Several Groups Back Trent Palmer in His Fight Against the FAA

KZbinr Trent Palmer is continuing his fight against the FAA, now with help from EAA and AOPA. www.avweb.com/aviation-news/g...
Join the channel to watch LIVE every Monday at 8PM ET or to see full episodes of The Mover and Gonky Show. You can also join in on LIVE Q&As with the Mover Mailbag: / @cwlemoine
Every Monday at 8PM ET, Mover (F-16, F/A-18, T-38, 737, helicopter pilot and wanna be race car driver) and Gonky (F/A-18, T-38, A320, dirt bike racer, and awesome dad) discuss everything from aviation to racing to life and anything in between. Send your topic ideas to cwlemoine at cwlemoine.com!
www.cwlemoine.com
The appearance of U.S. Department of Defense (DoD) visual information does not imply or constitute DoD endorsement.
Views presented are my own and do not represent the views of DoD or its Components.

[@wiljam1968]

I’ve had FAA inspectors straight up tell me that their job isn’t to educate, it’s to regulate. In my 45 years of flying, I’ve met exactly two FAA employees that were worth a damn. The FAA’s job gets easier the fewer planes that fly. They’re the people who can’t make it in the real world. They’re badge-heavy and vindictive.

[@photo01aviation]

I’m sorry you have had those experiences - I’ve had quite the opposite experience. I think it’s easy to hate on the FAA but were we in their shoes (ie having to both regulate and maintain safety standards across the US) I think it would be easier to realize what a different problem set it is.

[@MACE1-1]

@@photo01aviation - There are good people in the FAA however the main blob that comprises the FAA is government retirement community at its finest...

[@hmccall3]

There has never been a situation bad enough that the Government couldn't make worse.

[@Taidaan]

Government: If you don't like our problems, just wait until you see our solutions!

[@NASWOG]

Katrina was a perfect example of

[@shocktide6428]

I absolutely agree with this, especially the FAA; I find this situation ridiculous and a "severe punishment will deter others" stance. That's ALWAYS the easiest route for them to go!

[@MACE1-1]

Kind of like Delta Airlines - "fix it till its broke"

[@ronjones-6977]

Old Ronnie Reagan had it spot on.

[@JackofNothingess]

As this continues to escalate, when you go beyond the point of no return, things get even more messy. The FAA won't back down, and the bigger this goes, there's greater even implications on things such as oversight , regulation, Chevron deference, etc. Mover's right on that point.

[@MACE1-1]

I've had Atlanta Georgia FSDO employees tell me they use KZbin to track violators of FAA regs...Chew on that for a minute...

[@davedoe6445]

yeah the FAA just wants to carve out power for itself; in this case - the right to declare that anyone flying under 500 ft for any reason is a violator of national airspace regs

[@6Sally5]

I have a PPL and also fly r/c airplanes. I used to belong to Aeronautical Models Assn (AMA), but left them when the FAA deemed that all r/c aircraft over 1/2 pounds must register with the FAA and mark all craft with the registration number. Cost is $5. I absolutely refuse to comply…too much government is in my life already.

[@MACE1-1]

I remember the fat-tards at the AMA so pumped about meeting with the big FAA because it gave them "image"...What a bunch of dopes. We used to fly RC Turbine jets and I helped start one of the biggest RC Jet clubs in the Southeast. We were rolling eyes at the AMA 25 years ago with the sloppy image they produced. People eventually got smart about it...Then enter the FAA another government waste career organization. Not everyone in the FAA is a dope. Lot of smart people there but as a whole they are not well regarded. FAA is over run with politics and career preservationists...

[@ChucksSEADnDEAD]

I hardly want to defend the FAA here but breakthroughs that allowed for affordable consumer drones caused that. Model aircraft were just collateral damage.

[@MrIdasam]

The FAA says that you have to get a registration number/N number so that they can take it away from you and tell you that you can no longer fly RC planes.

[@jamessavage8220]

If I had to venture a guess, and it's purely a guess, I would say that because of Trent's flying style... Super STOL, lots of off field, adventure flying vs. straight lace, tarmac to tarmac hops... FAA wants to make a point that "hot dogs" are not allowed to put a plane anywhere they can fit it. I think Trent did everything legal. I also think that there's no way Big Brother is going to back away and they'll never stop watching every move he makes for the rest of his flying career.

[@cleekmaker00]

I posit that this wouldn't have been an Issue if he wouldn't have posted the Video in the first place. And if GA is Dead and the FAA doesn't care about GA, then who's giving out the Licenses? I mean, they give Licenses to 'pilots' who kill themselves because they aren't familiar with the workings of their Aircraft and are more concerned with the proper position of their GoPro so they'll look good. The Result? They lawn dart a Debonair right into the Ground @ 11.5K fpm & 228 KIAS.

[@jamessavage8220]

@@cleekmaker00 I would disagree, in so much that the complaint stemmed from a neighbor of Trent's friend and and a rather poor camera angle from a CCTV that was recorded to a cell phone that doesn't adequately depict the approach or surroundings. Having viewed a lot of Trent's videos, not being a STOL or adventure pilot myself, I can't say I see him fiddling with camera equipment. I do see a lot of attention to detail and him verbalizing the exact types of things I, as a pilot, am thinking while I'm making my approaches, albeit his techniques are very different when he's on uncontrolled, off airport fields. Ultimately, to the point of whether a pilot is familiar with their aircraft and will end up dead because of it... I mean, I'm not sure who we're talking about but, that certainly happens. That's why there are rules in place to minimize the chance of injuring other people, which it appears Trent palmer followed to the letter.

[@karlw7764]

There is no evidence that what Palmer did was legal. I suspect that it was probably a violation, and if not, then a poor decision. The FAA is required to investigate all complaints, and they dont want a bunch of youtubers thinking they can land planes in each other's yards whenever they like. Someone pull up the docket and let's look at the site in question and see if it seems like a smart place to land an aircraft. My guess is no reasonable person would choose to land there. They are clearly trying to make an example of him and the message is: straighten up and fly right. If you are in a suburban subdivision with 10 acre lots, maybe that isnt the best place to be doing your backcountry style landings. On the other hand, he may have been perfectly legal, but that plane has waas GPS screens everywhere and it would be very easy for him to provide the position data to prove his innocence. He did not. I agree the punishment seems severe but this is the same guy who was throwing drones out of his moving plane and flying them, and landing on an RC strip. The FAA called him about that stuff, too.

[@Mike-pn3eg]

Trent’s being railroaded 💯

[@AdamKeele]

I’ve watched a lot of his videos, and with some of the stuff he’s done in the past toes the line of questionable safety. His water skiing and other stuff, combined with his audience, I bet they decided to make an example because if his influence. I also bet they don’t think he actually was planning to land there and was just show boating, but that’s a hard one to prove with the type of aircraft he has and his experience with short takeoffs and landings. But I also felt they could have done this differently, especially after the appeal. With all of the people on KZbin trying to make money off of their flying, I’m sure they don’t want people to get the idea they can toe the line of safety to get views, especially after the idiot that jumped out of his plane.

[@justinc5356]

Agree. They are trying to make a point, this isn’t the first time with Trent.

[@MACE1-1]

Spot on! Nothing threatens a government more than the possibility of "loss of control". Any group of like-minded people, in this case pilots, are the biggest threat to any government institution...Palmer has a huge following and those in power may not like it. They find a top guy and make an example of him...

[@bradleypoehler9609]

The sad thing is the guy that jumped out of his plane already has his ticket back. If they'll let a guy like that get his PPL back they have no business messing with Palmer. Just my 2 cents

[@M1Tommy]

No bureaucrat can utter ,"I was wrong.", ever. "...self-licking ice-cream cone...", outstanding !

[@MrIdasam]

More like self-licking turds.

[@cup_and_cone]

One thing you guys didn't mention was prior incidents and how much that effected the FAA's perception of intent here. Trent has been in trouble with the FAA before (I believe water skiing his plane with a passenger onboard is one example). I'm not saying one way or the other, but that could have also been a factor in their ruling.

[@photo01aviation]

It absolutely figures into their response! Someone so forward-facing will absolutely attract more scrutiny, especially when they purposely live on the edge of safe and legal for clicks and likes..

[@WestCoastVisitor]

Watch the video they have. Just sayin'.

[@TeemarkConvair]

prior ANYTHING should have NO bearing on this separate situation!

[@MACE1-1]

It doesn't in any other court case. A thug off the streets selling crack gets less scrutiny.. @@TeemarkConvair

[@5.56Media]

Describing the U.S. government as "a self-licking ice cream cone" is probably the best thing I've heard in months! I'm stealing that phrase. Thanks! lolol

[@MrIdasam]

More like self-licking turds.

[@MACE1-1]

That's hilarious

[@azzir325]

As a GA pilot, but more so as an RC fixed wing pilot, the FAA is a stupid bully.

[@crazypetec-130fe7]

FAA: "We're not happy until you're not happy."

[@flyfreak23]

Here's a recap I had read online a while back from a popular aviation forum: I am Trent's attorney. What happened in his case was so appalling, I do not know where to begin. But to call his trial a circus demeans the circus. Nicolae and Elena Ceaușescu got a fairer trial than Trent did. Here are but a few examples: - The center piece of the FAA case was a video that caught a glimpse of Trent's airplane during his low inspection pass. The FAA destroyed/deleted that video before trial, but every FAA witness was permitted to testify (over my continuous objection) about what the video allegedly showed even thought we could not see it. - FAA Counsel during the course of the proceedings objected to a question that I ask their "expert" relative to the flap system Trent's aircraft used. Her objection? She did not understand the question. When the judge asked her source of confusion, she asked "what's a flap?" This attorney has been with the FAA for 22 years. Remember that the justification for all administrative agencies is that they are repositories of subject matter "expertise." Spare me. - Their "expert pilot" had an unremarkable flying career who never made any more than 50K as a pilot and doubled his salary when he jumped to the FAA 18 years ago. He was the individual who the FAA put up to second guess Trent about his off-airport operations. He had not touched an aircraft in 18 years. He knew nothing about Trent's plane, could not tell you its performance characteristics, what type it was, its engine, etc. He conducted no investigation and read no materials which would have informed him in that regard. He too knew nothing of Trent's flying experience. He had never observed Trent flying and made no efforts or requests to do so. I asked him whether or not it was a fair statement that the "appropriateness" of a landing site is a function of both the aircraft performance and pilot experience? He agreed that was a fair statement. He too agreed that a low inspection pass was "necessary" to conduct an off-airport landing. Still, he offered all manner of testimony about what would have happened had its engined had failed (and BTW, its a KitFox V. I have seen helicopters take more distance to land) and the (in)appropriateness of Trent's chosen landing site (over my objection, of course). Oh, and according to this "pilot expert," when you are doing a low inspection pass for an off airport landing, you still must stay at least 500 feet away from "vehicles, vessels, structures and persons" on the ground. Riddle me this batman, how the F do you inspect a runway surface from 500 feet away?" The FAA "pilot expert" too boasted in his resume (which I secured in discovery) that when he does a good job for the FAA, he gets - and I quote verbatim - "accolades, time-of, and cash awards." Part of his job is to hang pilots in enforcement actions. I asked him on cross, "if this case goes the FAA's way, will you get "accolades, time-off or a cash award." Objection. Sustained. If I had brought this "expert" to court, I would have been laughed out of the door. At the FAA, this is business as usual. I have NEVER seen such institutional bias in my life. This is hardly an independent expert who bring his wealth of experience to bear upon a set of facts to reach an informed opinion. He is whore, and an indentured one at that. The FAA keeps food in his belly and a roof over his head. What do you think he is going to say in these proceedings? From a few cubicles away .... "hey Bob, what are you doing today?" "Nothing why?" "We got this enforcement case and need you to testify against a pilot." "Sure. Be right there." Apparently, if you hold a pilots certificate and work for the FAA, you are an "expert" about all things piloting. Your actual experience matters not. Oh, I did ask him on cross in all the times he has testified for the FAA, how many times did he testify that the pilot did nothing wrong. Wait for it .... 0. I will post his resume later so you can see it with your own eyes. And folks, I am just scratching the surface here. If I sound like I am disgusted, it is because I am. Oh, and let me too add that this is not the only matter I have going now where the a pilot has been violated for doing EXACTLY what the FAA advised him to do. It's getting old folks. Trent is a very nice and earnest young man who has a passion for aviation who is VERY good at what he does and is by any reasonable measure, an excellent pilot, especially when it comes to off-airport operations. He simply does not deserve this.

[@ILruffian]

The concept of any "expert" witness whose experience does not involve at least 30% of time testifying for either side is very suspect. The opinion of someone who has testified only for one side (e.g. the prosecution) is entire career is worthless, IMO.

[@xenozombie6200]

It's the old "We investigated ourselves and found we did nothing wrong," thing. It permeates authoritative institutions, government institutions especially.

[@Autocross7]

Following this closely and Trent did nothing wrong or out of the ordinary. He was looking at a RC field, but he was flying a Super STOL that has landed in less than 50 feet. The issue is there was no actual due process and the FAA is out of line. The asswipe neighbor pushed politics.

[@TheJustinJ]

No. You are wrong. (Let me try to explain). The FARs state in no uncertain terms: § 91.119 Minimum safe altitudes: General. Except when necessary for takeoff or landing, no person may operate an aircraft below the following altitudes: (a) Anywhere. An altitude allowing, if a power unit fails, an emergency landing without undue hazard to persons or property on the surface. (b) Over congested areas. Over any congested area of a city, town, or settlement, or over any open air assembly of persons, an altitude of 1,000 feet above the highest obstacle within a horizontal radius of 2,000 feet of the aircraft. (c) Over other than congested areas. An altitude of 500 feet above the surface, except over open water or sparsely populated areas. In those cases, the aircraft may not be operated closer than 500 feet to any person, vessel, vehicle, or structure. ^This is The LAW. Trent Palmer had read and was following the guidelines from the FAA "Off Airport Ops Guide" which states: Low Level: Make a pass to check for cuts in gravel, rocks, dips, bumps, etc., that can’t be seen from directly above. It is important to be at an angle to the runway, not above it. Certain light conditions can make a bad site seem good. Check and double check any area not used before, or lo- cations that have had high water since the last landing. Make another pass and roll one tire for a few feet to get a feel for the landing surface. When the FAA contacted Trent Palmer based on (now known to be shoddy) Video evidence. They ASKED HIM what he was doing? And he told them HE WAS MAKING A LOW PASS. This is the REASON they have him dead to rights. Because the FARS state IT MUST BE 500' UNLESS TAKING OFF OR LANDING. If Trent Palmer has stated that HE WAS LANDING and chose to go-around due to runway conditions or whatever, THE FAA WULD HAVE NO CASE. But HE ADMITTED to them that he DID buzz the area, near homes, near that propane tank, and did not intend to land! This is in conjunction to several of his online group including himself being investigated for Water-skiing in front of the ritzy boat club and a dock full of millionaires who don't like airplanes near their Lake Tahoe. Like, HELLO! Dont talk to the police. Dont talk to the FAA. Get a lawyer. Anything You say can and will be used against you. And it will never be used in your favor!

[@MatthijsvanDuin]

@@TheJustinJ Making a low-pass *was necessary for landing* to verify the safety of the intended landing strip as per the FAA guidelines you just quoted.

[@jmorrison5206]

“Except when necessary for takeoff or landing“ That’s then phrase you’re looking for, bro

[@thomaskohler4257]

That’s the problem: interpretation

[@Jack-Tactical]

Why would he be landing at an RC field? FAA has been dogging RC flyers over BS despite RC flyers having a very good safety record. But then you have this guy that’s going to fly low passes over an RC runway? And if he smacks an RC plane who will be blamed and what will the headline be? He shouldn’t be doing passes to check a landing site unless he intends to land. Aside from an emergency why would he have any intent to land on an RC field on someone else’s property? Sorry, I have trouble believing his story. And this is from someone who completely detests the FAA for doing their best to destroy a hobby I love.

[@d.winter1106]

As far as i know besides this all being ridiculous Trent is also not accepting the suspension of his license because then there would be a reference case that would effectively render inspection passes illegal in the future

[@ph5915]

I have been following Trent and side with him, any prudent pilot should make a visual pass over an unknown field to evaluate if it is safe to land, this is definite FAA overeach. However, I had an experience with an FAA investigation back in Nov, 2011. I was a recently minted private pilot, was off this week and it was a beautiful, crisp, CAVU day. I went to my airport and practiced some manuevers and landings and just happened to be pointing northerly and I could clearly see the Pottstown, PA power plant stacks, some 30 miles directly away, and I thought it's an awesome day, I'll just run uo there, land, and fly back...Well, I didn't do much of any prechecks for airspace, I had a portable GPS in the plane but the antenna was not working, I didn't pay attention to the radio until I got close to the Pottstown airport. When I landed the FBO called and said I needed to park and call a couple folks. Uh Oh! Quaking in my boots. I called ATC and Secret Service. Pres. Obama had been visiting downtown Philly that morning and there was a TFR, and wouldn't you know it, the airport is like 28 miles out from the center, within the 30 mi radius! So I asked what do I do now and SS said "Oh, just fly home the way you came, the Pres. left about 30 min ago! (but the time window of the TFR was still active ...UGH. .I did file a NASA ASRS Report as soon as I had gotten homeSo I ended up talking to ATC and got a lawyer thru AOPA and ultimately sat on a conference call with the lawyer and an FAA lawyer and it was cordial and no big deal, I was fully honest and fessed up that I didn't do a preflight, because initially I had intended just to remain near my airport down in Delaware. So there is a note in my file, no fines, no limitations, no extra training... But I felt everyone was more than fair... Now I'm out of the Wilmington, DE airport and Pres. Biden visits home...OFTEN, and this airport is smack-dab center of the TFR! LOL. I'm pretty paranoid since then about TFRs especially, and they always nab some poor shmuck that was unaware, I don't think anyone has ever been intercepted that was actually intending harm. Oh well. I just wanted to share the folks in my case treated me fairly.

[@IRAMightyPirate]

7:00 Agreed 100%, this is just the FAA saving face regardless of whether they're right or wrong.

[@eljuano28]

FAA motto: "We're not happy 'til you're not happy." Trent Palmer is no Trevor Jacobs.

[@spacedmanspiff1543]

No kidding...

[@dennyliegerot4021]

Trent followed the FAAs own guidelines and was punished using corrupted evidence.

[@SoloRenegade]

@@richardlincoln8438 Trent's past has nothing to do with the FAA banning go-arounds.

[@stevespra1]

You hit the nail on the head C.W.. The neighbor complained to a friend in the FAA and instead of explaining the law to his friend, the FAA employee sided with and got in the middle of domestic dispute between neighbors. Now the FAA and NTSB are sticking up for the government employee no matter what. Now, instead of everyone learning from the situation, we have more damage to the FAA / Airmen relationship.

[@jrod_pilot_miami]

For the record, Reagan NEVER said “I’m from the government and I’m here to help.” The exact quote is “The nine most terrifying words in the English language are: ‘I’m from the government and I’m here to help.’”

[@CWLemoine]

Yes, I know. I did not say he said that verbatim. 🤦‍♂️

[@jrod_pilot_miami]

@@CWLemoine was not a criticism. Simply, most of your viewers are not old enough to know the difference.

[@SoloRenegade]

@@jrod_pilot_miami exactly, we have to give the full context to new people learning for the first time.

[@Blackcloud_Garage]

The FAA could care less about GA. The only thing they care about is commercial aviation and how much they can regulate it. If GA went away overnight I don’t think the FAA would even notice. The only people that care about GA are the DPE’s that are scalping people for $1000.00 check rides. The entire system needs to be overhauled (vary few people in leadership positions are even commercial rated pilots).

[@mattlewis1063]

The FAA wont back down to avoid admitting they are wrong and to avoid mixed messages. The FAA failed my medical due to a medication. I was grounded unless i ceased the medication. My doctor agreed, I stopped, provided extra testing, etc. What happened? The FAA still grounded me for three years. I can reapply in March but there is zero guaranteed they will approve me this time.

[@jm32145]

Our experience with our local FSDO has largely been supportive and helpful. We had them out to our EAA meeting a few months ago and they echoed the comments that they want to educate not punish if possible.

[@pitts64lb]

Those who can’t do, teach.

[@asquare9316]

@@pitts64lb In order to teach STEM subjects, one has to know how to do and how to teach. You are just repeating an incorrect statement.

[@photo01aviation]

@@pitts64lbBy that logic those who took of their time to reach you “couldn’t do” the thing? The experience required to work as an inspector is pretty staggering.

[@jmorrison5206]

It’s an adage. It has roots in reality, just like stereotypes. Neither applies to every situation. Some only apply narrowly. Simmer down there, teacher.

[@yurinator4411]

7:58 Someone else said it better... “The bureaucracy is expanding to meet the needs of the expanding bureaucracy.” ― Oscar Wilde

[@jerseyshoredroneservices225]

Also... Power tends to corrupt; absolute power corrupts absolutely An observation that a person's sense of morality lessens as his or her power increases. The statement was made by Lord Acton, a British historian of the late nineteenth and early twentieth centuries.

[@parkebridgeman7223]

As someone who’s met Trent IRL (I bought his old Polaris Ranger) he was a very down to earth guy and a good person to make small talk with. I’m fully backing him in this case

[@paulm749]

Gonky is correct - the FAA has been trying to kill off GA for years, or at least make it so small and restricted that they can mostly ignore it. Too many in the FAA seem to have the attitude that having to deal with GA is beneath them and just a distraction from their more serious work with commercial aviation.

[@jonintheredZ06]

I dunno about the "beneath them" part, my bet is they want to do away with GA because there are more incidents and as a former employee of a government agency I can attest that many people working in government will bend over backwards and jump through as many hoops as necessary to avoid having to actually work.

[@JonWMeyer]

I too think what Trent did was fine. But, for the sake of argument, let’s assume it really was a violation. One reason they might have come down harder on him or that sometime back he had a pervious violation. IIRC, he was video recorded waterskiing his plane while he had a passenger on board. That time they slapped his hand, a warning or some sort of probation, I think.

[@pitts64lb]

Once the ball gets rolling, the admin types just line up.

[@owenmerrick2377]

If I remember, the NTSB's stated goal was "to be the best place to work for in the federal government'.....nuff said.

[@MrAndeev8]

Unfortunatly they educate everyone else by making an example of those they can make one out of

[@tombrenemanMt]

Self licking icecream cone, perfect analogy!

[@tonyandrus6432]

You guys know general aviation, I think getting Trent Palmer or MIKE PATEY on for a interview would a awesome video!

[@pitts64lb]

Ever met anyone from the FAA? Definitely the bottom of the food chain.

[@NASWOG]

Mover, i’m a commercial/ instrument pilot (piper superstar) mainly as a hobby, and an E-6 in the Navy reserves (former active). Used my Gi bill at a part 141 school. I’ve been looking at going the ATP route again. Would it be awkward flying with junior and senior officers who also fly civilian side? Have you ran across this scenario?

[@thomaskohler4257]

Even the rescue helicopter that landed on our airfield was disturbing the neighborhood and they complained about

[@TheFloozi]

It's called a PSL(Precautionary Search & Landing) we were taught in Australia according to CASA Syllabus to become a CPL A holder.

[@SoloRenegade]

it's also how they teach us to check the winds, check the landing field for obstacles, and to perform a go-around in the US.

[@JCtheMusicMan_]

I can’t seem to get past the “self licking ice cream cone” 🤔🤣 It had me rolling until I tried to imagine how I would market the idea 🤣

[@glennwatson]

My understanding the FAA evidence was a video of a video recording. Eg grainy dodgy video tape. The NTSB judge removed it from evidence but used it in their judgment still.

[@glennwatson]

@@richardlincoln8438 I imagine his previous incidents are why the FAA didn’t do education. The video being used for the decision does sounds a bit dodgy.

[@SoloRenegade]

@@richardlincoln8438 Trent's past has nothing to do with Go-arounds being made illegal.

[@SoloRenegade]

@@richardlincoln8438 Doesn't matter if you're right about that or not. What the FAA did was WRONG. We are fighting what the FAA did.

[@GlideYNRG]

Thought Trevor Jacobs took up the FAA's naughty list for a while...

[@craigsanders6925]

@@richardlincoln8438 Yet Jacobs already has his private back before he goes to jail.

[@paulc1173]

I FORGOT C.W. is the po po…. lol soo he’s seeing this from the pilot and the enforcement view points! 👍🏻

[@CWLemoine]

What did I say that makes you think enforcement?

[@paulc1173]

@@CWLemoine you didn’t…. Gonkey did when he called you a “cop”. I forgot about the videos probably a couple years back now that you committed on either going through the academy or joining a department. So I figured your still doing it at least at a reserve level. I agree warning are useful in “the spirit of the law” and citations (enforcement) is generally when people talk themselves into it / force it when discretion can be applied. My experience.

[@WestCoastVisitor]

He also removes posts he doesn't like, kinda into censorship.

[@CWLemoine]

Yes, but what did I say that is from an enforcement view point here? And for @WestCoastVisitor, what have I censored?

[@WestCoastVisitor]

@@CWLemoine Two of my comments here have now been removed and I didn't do it.

[@pilroberts6185]

Like most government Legislative agencies, the FAA acts as its own: Legislative (writes the regulations) Police (polices its regulations) And Judge, Jury and Executioner Also… they are their own audit/oversight authority This is totalitarianism. Anyone accused by the FAA essentially has no chance to defend themselves. Consider the personal cost to attempt to adjudicate, remediate or appeal such decisions. It’s hard for big corporations and many times they’ll just as quiescence and pay the fine. This is what Reagan warned against but now things are much worse than in Reagan’s era. We know know the Fed is run by partisans which adds bias and potential animosity/malfeasance to the already baseline serendipity, caprice, incompetence, inefficiency, and haphazardness of government operations. Don’t get me wrong I trust the government/faa is correct and diligent on many occasions but there is no oversight to ensure such is consistently the case: The media is no check to the abuse of executive abuse, the media is as partisan as the executive. So Trent’s dilemma is a microcosm of our national crisis writ large. Can ‘we the people’ persevere?

[@mytmousemalibu]

I've been ramp checked by the FAA, or more accurately an FAA employee that fits the description of someone with napoleon syndrome & gestapo party member. Soon as I popped cowling latches open, this guy hauls ass down the taxiway and onto our ramp like a DEA drug bust. Its their job to make sure you have the appropriate AMM, etc, but this guy was a Sterling grade POS. He had to leave disappointed though, nothing to ding me for 😉

[@jb6027]

The FAA and the ATF are similar, in that their regulations are a moving goalpost and they both interpret their rules and regulations to suit their whims or motives of the moment. Both have a lot of good agent, but both have agents who perpetuate and validate all the negative connotations.

[@phillipforsythe4678]

My understanding is that Trent had permission to land at his friend‘s strip. Does this prosecution not undermine every pilot‘s choice to do a go around, when the pilot chooses to do so for safety?

[@danhanus2294]

What's the regulation? When they crop dust around me they have to be within 200ft of my house. You don't see me calling anyone.

[@WestCoastVisitor]

I, like many other pilots like to have fun and have occasionally carried out low passes. Saying that I knew perfectly well that if someone reported me to the FAA, with evidence, I would get in trouble. I would be annoyed but I would reluctantly except the punishment. I would have to, there are laws against it, rightly or wrongly. Palmer did something and someone reported him with video evidence. If you haven't seen the video then watch it before you start moaning about overreach by the FAA. A 110kt+ 50 degree banked low pass followed by a high rate climb is not for 'inspection'.

[@michaelblaker2334]

When you're going to do a landing in a remote area of course you're going to do a high Recon and then come back around and do a low Recon so you can identify all the potential hazards to Landing

[@mencken8]

There’s something missing about this case. I think I know everything online about this, but the offense doesn’t appear to warrant a suspension. 🤔

[@jerseyshoredroneservices225]

I've followed this as closely as possible from the beginning. Really seems that a disgruntled neighbor either new or found the right person in the government to go after Trent despite the law. As evidence Trent presented FAA publications that recommend an inspection pass before landing at a new strip and the administrative law judge just ignored it. The appeal to the NTSB went poorly as you guys described because like CW said the government protects it's own, sometimes despite the law and facts of the situation. Too often people in government forget that they are the government and acts as if they are individual people. As the government they need to leave behind their bias and personal beliefs. Rather than representing the law some people in those positions see themselves as vigilante's with a bottomless pit of government resources to use how they see fit. It's no surprise that the people who like to be controlling bullies seek these kinds of positions but we need far better ways to avoid hiring them. Far too many people in positions of power run around enforcing their perspective and outlook instead of the law. Government officials need to respect the Constitution and people's freedom especially when the government doesn't like it. Power tends to corrupt; absolute power corrupts absolutely An observation that a person's sense of morality lessens as his or her power increases. The statement was made by Lord Acton, a British historian of the late nineteenth and early twentieth centuries.

[@ILruffian]

Agree 100%. It's very difficult to see how the administrative law judge is objectively applying the law when the FAA's own regs recommend an inspection pass. As CW noted, it appears to be one government agency siding with another. It's being appealed to the real courts, which are hopefully more insulated. Also agree that it seems like the person who made the complaint had some serious juice.

[@geofftimm2291]

Based only on the comment of the Federal Administrative Law Judge as reported by Trent Palmer, only licensed Air Ports are acceptable as places to land and take off. Alaska is SCREWED if this stands, not to mention Air Ambulance. Geoff Whose last Helicopter ride was in a air ambulance unfortunately, I was driving a sensible, eco-responsible Honda Fit, the other guy an Chrysler. Nuf sed.

[@Edam-Channel]

Beyond a certain point, if Government admits it is wrong about a decision they are liable to big compensation claims. Big corporations can behave the same way for the same reasons.

[@synupps877]

I wouldn't want airplanes buzzing my home, even if I lived in a relatively rural area, to supposedly see if they can make an off-airport landing (to try to impress the people at the off-airport property). If he wanted to inspect the off-airport site, he needed to do it in a manner that didn't violate other rules. He violated rules. He wasn't in an area where there were no houses and no people.

[@donpatrick9353]

Has anyone seen the video? It’s one thing for an inspection pass at low speed vs an inspection pass at high speed…, which I would suggest is buzzing….lets see the video.

[@drethanplasticsurgery]

Despite a previous warning and counseling, the respondent (TP) did low pass near stable, shed, propane take, home, adults, children. Lesson is to not fly

[@josephhaas7413]

Worst thing is, Trent Palmer was only going off of the techniques and procedures published in the FAA’s Off Airport Operations Guide. In short, the FAA need to excuse themselves for publishing information that could’ve put someone like Trent in this position. The inspection passes were such techniques paired well with the regulations involved here.

[@JBSmoke1]

My primary instructor told me to memorize this sentence as pure fiction - "I'm from the FAA, and I'm here to help you." That said, it sounds like there may be more to this story than what's being told.

[@SoloRenegade]

doesn't matter. doing go-arounds cannot be banned by the FAA, and that's what the FAA is doing. That is why people are fighting it. it sets a dangerous and unsafe precedent.

[@olsonspeed]

"Making an example" is NOT equal treatment.

[@flying-oyvinator]

think your last take is the correct one mover.. someone mid-to-high up in this organisation didnt like it..

[@ODGreenZa]

Spot on GA is way too expensive now days. Its sad really how its being killed off

[@JetDriver77]

I've got enough GA time to know you can "inspect" an airfield just fine at even pattern altitude, nevermind 501'. Why give anyone the reason to complain?

[@josechung7713]

Is Mover a Libertarian?

[@terrydavis8451]

FAA is terrible and needs to be disbanded.

[@gordo1701e]

Umm totally random question, but was this not the guy who delberately crashed a perfectly working aircraft? And wasn't he already put in jail for lying to the authorities about it? I'm curious as to why this is all of a sudden a thing? Did I miss something here?

[@Haribo211]

Nope, different guy. The one you mention is Trevor Jacob.

[@gordo1701e]

@@Haribo211 ah, got it. Thanks for the clarification.

[@LoneWolf051]

The FAA always claims to support GA, but look at their actions and positions they always take, they are all about the red tape and regulations, and always take pride in grounding pilots and suspending licences. They know they make life as a private pilot miserable, and they just dont care

[@merlesmith6794]

Gonky, you just made the list. 😟😬😁

[@woof3598]

kinda wonder why this is why most of the Cowboys have quit posting their vidoes on line now

[@robinross6701]

Remember kids, the FAA isn’t happy till you’re not happy

[@markaoslo5653]

Well... there's _that..._ Cheers- 👍

[@Rainersherwood]

his suspension makes no logical sense, the law says "except for when necessary for landing and takeoff".... where is the argument? do they think hes lying about wanting to land and was just pointless buzzing peoples houses?

[@misarthim6538]

That's exactly what they think. They basically argue that the fact that he didn't land proves that the pass wasn't done for inspecting the landing spot, because he didn't land.

[@imaginaryfriend9655]

Buzzing an airstrip or some other means of landing, No violation unless there are people who may be injured through the fly past, but the other KZbin guy who filmed himself jumping from his apparently failing aircraft needs locking up and losing his licence for life, He put So many people in danger when he could of landed his plane… Justsayin

[@sfertonoc]

Always the local Karen snitch to get the Kavkaesque process out there.

[@dunbar555]

FAA is no better than FBI..

[@seipeele3437]

I enjoy Trents channel. It's a decision that hurts even more because his drone business requires him to have his aviation license. That was the entire reason he got the license to begin with.

[@SoloRenegade]

you don't have to have a private pilot license to fly drones.

[@seipeele3437]

Don't shoot the messenger, he explains it in his own videos

[@SoloRenegade]

@@seipeele3437 I'm a CFI in airplanes and helicopters and commercial UAV. I don't care what he says. either he is wrong, or you misunderstood him.

[@MeppyMan]

We used to buzz friends houses back in the 80s. One of my parents landed the helicopter in the backyard once. Definitely wouldn’t do that today, but this sounds like a nothing burger.

[@gram8821]

The same FAA that gave Boeing card Blanche. We all know the end result of that.

[@camcleat]

Crime against bureacracy. Worse than any felony.

[@1919champ]

FAA- we’re not happy until you’re not happy

[@hipser]

remember, *rump Is the swamp!

[@gregorymaupin6388]

Mover stop making sense.

[@unclejoe8279]

The two of you are like drunks walking out of a bar and have solved the worlds problems.

[@tangoESPECIAL]

Doing dangerous stunts over populated areas for clicks and likes on the internet… what could possibly go wrong…

[@SoloRenegade]

no one performed a dangerous stunt. Trent performed a standard, approved, and taught FAA maneuver, for SAFETY. This is a maneuver the FAA requires you to perform to get your license.

[@SPQRTempus]

Lightning and thunder scare my dogs. Who do I complain to? /s

[@OgamiItto70]

Institutional ego-tripping. Sort of like "we investigated ourselves and found no evidence of wrongdoing," eh?

[@jbrown3547]

Guy buzzes his buddies field under the guise of an "inspection" pass. But eh

[@196cupcake]

consequences educate

[@slowb4lls1]

Mover can be alittle moody sometimes 😂

[@aaronrunalls375]

I can sum it up with one sentence " done fucked around and found out"

[@kenmeyer100]

I have been following Trent Palmer for a long time and he always appeared to be a considerate and responsible pilot. FAA doesn't make sense.

[@tangoESPECIAL]

Mover: people don’t trust the government. Also: back the blue!!! The irony…

[@CWLemoine]

There is a massive difference between unelected bureaucrats and elected local officials.

[@tangoESPECIAL]

@@CWLemoine lol. Typical cop response. All government sucks - except us ! Now more pension bailout please.

[@CWLemoine]

I don’t get any money or pension. I work for a sheriff elected by the people of this parish. He does not make rules like unelected bureaucrats in three letter federal agencies.

[@SoloRenegade]

@@tangoESPECIAL you're an angry troll who needs to take anger management classes.

[@ArifChaudry67]

Pakistan Army

[@Mountain-Man-3000]

Please stop referring to agencies like the FAA as "the government". The "government" is not a monlithic all encompassing structure. It's not a hive mind. The FAA is an entity within the government, and it is comprised of individuals. Go after the individual who made this decision. It is always either a single person, or a small group of people within a government entitity that decide things like this. When you say "the government" in reference to any government agency or employee of the government, you do yourself and your countrymen a disservice. You're smarter than that.

[@Jack-Tactical]

They fall under the executive branch. Anything they do is under that authority, and funded by congress. Meaning it is approved of by the government. Unless funding is withdrawn, laws changed, or executive action taken it can be assumed that they are doing the governments work and “the government” can be blamed.

[@collinallison283]

This guy works for the FAA

[@misarthim6538]

No. He's describing an institutional attitude. The incentives within FAA as an organization point in certain direction and that's how the entire institution behaves. It's entirely appropriate to refer to it as 'the government' because that's what it is. When individuals within the organization actually stand up for the people they are supposed to serve instead of their own bureaucratic structure, we can discuss what you propose.

[@synupps877]

As I understand it, he was low over houses because he was supposedly inspecting the potential landing site which was a runway for RC aircraft which was in someone's yard. I think he made that excuse after he got caught buzzing a neighborhood. He seems to believe that he has the right to do things that he shouldn't do. And conservatives eat that "government bad" stuff up.

[@tangoESPECIAL]

Does mover hand out speeding tickets? If so - hypocrite…

[@CWLemoine]

How so?

[@collinallison283]

That’s the thing, if your speeding, your breaking the law…

[@tangoESPECIAL]

@@collinallison283 so is flying too low over populated areas under false pretense …

[@tangoESPECIAL]

@@CWLemoine flying too low over populated areas = illegal and dangerous; FAA enforces that ; driving too fast = dangerous ; Mover will write you a speeding ticket. The cognitive dissonance here is astounding.

[@CWLemoine]

He didn’t fly too low over a populated area though. And his argument is that he flew an inspection pass. I write speeding tickets, but only for infractions that I witness and those that are egregious (I’ve written one in the last two years and it was for 27 mph over). I mostly give warnings because I believe that is a valid enforcement tool and within my discretion to do so. The FAA did not personally witness this infraction, and a warning would’ve sufficed. Your argument is invalid.

[@shindenfighter3303]

Cmon, the guy regularly does some incredibly stupid stuff, barely qualified as acceptable. He isnt capable of being educated, he makes money from that stuff and unless punished severly, he will go right back to it, endangering many more lives

[@spacedmanspiff1543]

Don't be a douch...

[@Dwtdman]

My cats name is Luna😊