Serhii Plokhy: History of Ukraine, Russia, Soviet Union, KGB, Nazis & War | Lex Fridman Podcast

[@lexfridman]

Here are the timestamps. Please check out our sponsors to support this podcast. Transcript: lexfridman.com/serhii-plokhy-transcript 0:00 - Introduction & sponsor mentions: - Eight Sleep: eightsleep.com/lex to get special savings - Shopify: shopify.com/lex to get $1 per month trial - NetSuite: netsuite.com/lex to get free product tour - AG1: drinkag1.com/lex to get 1 month supply of fish oil 1:18 - Collapse of the Soviet Union 17:27 - Origins of Russia and Ukraine 30:30 - Ukrainian nationalism 38:13 - Stepan Bandera 1:07:13 - KGB 1:22:11 - War in Ukraine 1:58:27 - NATO and Russia 2:09:30 - Peace talks 2:23:17 - Ukrainian Army head Valerii Zaluzhnyi 2:29:54 - Power and War 2:40:45 - Holodomor 2:47:17 - Chernobyl 2:57:51 - Nuclear power 3:07:28 - Future of the world

[@yuriimakarov4832]

Very thank full for this guest, I almost lost hope and thought you will invite guests that repeat russian propaganda narrative

[@nikan2269]

Nice follow-up after TC. I know this is a topic you are passionate about based on past discussions and posts. Thank you for sharing this content.🤙🏼

[@reggiesilver384]

ty Lex gg wp gl hf

[@metju30]

Totally delusional in his predictions

[@FaerieSidhe]

When is the Destiny Finkelstein debate going to be available? Is it a secret??????

[@michaelcruz8425]

Lex, I don't know how often you read your comments but listening to your podcasts with political thinkers and historians has done a lot for me. I started college at 16 and have delayed my graduation over and over again because I couldn't figure out what I wanted to do. I majored in Political Science. The amount of knowledge that I had gained from these podcasts had inspired me to open up a few books and it reignited my interest in my field, making me happy to finally decide to make a career out of this. Thank you

[@kurtdixon4700]

Wow! That is very inspiring!

[@muhammadhasanin8413]

Good speed Michael. It’s never delayed, you’re only on time brother. Good luck in your endeavors

[@jeffjames3111]

Amazing. Thanks.

[@TheTarotDJ333]

What a cool comment for Lex to get! 🌟 Good luck, Michael, with whatever you decide to do! Knowledge is the key to freedom!✨️

[@TheTarotDJ333]

LEX IS HOT!!!! 🔥🔥🔥

[@andreme7326]

You need to invite Timothy Snyder too.

[@manlikederek925]

I think he's done Lex's podcast before

[@Abby-np5rr]

He is completely out of touch

[@andreme7326]

@@Abby-np5rr he's an expert on the subject.

[@ageekay3879]

Please no 😂

[@SergiyJust]

Would be good but Lex probably would afraid to. As Timothy is very open & sincere about nature of russians 😊

[@niloyahmed7792]

Please lex, have more historians. Thanks for the conversations

[@wishIKnewHowToLove]

this "historian" is rewriting history...

[@Petro250]

@@wishIKnewHowToLoveprove it, he had some minor inaccuracies but for the most part was correct objectively

[@iamthereforeistrive9392]

Historians...who is ordering them the narrative? I no longer know who to trust. I do not even know is having a historian from the opposite side would help. Maybe a historian of the C.I.A. (not their own), or some kind of an "Economic Assassin" guest would help see better how the relationships BTW close nations were historically muddled with.

[@salimmazariboufares3118]

This one is not a historian, is a propagandist.

[@liamriley9816]

“Historians”

[@andrewdemchyshyn6599]

Better later then never: 1st Ukrainian voice on this podcast for last 2 years

[@cookml]

How many Russians voices have we heard?

[@planet-karma]

​@@cookml Tucker Carlson, John Meirsheimer, Robert F. Kennedy Jr., Oliver Stone - among others. He gives a stage to many Americans who parrot Russian propaganda - knowingly or not. Hearing from Ukrainians at least allows people to hear the side of the country being invaded - and constantly disparaged by his guests.

[@Grek1574]

@@cookmlTaker😂

[@andrewdemchyshyn6599]

@@cookml I mean every podcast have “russian” voice

[@andrewdemchyshyn6599]

@@cookml jokes aside, every other guest that talk on topic of geopolitics is russian simp or carrying pro russian views on russia war on Ukraine. There were Guests without pro russian views - you can even say they hold anti russian but American views, not Ukrainian view. The difference is that you can say to anti russian American “it is fake, it is propaganda, you believe media too much” when you discuss russian war, but you cant say it that easily to Ukrainians, they know their facts about invasion directly from their relatives and friends also they understand russian language and that’s why understand more clearly what russians say and what their goal is.

[@yuriywankiewicz6689]

11:52 Serhii mentions that "level of russification is much higher" in the post soviet state of Russia. The closed captions says 'unification' rather than 'russification.' This mistranslation/ failure at writing the correct words used is something that should be corrected, as the meaning conveyed by those two terms is strikingly different for everyone who is not perhaps Russian.....

[@zetristan4525]

You could not have been pleased when it automatically transcribed you as Wank a witch

[@yuriywankiewicz6689]

@@zetristan4525 funny

[@zetristan4525]

​@@yuriywankiewicz6689And wouldn't Plokhy be translated as Bads? 😜If not, my bad...

[@daniel8728]

And the Ukrainization of Russians, Hungarians, Poles, Romanians, and others is just dandy! Hypocrisy!

[@yuriywankiewicz6689]

@@daniel8728 What was done in Ukrainianization? All I know is Ukraine trying to make Ukranian the only official language, anything else? Cause if not then there's no comparison here.

[@christinemartin63]

By far, the best interviews (IMHO) are the ones with historians. Mindbenders all!

[@F4nTom_II]

One minor correction (at 18:44): "Once we had Czechoslovaks, now we have Czechs and Slovaks." Sorry for going nitpicky, but compared to the others mentioned, it's a bit misleading. Slovaks, Moravians and Czechs (going east-to-west) can technically be taken as three stages of settling in one direction of the slavic diaspora. But Czechoslovakia and the idea of a joint nation is an invention of the early 20th Century, made out of sheer convenience to make a better case for RE-establishing a country after the breakup of Austro-Hungaria. Sadly enough, the wider English culture remains oblivious to anything that went on between the German and Russian lands prior to Napoleon winning at Austerlitz. Like... Czechs having a fairly singificant presence in Europe for centuries as a nation and kingdom (until the 1620 Battle of White Mountain), even having one of their major monarchs as the Holy Roman Emperor (Charles IV, recently elevated from virtually-unknown to somewhat-known worldwide thanks to the game Kingdom Come: Deliverance). Czechs and Slovaks exist as separate nations/ethnics/... since pre-1000AD and in the case of Czechs, the oldest written local sources go down to the 13th Century. Differences between Czechs and Moravians are barely worth mentioning, as both groups always maintained close ties. But Slovaks were largely separated from much of their western kin most of the time, mostly due to geographic and political reasons. The Czechoslovak get-together-again after WW1 was an idealistic political stunt that looked great on paper back then, but was doomed to fail in the long run in any case. This would be worth a whole socio-economic lecture. Also, the thing about "Bohemia" and "Bohemians" is a sad historical misnomer worthy of an entire lecture too.

[@unreliablenarrator6649]

See my comment for a correction of a rediculously inaccurate board statement he makes. I'll suggest he is not an expert on East Asian history and should probably say less until he learns more.

there was a common empire "great moravia" in 9-10th century, the split happened when Magyar came then it became Bohemia and Hungary

[@cioccolateriaveneziana]

But Great Moravia wasn't a "national state", it was simply an early medieval state-like formation of some slavic tribes. And the tribe that later gave name to the Czech nation, the ancient Czechs, was just one peripheral tribe dependent on the prince of Moravia. @

[@PKowalski2009]

I don't know whether 1,000 years ago Czechs were ethnically different from Poles or Slovaks; whether countries didn't distinguish themselves earlier than nations. But you are right -- talking about the ancient past using the word "Czechoslovakian" is a biting mistake here.

[@yurilytviak9066]

This is true , but I understood Plokhy as explaining how matters looked or was described in the west , especially america…

[@Evergreen0021]

The Canadian parliament clearly said he fought against Russia in WW2. They knew exactly who he was.

[@JaceDean89]

Exactly the only ppl to fight against the Russians in WW2 were the Nazis, the Fins, the Poles, and the Japanese. He wasn't a Fin, a Pole, and damn sure wasn't Japanese. 😂 They knew exactly who that SS member was. Wow how the world has flipped on its head. We were fighting side by side with the Russians against the Nazis. Now we're applauding them/him for fighting against Russia. He might've killed Americans, Canadians, Australians, British, and the French too for all they know.. Unbelievable! I would bet you all the money in my bank account that he was on the Western Front before the Eastern Front.. Causing mass genocide, and war crimes.. 😮

[@clintloranrand951]

😂 or 😮??? Who else fought agains Russia after 1941 and where was Canada's ALLIES

[@Dr_Beastus]

What a great, deeply informative episode. It's a shame it has more than 10 times less views than the one with Tucker

[@TonnyDeff]

It's bias. This guy is lying. Try to fact-check him.

[@Dr_Beastus]

@@TonnyDeff I’ll look into it - can you give some examples of points where he is lying? Also, what’s a good unbiased source?

[@TonnyDeff]

@@Dr_Beastus One example - he said there are no NAZIs in Ukraine nowadays. Please search in Google or better in DuckDuckGo NAZI and Ukraine. You will find a lot of evidence: symbols, flags, pictures, and tattoos (even with Hiter himself). Please read about SS Galizien and the Wolynia Massacre in 1943. He said also Bandera is considered as NAZI because he collaborated with Hitler, but also others (Stalin for instance) also collaborated with Hitler. The truth is Bandera is considered as a NAZI because he shared the same ideas with Hitler: Jews, Russians, Poles and other nations are less human than Ukrainians and Germans. Ukraine should be pure like a glass of water - and so on.

[@TonnyDeff]

@@Dr_Beastus check this en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Decalogue_of_a_Ukrainian_Nationalist

[@Kevin97587]

@@Dr_Beastus Too many things but as a general thing, he keeps talking about Ukraine as a democracy.. Ukraine is/was known to be one of the most corrupt countries, Zelensky banned freedom of press, EU/Ukrainian leaders lied about Minsk, He forcefully mobilised for this war, he doesnt allow mae to leave their country. Does this sound like a democracy?

[@djquinn11]

Lex always gets the best guests. I respect his interview style and his intellect, he’s not an ideologue.

[@ds6914]

I think he secretly supports Russia

[@larynOneka8080]

@@ds6914 Lex is from Russia.

[@JustAsPlanned1]

@@ds6914 I thought so too until he called Zelensky a hero.

[@lukebruce5234]

@@ds6914 I think he is extremely anti Russian and pro Western to the point of it being funny.

[@johnchristopher3032]

​@lukebruce5234 Once you've lived in each, the choice is easy. Remember, Lexs people are Ukrainian, too.

[@alex_d-f7p]

Very nice overview of the historical landscape around Ukraine. Like the way Serhii tells history, it's not boring at all. Read one of his books, worth reading

[@SergiyNesterenko]

Lex, this is a great interview! Have you considered mediating a debate between Plokhy and Mearsheimer, whose theories go unchallenged?

[@okplay9446]

Great idea

[@renatobelic]

Mearsheimer would crash his claims.For instance,this guy somehow conclude that for Putin the collapse of SSSR was bigger tragedy than loss of man during the ww2. So, Mearsheimer would have probably tell him that you can't compare loss of life kind of tragedy with the term "GEOPOLITICAL catastrophe"!Putin said it very clear for the most of people,but this guy is not one of them.If you want to learn from guy who can't comprehend a simple sentence,go on.This kind of people are not seeking the truth,they already decided what it looks like and then they looking for pretext for it.

[@saturn_in_blue]

Mearshiemer is a coward, fraud and compulsive liar. He would never agree to an interview with someone who could expose his lies.

[@ldhorricks]

@@renatobelic what on earth are you talking about?

[@renatobelic]

@@ldhorricks Putin has described the collapse of Soviet Union as a "largest GEOPOLITICAL catastrophe of the century".He did not describe it as a largest human tragedy,or human loss.If he would do that,then this so-called historian could claim that for Putin "the biggest tragedy is not the loss of life,the biggest tragedy is the loss of the great power..."Do you understand now,or should I draw it to you?

[@irina573]

Пан Сергій - фаховий та поважний вчений. На питання "в чому сенс вторгнення в 2022?" майстерно почав з "коли війна почалась в 2014..." Brilliantly

[@AvatarSD]

Так, хоча в багатьох аспектах, по типу: чому Ярослав Мудрий почав штампувати гривну, він не розповів)

[@ufukpolat3480]

He also skillfully ignored the Maidan Coup, the right wing violence and US state department support leading up to it. What a clown is this guy that he never mentions the role of Victoria Nuland, as if she hasn't been exposed meddling in Ukrainian affairs. Ukraine got what it deserved because of people like Serhii.

[@irina573]

@@ufukpolat3480 the ears of the Kremlin stick out from under your hat. hello mr major of russion FSB 😄🤡

[@kanycmun]

@@irina573of course I see how are you dumb. Just see how much people was at maidan, and how much was at full Ukraine. Too close argument my boy

[@tarasshevchenko8917]

⁠@@irina573Yet he’s not wrong. There has been meddling way before 2014. If there is a counter argument, it would be nice to have a constructive discussion. Дякую.

[@MYOB2023]

My great grandmother was from Nova Lesna, Slovakia so I am eager to hear this episode and learn more about that time. Many thanks

[@standad7541]

Doporučuju Snyderovi lekce na yt.

[@PRINCIPijalan]

After listening this western version of the history you need to listen the eastern version, and the truth is somewhere in the middle.

[@oleh_1337]

@@PRINCIPijalan you mean the KGB version?

[@MYOB2023]

@@standad7541 Timothy Snyder? I will look into it! Thanks!

[@MYOB2023]

@@PRINCIPijalan Any suggestions on ones you find more accurate?

[@maryedoolan7868]

Thank you both for a truly worthwhile 3+ hours, previously I had a rather sketchy knowledge (very sketch)y!) of Ukrainian history, I now feel I might be in a position to learn a lot more - re-read Bloodlands, listen to your program once again, buy a book or two of the professor’s books.

[@Vasleal]

2:12:15 he lost a bit of credibility in that answer. Yes, Zelensky has proven tough, but he can also act tough in part because of the support he has form the West.

[@paulbadics3500]

Finland is not same as Ukraine from Putins point of view

[@cioccolateriaveneziana]

Well, not now when it's in the NATO, thankfully.

[@WangMingGe]

Yet the Russians tried repeatedly to take it over, and did succeed in seizing some of its territory.

[@nyalarhotep]

It never was, since `45. Finns were fooled into NATO and out of neutrality. And actually, only NOW they are in potential danger.@@cioccolateriaveneziana

[@clintloranrand951]

??? Finland has never been any Russian land as there are no Russians. Okraine (not Ukraine) is Novorossiya being taken from the Ottomans from 21 wars until Vlachia (Rumenia) 1707. Ukraine is mostly Galicia and west from Kiev and had NEVER being on Black Sea . Ukrainians and Okrainian- Russian settlers are two different ethnic groups, like Serbs and Croats (White Croats being actually Ukrainians too)

[@sgolowka]

Don't be what u say... lalala

[@Mind_game7]

Thank you for this incredible interview. Thank you Lex for doing this.

[@fredm73]

from 2:43:00-2:47:00 in this interview: I was taken with S.P.'s way of expressing a very wise observation. Thanks, Lex, for once again helping us to understand the issues of the day by interviewing some of the most thoughtful folk on these topics.

[@orsisrutherford4705]

What Ukrainian culture?

[@kevinn1158]

I love videos like this. It gets into the details of history without the crazy hysteria that people seem to want to engage in. I actually wish this was longer.

[@Namuchat]

Yeah! Six hours of talk would be great, with both Lex and his interviewee falling asleep 😂

[@kevinn1158]

@@Namuchat haha. Yah, I forgot they aren't robots

[@5ty717]

Genius guest Lex. Love the way you draw the info out.

[@pofkiz]

maybe it's time to interview Timothy Snyder?

[@saida5290]

Thanks, Lex, for the awesome podcast episode, especially in these uncertain times. The guest was really inspiring, and I learned a lot about the nearby Slavic regions from the impressive historical insights shared.

[@mrblack5554]

This historian is very biased

[@TheMrKMen]

Очень интересный гость. И первый час беседы особенно классный. Но затем когда гость стал затрагивать более политизированную сторону истории, его ангажированность стало видно особенно сильно. Однако на эти темы говорить сложно без политических предрассудков, к сожалению. Некоторые люди умудряются спорить с политикой Римской республики. Хотя там непредвзятого намного меньше. Но классно, когда проблемы рассматриваются с разных точек зрения, и высказываются разные люди.

[@constantavogadro7823]

Lex put these Wikipedia citations on the screen (40:40), but he chickened out of actually asking Serhiy about those episodes, described there. This does not speak good of you, Lex. A typical propaganda trick.

[@shogun8-9]

One of the most important guests finally on the channel. Please read his books. Can’t wait for Timothy Snyder.

[@neilwieland2748]

At the 1:41 mark Serhii talks about Ukraine being a truly bilingual country. Could this also apply also in Slovakia? Not to quibble on a minor point, but I think many Slovaks can speak and understand Czech. But maybe they're closer linguistically than Russian and Ukrainian. I don't know. Perhaps someone can speak to this. Thank you for the interview. Very knowledgeable guest and Lex you always do great work as an interviewer.

[@gedrovitch]

I can tell you that linguistically, Ukrainian closer to Slovaks and Czechs languages, than to Russian.

[@CentralAnalytiX]

Many Ukrainians speak fluent Russian because they either had everyone around them speak Russian, or they had TV where most of the films and TV shows were in Russian, or both. But from my experience talking with Russians, they struggle to understand Ukrainian. If we look at vocabulary, Belarusian shares 84% of vocabulary, Polish 70%, Slovak 68%, Russian 62%.

[@rubeng160]

My guess is Czech and Slovakian are closer to each other than Russian and Ukrainian. If a Czech, visiting Bratislava, can understand Slovakian without previous exposure to the language then it is not the same thing as in Ukraine. Russians from Russia cannot understand Ukrainian. But Russian-speaking people from Ukraine do understand Ukrainian for most part. That's why it is not uncommon in Ukraine to have bilingual conversations expecting that the one person would easily understand what the other person says. And if, for example, a Russian-speaking person does not understand the Ukrainian-speaking person at all then it becomes clear that the first person is not from Ukraine. Because even if a Russian speaker has never spoken any Ukrianian, just by living in Ukraine he would have a decent passive knowledge of Ukrainian from the school, media, songs on the radio, just coming across people from different parts of Ukraine. So, Serhii explained it very accurately. Having at least passive knowledge of both Ukrainian and Russian is a marker that a person has lived in Ukraine for some time. But Czech and Slovakian are just much closer to each other, that's why if a person understands Slovakian it does not necessarily mean he is from Slovakia, maybe he is from the Czechia.

[@mado.madeleine]

I know 3 of these languages. Czech and Slovak are way more similar to each other than Russian and Ukrainian. Also, while a lot of Slovaks can actually speak Czech, Czechs might understand Slovak but they don't usually speak it. So yeah, you could say Slovakia is kinda bilingual (not officially though), but there are also plenty of bilingual (and even multilingual) countries in Africa and Asia.

[@lukebruce5234]

No it is not. Czech and Slovak are considered different languages for political reasons. In reality they are just dialects of one another. Ukrainian and Belorussian could be considered such but Russian is already significant enough and is a different language.

[@nicholasfrancoeur3897]

Lex, an incredibly empathetic man who sincerely seeks to understand that a point of view is just that, a view from one point. You’ve got to step away and try and try and look back to see as many as you can at once to get a full understanding, or to at least attempt to.

[@paulbadics3500]

Yes there were logistical problems & more resistance from ukrainians than expected but military analysts are clear there were not enough russian troops to take Kiev & would have been long drawn out & bloody for both sides especially civilians ..no way Putin was planning to force his way into such a large city opposed..only if govt surrendered which was his plan

[@azerty8866]

you are acting like russia isn't winning the war

[@Ast151]

@@azerty8866 of course, it is not winning. They have 2 trillion budget deficit and their National Security Fund is almost empty.

[@PUARockstar]

@@azerty8866 is it? Define winning for russia then.

[@pavelt5732]

There is no "kiev", it's Kyiv

[@ilya1421]

You're absolutely right about Kiev

[@dcb5176]

Plokhy leaves out a major period of Ukrainian history, which is the long period when the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth controlled what is now western Ukrainian, including the city of Lvov. During this period the Ukrainians were ruled by the Cossack hierarchy, which was allied with the the Polish gentry. Only in 1648 did the Cossacks revolt against Polish rule, principally because the Poles stopped paying the "registered" Cossacks. The result of the revolt was the division of the Ukraine between the Poles and Russians and for the next two hundred years the Ukrainians tried to maintain a balance between those two forces. The relationship between Poland and Ukraine is more complicated and has as much an impact on the current situation than does the Russian influence, which did not exist until the end of the 17th century.

[@feorh1919]

You should not look at this guy's direction for facts. He's comparing major western historical figures to Ukrainian guys - very poor comparisons.

[@WangMingGe]

You make a very good point. When people talk about "Ukraine has always been part of Russia" I think they must have got their history knowledge about eastern Europe from James Bond movies, where eastern Europe is basically all stereotypical Russia. But Russian influence is actually very recent in a lot of places. My family's home region, Ternopil, was Russian for only 47 consecutive years, 1944 to 1991, and also from 1939 September to 1941 June. It was not even the life of my grandmother or grandfather, who served in the war fighting AGAINST Russia. The city I currently live is much more Russified, but it was founded by Duke Algirdis of Lithuania in 1363. For 432 years it was Lithuanian-Polish. It was Russian for 122 years, 1795 to 1917, before becoming part of the independent UPR. Then of course, USSR for 70 and independent for 33. Yet there is a strange sense of seeing the Russian presence as legitimate, and disregarding the much deeper Polish-Lithuanian history. I agree, too with your assessment of "complicated." My great-grandfather was a military officer. We have photos of him in Austrian uniform in WW1 and he was a proud officer of the Habsrburg army. Then he joined the Polish Army and served in the Second Polish Republic, fighting against the Soviets, also as an officer. When the Russians occupied eastern Poland in 1939, they offered him a commission in the Red Army. He refused to ever serve Russians, in any capacity. His son, my grandfather, joined the Germans in WW2 to fight the Russians. So, it was complicated....Germans are against Poles; we will serve in the Polish army, but if it's Germans vs Russians we are siding with the Germans. By contrast, the situation with Russians is simple: the enemy. Doesn't matter if you are Austrian-Galicia, Polish-Second Republic, Germany, or independent Ukraine, Russia is the enemy. Never marry a Russian, never speak their language. Never serve them. Never trust them.

[@harbinger200]

Ukrainians where not a nation back then. It became a nation after ww2 when Soviet union established its borders and language. Communists in Soviet Union had an idea of "nation building". Little is known that Soviet Union created Macedonian grammar in 1945. They took Serb language and modified it to create Macedonian nation, same as they created Ukrainian.

[@WangMingGe]

Explain how my family has photos of our relatives involved in Ukrainian nationalist movements even in an era when our home region (Ternopil) had never yet been Russian. And explain how there are plenty of books, documents, famous poets or authors, etc. who spoke of a Ukrainian national identity even in the 1800s. The Soviet Union did not exist in the 1890s; ww2 had not yet happened in the 1910s and 20s. How is it there was a Ukrainian diaspora raising concern about the Holodomor and Soviet oppression in the early 1930s, 15 years before "after ww2", if it was all a post-ww2 creation of the USSR? Maybe go meet some actual Ukrainians, preferably elderly ones, and especially those who were not living in the USSR and could not have possibly been "created" by the Soviet Union, which certainly did not govern Austria and Poland, before the USSR even existed, nor did it govern Canada, Argentina, Brazil, all of which had people who were consciously of the Ukrainian nation, long before WW2. @@harbinger200

[@olenievart]

Delighted to listen to the talk. It seems to me that, closer to the beginning of the fourth hour of the talk, both gentlemen started to feel tired, especially Lex.

[@lidiachandler9665]

He even started stuttering when asked a question whether Bandera was an antisemitic. Of course he was and his comrades were. Also the officers of SS Galychyna were killing not just soldiers but civilians as well. Ukrainians who collaborated with Nazis were sometime even more vicious than Germans. I am from western Ukraine and I ve talked to many old people from both camps. Ukraine doesn’t have a neo nazi problem it has a problem of identification. One part of ucrania speaks Ukrainian and the other one speaks Russian and by declining them to have Russian as a second official language, shit hit the fan

[@Maratreason]

Absolutely right. It was these bans that destroyed Ukraine from the inside.

[@Leonel53795]

finally an adult at the room.

[@WangMingGe]

Really? You are from western Ukraine, when your channel's text is all in Russian and your location is listed in Russia. You mean, you are the daughter of Stalin's thugs who genocided the Ukraine and were sent as the occupation force once the USSR conquered western Ukraine. Your parents or grandparents having killed a bunch of Ukrainians doesn't make you Ukrainian.

[@TheCSClassroom]

I don't understand what your point about Bandera has to do with the language question in Ukraine. If you were actually from Ukraine, you would know that you can comfortably speak Russian in any part of Ukraine without a problem.

[@garyfox7558]

I've read Bandera's political manifesto, and while he was not very trusting toward jews, he certainly did not condone killing or deporting them. He acknowleged the presence of Jewish community in Ukraine and didn't mind it remaining that way. He did not fancy mixed marriages, though -- if I remember correctly. So it looks like his idea was a certain degree of separation, shall we say. That's what I remember. Whether antisemitic or not -- those views were certainly not nazi.

[@jjohns17]

I hope you have Henry Rollins as a guest. A conversation between you two would be fascinating given Henry's travels and humanitarian views.

[@IsntTheInternetGreat]

Question unrelated to the video: why do reactions often not get through, despite them not violating community guidelines? I have written a lot of reactions below the video and they just don't show up. It's highly frustrating.

[@Ali1961-b9s]

They do. Just keep scrolling😂

[@semicedevine6918]

I hosted 30-40 player diplomacy games for people back in 2014 where each player got to play as a country and roleplay modern geopolitics. I didn't understand at the time (was a kid), but someone told me it was very important to include Ukraine as a separate country from Russia. I split them up and gave Ukraine control of Romania and some Baltic states (every part of the world had to be owned by some player at game start, there were only 40 players maximum and previous game hosts had Ukraine and Russia together). I didn't realize at the time the geopolitical implications for what I did. All I knew was that I made someone happy and it meant a lot to me.

[@GarioTheRock]

It meant a very potent strategic advantage to the player who owned Ukraine! Since the time of the Thracian empire and before to the modern day, Ukraine is an extremely geographically important area of the world for transportation and commerce for the regions east of Europe with the entire West. Which means it is even more important when borders start moving.

[@RandomNooby]

Started watching this, 30 mins in I paused, read several works by, or about Pushkin, Tolstoy, Trotsky, Dostoevsky, and others. Now I am coming back to finish watching the rest of the video, with some context. Thanks Mr Friedman...

[@kcperception3895]

I appreciate a viewpoint that I don't necessarily buy in on. Thanks Lex.

[@alexanthony9856]

May I ask which information informs your dissent?

[@dwl3006]

@@alexanthony9856His opinions on Zelensky, Boris Johnson, and NATO are naïve to put it mildly. Boris Johnson acting independently of the United States? Give me a break! Even a janitor has more understanding of international relations. He can't imagine Zelensky taking orders? What a joke. And then he expects that Russia should have sent half of its forces to Finland in the middle of a war if it was really about NATO. So now this military genius thinks it's a good idea to open a two front war to prove that Russia is being genuine about its fears of NATO expansion. This guy shouldn't be working in a kindergarten let alone Harvard.

[@gregoryedwards9097]

Whole heartedly agree. Zelensky and Putin had a peace deal forming in Turkey in April 2022, confirmed by even Ukrainian diplomat Oleksandr forgot his last name even mentioned this in late 2023. The propaganda against Putin is so strong people don’t even realize it. When you actually look at what Putins words and actions are, you’ll see he has been far more consistent with his rhetoric than the collective West has been. To think NATO doesn’t play a part into this is like saying this world doesn’t have criminals or people who take advantage of situations. Each place has their own agenda, and the US is bent on maintaining hegemony because they have/ had the world reserve currency. They have more to lose than Russia and China combined, and they know this.

[@alexanthony9856]

I‘m curious, so you feel you are more qualified than this Harvard scholar to assess these matters. May I ask what sources you used for your assessment?

[@banalestorchid5814]

@@alexanthony9856 Well said, I suspect this person has been exclusively watching Tucker Carlson etc.

[@chrisattwood9588]

Get Alexander Mercouris on your podcast

[@WilkinsMichael]

Disbarred lawyer turned Russian propagandist? Nah.

[@rettro6578]

@@WilkinsMichaelAnd yet he has been more right on Ukraine war than NAFO trolls. Cope.

[@WilkinsMichael]

@@rettro6578 More like complete darkness. He is one of the lamest commentators ever. He even calls the war a "special military operation", barf. Has a lot of fascist warmongering fans of course.

[@chrisattwood9588]

@@WilkinsMichael But you're happy to listen to western propagandists in the media and governments. Nice to know you like your propaganda one sided

[@MisterVenden]

If there were 20 thousand ukrainians from Galizia in the SS, How can you claim that 3 million ”Ukrainians” were in the Red Army when we know that majority of that force was from the same eastern parts of Ukraine, fighting against nationalists like they do today? Do you realy mean that there were any ukrainian nationalists fighting against the SS Galizia or against german nazies? It would be fantastic to find some, that would be a big milestone in new history of Ukraine :)

[@bingflosby]

This is the real Ukrainian conversation

[@klausbinder9048]

This is a real Western Ukrainian conversation! This gentleman is constantly trying to whitewash Ukrainian history!

[@anikiforova]

Thank you for an interesting guest and a great interview. I have wanted to read one of his books for a while. But have never gotten to it.

[@dimapro]

Load of clap. go back to school

[@anikiforova]

@@dimapro judging by the language you are using, you either need to attend school yourself, or it's not very helpful 🤡

[@dimapro]

Glad you can identify yourself otherwise hard to see that you are a clown@@anikiforova

[@anikiforova]

@@dimapro I'm afraid you are projecting your issues onto others, dear.

[@TheWefikus]

@@dimaproda da Dima

[@UASheva]

Lex had to get someone from the other side to calm down the hate for Tucker

[@variable1a]

Exactly, to be fair he always tries to get both sides, so I’m not surprised after Tucker he had to seem unbiased etc

[@marcrolle4601]

Hmmmm...I'm half way through this sit-down and I am not getting any sort of pro ukraine side. Just simple academic history. And that's nice. Tucker is a man on the ground interview. This is a historian. More well informed content by coming from multiple angles. Much respect.

[@chimpskij]

@@marcrolle4601 He is lying all the time, sometimes outright, mostly by omission. It's most clear when Lex (very mildly) pushes back on NATO involvment etc.

[@TarasZakharchenko]

Wonderful! Listened for whole 3 hours

[@TETPochatok]

Thank you for the interview.

[@BoolatGuzairov]

Important thing about Ukrainian approach towards independence: None of major Ukrainian philosophers/thinkers/political figures (Mazepa, Khmelnitskiy, Taras Shevchenko, Grushevskiy etc) stated the independence as the national goal. They rather looked for more autonomy, but always under guidance of some big brother (Russia, Austria, Poland). The paradox is that based on Mr.Plokhii stated, Bandera was the only one person looking for it. The problem with it is that you can’t choose geography.

[@wisefull]

who told you this nonsense? who taught you that None of major Ukrainian philosophers/thinkers/political figures (Mazepa, Khmelnitskiy, Taras Shevchenko, Grushevskiy etc) stated the independence as the national goal. and that Mazepa, Khmelnitskiy, Taras Shevchenko, Grushevski are "major Ukrainian philosophers/thinkers/political figures " ?

[@BoolatGuzairov]

@@wisefull starts with all independent Ukrainian governments put those people’s names on the flag including Zelenskiy regime. Please provide arguments instead of reflection.

[@andriyandriychuk]

Father of Ukrainian nationalism is not Bandera but Mikhnovsky.

[@feorh1919]

@@wisefullYou should read what they write. And at least half of the guys you mentioned were medieval figures and cared zilch about the national freedom you speak of. Schevchenko was mostly a "go Ukrainians" guy. He was not an anti-Russian guy as a matter of fact.

[@ddd7386]

Another Russian nonsense. Stop lying

[@I.S.1226]

Lex, great work. Big support. Thank you.

[@chrisbremner8992]

Absolute crap, this guy is a paid liar.

[@mirage0301]

what you are doing is so, so, so important, !!! hugest thank you, !!! safe journeys, peace, !!! huge thank you, !!!

[@ясно-й6м]

I like the way he said about Yugoslavia falling apart....seems he omits important facts to tailor the history to his likes.

[@wc1937]

Yeah, the only mention of the US is that they "might have more n@zis", which honestly isn't even true from my anecdotal understanding. This dude dances around like a ballerina in a minefield.

[@manodirivera6703]

He has an obvious agenda. Wrong on so many accounts and nazi apologist to top if off.

[@cioccolateriaveneziana]

How exactly? I'm not opposing you, I'm genuinely asking.

[@wc1937]

@@cioccolateriaveneziana I had a comment earlier here that got deleted because they like to censor this stuff, which should speak for itself. But anyway, yes, he doesn't point out the provocations and NATO bombings and so on. He leaves a lot of inconvenient truths out of the conversation, and we all know why.

[@지훈이-v1x]

You should invite a guest to have a discussion on the birth rate crisis that is occuring in South Korea. The slow death of a society and finding out the reason behind it seems to me to be more urgent then an endless sequence on 'War' where the rest of humanity is left out from the discussion and political interest is the major driving force behind it

[@knobs_matrix]

Lovely interview 👋

[@omitter-q8d]

As a Ukrainian, i'd love to see you interview Zelensky. Even ask him complex questions as some of the viewers has already suggested here. I like the interviewer. The guy thinks, always tries to ask follow-up questions. Respect. Not browning-nose to you, just like the approach and the personality.

[@omitter-q8d]

The most admirable fact is that Lex never interrupts the person he's speaking with.

[@Gravitys-NOT-a-force]

There's a book titled 'Stepan Bandera: The Life and Afterlife of a Ukrainian Nationalist: Fascism, Genocide, and Cult' by Grzegorz Rossolinski-Liebe. Stepan Bandera in Rossolinski-Liebe's book isn't quite the innocent, detached, non-participant that Mr. Plokhy paints in your interview, Lex. Why did the Soviet Union send an assassin to kill Bandera in 1959, 14 years after World War ll was over? The Russians claim that the people buried at Babyn Yar are simply Soviet citizens murdered by the Germans, NOT Jews. According to Rossolinski-Liebe's book there were NO Jews left in Ukraine at the end of World War ll - and that Stepan Bandera's OUN-B played a big part in that unfortunate fact. Professor Plokhy's view certainly isn't the only one regarding Stepan Bandera and the OUN-B.

[@dominicgibson8477]

In 2017 I stayed in a Jewish accommodation facility halfway between Kiev and Odessa. It was a Friday night and they were gearing up for their Sabbath. Oddly they served Jack Daniels with dinner

[@kabanenko5319]

Ukraine got awful massacre with polish people during WW2. So Bandera being is pretty negative for Poland historians. No one disagree that OUN members killed a lot of polish people and members of Krajowa Army killed a lot of ukrainians. But presenting reasoning and justifying invasion into country because of naming street in the name of Bandera is working only for morons

[@WojciechDobosz]

Mr. Plokhy is quite biased, especially when discussing Bandera, and the extent of Ukrainian collaboration with Nazis, which went much deeper, he is completely omitting the role Ukraine took in actively participating in genocide of hundreds of thousands of Jewish and other peoples in an effort of ethnic cleansing, and by so doing he is no better than the Soviet propagandists who for decades, concealed and minimized the atrocities Russia committed against Ukraine and other countries. I think @lexfridman falls short in calling that out. Since you strive for constant improvement Lex, here's my feedback to you.

[@TranscenGopher]

An interviewer is not required to constantly challenge whatever his guests are saying. If you do that as an interviewer, you essentially present your worldview to the audience instead of trying to bring your guest's worldview. Yes, the guest has biases, he's human. This is not a debate, and he's allowed to simply state his point without much of a challenge, warts and all.

[@cclark1273]

Thank you for this video. I watched it all the way through and it was. Very informative

[@Maria_Makr]

I couldn't imagine that Harvard has so poor expertise. This guy even hasn't mentioned Novgorod, he has no idea about real geography of Ancient Rus. It is shameful, indeed

[@Володимир-б9т]

Oh, so you have a professor degree in history, right?

[@nialkhabi5234]

Lex, it was another great podcast. When will you be interviewing Serhii Horoshiy?

[@daco7612]

Why would you use that as a opening clip?

[@eSKaaMedia]

Probably because this clip best fits the russian narrative of portraying Ukrainians as nazis.

[@swimdude65]

Best podcast I ever heard Thank you.

[@rettaroo5972]

Wonderful and timely guest! Lex I noticed the essential water on the desk. Since they aren’t listed in your sponsors, I thought I would comment on this product. It was my water of choice for nearly a year before, realizing my health began to deteriorate. I couldn’t get enough of this clean cold, delicious tasting water. but the high alkalinity caused Gerd and dysfunction of my gallbladder. With no other interventions, I ceased drinking the water and all of the symptoms, the burning in my throat. The indigestion, and the pain in my gallbladder went away. I did some research online and learned that, although it sounds counterintuitive, too much alkalinity in the stomach is not good for digestion. So many of these new fad health waters are anything but healthy.

[@TomMcinerney-g9b]

It's said that our guts become less acidic with age, which is why supplementation of vitamin B12 becomes useful.

[@emrage]

Here's a thought why don't you just drink normal water that's filtered and have your vitamins from food and supplements?

[@ivavasadze7503]

At 1:15:31 he says Komsomol leaders (Soviet youth political organization), not council leaders, 1:15:47 - indistinct word here is Politburo, and at 1:16:07 is mentioned Brezhnev, not Beria (Beria is long gone by that time). 1:16:14 - in foreign language he means Siloviki, which is Russian umbrella term for military, security, and police state organizations.

[@denisgut]

It's fascinating how this man can teach people in Harvard with such a level of knowledge 😂

[@genieinthebottle64]

Very interesting guest! thank you!

[@valeriasergeeva6599]

Великолепный выпуск! Огромное спасибо🙏🏼 привет из Москвы 💔

[@petrometr]

да прекрасное интервью ангажированного "никого", мягко говоря

[@olyiaamimkho988]

This was brilliant, thank you so much!

[@scottb7347]

thanks for this

[@BartyOni]

incredibly good interview!

[@AnthonyGTrees]

This is epic. First time I’ve heard either of these individuals. Fantastic information. Thanks

[@jonascampos1895]

Amazing topic, and interview

[@kiton1890]

Thank you very much for the video from Odesa, Ukraine

[@ВалентинаАртеменко-я5ф]

🩵💛

[@Early1000]

Strange omissions including no mention of Novgorod (predating Kiev, Vladimir and Moscow).

[@AnnReason]

💯

[@manuelgonzales2570]

Excellent interview! Thank you!

[@illz47]

Serhii Plokhyy is a G for this

[@aloha5527]

He's surname is Bad.

[@nimmha6708]

@@aloha5527 Like you, trying this language out for the first time in life?

[@mikekolyshkin3931]

Many thanks, Lex! ❤ It was an interesting and meaningful conversation, especially in comparison with Tucker's chatter-box show.

[@Gurbeable]

Be carefull, Tucker is a Jesus-like figure for many people.

[@sergeypashenko3]

One question - where is the USA during these turbulent times???

[@boycotte]

🤫

[@nyoodmono4681]

Pulling strings

[@Thisisahandle701]

The US less focused on Ukraine than Russia, Russia was pulling the strings

[@Madtwins]

Thank you for inviting Serhii Plokhy and giving platform to Ukrainian voice !

[@Deadpoolion]

What an amazing coincidence that several years before Yushchenko became president, he married an American who had previously worked for the White House. And when he became president (of course, without the help of the White House), he immediately wanted to join NATO. By the way, the same thing happened with the President of Georgia, who was also married to an American and wanted to join NATO. There are so many coincidences in life

[@rcher8051]

One small lie detected. Georgian President wife was Dutch. One small lie - no trust anymore.

[@Hussarianbrother]

Pu$$y does strange things to men. Murdoch CEO of fox has a Russian wife and they love Russia. Theres a couple other Jackson Crawford the "journalist" has one too.

[@scammicus7110]

Another great interview Lex, my thanks to you both for the time invested in having such an in depth discussion to share with us.

[@milospopovic4878]

Taking with a grain of salt ofc, same for the Putin's history lesson with Tucker. However, these interviews are important because we get to listen more sides of the same story and that's the only way of developing an unbiased oppinion.

[@cioccolateriaveneziana]

It's quite a difference if history is told by a historian or by a dictator who misuses history for his exploits.

[@WangMingGe]

Good point. @@cioccolateriaveneziana

[@earthandwind820]

@@cioccolateriavenezianaDictators telling history is bad, but that doesn’t mean “historians” (from anywhere) can’t have biases and also engage in historical revisionism.

[@johnkeyes630]

Lex, you are an incredible interviewer. Well done..

[@peterhawryluk8430]

Thank you both for a informed conversation. Taras Shencko was finnally mentioned in the independence for Ukraine. We had his picture on our wall and in every Ukrainian household I've ever been in. I would always hear Shachenko said ...

[@JohnSmith-px5nf]

“Ukrainian” writer who lived and worked in St Petersburg, Russia lol

[@PolyakovAlexei]

you mean Shevchenko?

[@thanksmark]

@@JohnSmith-px5nf what a moronic answer

[@janebofelt]

Произведения Тараса Шевченко изучают во всех российских школах в курсе литературы в 7 классе, просто для информации.

[@JustAsPlanned1]

@@janebofelt Русскую классику изучают в украинских школах тоже, кстати.

[@Joseph-xt2qg]

Does his last name literally translate as "bad"? (I know погано is "bad" in Ukrainian, but плохії means that as well (or "the bad ones" according to Google translate))

[@wesleydynna8411]

Great podcast. Thank you for the wealth of knowledge.

[@donnamariebock4094]

Thank you for interviewing this fine scholar.

[@a.s.etaboo8769]

You mentioned the "Russian Hand" in the Donbass , But you failed to mention the "American Hand" at the Maidan

[@Mariupol_is_Ukraine]

He didn’t mention what wasn’t there. Quite logical.

[@a.s.etaboo8769]

Victoria Nuland bragged about the US involvement. You silly Ukrop

[@Mariupol_is_Ukraine]

@@a.s.etaboo8769 Sad for you that Ukrainians where standing on Maidan, not Americans.

[@StratusBlue]

@@Mariupol_is_Ukraine you are a liar.

[@Mariupol_is_Ukraine]

@@StratusBlue I hear a strong russian accent in your words.

[@timamet]

This is good one

[@Beogrrr]

He is very wrong about the nature or Solzhenitsyn's argument. In Gulag archipelago, he even admired the Ukrainian prisoners (who were there for collaboration with Germans) for their bravery to rebel against the camp conditions. He said that Ukrainians basically eradicated the ratting out practice, by silently killing the people ratting out to the authorities. After a while, nobody was willing to tell on others. Solzhenitsyn is much more deep than what Serhii gives him credit to.

[@yurilytviak9066]

Solzhenitsyn was a rushin chauvinist who limited ‘Ukraine’ to Galicia . Basically what the contemporary fascists in moscow have conceded .

[@yuriysymczyk3334]

Thank you for this discussion 🇺🇦

[@joeytranchina8839]

Encouraging to hear a scholarly discussion, that is focused on expanding our understanding of this situation. The visible thoughtfulness of Serhii Plokhy's personality and presentation that makes his words trustworthy. With the stakes & the pain-level so high in Ukraine, to feel educated rather than propagandized after listening to a discussion, is an achievement. Thank you. The Bolsheviks "arrested the development of the religion and thinking and theology." to fix it in pre 1917 imperialism. I have struggled to a way to come to grips with at force in Russian politics. Again, thank you. The podcast is so much more useful than a lecture because I can replay the parts I really need to hear, to let them slink in. Again, thank you. "NATO wa a big part of the Russian justification for the war, The truth is..." "The immediate goal was to stop the drift of the Ukraine to he West..." YES, except it was more than a "drift" it was a march toward a better future. Putin's Russia represents nothing but rot.

[@QuiltedLily]

Thank you Lex and Serhil Plokhy for the historical review.

[@dmitriytupikov1127]

What a great interview

[@valeriiaiermolenko981]

Amazing Interview. Thank you

[@Nope-w2h]

The no like. Button is for protecting people like him

[@joe_B12]

Skipping main part? What was Nuland doing there? This is talk for children, any objective person can see what happened there.

[@בוריסגודונוב-ו9ד]

Exactly! he complains about the influence that Russia impose on Ukraine. but he don't mention the influence of the US on Ukraine.

[@terzija1]

Aleksandar, congratulations for questions asked, as well as a very calm manner of interviewing respected Ukrainian Professor. Both of you have a nice Slavic accent and I am happy that you are not hiding it. It would be interesting if your interviewee would be in a debate in which slightly different opinions would be on the table. However, the Ukrainian Professor delivered his version of the truth. Another dimension which I want to stress is that this horrible conflict had to be avoided, because Slavic people are killing Slavic people. Let us talk about the outcome of this conflict in a couple of years, hoping that in the meantime the entire Europe will not be already totally destroyed, or burning. Actually, I like the patriotic segments of the speech of your interviewee.

[@chris-2496]

What this war shows is that values and sense of identity are more important to people than ethnicity and that's where putin miscalculated in launching his full scale attack in 2022 trusting his intelligence that russia's efforts to buy off the play-makers in Ukraine will be enough to prevent serious military opposition.

[@18_rabbit]

it's hyperbolic anti-historical-knowledge nonsense to fear that entire Europe could be totally destroyed/burning in the medium/long term, let alone your 'couple of years'. Have u read any texts on the European History? Or 20th century history? Thorough goings over takes weeks of time, intesnsively allday long, to do so.

[@gerdar]

I absolutely loved the podcast. Serhii is a very intelligent and an interesting person to talk and listen to. I love how he keeps to be neutral and professional when talking about Ukraine and Russia even though he comes from Ukraine.

[@alexgoler7617]

LexGPT twisting himself into knots trying to help rewrite history. Good job 👍

[@MariuszCzechowski-y7h]

I wish you asked him about Wołyń and Babi Jar. Just wondering how he would explain this.

[@nevermind6900]

Mariusz Czechowski joined KZbin on 12-March-2024... Perhaps that explains it all, bot

[@MariuszCzechowski-y7h]

@@nevermind6900 I listened to many podcasts over the years on youtube, but this struck a nerve with me. I lived amongst people who escaped the massacres at Wolyn, maybe Harvard professor should interview them. I dont think anyone should edit history so it suits their feelings or narrative. BOT haha.

[@nevermind6900]

@@MariuszCzechowski-y7h "I lived amongst people who escaped the massacres at Wolyn"... Just for your information, Wolyn happened 80 years ago. Not asking how old you or your neighbours are, bot

[@MariuszCzechowski-y7h]

@@nevermind6900 First. When I was around 20, they was around 60. Second, Wolyn and Babi Yar happened and no one can deny it, and the Harvard professor did not mention it, unless I missed it so please show me where. I think that knowledge is helpful in putting light on UPA and Bandera ideology. Lastly, I am Polish and because of Katyn, I am no friend of Russia. Czyli bywaj i zostaw mnie w spokoju.

[@nevermind6900]

@@MariuszCzechowski-y7h Lex was fact-checking on Russian propaganda myths. Wolyn and Operation Vistula both happened and were both tragedies. They require all possible mentions, they were just out of context of the interview. Babiy Jar in Kyiv was executed by nazi SS; it is literally nothing to do with UPA. It is the same absurdity as blaming Armia Krajowa for the Warsaw Ghetto performed by nazi SS, simply because Warsaw is Poland.

[@ivanhaidarli4378]

Finally historian who know what he is talking about, because his focus is Eastern Europe. Not clowns paid by Russia.

[@romannikiforov7651]

He's focused on modern Ukraine only. Clown paid by Zelensky

[@star-gs9kh]

He is saying nonsense

[@PatriotParty]

You misspelled clowns paid by America lol also you clearly didn't listen to Putins interview with Tucker because this dudes saying the same thing just in a much longer and more detailed format. . . You're really showing your ass dude.

[@PatriotParty]

o.0 cia bott 👆

[@alexanderkalinchenko4038]

Right u r, buddy. This clown is paid by the West. You've cracked the case

[@RuthKirkpatrick]

Amazing historical talk, for learning from experts, and how your own personal perspective from family history played into the conversation. I'm new to your podcasts, but avidly watching them now. Thank you.

[@_JustClipped]

Lex interviewing Vitali Klitschko would be phenomenal. Usyk would also be great

[@protagorasfromabdera8653]

Both of them are terrible speakers.