Separating Art From the Artist

[@rac1equalsbestgame853]

It is painful but sometimes, when you learn about the alegations AFTER you come to love a product just hurts like hell

[@rossjohnstone4689]

Amen to that bro

[@Caffiend-Cat]

True enough, painful already on it's own I actually had this happen too myself for a second time (won't say the names for either artists), SO not only did I get to feel it again but I even had a moment were I went at myself for not noticing any signs.

[@rac1equalsbestgame853]

@@Caffiend-Cat Especially since I live under a rock and rarely look for info, if I not come across them that kind of kind of info before I come to like the stuff... that happens often to me...

[@matthius0908]

*cough* Kwite *cough*

[@rac1equalsbestgame853]

@@matthius0908 That HURT

[@Shadowstar_Art]

I tend to see it as Separation of art from the artist only works when the artist is dead, take H.P. Lovecraft for example. Seeing as otherwise the artists still profits from the art they create thus negating the point of not supporting them

[@ragnarok160]

Yea, furries canceling j.k when games like bloodbourne are heavily inspired by lovecraft

[@Shadowstar_Art]

@@ragnarok160 Inspired not created, Lovecraft is also dead which allows for the separation of art from the artist

[@therealSunTzu]

​@@ragnarok160 remember. Howard is dead, he can't get any royalties for something based on his works. Jk is still alive, she can take royalties when a game is based on harry potter. That's why people are upset at her and not nigcat man

[@gusty7153]

theres also where the artist loses control over their work through relinquishing copyright to some corporation or other entity

[@gusty7153]

@@Shadowstar_Art i know. just saying that this is also a thing that sometimes happens

[@suly5836]

The worst thing about Hyena's rant... is that he was right, in every single word that he said, it happened, sonic.exe has revived and it's more alive than ever, more fanart, more fangames, more everything, but he is in no power to celebrate, and his own creation has been taken away from him, truly a deserving fate for such a hideous individual.

[@Piss_Off_Plz]

It would've been better if he was arrested though.

[@gerragotheallidile]

If it makes anyone feel any better: In the end though, we still stole the last laugh from him because he was effectively booted off the internet after he was caught grooming a minor. (It would've been better if he was arrested though...) Also, people eventually and inevitably realized just how awful JC the Hyena is as a person (Even before he groomed a child), as well as how terrible the original Sonic.EXE story is, so they decided to take it and reimagine/reinvent it, and it worked. (Take a look at Needlem0use for example. Probably one of the best rewrites of Sonic.EXE I've seen in a long time, honestly.) So yeah, he still lost in the end. (His childish temper tantrum was hilarious though, ngl.) Also, most people outside of sites like Kiwi Farms don't even know who JC the Hyena is in the first place. So while JC's creation may never die, he himself will inevitably be all but forgotten... It's only a matter of time...

[@cherrypopscile3385]

It is shocking that Sonic exe would survive after JC. Because it sucked. Hard.

[@Ballslover18]

I'm surprised it lasted this long to begin with. I've read the creepypastas a kid and even I wised up to the fact that it sucked lmao.

[@LilacMonarch]

I guess it's one of those "so bad it's good" cases? It's hard for me to say since I'm generally not really a fan of horror, so the ones I like most end up usually being the poorly made ones just to have fun laughing at them

[@CertifiedWeirdass]

At least Sonic.exe evolved into it's own thing. Like, it's hella popular despite the source material being absolute dogwater and the creator being problematic.

[@brunettebi4111]

Worse things have been revived

[@Piss_Off_Plz]

Knowing how Sonic fans are, I'm not surprised (This is the same fandom that actively defends utter garbage like Sonic '06 and Sonic Boom. Sonic fans have no taste in storytelling.). Sonic fans are a stubborn, fickle, and feeble bunch, aren't they?

[@eskeline]

Im not a furry (yet :]) but furry drama and shit like that is enthralling, for some reason furry drama seems to be so much more... derailed?? i dunno how too put it but like normal drama is like ok (y'know the kwite stuff that happened recently) but furry drama? there is always SOMETHING so damn hilarious like normal drama you don't get "i just wanted furry pins" being the whole reason why they do everything

[@Piss_Off_Plz]

"Unhinged" is the word you're looking for.

[@vultusalbus4216]

I don’t know what to say about my position in the Fandom. I don’t know if I ever was part of it or if I ever left it. The Fandom is tiring me. It is no longer interesting and it makes me feel freaking d£pressed. I can’t even draw let alone have my own fursuit. Even if I had one I would probably be less talkative in it than most fursuiters

[@Ballslover18]

lmao I just learned about what happened to Fiddeafox the other day. Funny coincidence lol. Back to the topic at hand I feel like separating the art from the artist has a limit. I can separate John K from Ren and stimpy because he wasn't integral to. He himself admits that he wasn't the only person that made R&S the series that was. On the flip side I can't really separate JK Rowling from Harry Potter because she's intrinsically linked to the brand. She made it her name is plastered all over the series and most of money made by Harry Potter goes to her.

[@ambmamb8370]

cringe- you typed this on a computer containing slave labor while talking about moral consumption in full hypocrisy

[@Ballslover18]

@@ambmamb8370 I need a computer to apply for jobs, talk to friends and family online and a whole bunch of other things that elude me at the moment. Without a computer my life is a lot harder. I can go without Harry Potter and Ren and Stimpy lmfao.

[@ambmamb8370]

@@Ballslover18 shut the fuck up, you can go without a computer youre just too lazy youre complicit in slavery, and you could decide not to, you lazy fuck

[@Ballslover18]

@@ambmamb8370 In today's society? Tough luck lol. Almost everything is done online now. You literally can't live without some access to the internet in today's society and if you are you're actively handicapping youself.

[@ambmamb8370]

@@Ballslover18 youre part of the worldwide problem and you dont even notice it because youre a spoiled first world person- you complain about mildly bad to awful shit to get a moral rise out of it while the rest of the world bleeds for your consumerism day and night- you are the problem

[@DonutToast]

The thing is, It seems incredibly hard to enjoy ANY art/media these days without the artist/creator having done something horrible. From big media franchises to smaller individual artists. So for me personally it's become a question of whether or not consuming said art supports the artist/creator. with most individual artists that's a yes since those likes and shares are tied to their account, but with franchises you can like, illegally download stuff/watch stuff and not support the creator👾 And then we also have the fact the creator of those franchises put their own views in it, and to that I say you can still enjoy media while acknowledging the messed up bits as being messed up. Like in old movies. This is not like... a new discussion or anything. I mean, look at what Michael Jackson left behind. He made killer music, but he was hella weird with kids (allegedly). You can still like his music

[@SarsTheSecond]

Walt Disney was anti semite, BMW and Daimler made nazi war machines same as Japanese companies. Ford was big fan of Hitler, ect.

[@foxbuns]

it isnt a question, consuming that media DOES support that creator. every view, like, share is incorporated into the algorithm and your interactions push it out to more people.

[@lostgarbage4055]

Maybe the problem is that a slightly misaligned worldview from yours is not a "horrible terrible awful distasteful" thing to cancel somebody over? Maybe because not all accusations are true, and hiring someone to fake discord DM's is as easy as baking a pie? Maybe we should raise the bar for something cancel worthy just a tiny bit, so that f3tis-alt doesn't qualify?

[@foxbuns]

@@lostgarbage4055 that's a weird philosphy. yes, sometimes things are fake or not true, but that doesnt mean that in every instance it's "always not true". its better to err on the side of caution and believe the victim at first, to do research to verify the claims. 2 things can be true at once - some people do fake things but some allegations are real. that's why people develop this skill we call "critical thinking" you should try it sometime.

[@lostgarbage4055]

@@foxbuns "Innocent until proven guilty". A concept that people seem to have learned to brush off in favor of the much more simple "guilty until proven innocent".

[@abzollozdol251]

The other question I find myself often asking after the release of a certain game is "can I separate the consumer from the company?"Should people be raked over the coals for buying a fursuit or game? When the brain wants something, it will often make irrational decisions to get that sweet dopamine rush. Furthermore many people aren't terminally online and aren't even aware of any controversies to begin with. In the end, I think it is guilt by association to attack someone over something that they bought or liked, or retweeted. But that won't stop people.

[@TwinkleTwinkleTruly]

The difference would be if people are aware but decide to buy something still, while knowing that it will give money to someone with “questionable” opinions. I’ve seen way too many people go “well, I like this thing, and even though I know the creator is going to use the money I give them to cause harm, I don’t care, because everyone else is doing it, so I’m doing it!” The difference is, if a person knows of the actions and opinions of the creator, but excuses it with “nostalgia” or the likes, the person cannot deny that they put their own entertainment over the comforts and even rights of others.

[@dr00g35]

hogwarts legacy

[@ambmamb8370]

@@TwinkleTwinkleTruly "questionable opinions" n**ger you buy shit thats inherently immoral, from computer chips to coffee- unless you live off grid- gtfo with that first world problems shit, moral consumption my ass

[@TwinkleTwinkleTruly]

@@ambmamb8370 so if a person is openly doing something abhorrent, we should just shrug it off and still give them money? You do see how that’s not a good thing, right?

[@ambmamb8370]

@@TwinkleTwinkleTruly youre a bleeding hypocrit- youre complicit in slavery and you probably complain about people with different opinions, you should pay for the harm youve caused already

[@gilbertozo]

I liked Fiddleafox's work when I had a Twitter account. I always commented and liked her work and even did a piece of fanart on her birthday. She still is a huge influence on the drawings I do. When I heard about the drama, I was quick to defend her not because I sympathized with her actions, but because I admired the art and it made me happy to log on. After a while, I deleted my Twitter(a week before Elon Musk announced his plans to acquire Twitter) and I moved on. But then I saw this and thought about it a little. Why do I hate Kanye West for being a Nazi, yet support problematic artists like Crystal Castles, MSI, Sewerslvt, and others? Well, of course, I admired these artists before I found out about their wrongdoings. But simply, I don't have a connection to art only for who they are as people, but how I relate to them. I recognise their faults, but for me, their art still connects with me. I shouldn't go like I did two years ago and go defend them, but I should be able to explain why I like a problematic artist while recognising that they are problematic instead of trying to deny or defend their actions. The one time I did leave a problematic artist behind was with the Orion Experience, as my tastes have changed and I am not in high school anymore. I shouldn't separate the art from the artist. I should enjoy the art while knowing the artist is a human like I am. If their actions make me truly uncomfortable, that is when I leave them behind. I haven't experienced that, and I truly hope that I don't.... Edit:....You ever look back at a comment you did, and think of just how naive you were? Yeah, I found that Justin Sane is a total snake.

[@quilt4115]

well said

[@Piss_Off_Plz]

The Art community is a horribly toxic wasteland.

[@vultusalbus4216]

Furries are to the fandom what politicians are to politics. Sometimes we admire them and trust them too much until they are exposed for wrongdoings. Just like people who supported Kero before they found out he did actual dogs. Kero is not at all like Sappho though. Most people never supported Sappho to begin with, whereas some were supportive of Kero after Shane’s video. The reason is people discovered Sappho through her “coming out as a zoo” video. As for racist, h0m0phobic, m1sogynist and tr4nsphobic furries, I find it ironic since furries are supposed to welcome minorities with open arms. I’d refer to them as “Fake Furries”, just like I’d refer to those only interested in the s£xual aspect of the Fandom as “Not True Furries”. I thought I was a Furry until recently. Now I am just a witness to whatever happens in the Fandom

[@gilbertozo]

@vultusalbus4216 I don't know about Kero and Sappho, but I wouldn't compare it to politics, especially in regards to Trump. He has been exposed several times, yet people still support him. I find that this is kind of the case with a lot of subcultures, where it becomes commodified, and it's easier from problematic people to ruin it for everybody(e.g., Gavin McInnes, founder of the Proud Boys, made a video about the history of punk despite being a fascist hipster with a far-right audience). The openness of furries is a case where it has hurt them quite hard, and with the bill in Oklahoma, you really can't fight back against the bill without having to address a lot of the problematic elements of furries that internet users will bring up. I do agree that those who are in it for sexual activities or to feel superior to others shouldn't be considered furries despite the term's broad usage to mean anything or anyone involved with anthropomorhic animals.

[@Cat10769]

Finally a lago video to satiate my ever growing dread

[@ThatguycalledJoe]

Point of advice - If you run any sort of online business, it is in your best to be a complete John Doe. No public image. No fan interaction. Nothing. Just shut up and do your job, and if you do have a social side it should be completely divorced from your business.

[@Draconic_Aura]

besides from professionally curated ads

[@abuttnugget6753]

The ol' Yahtzee Croshaw method; never fails.

[@Just_a_commenter]

Divorcing the content from the creator can be difficult, but I've found that it's dependent on the transgression committed, along with just how much I valued the content. The Rick and Morty side of things has just pushed me away from the property, but I never really had a strong fondness of it to begin with. That said, holy heck, is it seriously so hard for people not to do bad stuff with minors? Answer: *It. Isn't. Stop it FFS.* :l

[@Piss_Off_Plz]

Predators are literally everywhere, but you just don't know where they are because they look like normal people.

[@BonseyJonsey]

Unless the artist is 6 feet under or doesn't make a cent off their work, you can't separate them

[@nqk_0662]

Steal it !

[@salty_fish8762]

Just steal it lmao

[@nqk_0662]

@@salty_fish8762 YEAH LIKE WHAT ARE THEY GOING TO DO ? Talk back ?

[@Gordonepicman]

​@@nqk_0662bro gonna be cursed by the artist demon king 😢

[@nqk_0662]

@@Gordonepicman see if I care . I’m about to a anime mc/mahwa move and do stuff to tnem as well .

[@PanRokador]

13:06 "Do not Pyrocynical me" I wheezed

[@pristinepastel]

This is one of the best explanations for art vs artist separation I’ve seen, so thank you! When it comes to major mainstream art with extremely controversial artists; While I may not go out of my way to interact with or distance myself from/villainize people who choose to support that art financially, I do kind of keep an eye on what else they do/what else they’re supporting or saying just in case. Sometimes someone just doesn’t know or is trying to separate art from artist, but others are actually very supportive of the artists views directly. So i try to keep my eyes open so I don’t get bamboozled by the latter, ykno?

[@crypt8355]

It bothers me that noone really understands what separate art from the artist was so you could criticize the art MORE. The idea of it was to forget if the artist did good things so you can only focus on the contents of the story or work without a bias you would have had for the creator.

[@crypt8355]

Sorry if that came out weird I'm not good at typing my thoughts out.

[@Duhgel]

This

[@infectedanimal9830]

Guess it can go both ways, the way discussed in the vid is more how the general population goes about it in a “should I support this thing” while yours is more in a analytical manner ment for study and what people can learn from something Both are useful but it usually depends on the context

[@spinosaurusstriker]

This argument doesn’t dismiss the way this video is using it.

[@rattlinbones1508]

Bold move labeling sonic.exe as """art"""

[@LagoVirt]

but the blood was so hyper-realistic looking..,

[@ByteBoiToastin]

Ayy Benji got a sponsor! You deserve that sponsor money thanks to the nice vibe and editing in your videos, love to see the channel grow!

[@galacticalove]

The only downside is that its Raid. But yes, glad he got a sponsor at least!

[@pink_alligator]

It depends mainly on how much of themselves the artist places in their work, like with art it's quite difficult while illustrations are easier. Music or songs for is pretty difficult as unless it's brain-dead pop people tend to put a lot of themselves into their music. Literature, however (fiction specifically) is external making it quite simple to separate

[@mr.j3rs3y]

The stills you use are super cute!

[@morgank520]

Wish I could say it didn’t, but it honestly hurt my soul when I found out about the crap with DHC. I may have been a long way off from getting a suit, college being an expensive priority and all, but I’d fully intended to save up to commission them when I could. Out of spite I’ve now learned how to make suits myself, but it still makes me sad every time I learn things like this about creators I admire.

[@TheOther19]

3:02 *shudders at word Love Quest* Damn haven't heard that word since Chris Chan.

[@JimiHomeless28]

She was right.

[@Dexechii]

love your content!! thank you for bringing these issues up!

[@FrydChikn420]

[@Myskitti]

GOD this hits hard, DHC was one of my main inspirations for making fursuits (i even saw lucky in suit at MFF once while i was out of suit and ran up to her and expressed that she was a huge inspiration for my own fursuit making and showed her some of my work and she said they looked awesome and to keep it up because she can tell ill be great one day and gave me a big ol hug! I was an adult at the time but i DO have babyface real bad and i dont know how to explain how weird and offputting the hug felt to me, but thats metaphysical spiritual stuff that not everyone believes in so make of that what you will) and when the news dropped so did my heart and the offputting vibe i got from her in person suddenly made sense

[@MichaelRacer]

There are times where the art can be separated from the artist. Other times, the line begins to blur. Believe me because there's a lot of artists I was forced to block. Zaush wasn't the first artist that I blocked, and he sure as hell wasn't the last one 🚫

[@Piss_Off_Plz]

Simply put it, unless the artist is dead or retired, you just CAN'T separate art from the artist because they directly benefit from your support.

[@andrewshotathompson5116]

@@Piss_Off_Plz pirate the shit

[@kestrelius5583]

10:43 the others i could *kinda* see as jokes on very thin ice but holy shit that hit like a bullet train damn xd.

[@panicclinic]

I already shamelessly pirate music I listen for years to due to be being poor, so my playlist has been ever growing. So I don't feel bad whenever a musician turns out to be a terrible person because I never gave them any form of monetization. Plus I never really share my playlist with people since it's a mess, I can also share information about the musician being a shit person if any of my friends find and show interest in them, giving them the choice to pirate instead too if they still want to listen to the music.

[@purgxzur1]

12:09 you can still open dms on discord after someone has unadded or even blocksd you on discord OR even close the DMs. either she's lying or has no clue how it works. the only way it's impossible to get dms again is if they delete their account and then you close the DMs which i don't think was the case

[@Bellfeasto]

Honestly I've had a lot of people yell at me to unfollow a ton of artists but im following 3k people and can't be asked i don't check Twitter enough too know everything that's going on

[@StonerWaifu]

"How dare you follow my sworn enemy!" "I can't keep track of all your sworn enemies!"

[@brimstonesulfur5013]

22:11 if he did he would only be welcome in the Furry Raiders

[@Blitzkrieg_Wolf]

I nearly fell out of my chair when the sponsorship rolled, You've done it! You're in the big leagues!

[@cielopachirisu929]

I really miss FiddleAFox :c Look I know man, what she did was not good, I'm not saying it was excusable. But I miss her in the same way I miss Cryaotic, I *wish* they didn't do these things because I loved their work.

[@FeatherMelody]

always a relief when one of these videos doesn't feature someone whose art i like

[@kmemz]

Nowadays, so many things are considered offensive, that you have little choice but to separate the art from the artists, lest you start foaming at the mouth because you get peeved at every little thing, yet enjoy nothing. Sure, there is a reasonable limit, but because your favorite artist is found out to have said something that comes off as mildly somethingist without context, for that matter even if it's not improved by the context, it doesn't mean you should stop enjoying their work. Call them out for it if you really feel the need, perhaps end your Patreon or KoFi subscription to them if you have one, but don't take it too far, simply saying and showing that you can't support their work should make your message loud and clear, threats and continued aggression will not help, as has been shown time and time again on the internet.

[@DEUS_VULT_INFIDEL]

The only trouble I have separating art from artist is when they're actively doing something really bad. If they're long-dead, or that bad thing is something as shallow as just having dogwater opinions (which everybody in some way does, myself included), it's as easy as a breeze. If they're getting questionable with minors, it's rope o'clock.

[@ADULTS_ONLY_AllExistenceItself]

That's why I make my characters Public Domain.

[@Torterix]

i think you completely can especially when they dont gain anything financial. after all, art is what the viewer makes of it. its close minded to refuse to consume anything made by bad people in my opinion but i understand if people cannot get the thought of the bad things theyve done out of their head. honestly i dont find myself thinking about those things while i look at art and when i do i dont really care cuz its not like me enjoying their art will cause more bad shit to happen.

[@SebastianSeanCrow]

9:12 I can’t help but think of that line from a tv show that’s used all the time on TikTok for certain things “I can excuse racism but i draw the line at animal cruelty” “You can excuse racism?!”

[@bluelycanroc.]

12:57 LOOK GARY THERE I AM

[@FrydChikn420]

I didn't know HatsuneMiku made minecraft. So happy to have learned this valuable information.

[@kellyshea92]

I cant do it. One of my favorite artists was GlowFox because I love traditional drawn art and how well he pulls off the cartoony look. But after the zoosadism leaks of 2018, I just couldnt anymore.

[@RyanBlueblaz]

I can separate the art from the artist, humans will likely do bad things eventually, and with how things are nowadays and how many people being cancelled recently at an unusual rate, if we don't separate them then we just won't be able to enjoy anything, not separating the art from the artist is not really worth it =/ and just because someone likes it it does not mean that they support what they did or "did"

[@CertifiedWeirdass]

Yeah, can agree. As long as someone makes it clear they don't support the "problematic person" however, then... yeah.

[@syep12]

to me it depends on how much you support the artist like 1 view on a yt video is not gonna make the artist rich

[@TwinkleTwinkleTruly]

*cough* She-Who-Shall-Not-Be-Named *cough*

[@LeifsLittleLuxuryHell]

please tell me its not who I think it is

[@TwinkleTwinkleTruly]

@@LeifsLittleLuxuryHell depends who you think it is. If she’s anti-trans and is okay with her IP being used to make antisemitic content and earn money from it, it’s likely her.

[@LeifsLittleLuxuryHell]

@@TwinkleTwinkleTruly oh I had a completely different person in mind than her whos far worse lol

[@TwinkleTwinkleTruly]

@@LeifsLittleLuxuryHell something worse than antisemitism, transphobia and hanging out with people who’re one step from fascism?

[@LeifsLittleLuxuryHell]

@@TwinkleTwinkleTruly ok trigger warning for necrophilia, all the stuff u talked about, nazis, racism: Emily youcis was a newgrounds creator who made a thing called alfreds playhouse. Im not gonna go into detail about it because its horribly fucked up, but all u gotta know is that the dog fucked corpses and ascended thanks to trump in the finale. Emily is a neo nazi.

[@Keys6236]

I don't separate art from the artists

[@amtrakfan9125]

based

[@fascistwhiterunguard7919]

Good

[@marinosnyhe6538]

@@fascistwhiterunguard7919 Bad

[@ryproar11]

Many MANY things we use is filled with controversy. Mercedes-Benz openly supported the 3rd reich. Same as BMW. Some of our medical knowledge cane from literal human experimentation and death. Micheal Jackson... Yeah dont need to say anything there. You get the point. Sadly it is not just artists... It is EVERYTHING. (I am a mechanic and run 2 shops. 5 of my suppliers were implicated legal issues involving sexual abuse.) Unfortunately i need to use them because if i cut them off i would go out of business because they are the only 5 in my state. Lol😅

[@trostlf2699]

12:59 hardstylefox: „based“ 😂

[@DustyTheKitty]

I think the latest example I've experienced of this was a music artist known as Fleetwire, whom did a lot of music in the Madness Combat community, I've even used their music in a few streams, I still love the tunes but I'd never support them, feels easier to do as they've scrubbed themselves off the Internet.

[@DudeTheMighty]

This is going to make some people angry, but I'm fairly strict with how I handle this. Unless my "support" would be assisting in a criminal act, the artist's bad behavior is their problem, not mine.

[@sikufox]

Glad to see Ray D. Shadolegend was willing to sponsor the video

[@WorldinRooView]

And situations Iike Sonic.exe is why I can't bIame Nintendo being so adamant in protecting their IP from fan projects.

[@foxbuns]

when you have already purchased something from a shitty person, its okay to still enjoy what youve paid for after you learn they are shitty. however, when someone is shitty and you like, follow, comment, etc you are pushing them up in the algorithm and giving them more of an audience who (even if you wont) will spend money on them.

[@based980]

fiddle my beloved

[@NoisyBones]

I try to take these things case by case, usually by looking at how many innocent people were involved in the process and exactly how much me engaging with the art benefits the person I have issue with. For example: I would never patronize DHC because I know that every penny I give is going in to Lucky’s pocket and I do not want to fund her and her sickening lifestyle. I am also a fan of WWE and while I get the shows free thanks to my ISP I do occasionally buy a shirt of my favorite characters. Even though I absolutely hate what Vince has done in the past and how he treated women and how he forced steroids on his performers I feel ok buying the shirts since the money I spend will be mostly going to designers, factory workers and other employees and not Vince McMahon himself. Some people may take issue with my stance but it makes sense to me.

[@jackznn]

this is the first video of yours ive seen but i just wanna say i find your voice very soothing

[@RoseOfEnigma]

I know separating art from the artist is a thing but R. Kelly wrote songs about underage girls and didn't keep it a secret what he was doing behind the scenes.

[@usov656]

The whole thing of people not separating someone's achievements , like art, from the person itself, is an phenomenon that was often used in politics to disparage your political opponents with bad faith, and that got popular through the general population through cancel culture. But anyone with half a brain knows that liking something x made doesnt automatically make you a follower of x. We cab apreciate the aztecs for the incredible structures they left behind and the discovery of chocolate, but that doesnt mean we enjoy human sacrifice. You can apreciate wagner's brilliant operas while disagreeing with his views on society, you can enjoy lovecrafr work while not sharing his opinion on african americans, etc.

[@Blanch590]

For me, specifically with music, when an artist is outed for something deplorable, their music becomes associated with that horrible thing for me. Like most of the time I simply can’t listen to it anymore because all I can think about is what they did because their name is tied to it. Really sucks and it’s ruined some really good music for me. I simply cant separate It.

[@SebastianSeanCrow]

2:17 what’s fucking hilarious is the ad on this video was for raid

[@shinysmeargle2037]

I knew about JC and his absolute meltdown over the Creepypasta since that happened when I was still new to the Creepypasta fandom. I didn’t know about the creeping on children thing though. That was news to me.

[@sashimicheetah]

Regardless of allegation; If you have to go through 3 different levels of outrage you probably need to start some sort of introspection. Being outraged at the fursuit maker, sure. But once you start getting outraged about the APP that a developer worked on. It's just a little absurd.

[@syep12]

i agree

[@twotailedfox3349]

I was obsessed with sonic.exe after i saw pewdiepie's video on it about 10 years ago (got back into it after the fnf mod lol), it led to me becoming a sonic fan and eventually even a furry. I never read it (until recently, but i might have heard it in some vids) so i had no idea who JC was until some time after the stuff happened, it didn't really effect me too much because i had never heard from him but it definitely saddened me a bit because it used to be such a big thing for me. Now with the new owner there's quite a few things i'm not a fan of in terms of how the whole .exe stuff is handled and my favorite form will always be based on the original fan game (design wise atleast) but i keep it separated from JC and only associate it with good memories from my childhood. as for fiddle, i've only seen and saved one gif of her character and i had no clue who she was. Saddens me to see there's controversy around her because i really liked the art style.... i hope she gets the help she needs.

[@LucasRCD]

So uh didn't Fiddleafox talk about how she was manipulated and blackmailed into saying horrible things from someone she trusted and was in very real risk of being doxxed by them otherwise?

[@SpaceySodaPop]

Do you have a source for this? (Not trying to be snarky, I’m just genuinely curious)

[@SpaceySodaPop]

Also it confuses me on why she wouldn’t state that + show proof for that right away after the screenshots got leaked instead of saying these at 11:26 & 11:32 Like she literally admitted to being racist & a transmisogynist so I find what you’re saying hard to believe. Even with the risk of being doxxed & her being manipulated, at this point, wouldn’t sharing the full context help her case more than letting her own image be smeared. Edit (for the millionth time lol): So she couldn’t show proof of anything since the Inebrias unadded her but still that’s a weird response what ur saying is supposed to be believed.

[@50catsinatrenchcoat]

as a random person on the internet, it comes to a point where i kinda only look at art as art and not something that comes from an artist, simply because theres too much shit going on all over the internet and with my own life that i simply want to enjoy the games and media i love without worrying about whatever bullshit the creator did. obviously when shitty people are shitty i wont send money their way, but if its something that i can simply look at or enjoy without paying the creator, like an art post or a free game, im just going to enjoy the game or art no matter how shitty the person is. it sucks but i dont have the mental capacity to care about whatever the artist does in their free time. call me shitty or whatever but i just dont want to worry about it, ya know? easier on my mind to not care about that kinda thing.

[@progskep]

Would have respected Fiddle if she had just stuck to her guns and not tried to justify all the shit she said lol

[@averiWonBTW]

'sisa BWC fox

[@oneandonlysound99]

I truly think it is very possible to seperate the art from the artist, but there are so many factors that go into it. Like I can look at an artist's work and enjoy it far better if it's from someone whose been gone for like 5+years (or 10 in some cases) and didn't really do anything as deplorable as what most seemed to get outed for. However I can NEVER, ever support attacking someone who buys a suit from someone out right non-stop from a admittingly pretty-daming document but not really much else to go off. II am glad I know about DHC but I actually was still unaware it was "that bad" until the recent jab at the barq creator. I thought it was a bit wierd at first, and also like sometimes it can take a long time for a suit to get done. I think not stating when they got it or simply one post claiming being unaware or innocent was about as much "damage control" one could do. I wouldn't willingly pay a creator like that, but I also wouldn't ever be tossing a $2,000+ suit out not being fully aware over a damaged brand name. I think it's always going to be a mixed bag, mainly think people need to get off each other's backs about it really (like if you hate DHC so much that they still exist and feel the need to be vocal than go bother them instead of a stranger if anything).

[@woofnuggiez]

I personally think you should still be able to like something, despite the person behind it. You aren't liking the person itself. Though, it can hurt knowing the creator behind something you love turned out to be a horrible person.

[@mako3951]

Enjoying their work is one thing. Using your money and public support to fuel their lifestyle is wrong though

[@SebastianSeanCrow]

7:51 imma tell you right now I 100% forgot about these allegations but I do recall hearing about them not too long after they came to light I barely even remember who DHC is tbh and I stg they were one of the first makers I followed I remember more about the Christian girl on TikTok who made fursuit heads out of raptor masks whose videos I haven’t seen in 4 years lol

[@regeneration7476]

Now I know this clicking sound during your speech. I imagined it to be piercings

[@regeneration7476]

Plus moratur quam pecuniam

[@OpoOnTheGo]

"The chances of kanye becoming a furry are miraculously low..." you clearly forgot about the time he wouldn't let kid Cudi change his fursona species bc he already commissioned art lol

[@_Stercore]

12:48 lmao, popeyes hierarchy

[@JasonBladeReviews]

Omg I'm on a Lago Virt video :O Great work as always!

[@ragnarok160]

Never trust the intentions of anyone that refers to people as "problematic"

[@HOWEZY4769]

Separating art from the artist to me is impossible because in doing so the artist never gets punished. Literally. Their "punishment" for being a horrible scumbag is having people continue to give them money or clout. Fuck that

[@MothFable]

I think as long as the shit the person in question did doesn’t show in their work then it’s fine to enjoy it.

[@BevvRatBites]

I'm always capable of such things in my own personal dealings. A lot of people hate me and all I stand for, this includes many popular peoples who don't want to put up with my nonsense and exclude me from their spaces. Doesn't mean their output isn't badass tho. Maybe I'm just weird though. I could remain cordial with absolutely anyone no matter how heinous they are.

[@luizricardo4165]

It's hard to separate art from the artist You can look at a creep and say like "oh this guy is a creep I'll not follow him anymore" But then you look at the art and think "damn but vergence is really hot though"

[@DrMecha]

Recently, there's a long running Undertale mod project under the threat of cancelation due to the arrestment of their lead developer. While said developer is a fairly young adult, the contraband that they're arrested for clue the team in on the concerning mental illness that could threaten to provoke harm to others, should it not been treated. Though the team was quick to kick them out of the project, it became an issue of what to do with the contributions to it as it could lead to a public backlash concerning the mental status of their founder. Although it's not strictly a furry project, I think it proves to be yet another example of the dilemma of separating the art from the artist.

[@Pocket_of_Explosives]

The fiddlefox part made me laugh ngl

[@mintgaming9198]

I personally think being unable to separate an artist from their art is a flaw in one's perception.

[@NotRemmyCormo]

Maybe my memory is just messing with me, but I feel like JCHyena was actually on my very first Fur Affinity profile (now deleted but I have other accounts), saying something like "Thanks for the fave and welcome to FA!" in my shouts even though I don't remember favoriting any images from his gallery. This may be useless information but it feels so bizarre making such an odd discovery about some stranger I barely even knew. Maybe this is just some other person, it's been a while so I don’t remember, all I know is that the purple hexagonal profile picture and the theme of hyenas feels so incredibly familiar. Never knew the author of Sonic.EXE was a furry btw. Edit: I think it was 2019. I just turned 18 days before making the account.

[@FoxyPercival714]

I know there is a meme somewhere with your phrase. It is hard to separate the art from the artist.

[@spahghettiboi4150]

0:19 OOOOOOOF

[@LOON3Y2OONS]

As I said to my sons mother about Michael Jackson. I will teach my boy how to zombie dance but I’d never let him go to neverland. 😂

[@gerragotheallidile]

If it makes anyone feel any better: In the end though, we still stole the last laugh from JC because he was effectively booted off the internet after he was caught grooming a minor. (It would've been better if the douchenozzle was arrested though...) Also, people eventually and inevitably realized just how awful JC the Hyena is as a person (Even before he groomed a child), as well as how terrible the original Sonic.EXE story is, so they decided to take it and reimagine/reinvent it, and it worked. (Take a look at Needlem0use for example. Probably one of the best rewrites of Sonic.EXE I've seen in a long time, honestly.) So yeah, he still lost in the end. (His childish temper tantrum was hilarious though, ngl.) Also, most people outside of sites like Kiwi Farms don't even know who JC the Hyena is in the first place. So while JC's creation may never die, he himself will inevitably be all but forgotten... It's only a matter of time...

[@Mrblackfox966]

I followed fiddle and I didn’t know what happened to them i really liked there art

[@Bluemule2090]

16:44 VOCALOID MINE CRAFT "seka-"

[@limbothebiggay1709]

"Morbidly sus" I can't escape my generation, help me

[@kaleeshsynth9994]

Sonic the exe character being taken away from the creep is pretty cool

[@akpuppy7]

BABE WAKEUP NEW LAGOVIRT VIDEO JUST DROPPED

[@tinybubbo1011]

What you doing when you find out the Mona Lisa was made by EDP445?

[@stephaniecarlson1068]

Yup, I have had a ton of KZbinrs like that. But I still watch them after I get done being angry unless it's something super bad.

[@dearestlouve]

I'm not ignoring what you said about Fiddle, it's just that others have already expressed enough about her, but it kind of boggles me how people can just befriend others online and tell them everything. I would not have a single online "friend" even if I were an artist who only had 50 followers, I don't understand people who have over 80k yet still have online friends. one fallout and it all ends in disaster lmao

[@kaiyotee2475]

I had a difficult scenario recently i guess... The band that really pulled me out of my darkest spot and helped save me, along with my friends and family's support, of course, from considering taking my own life a few years ago apparently did some fucked up shit about 10-15 years ago and I'm expected to drop my only form of therapy. So, yeah, financial backing is one thing but I can and feel like i should sleep soundly at night. But, others may disagree.

[@slacxthemad9683]

Glad to see it's up now! Damn

[@kaiyodei]

"you just can't touch a sheep's wool" .

[@foxbuns]

i think this is a relevant debate because of the new HP game. people don't like Rowling for her TERF rhetoric, which is good and a normal response to transphobia. however, Rowling wasnt the one who made this game or its creative decisions; in fact she is so far removed from her own works now that you could basically say she isn't involved anymore. does she make residuals when some of her IP is used? sure. but there's a whole team of people that thought of and created that game, and those folks probably aren't bad people. still liking and supporting the HP universe doesnt make you a transphobe, nor does it make you a bad person. the HP universe has evolved past the need for JK and has flourished without her. i'd say that's one of the rare instances it would be okay to separate the "artist" from the art -- because the artist is hardly even involved any longer and she'll get checks whether the game does well or not.

[@Crystalkitzoku]

And funny thing, i know lots of trans and lgbtq people who really like HP!!

[@foxbuns]

@@Crystalkitzoku exactly! but people are attacking anyone who even dare to express an interest purely based on the link to JK and its ridiculous.

[@Crystalkitzoku]

@@foxbuns like, hear me out I have the whole HP book series laying in my book self Do I like JK? Hell no. Do i defend her actions? Ew no, but I used to like the book series a lot, alongside many friends of mine, including a friend of mine who's trans/non binary. Hell, they like the series even more than me, he has so many HP merch aswell

[@foxbuns]

@@Crystalkitzoku thats my point! The series has evolved so far beyond jk. Its a franchise with writers, actors, directors, coders, artists etc. If it was still only jk publishing books and spouting terf rhetoric, then sure throw the whole series away ig. But at this point the series is as much owned and written by people who arent jk, than by jk. There may even be more media at this point that wasnt made by her than was. So its okay morally to separate the creator from the media by this point. We can celebrate that its become a wonderfully inclusive franchise and fandom, despite all of the bigotry jk spews.

[@Crystalkitzoku]

@@foxbuns hell yeah

[@lofiiowa]

Been waiting for this one

[@novira0151]

glad to see this video back