Seraphon vs Sons of Behemat Age of Sigmar Battle Report Ep 100

[@woolf552]

"Irony of dinosaurs calling down comets on me", Josh that comment made my day lol

[@redplymrunner]

Thunderlizard Command Ability lets you shoot Bastiladons and Engine of the Gods again, can't be used on normal Stegadons.

[@deadshotgaming5935]

Let’s gooo more sons of Behemat!!

[@chayimweinstock443]

I love the Sons of Behemat. I needed something outside of the Chaos Dwarves to want to play.

[@Michael-gs3lw]

SPOILERS WARNING and point of view Sure it's the best you did against Giants ^^" Random choice of traits and artefact. Shooting list with the first turn and no possibility to have a double turn against ? Well, that's useful. I understand that you don't like this mechanic but as you asked for reasonnable argument : - Battalion are here to help you lower your number of drops. Your list construction allows you to lower, or raise your drops. If you use that you know who has the possibility of a double turn as you can choose who goes first and so, especially who have the possibility to have one. That's a choice that you won due to your list construction. - When you play, you KNOW that there is a possibility to get a double in your face. So, you play around that. You make your list with one, or two lines of chaff unit to be taken care off. You stay outside of the first impact, or you have something sturdy enough to take blows during two turns. Case in point, a double turn T2 for the giant would have done what ? Everything was stuck in combat, unable to get what was important. Instead you just moved back and everything died anyway at the giants turn. Same result because your position was GREAT in case of a double turn. And if it happens, you now have the possibility yourself to get a double. (Admitly, the giants can't do much about that) In that case, for the behemoth player, he should not have take it because it was not interesting. Again, because you played well. It's supposed to be a moving/positionning game. Not a "Let me punch you in the face at full speed ahead". (Well, it also can be. Thats valid "popcorn, throw bucket of dice" stuff). - Last tactical point. When you win the roll-off. You choose what the opponent will do. And if you played a defensive first turn, well, you can make him waste his double and get one deadlier later. And if it's too dangerous ? Well you are the one that can go on the offensive. - This one is not a "rationnal one" as it a double edge. A double gave a possibility to crush a game, but also a comeback until the end. So you want to see what happens and try your luck a last time. (If not, you could conceide some games far faster). There are many games of 40k (without throwing stones) that I can safely jump to the end result after one or two turns. Even sometimes just watching the list. That said. About the double turn shooting/melee debate. (It's worst at shooting, or heavy magic armies imo) The issue is not so much on the double. It's on the lethality and mobility of new stuff. When you can move everywhere on the map, shoot anything with BM, and have enough good bataillons to be sure to know who is going first, well, double or not you will kill anything you want. Take an optimal tzeench list. Without double, well, no need to play. "Flamers behind wall of chaff -> Kill stuff -> opponent kill some of the chaff -> Flamers move back -> Another line of chaff summoned -> Kill stuff -> Opponent kill some of the chaff" Hope it's "reasonnable argument" in your book. With that said, I completly understand, especially for professional and filming stuff, a game over by turn 2 due to a double is a blow to your production. (And not a fun game). The best way would be to get "better" (absolutly no shade launched!) to take that into account. More defensive, Screening, taking into account projections. If not, you can still keep the mechanic by saying "Ok, this one is a game breaker, due to that placement, or too lethal, or whatever. I won't take this one as it's "won" and we want to play, let's keep going." But getting rid of it completly. Gosh, that's a sour taste. (I wouldn't mind if you were just random players, but you have a channel with a huge reach and... Well, it's not AOS anymore without that stuff.) Well anyway. Happy wargaming.

[@The_E_Paladin]

Yes! Thank you! You put it so much better than me. I agree with you.

[@voidwalker2305]

My two armies are Blades of Khorne and Legion of Azgorh (Chaos Dwarves). I've also been to a couple of Throne of Skulls at Warhammer World and played with a lot of people! I enjoy the double turn for both a very shooty and a very close combaty army and I think it's a good feature. I do think it makes the games (for a casual player like I!) more interesting. 40k for me always feels very stagnant with its back and forth turns. I don't mind getting double-turned. If a game is over quickly... Then we just rack up and play another game! If the game lasts a long time, then it's just as fun!

[@voidwalker2305]

Also, great game!

[@judjementine]

i think in this instance the game was more interesting without it. they still rolled off and just refused the double turn. if josh had taken that double turn the game would have just been over for steve, the warriors were cleared so the giants would have charged directly into all of his shooting and wiped it out before it could have done as much damage.

[@voidwalker2305]

I agree with the point and see how getting double-turned would perhaps have lead to the annihilation of steve's shooting (almost garunteed tbf). But if Steve had kept the shooting further back and out of the giant's (admittedly large) threat range, would the double turn have been so crushing? What if Steve had gone second and double-turned Josh's giants with shooting, reducing their effectiveness considerably as they went through the brackets.

[@tetres51]

You two are the guys that got me started watching mini war gaming!

[@HankGlamorous]

I loved calling out josh by going to the shelves lol!

[@phionnamoo7424]

Josh being so freaking nice to Steve with the double turn passing and the literal moving of terrain just so he can get in for a charge. Honestly what a great guy

[@mwgjosh5161]

Shhhhhhhh, I have a reputation to maintain

[@Lawlstunsthe1st]

@@mwgjosh5161 you are my favorite mini war gamer, you are the nicest dude

[@marcbeans3057]

Eh. Steve didn't return the favor. Besides, sometimes one just enjoys seeing a slaughter. As is, it cost him the game.

[@derekgehring2771]

Hats off to the Collin typo easter eggs. Its a fun game to play now! Liked the dino list, dont like not using the rules. Hats off to Josh just rolling his traits and relic on his Giants he is always chill af.

[@mwgjosh5161]

*Cullen*

[@lastnamefirstname6621]

@@mwgjosh5161 colon Jk lol

[@Spazzfist]

This was a great game! Josh really seems like my kind of player who is more about fun armies than min-maxing the fun out of the game!

[@davidjesion6084]

What company makes the alternate giant model Josh has?

[@masonmcphetridge9837]

I would like to know also. Seems the perfect scale.

[@williambryant6175]

Why don’t Sons have their own Turn graphic?

[@benn1181]

Because they haven't made one

[@The_E_Paladin]

Ok. I am in favor of the randomized battle turn. And here are my reasons: 1. It is a benefit and a hinderance to both shooting and close combat armies. It encourages players to diversify their lists and deploy conservatively to prevent a massive amount of shooting hits or a massive charge on the majority of their armies early in the game. 2. It reduces Mathhammer. Predictable turns encourages less risk taking and benefits shooting armies, since (with proper deployment) they know that they can’t normally get charged early. 3. Encourages aggressive play and risk taking. Over extending your army with the hope of a double turn. Definitely a gamble which is fitting for a dice game. But it can pay off massively. Almost every game can come down to a single dice roll. It can just be hard to see sometimes. The double turn is something obvious that upset players can point to and blame. You can not like it but it is a big part of the rules.

[@felipeguzzonsenhorini1051]

Its shit

[@The_E_Paladin]

@@felipeguzzonsenhorini1051 What a well thought out response.

[@judjementine]

sure, but it's a core part of the rules that people dislike and feel should not be there. just like the flat to wound is a core part of the game, but really takes the wind out of my sales thematically. stabbing a grot with this spear I'm just as likely to wound it as i am to wound this ogre, or giant armoured gunship. that mechanic also goes against your point of reduces math hammer as things have an even more statistically calculable damage output and I can even math hammer harder to figure out what they would have the highest efficiency against in my opponent's forces. just because something is a core part of the game rules currently doesn't mean it has to be going forward nor that people have to play it that way currently.

[@The_E_Paladin]

@@judjementine My point is your math hammer is lessened by the random turns. And they don’t have to play AoS. 40k has set turns and variable to wound based on weapon strength and target toughness. But AoS is more fast paced and lighter on rules than 40k. I’m glad they are different games.

[@judjementine]

@@The_E_Paladin sure they don't have to play AOS, but by the same merit why should they not play AOS just because they don't like the double turn mechanic and decide to play without it.

[@horaciorivas7405]

As a lifetime silver member :) i approve the new title “The Batter part of Valor” lol

[@The_E_Paladin]

Bastiladon basically has ethereal until it is damaged. Didn’t matter because of a one, but important to remember.

[@JackCawood]

Why does every single warscroll in Seraphon have a shooting attack?

[@lordravenblade]

That’s just kinda been skinks’ thing since the 5ed book. None of the Saurus have shooting attacks except the old blood on carno in exchange.

[@benn1181]

Epic game, I love Josh's giants!

[@vocenoctum2046]

I'll go ahead and mention it now, though they may catch it later, but you can't double fire the bows. Just the solar engine or engine of the gods.

[@vocenoctum2046]

Also, it didn't matter because you rolled a 1, but the Bastiladon's 1+ save wouldn't be 4+ at rend 3. The -3 is to the die roll, and cannot reduce it below 1. So it would still fail only on a natural 1... which you rolled, but still. :)

[@Collinpawns]

@@vocenoctum2046 it's like that in 40k so that's probably why he made the mistake

[@larrybarba7757]

These guys don't even follow the rules when they know them...

[@k.c.skedzielewski6021]

You can't CP a stegadon to shoot again, only Bastiladon, or EotG. You can use this command ability at the end of your shooting phase. If you do so, pick 1 friendly THUNDER LIZARD BASTILADON, or friendly THUNDER LIZARD ENGINE OF THE GODS,

[@hawkeye9517]

Stegadons can't shoot twice with the Command Ability in Thunderlizards. Only Bastiladons and Engine of the Gods.

[@joewilkinson242]

Glad someone’s said it

[@daniellaatsch5807]

Very competitive lists basically just have enough output to delete any unit from SOB, but have more options for screening and such.

[@tombackhouse7271]

What's a great bat rep really fun to watch. Love how you guys are rolling for the double turn and juts allowing your opponent to take it haha. I honestly don't think I would ever take a double turn if I knew it would just win the game for me for me. Its not enjoyable in that regards( out side of a tournament setting anyway) Cheers gents

[@VoltekCastles]

Can we run this many behemoths? I want to do something similar so wondering. Thanks

[@BrutalAsKittens]

Stegadon are battle line in thunder lizards, so steve had the max behemoth plus them

[@williambryant6175]

Loving all the Sons love lately!

[@tomdonoghue777]

Awesome batrep love big models having a smash fight

[@TheTomAbz]

At first i was like whoa those dinis are hitting with 3 attacks esch dping 3 or 4 damage... and then i realized the giants were not going down after getting hit with something like that XD

[@simonwilliamnoelmurray9179]

Fee Fi Fo Fum I smell the blood of a Seraphon!

[@The_E_Paladin]

So, how many rules do MWG ignore?

[@peterantcliff6319]

alot lol

[@hardgone2875]

you know that they often play with customs rules?

[@The_E_Paladin]

@@hardgone2875 I know. That’s why I asked. They are playing homebrew AoS.

[@judjementine]

@@DS-ms2ih maybe you should watch those channels instead then if you're upset with the way MWG does things?

[@loganporter6]

You two are always entertaining to watch. Next time Steve and Josh should play armies they DON’T want to play like Stormcast v Skaven or just play warcry. Great game!

[@mwgjosh5161]

Does it count if I just don't want to play Steve?

[@bartvanasperdt2615]

Fun match to watch. I have a suggestion for a little alteration, since other comments pointed out, you can only shoot bastilladons twice. If you cut the 20 man Saurus-guard squad and add Kroak + bound burning head, and swap out the trogglodon for another bastilladon, you can have two bastilladons shooting twice with rerolling 1's.

[@katarhall3047]

Hard to not add Kroak to most lists, he's so bloody useful.

[@mr.bsartroom8673]

Yessss Back to Dinosaurs!

[@KP-ek7qu]

I wonder if you missed one point for Josh at the end of round 2? Should not he scored 4 (2 objective, including the priority plus battleline) making it 10 for Josh instead of 9 ? Meaning the game a draw? 🙂

[@seraphoncobus]

Very fun game! You for got the steggy impact hits!

[@seraphoncobus]

Nevermind

[@Drajika]

whats up with Wanderers army? :D anything good? or just... forgotten! Poor poor woodelves.

[@Drajika]

i just wanna say . todays game was amazing to watch :D! why? Two awsome dudes playing two cool armies! I been interested in warhammer for awhile but never got into the hobby . i prefer fantasy over scifi buuut 40k is growing on me. i always had a soft spot for dwarves or woodelves. but sigmar kinda killed them for me cuz KO i feel are way to much steampunk, and the fire dudes well... i just liked the old dwarves. Woodelves looks amazing still but noone playes them? i would like to see the wanderers shoot and run out of the table to pop up somewhere els mechanic one day :D! maybe you guys got some nice wanderers hiding somewhere? and maybe build an army ( put some wildriders in there cuz... they look amazing and are my favorite models) i do wanna get started in this hobby but picking an army has been pretty rough! but i have looking into. lizards,sonsofbehemat,wanderers or somthing death (cuz necromancy is absolutely the coolest spellclass). Thanks for todays game and know that this Swede is very thankful for the entertainment you bring especially these darktimes .

[@MasterofPandP]

@@Drajika well you would have to play Cities of Sigmar to play wanderers and with exeption of the Eternalguard the Units are just underwhelming plus they cant use bows anymore^^ only the Sisters (18 inch Range)something i really dont understand same thing with dwarves that cant use muskets anymore or cannons they can only repair Human Rockets or Multibarrel cannons or be irondrakes but holding a crossbow or musket is not possible ^^

[@Drajika]

@@MasterofPandP oh wow. Aouch! :o

[@Dragon-ig2me]

Nice video i liked it very much

[@SadGOOSE3]

when the tiny one is apart of chaos xD

[@threedawg]

The rant at the end was great

[@tecgoblin]

Without double turn you might have a first or second turn advantage (depending on the scenario / armies). In both cases the lowest-drops would get an advantage that's higher than knowing where your opponent deployed. That said, a double turn in the right moment can be an even bigger advantage. Is it fair? Not sure. Does it add some variety in a game that's not super balanced so that even the underdog has a chance? Sure. So some people might enjoy it. In my experience, choosing whether to go 1st or 2nd had real meaning and balance when you play with real predatory endless spells and armies that are not fully shooting. The new wave of asymmetrical endless spells and the rise of extreme shooting armies have turned the tip and opinion against the double turn.

[@BR4IN1N4J4R]

As a Sons fan since the initial teasers, Gatebreaker with Incandescent Rageblade and Louder than Words is a fun General for Breaker Tribe, especially with Bossy Pants and Clever Clogs for your Loathing

[@abjeffre]

Lol. "The Batter Part of Valor". Coo, coo coo, cool.

[@caspianbchalphy]

I said it on the last AoS video but I’ll say it here too. I actually like the double turn mechanic for a few reasons, but I’ll at least say this. Houserules are a thing and are perfectly acceptable. Now yes you have an audience who pays to watch you play these games so that can be dictate how you play but honestly I’m not going to complain since I’ve ignored rules like terrain types and realm rules. I just hope that when you do let guests back in you will ask if they want to use the double turn and if they do you’ll accept that. The one thing I will say though is that everyone who complained about it acts as if there are no positives and only those who already have an advantage get the double turn. You act as though it’s never helped those who were trailing behind her a comeback. Basically you only talk about negative situations it creates and ignore positive ones.

[@judjementine]

they stated that the reason they started ignoring the double turn mechanic because it was ruining too many battle reports by making the games too short to be uploaded. and, i have to say looking at a lot of the battle reports they posted back when they did utilize the mechanic. most of the battles outcomes could be seen very early on when one of the players got a double turn. out of all the age of sigmar I've watched on this channel, i've seen the double turn mechanic seal the outcome more often than i've seen it resuscitate a battle. in this battle for instance, the double turn mechanic would have just ruined the game as josh would be able to immediately charge into all the stegadons and been able to wipe them out before they could shoot his army to death. was much more fun to watch the seraphon barely clutching out the victory with so many things hanging onto a clutch single wound than seeing sons wipe out the shooting dinos with a double turn. sure they're not talking about the negatives, but it's because everyone knows the positives and their viewpoint is that it is more negative than positive, thus they are going to provide evidence and talk about situations where it was negative more than positive. you don't say "i think this mechanic is bad and should be removed because" and then start talking about how it is a good mechanic.

[@wulfrik1631]

We know it has both upsides and downsides. This game is a perfect example. If Josh had taken the double turn the game would have been over turn two and it would be a crappy battle report.

[@caspianbchalphy]

@@judjementine eh I’ve seen it turn the tides in favor of someone losing more than the other way around (but I’m looking at non MWG battles too). I get that in their case it’s caused battles to be shorter and I understand in their kind of play style it doesn’t work. I’m saying that while I like the mechanic I think it’s completely fine if they don’t utilize the mechanics because houserule. I’m also not saying it’s perfect. I like the idea but it needs to be tweaked, but I do think it’s much better than not using it since again it’s easier for comebacks to happen. In this game idk if it truly would have ruined it because your already assuming that the double turn would’ve happened in Josh’s favor. You don’t know that and that’s another part of what I’m talking about when I say people only bring up the negatives. You assume it would’ve helped Josh when it just as easily not favored him at all. Now yes you’re not going to say “I think this mechanic is bad and should be removed because...” and then talk about how it’s a good mechanic but that’s not at all what I’m saying. I’m saying that If they want to make a good argument against it then explain the positives to it but then explain why the positive isn’t as big of a deal, or isn’t much of a positive, and how the negatives outweigh the positives. Instead they ignore the positives and it to some it could come off as they are uninformed or they think that the arguments for it are stronger than their arguments against it so they choose to ignore them (doesn’t matter if it’s true or not that can be how some interpret it).

[@judjementine]

@@caspianbchalphy honestly I'd be willing to accept double turn if it was something that could only occur turn 4 or 5 or maybe only was rolled when the second player was behind on objectives. it's a catch up mechanic to make up for first player going first. the problem is in AOS going first often doesn't mean you're ahead of your opponent. so when second player gets the better end of the stick, double turn just becomes a win more mechanic which is not fun.

[@jordivermeulen2519]

Are there games that are "saved" by a double turn? Absolutely. The problem for me, as a player of weaker armies like Nighthaunt and Sylvaneth, is that if I win against an army that's heavily favoured because of a double turn, I don't feel like I've really earned it. There are occassions where you set yourself up gambling on a double turn, but they're rare. On the other hand, if I get double turned, it's usually the end of the game, and it feels like the game just made you lose, rather than me having made some misplay. Most of the armies I play against almost auto-win if they get a double turn (KO, Ironjawz, shooty CoS, DoK, Seraphon). Another thing I don't like about it, is that it puts huge pressure on you to have a list that's at most maybe three drops, because otherwise your opponent will give you the first turn and hope for the double. It means that many lists that seem like fun and that I would like to play are essentially a gamble.

[@lord_akimbo6735]

"Begause-" ~Josh

[@chaotictattoo]

I played against the sons a couple times now and don't find them that hard to beat anymore so i decided to make my own army of them... I actually use the 1 mega and a bunch of mancrushers and its a lot more fun although not super powerful, but fun to use having more models on the board plus my opponents aren't as angry when i play them

[@splaartflunterklufn9797]

I love the seraphon so muchhh

[@XvShadowsvX]

SERAPHON! Woo!

[@ac833]

Man the giants are awesome. No flash no tricks just big dumb giant stuff. Edit: completely agree with the shooting stuff. This isnt 40k but its quickly turning into it

[@MasterofPandP]

Why do you guys hate shooting so much? you played fantasy where one spearthrower/or cannon could kill hole squads of cavalary and you are not whining about that... keep up the good work though in addition to that almost all shooting units are completly useless in melee(seems like seraphon are the exception) especially KO the problem with them is there mobility and the overall problem with aos is that gw wants to sell there stuff so everthing that is new is stronger so you buy it because its stronger. thats why for example my Cities of Sigmar suck so hard they are recycled kits some of them are 20 years old... what gw needs is balancing so old books just need updates either drop the points of things or buff there stats... 300 points in one army should be comparable to 300 Points in any other army something thats not the case which is obvious when you play small games. for example 240 Points for one of these Stegadons its impossible for the Cities of SIgmar to get that much shooting, mobility and lifepoints with that kind of save for the Points the shooting would be 2 hellblaster cannons, the mobility+save and lifepoints would be 10 Drakspawn knights (20points more). In my Opinion thats the problem of the game not the double turns they are ok they only suck for the newer more overpowerd books because the rules just keep escalating each new book must be stronger then the last otherwise they cant sell ther products or at least thats what they think...

[@javids.9537]

So my points as to why the double turn should stay *sort of. As much as they can remove it, they can also improve it. Imagine if you will, that the person who lost the double turn got something at the top of the round. It could be +1 save army wide or better yet, a bonus move (these are just examples). Or get rid of the rule from the core book and move it to specific missions. I think the mechanic is there and they have not utilized it to the fullest potential. They tried with endless spells but imo that wasn't good enough. I like it because I have learned that game will end by turn 2 or 3 depending on that dice roll. I just don't have time to play a grindy game for the feels bad if that makes sense. Now I do play 40K as well so if it goes away I wont be upset.

[@judjementine]

had this thought responding to a different post. double turn may be a decent mechanic if it only occured when you were in a "losing" situation, aka behind on points. for instance in this game, despite going second josh had control of the objectives and was ahead on VP. all josh getting a double turn at this point does is make him go from a situation he's winning to a situation where he is winning more, the big problem with double turning. this modification to the rule prevents that from happening. now, i know it's probably not a perfect solution, but i think it would result in the mechanic working better as intended. which is, giving the armies that are behind a chance to catch up to the army that is beating them, and swing games rather than just sealing them.

[@javids.9537]

judgementine that is a really good idea. I am gonna try it next time I play against my housemates.

[@Greatkingrat88]

The double turn is absolute cancer. _Every time_ I have a nice, even game going on, a double turn comes along to ruin it completely. It's an obnoxious, totally random mechanic.

[@javids.9537]

@@Greatkingrat88 I wouldn't compare it to cancer but it is most certainly not for everyone nor is it great in the current version.

[@Greatkingrat88]

@@javids.9537 I use hyperbolic language here, but it really is the one thing that's keeping me from playing. I overall enjoy AoS, and I love my seraphon army, but I am fed up with having one fun game after another ruined by a shitty double turn. 40k has its issues, but at least it's stable.

[@TimeTravelisBoring]

That's a close shave!

[@chaoseverchosen]

In my opinion I don't like the double turn either so I'm with you guys

[@dineshpeeris4828]

Steve you can't shoot with a stegadon again. Only engine of the gods and a bastilodon

[@tymoteuszkosinski5352]

Yaaay 100th episode!

[@Sackclothman7679]

Awsome battle

[@VAB0L0]

That army library though

[@augustocarnevale1900]

So sad no double turn

[@l.w.1014]

My god, those SoB saves are a crime against Nuffle! That or someone bribed Nuffle...

[@markgrehan3726]

It would be so cool if you guys reached out to the crew of the Facehammer Podcast it would be really interesting to hear you guys discuss the current meta.

[@grouchydadpaintco.1853]

Brace for the no double turn comments!!!!

[@marc-andredeslauriers7687]

No double turn comment. You happy now?

[@joh7746]

I love to watch steve play. Always funny but a little anoing he doesn know the rules and warscrolls better.

[@tarahills8693]

Do giants vs ogres!

[@Amamiyacasual]

Bastis are 1 up no matter the rend Dx.

[@theos8645]

Came here to say this, basti is immune to rend until it loses wound but Steve rolled a nat 1 as the first save so no big change

[@Trolleri87]

Phteven and his dinosaurs

[@1289cassavant]

Let’s see Stormcast!

[@Jimbovang]

SONS OF BEHEMAT!!!

[@durnaxe8708]

I know people keep complaining about the removing of the random turn mechanic but to be honest the biggest problems with AoS and 40k is the whole "IgoYougo" mechanic. If you alternated actions or even were limited by what actions you could take a turn the games would be far better. IE move or shoot or charge/melee, not all 3. As for the match itself, Dinos vs giants sounds like cup of tea. Now if only the GW giants weren't so dopey looking.

[@jy8081]

a little odd that Steve didn't make the bastilodon fire twice more often but I liked the good showing of the Lizards

[@Falithomas]

I love how Steve had gotten everyone at MWG to call them stegotrons by this point

[@augustocarnevale1900]

Yeah sons of b

[@josephvaccariello4181]

I dont want to say this cause its a little sneaky but why dont you guys just do a fake roll off where ya just cut out anytime where the dice would cause a double turn. The videos already have a lot of editing in them so i dont think many people would notice

[@mwgjosh5161]

Feels dishonest

[@caspianbchalphy]

This could work. Yes I’m sure people will catch on to the fact that the dice keep conveniently not having a double turn happen, but I think this is something that could be done. Or instead of cutting out the die roll just film takes where they roll off and use the take that they want.

[@judjementine]

they did roll of and refuse the double turn. rule doesn't tell you to person who wins has to take first turn it says person who wins chooses to go first. they were technically using the rule, it's just it never did anything cause they always choosing the same order.

[@EarthenPanda]

OK Beard and Rock here is my argument for the double turn. Movement is key in this game. With a static turn mechanic shooting armies can more confidentently kite and screen with little worry for surprise move. Take this game and Josh's comment about KO not caring as an example. This game your shooting was in no danger because you chaffed and knew your opponent wasn't going to play the game correctly allowing you to maintain your lines and keep your chaff units alive for an extra turn. KO don't care because they are already the most mobile army and can kite with no issue. Outside Lumineth, lizard bois and flamer spam most of the other shooting in the game is too weak to truly cripple your army. Personally Beard as an ogor player you did me a disservice for not smahing his shooting this game and utilizing the correct turn mechanic. My disappointment is immeasurable and my day is ruined.

[@simonecresce5748]

"My disappointment is immeasurable and my day is ruined." Man, you really need to review your life priorities.

[@Lenneth8]

@EarthenPanda IT'S NOT ABOUT HAVING FUN!!! WE MUST BE CORRECT AT ALL TIMES!!! Who hurt ya buddy cause it is hilarious not matter what :D

[@WiredCurrent]

If you're playing narrative I'm completely fine with chaos turns. If you're trying to do anything resembling matched play Chaos turns make the results null and void. To this day I've never lost a game where I double turn either turn two or three. Imagine 40k with double turns it's a bit laughable and movement is as important in that game as it is here. The day is ruined thing is a bit much even to just quote unless its just straight sarcasm lol.

[@EarthenPanda]

@@simonecresce5748 Obviously a joke.

[@EarthenPanda]

@@WiredCurrent Obviously this is sarcasm. Their game group is a bit of an echo chamber when it comes to the game, being long term 40k/fantasy players. I think they, and by extension, you are wrong about the turn mechanic. You are either generalizing or have terrible opponents to win 100% of your games with double turns. All things can be swingy depending on the faction and list. Some lists just aren't viable. Also I utilize the vault exclusively for AOS content not fantasy 40k.

[@KhaZix94]

so i guess SoB charging damage doesnt exist now xD or "stuff em in me bag"

[@josephvaccariello4181]

um they forgot about that for like a few minutes and then went back and did them you really need to remember that they are not perfect and play a lot of armies so they are going to forget stuff a lot.

[@danielvasquez8091]

I like double turn because of randomness war is unpredictable there for a game about war should b unpredictable

[@MarlonTayte1982]

Guys, I love your batreps, but can you please stop saying "I concede" in so many games.... Fight til the end boyz 🧐

[@MountainMiniatures]

well that's it, i concede.

[@larrybarba7757]

Weaksauce changing the rules... Gives you no barometer on the state of the game and now your opinions of your home brew version dont apply to the actual system

[@judjementine]

they didn't change the rule. they still rolled josh just gave steve first turn each time.

[@Sackclothman7679]

Ya hate the double turn

[@Greatkingrat88]

Can I just say that I deeply appreciate that they don't do double turns? That whole rule mechanic is the one thing that keeps me from playing and enjoying AoS.

[@The_E_Paladin]

You can always ask your opponent to ignore it like they are doing.

[@Greatkingrat88]

@@The_E_Paladin I personally refuse to take double turns, unless they've already double turned me.

[@The_E_Paladin]

@@Greatkingrat88 Ok. That’s fine. But you should be ok with it being used against you. The rules have tactical value. Not using it can actively hinder your army. I would compare it to not using a spell or command ability. Not the end of the world but it will hinder your chances of victory.

[@Greatkingrat88]

@@The_E_Paladin I'm not okay with it, which is why I don't really play much AoS. I see absolutely zero "tactical value" here. All it does is force you to play super defensive and it might not matter anyway. It also allows shooting armies to blow you off the board in one fell sweep. "Not the end of the world" isn't true- almost every game I played where I got double turned, I lost immediately.

[@The_E_Paladin]

@@Greatkingrat88 Well, then maybe AoS is just not for you. Your personal experience in not universal. It may be your lists or your local meta. Hope you had fun and learned from your losses.

[@lieutenantgothmog4370]

Not super fun to watch when you just ignore a core game rule.

[@kurukblackflame]

Yeah-Double turn sucks. It occasionally 'saves' a game (IE-Robs someone who had earned a win of their victory) but more often it either ruins the balance of a tight game or turns a difficult game into a curbstomp. One player having little to do is the biggest flaw in any full army activation system. The double turn makes this problem WAY worse. In 40k you have to stand around while your opponent deletes 20% of your army while you can do nothing. In an AofS game vs a shooty list it's twice as bad. If anything I'd like to see them take it the opposite direction and have some sort of unit by unit activation like in 'Bolt Action' (though imo 40k needs that more than AofS).

[@hendar72]

thats above avarage !

[@marc-andredeslauriers7687]

Another week with a AoS game with no double turn mechanic. Another game I will not bother watching. Shame. See you next week ;)

[@benn1181]

Bye ✌️

[@marc-andredeslauriers7687]

@@benn1181 Hi :)

[@OhMeGaGS]

I said it in the Vault and I'll say it here. It doesn't matter how you justify not liking double turns since they were clearly ruining games for you and you guys were going "ok I concede now let's continue playing as if our game wasn't screwed by this mechanic". If people are upset by that it's their problem.

[@TheRealThirdME]

I would like MWG so much more if they would look at WHY they lose to the priority roll every time (and makes it a bad experience). Could they have played the game in a different way as to not set up the scenario where one dice roll decides the game? Could they have moved units in different ways? Wrote different lists? Played with screens? Played for the objectives? I prefer AoS to WHFB by a huge margin. But I would like to watch them play WHFB more, because it seems to fit their "in your face" playstyles a lot better.

[@jordivermeulen2519]

@@TheRealThirdME what you're saying basically boils down to "play more competitively". But that's not what these guys want, they seem more interested in playing fun weird lists and playing casually.

[@OhMeGaGS]

@@TheRealThirdME They didn't lose to it, they simply acknowledged that "ok due to how this turn roll has gone one side will now get such an insane advantage that the other has no chance of coming back from it". They want to make long games for content, I like to watch people roll dice, I don't really care who wins and neither do they it seems, so I don't care if they play with that mechanic or not.

[@marc-andredeslauriers7687]

Yeah, losing a ton of Vault subs because they're butchering their games with removal of core rules is our problem. Suuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuure.

[@maxtrika1496]

you can not take so many behemoth lizards!

[@maxtrika1496]

and u can only use basti for the second shooting

[@CLongist]

You can with Thunderlizards with the Stegs as Battleline. Their role switches from Behemoth entirely, so they don't count for max.

[@WarbossFraka]

Great battle report, glad to see no more double turn. Its an awful system that takes away from the tactics of the system and should just be removed in the next edition. A few things, you cant shoot the bows with your command ability and the Bastilidon has Etheral effectively.

[@judjementine]

this game would have just been ruined with the double turn mechanic. giants charge the stegadons and clean them up quick. even if they didn't, there is no way steve would've been able to turn it around from a loss to a victory like he did. glad you guys are playing without the rule. keep it up! game was super clutch. with so many models just barely eking out with 1 wound left. i look forward to the next one.

[@Pixieb1tch]

How has it got 2 views?

[@john-rossmorland]

Every time the double turn is removed I switch off the video. Guess I'll stick to 40k videos.

[@davidkoning4311]

Stopped watching at 22:30. Play the game right or don't play it at all.

[@TheRealThirdME]

I have resorted to just checking comments to see how badly they fucked up.. :) will watch again once comments show that they play by the rules of AoS, so that the game is representative of what I could expect myself from a game :)

[@hardgone2875]

So you can't have custom rules? if you dont like it dont watch it

[@risketos6011]

They did play it according to the rules, nothing stops them from doing so. If they enjoy it better this way then it is surely the right way to play it, and in my opinion is also more enjoyable to watch

[@TheRealThirdME]

@@hardgone2875 I didn't watch it?! I still click on the video because nowhere in the description does it say anything about this being a custom game does it? They can do whatever they feel like, just as I can voice my frustration that an otherwise great channel has deviated so far from the game I like, that they claim to cover, that I don't feel like watching their videos anymore? Again, please point me to where I state that "they can't do custom rules".. Thank you All I did was comment that I don't feel like watching their videos anymore because of their custom rules they seem to use everytime now. I'm just happy I'm not a vault member :) would cancel in a heartbeat. (this is feedback, I would hope MWG values feedback)

[@krilc]

Pretty sure playing to have fun is the "right" way

[@darkmystic7764]

You cant offend me Steve, your opinion is so meh about AOS. Just go and play Fantasy and be happy so the rest of us can enjoy AOS without haters like you. :)

[@tyrannosaurus696]

I would love it if Steve played more Fantasy, then I wouldn't have to watch batreps of this ridiculous game that was clearly invented for people with learning difficulties.

[@darkmystic7764]

@@tyrannosaurus696 Go join Steve in the bitter hater group in the corner please. :)

[@judjementine]

@@darkmystic7764 steve a hater? so expressing your opinion about a rule you dislike and feel detracts from the game and your enjoyment of it more than it adds is being a hater? also no one's forcing you to watch their AOS videos. seems like the real person with hate problems hear might be you bud.

[@whenry369]

Oh, we're ignoring rules we don't like again? Downvote and moving on. Edit: I cancelled my vault membership. Y'all have my money for the year a I guess you have until my membership would renew to figure it out. If Rerolling Ones can have random turn order and still have fun, and if other channels can manage it, I'm sure you can to. Figure it out.

[@8BitJesus]

exactly, I don't get how so many channels play with that rule, and they still put out great content. I genuinely think it's a player attitude, for whatever reason. I cancelled mine too, thankfully it was only a rolling monthly sub haha

[@marc-andredeslauriers7687]

@@8BitJesus It's easy. Matt and Steve are salty about that rule, and have been for years. They seems to be unable to play around it and do mistakes, which they perceive to be detrimental to the video. So they catered to themselves and removed it alltogether. So those that enjoy playing VERY VERY VERY casually and bad will enjoy the ''fun and smiles'' batreps while those that want to see proper Matched Play AoS will unsubscribe, cancel their Vault and move to other channels

[@claw_and_fang]

Love those guys who defends a double turn. It's awful mechanic, shouldn't be in aos at all, games are no fun to watch when someone gets crushed in 2 turns. I guess it's them who play KO or Lumineth to pray for double and table opponent. Fun guys, love to play against them. MVG you are doing the right thing keep up the good work

[@CLongist]

Those are the players who would love to not have double turns! Easier to predict and mathhammer yourself a win with no double turns.

[@claw_and_fang]

@@CLongist what are mathammer have to do with double turn?) I want for the game to be not decided by one roll or it's just like 8e 40k where if I go first with my guard I win if not I probably lose. So fun and interactive just wow. I'm playing war games to test my mind and to have fun with other local club members. And if GW are making a bad rules which they do constantly, it's not my or MWG problem. Wanna watch getting crushed by one dice roll? Go to any tournament, happens every time lol

[@TheRealThirdME]

In my opinion the game is A LOT more tactical because of the priority roll.. Might I suggest you look at the gamestate at the bottom of each turn. To see how you set yourself up for either taking priority or losing it? Could you have placed yourself better? Balance is off in certain armies for sure (both at the top, and at the bottom), but the priority roll is not to blame for this :)

[@claw_and_fang]

@@TheRealThirdME When you must think "what happens if I get doubled" it's not like you play more tactical or on the deep level. You just limit your play style, do it more defencively, screen etc. Or you go full auto and hope to win the roll and crush your opponent or concede. Been on both sides, both suck for me)) Shooting armies are not on top because they so cool, it's because if they double you, they auto win. It's that simple. Where so much in the game are decided with one roll it's just poor game designing

[@Michael-gs3lw]

@@claw_and_fang Well. You should also think stuff like "What if I don't kill what I'm aiming at". Shooting armies are not on the top of the chart due to the double mechanic. They are on top because they have One drop (So decide how they want to play), insane mobility (Teleportation everywhere) and ungodly amount of BM. -Shootcast (Teleportation + movement tricks + one drop + not on the table so not vulnerable + BM on double shoot) -Tzeench (Teleportation + insane value on pinks + one drop + Almost BM with Flamers + really strong hero phase) -Seraphon ( Teleportation + BM on skinks + Can't catch them due to Sotek Fangs + really strong hero phase) -Kharadron (Teleportation + ethaergold to avoit the "what happens if I don't kill" +high rend/almost BM) -Lumineth (Insane amount of BM on the whole table + strong hero phase) These ones are the low "High tier" because they need to score at the end (no TP) Do you see the pattern of the top lists ? They can kill what's important on one turn, wherever you are. Double turn is not taking in account for that. They will usually take the first one to be sure to kill the important stuff first. If they are doubled ? Well, two turns of mediocre shooting won't do any good)

[@smatta84]

got 20 mins in....realized you are not actually playing the game as its designed...stopped watching..... Cool that you are doing your own thing but I'll go elsewhere for battle reports that use the rules correctly.

[@Reavyne]

Lol 😆

[@staalforsfh]

First!

[@staalforsfh]

Yes!

[@simonwilliamnoelmurray9179]

No one cares

[@staalforsfh]

@@simonwilliamnoelmurray9179 Obviously I do

[@simonwilliamnoelmurray9179]

@@staalforsfh Indeed, because you are no one.

[@staalforsfh]

@@simonwilliamnoelmurray9179 Why are you so bitter?

[@gootubesucks9390]

age of crapmar is just bad fanfiction LONG LIVE OWW reeeeeeeeeeeee