The Biggest Indicator When to Quit Full Contact Competition (Boxing, MMA, Muay Thai, etc.)

[@Judaka]

As you yourself said, CTE is caused by smaller hits too, which means a passionate competitor, doing regular sparring can hurt themselves way more than someone who is simply taking it easy and doing a fight every now and again. Really, any contact sport can cause CTE so if you want to do it then understand that you're taking on this risk and if you want to minimise the risk then you must limit any activity where your head is being hit or jolting.

[@aikibaby]

Bullshit. Ring fighting is a ticket to CTE.

[@erickcervantes7084]

Nope it’s the training camp that messes you up

[@richarddeyell2177]

I don't compete. I might spar as if competing sometimes...to acid test our skills...but I DON'T COMPETE!!! I train for SELF-DEFENSE FIRST and FOREMOST!!! I have changed focus in my life...but not totally...my focus has changed from focusing on COMPETITIVE TRAINING to SELF DEFENSE TRAINING (including WEAPONS TRAINING). This is what OLDER MARTIAL ARTISTS (including WRESTLERS and BOXERS, etc.) should not QUIT TRAINING but should switch their focus from COMPETITIVE TRAINING to SELF-DEFENSE TRAINING and to HELPING OTHERS LEARN & DEVELOP....but you should NEVER QUIT MARTIAL ARTS ENTIRELY!!! Take a VACATION...like YOU SAID STEPHAN KESTING...but they should NEVER QUIT!!! Just CHANGE FOCUS from COMPETITION to SURVIVAL once your COMPETITIVE DAYS are OVER!!!

[@airoHYT]

Well I do it for self defense, but I don't have motivation to train. I too used to compete and quite seriously, but now I'm over it.

[@ASM881]

I think all this self defence stuff in nonsense. You are preparing for a fight that likely will never come. How many hours do you really spend walking through a bad area at night? Not much. Your time would be better spend learning how to sew or guitar lessons. At lest then you could mend your jeans or play some Nirvana songs.

[@thedan2333]

@@ASM881 Well, it's a good workout at the end of the day so win win

[@manopu2113]

@@ASM881 " Its better to be a warrior in the garden than a gardener in the battlefield."

[@carlomiranda3799]

​@@manopu2113Well said.

[@markmahnken6409]

I kick boxed for 6 years in the late 70's to early 80's . That was around the time that Sugar Ray Leonard received a detached retina and another pro boxer by the name of Two Guns Sparrow went totally blind. A wake up call. For me toward the end I started to get visions out of my peripherals similar to looking at a small heat wave off the black top after taking a hard shot to the head. The impaired vision would last for a couple of days. I decided I wanted to see my kids grow up rather than go blind entertaining a crowd that wouldn't give a damn in the end. Fighters die twice.... Really hard decision to give it up but was best for me and for others also. Went to the optometrist the other day and they asked me if I had ever experienced any head trauma in my life after taking photos of my eyes. So the damage is forever. I think I got out soon enough I hope, time will tell. I'm 65 now, quit at the age of 27. My advice is to get really good at defending yourself and kicking ass and get out of it before you are knocked out cold or receive permanent damage. Save it for the streets so you can protect the ones you love if necessary.

[@bsdetector6908]

Save it for the streets? Its the streets where you're more likely to be killed, than in a ring. IF I HAD TO - and that's a big if - I'd rather box/kickbox in a ring than in the street where someone who's had too much to drink might jump on my head. Having said that if you need to defend a loved one then I guess you have no choice.

[@markmahnken6409]

@@bsdetector6908 It doesn't mean you go looking for street fights. You are just ready and still capable of defending yourself and others better if you don't have brain damage.

[@bumpyroad3251]

Unfortunatelly in order to be effective in the streets protecting your loved ones and yourself you have to train hard in the gym... And that's how repetitive trauma accumulates over time and suddenly got a poblem...

[@garrettzanin940]

Only if hard sparring, which actually might not be necessary

[@markmahnken6409]

@@bumpyroad3251 True. First signs of trauma get out.

[@IronMongoose1]

I love the iPhone analogy and am stealing it. Great work as always.

[@blackomega4061]

It seems to me that when looking at a lot of fighters that are showing symptoms of CTE or have already been diagnosed (like Gary Goodridge), the x-factor seems to be how they spar. If you get knocked out badly after a long fight and you start hard sparring in the gym even after a 30 day medical suspension, your brain isn't going to have any time to heal. You're compounding on the subconcussive and concussive trauma that you absorbed from your last fights. Just as you mentioned, all brain damage is dangerous, but I think that things like your fighting style, gym culture, and training methods could make it significantly worse. UFC fighters like Robbie Lawler and Tony Ferguson have said that they don't spar in the gym anymore for that reason. I think it is important for fighters to have a plan early on in their career for if they ever find themselves frequently losing memories or displaying any symptoms, but I know ego often gets in the way of that.

[@ChaosCarl97]

Yeah sparring is probably the most important variable. But gary goodridge is an extreme case since he has been knocked out like 20 times in his career.

[@FGKing-gc3xn]

Sir, good video. This video is about life in general. Losing interests in hobbies is a part of life, like you said.. I'm sure that those who have trained many years in fighting sports can relate. I've been boxing for 11 years and have completely lost the love for the sport after a couple of amateur fights. A broken nose and a concussion - not fun. In the end it really does leave an impact on you... After quitting boxing I got into BJJ and submission wrestling. Best decision I made. I might not be 100% committed to the sport, but I love going into the gym whenever I can and grappling knowing that I won't be taking severe damage to the head - all while learning techniques that can be applied in real-life, self-defense situations.

[@steve00alt70]

but your ears will suffer thats the trade off

[@rchycola7744]

I trained for about six years and got to to 4 professional kickboxing fights then I started to get headaches really bad after training and eventually had to go to call it quits

[@sakissakis7992]

Unfortunately, there is also brain damage in grappling arts, but I think it is much less than the striking arts. For example, a Judo throw makes the head of Uke (the person that is thrown) accelerate and decelerate when Uke makes his breakfall on the ground, so the brain in his skull moves around and gets concussed or sub-concussed (even if his head does not hits the ground). Of course, if someone gets better in Judo, can't be thrown so easily, so it is not the same as Boxing or MMA, where every practitioner gets hits in every sparring on the head. The same goes for wrestling. Also, there have been some cases where BJJ practitioners during they training, had been choked and after the release of the choke, the arteries did not come back in their original shape and were kept closed, or they did come back in their original shape but a small piece of them had been detached and travelled through the arteries to the brain, causing stroke. In these BJJ cases, the brain either does not gets the oxygen he needs or gets this small piece which leeds to stroke. But again, I think that the grappling arts are less prone to brain damage, compared to striking arts. Thank you.

[@tfforster7078]

tell me about the judo part I'm the uke for demonstration and i get a lot of acceleration and deceleration i just bulked up my neck muscles and tense them all the time so i no longer have anywhere near as much force going through my skull.

[@kunstlerprime2081]

Honestly this is part of what draws me to Karate. Even if it isn't the best for raw fighting ability, the fact that sparring tends to be lighter contact makes me feel easier with still learning striking but not having as much worry about brain damage.

[@baneofall5783]

Same. I'm looking into kyokushin because it's full contact minus punches to the face.

[@disconunu3210]

@M. K. you think you are though go to sleep kid

[@steve00alt70]

@M. K. or just learn Akido if your that afraid to get punched

[@MrRobertFarr]

I like Karate in theory. The competition are great. Only Karate moves are allowed. Thinking it through. It's great to perform it safely. Sure, I read the karate book. It's an intelligent culture. M.M.A. is too rough. The, kicks, can go wrong. Like, imagine a karate, or kicking Roundhouse kick? The toe must be pointed. Get a roundhouse wrong, it could break someone's back! It's great to have belts. I think. I can, do lovely stuff.

[@AchillesSeventySeven]

If you and your partners are intelligent about it, sparring in any martial art is light.

[@Levi-1992]

Simply put…do what you love for as long as you love it! Do not only apply this principle to sports, but to life overall, guys! Trust me it will save you a lot of time and misery.

[@pichetkullavanijaya6908]

This is the best and most useful information that a martial arts practitioner disclose to mostly ignorant martial arts enthusiasts.... FYI, brains injuries are profound and irreversible, and degenerative. ... All praises for telling the truth on this one....Thank you, Stephen Kesting Sensei... Btw, my Dad suffers profound injuries to the brains. He boxed throughout his life, and a champion boxer at West Point and throughout his military career

[@mtsestudos7145]

Could you tell me what cte symptoms your dad has?

[@pichetkullavanijaya6908]

@@mtsestudos7145 : dementia to the point he can't speak, cannot remember his own children, cannot remember that he graduated West Point in 1958, that he was Airborne Ranger from Ft. Benning, GA, cannot remember he fought in Vietnam, Laos, and Central Thailand Highlands. Cannot remember he was Army Deputy Chief of Staff, Cannot remember that he was a Privy Counselor to the late King Rama IX on National Security, Cannot remember his own children, cannot remember he married my mother in Chevy Chase, Maryland and they had 3 children together, cannot remember our names, cannot eat by mouth and liquidized food has to be fed through a tube to his stomach, cannot go to the bathroom by himself unassisted, cannot remember he graduated West Point, can not remember he was tightly associated with US military and intelligence...he cannot talk... Cannot remember that post retirement he started a not for profits Muey Thai camp pro Bono by gathering his former subordinates from the army to train slum kids of both genders so they don't get involved in drugs, gangs, and prostitution. Many if these kids were given scholarship and graduated university. Several made it to the Thai National Muey Thai team. Cannot remember that he took these kids to Moscow several times for demonstration and exhibition for Russian audience. Cannot remember that he is loved.

[@ant1724]

It was fun while it lasted. At least i tried, I tried.

[@Joel-xy7qg]

:(

[@santanuroy9101]

You have explained it very nicely.

[@rhodrimorice7746]

Great video! I look at it this way: The best weapon any martial artist can ever have is his brain and his intelligence, why destroy this for inferior weapons like a kick or a punch, especially for self defense! Obviously a bit of balance is best but never at the detriment of your brain.

[@ronmiller3319]

Thanks for raising the issue. This needs to be discussed. Too many people train too hard for too long. Its your choice but know that there's a price to pay. The same wear and tear that accumulates over time in your body - even the little dings - also accumulates in your brain. I have a lot of elderly clients, some of whom aren't all there, so I see it up close. Protect your brain. Trust me, you don't want to have dementia, Parkinson's, or any other degenerative brain disease, and you don't want that to be your family's experience caring for you when you're older. And sometimes, it is early-onset, affecting people in their 40s and 50s, some of whom will live with it for 10-40 years, if it doesn't take them while they're middle-aged, which happens.

[@aikibaby]

It's not "training" that's the problem. Fighting is something to avoid unless you're just stupid.

[@TheMuscleMan2244]

I started MMA when I was 30, which is late for combat sports, so I’m considering sticking to healthy sparring and training over competing and taking shots to the head. If I do compete, I’d rather do a BJJ tournament. I’d much rather get choked out in a triangle choke and go home safe than get a concussion during a title fight. Doesn’t meant I can’t be a good fighter, just means I want to prioritize my health over being the best 🤷🏾‍♂️

[@mosescola4174]

There are top of the line mma fighters quitting but their early to mid 30s. Plus it’s not even about how hard and how much experience as a fighter you have that matters. What truly matters is the amount of fans you can bring to a venue and the money you can rack in performing in each fight. If you are broke, homeless and little to no fights alongside a not so good record, then it’s time to quit. Its not for everyone. Plus mma fighting isn’t worth it. The sport will ruin your life more than it can enhance it. People will look upon you as a violent person and you’ll be denied qualifications to everything you have worked for.

[@chasemoeller8707]

Thank you for this video, i have six amatuer fights, and i started to question if it is really worth the damage anymore.

[@adamzoubi96]

this might be the most important video on this channel! and for me especially i needed to hear this.

[@C3phoe]

One note. Fixing the plaque build up is on the horizon With radio waves you can tune to the resonance of only dense hard things. They are currently refining this

[@luiztigraomuaythaidicas]

Good points, sir!

[@maxzhao8331]

Good video, anyone wanting to do mma need to hear/watch this video

[@2lilwoohoo]

Great video man i fully agree as I gave up fighting a few years ago because hdhd and concussions dont mix my question is what do you do when the fire to fight is there but body wont let you

[@Docinaplane]

Lower your expectations and find people who understand and will fight at the level that you can accomplish. No ego.

[@spray31]

Thanks, I'm 32 and though I am feeling some of these things I also feel I am close to some titles so I may see the year out and see how I feel.

[@steve00alt70]

If your doing sparring once a week it shouldnt be an issue. The thing becomes an issue when they want to do it more than once a week.

[@glowingsquib9380]

Eye damage is sadly another factor to consider if you have bad enough myopia. Your odds of retinal detachment skyrocket due to blows to head when you have severe myopia

[@MyCommentsRMaturelol]

Whoa where did you read that? Scary

[@TK-fc8rh]

@@MyCommentsRMaturelol I’m pretty sure Sugar Ray Leonard has eye damage from boxing.

[@MyCommentsRMaturelol]

@@TK-fc8rh fair, eye damage isn't uncommon but the myopia bit shook me

[@CJ-uf6xl]

Hope you're well.

[@hichaelhyers]

The problem here is, as you said yourself, even the smaller blows you receive in light sparring put you at risk of developing CTE. That would be like regularly taking that Iphone out of your secure box and throwing it on the ground. So, actually, the only good advice here would be to quit altogether. I haven't seen any good argument as to how this could be any different.

[@ThePrince_x]

Yeah that's the conclusion I've come to as well.. Problem is, I don't know what sport to replace boxing with other than lifting weights?

[@chojinkid]

@@ThePrince_x I'm in the same position, I did light sparring for 4 years and now I suffer for long headaches everytime I spar, so I had to take a break and I'm not even sure if I should pick it back up, I'm 44 Yo now and I don't really wanna age fat, the only alternative is body building cause combat sports is all I like, and sparring other than that it only gave me so many benefits...

[@АртоВэнтьфорт]

Wrestling ? Judo ? Bjj ?

[@hichaelhyers]

@@АртоВэнтьфорт CTE is present in BJJ, too I'm afraid. I mean all in all it's just a horrible sport for your body. Joints, knees, ears, head. You're putting a lot of stress on the body. Now I know everything in life is a trade-off, but what I'm saying is true.

[@АртоВэнтьфорт]

@@hichaelhyers it's fun though

[@Sigrt]

The fact that Stephen felt he had to compare the brain to a smart phone for people to understand it's importance made me lose the last bit of faith I had in humanity.

[@joshuasmith1215]

People have been stupid and ignorant for forever. I think we just notice it more the older and wiser we get.

[@butterf1sh]

Excellent video

[@brentsummers7377]

I think some boxing gyms and muaythai do a lot of sparring because it's more 'exciting' than hitting a bag etc etc. And because the coach uses sparring as a way for him to work with boxers individually. Take a typical training session in Thailand. The whole group goes for a long run. They come back. So how does the coach organize the rest of the session? Some will go & punch/kick heavy bags. Others will practice clinching. Maybe four at a time they do sparring. The coach works one on one with the boxers. Some of the small Thai gyms might have only one ring but it's big enough for 6 to 8 people at a time. Think about it. If there was no sparring how long would kids stick around??

[@NicholasGreen-b6e]

In Thailand They don't hard sparr They stopped that maybe 30-40 years ago U get kicked out the gym in Thailand for going hard

[@richardyamato]

Yeah I regret going back to taekwondo at middle age I can't keep up with the young ones nor do I have the time to train more I need to do work every day to pay the bills

[@ts0088]

What if I don’t even love training that much but MMA is all I like and been at least not bad at (don’t know if I’m good) but Training almost every day because of discipline. Where is the point when you should quit?

[@Eric_Bodyguard_H]

I still love training but its getting to a point where i keep getting injured so i think its time to quit OR take a very long break

[@danilo6548]

Thanks for your advice. However is worth to mention that also chockes in grappling can cause strokes, which can cause brain damage. So also grapplers should not feel super safe with their brains. What to do? In sparring you do not have to hit full force the face of your partner, in rolling you do not have to chock full force your partner. More easy to say than to do.

[@pleasestop1760]

Thankyou for sharing.Do you think neck exercises,help with preventing concussions.

[@aikibaby]

Plenty of guys loose their brains long before they lose the love of training.

[@jayve4433]

How could a shorter person succeed against a taller opponent in sparring, tournament or street self defense fight

[@Killerspider762]

Bite their Achilles. They will collapse to the ground writhing, giving you easy access to the jugular which you bite straight out of their neck.

[@user_____M]

@@Killerspider762 lmfao

[@user_____M]

Wear steel cap toes for street defense. Tournament is about weight, not height, basically you'll have to be faster than the other guy or put your weight better in your moves.

[@NicholasGreen-b6e]

Learn specific sparring drills Distance and timing drills

[@CoachKen10]

Great video

[@ryba7846]

I usually get a 3 day headache after sparrings, is this normal? Should I quit?

[@MizanQistina]

That's a sign... take a time to relax and don't get your head getting hit anymore. My late brother was a rugby player, not a professional but he just love rugby. He had some games weeks before he died out of stroke in his sleep, he got high blood pressure that "blow up" his brain. The doctors are curious why such thing can happen, they said my brother already had injury in the brain so when he got high blood pressure, out of being stress or something, it just "pop up". My brother do complain he had headaches days before he died, he vomit a lot too...

[@MizanQistina]

@S It have been 5 years now, he gone too soon, at 42. His death give a big impact in my family. Many things could turn out differently in these 5 years if he is still alive. Just be careful 🙂

[@julienwanis7583]

@@MizanQistina rip

[@mtsestudos7145]

@@MizanQistina he jpgpu for many years ?

[@MizanQistina]

@@mtsestudos7145 what is jpgpu?

[@redsnflr]

I don't know how soccer hasn't banned headers already, if you took them out of the game there would be no intentional brain damage & be safe like basketball for your health, it changes the game but headers is the reason I wouldn't let my children play soccer (which I did growing up & specifically avoided heading the ball if I could, especially off kickoffs when the ball is kicked 50+ yards) & it seems very negligent with the knowledge we have now to not ban heading at least at the youth level, which inevitably lead to the pro level probably because you'd have generations of new players who never headed the ball in their youth.

[@manopu2113]

I started muay thai and want to have just one amateur fight when I become good and ready for it. Is it still dangerous for brain?

[@Bigdogshaving]

Of course

[@topolo19]

If i light spar once a week as a really amateur. Do i run this risk at high rates? I don't want to fight, just practice the sport with other amateurs for physical fitness and mental reflexes.

[@topolo19]

I do kickboxing

[@thedan2333]

Sparring will inevitably lead to minor concussion that might cause CTE or not, I personally spar 4 times per year with well know partner that will not put me at risk

[@ChrisandAri.]

@@thedan2333 I’ve had 4 concussions is that really bad? What’s a normal amount people have? Thank you!

[@MrRobertFarr]

Go for it?

[@MrRobertFarr]

I don't know. Try and do sparring without head punches? Proceed when safe?

[@denshaotoko2437]

Does this happen in grappling and weaponry too?

[@MrRobertFarr]

Shooting, target practice. I recommend. The Cross Bow. It can be broken down. Or more better. The NERF Gun ! NERF guns, are not Lethal weapons. Fun, to play with. Close, to armed combat.

[@MrRobertFarr]

I got shot with my own crossbow. Non lethal weapons are best, because someone is, pretty much guaranteed. Going to steal it and use it on you. You might have a crazy moment of sadness. I have NERF guns, they're really fun. I am mainly into target practice. I have one with a light or laser sight. I often play with the light.

[@ASM881]

That wasn’t just a rat, that was an EAST VAN rat!!! Cheers from Commercial Drive!!!

[@The-Contractor]

Best solution is don't be a "savage in a cage" for entertainment purposes and to enrich some dirtbags who push it. Rare hard contact, start from no set up, 3-5 second bouts at about 2/3 real world speed (according to the Science) and intensity is sufficient to "pressure test" your MA skill set.

[@highfrequicyvibes9342]

How do the monks train there skulls rigorously and avoid cte.

[@NicholasGreen-b6e]

By not taking hard head shots

[@FGKing-gc3xn]

Around what age do most people start losing interest in fighting sports?

[@magicdinho107]

70 y/o

[@NicholasGreen-b6e]

Depends on the person

[@abdullahmufti]

I have a question. What if you don’t compete proffesionally and just do it as a hobby with possibly competing when you get good, is there still a potential risk for brain damage?

[@katokianimation]

If you are getting head trauma durring training, even light bumbs bc it is just 20% bro, then there is the risk of long term negative effect on your brain. If you are fighting you will get hit and potentianally can get K.O.-d wich is bad for your health

[@danilo6548]

there is only one way to be totally safe, do not compete and more important, do not do sparring. Training without sparring, will put your brain at 0 risk. The issue is that you will improve the technical knowledge of the Martial art only until a certain point

[@RM-lh7on]

@@danilo6548 what about heavy punching the bag? If I hit 100 % for a minute I feel a bit of a pain in my head.

[@danilo6548]

@@RM-lh7on that is not an head trauma. Keep punching the heavy bag is actually good and also consider that your hands can be conditioned, your head no. So heavy bag can be good for your knuckles

[@tenpercentfordabigguy8550]

Im 61. Should I stop sparring?

[@RayOliverMMA]

Do technical sparring only, body, shoulder no head

[@NicholasGreen-b6e]

No Keep going

[@NicholasGreen-b6e]

Thats the reason why its meant to be light sparring to the head All these videos of guys punching hard to the head in sparring It makes no sense

[@pichetkullavanijaya6908]

Phanphet Phadungchai, 26 years old Muey Thai boxer had a fight with a French Muey Thai fighter at the Thai Air Force stadium some 2 weeks ago. He was TKO'ed, and was in a coma until 4 days ago he died leaving behind a young wife and a 2 years old daughter... The Frenchman vowed never to get into the ring again... Boxing, what a stupid sport, and that goes for "Full-Contact Karate", too... In your 60's if you are stupid, you will begin to have Dementia, or Alzheimer. You might have to wear adult diapers because you cannot retain your stool and urine. You will forget the name of your wife, and for that matter you were ever married. You will forget that you have children... These are the things that you can look forward to... I see these things up close, and very personal... Here in Thailand most Thai fighters are poor people just like in the U.S., and see boxing as a way to lift them out of poverty... For every $100.00 that is made, the manager and everyone else take from it, and the fighter get less than 50% of that money... Short career. Terrible quality of life... Most spend most or all the money earned on things they never had, or give away to relatives like building houses for parents, and give money to brothers and sisters... Then after boxing career is over, they return to poverty... This pattern is repeated again and again... On top of that they have brain damage, Dementia or Alzheimer... All around a very bad idea.

[@venkyparashar5712]

Humans are not iPhone 11

[@clunt4095]

rlly