Maffetone Training for Runners: low heart rate training | Opinions Welcome!

The Maffetone training method emphasizes the importance of low heart rate training. Share your thoughts or experience with low heart rate training down in the comments.
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[@cookinginpawleys]

Like others have said, MAF works wonders between training and will prepare your base for a 12-18 week training session. My MAF number is 133. I started at 12min/mile to stay under 133bpm, and in six months, I was running 8:56 at the same HR, and for longer distances. I will keep the MAF philosophy on my slow runs in a training session, while still doing the traditional speed sessions of a marathon training program. It incorporates quite well into other coach's programs.

[@dominikschrott7412]

That's encouraging to know that this big steps of pace are realistic. Just restarted Training and hopin bring down pace below MAF Number from low 11min to mid to low 8min paces.

[@raphaelmartins849]

I have been using MAF as my base training as I started to run 3 years ago... My MAF pace was >6:20min/k @ 140bpm, 3 yrs later I'm running

[@mckonal]

thats a great development but 3 years is too long tho. how do you do now?

[@ian7328]

I do all my training easy,and have improved my marathon time from 4:24,down to 3:07,the only speed work I do is odd races,it also helps short speed as my 5k has gone from 20's to 17:35.I'm a 47yr old so it helps me get injured less so can get good consistent miles.

[@ericwehmueller87]

Ian5 r do you have a strava account, would love to follow you. I'm starting MAF and would like to see your data.

[@thegoldmine4111]

I just found this comment, and I'm a restarting 46 year old looking to get into MAF while coming back from a long hiatus. Any update on how it has worked for you over the long(er) haul?

[@ian7328]

@thegoldmine4111 well this was a long time ago. I haven't beat 3:07 yet,but I'm now 51 and last year I got a 3:10 and 3:11,both wava bests.

[@thegoldmine4111]

@@ian7328 Thanks for responding! I plan on doing a 6 month 90/10 split on MAF training, only breaking to do HIRT/HIIT with my son on his trackwork days. My MAF speed is currently only around 10:00/mile pace, but I've heard that moves rather rapidly after the first few months.

[@ian7328]

@thegoldmine4111 it does,you just need to have patience and bea with it,as it takes a while then suddenly you have a nice drop in pace.Good luck with it.

[@cdl1752]

I’m a 67 year old who started running 2 years ago. I’ve been doing MAF training for just over a month and have seen remarkable improvement. My plan is to stick with it for for 2-3 months, then start adding in speed work. Very impressed with the results so far.

[@robertbausa1]

QD: I started MAF in July after (another) injury and in the end I would say it gave me a great base line to work with and feel stronger and healthier so far in my running. At 50 and with two years of running (and 6 months worth of injuries :-( ) my physio told me flat out I was over training. I'm not hard core Maffetone Method, but the basic low heart rate (MAF) principles for building an aerobic base have been working and getting me to 40+ mile weeks and Healthy. Using MAF I've seen a 10% increase (11/mi to 9:50/mi) in my aerobic pace so far, but the first 3-4 weeks it was very hard to change my habit of over training. Last week I added in one "up tempo" workout a week for a Half Mary in 2 weeks and Houston Marathon (first full) in 56 days!!!. I set a new PB for my 13.1 a good deal below race effort and felt healthy and strong after the run. MAF does allow for some speed workouts AFTER becoming a healthy runner, but certainly less than most standard training I've reviewed. I think you are on target with your basic premise of building your aerobic engine, especially for newer runners, and as you pointed out there would be differences in approaches on how much speed work for experienced, healthy runners over the long haul. A lot of Maffetone Method really isn't new, but for me it has been easy to follow and I'm seeing improvements and good prospects for being a healthy runner in my 50's and beyond.

[@meznine44]

Hard days hard, easy days EASY. Recover fully between hard efforts and always have at least one more rep in you.

[@backyard1015]

Bingo!!!

[@julien7705]

That’s the secret! Can’t say better than that sentence

[@josephctann]

QOD: Have never tried MAF, I like a 80/20 split. 80% Aerobic. 20% Anaerobic. Unlike Seth, it is not difficult for me to run 9:00+ pace. 😆 Also, gotta love the shot of Seth foam rolling in the front yards while watching the kids!

[@j.w.matney8390]

ditto

[@Jumbiiiee]

😂😂 Same! A heart rate of 142bpm at 6:55/mile is incredible!

[@tobbstern]

Yeah me too 🙄

[@Mellowyellow8888]

the thing is that if you are trying to do base building (aerobic building) you do it for months then transition out of MAF into more like 80/20 split.. mostly this is done offseason or new runners or even runners that have poor aerobic.. it hits on the point why even run anaerobic when your aerobic is poor or needs conditioning to begin with..

[@SimonSaysSimon]

My heart rate is at 142 when I turn around in bed😂😭

[@praisethesun9005]

Lol thats a heavy blanket. We all start from somewhere. Build up to an hour everyday and 2hrs on a weekend day.

[@okantichrist]

Is that a hospital bed ?😂

[@matt-fn9gr]

How big is your mistress

[@mreyes2633]

You might wanna go see a doctor

[@pataleno]

So when I brisk walk my heart rate is 100-115 BPM. As soon as I start running really slow my heart shoots up to over 140-150 BPM. There is no in between. Surely I can’t keep walking.

[@dropdadime08]

I don't exactly do MAF training BUT doing recovery runs at a low HR has dramatically impacted my training. It def has its benefits.

[@wongyiksiong]

"Floris Gierman" is a good KZbin who has extensive vlogs about MAF and also his podcast "Extramilest" which invites some really good runners like Zach Bitter and even Phil Maffetone himself and discuss about heart rate training, if you would like more info about it. Cheers

[@j.w.matney8390]

His blogs are very good, thanks for recommending him.

[@paulharmsen3187]

Just discovered his channel/podcast a few days ago. Guy is a great source of info! Also has a video of doing a solo marathon at 4.10/km pace at the track while casually explaining MAF 🤣

[@mariamakesup1]

Was really looking forward to this vlog! I'm not strictly following MAF, but have been enjoying lower HR/intensity runs

[@johnniejackson9522]

His slow pace is my all out effort 🤦🏾‍♂️

[@jonathansandberg5983]

I gravitated towards MAF since I genuinely enjoy long slow miles way more than I do intervals and other speed work. I started keeping track of my heart rate and limiting my carbs after finishing a 3:52 marathon last May. At the end of October I ran another marathon in 3:19 which is a huge improvement. I think the fact that MAF is relatively gentle and allows fast recovery and a ton of miles is the important part. If I had less time to devote to running another method might be better. All I know is that I enjoy it and I’ve made huge gains and that’s all that really matters.

[@trainwellracewell]

Agree 100%. MAF is great for slowly building that base but if you want to race fast, you need to have times in your training when you run fast 🏃💨

[@mikefaber3567]

I may be in the minority but it's nice to speed the pace up a few times a week, not every day of course though. Speed work breaks the boringness up. And let's me feel ok to slow down and enjoy my easy runs.

[@bencrombie1470]

I’m a big fan of MAF either at the beginning of a long training period or in between training periods but always put some faster and more intense work in at the end of a training period. MAF is great for building a base and does allow you to run massive volume with lower risk of injury. MAF actually stands for maximum aerobic functionality, it’s just a coincidence that Phil Maffetone created it!

[@gavinmaboeta6401]

Thanks.

[@mattpotter8725]

If you are putting some faster and more intense work in then it really isn't MAF is it? This is something else. If you adapt the plan to what you want it to be without totally sticking to the plan set out, which means no high intensity work, then it is a standard plan. What you are basically saying is at the beginning of long training periods or between periods do low intensity running to allow the body to recover. This isn't Maffetone as far as I understood it to be.

[@bencrombie1470]

Matt Potter, I’m referring more to monitoring my heart rate and keeping it below my MAF limit regardless of pace. For example, my MAF limit is 147bpm and I will run exclusively below this for 3 months or so in a 5 month marathon training period. At the start of this period my pace at this HR might be 5.15km, but after 3 months it’s often down to 4.40km or so. This allows me to run high volume comfortably and builds a great base. I then put in 8 weeks or so of intervals, tempo runs etc. Certainly not exclusively MAF for the entire block, however that base period is. I personally wouldn’t recommend exclusive MAF for the reasons Seth mentions. You also need some time in the pain cave leading up to a race.

[@guitarman7575]

I trained the same way. Did a PB on my last HM race 😀

[@mattpotter8725]

@@bencrombie1470 That sounds like a fair enough plan. Not sure if I made the point in my comment here, but I think it's great to teach your body to run longer distances and time than you are used to, but if you doing anything for too long your body will get used to it and get very good at adapting to running at that pace. I do long slow runs when I try to keep my heart rate down, but I don't use a formula, I do it on feel, you tend to know if you are wearing yourself out by going too fast. I'm highly sceptical of formulas as I think there is one similar to this for max heart rate (220 bpm minus your age). That just doesn't work for me at all and by following this formula I would be walking as 180 minus my age isn't even my heart rate when I've done my warm up!!! What you suggested as building up a base over 3-5 months sounds great if you have never run a half marathon/marathon before, but surely after you've done your race and had a week or so recovering you don't go back to 5 months of MAF workouts do you? To me you've already got your base. Or do you do this to try to drop your heart rate further? I tried this, although it was on a plan that wasn't called Maffetone and it just didn't work, my HR didn't get lower at the end of it, and when I reverted back to my usual training it was hard work getting my fitness back at faster paces I found. It might work for some, but not others as is the way with most things.

[@brandenbolt5573]

I've done MAF for 18 months. I usually PR after no speed work! I know there is a PR waiting for me whenever I want to go beast mode. MAF March 2018 15:50 minute miles. June 2019 11 minute miles. March 18 to june 19 was on 10 miles per week. July 19 ( 11 mm , to now December 19 - 9 minute miles - on 25 miles per week. I anticipate to be 8 minute mile pace in February, on 30 miles per week. Hope to increase to 35 mile weeks in February and by may or June 2020 - 7 minute miles. Maffetone training does work! My speed work , is letting my heart rate get a bit lower on a maf run by slowing down for 3 minutes, and then - running a bit faster, maybe 7:30 minute mile pace for around 20-30 seconds - I'll repeat this a few times on every run while staying in my zone. I have hit 6 minute mile pace briefly using this maffetone fartlek type of training - the faster your spurt the shorter it has to be. The runners in my club always get a surprise when I race ( rarely) the runners who don't really know me , see my 9-10 minute mile strava runs and discount me as a contender !!!!!! Until they see me clapping them at the Finnish line having finished before them! . they can train hard all the time, get illness after illness, injury after injury - and I'm cruising 99% of the time running slow miles!!! I'm crazy for training so slow according to them - that is, until race day - when the maffetone gloves come off. For a year before starting maffetone, I was getting slower. I thought my best running times were done. I can't stress how pleased I am that I found out about maffetone. New born runner.

[@zachbarnes1203]

You increased volume in general. Makes sense. People will generally improve if given ANY structured plan. Whatever works for you, but it's no magic and the heart rate it gives you makes no sense and isnt derived by any other than rando chosen from air.

[@catherinekasmer9905]

So cute when little Seth was exercising next to you! I’m hoping the low intensity method will let me run longer distances as I seem to always get injured when I increase the volume of weekly training. But then I’m older (59) and running for fitness and enjoyment and the mental benefits of running. Even though I am not a race winner, I still take my running seriously. My goal is to run decently for the rest of my life. Love your vlog and cheering for your success!!!

[@anitak1095]

I tried MAF and I think i would work for me if I was able to be patient enough. But from what I read about it I think Seth aerobic base is already developed past what Maffetone has to offer. Most runners take on speed training when they would benefit just as much from just running more at slow paces with less injury risk. When i started running and joined the running club i was excited about doing the track workouts, tempo runs, treshold runs, long runs etc. I made progress but I think the results would have been similar if I was just running more and slow. When I try to run longer below my MAF HR I have to walk. Using MAF, Seth would actually have to run significantly faster, not slower, on his easy runs. He probably already has 10+ years of 'Maffetone' training without calling it such. Just becasue we can all run in the same race dosn't mean we need the same type of training. Last thing Seth needs is to work on his aerobic base rather than speed/form/efficiency and marathon specificity.

[@SamStow]

I love low HR training. I do around 80-90% of my weekly volume in the MAF range, combined with strides (20-30s) and mostly short intervals for a workout and then maybe a moderately high tempo section in a long run. I've been seeing continual gains and feeling great for it, running anything from 5k to 50miles.

[@paceyplodder5911]

You need to put "I'm going anaerobic" on a t-shirt!

[@tfitz9209]

I’ve run mostly MAF this year plus a harder interval session each week and for me it has been brilliant. I find this combo works well. I’m 44 and only been consistently running for 2 years so I’m no authority, but it definitely feels more enjoyable and is far less stressful on the body at my age. Slowing to walk up steep hills feels odd at first to keep in my MAF range but the beauty of it is you get faster at same heart. I highly recommend watching or listening to Floris to see better examples of athletes it has worked well for.

[@ronkeats]

I'm reading this comment 2 years later. I've been thinking whether I should do MAF but with one harder session sneaked in every week, but I'm afraid it would "sabotage" the MAF. But it seems that it works well for you. Can you give an update on where you are in your MAF running journey? Thanks!

[@skullersrowing1507]

in rowing we use the term steady state... the majority of training is done at a low heart rate but you have to hit all the energy zones; threshold, transport, anaerobic, max if you want to race. You have to know what the pain cave feels like in training before experiencing it in racing.

[@JK-vc7ie]

Skullers Rowing Rowing is not really a sport

[@Wgravelle]

J K what kind of inane statement is that

[@angelosberis4532]

I’m a rower too and that’s exactly what I commented

[@backyard1015]

I had a coach when I did my first marathon. First 2 months was base training building up to 50 miles per week. Base is an easy paced slower than butter run. But, it works. Building a base then adding speed work outs in 3 months while adding in a few 5K and 10Ks is the building blocks to a PR. Good Luck in Houston!

[@CurvedXice67]

I’ve been training maf for months. Best thing ever. Thought you’d never make this video !!

[@johnogaage]

Me too 👍

[@andrelemon1290]

Hi Seth, I have been applying the MAF method to my training for the past 6 months. I came down with a awful case of mono last March and didn’t run a step for 2 months. When I decided to start running again I gave the MAF method a shot. For three months I did my best to run at or below my MAX aerobic heart rate (180-age). Over that three month period I was able to build my mileage to about 40 per week. Earlier this month I set a half marathon PR but I did put in a 8 week block that featured one threshold workout and strides a week. I think MAF is a nice set point to check on your easy runs and recovery runs. I recommend putting a link in your show notes to an interview with Phil MAFfetone. Look into the ExtraMilest podcast by Floris Gierman. The podcast includes some caveats you have skipped over (max aerobic HR, MAF test, when to start speed training, volume required, nutrition, FAT burning vs. Carb). Keep up the good work Seth!

[@andrelemon1290]

I should add that I believe the MAF method is what kept me healthy and not relapsing back to illness when I started introducing running back into my hectic schedule. The MAF training block I did is what paved the foundation for my half marathon specific training block. Also-Your comment regarding the MAF method is perfect for couch to 5k is spot on!

[@couchmatt714]

Floris Gierman has a great interview with Zach Bitter that I think addresses a lot of the misconceptions noted in these comments. Zach uses the method perfectly and has the elite running resume to make it credible.

[@jasonvennard4550]

What was the time on your half PR?

[@andrelemon1290]

Jason Vennard I managed a 1:18:08. It was a very good run for me.

[@jasonvennard4550]

Damn man that is smokin, nice job.

[@Kenzierose93]

I’m currently trying low heart rate. Last week 78.8 miles, every mile was LHR. I’ve enjoyed it, goal is to stick to LHR all winter.

[@graygnat705]

How did it go?

[@runningformybestlife]

Are you still doing this? I’ve been at it for about 3 months. Curious to see how it works for others.

[@mrdavester]

@@runningformybestlife well the first guy abandoned, how did it go for you?

[@runningformybestlife]

@@mrdavester so far so good! I’m over 5 months in. Of course, I had my frustrations at first. About to reintroduce speed work and strength training again now that I feel my aerobic base is solid. I have a video I made about my progress a couple weeks ago if you went to check it out. Are you doing it? If so, how’s it going?

[@mrdavester]

@@runningformybestlife i just realized I watched your video 2 days ago I've only just started this..a week in maybe. Its tough having to walk so much but it suits the winter weather.

[@kylelajot6145]

Been doing this for 4 months now, from my 1st 5k, 1st 10k to my 1st 21k, fingers crossed I can finish. Maf! 💯💯

[@francescodefendi3201]

Wow! Almost 50,000! You deserve it boy! 👏🏼🤙🏽

[@garylq]

I'm currently 3 weeks away from the end of a 7 month MAF block. Background; I took up running Spring 2014, going from couch to BQ -10mins. It was a wonderful 5 year streak of PB after PB, no injuries, all done using traditional training methods. However my good luck ran out in May this year when I had my first ever DNF, pulling out of a marathon in pain after a series of niggles had disrupted training. During the MAF block, which I admit was very frustrating at first, all my niggles have faded away and I now feel fantastic. No fatigue, always fresh during and after runs. It healed me well enough to complete a 50K ultra-trail race, a multi-terrain marathon and a road marathon (Berlin) during that period. I ran them all for fun at low effort. I saw pleasing gains at my MAF HR, but not the jaw-dropping improvements you sometimes read about. I'm now hungry to run fast again. A month ago I reintroduced one mini-workout per week. Say 2 miles tempo, or 5x 3 minutes fast. I'm also doing strides or short hill sprints twice per week. This is to prepare me for an 18 week Hansons Marathon block that starts in mid-December. I have absolutely no regrets about trying MAF. It took me from running in pain and unable to complete a race to fit, well, happy and healthy. That's a resounding success. However, I want to run fast again, so I won't be sticking at it permanently. I'll be switching-off my HR alert on December 17th.

[@Hillrunner50]

MAF training isn't all about staying at or under your 180-age. After building base, you incorporate speed work/intervals/harder training.

[@tonybowen455]

I started jogging in Sep, using Maff kind of by accident. I wanted to go long distances, but I wasn't fast. I actually really started liking half marathon distance, which is similar to what you said in your other video of doing 2+ hour long runs to build up the lungs. After I did that I was able to crush my pr 5k times these past two weeks. I feel like that is way better for training for another sport, and I want to start focusing on getting my mile time down which I think would be even better for sports, and then just doing slow long distances. As a side note, I think even going below Maffetone heart rate and jogging for a lot of hours is a great way to build a base starting out. It got me mentally used to just putting in hours, and I was surprised how much my speed increased. I had no idea how hard I used to run before I started watching people like you and kofuzi on YT. I just found out about recovery runs the other day.

[@wrxzboost]

MAF training is brilliant for Full Distance Ironman training, Ultra's, or new runners. But I'm with Seth, this won't check off the "speed" checkbox. i trained this way and it did wonders for my endurance and helped me finish my Ironman with ease. i'm starting back up with MAF again for a 100k, but will incorporate speed work when focusing on Olympic distance triathlons because MAF just doesn't cut it.

[@SunnyCurwenator]

Firstly, you did it justice, I've trained MAF exclusively in the first 5 months of season one from last October/Nov 2018 to March 2019, aiming to not breach the magic number. Wrist based HR did not work so I had to upgrade to a Scosche HR on my arm, suddenly - predicted HR that's stable 👍 I also relied on Stryd for accuracy in pace. QOD: YES I absolutely had success. My paces improved at same HR range. I did not get injured. However, after that 5 month base I did what Phil says: add in specificity i.e. speed sessions such as fartleks, track - while continuing to have low HR sessions. I'd do one or two faster sessions and 3 long MAF runs. The result of ten months training (5 exclusively at only MAF range) I ran my debut marathon on a v hilly Snowdonia course in 3:38 off only max 40 miles per week training. In season two (2019/20) I'm resetting and had 3 weeks off after my marathon. Done. I'm now back to just MAF sessions and repeating the same courses and workouts I did in season one...I'm way faster for the same HR range than I was a year ago...easily a minute per mile. But, I will deviate from MAF. I'm going to keep either one hilly or one fast track or a race session in my weekly mileage whilst also doing MAF sessions. I'll let you know how it goes, especially as my goal is to hit PBs in anything from 1 mile to half marathon. Bottom line, I used to get injured a lot ... Seems now I stay injury free and feel amazing... As Simon Ward said - he interviewed Dr. Phil for his triathlon SWAT podcast... "A rising tide lifts all boats"...which means...as you get faster at the same lower HR will mean you pace will be faster at higher HRs....seems to be the case for me. I'd go on to say that in the Lore of Running book when MAF is discussed, they use Mark Allen as the example...no he didn't only train low HR, what he did was train low HR exclusively in the first 5 or 6 months of the pre season / season and then once that "patience" phase was over he'd start training at higher intensity...he ran the IM world record run back in the eighties (2:40 and change I think) , this mark was only surpassed by an über runner a couple years ago....but, we're all different, find what works for you and continue to adapt and improve 🤘👍🙏

[@alexanderkolbl1826]

Besides all your support and information regarding running sport it is very nice to see that you are the fan(I hope so) of Slovenia, my countrie. Keep up the good work and I wish you all the best.

[@ladi]

Love the Slovenia top! Greetings from Ljubljana, Slovenia

[@Funmance]

I'll be using MAF to build the aerobic engine over the winter. Then 12-16 weeks out from racing season I'll start to add in quicker stuff and do more event specific workouts. MAF is such a great way to get a lot of volume without the fatigue associated with hard efforts.

[@mrpfvc]

John Son I think what you’re describing is how most people train but don’t call it MAF. In my opinion people that like MAF and talk about running with the MAF method only do low heart rate training and never get into a 12-16 week training block where they start to incorporate higher pace efforts. If MAF training really is only doing low heart rate during the winter then establishing training blocks with speed work then I wouldn’t call it “MAF Training” but just “Training” cause that’s what most people do.

[@Funmance]

@@mrpfvc I see, so MAF method says about low HR training all the time? Even during race season

[@mrpfvc]

John Son it sounds like some people on here are saying it’s not just low HR training but also allows for speed work to be incorporated into training blocks for peak races. Which to me sounds a lot like “training” not “MAF training”. Not many people I know run hard for 12 months out of the year 🤷‍♂️

[@nosirrahm]

Matt Ponzer - but MAF is not new. It’s been around for decades. So, while runners may have been using the method unknowingly without Maffetone’s framework, the principles did come from MAF.

[@mrpfvc]

nosirrahm I have distance running books from the 60’s and 70’s that outline those training fundamentals. Periodization has been around a long time and using the winter months for strictly aerobic base building was something people were doing back then. It’s good to hear that MAF allows for some speed work in training blocks leading up to races, I just think this type of training was around a long time ago. Maybe MAF just invented the part about a certain specific heart rate for an easy conversational pace?

[@GK-sh7ck]

Agree with you Seth. A committed "runner" since 1966 and still running, "MAF" as it is now refered to would fall under the realm of base milage training or as I call it "miles in the bank". My coaching back in the 60's was hard core Arthur Lydiard method. Slow running was a foundation activity or for recovery. I find most of todays coaching philosophies harken back to Arthur Lydiard's approach ie. foundation phase, strength phase, speed training, sharpening followed by tapering. Variations of Lydiard's approach. I very much enjoy your video channel and am always on the lookout for truly new ideas. Keep up the great work Seth.

[@chrisgould9404]

I have done Maf in the past it didn't work for me, but I believe he now suggests 80/20 is the way to go. Which makes more sense.

[@praisethesun9005]

MAF is a hard truth for chronic zone 3 addicts.

[@terraflow__bryanburdo4547]

@@praisethesun9005 Stay out of zone 3 and you'll be fine. Still allows for 80/20, 90/10 or whatever works for you.

[@praisethesun9005]

@@terraflow__bryanburdo4547 yessir but i meant most ppl are dishonest with themselves about their easy pace X)

[@terraflow__bryanburdo4547]

@@praisethesun9005 Very true. My favorite cue (no watch needed) is to make sure I am "belly breathing" deep into my diaphragm/gut while keeping my hips relaxed and forward. If I feel my breathing creeping up into my chest I back off.

[@yenegh]

Thank you for your input. I am just starting out and keen to dial back some of my runs to try the MAF method. Cheers 👍

[@jepensedoncjesuis4813]

75% of training @MAF max!...😜It has helped me to build patience for Marathon Race (hold it for the first 3/4 then gradually put the foot down)👌👍

[@tevzerzen9148]

Rocking Slovenian National team tracksuit. Nice job!!😁

[@rogervantongeren283]

For two months I am now training with low heart rate. I base my whole training approach on the Primal Endurance book which is also based mostly on MAF, but also Keto. With my age of 48 I would need to run at 132hr but as I am already on Keto and have done a LD Triathlon I am running/training at around 138/140hr. So far I am improving a lot. I did a 10K at the end of October and again yesterday, but I ran 4min20sec faster... The next month I will pick up the volume but still keep my hr at this level. Then after Christmas I will turn it around and have a very high intensity period for around 4 weeks. For the next months I will have a mix of periods with low hr and high intensity until my A-race at Challenge Roth in July. So far I really like the method and have great confidence in my further improvements.

[@marlinweekley51]

Excellent-Exactly! Thank you for explain perfectly what I’ve been try to tell the MAF disciples in my group. I personally have found at my level of 9 marathons (1/2 of which are 50k or greater) a year 2 things are key: 1. Plenty rest 3-4 days before a race 2. Run to neg split almost all runs, on a 10 mile run run the last 3 as hard as possible. Works well for me. This year I’ve had best times at all distances from 5k to 100 miles I’ve ever had. Thanks again 👍

[@steveknight6220]

Running using this method since the summer and haven't had any injuries which has made a massive difference. Recently ran a PB half/marathon at pace 2min quicker than my training runs so does work (for me). Not going to say you don't need speed work as starting to consider if should be adding a fast run/week. Although seem to be improving with just MAP pace runs.. An interesting topic and comments. :-)

[@runningformybestlife]

This was fantastic. I loved hearing your insight on this. I started this method about 3 months ago and have seen about a minute taken off my pace at zone 2. I feel much better the days and my runs much mor enjoyable. I try do 2 days of speed work. Due to COVID and no races planned, I’m gonna stick with it throughout 2021. Basically, I think do whatever works for you. Everyone’s body reacts differently.

[@jefflichosik9568]

QotD: I have not used the MAF method. Unbeknownst to me as a 49 year old runner I have always followed the Seth J DeMoor philosophy of training by “Feel.” I try not to fall into the trap of over thinking everything when it comes to Running. To me it’s all about taking it One Mile at a Time. Onward and Upward 👍

[@andreafletcher6046]

Agreed. Prior to all the technology etc. today, runners had to run by feel. Pretty much what I do 🏃‍♀️

[@mrpfvc]

nailed it, couldn't agree more with your assessment of this training method.

[@b09d4n]

I did MAF for one entire year. I had no gains in speed, absolutely none. I followed also his philosophy on low carbs, good fats, relaxing and keeping the stress at a minim and so on. I became very good at running a Marathon per month at around 4 hours. For a few months now I just renounced at any diet and I introduced hard days (one per week, intervals on treadmill) and the results start to come. So Maffetone is best for over trained athletes like Mark Allen. If you are slow you will remain slow, no matter how much volume you will run at MAF pace. I agree entirely with your thoughts based on my findings.

[@gabrielmaldonado2195]

I agree completely with your optics of MAF training. Personally, running slow has helped me progress but there are times that you just have to feel the pain, not too often though but the body has to know what the race is going to feel like.

[@Runmaerun]

Totally agree that you need to get those fast twitch muscles going. Having a strong deep base is key but also having the high end speed is also important. Thanks for sharing Seth!!

[@salwilliam]

I've been building mileage with MAF over 8 weeks. It’s helped me increase mileage from 22km to 55km without injury or burnout. Great system to help a novice focus on what’s most important: health and consistency. As my fitness improves, I find I crave more variation in training. Like Seth said, MAF is probably best for going from the couch to 10km. But I doubt it’s the best way for anyone reasonably fit to go for a PB or PR or BQ.

[@bijsemwal4343]

So nice of you Seth to mention my name in this vlog🙂🙏.'Bijendra here.. Have tried MAF for long to build aerobic base but for race ready regime I found it better to incorporate speed Workouts.. So the mix worked well.. You are very apt on turnover thing.. Rythem building must be the key to be race ready.. Thanks for your valuable insight.

[@andrewchadwick8405]

QOD: started to run slow to prevent injury while training for my Ironman this year. Then noticed my speed also increased. Read about Phil maffatone and decided to follow his teaching during this winters training base. Can’t wait to see the results. I already feel like things are going in the right direction.

[@75dlow]

As a beginner runner MAF really helped with my base training, instead of running in the red for most of my runs and carb loading, with MAF I could run twice as far with no need for gels and less water also... good way to train as a beginner, pretty sure some elite athletes use version of MAF for preseason Base building in triathlon space

[@seandunlap1743]

I'm using Lydiard these days--- he allows for some higher end aerobic until the time is right. I find Lydiard to help me in the easy days and the base phase (where I am now). This gives me "permission" to run easy and back off when I feel a little itchy to go. I completely agree with Seth's approach that you do need to stress what you plan to stress. I'm not sure MAF is interested in racing?? Even still, It's good to huff and puff ;) whether you are racing or not.

[@raysollarsthehappyjogger5907]

I'm going to follow the old Joe Henderson "Long, Slow, Distance(LSD)" method. I'm 64 and it is all about participation and finishing the race if it is a long one. Race times are quite secondary to simply enjoying the sport. My reasons or "whys" for running are 1. To feel good, 2. To promote health, 3. To have fun. I just joined a local running/jogging club yesterday that runs every Saturday morning. I made a new friend named "Kai" who jogs at my 11 to 12 minute training pace. The club is connected to a legit for real running store and they actually let you test various demo shoes with no obligation to buy on these Saturday morning runs! How cool is that!

[@DanRuns]

I’ve never tried it myself but I’m always open minded to new approaches, even as an experiment.

[@iftomatosareafruitwhyisntk4038]

Dan Runs I think I am going to give it a try to be honest so I can really ramp up my milage safely.

[@DanRuns]

If Tomato's are a fruit why isn't ketchup a jam? Sounds like a good plan. Let me know how you get on

[@brigiddemoor4206]

The two Seth's streching!!!! 💖💖💖

[@Brumiani]

I'm 63 with mild aortic stenosis and actually my pace is about 8 or little less minutes per kilometer and works very well. Nasal breathing without fatigue. Comfortable and no pain.

[@jordanrundell9962]

QOTD: I did MAF training for about 6 months. While I am very much a proponent of MAF training, I will agree with you Seth that after you have that decent aerobic base built, you absolutely need to start doing some speedwork sessions. Many important systems would be missed if you only did Low heartrate training. Lactate Threshold and VO2 max systems, just as an example.

[@nosirrahm]

Jordan Rundell - but MAF does say to add some speed work if you have plateaued. Then return back to strict MAF until you plateau again. Or, the 80/20 rule- 80% MAF.

[@engmlotfi]

Maffetone talks about the aerobic base phase only, says 3-6 month or until you feel you have a plateau, Then Start periodized training but keep easy days easy

[@craigtsmith6957]

It’s important to realise that not everyone will react favourably to the MAF formula. This is because Maffetone developed the formula as a heuristic/ approximation for those athletes that could not afford or want the hassle of a gas analyser test. The approximation is better for Athletes aged in their 20’s. For older athletes the MAF becomes more hit and miss and the variation around the point on Maffetones regression curve is greater and many athletes are either running way too fast or too slow depending on their physiology i.e. actual sugar/ fat burn levels. My MAF should be 115 BPM !-but my lactate threshold is 160 and my aerobic threshold 137 BPM. So, running at 120 BPM is never going to get me anywhere When MAF and your actual sugar/ fat burn align - then you will get great results. If as I just said you are on the extreme of the data point around the MAF approximation - MAF will not work well for you. This explains why there is so much debate on the web. Now Phil Maffetone confesses in the small print that a test is always better (he tested his star athletes; but used MAF for those who did not want to pay for a test). but of course, he is commercially invested in the wide use of his MAF formula. But it is just as inaccurate as all the other age formulae. But I must stress Maffetone is a genius and his training theory is brilliant - if you suspect the pace is too fast or slow - it’s safer to have a scientific number from a test rather than an approximation with a high degree of error; like MAF. this is a video by Matt Koorey he is one of the top Iron Men / Tri coaches in the world. He was actually tested by Maffetones ultra protege Stu Mitleman in 1997 - Matt Koury worked with Brett Sutton legendary coach of Daniella Reif - watch this! kzbin.info/www/bejne/p3qmoGRnnMmnq7s

[@doug8407]

From what I've read, true MAF training is not 100% running at your MAF heartrate all of the time. That is true for the initial aerobic base-building period, which can last quite a while depending on how fit you are (3-6 months). But once your aerobic development plateaus, which you keep track of by running a MAF Test every month or so, you then begin to incorporate anaerobic training and/or start a racing season for 2-3 months. Then you recover and go back to another aerobic base building phase of around 2 months or so, before again doing anaerobic work and racing.

[@cbrattonart]

I’ve read the big yellow book. Maffetone goes as far as say not to lift weights because it takes you heart out of the zone. He stresses building a training plan with no stress. I tried but could not follow it. I could see it for base building over a long period but not for running fast.

[@user-bf6ul8ok1s]

I have been following 'run slow to run fast' philosophy for the last 2 years after I had a bad year that was riddled with injuries because I was running fast and hard all the time. Now, I run by heart rate zones and have been running and feeling the best I have. There are days when i run 2-3 minutes slower because my body needs recovery and I feel the urge the go fact but sticking to the philosophy has allowed me to go from 40 miles avg. weeks to 80 miles an avg. weeks during training blocks in just 2 years.

[@ramonsalvatierrahealer]

Hi seth maf works with aerobic speed, Yuu can run , bike o swim at realy fast paces, without getting out of you aerobic heart rate zone, using the 180-age plus weath and sport background is the certain way to avoid bunr out, and injuries. a big example is mark allen and mike pig

[@Carniolus-BeyondHorizons]

You have a nice running jacket. Cheers from Slovenia. 👍💪😁

[@jimoconnor8597]

QOD: Think this vlog partially missed the mark. MAF training is far more than talked about. Also, Kipchoge run miles at 11:00 and slower. We ALL are running our recovery or easy miles way to fast!

[@Jameswmin]

I’m just addressing the 2nd point here - I don’t know enough about MAF to comment on it. Kipchoge running that slowly is only meaningful to me when I think about my training if I know what proportion of his running he does at that pace. E.g. when Seth talks about running 9 minute pace, I think he’s talking about a once a week recovery run. For those of us who aren’t training every day, that just seems like something we would replace with a rest day. If Kipchoge is running a greater proportion of his training that slowly, then it gets more interesting to me.

[@jimoconnor8597]

@@Jameswmin My point with the second part was to say if the WR holder runs 11:00 miles, most people, when they run recovery runs or easy runs, regardless of how many miles they do in the week, are running to fast. It's the Strava effect. If his MP is 4:38 and mine is 8:00, I should at least be running some miles that are slower than 10:00.

[@topoisomerace]

Kipchoge is not running anywhere close to 11:00 miles in training. His easy pace is about 4:00 per km.

[@jimoconnor8597]

@@topoisomerace Corrected 9;40/mile pace to start easy runs. The overall point is, easy days, easy, hard days, hard. If you run in the middle all the time, your body will be used to being an in the middle runner.

[@coryburns3521]

I actually start my new blocks out like this and coming off of rest periods or injuries. Usually 3-4 weeks just building the base but yeah, after that you gotta step on the gas for sure. As the saying goes, " nothing changes if nothing changes". You can be really good at running slow of that's all you do but that's not most people's plan.

[@Gamer8451]

QOD: Didn't work for me at the very beginning to regain fitness after months of weekly low mileage. I had to run 12min/mile and slower to actually run under my MAF and my hear rate would slowly increase the longer I run even though I'm holding the same pace. So instead what I did was running on high zone 3 pace more often to build leg strength and endurance. After a month, the MAF method started to slowly work for me. Now I could run 9min/mile pace on MAF. Nowadays I run at least 75% of my weekly mileage using the MAF method. Eventually I could run faster with lower heart rate.

[@hackybone]

I've combined MAF with interval/tempo/HMP/MP weekly runs. My biggest takeaway from the training is it builds HR "headroom" when you want to go fast, and recovering on a flat or downhill after climbing is INCREDIBLE. I'm talking like 20 to 30 bpm, 20 or 30 seconds after you've finished the climb. Liked your video!

[@hackybone]

Also, training at different steady HRs is good too! For example, 1 mile warm up at 120 - 130 bpm, then 4 miles at 135 - 140 bpm, then 4 miles at 140 - 145 bpm. I'm 37 years old, and I love playing with different HRs 👍

[@paulscomputerandradio6201]

I'm a new, older (60 years) runner and it may work once you have some muscle memory and a minimal aerobic base. But from scratch it is pretty much impossible to run slow enough to keep it in the zone (I tried slowing down to 15 min miles and was 20 over). I'm either 20 beats below or 20 over. Shifted to perceived effort at a speed that I could have a conversation at.

[@sonsoftheedelweiss72]

Hi Paul. I’m 60 and just started training/ running again and I agree 100% with you. I was a triathlete in 20’s and early 30’s I quit around 32 and due to life and raising my kids hv not ran or trained in all those years. My heart rate zone is 120 and it is almost 😅 impossible to maintain that unless I am walking. The best I can do after 3-4 weeks is 16:40 mm for .30 minutes.(walking 90%}. Kinda depressing . I used Maffetone when I was younger and a good athlete and it worked greatly. Has your times picked up any while remaining in tour hr zone?

[@shlamalama]

For the record, MAF stands for maximum aerobic function. It’s not MAFF, it’s MAF. Just happens to also be the first three letters of his last name.

Nice jacket! Greetings from Slovenia

[@topoisomerace]

I trained with low intensity for months and got worse. Unless you dramatically increase your volume, that drop in intensity is going to set you back. I think there are more efficient ways for weekend warrior types to train.

[@MrRennieFrumpkin]

QD: totally agree re MAF - thinks it’s great for easy/recovery days but you need that 20% at higher intensities if you’re looking to improve times etc. People definitely get some good results from doing MAF exclusively but I think they’d see even more improvements if they varied their training.

[@scotmoser8716]

As a competitive runner for fifty years , I agree it’s similar to the early phases of Lydiard. The one area people really miss is by doing recovery to fast.0The key thing with the Maafetone thing not discussed is tying it a 30/40/30 diet. Principle is to burn fat as fuel source. The other thing that I think Maffeton also needs is volume. It’s had success with IRONMAN triathletes. Mark Allen six time winner of Hawaii Ironman World Championship had great success with Maffetone plan. That of course was under direct supervision of Dr. Maffetone!

[@daveebreo8753]

So I use MAF to build my aerobic base. Say I got a 5k I want to PB in 16 weeks away. I will do a beginner 8 week training plan for a 10k MAF only (3 days per week running) Once finished. I will jump into a regular 8 week 5k training plan (running only 3 days per week - speed, tempo, long). I found this worked amazing for me coming back from injury. I also bike, swim, and lift on my other days as well.

[@anthonyescareno]

You hit the nail on the head! Great video!

[@JoeMac1983]

I've been doing this for 10 days now. Being almost 40yo, my body always is sore in the mornings from running and I always take a few days off to recover... but those few days turn into a few weeks. For the last 10 days I've ran every day, twice a day for 30 minutes each time. I'm keeping my heart rate between 125 and 130. I do not feel sore at all in the mornings and therefore this method has allowed me to build consistency. After a month of this, I plan on incorporating something a bit faster every 5 days or so to spice things up and then we'll go from there.

[@iberiksoderblom]

Did a lot of Long Slow Distance training in the 1980's. Doing it regularly for a couple of years, builds a durable base and protects against injuries. It actually is a good way to repair the body after injury. The key is keeping slow and relaxed, keeping good technique and run for long enough (in time !). What you now call Mafetone (for some reason...?) was used even before the 1980's. Combine it with Fartlek training.

[@michalduris8644]

The Maffetone Method is great for starters. In December 2020 I´ve commited to run most of my runs in Maff HR (152). It was hard for me to even jog after few km´s. The pace was absurd like 7:00 - 7:30 m per km (11:20 - 12:00 m per mile). At that time 152 BPM was right in the center of my Zone 2. Nowadays as my resting heat rate dropped my zones changed as well. 152 BPM is no longer easy for me. Well it feels easy but its already in the beginning of my Zone 3. My pace is around 5:05 - 5:15 m per km or (8:10 - 8:25 m per mile) which is a significant improvement. But nowadays I run most of my easy runs under the Maff BPM at around 144-148 to keep them in the Zone 2.

[@dkw4par]

Really good in-depth analysis and not being bias on just devoting 100% on MAF. I’m about to hit the MTB trails on MAF interval and I’m very much in favor to also mix in Speed once in awhile to get that high turnover or cadence/power. I think this is more inline with the 80/20 (Z2/FTP+) method instead of MAF. Cheers!

[@richardrankin7488]

I am a firm believer in what you have set out. Want to race fast? Got to train fast! If you train solely at 9 minute a mile pace there is no way you will race at 7 minute a mile pace. Up to 20% of your training should be at a fast pace that is at or faster than the pace you want to race at.

[@owenthomas6337]

Saw the vlog earlier today. Read a little on the maffetone website. Decided to break out the chest-strap and do the MAF 3 mile test on the treadmill this afteroon. First test was 9:40, 9:45 and 10:02 minute miles. My goodness, it was HARD to keep my heart rate down at 135 while actually running - even with a shortened stride, it felt like a comically slow cadence. But am curious enough that I might just do this for the next couple of months, and see how it changes my 135bpm running speed.

[@nam6910]

I have to walk most of my run to stay under 142, I am going to stick with this hopefully I will see an improvement quickly. I am 50 so 126 to 142 is where I should be.

[@luanjot1]

Man, I couldn’t agree more! Put that in a contract and I’ll sign in the dotted line!

[@mattpotter8725]

A while ago I tried running very slowly for a month or two because I felt my heart rate was always too high when I ran. It just didn't work. I agree with the comments made in this video. You need to work on your aerobic base to start with, and you should have one long slow run per week (maybe more depending on your goal) where you don't overly stress the body, but if you train running slow all the time your body will get very good at running very slow, but will be terrible when wanting to run faster. If you want to run fast, whether a 5k, 10k, Half Marathon, or Marathon you need to follow a plan that involves speedwork that is appropriate to the distance you are running and the pace you are aiming to run the race at, for the time you want to achieve. If your body, your heart, and your muscles aren't used to tolerating the stresses put on it for shorter periods of time at race pace you aren't going to be able to run at that pace for longer periods of time. It's as simple as that. From what it sounds like is that this method is more about training the body to lose fat (maybe), and isn't aimed at running fast, and training to run as fast as you can in a race. I agree that it could be used for a couch to 5k plan, but I really think it's not even good enough for that. It's really only good for someone who has never run, or is coming back to running after years of not doing much physical exercise to get the body used to running again. Sure the plan may work for you to lose weight by light exercise and the suggested diet, but this won't set you up to run fast.

[@mattpotter8725]

Can I just add that after giving up on only running low intensity runs to try and lower my heart rate I tried other plans with a variety of types of runs - tempo, interval, long slow runs, and got fitter, and hey presto my high rate is now lower when out on runs, so I'd take these kind of plans with a huge pinch of salt.

[@EdwinChenLoo]

There is a potential fallacy to "if you train slow all the time your body will get very good at running very slow, but will be terrible when wanting to run faster". If your body gets more efficient at running it will allow you to run more efficiently at any speed. Now, you could argue running at race speed always will allow you to be the most efficient at that speed but you would be subjecting your body to more stress, be prone to more injuries, and be more tired. When one trains for a marathon, not all training sessions are for 26.2mi for that reason.

[@mattpotter8725]

@@EdwinChenLoo I think it is mostly accepted by nearly every coach I've heard talk on the topic that you should do the majority of your training at slow paces to build your aerobic base, and as you say not to stress the body too much, whether it be your muscles and joints or your heart, and overall physical and mental being. But they also say that it is equally important to have other types of runs in your training so that your body gets used to running at faster paces, whether it be interval sessions or fartlek runs (where you incorporate short bursts of pace into longer runs), or even tempo runs, but what they don't say is run every workout slowly. If you do that when it comes to running faster your body won't have developed the aerobic pathways to cope. As I said I've tried the plan where you run slow for months on end and it just left me lethargic. I switched to a more balanced training plan, with most of it low intensity, but with some faster sessions built in, and I am running better than ever. I wouldn't advise anyone to do hard workouts all the time either, doing that will just burn you out, and probably get you injured. It's also probably not good for you mentally. When I was younger and just running for fitness without knowing what I was doing I'd push on nearly every run I did and I didn't improve that much, so I'd definitely advocate a more balanced approach. In the end running is supposed to be fun and I enjoy mixing up my training. What I didn't enjoy was having to run painfully slow just to keep my heart rate down, or because some plan for a marathon (or half marathon) time said so. I think going on feel is a lot better for most runs. That way on days where you aren't feeling great it doesn't matter if you're not quite hitting the prescribed pace, but some days you get back, upload your run, and are pleasantly surprised at how well you did.

[@cebukid70]

I do a variation of MAF all the time, but simplify it to just staying with my "zone 2" HR. During "off-season", I do 90/10 (sometimes 99/1...lol)... and if I'm training for something 80/20. I also read that Lydiard (sp?) employed this concept and that Maffetone just put his name on it. It seems like seasoned sub-elites and elites like Seth don't really "need" MAF training, as their aerobic engine is already world class caliber.

[@rikhartman7476]

Totally agree with you Seth! I don’t think it will be for performance runners. But I’m sure a lot of people will find it a nice way to train without the hard efforts (and lesser chance of injuries)

[@scotteek]

The hard and fast 180 minus age doesn’t work for me, everyone’s heart is different. I’m 41 and still max out above 190. I found the Karvonen zone method lined up well as a guide.

[@estarr2243]

Im the same way. Except I can still get over 200 and in 39. Maf would be a walking pace for me.

[@arjanpetersen]

Well it is slightly different with max 190. Which I have as max as well. Important thing is that you find your zones and train n zone2. Which most probably is below 130 for you.

[@arjanpetersen]

Tacoma Offroad higher heart rate doesn’t mean that your zone 2 max gets higher. The MAF way of calculating. 180- age might still be your zone 2 max. For most runners it means almost crawling. But it needs to be trained for 1-2 years.

[@cebukid70]

I agree... just like everyone's maximum heart rate is different, everyone's "MAF Formula " will also differ. I don't like that "one size fits all " for MAF heart rate....no statistical or scientific basis for it.

[@scotteek]

@@arjanpetersen but it should do, Z2 should be a percentage of your max, rather than a fixed number based off an arbitrary number. HR zones should be a very personal calculation based off you particular heart. One size does not fit all. As an example, my Z2 is up to 154, which is a very happy bouncy conversation pace. Marathon HR is about 172 without blowing up.

[@Jeremy-vf7su]

Hey Seth- I’d encourage you to read primal endurance. I feel like you’re giving MAF a little bit of a misconstrued summary. There’s definitely a lot of heart rate work…but there’s a ton of emphasis on aenorobic work that they credit to the success of the athletes. Thinking Mike Pigg in the 90s.

[@owenwilliams9582]

Thanks for the post, agree steady runs which are well below race pace are essential for recovery and as a engine base for beginners,. But ideally you need to, as some time speed up the training to get faster. Frank Horwill used the 5 pace system, which involved running at 5 different paces to improve speed, as well as having steady runs in the plan. Just my thoughts having done 2.23 @ London.

[@waltjedzejec2275]

There are two dials: volume and intensity. The shorter the distance the more one has to crank the intensity dial, the longer the distance the more important it is to crank up the volume dial. Pure MAF is good for couch to 5k and triathlons and longer ultras.

[@stevewooldridge2403]

Hooray - some common sense! Like many regimes, MAF does have some good stuff, like you said - I know I sometimes do my long runs and recovery runs too quickly, and running to heart rate is a way to slow these down. By co-incidence, I did just that yesterday, 7 miles long recovery at heart rate of 135, and averaged 8.15 pace against my marathon pace of 7.30, and after a very hard long run Sunday. Still too fast, so not sure what that proves - but then I have been running for a few years, and am marathon ready (race in 12 days). Make of that what you will - I plan to keep doing slower runs at the beginning of my training block and then adding in more tempo, threshold and intervals as I have done for a while - i am still doing PRs at 57 years old!

[@LettuceHands]

I have had success. After about 6 months I was able to train my body to rely less on glycogen for energy and my long run/ultra distances have increased significantly without having to pump calories into my system. I wouldn't say I am speedy by any chance but I stand the test of time. So it definitely has it's benefits. I agree that it can be used in conjunction with hard training to take speed to the next level.

[@RunningOtaku]

I completely agree with you on MAF. For 90%+ of runners, MAF would make them into better runners for all distances. But for those who are at the top of their age group, they’ll need to incorporate tempo/threshold/VO2Max training to be competitive.

[@Hillrunner50]

MAF training does include threshold/tempo/speed training. It's not all about the 180 formula. That's just a part of it.

[@cebukid70]

Do you utilize the STRYD more to gauge effort and training zones?

[@RunningOtaku]

Herbinator_88 I use it to guide my training when running/racing on hills and when doing temp runs on the road.

[@dewaynescott5114]

I tried MAF from April to Oct. And I agree with your commentary it does impact turn over if you just stick to MAF. I am now trying to recoop some of the turn over I lost. The only way to fix this is to do some type of Hybrid MAF + high turn over. And that is done via recover. Commentary spot on. Sidenote I chuckled also.

[@michaelormondrobinson]

Right on the money, Seth. I’d like to hear from a MAF runner who has a killer kick at the end of a 10km. Surely you have to train all systems if you’re gonna race. Easy days easy, Hard days hard. Recover Well. Jack Daniels seems to have a more thoroughly scientific basis to his VDOT training method, and has a very good way of relating it.

[@EwenThompson]

Seth, I've had success with MAF training in the past and am doing it again now. It's not actually "running slow to race fast", more like "running in the MAF heart rate zone to race fast." It's only in the early stages of MAF training that paces are very slow. As adaptation occurs, paces become faster. For yourself, once adapted your pace at HR 146 might be around 3:45 to 4:00 per km, not exactly slow. A good example of success from Floris Gierman's website is Jonathan Walton who has run a 2:29 marathon at age 50.