Sermon: Is Baptism The Fulfillment of Circumcision - Colossians 2

[@ApologiaStudios]

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[@princesskaren78]

This teachings are a blessing to my heart. My LSD husband watches them with me and we talk about the points but since I don’t know how to express myself with this clarity not do I have the knowledge of the doctrine. Dr. White is such an incredible instrument of God. For Latin America people these are an amazing source for understanding and teaching. Thank you

[@5SolasBrad]

I had a good chuckle on this one. I know you meant to say LDS and not LSD. Because if he was on LSD, he has other things going through his head, and it’s not the Holy Spirit. But that is great that you are watching them together. I pray the Lord is continuing to draw him out of Mormonism to faith in the true Jesus.

[@Biblecia]

So honored I got to be there tonight! What a blessing. The whole time. The songs, the message, the prayers, the Table. Wonderful time.

[@ayo1642]

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[@ETHANGELIST]

Thank you for the beautiful preaching of the gospel. I agree with Dr. White that the circumcision in Colossians 2 is spiritual circumcision i.e. regeneration. The spiritual circumcision corresponds to spiritual baptism. Conversion and union with Christ. Both are the same and both are signified by water baptism. Presbyterians simply point out that the spiritual significance/essence of either physical circumcision or baptism are the SAME therefore there IS a fulfillment and continuity from OT circumcision to NT baptism. There are so many parallels between circumcision and baptism in the Bible; signifying regeneration being the main one (e.g. Deut. 10:16). It feels Dr. White didn't address the main issues and arguments about circumcision. I'm surprised he concluded that baptism is not a fulfillment of circumcision when he and other Baptists see it as the New Covenant sign. I would've thought he would say yes to the question of this sermon, but lower the continuity of the sign of baptism from circumcision.

[@robertlewis6915]

He stated that the NC sign is regeneration, not baptism. Which I don't quite see as workable, given it makes the 'sign' of the covenant... intangible and invisible.

[@robertlewis6915]

@Scribeintheink Thanks for the clarification; that really helps.

[@chrissteinke5535]

My mom come to your church and encouraged me to watch this sermon. Thanks for the amazing teaching brothers.

[@douglasmcnay644]

That ending was very powerful.

[@simeoncrow3176]

Agreed!

[@siebenboy]

The last ten minutes of this video are some of Dr White's finest -- and most pastoral -- moments.

[@williewiner4161]

Praise God praise God! Yes all my debt was paid and I am so unworthy of such a loving God. Thanks Dr White so loved how you explained that verse in Romans!

[@Eric_Lichtenberg]

Beautiful! The finished work of our Savior is awesome!

[@КлюевСергей-э5с]

Hurray!!! Last 6 minutes explained to me what are we to do after regeneration!! Because I remember that “fence” of sin falling away and light and love flowing out of my heart. And I was like “so, am I allowed to just go ahead and act without asking permission from the outer darkness no more?” Answer: Of course I am! There is no higher authority than Christ!

[@mordecaialivanallenoshea7532]

That Cosby sweater kicks butt!

[@tpearce713]

58:15 so circumcision only became a sign of regeneration in the new covenant? Why does Moses talk about circumcision of the heart in Deuteronomy 30:6?

[@MDH_Sports]

Beautiful sermon.

[@mikerod5656]

This sermon would be welcomed at a Church of Christ because this is what we believe but is often misrepresented!

[@JasonLeonPike]

Our Father, thank you for your truth and for this brother’s faithfulness in presenting it. Receive all the glory. In Christ.

[@zacdredge3859]

1:06:42 This actually is such an important exhortation. I'm still struggling in my sin so it's all I have, I can't do it, I need Christ. Blessings. 👍

[@nathanfoust7989]

LOVE IT! Love these brothers!

[@adamcarmichaelsr.9488]

Thank you for this, actually refuting a Church of Christ that said the law was nailed to the cross. Had a debate with him, but I will address this verse in a debate review today. Enjoy your ability to exegete Scripture Dr. White.

[@dogescout5868]

Very powerful and convicting message, Dr. White. Thank the Lord for speaking His wisdom through His Word.

[@jabberjaw1067]

I don't believe there are any "laws" that transposed themselves to "walking in the spirit" to include circumcision, which is now of the heart. The outward circumcision is of no value. But, you must be baptised in water and spirit.

[@jacs500]

Amen! Well said, brother!

[@savedbygrace7982]

@@jacs500 circumcision was always supposed to be a sign of the inward spiritual state. All through the Old Testament the Israelites were commanded to circumcise their hearts. It’s not new in the New Testament. The earliest time I can think of is Deuteronomy. But there is also Jeremiah and many others.

[@NicholasproclaimerofMessiah]

My understanding is that submersion is the fulfillment of circumcision, in that circumcision shadowed the casting away of sins at the new birth, for the sons who, for being sons, are also heirs. Now the shadows have come to their heavenly truth, which truth, in this case, is the new birth itself, which is declared in the ceremony of submersion, being that the new birth has truly transpired. To perform the ceremony in accordance with being born of flesh into a Christian family, makes submersion to be a mere shadow, in which case it is not the fulfillment of circumcision. I say "mere shadow", because the whole purpose of circumcision upon the eighth day following the flesh birth into the earthly nation of Israel was to shadow our spiritual birth into the Heavenly Israel (all true believers of all of time), but if we baptize upon the eighth day then we again attach the ceremony to fleshly birth into an earth family, whereas if we baptize upon spiritual birth into our heavenly family then we attach the ceremony to the spiritual fulfillment which had been being shadowed in the correlation to mere fleshly birth. Therefore, as I understand it, baptists are consistent with baptism being the fulfillment of circumcision, whereas pedobaptists are consistent with baptism being another mere shadow rather than a fulfillment.

[@lincolnisrael1634]

Please upload your content to Rumble also. #Rumbleupload

[@vdma8307]

The vast majority of the early church understood baptism to be God’s gift of saving grace. Not to mention Peter flat out saying in Acts 2:38 that “baptism now saves you.” I’m very thankful for the ministry of Apologia, I actually got saved out of Mormonism years back from hearing Jeff. But the Baptist understanding of baptism is very, very new. Not to mention unbiblical.

[@mr400meter]

Yeeeaaah, no. ;-)

[@AlexanderLongacre182]

I would say Baptist baptism is correct for new believers, but their children should be baptized since they are in the covenant community… like the Esau and Ishmael were. I believe in the continuity in the covenant community.

[@Biblecia]

Keep drawing near to Christ.

[@mr400meter]

@@AlexanderLongacre182 Would you agree that circumcising a child before or after 8 days was sin?

[@shilohplatt789]

@@AlexanderLongacre182 Continuity is not a biblical concept. Paedobaptists are inconsequent in their nature because they do not define the New Covenant with scriptual interpretation (Scriptura Scripturae interpres) but rather by an unbiblical standard.

[@4evamobbin534]

As someone working through these issues, I was confused at the end. The sermon seemed to be on baptism not being the fulfillment of circumcision, pointing out the error of our presbyterian brothers. Then at the end you mentioned things like trading our salvation through Christ for a treadmill of works. Were you talking about Presbyterians? They certainly dont do that. They do as you mentioned you also do, obey out of new desires from a new heart. They do good works because they love God. Now the question is, what are those good works? To the Presbyterians those can be proper forms of worship and baptism. Not trading grace for a treadmill of works. Then at the very end you made jabs at Arminians but what does that have to do with the sermon? Seems you concluded improperly. Now if we grant Presbyterians are seeking to worship God rightly and they are convicted that they are indeed doing that, by infant baptism, they should be taken more seriously. How do we determine what manner of life we live and order of worship we engage in to the Glory of God as new creatures in Christ. On that note I will be exploring the texts you mentioned seeking to draw out of the proper context. I’m in the middle but there’s so much to consider and a lot of work to do to make an informed decision.

[@PilgrimNinja]

Is there any reason a Believer should avoid qigong for health? I cannot practice high impact exercises any more.

[@miyukisisson6444]

Look into the origins and purpose of the practice.

[@DarthLightbender]

There other therapeutic options that can help without having to amputate the prepuce. I hope you find a solution that keeps you whole.

[@robertlewis6915]

49:00 He's wrong about how to connect the sacraments. Circumcision and baptism both represent regeneration. Neither ritual accomplishes it. Circumcision fulfils the same role as baptism. (and the Hebrews point requires careful distinction between the internal and external covenant)

[@robertlewis6915]

@Scribeintheink Romans 2:29 and Jeremiah 9:25, among others, indicate an association between circumcision and regeneration.

[@Kurt2222]

What does James White mean when he refers to Acts 2:38? Because that's how's sins are first forgiven, not before. Romans 6:3-4 and Galatians 3:27 shows baptism is how one gets "into" Christ. That's is how the phrase "calling on the name of the Lord" actually occurs according to Greek grammer in Acts 22:16. Many Baptists that I know and have family members that are southern Baptist and grace Baptist, they usually claim salvation occurs before baptism but that's clearly not so. God wouldn't give arbitrary commands, have thousands of believing people submit to something that is just nothing more than a badge of participation after the fact. That's dishonoring God by thinking He gives worthless commands that have no importance to soul salvation. I know James White is reformed Baptist but I don't know much about.

[@simeoncrow3176]

Amazing message, DJW 👏👏👏 thank you for being so thorough in explaining both the ground and implications of these things.

[@mikerod5656]

Then he lost me with his final remarks. We dont believe we (CoC) can do anything to earn our salvation, and agree Jesus is the full focus and the one doing all the action with us completely passive, but consider this:My saved by belief only friends, would you say to this man that he should not have washed the mud off his eyes in the pool of Siloam because it was a work? Or was he able to see again because he obeyed Jesus and received the free gift of sight? Have any of the apostles said a prayer with someone in any page of the bible and claim that if you pray with them you would be saved? We have a world where today you can sit in front of a T.V. and since preachers are preaching just believe, then they think, "that's it, I'm a Christian now!" Now ask yourself honestly if you believe in Sola Scriptura if that holds weight? We are justified by our belief yes, 100%, yet we also need to obey Jesus command to be disciples believe and be baptized in repentance and receive the promise of forgiveness of sins just as the blind man went to the pool of Siloam with nothing to offer as a 'work' but washing his eyes!

[@4evamobbin534]

You are justified by belief. Thats it. Abraham believed and it was counted to him as righteousness. He was saved before he even did anything. Before he bore fruit from that faith he was saved. The evidence that his faith was real, is that it bore fruit(obedience). Obedience adds nothing to our salvation. We would say you’re saved by faith alone, not a faith that is alone. The blind man had faith that his sight was restored before he moved his hands demonstrating that faith. His sight was already restored before wiping his eyes.

[@michaelpoapst9465]

If it is, why do we baptize females ???

[@oracleoftroy]

I would answer: because there is always a widening of the application of the promise, never a contraction. For example, we see the chosen nation being through Isaac, but widened to every tongue, tribe and nation in the NT. The promised land is widened from Israel to the whole earth. And the sign of covenant membership was males and widened to male and female. In fact, I find it really odd to suppose that the Hebrews had thousands of years of tradition regarding the inclusion of their whole household, including their children, in the covenant; but all of a sudden, without any fuss or even Biblical instruction, they all instantly knew that their babies were no longer to receive the covenant sign? We know how big a deal other changes were in the early days of the church regarding kosher laws and circumcision, yet this incredibly major change went through without any mention at all? It seems far more likely that the practice of applying the covenant sign to households established back in Gen 17 was to continue, hence why Peter referenced the Abrahamic practice in Acts 2 and why the apostles gave the sign to households rather than individuals throughout Acts.

[@kylestaack38]

Sorry friend in acts two .. Peter was saying in repentance and baptism for the gift of the Holy Spirit. Was for them and there children as salvation ..not meaning there household was automatically in the new covenant of grace.. Grace alone, faith alone, Christ alone . Paul makes it clear.. Not of works or heritage Amen 🙏

[@MrVyrtuoso]

I'll listen to the sermon but right now I'd have to say the answer is no because of what is signified by the two. The immediate reality that circumcision signified was one's covenant membership to Israel in which circumcision and later on at Sinai the Law were the covenant stipulations, having a secondary spiritual significance that the heart was still in need of circumcising but had yet to have that circumcision. Being baptized is a ceremonial rite that signifies that the one who is baptized had already undergone the spiritual circumcision of the heart in regeneration. Based on these differences, baptism is an entirely different sign that points to conversion as the present reality of the person being baptized, and it's that reality that is the fulfillment of that to which circumcision pointed, which is that the one whose heart that needs circumcising has now been circumcised.

[@mchristr]

Are you meaning a public profession of faith? Neither an 8 day-old Jewish boy, nor an infant of Christian parents, are able to demonstrate their inclusion in the Covenant. Conversely, how many people do we know who have answered the alter call, been publicly baptized, and have subsequently fallen away?

[@JimL2883]

Please donate to Apologia so they can afford a nursery for those crying babies.

[@robertmcvicar5824]

Not a single scripture for this unreformed practice. Ex Arminian Calvinst Sovereign Grace Baptist.

[@AndwB]

Baptism now saves you. 1 Peter 3:21

[@dittoman1995]

Not the removal of dirt but the.....fill in the blank

[@AndwB]

Every single early church father associated John 3:5 being born again to being baptized. Facts

[@tdosoldier]

EGGcellent...! >

[@ReformedBrant]

The acceptance of paedobaptism is the rejection of all the solas.

[@johnking9161]

You are not a Calvinist you are a anabaptist.

[@ReformedBrant]

@@johnking9161 I had a misunderstanding of paedobaptism and have changed my view. However you don’t seem to understand what Calvinist and anabaptist mean.

[@johnking9161]

@@ReformedBrant I’m glad to hear that you have changed your mind! Congratulations. Since you have changed your mind about paedobaptism and now agree that your first statement was false and radical, just like the anabaptists were.

[@ReformedBrant]

@@johnking9161 on this we can agree sir!

[@berglen100]

Saying or thinking I AM makes you Jesus, Your funny, classic first Adam. God and his name is I AM! When you point to another as an authority in your world, you are transferring the power that belongs to God to an idol. Now, if you call for anything with the name of God, and his name is I AM, and you say I AM . . are you not your own maker? God is, for I AM! I kill and I make alive, I wound and I heal. I create the light and I form the darkness and besides me there is no other God. Whatever I want, I must assume the full responsibility for it. If I want to conjure health and the doctors tell me I cannot overcome my illness and I believe them, I have made my choice and must accept the responsibility for it. But if I dare to assume health, God is proclaiming it, for he has no name other than I AM! This is the grand revelation found in the third chapter, the 14th verse, of Exodus. “Go and tell them `I AM has sent me to you.’ “Whatever you declare, is; for God’s name is any form of the verb to be, whether it is I AM, I was, or I will be.

[@chrispark5570]

You are an absolute heretic. You are not God, for that is the lie of the Serpent. The I AM was not Moses, neither was He a divine essence native to Moses; read the rest of the text. "It is written, thou shalt worship The LORD thy God, and serve Him only." He had demands upon the people of God that did not come from themselves. Hence the fire and billows of smoke, the glory of God passing by Moses. You are a liar, "sent to spy out our liberty in Christ."

[@FBCTrona]

How can he have our name written on His hand if Salvation is open to all???? Simple White, He is the Omniscient God, He has Foreknowledge.... very simple. God actually knows who will get saved, and He has elected every individual that will be saved to be like His Son. This is not rocket science. Other than that by the way, a great video, and great teaching.

[@Texasguy316]

Baptist stand alone with this viewpoint. It’s unbiblical. Kind of sad a that essentially one denomination is keeping the body of Christ divided. And I believe at this point it’s pride. We all have pride, but this is a pure example of it.

[@Tatersthezebra88]

Presbyterians and reformed baptists have unity in Christ. We believe the sacrament of baptism is taken differently. We believe in the same gospel... unlike our roman catholic neighbors. The body is not divided in opposition, we love our presby bretheren. Maybe its you that pridefully assumes that we are somehow cut off from each other.

[@haileyosborn2781]

I’m so disappointed. I tried your church last night for the first time. I was really hoping that my family finally found a home after looking for 10 years. I spent months feeding my knowledge with your videos, Jeff, and this was one of the worst experiences. I asked questions about the child care thing. They explained they believe the children need to sit in service with their families and learn to sit still so they don’t get a watered down verse. Great. Well there were numerous parents distracted with their children, including me, that never heard the message. I came to be fed and left crying. I have a husband that doesn’t believe yet and found an opportunity to run when our oldest wouldn’t sit still. They also mention John Calvin just as much as a Mormon mentions Joseph smith. Super sad because I loved the videos. Most of them and I had the worst experience. Felt very cultish. I follow no one but Jesus as God.

[@haileyosborn2781]

Version*. Listen, if the parents aren’t being fed and learning, the family won’t be fed. Especially a family that isn’t united in Christ. I brought my husband to sit with me and listen, he shouldn’t have left but even I left because of our kids. I’m honestly upset. I cried because I have been searching for a church that helps with the kids and feeds the family with true biblical knowledge. This is why I don’t have a church I turn to and read my Bible alone. I feel more alone in my faith than ever.

[@dustinnyblom7835]

@@haileyosborn2781 I’m sorry that you had a horrible experience and that there were a lot of distractions while you were there. However, I think that having children in the service, which incredibly difficult at times, and may be hard to focus, I think that the fact that they catechize the children at many services is really important. I also think that if your husband was using that as an excuse to leave, that the issue is obviously far deeper than just kids being obnoxious. I think you should try it again, continue to try, trust that if your husband is elect that he will come up Christ. That’s all that can be expected of any of us. Don’t give up hailey!

[@JasonStephens7]

Don’t give up so quickly. This is a regular struggle for many Christian families but usually people are patient and understanding in the service. We need the local church. Also, I’m pretty sure no one there worships any man besides Jesus Christ.

[@haileyosborn2781]

@@dustinnyblom7835 yes. It is deeper. That’s the point. I am not a Calvinist. The only thing I think about that statement is that God knows who will or won’t turn to him. I wish I could even touch on how weird I feel after going to this church I had such high hopes for. This is just not the church for me. I love listening to Jeff but I won’t attend and I’m definitely listing with a very discerning mind. I have never walked out of a service and not returned till yesterday.

[@haileyosborn2781]

@@JasonStephens7 well they do, everyday. I don’t want to hear about John Calvin and I don’t ever want to be labeled anything but a disciple. I have had a hard time finding a church body my entire life. I’ve never felt as discouraged as I do now. I left in tears. Lol. I’m a tough, do it myself woman so it’s very much a shock that I felt this way. I felt the exact way I felt as a kid going into a Catholic or Mormon service. Very uneasy.

[@markwhite5926]

No Calvinistic evangelist, preaching to the lost can EVER truly say "Christ died for you because His great love for you" because of the doctrine of LIMITED ATTONMENT (particular redemption is a nicer sounding title for the same doctrine) that makes you gospel completely ingenious! It also makes God an absolute liar, Jesus who is the eternally blessed God said "for God so loved the world, the word cosmos... not electos🤥

[@skyred2]

That's not something I've ever been compelled to say to an unbeliever. I consider it more valuable that they know their true condition as an unbeliever, that they are always one heartbeat away from eternal judgement.

[@markwhite5926]

@@skyred2 I agree, but God's motivation in the redemption of the lost is not solely for His own Glory, the Scripture teaches He truly loves the world. And according to Calvin's Theology God NEVER wanted to redeem most of created humanity anyway... they were created to be objects of His eternal wrath!

[@ElijahBRogers]

If you go to John 11:51-52, where he is addressing the same issue of the death of Jesus and the extent of it, here is what Caiaphas, who is speaking prophetically, says. And John reports it: Jesus would die “not for the nation only” - that is the Jews only - “but also . . .” Now, just pause there and hear the similarity. In 1 John 2:2, “He is the propitiation, not for our sins only, but also.” And here in John 11:52, Jesus would die “not for the nation only, but also.” And then instead of saying for the whole world or whatever, he says “but also to gather into one the children of God who are scattered abroad.” So, not for the nation only will he die. He will die to gather into one the children of God that are scattered abroad. That means the death of Jesus procures, obtains, gathers in, receives, accomplishes the ingathering of God’s elect, the scattered children of God all over the world. He is blessing the whole world by obtaining people from every tribe and tongue and people and language, which is exactly what Revelation 5:9, the third text, says: “You were slain, and by your blood your ransomed people for God from every tribe and language and people and nation.” So he is gathering the children of God by the death of Jesus, which means there is something more God does in the death of Christ than simply making it possible for everybody to believe, à la John 3:16. Rather, it says he is actually effectively purchasing them from the tribes, and he is gathering them like children from the tribes. And so it is not only our little precious gospel. It is a gospel for the whole world.

[@ElijahBRogers]

@Mark White “What shall we say then? Is there injustice with God? Absolutely not! For he says to Moses: “I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.” So then, it does not depend on human desire or exertion, but on God who shows mercy. For the scripture says to Pharaoh: “For this very purpose I have raised you up, that I may demonstrate my power in you, and that my name may be proclaimed in all the earth.” So then, God has mercy on whom he chooses to have mercy, and he hardens whom he chooses to harden. You will say to me then, “Why does he still find fault? For who has ever resisted his will?” But who indeed are you - a mere human being - to talk back to God? Does what is molded say to the molder, “Why have you made me like this?” Has the potter no right to make from the same lump of clay one vessel for special use and another for ordinary use?” ‭‭Romans‬ ‭9:14-21‬

[@Biblecia]

I could hurl back similarly insulting misrepresentations, but Christ has taught me better by his word. Particular atonement is the only accurate summation of Christ’s death for his people. Grace to you.