Steve Hassan: Spotting a Cult, Hidden Hypnotism & Indoctrination in the Digital Age

[@joecollinsphoto]

Thank you for mentioning Scientology. I lost a brother to that cult 25+ years ago and it breaks my family’s hearts everyday.

[@PandoraWake]

I’m so sorry to hear that. I lost all my friends in there when I left:/ I can’t say they were never my ‘real’ friends. But $cientology indoctrination overrides the heart.😔

[@MISNM0]

💔🫂🫂💛

[@ninamasfina]

I am so sorry about that. I am grieving too. I lost my family and my freedom before. After years of taking some one else's morals and beliefs I needed to be deprogrammed.

[@Mo3624]

Thank you for this episode. As a cult survivor, this is something more people need to be aware about.

[@muellerphyllis]

It’s crazy, my brother and sister were in a cult in the late 70’s in Rogers Arkansas. My brother still is in Alaska. Those people broke him.

[@Mo3624]

@@muellerphyllis I'm so sorry he's still in one. 😔 They're way more common than what people think.

[@tiffanysmith7419]

I grew up in fundamentalist christianity. I wrestled with it on and off, but was so programmed that by the time I was in my late twenties, I totally doubled down on my beliefs and even worked for the church and then a christian video production company. Not everyone in the church at large believed the exact things I did, some didn't believe as strongly, others were even more dogmatic. I was a "born again Christian" but 100% believe my mindset was in a cult, and some of the churches I worked with during that time were cult like. I was told I couldn't trust my own thoughts, could never remarry after divorce, was made from man and was here to serve them and was less then them as a woman (something my mind completely fought against, but another side of me thought perhaps I was being 'disobedient' and 'rebellious' for believing I had more value than that). It took me having a near mental breakdown and leaving that work and environment, and (other than family) isolating. I finally allowed myself to start looking at the doctrine of hell and finally my logic won out via a book that said all the words in the bible that meant a place of eternal torture for anyone who didn't believe were mistranslated. Once that belief fell, everything did. I was so brainwashed though, that it took years to 'deprogram' completely and trust myself. I was in it almost 40 yrs and feel SO lucky to be out. I still have family all around me who think I am a deceived and evil person for leaving it. Everything he is saying about feeling satan might deceive you is what I went thru. I completely believe that much of fundamentalist evangelical Christianity is a cult. No question.

[@marypatton1122]

I think Christian churches with any rules are very cult like.

[@GracieDontPlayDat]

I agree that Biblical inerrancy is detrimental to the Simple Gospel of Christ (believe and be saved). Yes, Gehenna is an actual place on Earth that was literally the dumpster fire of Israel. What about the “Outer Darkness” mentioned in Jude? The place a soul can travel to without Christ that LSD and kundalini yoga show a foreshadowing of. There are plenty of churches and online sources that reference Outer Darkness as a “separation from God.”

[@changeurfuturewithvaughan]

Steven Hassan is awesome helped me a a lot to get out the cult I was a part of.

[@bearwoody]

Welcome to your freedom brother! It's incredible the things we were led to believe. After over 30 years I still shake my head at many of the things we were led to believe and to do.

[@mirfir]

Congratulations!

[@marie-clairedelongchamp1330]

I recognize all of your faces! So pleased Mayim is bringing this to her viewers/listeners.

[@f.d.r.f.d.r.3187]

@@bearwoody Then don't believe these people. They are brainwashing you.

[@great-garden-watch]

@Vaughan van Heerd How did he help you? In person? My mother needs help so please let me know

[@lyndsaycarder7729]

This was so fantastic. As someone who was sucked into a culty religion for 15 years (and recently pulled myself out), this was so enlightening (and completely enjoyable). Also, I am an enthusiastic interrupter, so I appreciated that I am not alone in that.

[@leluefran]

Steve Hassan was the first person I ever heard say and validate that there is such a thing as unhealthy "coerced" empathy that makes one an easier target for abuse! It helped me understand that my family of origin is somehow a narcissistic cult.

[@ZemplinTemplar]

I am glad he stated it clearly.

[@TheLordsbattleaxe]

I can relate.

[@rubberbiscuit99]

Same

[@pmfg875]

Yeah my partner calls it false concern and it’s used a lot in medical quackery

[@SarahStephanieLandry]

Thank you so much for this episode. As a cult survivor, myself, ("Nithyananda") Dr. Hassan's work has been immensely helpful in deprogramming, and helping me speak to current members as well as those who are waking up.

[@champigranja1179]

I'm glad you got out. It must be really hard.

[@theself5738]

Nithyananda? LOL He is the biggest joker and troll in the “spiritual” scene. You have to be a narcissist (or aspiring) that desperately wants attention or to be special to even remotely follow such a loon

[@ItsMikeSandovalsYouTubeChannel]

glad you got out

[@drvren030]

OMFG I've heard so much about him and how much he exploits his position and his followers. So happy you made it out, honestly how did they even convince you to follow someone like that in the first place tho??

[@Deprogrammer470]

My grandmother went to that church, Moon church, before the terrible reputation of that “church”… I never even met her, she lived in California and I lived in Nova Scotia. Still… they think they own us, decades after she died.

[@Inrxz]

As a relationship cult survivor i cried seeing that a figure that has such recognition with the general public like yourself has posted something about understanding cult control. This is a topic that most people refuse to understand and it has been so damaging to victims like me. Thank you so much for platforming Stevens work.

[@christinesmith1803]

So sad that right to life taking away young girls life and forcing her to have a baby saying they are saving two lifes is wrong their not God they cant save anyones life and most adopted babys when grown go find their biological parents if the girl dont have a job,and wont to finish school etc. reported that this girl dont have parents so now their forcing,intimidate,scaring her to give up her baby sounds like a foster kid in the hands of a cult she will hate them Republicans for this who told them their better not GOD they need to stop trying to make decisions for others and go heal themselfs from their own abortions we know and God knows why they are trying to control people go seek your own mental health.Im for go adopt a child their already here and waiting!! forcing a child to have a child is horrible sure not because they care about anyones life!

[@christinesmith1803]

Everyone is religious !

[@katarinatibai8396]

@@christinesmith1803 Milions of atheists disagree.

[@barnahappy3573]

Love this episode. 👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾 Key message “we need to learn & talk more about ethical vs unethical influence”

[@nerminodkan401]

That would involve talking about legal and illegal . What is Justice and Injustice. Overall, sadly the scale of Justice ⚖️ is in favor of war crimes.

[@williamwhitten7820]

Section 7.3 of The Principles of Medical Ethics With Annotations Especially Applicable to Psychiatry (sometimes called “The Goldwater Rule”) explicitly states that psychiatrists may share expertise about psychiatric issues in general but that it is unethical for a psychiatrist to offer a professional opinion about an individual based on publicly available information without conducting an examination.

[@realtalktinaann]

As someone who was abused by a person who did the love bombing and manipulation to get me to trust them and then bam did things change. This is good for any type of controlling relationship.

[@josemendez7046]

The intersection between cult and religion is real. You can apply many aspects of cults to almost any religion. I'd like to hear a real objective discussion about this. As a gay man who had to de-program himself from Christianity in order to live an authentic life I can tell you that I found myself relating to many aspects of surviving cults.

[@DawnDavidson]

Christian fundamentalism is definitely cult-y. Any fundamentalism is, but Christianity is the biggest example in the US today. I had a similar experience as you, I think, as a bi/pan/queer person raised in fundamentalist Christianity. It took a long time and a lot of informal deprogramming for me to really recover from that. I think I was over 50 when I realized that my mom believed some truly crazy stuff and I didn’t have to believe her.

[@samueljennings4809]

I think the biggest difference would be more about behaviour. Religions can be culty sometimes but ultimately it’s about spiritual development without hiding things in a manipulative manner. Most religions don’t try to separate their followers from their families, while that is something that a cult would do. Basically, it’s whether things are straight-up from the on-set or more manipulative in nature. Religions are often sincere and open, while cults are deceptive and manipulative.

[@evilbarbie2160]

Religious trauma syndrome is real, Scapegoat, narc abuse survivors of all kinds. Groomed as kids to be submissive and give our power to others.

[@vernss3092]

Oh my. In 1974 during my freshman year of college I nearly joined this cult. I mentioned my thoughts to an acquaintance who spent a bit of time educating me about cults. I am grateful to that person. I was not actively recruited by the group so it was easy to move on. However, I remember how compelling the brochure was to my young seeking self.

[@Nan-59]

I'm happy you're friend warned you. I lost a friend in about 1979 1982 occult called "the way international". She/husband, parents/ family are still in it it. Incredibly sad! My middle sister told me and warned me about it when i told her what my friend was into. Sister was 10 years older than me. I'm thankful she knew better!

[@carolinemaybe]

I met The Family. They used flirty fishing. Lucky I didn’t follow up.

[@f.d.r.f.d.r.3187]

Thank you for writing your experience. They're using all avenues to undermine D.J.Trump. Notice how she mentions his name only once. It's surely likely to grow. Stay sharp. This is brainwashing of a serious kind. People will get hurt. You were fortunate. There's huge sums of money backing this trend. Could it be that they write their own positive reviews? Yet they still ask for more dollars. Those that pay will keep paying. They will use those dollars to buy more recruits. Keep writing. Your story may save others.

[@TheDoniellemichelle]

@@f.d.r.f.d.r.3187 who are you talking about? When you say ‘they’ who are’they’?

[@merricat3025]

@@carolinemaybe they are awful. What they did to children is beyond repulsive. Started by a real pedo.

[@madelinerosemarie]

Of all the amazing podcasts you've put out, this may be the most societally important one Mayim. Thank you.

[@margaretkinnaman8585]

I agree

[@mirfir]

Jonathan Cohen is a doll!! I love him to pieces!

[@kimslone5185]

I'm very excited to be living at this time when these issues are being discussed openly and so clearly.

[@DonnaMayStanish]

I agree 💯

[@LorraineinPNW]

This program completely "hit home" for me. During the pandemic, it became very clear to me which family members have no clue what scientific method and real research are, and that it can and should be relied upon when followed with fidelity. I am shocked about how many people believe that their "theories" should be respected by me. I have spent hours educating people about science and legitimate research. This was such a great episode!

[@akmediascope]

Don't give up on educating your family. It's truly liberating. "Talk radio" destroyed my former husband. It's so sad.

[@kristinedoty7876]

I realized that I could spot the difference between college educated and non-college educated. It all comes down to critical thinking skills. I'm the only one in my family with a university degree and have found that, past a certain point in discussing something, my family just shuts off and think I'm crazy. I was the kid who was always asking; Why? Why? Why?, I understood that there was rarely a finite answer to any question, there's always more Why's.

[@graftme3168]

​@@kristinedoty7876That's s a little cultic to say!

[@kristinedoty7876]

@@graftme3168 Nope, just on the spectrum.

[@graftme3168]

@@kristinedoty7876 Well, it doesn't seem like a college education has been helping with critical thinking skills for quite some time. That's why they can't get jobs. They're more "woke" than educated.

[@ayahshope]

Steve! So happy for this pod cast! Steve’s work helped me survive being raised by an abusive neglectful family as a Jehovahs Witness during two of the most insane decades in their history. He helped me, then helped me help others with everything he wrote and posted online. Thank you Steve, Mayim and Jonathan for this pod cast 💜 Disagree with Jonathan on science not being the basis of truth. I’ve been dealing with Q-anon family members and that’s one thing they say. You can’t trust the scientific method but the scientific method is all we have as a basis for truth and reality.

[@gratefullyfedincanada6266]

The scientific method can be trusted. But researchers are skilled at manipulating it to get results they want. Hard to pick up on this. And science is political and competitive for funding. There is a lot of fraud. But not in the method itself, but when it is utilities incorrectly. Science is not about agreement, it’s about always asking questions and never being certain of much. This is no longer the definition of science that most people use.

[@ayahshope]

@@gratefullyfedincanada6266 Oh I definitely agree! The scientific method is our 100% solid link to reality but people have to use discernment and critical thinking to see the fraud. In science, other scientists will eventually confirm or disprove the hypothesis. It's what they do.

[@questioneverything7582]

So the great "De-Programmer" thinks he's free from his cult, yet still participates in the biggest cult in the world.....the Germ Theory Cult. He's a hypocrite! Every disease is based on the Germ Theory, which was the theory of ONE man over 100 years ago. It was never proven to be 100% valid, and has not even been QUESTIONED again. Why? In order for a theory to be valid, it must be reproduceable in each and every person 100% of the time. Every single person exposed to a "virus" MUST get sick from it 100% of the time, over and over again. It's how you PROVE a theory is valid. This was never done. To blindly believe ANCIENT "science" that was never proven MAKES YOU A CULT MEMBER! Scientists used to think witches and witchcraft were real!! Educated people?? hahaha!! If you cannot "catch" cancer, arthritis or diabetes from another person, then you cannot "catch" a cold or flu. There is no such thing that only SOME diseases are communicable, but not all. It's either all or none of them...they are all based on the same Germ Theory. If you can't "catch" someone's lung cancer, you can't "catch" their colds or flu. Upsetting and distressing events in a person's life is what cause ALL cancer and cancer-equivalent disease, cold, flu, pneumonia, bronchitis, etc. A massive fear campaign will CAUSE people to be "worried sick", but sickness doesn't happen until people resolve their fears. Why do you think kids get sick in October? Because their fear of going back to school and being upset about it finally dissolves, and they get back into their routines. What the media and government is doing to people is criminal. Western Medicine is pure fraud. I can't be the only person in this disgustingly brainwashed world who knows about German New Medicine. Watch and see how many people have illnesses now that they've been released from their prisons of isolation and complete loss of their life's work. Watch for chronic "outbreaks" of appendicitis (fear for your life), lung cancer (death fright), colon cancer, liver failure, root canal emergencies........watch it all happen and know that it's all been caused by the Fear Campaign sponsored by the US government.

[@swedishlina]

@@questioneverything7582 🤦🏻🤦🏻🤦🏻

[@patriciacipolla1588]

Bb,

[@rljohnsufl]

This is kind of alarming. I had never heard of NLP or any of the other mind control methods discussed here. It's not just about cults; like Steve said, it's used by PUAs, marketers, self help gurus, etc. Everyone should be aware of how these techniques work and how to defend yourself against them.

[@margaretkinnaman8585]

Also used by MLM people.

[@doofchikadoofchicawaawaa6029]

NLP is also used by politicians and heavily used by journalists on the news

[@Jersey.D3vil201]

The operative word here is DEFEND. We will defend our homes against strangers no matter what they promise...well most of us won't. We don't let them in, find out they're dangerous, then try to figure it out after the fact. We don't let them to begin with. We need to do the same with our minds and hearts.

[@doofchikadoofchicawaawaa6029]

Media and politicians use NLP A LOT!!! It helps to give them more influence Its easy to see once you know

[@annabell3385]

Lots of cult people supplement their incomes with MLM work. I don't know if it's part of some cults or if those people are more susceptible.

[@feminist5641]

This was a great episode and very informative! Our country needs to be having this discussion and we need to seriously consider teaching children how to digest all the media they are bombarded with. Steve is correct in saying the digital age is completely new to us, we are in unchartered territory and need to move forward carefully and thoughtfully.

[@starpenta]

I think he can be optimistic bc he went through it and was able to come out. I have family that are trumpists and it feels hopeless. They are SO defensive. And when I think I've made a point and got through, a few days later I'll overhear them say something that makes me realize they absolutely have not. Great show! It's good to know it is possible.

[@twilit]

yeah and they have a persecution complex - but remember that he finally came to a realization when he was arguing vigorously and defensively with someone - but NOT because of anything the other person said, because of what he finally heard himself say and realized how crazy it was. It may not work for everyone but if it weren’t for the people who took the time to try to reason with him he could’ve stayed in the cult way longer.

[@MoteOfDust430]

Amazing. Thank you for this. "Love, Joy, Respect, Do No Intentional Harm" "If you do un-intentional harm, apologize, do whatever possible to fix and don't do it again". Let's start teaching this in nursery schools all the way up!

[@KellenAdair]

Right up to M.D.s, too!

[@pattyamato8758]

Exactly why the cult fears and fights against early childhood ed, and education in general

[@chrish7814]

Should really bring Leah Remini onto your podcast! Her podcast is great and really an expert on Scientology from having lived it.

[@HEARTProgramOR]

Mayim, you did an incredible job in this interview. I can see why it was so important for you to be quiet and let this man speak. Your guests are so interesting!

[@thedeergarden3964]

I was a Nichirin Buddhist for a few years in the 90’s. Luckily it was a fairly benign cult and easy to leave, but the harmful thing was I felt I humiliated myself by putting chanting before other interests. I am still working to undo my shame even after all this time. Thanks for the great program. It helps to have clarity about how cults work on your psyche.

[@Geoplanetjane]

Be your own best friend and forgive yourself for all of your errors and mistakes, especially for anything you may have done as a NS buddhist. You thought you were doing the right thing. Just be eternally grateful that you did get out. Rejoice each day.

[@roadlesstraveled34]

yes, this comment above! Being a human means making living a life of trial and error. When I read your comment my first thought wasn't "for shame! How dumb." I thought, "this person must have so much experience and wisdom from having gone through this. They have the ability to help a very specific group of people because they have the empathy and knowledge to do so." Sending a hug to you💙

[@1fancygirl]

Ex-cult member right here. I had NO idea I was in a cult at the time. I heard pp call it a cult, but I defended our "school" (the state was led to believe it was a harmless massage school). "We are learning life skills..if you were in it you would understand", was my response to them. The "teacher" had us doing her dirty work, and would have a spy for her and gather info, along with creating chaos, etc..while she sat back and manipulated us like puppets. Eventually she had us doing dark magic against others, and I started to see through her BS. When I finally left after 4 yrs, I had accepted my fate for doing so..death. Somehow she had programmed us that we would die if we left. I was harassed, followed, and threatened for 2 yrs by the other students, by her command of course. I really wish I would've had someone to de-program me after I left the cult. I had no support from anyone. Its been 16 yrs since I left.

[@khany556]

I understand what you mean. I distanced myself from a religious cult, my whole family is still pretty much in it. I can't leave them. It's only been a few years but they treat me like I'm mentally ill. So it's not deadly but you definitely need to get into your own spiritual journey to counter the effects of this evil. Just promise us you're not going to start your own cult 💞😭😅

[@dorothywillms115]

I think both of you would benefit with some counselling. I was excommunicated from a small rural church and given over to Satan for the destruction of my flesh. It was devastating and changed my life. Don’t go to just anyone either,do your research.

[@bearwoody]

Thank you Mayim. This topic is essential. As a cult survivor, again, thank you.

[@amyklotz8795]

I’m

[@amyklotz8795]

Hi I us u I I

[@jonmurcott6110]

I second this, and for the same reason. Thank you, Mayim!

[@celtglen]

I too survived the 12 steps, EST and the rest. Thank god for psychotherapy!

[@bestbotreview]

Ive put Jesus stuff up & read the bible for months & they still try to lure me in to their 5 yo sex cult any more ideas ?!?!

[@lunasong11]

Thanks so much Mayim! I've been following your career all my life and just discovered your channel a few years back. (we share the same birth year BTW ) I was raised in a cult and still have ptsd from the experience. This podcast was recommended in my feed. I'm so happy that it was! I can't afford therapy right now and this episode was like a week of therapy for me! Thanks again for starting your amazing podcast!

[@m_brokenleg]

Jonathan! We all share your Mayim’s cult in different levels of “programming”! And I swear I’ll never let anyone to “deprogram” me! And yes, great truth: humor sense and jokes help us to deal with the most serious life’s questions. It’s healthy, healing and what make us humans (as far as I know, no animal has humor sense..)

[@shannonrolfes5171]

I love this! This is how you have a conversation! You agree. You disagree. You move on. You still love each other! Yay!

[@belgrathsnape3765]

"15 minutes of game play can make you believe someone is your friend"??!! This has really freaked me out for my tween during the pandemic. As Mayim said- this has provided kids with a connection they couldn't get another way and it did provide positive support. But we all know there can be a dark side to this! With "the fight", I agree with Johnathan. Only certain people will be able to unplug from social media. Mayim has careers in science and the arts so she can unplug. I work in advertising and social media is a part of how I earn my living. Some would argue that I should just change careers and I don't disagree. The point is that technology is part of many careers now for better or worse. While some people can unplug without economic impact, I agree with Johnathan that this is far more complex than just a matter of self control.

[@dkecskes2199]

Ditto on all points. Kids (and teenagers!) have a very hard time being able to get together anywhere in public, since capitalism has taken up all the space between and around their bedrooms and houses, and declared that they aren't welcome unless they are actively spending money there. No wonder they want to socialize online, it's the only space that still lets them be there, even though they still pay for it in their attention rather than their money.

[@barbarabertoldo4504]

@@dkecskes2199 This is FUNDAMENTAL, we used to have more spaces to interact socially.

[@adriennetaylor8923]

I love the show guys! Totally binged them all a few weeks ago when I discovered it. Now they don't come out fast enough lol. I'm a cult survivor, rape survivor, child of divorce from an abusive marriage and a divorced domestic abuse surviving parent of 4 girls. Every episode touches on something that I have dealt with. My daughters and I live with depression, anxiety and ptsd. Please keep making these forever. You're doing amazing things with this show. Life is hard for everyone for lots of reasons. Every day is hard for me too. The terminal uniqueness is real lol I resonate with all of the things.

[@countrydancingtonight7215]

This was a great conversation! After spending 22 years in a Fundamentalist Christian cult, I was happy when just a few years out, I found Steven Hasaan's website and started to understand what had happened to me. I regret the years lost, but am also happy to have wisdom about undue influence and how to spot it.

[@ivanacurak1228]

Brilliant discussion, this is very much needed and will help many people! Steven’s books and video content helped me realise I was in a cult and I am so grateful I was able to escape and reclaim my life and power. Keep up the great work ❤️

[@susansnyder2420]

Fascinating conversation! At the end, where you two were talking about truth, the only thing I kept thinking about was when I learned to not only listen to my rational brain, but my heart. Not my fears, but my connection to my intuition and messages from my body. If someone makes my neck hurt or my chest get tight, or my insides suddenly constrict, they are absolutely not for me. And my truth can be different than someone else’s.

[@jennnay2335]

I just wanna say thank you, Mayim. I love the topic, and I’ve loved you since I was a little girl. People called me Blossom because we looked a lot alike and I have a real energetic personality/like hats/flowers lol. I loved it. I trust the products that you rep for as well and I just ordered my first one and I’m excited about it. Thank you for being someone in the know that is trustworthy and for bringing us helpful information. This is a great interview! You & J are a fun duo 🥰

[@nnejiemmanuel4354]

Hi Jennifer How are you

[@loukalicious]

I agree with Jonathan, we need the algorithm to be working better. I find it useful when I research things but at the same time I want to be able to control its direction to stay sure that I get all the information. the good and the bad. ❤️

[@rturney6376]

Mark Twain- “it is easier to fool people, then convince someone they are being lied 🤥 “, Mayim!

[@barbarabertoldo4504]

This is so valuable and necessary, thank you!! Critical thinking is widely required, there is still hope.

[@nahariadar]

Super interesting and important. I feel like this was not enough, need part two 😄

[@barbdowns1]

I loved that argument at the end! Nice brisk exchange of thoughts between friends who have a difference of opinion. That was a very honest and clear interaction that I wish more folks would engage in. Steve Hassan is one of my inspirations. I’m so grateful for what he does and has done since he left the Moonies. It’s always a treat to hear him in an interview or speaking. Thanks so much for doing this show!

[@laurac5451]

Everything being said about cults is what I've experienced in churches I've been around.

[@mirfir]

Hugs

[@rturney6376]

I find Mayim in denial

[@Historian212]

I would have liked them to talk about the difference between cults and "regular" religious groups. The line can be very thin.

[@jennyhughes6597]

Me too!!!!

[@simulationdisruptor6033]

@@Historian212 lol yep

[@lizafield9002]

THANK you for tackling this crisis of our time & sickness of the human brain. It's rotting egalitarian governments & democracies, families & friendships from within, but it also keeps people from noticing & helping the living world of soil, water & wildlife around them.

[@Historian212]

Wow. Well. In 1974, while Steve Hassan was becoming a Moonie on L.I., I was going to college in nearby Hempstead, a town he mentioned. The Moonies were constantly after students to talk with them, take their literature, and attend their meetings. They were one of many active cults at the time, but they stood out for being numerous and aggressive. Maybe he even came to my campus.... As it happened, I became involved in a very different kind of cult, but never broke ties with my family. I also harbored real reservations that I kept to myself. The strange thing about cult membership is that even if you think you can leave anytime you want, you're being subtly controlled and strongly influenced by others in the group. It can be insidious if you're unprepared for it. I eventually came to an "Aha!" moment on my own -- and it was, as Hassan said, like a light suddenly got turned on -- and slowly extricated myself. It was horribly painful -- for one thing, I'd gotten married to another group member -- and I lost contact with every friend who had become like second family to me. I'm so glad Hassan is helping others, and is offering anti-cult education. BTW his comment that those with certain brain differences are more susceptible than others to cults is right on the money. I was a high-functioning adult with undiagnosed ADHD and NVLD (a newer classification often given to those who formerly, in the US, were diagnosed as having high-functioning Asperger's). Both diagnoses were finally made when I was in my 50s.

[@muliefriend4785]

Dr. Hanson is a true lifesaver ❤

[@dorasneddon774]

Extremely valuable. Thank you, Mayim, Steve and Jonathan. Let's remain open, embrace enquiry and keep our own locus of control, no matter how challenging that may seem.

[@Liciablyth]

Thank you all 3 for a wonderful discussion. Including the sparky bit at the end! NOT a fight and a good way to show that we can discuss things amicably and differ without rioting, homicidality etc.

[@ChiaLiChien]

This is the best episode of all! Steve explained so well about what we are as a society and how could be be on the “truth” side of the spectrum. But there are more to be done. Education alone will not work. The techniques of asking question(s), be silent, and help others to make the switches. Thank you Dr. Bialik for making this episode relevant and relatable to our reality today!

[@orland0110]

Excellent guest and such an interesting topic. You are truly amazing Mayim and thank you so much for two podcasts in one week to make me really happy and to make my Thursday and my week!

[@safepethaven]

Steve, that sounds much like the Amway recruitment cult I experienced from a relative by marriage, or the Jehovah's Witness cult who approached me in my own home following tutoring her daughter in math and chem, or... I am so grateful that my parents encouraged me to be observant, inquisitive, and skeptical/doubting, to ask lots of questions [respectfully], thoughtfully consider everything that makes sense and especially that doesn't, and to feel comfortable making my own decisions even when seeming to go against the tide of "trending."

[@rosannecornelio3618]

The most intelligent discussion of what is happening with our country over the past years thank you for the understanding

[@tania2897]

This is the first Breakdown episode I've put time aside to watch. Very glad I did, not because of the subject matter, specifically (though it held my interest) but because of the format and interaction. Thank you for your worthy contribution to the constant noise.

[@jaimesoule]

Oh my gosh..........stay until the very end. I think my favorite part was Jonathon and Mayim discussing algorithms and backpacks. Jonathan could NOT have said it better; so incredibly clear and concise. The banter between the two in the last 5-7 minutes was pure joy to listen to.

[@Julierue]

I love this episode. Damn, girl. I’m so thrilled that you are sharing yourself and all these people this way. Thank you ad infinitum. 👍🏼💖🥰

[@siobhanmccrudden7648]

Thank you so much for this. I have adhd and definitely think I was more susceptible to undue influence. I’d spent years being different so fitting in and being accepted was huge and made it hard to leave. I’m still wavering on weather it was a cult or not but the bite model is so helpful.

[@pamelaleannefreeland9025]

I am so excited that I came across this video! I have read about his BITE model thoroughly, and I am stunned listening and watching him. Thank you so much for presenting this information. It’s so incredibly important.

[@chaplainjenniferkatherine8762]

Great topic. I met the Moonies' followers when I was about 13 years. At the age of 18, I was asked to recruit on his behalf. Even though I was young in age and in my faith. I did not accept him as the Messiah. Thank you all! ~Shalom

[@michelehenne2477]

Steve said to get other family members and friends to help talk to the person who needs help. What if your entire family has that belief? Everyone in my family wear red caps. They watch one of two news stations, both of which spout hatred and disinformation. I still talk with my family members, but not often. Mostly just hi, bye, how are you? And I love you.

[@shauna6815]

I'm such a huge fan of you, Mayim. You are simply magical, and I'm so glad you created this show.

[@CarlosDRuiz-ow9jr]

Best episode EVER! Loved hearing Jonathan speak for more than a sentence or two at the end. More PLEASE.

[@nataliesirota2611]

WOW! Thank you SO much for this program. Dr. Hassan thank you for devoting your life to such an important cause. Everyone needs to know this! I think we need the BITE chart as a setting on our media settings so that we can choose where we want to set the slider to our own choices, with full knowledge that it was a personal decision. Cute "fight" BTW. Mayim & Jonathan, I think you just proved you are the perfect couple!

[@Historian212]

Really. If that was a fight, then wow, I'm impressed.

[@theologytherapist]

Love that point about indoctrination in the digital age, in recognition of how hard it can be to remove oneself from repetitive reception of thoughts and beliefs. Once you start flowing with groupthink, all of that reinforcement makes staying within that so accessible.

[@jhz713]

When Mayim said, Anything can happen, that you'd like to have happen...Period! That struck a chord with me! Great episode!

[@Carolina-ji8pp]

Of course not a fight, a conversation! Jonathan was being realistic. He's just such an intelligent and wise person 👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼 Im always wishing we got to hear more from him. Don't get me wrong, the duo is just perfect!

[@DarrenDNY]

I'd love to see the first version of this interview!

[@ecosocialist9913]

thank you for this episode as a cult survivor i carry gilt and embarrassment and loneliness because of being blamed for my involvement and being a missing person during that time im also dyslexic things like this help people how have not experienced this type of thing understand.

[@CrochetLadyBird]

FYI I always listen to the end, I love the way you both round everything up. What I took from what Jonathan was saying is that even though there are truths, everyone has their own "truth". Some people will choose to believe none truths and the algorithm will reinforce those (potentially false) beliefs. And as much as some people will go outside and take a walk and clean the house and engage with real life, others will fall down the rabbit hole and refuse to look elsewhere. It's so important to learn new things and seek differing perspectives to your own. And while science is fact, and you can't argue with it, some people just wont have that knowledge, or they wont seek it out because it doesnt fit with their life view and they're quite happy with their little bubble, thankyou very much. People don't like change. People don't like to admit they made a mistake. Or maybe they think they can't understand it, they feel like they aren't smart enough to take it in. I suppose that's why Steve was saying that its important to keep things open and be a friend so someone who is in a cult, without telling them that they're wrong, because nobody likes to be told they're wrong. I suppose the best we can do in life is to keep an open mind and model that behaviour, and keep an open conversation with each other. I so agree about a control panel so that we can see things other things. I watch youtube a lot less now. I hate that it only shows such a small section of what's on here. Great episode, as always.

[@tylert.5357]

Wow Mayim and Johnathan.... this was engaging on many levels; emotionaly and phyiscally feeling this conversation. I resonated with what Steve was saying about virtual friendship feeling real on the computer. I was on Twitch for a short time and many of the content providers were calling their viewers friends AND people were paying them to stay on that platform (I too donated money). These 'friends' were giving their money to be friends. I had felt it was a form of busking, but it also feels like a form of non-sexual prostitution. Thank you once again for breaking down yet another interesting topic.

[@catherinemakohn6141]

This was a really interesting interview! I loved listening to what Steve had to say and listen to his experience. I think it is so important to make people aware of this and know what to look for and this impacts the world we live in,. I am grateful for the knowledge shared here today. Loved the banter in the close as well. I'm team Mayim all the way. :) can't wait for another episode! Love to all

[@nlartsdesign]

Jonathan got my exact point over the last statements Steve made. I think you can be trying science for good and someone might be on the back feeding a bunch of millions and alter the results and you at the other end might think this is truth as your peers above you sold out but you never knew. It's wild how this works. I've experienced supposed "scientist" that would say such things about a certain topics that were so amazing to me that I had to walk away truly (and I'm really open to conversations...till something feels repeatedly really wrong). A golden rule to identify something's off is: if you feel pressured to do something or say something, take a step back and unplug yourself from the situation. There's no 1 complete truth anywhere of anything.

[@Foozhow]

Amazing Episode, great guest. Awesome work Mayim. Thank you Johnathan.

[@TheDeaVibe]

Mayim you are on point when you talk about stepping back from social media and the vortex it causes in our lives. Creating a space on the internet that is cleaner and safer for our mental health is doable. It is just like any other self-discipline routine making the right choices and finding the correct content to interact with is key. It is manifesting our reality without all the toxic positivity, manipulation, useless conflict, and overall cultist behavior inherent in social media. However, there is a risk to this too, because not all content created on these platforms is reliable. I think this is a Gen X type. of thinking where we like to balance our options and see things from different perspectives making intelligent conclusions instead of being stuck on one side. Education is important and developing content like you do is geared to satisfy that need. I enjoyed this. podcast, keep at it, and thank you so much for doing this.

[@carolinemaybe]

Thanks so much for this. I have known a couple and I’m obsessed with them now. Too many people in this country have fallen victim.

[@annaw7437]

Equally enlightened and terrified... I was (as I come to realize now) NLP'ed by several guys in my dating life, and also now that my little boy is autistic, there is A LOT to take away for me from this episode. THANK YOU.

[@kirstena4001]

I really enjoyed your passionate discussion at the end, and it tied so perfectly into the issue in the episode of staying in contact with people we disagree with on certain topics 💜. My partner and I have very different political opinions, and also have 'heated' discussions, but those are the ones that make both of us really explore our own beliefs and biases. It's not always comfortable, but I think it makes us stronger and more informed.

[@kyliebritton5354]

So far my most favourite episode. Can't wait to hear what Bev thinks. Really enjoyed and so very relevant. Also- loved the matching outfits- the blue combo looked great on both of you 💙

[@abdiamidler2560]

Omg! This episode showed up in my feed and start watching it. I'm wearing a blue sweater and a black shirt!! I'm part of the cult, consider me in 😉

[@iniyaraj5665]

Thank you , something I needed to learn ,and this is a gees beginners video. Talking about something everybody should know but nobody is talking about ,Girl my respect for you grows every day.

[@ernestinasanchez5305]

I agree with Johnatan that technology cannot be pushed back. We may choose to ignore it, but is here to stay regardless if we agree with it or not. I also enjoyed your guest's discussing his own experiences as a cult member and as a professional telling us the technics used by the cults. Thanks Mayim and Johnatan for another great program.

[@kamarpreet]

Extremely interesting topic!

[@xzonia1]

This guy said he wanted people to learn the techniques of NLP and hidden hypnotism so they could recognize it and not be taken in by it, but then he gave us nothing to look for or help us understand it at all. Very frustrating! Other than that, this was a fascinating conversation and helpful in understanding cults and brainwashing better, so thanks! 🙂❤ I don't think y'all were fighting at the end. You agreed on the basic facts of what life is like now, but came to different conclusions on where we're headed based on those facts. Jonathan was pragmatic that we'll likely keep going as we're going now, and Mayim was optimistic that people can choose to change individually and live the lives they want to have for themselves. This likely reflects their own personalities, as we know Mayim decides how she'll live her own life and doesn't cave to societal pressures to be a way she doesn't want to be, whereas Jonathan is probably more of a go-with-the-flow individual who doesn't fight the current too often (don't know him so this is just a guess based on what conclusion he came to in this video). 😋

[@naomiwillemsen9836]

Look into ’milton language’. I’m currently doing an NLP Master training and the moment I realised just a few months ago I was born into a cult, which I physically left 14yrs ago, and looking into their teachings again, I could immediately recognize that language from the training. It’s tricky, nasty, ...

[@taniawebster5867]

So excited there was another episode and this episode was really interesting. I definitely learned things and enjoyed this episode so much. Bialik's Breakdown really has everything in one and every episode is so so special. Thank you Mayim, Jonathan and Steve for another incredible episode and can't wait till the next one.

[@vlmellody51]

I loved this episode! Please, please,please have him on again!

[@monikawaldner6654]

Many thanks for this episode! I'm a recent cult leaver as well and it helped me loads!

[@louisvlleguy]

Wonderful episode and good conversation afterwards. Thanks - as always.

[@Hfsdhjf]

I was in a mind control group which was actually a legitimate group therapy lead by a licensed group psychotherapist, but he used many of the same tactics and ended up alienating people from their family, adopting a pseudo personality and he had narcissistic cult leader personality traits of his own; he lured you in by saying it was the perfect place to work on your young seeking self issues, but then said you need 10-20 years in group and then you are just getting started.. had patients in his group for 10+ years.

[@DawnDavidson]

OMG - that’s what gives legitimate, ethical therapists a bad name! I am so sorry you had that experience, and glad you got out.

[@GenXersJustWalkItOff]

Re: joking during serious discussions such as this one... humor is a tool we use to be able to make it through them, sanely and all in one piece. It’s a much-needed buffer and release valve.

[@kathleenrichards1240]

I never miss a podcast - thank you for opening up my mind!

[@conniedeamezcua9031]

This has been such a great session. I have shared it on Facebook and with a few personal friends.

[@GratiaCountryman]

Re: the post interview discussion. When you get on KZbin, one of the first things you need to do is to go into your account settings an turn off Autoplay. Also, in the Notifications section of your account settings, you can disable recommendations. Under History & Privacy, you can clear or pause your watch history and search history. I thought this might help in avoiding getting pushed down a rabbit hole.

[@taramcdonaldortiz4810]

That is NOT a fight You two are amazing I agree with JC The truth will set you free ... ❤💙❤

[@lidialondres]

Mayim, thank you for stepping in and defend science.

[@Blade181]

Great channel ! I finally got to visit it yesterday and this was my first time watching n tuning in , and this was the video that was in my most recent notifications . I am so intrigued by your channel, your content and how you are so good and natural and impressive Mayim, its an honour to be here n I appreciated this so much im excited and just cant wait to watch another one and another one aha Fantastic channel extremely well done ! Thank you☺️🙏

[@laurac5451]

2 plus 3= 5. Always. Facts should not be up for debate

[@terriellenhenninger7938]

This was very informative. Wanted to note that people from all walks of life from far left to far right use these techniques to control others. This episode came across that most likely right wings have these tendencies.

[@anelam71]

I love his chart, and I feel like I'm in ethics/philosophy class.

[@mirfir]

Sounds like every college sorority & fraternity!

[@zuragainview9628]

lmao where's the lie

[@drstevenhassan]

certainly, many of them.... and hazing should be banned!

[@markmacatee4602]

I just don't know what to say (which, as you know, is extremely rare for me LOL). This was an amazing episode and so informative. I was born in 1965 and remember vividly the Moonies. All of Steve's observations, comments, and yes Jonathan, his optimism were wonderful to hear. During the closing I do not think that Jonathan was so much disagreeing with Steve as finding it difficult to be optimistic. What he was saying about algorithms needing to be transparent makes perfect sense. The problem is that all of those sorts of things are controlled by people who want power, money and sex and so long as they make people billions of dollars, it will not change. And even if laws are enacted to oversee these things, technology is being created every day to find the loopholes to that oversight. I'm completely with Mayim that sometimes it just makes sense to walk away (I mean really, I have no idea how people have time for Facebook, Twitter, Instagram). I think the issue remains, whether you side with Jonathan, Mayim or both, is how do we do this as a country? Sadly, I am not optimistic.

[@gigianda587]

Fight? That wasn’t a fight. That was a great demonstration of how 2 people can have different opinions and communicate opposing views in a respectful way! Jonathan, you really make an interesting point on controlling the algorithm. But I have to agree with Mayim on this one...it’s up to the user to recognize and avoid the rabbit hole of technology. Use it, but don’t let it own you. Excellent episode. LOVE THE SERIES! 👌🤓

[@nmd33]

I was searching for a documentary on cult deprogramming, so I click on this & I see... Amy?! 😍❤️🥰

[@AshaGlenn]

Thank you. It's so crazy how time away from the cult is so important. I got clarity and left my cult during the pandemic because we couldn't meet all the time anymore.