Serve Tip: Separating Toss and Arm Action

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In our 1-day serve clinics we often find that players who try to make a technical change struggle with combining the toss and the hitting arm action.
If you try to make changes to your toss and your hitting arm action at the same time, it is often too difficult to coordinate both movements.
OTI Instructor Nadim Naser has come up with a new drill to help you get over this hurdle.
In order to later combine both elements you first need to separate them!

[@francisremedios2530]

Best video on coordination of toss arm and hitting arm for the serve

[@NadimNaser]

Thank you very much, Francis

[@ripleypipe]

Nadim, thank you for this excellent discipline, looks very helpful. Gordon

[@drigans2065]

Great tip on how to do the half serve. Separation is the key. Thank you! Nadim, you are the best of the OTI instructors, such clear instructions!

[@CascioMusicProduction]

One of the most useful video for the serve, thank you!

[@susanj.6976]

Nadim, I just watched a string of your videos and they are top rate! The slow recordings and repeats and going frame to frame, comparing the right and wrong angles of the elbows to the shoulders when serviing.... all backs up what I have seen in other videos and yours is so methodical... great teaching skills. Thank you! I also like your suggestions on progression for refining the serves. I'm in Berkeley, CA

[@Dolfan189]

This video really simplified the serve mechanics for me. Most people make the mistake of not separating out the mechanics like the instructor,Nassim, did in this video. I found his separation of the tossing arm and the proper hitting motion to be most valuable. It takes away a lot of the confusion with the mechanics.

[@cherijackson2454]

Wow!! So much information in such a short video!! 😎 Love the way you broke down the steps of the serve. By watching you I can tell my timing is off. Thanks Nadim!! You are the BEST!! Great video!!👍 Getting out there today to fix it!

[@jessalvo6375]

Great tip Nadim!

[@pauloveronesi884]

Tank You Florian, excelent !!!

[@rmrib5]

your serving videos are the best!

[@NadimNaser]

I'm humbled. Thank you

[@HelloKitty-sc3vo]

Super helpful practice drills. Thank you so much.

[@NadimNaser]

I appreciate your, comment HK

[@suneth01]

Best serve lesson I'v seen so far

[@sidviscious10]

Great post.. I think the key is having the racket facing down when the toss is at the apex to get the full pronation and swing from the racquet.. I suspect most beginners pull back to soon and lose 50% of the velocity by doing this

[@jayrussell26]

This video is a game changer for me - The cue of the apex to start the right to left makes me realize how early I was activating the arm only to “hurry up and wait”. Cannot wait to practice this, Nadim - thanks.

[@lavanchung9428]

Great tips Nadim! Many thanks! Chung- Vietnam

[@bijukannan4]

I had inconsistent tosses and elbow dropping issue. I managed to solve both issues after following this video. One of the best serve tips I received so far..Thanks a lot for this video 👍🏼

[@keanemarbaniang7641]

Too good too good too good. Thank you so much for your videos. Top notch

[@mw0212]

I'm 67, 4.0 player and about 2years ago I decided to totally rework my serve. It's been a long road. I got to the late ball toss with arm as you suggest on my own, but have been struggling with consistency. Your shoulder rotation tip, then timing at apex is great. I see lots of pros that bend knees at different times and I go between platform and pinpoint, so I'll fit these tips in and see where it goes. Thanks and I look forward to viewing more of your vids!

[@fuxi8438]

great video, it helps me to understand to swing to hit as long as the ball reach to the apex. usually i'm too rushed or to late to swing to hit. the timing you explained is helpful for me.thank you

[@pramodpatil1190]

very simple execution and good to adopt thank you 👍

[@kirkblee5853]

Very concise and to the point, on my way to the court to try it out!

[@jonioscar1386]

Best advice on serving coach.. I've been seperating my serving motions, experimenting on tossing arm up first or serving arm at half position first also both tossing and racquet arm up at same time however I was able to synchronized or get best result by 'waiting' on half-position till my toss reached its apex or 'stopping' mid air then I went to 'second' position..the results are consistent well striked serves nearly 100 percent of the time. You kinda 'validated' my experiments. Thank you Coach 👍🏻🎾🙏🏻

[@francoma2360]

simple and easy to follow. Thanks!

[@stevenmckelvey4210]

Really enjoyed this, thanks!

[@charlesmunroe2335]

EXCELLENT INSTRUCTION!!!!

[@dctrex]

Good solid tip! Thank you!

[@shilpighosal1732]

Thank you sir for such a great video

[@AppeltVortex]

Great video, thanks!

[@nickwarshaw3337]

Great Video. Now to execute!

[@hotaylor1021]

Very good for the overall coordination thur elbow lead.

[@ranganathantg114]

Good and useful tip even for some advanced (club) level players.Thanks.

[@RichPayneOnline]

Excellent!

[@brettmartelli9668]

Great video.

[@user-mw7hb2rz8e]

Too good idea!

[@danielgomezgarzon]

Great Great video !!! Thank you !!!

[@NadimNaser]

Thank you for tuning in, Daniel

[@studfinderball]

Exactly. I couldn't serve until I imitated Roddick. Racket back and ready to follow the toss. ONE SERVICE MOTION, beginning with the toss. Optimal toss height becomes an easy adjustment to the pace of the service motion. Practice slow, medium and fast serves for complete control.

[@griffehotte]

Very good! That's the key 👌🤙

[@danndane3642]

This was interesting Nadim! I think that crunch time tennis also has a swan like position (of course his is different), only he calls it secret power source.

[@luiscarlostrotta8119]

muy bueno!!!!! saludos

[@tessareddecliff6163]

Great instruction. I have a request. I have incorporated the half position into my serve and it is working beautifully!! I’ve never served more consistently, thank you. But now I need a video showing how to connect the half position to a full swing (for more power?). I’d also appreciate tips on how to control the direction. Thanks Nadim

[@choosakdiseriruk7928]

Thank you

[@awaedin]

Thanks very much for this. I've been using this simplified serve in matches for the last few months and it has increased my serve consistency, racket head speed, ball speed and level spin. The simplification of the serve motion makes it easier for me to get the serve rhythm right - previously I had issues with getting to the trophy position too early.

[@pabloalfred6617]

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[@ignaciofrancis8806]

@Pablo Alfred Instablaster ;)

[@pabloalfred6617]

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[@pabloalfred6617]

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[@ignaciofrancis8806]

@Pablo Alfred No problem :D

[@Adventurevictoria]

Probably best way to start to serve in right way not only separating but also simplify complete process serve by remove shifting weight balance (Rocking motion) since this will be most tricky part in order to combine all concern of serve to make it complete one piece . but rocking motion should master in the end if you want to increase the speed of the serve dramatically .

[@NadimNaser]

Hi Victoria. Thanks for your comment. Yes, you can leave out the movement at first to focus solely on the separation, but it is important to make adjustments to how you start (weight back or weight forward) based on whether you have turned or still have to turn before the toss begins. In the end, as you say, the "flow" needs to be there for maximum effectiveness.

[@g5gmoney]

Nadim, great tip! I can't wait to try it out tomorrow against my weekend warriors. I'll let you know the results.

[@NadimNaser]

How did it go, g5money? Thanks for tuning in

[@g5gmoney]

@@NadimNaserNadim, I do great from the half position but when implementing it from the full windup I still having trouble getting my racket to traveling left to right.

[@NadimNaser]

g5gmoney please continue to use the half position. I actually have a few 4.0 and higher players do that. It doesn’t negatively impact your serve if you begin in the half position. There may bee too much momentum going into your serve from the beginning which is hurting the right to left path. The service motion essentially begins from the “half position”. As long as you turn while in half position, you’re set. Once that movement becomes more subconscious to you, you can try putting the whole motion together again. Good luck

[@g5gmoney]

@@NadimNaser Nadim, TYVM for the reply. I already tried this yesterday and it is helping. I will not rest until I fix my serve!

[@giuseppeflachi5956]

Very very good

[@carlosbernard1657]

Great tip which has really helped me with my serve!!! Thanks!!!!!

[@natsksrn1434]

Exact issue I am having. Coordination of hitting arm and toss arm. Will work on this tomorrow. Can you do a video on the right to left that you talk about.

[@narsimha1089]

Nice videi

[@brucezwecker8750]

Nadim, as usual, this is great! One question, though: as you make your toss and your arm goes up to “vertical,” does your weight shift forward (and upward?) somewhat from your back leg?

[@stevederen921]

Beauty demonstration. It however does not describe what happens w/ arm rotation. Demo shows it partial but (rightfully) you are hitting light. BTW for the ages this type of serve is called Virginia Wade serve and I use it as I do not now any other way. VW (no, no it is not Volkswagen) way is way easier than coordinated.

[@unclebill7490]

Interesting drill, based on 2 problem areas of many students. I have found that laying the arm and wrist in that position is extremely tiring for most persons. So expect that the process will take a while. Also, notice that the laid back wrist has thumb down, not thumb up, which seems correct, but is more difficult. We are always looking for little things to enable us to reach our students.

[@NadimNaser]

Hi Uncle Bill, thanks for your comment. I recommend to start with a "choked-up grip" for those who seem to get tired of "position 1" easily, while not being used to having that position. But regardless, for someone who is not using this technique, it may very well take a while as you correctly pointed out. On the flip side, I have seen a few students adapt this flow relatively fast. It varies from player to player. Again, thanks for checking in.

[@jhoc4212]

Hi Nadim, thank you for the excellent video. Any suggestions to prevent the ball going behind you or too far across the body on the toss?

[@lisawong8379]

check out this video by Nadim on the toss: kzbin.info/www/bejne/rmO0Zpeups-CaM0

[@gerryerskine6978]

After apex, don't you mean let racket drop to left, then swing up, not right to left?

[@emillah411]

Hello Adam! Thank you very much for excellent lesson. I have one question: We start the backswing with so called half position of the right arm. What we get and what we lose with that approach? What are the advantage and shortage of that kind of serving? Best regards, Emil

[@fungmp3]

i want to.know too

[@JigneshPatel-ez4oi]

Good tip I got on you tube. Will work on it

[@NadimNaser]

Let us know, if it helps you improve your serve. Thanks for your comment, Jignesh

[@JigneshPatel-ez4oi]

Hi, I tried to toss the ball without footwork and raising up racket. Only toss. And, I must say that it was far better. Strait and high. I am still beginner. So I will try the trick for more time and slowly will involve leg movement, bending knee, pin point or platforms stance. Hope so, I learn fast. Serve is difficult as you know. Thanks again for video.

[@strongbrain3128]

Picking this coach's serve technique: The pull-down of his tossing arm (left arm) was delayed during serve (4:43), which hindered his body rotation and his serve speed.

[@samm8479]

Great points! One thing I noticed, your left hand needs to pull to the side of the body at contact to complete full rotation. Your left hand seems to be stopping at the middle of your body.

[@awaedin]

Excellent stuff, are there some eg WTP players who actually serve like this?

[@NadimNaser]

If it were up to us/me, there would be a whole lot more WTA players serving like that. It would definitely help make their serves more effective and powerful. Good examples (among a few others) are Serena W and Naomi O.

[@ksk1735]

Apex means the peak??

[@basho9306]

What's the KZbin channel for Nadeem??

[@ashbow3806]

Nice instructions, but my body make up is I’m always tight,

[@bertlacatan1620]

What grip do you suggest on your serve?

[@manuttemanutte]

Online Tennis Instruction with Florian Meier h

[@craigberg1942]

But how do you get to position one, and coordinate that with the whole process?

[@josehernandez2353]

👍👏🎾 Very good point! That's my problem!!

[@euroclyde]

You dont. These 2 part serves require higher tosses and have more moving parts. They tend to break in tense/stressful situations more than integrated, smooth serves with minimal altitude service tosses.

[@mansfieldlou]

@@@euroclyde ... Maybe you didn't watch the whole video. At 4:30 in the video he states I do not have a high toss and I encourage most players to not have one either. Then he demonstrates the complete serve motion with a relatively low toss.

[@euroclyde]

@@mansfieldlou you're right. In this demo, he is able to hit the ball with a pretty normal height toss. However, from what I've seen in reality with people using these 2-part serves is usually very high tosses & a lot of weird rhythms.

[@NadimNaser]

Hi everyone. It's really nice to see so much discussion on this video. As Florian said and I mention in the video. Start in Position 1. Make it "easy for yourself" to master one, then the other element (toss and arm action). What most players struggle with is combining the two too soon without either of them being solid yet. I suggest you start in position 1, with your weight on your back foot and your body already facing more diagonal than frontal. Here you initiate the toss while remaining in position 1. You are NOT encouraged to toss the ball higher, what you are encouraged to do is to smoothen out your arm action, so that when it begins, it is a motion that gets faster as you get up to contact. That's why you can delay the arm action until the ball reached its apex. One common reason why players often toss the ball higher (to correct the serve - but has the opposite effect) is a false correction because it causes halts or slow-downs when in fact you should be accelerating the swing. Hence, it's important to forget the outcome while working on this. Smoothen out the arm action, create a calm and complete tossing motion that allows for a smooth service rhythm WITHOUT tossing the ball higher. Do so independently of one another and once your video feedback tells you that either a) or b) is working 80-90% of the time, try combining the two.

[@ReidVV]

Your content is great and much appreciated. Please, do no take my following comment as negative, but rather as constructive. Please talk less and demonstrate more in your videos. Start with a brief, and I mean BRIEF, description of your lesson, then get into SHOWING what you want to teach, NOT TALKING MORE about it. Check out RacquetFlex on KZbin. See how he gives a SHORT intro, then gets straight into video of what he's teaching. Often he shows the lesson video and covers it with what's called a voice over, that is, verbally describing what's being demoed in the video while it's playing. This allows him to present better video of what's being demonstrated and to provide better, more concise descriptions because the speaking is done off camera. Add ing the voice over description after shooting the video demonstration allows the opportunity for different verbals takes (take 1, take 2, take 3) and the editing out of verbal mistakes with trying to do he verbal part of the teaching on camera. Trying to show and tell at the same time is just too difficult and frankly results in clunky, less instructive videos that make your viewers wait to long to get to the points contained in the real instruction. You and Florian have been doing videos too long to be using such a dated production technique. You can do better with just a little pre-planning and your videos will result in quicker, more effective instruction videos that keep your viewers tuned in and focused on what you're teaching. That's what builds viewership, likes and most importantly, subscriptions. For an example, watch this video from RacquetFlex: kzbin.info/www/bejne/m37UYaKJaJufnJo . If you want more details, I am a video professional and can I can help and advise you on how plan, shoot and edit these kinds of productions. I'm not looking for a job. I just like your videos and want to help.. Contact me, if you're interested. Sincerely, James.

[@opalpearl3051]

are you hitting a slice serve because you don't seem to be pronating.

[@Kazzzzzo]

Even slice serve must be done with pronating.

[@opalpearl3051]

@@Kazzzzzo yes, but is the pronation any different. If not, whats the difference between a first serve and a second slice serve if the pronation is the same.

[@Kazzzzzo]

@@opalpearl3051 The contact point happens earlier when slice serving. Also the ball is tossed bit more to the right (for righthanded). You brush the ball from left to right. The other extreme is kick serve where the ball is tossed to the left, over your head. You brush the ball upwards int that case. Flat serve, you toos a bit in front, you dont brush, you hit the back of the ball.

[@opalpearl3051]

@@Kazzzzzo ok, but my confusion is, on a flat serve, for a righty, you pronate wrist by having palm face court on right side of the body. But, on a slice serve, is it correct to say you pronate by "carving" ball from left to right. So, wrist is turning in different directions on the different serves.

[@Kazzzzzo]

@@opalpearl3051 It's under arm, that is turning outwards (supination) and inwards (pronation). racket face (palm) is facing to the left, then you pronate, it faces to the left. The difference between flat and slice is slice occurs before racketface faces the net.

[@aithankirschner809]

Just you’re meant to have a continental grip when serving (hand at bottom of grip).

[@leventonaran]

Pıease little words, but lot of practice :) Thanks

[@laurencecorray]

Very good advice but I see a pronounced palm down and crinkle on the front side of your wrist throughout the serve action until the racket drop. You don’t seem to emphasise the importance of these 2 actions, without which you won’t get a deep racket drop and power. I feel the take back, racket drop, timing, one or all of them, breakdown when the wrist is not loose throughout the whole process. All online coaches do not address this except a certain HighAltitude Tennis who did a clip on the importance of palm down and crinkle on the front side of the wrist some 7 to 9 years ago and many netizens rubbished it. Watch the great servers, Kyrgios, Raonic, Sampras, Federer (he disguises it and crinkle is only seen at the later stage of the racket take back), Joko (more pronounced) Serena (also disguised) Osaka........ they all have the palm down and crinkle on the front side of the wrist.

[@NadimNaser]

Laurence Corray thanks for your comment. The Palm down and “loose” wrist concept is in fact very important and we have that concept covered in our Blueprint Serve Course as well as other individual videos. The focus of this video was a different one that’s why it’s not focused on here. However, yes, it both are important, especially at the more advanced phases of learning the serve.

[@laurencecorray]

Nadim, Understand fully and many thanks for the taking the trouble to reply.

[@alessandroboni8032]

How on earth did you dress up? Long sleeve, half sleeve and polo!? 🤔😒😳

[@racketman2u]

by separating the individual actions independently of each other; start with the long sleeve shirt, and only once you have successfully put it on, repeat the process with the half sleeve, then the same with the polo. Don't try to put them all on at once, you'll just end up rolling on the ground swearing.

[@NadimNaser]

@@racketman2u you're a funny man - glad I was able to amuse you guys