Sensibly Speaking Podcast

[@Jess-xl1wd]

Dans book is amazing!!! I am finding everything I can to show love and support! ❤❤ Thank you again for sharing and having Soo much courage.

[@colette6984]

I binged this docuseries yesterday. It was horrifying. It reminded me of a couple things that I've learned about scientology from all of you in the ex-scientology camp.

[@colette6984]

In the doc, I saw that Felicia had the book, Combatting Cult Mind Control by Steven Hassan. I first heard about this book from either Aaron on Growing up in Scientology or Claire and Marc from Blown for Good. Thanks for this interview! I watched this documentary on Disney + in Canada.

[@marknpm]

Excellent. This certainly puts the kibosh on the conventional wisdom that a lack of education makes one more vulnerable to cults.

[@hippipdip]

I do wonder if there’s any correlation with the “openness to experience” personality trait.

[@tinkthestrange]

I don’t think that’s conventional wisdom, the Manson family had college kids as well. Many scientologists are highly educated. Honesty 2 psychology students being abused this way tells me that school didn’t give them the tools to identify abuse in their own lives, only in abstract. According to California state: According to studies, some which can be found in Lorne L. Dawson’s book The Sociology of New Religious Movements, cult members fit relatively similar demographics across most New Religious Movements (NRMs). Common characteristics that emerge between members of various cults include: a higher level of education, a weaker spiritual background, higher financial success, younger age, and fewer time constraints.

[@Danielle-nz9tn]

I think that could only become “conventional wisdom” if the education in question actually taught people about cults. I think you might instead be referring to the belief many people have that only dumb people fall prey to cults, which of course could not be further from the truth. Any one can be vulnerable to coercive mind control, due to any number and combination of factors.

[@Bambino_60]

That’s not conventional wisdom

[@DebraJean196]

Maybe conventional belief but not conventional wisdom would have been a better choice of words. Our education system needs to teach coercive control or some other type of class that teaches our younger people to recognize these traps before they fall prey to these predators.

[@thoughtquake7516]

Such a great interview! I am still in recovery 20 years after leaving my leader of what Lanje Lalich describes as a one-on-one cult. Daniel beautifully articulated his experiences which resembled mine. Cults are cults. It's all about control.

[@cyndeetaylor]

I applaud and appreciate all those who are speaking so courageously about this. I think the reason that all of this is pouring out now is the realization that all of us are touched by this, whether it's through the microcosm of an abusive relationship with a cult of one (or many), or seen through the macrocosm of the world we live in. The culture/structure we live in seems to be very cultish and narcissistic and these individual stories help us all come to terms with it, tell our truth and realize we can all be seduced. And ultimately begin to heal.

[@thomkatt3385]

definitely this.

[@kulaniwarner7262]

Well put.

[@kayrcee]

Great episode Chris! ! Larry Ray makes Miscavige look almost sane.

[@jayerscios]

I think this is an important doc for everyone to watch. Many, in my experience, don't want to look and learn about this. In our cultures, we are not taught to identify high control groups and individuals whose only aim is to abuse and control others. It's more prevalent than you would think! These victims show an excellent example of how normal people fall prey to manipulation very easily, especially when still young and do not have fully formed brains yet.

[@krazyoldkatlady192]

I’m so grateful for the documentary. It was so well done and respectful and sincere. It didn’t feel like it was done for ratings or for views. In fact, if you want to learn about what happened in this case, I would strongly urge you to watch the documentary instead of the true crime channels on KZbin that only present this case for clicks/views.

[@heatherwhelan1376]

He left, even though he had to give up on certain things. He really let it go and left with his uncertainty. That was so bold. God bless you.

[@Trenchant468]

My deep condolences to all the victim-survivors, and appreciation to them for their willingness to participate publicly in exposing this experience and the techniques to which they were subjected. Most people desperately want to believe that they could never be flipped into a cult, or “join” as the public and the media see it. This documentary, with the advantage of so much actual footage from within, brings to light really for the first time what takes place inside a coercive milieu, facilitating the loss of self, values, beliefs, and volition which takes place. I would beg to differ about the age group vulnerability. It may be a factor which is worked by the abusive leader, and part of a path into a young person’s life, but I think it’s crucial that we highlight that these techniques will work on anyone. Under the right circumstances, anyone may be vulnerable. It is ultimately a prisoner of war situation, and even with prior training on the techniques and resisting, we know soldiers can still be broken down. And the veneer of the ideology can be anything, from religious to political to pseudo-therapeutic, etc. The commonality is the techniques, though Ray was especially sadistic.

[@kulaniwarner7262]

Well said.

[@philosopher2king]

I saw this on Hulu and it was extremely disturbing and sad. I feel for each one of these kids, especially the siblings. It's beyond sad that their working class Dominican immigrant parents got all their three kids to, not just college, but Ivy League schools (the older sister getting full rides to both Harvard undergrad and Columbia Med school) That's an accomplishment most traditionally well-off American parents don't pull off, and that waste of air Larry, led them astray like a depraved piper.

[@100push-upsguy6]

I investigated the case and some things are misleading or exaggerated, for example no one has given Lawrence Ray the diagnosis of psychopath which is crucial since a psychopath cannot show remorse. Chech my own video of the case

[@philosopher2king]

@@100push-upsguy6 Why would a medical diagnosis mean anything? He DID and is GUILTY of all those crimes. That we use the word "psychopath" in a non-scientific way is not the point.

[@taunihenderson6884]

Thank you for this. Please do more on this subject of false memories and gaslighting. You are so compassionate and kind to the panel. I watch all your videos and so appreciate your work.

[@elliesimpson1313]

This fantastic video is so helpful, Chris. My heart goes out to Dan. You all are so right. Anyone can be a victim to this abuse. I was well educated and had been working as a professional for a few years when I met future husband. After 19 years of mental and finally physical abuse and a psychotic breakdown. 30 years after I divorced this malignant narcissist, me and my children are still healing but so much better off. I pray my grandchildren will be equipped to recognize the signs. Thank you Dan, for sharing and getting the word out. As a PS, I thought I'd recognize preditory people as a encountered that with a couple of college professors and got away from them. But it didn't prepare me from falling in live with the narcissist I married. I didn't realize he was gaslighting and love bombing me. I knew nothing about narcissists. I sure do now, though.

[@yoni905]

Wow terrific interview! Thanks Chris!

[@aryafaaz9345]

👍👍👍🏆👏👏👏

[@nerminodkan401]

Excellent Interview and Documentary!!

[@Grrrroar44]

Wow what thoughtful and important exchange of experiences. Love this!

[@thomkatt3385]

I second that.

[@melniee2551]

So interesting. Thanks for this!

[@BatmansKiss]

Rewatched this almost a year later. Still so relevant. Saw another documentary on Peacock that discusses Iban a little more and his suicide. If you ever do a follow up on this other documentary or a Where Are They Now style it would be so enriching. Thanks Chris.

[@merricat3025]

Good interview

[@juanitamartins]

Great documentary and great interview. I'm glad you did this Chris, because I decided to watch the documentary before seeing your video, so in a way, I feel like you recommended it to me, and what a great recommendation.

[@panninggazz5244]

Thank you am for teaching us how undue influence can get anyone

[@philosopher2king]

39:20 the show the Sopranos deals precisely with this. How therapy can often turn a socio/psychopath into a more dangerous socio/psychopath. I’m very sure that Larry got a lot of therapy, and through it he learned even better how to manipulate people.

[@metteskreativitet]

Great interview.

[@runrachellady]

Thanks for the interview! I loved reading Dan’s memoir and highly recommend to everyone who will listen :)

[@AtypicalPaul]

Great conversation. Now I need Hulu, lol

[@Janet-FromanotherPlanet]

Bought Daniel’s Audio Book, Slonim woods 9. Great insight to his life

[@Janet-FromanotherPlanet]

Bought Daniel’s book (audio Book). I love that you told your story. So brave, I had to keep listening.

[@ChasenElaine]

Can't wait to watch

[@jenniferm2799]

Wow ... This was such an eye opener... The part about rewriting a person's past really hit home for me. My parents were good for doing that to me.

[@rca6576]

I cannot even imagine how Daniel and his family must feel. As a mother reading about his abuse made me nauseous. I don't think that Lawrence Ray would have lived to make it to prison if Daniel were my son. My god, Lawrence is pure evil.

[@leo122]

Fascinating interview. Nice to see three intelligent people using logic and common sense to arrive to meaningful conclusions. Cannot be found easily on KZbin or anywhere else these days but this channel certainly offers it.

[@dthompson9568]

Thank you for sharing your story 💥💥💥💥

[@terryallen7356]

I hadn't heard about this before so I plan to watch Stolen Youth. It's horrendous what people live through and thankfully sometimes they get out. I'm glad the problems with cults are starting to make it into the mainstream, not only to prevent people from being sucked in, but perhaps for family members to realize the danger and learn how to get loved ones out. Back in the 70's it was called "deprogramming" when families would kidnap family members from cults.

[@lisbethsalander1723]

. My God, the beautiful kids got so harmed by a professional Malignant Narcissistic Psychopath. My heart goes out to them. 60 years is not enough for Larry Ray.

[@Trenchant468]

RE: law and undue influence/coercive control: Recall that 17? Y.o. who was involved in murders (from a van?) but taken in by an older man who was behind the acts? Can’t locate the details, but he was held responsible as was the actress from the sex cult. Edit: And Patty Hearst is another example. It’s heartening that Britain has changed laws to account for coercive control. Here in US we jail women who defend themselves against their abusers.

[@celestesmith3044]

Wow He is so brave I remember what I was at that age I couldn't easily joined a cult

[@sarahhayslip1793]

Had to stop pod cast and watch documentary. Such a sad story 😞. I was in an ifb cult for 20 years. I can relate to brainwashing but not to violence. Praying for everyone involved 🙏

[@loveall503]

Sad.

[@nothingworksworks3511]

IMO that era mostly lacked common identifiers--"coercive tactics, manipulative listening, love bombing, gas lighting, malignant narcissism, undue influence, human sex trafficking" etc. Few could communicate what was happening?

[@rca6576]

Most people think that only truly gullible people can be coerced in this way. That just isn't true. Mind manipulation is extremely powerful and the people who use it against others are devoid of empathy. It can happen to anyone.

[@ShamotaTalaRinpoche]

Thanks Chris for a fascinating episode. Just a word of warning (is this called a trigger warning?) for anyone who's been through the same sort of memory rewriting etc. that the documentary might be quite triggering, especially episode 3. I know it was for me. Still a great documentary though, just maybe don't watch in the wrong state of mind.

[@Trenchant468]

Ray/Grecco(?) strikes me as a sadist who gets energized via torturing people. He also got shelter, indentured servitude, sex, and money, and power. I think his motives are clear. Sadly therapists who have no coercive control knowledge or training, which is most, can certainly pile on the damage.

[@lisbethsalander1723]

Yes, he did get so energized and righteous. Well said!

[@w8tingonu]

I havent seen the doc i certainly am interested. Unfortunately i am fully empathetic already knowing all to well the experience so much so to express my experience as " stolen youth " here i believe is another good expression giving a " false confession " like through an on going interrogation. Put a price on the loss time YOUTH potential formally existing monies etc. Then ending up in another cult experience within aa/na atleast in my case. Let go of all ideaology of group think including religion (my best advice) i cant think of any retort other than to survive and after so much loss it sounds most normal to just blow my own brains out. Ftw literally. How does one stop being a victim when they were? Stolen youth was formally 7 years than 3 more to deal with it and all the same shit happens again literally as a result. I cant prove none of it to anyone but definitely lived through this and cant make it make sense to me let alone anyone you tell it to. Stolen youth turning around now is three decades of what should have been my most productive.

[@emmalouie1663]

56:50 -- he compares himself to Larry in the context of Larry claiming he had childhood abuse. I am not trying to defend Larry at all, but from a developmental point of view childhood abuse from a young age may be very different than college age students being abused in the sense that college age students may not have been abused when they were kids meaning they have a different emotional make-up. So I am just saying it is a false equivalence for him to compare himself to Larry. If Larry is a narcissistic psychopath it probably did not start all of a sudden at college age.

[@kashesan]

The kids were normal-it was Larry with his savvy prison predatory mentality that was at fault/issue. He was, like Manson, released from prison into a perfect petri dish for his festering.

[@tashathayer4069]

Can't afford HULU or other add on New Shows. ✌

[@kimberlymarino7344]

If you have a used up visa gift card you can use it to sigh up and use the free trial. When it's over if you forget to cancel it won't be charged to your card. When I was a student I did this and it allowed me to watch things I wanted or needed to without forgetting to cancel and getting charged money I could not spare...just an idea.

[@victoriachristian4379]

Great interview!