60. It's all over the place. In terms of accuracy, if I can get 20 seconds a day or better, I'm happy almost regardless of price. So in that regard, I'm not a big stickler for accuracy. However, it's a roll of the dice with Seiko I find. It's probably my biggest criticism of the brand. Yet, I'm still a massive fanboy. I've fallen in love with more of their designs than any other brand and it's not even close. I find myself riding the Seiko train regardless of the movements.

[@wooddog3000]

I do love the look and the fact that it is 38mm. Do I buy one and have it regulated (assuming it would run much more accurate), or go for a Tudor 58?

[@gmshadowtraders]

Lol you can't even find of these bro, they were sold on in a few munutes. Go stick with tudor, they're everywhere no problem to get hold of.

[@setter55]

Accuracy is a bit hit and miss sadly with seiko watches. Movement in this is pretty good as its also used by many Swiss brands where its renamed to the soprod A10.