Serpentine Belt Chirp/Squeal: in-depth Diagnosis

[@mikeovers8512]

I have the gates kit used alot when installing power steering pumps .Seen you at Tst was a great day.Didnt get a chance to talk to you talked to eric and keith you all look shorter on the videos.Wanted to thank you all Ive been wrenching almost 40 years and a shop owner for 30 of those years its refreshing to see guys on youtube that are true pros.so much bad info. On yt from a lot of people that dont have a clue.thanks again for having integrity maybe I will see you at super Saturday in october

[@joneskey3950]

You would make a perfect candidate for a position where you have to figure out manufacturing/electrical/driveability issues. Basically the people who come up with TSB's. Very sharp indeed my friend. Thank you for the video!

[@wyattoneable]

That's a nice kit. Eric did a good job explaining the kit as well, but it was good you got to confirmed your pulleys are all aligned. That was a great visual on the differences between the China harmonic balancer and the OEM harmonic balancer. Wow, Dorman strikes again.

[@retroguitarmaster]

dude you're the man, always going to the quantum level of mechanics

[@ramdodgetruck]

As soon as you said Dorman Harmonic Balancer, I knew what your problem was. Kept watching anyway.

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

Have you run into this problem before? I was surprised that the alignment was spot-on!

[@jeremyanthony9300]

you and Eric o. are the best on KZbin.

[@govhickenlooper]

Ivan - be sure to send us the harmonic balancer so that we can sell it to another customer.

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

Nah I'll keep it as a spare for a really rainy day xD

[@gianfrancoa]

Dorman Products lmao

[@chiluco2000]

And remember, you pay shipping :-P

[@Garth2011]

Best to have a collection cabinet for all Dorman parts that failed by design.

[@glasser2819]

@@Garth2011 fancy ! they fail by design just like the best German parts

[@doctorjohn-burgtekie]

Great video and diagnostics Eric will be proud.

[@baxrok2.]

Very interesting aspects of belt maintenance. Thanks for taking us along for the diagnosis and fix!

[@toroon]

Always love an intelligent video. Hating on Dorman ...gotta love it. Bought a master cylinder once. Learned my lesson. OEM or the junk yard!

[@petar443]

The "general" car repair type of videos are awesome.

[@nicholas8479]

Great video. Learned a lot. Things to consider: 1. Were you able to twist laser tool on pulleys? Any slop would render measurement void. I think Gates says need angular alignment within one degree, which is tiny. 2. Yes tensioner spring is weaker than new, but is it outside of spec? 3. I would have torqued the harmonic balancer to spec. Again I enjoyed your video.

[@wilyfisherman3953]

Very good DIY video Ivan. I feel confident to proceed with my own Serpentine Belt servicing now after watching this vid. Thank you.

[@ozzstars_cars]

After spending a few miles in the Mystique I can vouch for the car being squeak free, runs like a top!! Nice find and fix Ivan.

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

haha thanks Glen, TST was a fun time! Now if I could only find a way to drop the front end of the Mystique an inch or two, it would be purrrfect ;)

[@Carlostype]

I fitted a dayco serp belt to my car that didn't fix the chirp, only to find 3 years later when i fitted a gates belt my problem was gone but the dayco belt was 2 inches longer than the gates belt. I never thought belt lengh would be a variable to the manufacturer!

[@mikeb7887]

Great job Ivan and it was great to meet you and the team at TST earlier today.

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

Thanks Mike, it was a fun event! Bernie Thompson went full beast at the end haha that was awesome :)

[@troywheeler8319]

I do not know if the description for this video was intentional, but "Two years and 30k miles ago..." reminded me of the Gettysburg Address.

[@Paul1958R]

Ivan, Thank you for this and the previous video - very informative. I have essentially the same Zetec engine in my 02 Focus wagon (5-speed!, 108K miles) and had the same engine in my (now defunct) 01 ZX2 (which was also a 5-speed) that had over 274K miles on it and ran fine except the body was completely rusted out after 15 New England (eastern MA) winters. Hope you are doing well with the new job - vibration/spectral analysis sounds very interesting. God bless Paul

[@spelunkerd]

Excellent review, Ivan. That's very perceptive of you to notice the subtle difference in pulley anatomy. Regarding the laser pointer, we sometimes use similar lasers for aligning telescopes. The only problem we encounter with them is that it is very easy to knock the laser out of alignment by dropping it. So most of us who use those will collimate the laser before collimating the telescope. Those astronomy lasers have two tiny allen screws that adjust the laser. I don't know if you can do it but the lasers for telescopes are in circular barrels, and we just rest it in a V shaped saddle and point it at a wall 20 feet away, then spin the barrel to see if the laser point traces out a circle. We try to tune the laser to keep the little circle less than an inch in diameter at 20 feet. I'm not sure it needs to be so accurate for your application.

[@chiluco2000]

TIL --> Collimate: make (rays of light or particles) accurately parallel.

[@josephwash109]

Well, at least you have a nice paperweight harmonic balancer now. The coil spring breakage issue seems common in the rust belt. A lot of manufacturers stress to not damage the paint coating on the springs because the exposed areas will rust, which creates a weak point on the spring, leading to spring breakage. I believe my 1995 Nissan Sentra was recalled for that, but only if the vehicle was ever registered in a rust belt area.

[@andrewhallett-patterson9778]

Never seen pulley alignment kits offered by either Gates or Dayco in Australia so I'll be chasing the local reps to aquire. Had a very similar incident with a FM Volvo prime mover with 650k on the clock. The OE alternator bearings let go at highway speeds and embedded liquid belt throughtout all pulley valleys and alignment was impossible when reassembled . Was going to cost well over $10k to replaced all drive pulleys so were removed and CO2 blasted. Replaced with no issues. Thanks for another great vid Ivan. 👍👍

[@kirkabrahamson1148]

Check on eBay. Still not cheap

[@andrewhallett-patterson9778]

Kirk Abrahamson: Cost isnt a issue to me. I'm just pissed that neither company, the two largest suppliers to the Australian market of belts and associated products, have never mentioned the availability of this kit. Maybe its a request only product for the Australian market.

[@danjensen100]

10k for pullies?! Holy crap, and I thought Benz parts were expensive!

[@andrewhallett-patterson9778]

Dan Jensen : And the alternator was replaced with an Volvo OEM part which let go 2 months later. Again, bearing collapse. This happen 3 more times over a period of 12 months before Volvo admitted the issue was known and "we are actively reveiwing the failures and implimenting an resolution". We resolved the issue ourselves. Purchased from Bosch. Not a failure since and the truck has now exceed 1 million kilometres incident free.

[@kirkabrahamson1148]

Andrew Hallett-Patterson totally agree. Would be nice to be informed of tools that make the job easier and more accurate

[@joe2mercs]

Well Ivan I learnt how important it is examine your ‘v’ belt pulley profiles and contact wear pattern. I have a car that struggles when at idle to generate enough power especially if the main lights are on (the battery light flickers). No squealing from the belt but it is no evident that bottom of the OEM belt grooves are glazed and the after market alternator pulley shows wear on the tips.

[@oda0111]

That's funny, I put a Doorman harmonic balancer on my Ranger, 1 year later it squeaks on cold starts when it's cold outside. I would have never thought the crappy balancer was to blame.

[@TexasPLNR]

Recently had a persistent belt squeak on 03 MDX and found the replacement belt (gator brand) was slightly longer (1/2 cm) and replacement w/ shorter belt fixed squeak.

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

So the longer belt wasn't tensioned properly...interesting!

[@punker6506]

Awesome video! Been wrenching a long time and never thought of this.

[@joshuawebb3337]

I actually sanded my smooth pulleys. Had that melted rubber on them and generally looked like glazed metal surface. Some very fine grit sandpaper made it look new again.

[@Garth2011]

Not many of your average garages will both with the examination and cleaning of the grooves when replacing a surp belt which they likely make 3 times profit on the part. I was charged area of $70 for a surp belt that I found on line for $25, same brand. One thing too, some of those idler pully's are made of plastic and wear at an angle vs. flat. Best to replace them with the metal version along with the tensioner when replacing a surp belt just for good cause. Thanks for the input Ivan and the tip regarding the Dayco laser. One day, some folks will wonder which brand of belts and hoses are best over the overpriced OEM.

[@blockbertus]

Anyone wanna decode the morsecode of Ivans lamp hanging right above the hood? :D

[@drm315]

All I could make out was "Help" and the rest was in Russian.

[@glasser2819]

@@drm315 LOL Spaciba 🙂

[@daveogarf]

@@drm315 - LMFAO! Great one!

[@elcheapo5302]

This just in: Aftermarket parts are junk! ;). Eric's belt diagnostic vid sold me on that belt alignment tool too, and I also bought it from Advance. Works well.

[@AP9311]

Ivan! Damn it! I learned something awesome! What you did on the harmonic balancer and the peak, grooves etc. That was excellent diagnosis! I never gave that much thought on that! But I definitely will look into that in people's vehicles with complaint of squeaks etc. Great video! :) see ya in the next one :)

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

Thanks for the comment, Josh! I had to scratch my head on this one lol. Sometimes the hardest diags are the mechanical ones!

[@AP9311]

Oh absolutely! Lol

[@im2crafty]

Ivan & Eric o - auto detectives. Learned something new

[@Sartonica]

Would have liked to see how the profiles on the two harmonic dampers differed using that belt comb. How about smearing some thread lock on the crank bolt?

[@michaelovitch]

I do not agree at all on the tensionner spring test. When does the "new" tensionner was made ? How do you know if specs were not modified by the manufacturer over time ? Did you look inside to see if the old spring wore down the inside of the housing,where both of its extremities seats on ? Very good video.

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

"new" tensioner was stamped 2002 :)

[@TGsrao1989]

The light overhead :D. Thanks for the upload Ivan!

[@pirihern9329]

Better than sherlock ivan I have noisey belt issue on a 1998 honda prelude also clogged egr ports have to drill out and pop out caps to clear carbon buildup have the time now that im retired although I dont have the patience saludos

[@dinobot_maximize]

ahhhhhhh aftermarket junk strikes again lol thanks ivan, i've never learned so much about the accessory system anywhere else.

[@howiboy]

gotta go oem on these jobs, always with the belts

[@jeremyanthony9300]

excellent video ivan. your'e # 1 man.

[@dpclout4517]

There is a subliminal message in this video. The blinking work light over the hood is flashing morse code - 'never use Dorman parts' Great video and analysis Ivan. I am amazed hoe you only have 28K subscribers with the value of your diagnostics and analysis.

[@GotWire]

Greate video just did almost the same thing to my 2007 ford f150 2 valve. Will have to get me one of those belt tools. And you should deff do a video on the springs!!

[@Diagnosedan]

Great find! Interesting Video! Well done.

[@stephenlawrence4362]

Great vid. Diag was great ,you had reduced tension along with less surface area. Outcome squealing. That poor little Merc is really proving it's worth. Great haircut as well. Take care

[@tomdewey9907]

Excellent root cause analysis there Ivan... 2 thumbs up!! Keep up the good work... :)

[@irish6976]

Great video! Also, beware other aftermarket kits! I always use OEM or an equal serpentine belt from a good mfg, like Goodyear. Beware of Gates tensioner belt kits! Sometimes Gates, supplies a tensioner that does NOT use an OEM size belt! Instead it has a custom belt sized to lock you into the Gates tensioner forever! If your serpentine belt was damaged or cut, you would then find the OEM belt or equal length won’t fit properly! Not something you want to discover out in the boondocks! Belt to use an OEM tensioner and a belt that fits it! Not saying Gates Belts are bad, just saying if you buy their kit, that includes belt and tensioner, you are locked into a unique Gates size belt!

[@cccdetective787]

Hi Ivan I am wondering about your tensioner spring test. I see 3 markers on the unit I know the old tensioner travelled farther but still within the marks at 15ft lbs of torque, could the difference just be production variation? I would expect a opperational range of opperation for the tensioner and if within the marks would it not be at proper tension?

[@Bighead-he8zb]

Wow! In depth scrutiny. There should be a tool to measure the height and width of pulley ribs in addition to the tool you have that measures the belt dimensions.

[@lawrencepevitts2434]

I agree, OEM is my first choice also, but when you can no longer get OEM, your choices revert to Dormann thru necessity.

[@richardcranium5839]

now you dont have to hear ned beaty on a canoe trip every time you drive lol. hows your morse code? that drop light is sending you a message lol

[@throttlebottle5906]

did the power steering pump not have a ton of endplay? most every ford I seen wears and the pump walks in and out with RPM and Pressure change by nearly 1/8th ( the pulley & shaft) but still don't leak ;) OK< you showed it slightly further into the video, that is major play and it will walk outwards when RPM's are up, which is probably closer to aligned ( one of the many issues)

[@rhkips]

Really good eye, Ivan! Awesome stuff! Also that's not a busted spring, it's just the car telling you it wants to be lowered. ;D

[@omorganstudios]

Thx! My serpentine popped off 8yrs afterI bought it...They put in a new one at shop 1, lasted a day popped off , switched shops lasted 2yrs poppedoff again... now hoping I can find a shop that can do proper diagnostics like your video...Probably go to dealer...I thought Midas was better than the "ma and pop" shop???Any recommendations? Firestone?

[@wacio]

I think that the oil leak was also contaminating the belt - dissolving the rubber, causing it to swell and causing slippage due to lubrication. It may not look like oil was making it on the belt but you would be surprised how much mist comes of rotating parts if they have leak nearby.

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

Great point!! Hopefully the new belt will stay clean and dry :)

[@watcherzz4]

Knowledgeable; excellent. Here is my squeal problem; desperate for help: 98 escort zx2. After new water pump install, squeal started and got worse. New throwout bearing and clutch. New tensioner, 2nd new water pump, 3rd new belt frayed when using junk dummy ac compressor pulley, now replaced with new ac compressor running as a dummy pulley. New idler pulleys. Mechanic says alternator is fine, but that crankshaft has longitudinal motion. If so, it would misalign crank pulley, hence squeal. Reasonsble? New engine required? Scared of cost; on social sec. 118k miles. Or replace car? Any comments?

[@jackshimano1994]

I had Chev super charged CORVAIR in 1960's-an aircooled wonder indeed !! -a rich man's VW with guts OR poor man's Porche ? - where SINGLE LOOOONG belt YOGAD around many Horizontal parts,including fan-no water pump thankfully ~~ -then twisted 90 ^ to turn Vertical parts !! SOON learned to carry TWO spare belts-just in case- by the way ,is that a Dorman trouble light in background that you are using ?

[@edgardaspilcueta738]

Excellent video. Superb diagnosis!!!!

[@martinrauhut8441]

You can also use those blue things where you checked your belt to check the profile of your pullies

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

That thought crossed my mind...maybe I can modify one to fit :)

[@100SteveB]

Nice job, Ivan. Be careful when you change that spring, boy they take a hell of a lot of compressing before you can get them off - scary stuff with just normal spring compressing clamps. (I know from experience because i own a 1997 Mondeo - same car in the UK, and yes, they do like breaking front springs, done a few of them on mine. Make sure the top strut bearings are good whilst you have it apart, and don't over tighten the top nut on the strut, that can cause the spring to bind when turning the wheel).

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

Great tips, Steve! I might make a vid on the coil replacement results :)

[@ericcorse]

Well done I like your approach.

[@beaviskornholio2754]

They usually say when you replace the drive belt to replace the tensioner and idle pulley. Not very expensive to replace those 3 parts. Had it done for 95 dollars on my sons fusion with me providing the oem ford parts. The parts cost me about the same which made the replacement less than 200 bucks total.

[@JSchrumm]

Morse code to the family back home.

[@CSkwirl]

Maybe there's a prize if we can decode it, haha

[@garygilbertson965]

It was flashing "call Scott Kilmer"

[@billyyoder8171]

Thank you Ivan. Good job. Bless You for sharing.

[@tedthornton7791]

Did it start squealing later? Also noticed that top idler pulley ( smooth one) had no wear shine in center of pulley like the back and front of the pulley did. What's up with that? Curious. Lol. For future reference Fordtech Makuloco is a good Experienced Ford tech source. Brian's sharp. Nice diagnosis video.

[@ojjenkins7110]

Did I hear the fuel pump running when you turned it off until you turned the key completely off? Good old nickel and dime stuff now :-) Happy Saint Patty's day. Spring arrives at 12:15 pm on the 20th for you Ivan. Good to know about the belt alignment stuff too. Hope the new job is still ok for you :-)

[@jdmeaux]

The harmonic balancer is separated to remove the material between the pieces. And all the parts are dumped into the appropriate bins. On reassembly, parts are simply grabbed and assembled with the fiber between them. They are not checked for fit nor alignment. They are junk.

[@Ottonic6]

Fantastic info. Very well explained..

[@rayrowe2664]

YOU AND ERIC O LOVE THE DORMAN STUFF

[@HamJamming]

That was pretty cool, Ivan!

[@stigonutube]

Nice, Dorman strikes again.

[@davesage9190]

If it was here I'd put the Dorman pulley on the lathe and take a skim off the peaks to bring it into contact with the flanks of the V-groove instead of the peaks. LOL LOL. Great detective work. Thanks Ivan.

[@johnaclark1]

I was thinking the same thing

[@alexandercahoulan6583]

I’m a little confused. I thought that power steering pump pulley had quite a bit of movement. That is a classic cause of belt noise. Chirp because it causes misalignment. Any issues with?

[@SmittySmithsonite]

Dorman strikes yet again! I have no idea how this company stays in business ... 🤯

[@yusuihang]

How does spraying water identify the problem as a squeal from the belt? If the squeal is caused by glazing on belt and/or pulley causing a slip, wouldn't water lubricate the contact surfaces and reduce the friction even more?

[@tylerparker3024]

If my water pump was leaking water on my belt would that make it squeal? Cause it doesn't make sense when water make it stop usually

[@aleksandrzinkevics1253]

Красава!!! Все гениальное просто! Ваня молодец!!!!

[@jamessomraty8721]

lmao..that was great... great job in diagnosing belt issues. To bad the engine made more noise than the belt ever would.

[@strokermk3]

A problem with VW a had was a alternator clutch pulley. It's like a one way clutch. They seem to fail and the result of that is a squeal. Replacing belt and tensioners does not help.

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

Great variable to consider!

[@charlesmiller5078]

I like a little belt squeak on my Toyota, it lets me know its running. Poor belts always suffer all the blame. Nice as you say Case Study. You should do a Whats Up Thursday, then you to can eat dinner on Camera like Eric does :)

[@MattJonesYT]

Seems like you could also use the wear gauge to tell if a pulley is badly designed

[@bobflannagan7262]

Great demonstration. Thanks!

[@pollodormido2]

One of the parts is wrong if they don't match. The belt or the pulley might be a knockoff!

[@jakeandrus690]

Well done Ivan

[@R.E.HILL_]

Excellent. Some audio sync issues.. YT issue or this file upload issue?

[@JVerschueren]

Doorman not getting this part right just begs belief... how difficult can it be to carefully measure something or mold it and do a lost wax casting to get blanks for copying a part?

[@BigD1395]

Yeah that would have been my first guess. Those tension pulleys are usually the culprit in ah noise situation.

[@savannahbyrd5780]

My 09 Nissan Altima squeaks in the belt location for about 15 mins after start up on cold mornings when I got the car it never made a noise but one day I started it and the serpentine belt snapped so I put a new non squeaking belt on it any idea what’s causing this it only squeaks for about 15 mins when cold out then stops and don’t make a sound

[@arsinoeivlostprincess4228]

Lets see those springs go in and speaking of spring maybe another slog up the mountain, thanks!

[@dpeagles]

When my buddy was stationed in Korea circa 1992 he called it the land of ALMOST RIGHT. Kind of sounds like Dorman.

[@ycmdill]

The belt wear tool might have shown the difference between the harmonic balancer.

[@rwrobs777]

Ivan, even though the part says "Ford" is there anyway you can tell it's a genuine part if not bought directly from the dealer ?...?like those Rolex watches you can buy on the street !!...just starting watching your VLOGS....good stuff....you're sharp !!

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

Unfortunately Ford discontinues parts only 8 years after the vehicle is out of production. They couldn't even order the damn serpentine belt for this thing!! xD

[@chiluco2000]

I guess you will have to measure the part closely to known OEM values and hope for the best.

[@willemstreutgers1154]

Isn't there a gauge for the pouly in the kit. Gates can give you a plastic gauge for free, they are for both the belt and pouly

[@HUBBABUBBADOOPYDOOP]

More responsive steering. More positive battery charging. Parts Cannon for the win! Probably the wrong part number balancer. I've used Dorman parts for many years, zero problems. Just lucky, I guess.

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

It worked great, just replace the belt every 2k miles xD

[@ricks3344]

Nice explanation.

[@opl500]

Arr matey, man the parts cannon!

[@pickgina474]

Just replaced my belt it was squealing, its plus 20 to below zero , it now chirping , is that normal .. a winter chirp?. I should say chirp only last a few seconds on some cold starts

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

Don't worry about it. Unless it comes back as a squeal. Make sure the tension is good, and that nothing is misaligned.

[@glenblair4103]

I've got a '92 RS Camaro with only 94k miles that the electric Speedometer has quit working on. I've checked all the wires I can get to, changed the VSS out, hoping to get lucky to no avail. When you turn the ignition switch on, the needle will move up to about where "0" would be, but won't read anything after that...and the odometer has quit as well...please help!

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

Get a OBD1 scanner with GM adapter; should be able to see vehicle speed on live data! Or get wiring diagram and check for voltage input from the VSS. You can do a bypass test as well. Just leave the parts cannon in the closet xD

[@glenblair4103]

Pine Hollow Auto Diagnostics Thank you!

[@j.j.springer1099]

Have blueing? Spray both pulleys twice run both belts, take 4 sets pics to compare

[@zx8401ztv]

When you did the lazer test, there was no belt on the pulleys, i would think that would have an effect on the alignment too, not real use conditions. I could be talking crap too lol :-D

[@carlinlentz6849]

zx8401ztv that's the point lol you align the grooves in the pulleys to know if one groove is out of alignment from one pulley to another

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

As long as the pulleys don't have any axial play, then it doesn't matter if there's a belt on there :)

[@davidg813]

Informative analysis but... did those OEM parts also say "Made in China"? OEM does not mean a thing anymore!

[@zombietherapy1759]

carquest gatorback belt pretty good for high mileage, if looking for quick fix.

[@wingszeto1115]

Well done!

[@hatbui8438]

Nice video.