Sexual Economics Theory vs. Feminist Theory | MGTOW, INCEL, & Science

This video attempts to answer several questions: What is the difference between sexual economics theory (SET) and feminist theory? How do the MGTOW (Men Going Their Own Way) and INCEL (involuntarily celibate or involuntary celibate) philosophies connect with sexual economics theory? Which theory has more empirical support? The factors and dynamics of sexuality have been explained by many different models including a biological and a political model. The political model, known as social construction, is often referenced by the feminist theory of sexuality. A third way to conceptualize sexuality would be through an economics model, which is sometimes referred to as social exchange theory or sexual economics theory. A related construct is called sexual market value, which is simply a value determined when operating under sexual economics theory.
Baumeister, R. F., Reynolds, T., Winegard, B., & Vohs, K. D. (2017). Competing for love: Applying sexual economics theory to mating contests. Journal of Economic Psychology, 63, 230-241.
Baumeister, R., & Vohs, K. (2012). Sexual Economics, Culture, Men, and Modern Sexual Trends. Society, 49(6), 520.
Baumeister, R. F., & Vohs, K. D. (2004). Sexual Economics: Sex as Female Resource for Social Exchange in Heterosexual Interactions. Personality & Social Psychology Review (Lawrence Erlbaum Associates), 8(4), 339-363.
Rudman, L. A., & Fetterolf, J. C. (2014). Gender and sexual economics: Do women view sex as a female commodity? Psychological Science, 25(7), 1438-1447.
Fetterolf, J. C., & Rudman, L. A. (2017). Exposure to sexual economics theory promotes a hostile view of heterosexual relationships. Psychology of Women Quarterly, 41(1), 77-88.
Rudman, L. A. (2017). Myths of Sexual Economics Theory: Implications for Gender Equality. Psychology of Women Quarterly, 41(3), 299-313.

[@antonydrossos5719]

Rational analysis on such a touchy topic is always welcome.

[@derstoffausdemderjoghurtis]

Hmm the internet feminists always show high emotional affect^^

[@francesbernard2445]

For sure. Trying to apply rational analysis to understand irrational behavior better without a discussion about personality disorders at all too instead of only presenting 2 theories in the social sciences to an audience after being asked to is like trying to is sort of like trying to put the cart before the horse. What horse in their right mind would want to stick around there with nothing to do yet while seeing the bit which will be in his mouth while the grass is already looking way greener than behind that cart? At least if it is only 2 field theories ahead to look at the horse is always going to be far more content to just stand there waiting to get a treat instead of surprise - the bit in that horse's mouth again.

[@martianpudding9522]

I'm a woman and when I imagine that study where participants are asked if they want to have sex I'm not thinking about whether or not I would like to have sex at all, I'm just thinking about who is this serial killer amd how do I get away.

[@edvh88]

Martian Pudding that’s why they all said No. That was my first thought too- personal safety. Something men don’t have to worry about when they date (cis het men that is)

[@kathryngeeslin9509]

Exactly. Accepting the wrong offer can be suicide.

[@tony6795]

@@fealdorf Bruh, are you saying the scenario of a woman murdering a man is as probable as a man murdering a woman? Real life?

[@c.christopher6115]

So women can''t have guns? Or can lead you to people with guns? Agreeing to go somewhere to have sex with a stranger is dangerous for both sexes.

[@CanwegetSubscriberswithn-cu2it]

Well yes, because in the case of a pregnancy, women have a lot more to lose than men (if it's a stranger). It's the basis for the entirety of the SET. The cost/benefit analysis for sex is very different for man and women. This different feeling towards a random encounter is an expression of that fact.

[@Godless_Doc]

To be fair, women may not have accepted the offers for lots of reasons including concerns for personal safety, which men generally don’t have to think about when they’re approached by a strange woman. It may have nothing to do with sex drive and more to do with a survival instinct.

[@Design____ByS]

The ones who conducted the study and drew conclusions were probably men ahah

[@mjinba07]

Yes. A well adjusted woman will think this kind of approach breaks with common sense and appropriate social behavior. If the guy is willing to do that, what other norms is he likely to break? He's showing lack of judgment. So, STDs? Criminal background? Mental illness? Addiction problems? At the very least, social ineptitude and emotional immaturity.

[@samuelntim-addae2843]

@@Design____ByS While I agree that the model is over simplistic it would be dishonest to act as though certain sexual characteristics do not increase the likelihood of starting relationships. I feel that this model is a step in the right direction when trying to create a multivariable analysis of sexual decision making. I believe that the model applies to both genders as well.

[@billwilson6248]

The point is that they declined the offer. Whether they feared for their safety, reputation or were simply unattracted, is irrelevant to the study. If the sex drive is strong enough, it overwhelms other concerns.

[@AkaiKnight]

How would that idea be able to coexist in the same world where one-night stands exist?

[@TheKaappari]

I love that dr. Grande is here to discuss ideas and not to score points.

[@BarryBranton]

The moment doc goes off the plantation is the moment he is fired from his comfy job.

[@marylamb7707]

@@BarryBranton that's kind of mean. He doesn't have to do this on youtube. Hes kind.

[@aeris2001]

@@BarryBranton wat

[@SwimminWitDaFishies]

What ARE you talking about?? Dr Grande scores ALL kinds of points -- in fact, he scored 100K more viewers in a matter of only 90 days, didn't he? How do you explain that??

[@anthonypalermo8816]

He does the opposite, simps are like that.

[@RapidBlindfolds]

Oscar Wilde said it best: "Everything in the world is about sex. Except sex. Sex is about power."

[@danielblank9917]

Unless you're someone who engages in mutaully beneficial and consentual sex

[@evagabrysova8871]

@@danielblank9917 Agreed, I don't consider Oscar Wilde a role model in general :D

[@terrorists-are-among-us]

Only to incels.

[@barbarabagatin8962]

Michel Foucault.

[@theboyisnotright6312]

​@@evagabrysova8871very smart man tho. I certainly can't disprove that quote 😂😂

[@edgabrielsen4725]

I am definitely getting hooked on your videos. The content is so interesting, varied, and supported by all the studies and articles you read. Your ability to articulate nuanced concepts with critical reflection is something to which I aspire.

[@edgabrielsen4725]

@Bob Smith He sites a number of articles from scientific journals. These are listed in the video description.

[@thequestion4818]

@@edgabrielsen4725 wow. He made a works cited page. He can pass a redemial English class.

[@edgabrielsen4725]

@@thequestion4818 Why the sarcasm? Are you trolling? It's remedial. There's no such word as redemial.

[@NeThZOR]

@@thequestion4818 redemial LUL

[@maidenmarian1]

@Bob Smith He sites a number of articles and studies based on scientific evidence. See Ed Gabrielsen's reply to you.

[@jayrossatx]

I really appreciate your dispassionate and balanced approach to investigating and discussing opposing views. It stands to reason if we are truly interested in truth, emotional neutrality is paramount, as well, we are open and willing to abandon even long-standing views and conclusions in favor of better evidence . Keep it up!

[@k.ambriz9789]

This is a fascinating topic. Thank you for offering a balanced perspective. I think that the precipitants of sexual behavior are probably a mix of biological and social construction theories. It's hard to separate our behavior from our culture or biology so maybe that's why it's so hard to study.

[@Occult_Gibbet]

I would say that with the existence of these "movements" on the rise in conjunction with the increase of peoples ability to be socially withdrawn, that biological reasons would definitely outweigh social upbringing & environment. In simpler terms, men are just horny and actually kind of desperate but these "philosophies" aren't making it any easier for them or their peers, and even though they may offer some support network they're actually just kind of embarrassing.

[@mon_ange333mony4]

@@Occult_Gibbet Have you thought that men are horny because of their frequent porn use and other cultural incentives that stimulates their drive. They re a big sociological, cultural burden on those men to be like ' that' meaning horny for the sake of it and there aren t too many fingers pointed at them to make them wonder 'why'. Why is being horny more important thab being caring for example? It s still a culture that descredits women for being horny as that means less chances to preserve a reputation of being a good mother and wife but there isn t the same for men. Painly put a woman who is openly sexual is called crazy or unstable whereas a man is not.

[@theswissmiss69]

@@Occult_Gibbet why would the biological reasons outweigh the social ones? And I‘m sorry but I hate the whole stigma of „Men only want sex.“ and „Men are always horny.“.

[@lundsweden]

In my experience, when you are down, economically and or depressed, people will generally look down on you and not want to be your friend/lover/whatever. But when you are doing much better in life, suddenly you matter, you're human after all and more express interest in you. So I don't think this is just a male/female thing or just a sexual thing. The Bible said the poor have no friends, and my life experience would support that. I WAS poor, now I'm not, so it is interesting to see the difference in how people treat you.

[@carlthoresen3232]

“No body knows you, when you’re down and out, In your pocket - not one penny, And as for friends, you don’t have any…”

[@disaffectedmale]

I'm loaded and have no friends, lovers or intimacy in my life at all.

[@lundsweden]

@@disaffectedmale Thats interesting. Is that by choice or not?

[@isaacinternet]

I notice that too. I wonder though how our own perception of our circumstances impacts how people communicate and react to us. Perhaps, at least part of this, is that WE feel better about ourselves and that attracts people to us more.

[@lundsweden]

@@isaacinternet I think it is part of that, but particularly as society becomes more fragmented, I find a lot more barriers between people. Here in Australia in the 70s, everyone would talk to everyone. Now, some people in my own family even refuse to even talk to me or others they think are below them at (rare) family gatherings. I won't accept that behaviour, so I'll never go back.

[@po.po.poquito]

Dr.Grande have you covered information on power dynamics in relationships? "The avoidant partner has more power than the partner who approaches." Sparked my interest.

[@manuelmanzanero5057]

Surely Grande's answer will be more accurate and elegant, but let's try. The fact here, when we have one person who approaches and another one who avoids, or waits and passively validates the first one's move, not only creates a power asymmetry in the relationship, but this last also becomes an emotional asymmetry over time. The side that invests more effort in seeking or building the relationship also loses more with the breakup than the one that has invested little or nothing, because the first one gets wasted and ruined a work built with its time, its effort, and without help. Falling in love is a trashy, perishable biochemical trap. But love is a long-run construction, which requires time and effort. When the investment in time and effort is not symmetrical, the power balance in the couple is neither. But the same goes for love. Because people only really love what is difficult to achieve, whose conservation demands effort and forces them to get involved. That is, what we fear to lose. For the side that works harder, its partner ends up being irreplaceable, because it is an investment made for her and the bond that links them. For the side that makes less effort, its partner is always circumstantial, disposable and replaceable, because it can validate the investment of any other person as it does with its current partner. With the breakup, that side may not win anything, but also loses nothing. Because that person has not invested anything, she (he) has not exposed herself in anything, her partner has done everything in her place. And a relationship that is not symmetric from the beginning (because one side is expected to actively approach the other passive or avoidant side) will never be so. On the contrary, this asymmetry will grow worse and worse and will invade more spaces of the shared lives' domain. And today, the whole sexual dynamics is crossed by this phenomenon. Half of the population strives and competes to approach another half that only waits passively and chooses. Or, what is the same: one half has to do all the work while the other has all the power.

[@delneus]

@@manuelmanzanero5057 you've put very beautifully into words what is a very underappreciated and large problem with mordern dating, thank you

[@ketchupking9972]

@@manuelmanzanero5057The part "Because people only really love what is difficult to achieve" - really hits home - why before feminism, men would only ever marry virginal women - today weak men marry used goods, then it almost always ends in divorce & the man losing out on his kids, often paying alimony. Never trust a slut, you can't turn a hoe into a housewife find a cute moral girl to put a ring on or don't bother.

[@manuelmanzanero5057]

@@ketchupking9972 My choice as a man is "don't bother." Because it is not about the moral behavior of individuals, regardless of their gender. It's not about whether a woman is "moral" or a slut. It's a matter of sexual dynamics, or a power, empathy & love imbalance directly related to it. The current sexual dynamics favors women in a massive scale (and here I cease to be politically correct: when in my first comment I talked about the half that does all the effort vs. the half that has all the power, it is by no means a secret that I was referring, statistically, to men and women, which does not mean that there are individual cases of active women and passive or avoidant men).

[@badjouras]

@@ketchupking9972 did you really refer to non-virgin women as "used goods" and "sluts"? That worldview is messed up.

[@Applepear893]

I really think that many women are just as interested in sex as men, but we are more cautious and less likely to take risks when it comes to sex

[@BalboaBaggins]

more cautious? lol

[@Applepear893]

Balboa Baggins because of pregnancy

[@rupeshkhode3244]

@@Applepear893 lmao

[@speedgnom]

Your statement is a joke. Explain the massive increase in single moms then. Cautious my ass.

[@superasper]

@@speedgnom many women think that they can get a man to “love” them and to stay with them through sex. Then they decide to throw in a pregnancy for good measure. But he has no intention to stay. He has been either actively hiding it or just not caring. End result: single moms

[@AnnNunnally]

I was wondering which of these studies was the one where the researchers asked college age women and men for sex. Did they ever interview the subjects about why they did or did not want to have sex with a stranger? There can be a variety of reasons why someone would refuse: Having an existing relationship Fear of being assaulted Fear of STD Fear of pregnancy ( women only, obviously) Religious (prohibition on premarital sex) Lack of attraction to person requesting sex I think it would be a useful aspect to this study to find out exactly why people made their decisions.

[@DIVAD291]

Why wouldn't men be scared of potentially ruining their lives by getting a girl pregnant?

[@frogandtoady]

@@DIVAD291 in general society, men usually aren't held as accountable for getting someone pregnant. also, pregnancy is 7+ months of being disabled. childbirth is *at least* 24h of agony. even after that, pregnancy changes someone's body forever-- people can develop diabetes, joint problems, etc. if a woman is seen as "sleeping around too much" or isn't married etc, people tend to be much harsher on her than the man who got her pregnant. at the very least, the guy doesn't have any physical repercussions. there's more i could say about this but does this answer your question?

[@The_Gallowglass]

@@frogandtoady Ow.

[@kekepagele8135]

Exactly. And why 75% of those men said yes even when those same circumstances could have been at play.

[@Alex-lt5ho]

moss bot this is my opinion, from my point of view not knowing much about this sexual economics subject he is talking about, applying to the real world with other types of economics I can understand why men are held less accountable. My point of view in this is that the supplier is often seen as more of a bad guy than the buyer, you see, a person feels pity (normally) when they see a heroine addict on the street, but they would (normally) have disgust towards the drug dealer. In my example, the women are the drug dealer, and the men are the buyer.

[@RadicalAngel]

What a pleasant and optimistic spin on this subject matter! Fantastic work, Dr. Grande, thank you so much for breaking these concepts down and inviting respectful communication. Right on!

[@k-tube6802]

Dear Dr. Grande: I am positively amazed by your way of addressing controversial subjects with, always, an attempt for accuracy, cautiousness in your word choice, and calm-mindedness. To me, your channel is starting to be a bit more than only about mental health topics (which already is a lot): thanks, sincerely!

[@NatAnnSch]

Had a very abusive father and then stepfather. My mother was divorced twice by the time I was thirteen. Decided marriage wasn't for me. Went to college, had a good career and retired in my early 50s. Felt great not to have to be dependent on a man to survive. No regrets. If more men were like the fine Doctor here, there wouldn't be so many issues between the genders.

[@AMM3.]

I had a male sex worker friend (strait) , I also worked the sex industry. We had completely different customers. His were usually women in their 50s or 60s, divorced or widowed, just lonely. I didn't really get a "type" like that. But it was still generally lonely guys. We both found it was more about spending time together. sex was still the objective but they would usually pay for extra time to talk or snuggle

[@DameOfDiamonds]

Stop using the word widowed, use unmarried

[@bigboy7927]

@@DameOfDiamonds What is wrong with the word widowed? How can you be offended by the the word widowed? please explain.

[@johnpaul5474]

Years ago, I was seeing a psychologist who suggested I do a "cost-benefit analysis" on some of the friendships I was struggling through at the time. He was right, very right; perhaps "more right" than he knew or could have known. But I was uncomfortable then, as I am now, with the application of financial terms and concepts to human emotions and relationships. Edit: "SET" is a new one on me, so I can't contribute much to this discussion right now. Sounds interesting, though, and no doubt there's something to it; sounds ripe for parody, too.

[@AlvaroALorite]

I am un confortable with that terminology too. I think it's more "human" to ask yourself "is this relationship fulfilling? Is it balanced?" you are essentially doing a very similar analysis, but in the end you are getting rid of the concept that "a relationship must give me profit otherwise its not interesting", that is a dangerous mentality (sociopaths only engage socially if they see a profit)

[@Savvynomad225]

I don't think money is meant as the cost/benefit basis on relationships....I can see it being a good practice basing it on time/care/values rather than money. For example, if a friendship/relationship is requiring more time or care than you receive back, or if values are required to be compromised for the relationship to work, then these would be high cost/low value dynamics. The flip side would be the opposite and you could presume that there are areas of your own improvement. Etc.

[@Christopher-md7tf]

I totally get what you mean. I'm also not comfortable with applying this cold terminology to human beings. It's just that sometimes we get attached to certain people and situations just because they're familiar or because we think we have to be loyal to our friends and family or sth like that. But there comes a point when having certain relationships just doesn't make sense anymore, because although you're investing your valuable time and energy into them, they don't actually add anything to your life, or worse, they are actively holding you back from evolving. And the first step in the process of letting unrecesourceful old things go is to become aware of how much they bog you down, which was probably the point of this exercise. Or, if a relationship is positive for you, putting it under a microscope will clearly show you that, and as a result, you will appreciate it more. It is never a bad idea to gain more awareness and clarity.

[@shamtradtam3769]

That's just a mental barrier. Humans on a large scale can be dehumanized & explained clearly using methods we usually apply to objects or even abstract quantities. For example, researchers from my university in India showed that the risk of stampedes can be reduced if we think of crowds at holy sites like Hajj or Kumbh Mela as fluid molecules & model the roads & places at the holy sites using fluid mechanics terms.

[@terrorists-are-among-us]

Nice. All his female clients will ditch their deadbeat boyfriend 😂

[@cindyrhodes]

This is definitely a "Dr. Grande" day, as I binge on your videos. I am learning about so much that I never really considered! This one kind of makes me glad that I'm out of the dating scene. LOL

[@cindyrhodes]

It's really interesting to see how the sexual "value" theories affects the community/cultural morality!

[@edvh88]

Mermaid Mansion and how putting such a high expectation and double standard on women’s sexuality I think makes it really hard for us to identify as sexual beings with rights and desires.

[@ultradevon04]

Emily Van Heukelom women have rights and desires but greater consequences and responsibility due to frivolous behavior. Nobody is denying women of anything. There are just social consequences that are different for women

[@mateorome]

I thought i was a open minded man not shocked but anything but all this "sexual market value talk" is kinda disgusting and horrible.

[@pilosopher974]

@@mateorome Embrace that these are just models and not necessarily inherent truths, just like most branches of science are.

[@eidiazcas]

why is the word value in quotation marks?

[@cindyrhodes]

Thank you VERY much for that priceless closing advice about arguing/debating/discussing without allowing negative emotions to control the tone of the experience!

[@QuinGuitardotcom]

I’d love to hear your thoughts on the high male suicide rate and the potential causes of it, and how gender differences relate to suicidal thoughts and actions overall.

[@Anson120]

Most of them suffer from depression. The loss of interest that comes along with depression is the worst state one can be in.

[@QuinGuitardotcom]

Torie Beck Hi, thanks for the response. I’d be thrilled to read your responses to some of my questions. I’ve seen plenty of articles about these topics, but still have plenty of questions that remain unanswered. -If there are many more women attempting suicide than men, why aren’t they dying much more than men from suicide? Are women just using methods that don’t work? Why? If they used methods that worked, are you saying that there would be more women than men dying by suicide? -OR, Do you mean that a woman just needs more attempts to reach her goal? Meaning 1 woman attempts multiple times before dying by suicide... There is a HUGE difference between saying that more women than men are attempting suicide, and women who attempt suicide use more attempts to succeed. In other words, the studies demonstrating that more women are attempting suicide need to make sure they only count a woman who attempts suicide 3 times as ONE WOMAN, not THREE women.

[@chronic_payne5669]

@@QuinGuitardotcom I've lost my daughter's father, my uncle, my close friends husband and a coworkers husband all to suicide in the past 5 years. I've also lost a female family member to suicide. My best friend (female) has attempted several times and survived. Among others. As far as everyone knows 3 out of the 4 men succeed in ending their lives on their first and only try. 3 out of 4 used fire arms. My personal perspective, women are more likely to admit we're not okay and get help. I've done it myself. My daughter has PTSD from her dads suicide (she was 11) along with suicidal ideation. She's been in for therapy for several years.

[@QuinGuitardotcom]

Angie Stone Well, that is very sad and I’m sorry for your losses. I think you are right that men tend to repress things and don’t get help like women do. Men don’t want to express their emotions and make themselves vulnerable. It isn’t as socially accepted for men to be vulnerable or show weakness. As you seem to understand, suicides of men end up harming women. This has unfortunately led to the struggles of your daughter. This is why I think feminists should definitely care about helping men, instead of shifting the focus to this vague idea that “women have it worse/attempt more often” at every chance they get. Men and women are in each others lives and the issues that they face are each others issues. Men’s issues are women’s issues, because we are all connected in some way.

[@chronic_payne5669]

@@MrCPPG I did no such thing, neither did any other wife, mother, sister, daughter or friend in any of these men lives.

[@pavo1394]

Feminist theory starts with a conclusion and looks for evidence to bolster it.

[@pavo1394]

@Stay Away Not his conclusion. Mine.

[@annzielinski1610]

The problem with surveys is that people tell you what they think they should say, not necessarily the truth.

[@AntonSlavik]

Thing about the "falling in love" thing is that there are millions of people out there (women in your and my cases) that you're astronomically unlikely to fall in love with because they exist in exclusive social realms. There are assumptions and preconceptions you both have about each other that make it so you wouldn't even be able to have a conversation or view each other as attractive, long enough that you'd fall in love. The Incels and MGTOW rightly complain about this marketplace because they're effectively barred from falling in love due to finances or physical assets/appearance

[@hayvebromier2158]

@@M_SC It's easy to just say stuff. It's harder present actual arguments that can persuade people who don't already agree with you.Take this (just as one example): www.washingtonpost.com/business/2019/03/29/share-americans-not-having-sex-has-reached-record-high/ Yeah, the study may not be perfect, it may be subject to the biases outlined in this video, etc. But at least it's _something._ Can you provide _anything_ (other than words out of your own mouth) that has come out in the past 30 years that shows even mildly opposing results? And no, given that you completely disregard the lived experience of these guys, examples from your own life/experience don't count either. At the end of the day, no one wants to admit they're benefitting from an unfair system. Why? I think it's because people (consciously or subconsciously) assume that nothing lasts forever and that when the pendulum swings the other way, it could very well be them that gets the short of the deal. But remember, denial isn't going to stop that pendulum from swinging. It's physics. Simple as that.

[@baileymoran8585]

For a lot of them, it’s purely attitude. Most people, regardless of gender or sexuality, see certain personality traits as a turn off. Examples would be ‘clingy,’ ‘entitled,’ ‘lazy,’ ‘manipulative,’ etc. Loudly associating yourself with a group known for hygiene issues, and blowing up at women for already having a partner/simply not wanting to date the man asking, obsessive behavior and desperation, ‘lay down and rot’ and/or ‘no showering’ contests, etc. is not going to make you an appealing option. As a woman I can confirm that I have yet to see or encounter an incel in the real world, who was not undesirable based off of their personal character.

[@blowitoutyourcunt7675]

Whether it be now or 5000 yrs ago, this would still be true though.... they whine as if this is a new problem men are dealing with! The same could be argued with women. They've been told who they would marry for thousands of yrs by their fathers and bettors with no choice.

[@youtubecommenter3956]

@@hayvebromier2158 What the "pendulum swinging" is a euphemism. Many systems change and don't necessarily empower those disempowered by that system. That you would insist such a dynamic is "physics" shows how blinded you are by your exaggerated sense of intelligence.

[@katkat5020]

I don't think any study can be done on this without asking both side about their sense of safety and potential abuse in past experiences. Men are also less careful about stds, they know way less about them, see their genital related doctors only when they are sick and they transmit more diseases than they actually suffer from. The amount of health and emotional related risks of going to be with a stranger is absolutely not even. Not even mentioning the amount of time and effort both genders put in their hygiene and appearences.

[@CazzoneMagrolino]

I've discovered your channel through this video and proceded to watch other ones, you probably make the best psychology videos on KZbin . You earned a new subscriber.

[@hakesho]

interesting how almost none of the counterpoints had anything to do with the validity of the theory, they basically just call it sexist

[@QED_]

Sexual Economics Theory: describes things the way they actually are. Feminist theory: describes things another way they might be if they weren't the way they actually are.

[@_erayerdin]

SET: Describing actual. The main premises are formulated as "A is B". Tells the apple falls. FT: Describing ideal. The main premises are formulated as "A should be B". Tells the apple should fall in a certain manner.

[@lovesdogs8616]

I absolutely deplore it when people get hateful when discussing the differences in men and women. I will always celebrate our wonderful differences and the fact that we can compliment each other. Nature speaks louder than any human. Good for you for taking this risk to discuss. Yeah, we got your back, lol.

[@ChrisDragotta]

Doogy Dog The science points towards mutual exploitation.

[@CynthiaSchoenbauer]

@wqzlfhegdvarxpisbumoctyj Yes, it is all about objectification, and no one seeing the individualistic beauty in absolutely everyone as human.

[@CynthiaSchoenbauer]

@@ChrisDragotta Is that the new way to say "Dog Eat Dog"? I am of the older generation.

[@rightnow5839]

👍🏻 Dr. Grande. I agree there is always bias on every side of any subject debates, because people can’t help but see the the filter of their own experience. 💗

[@sponish0]

Justin Tuet what’s that got to do with Mgtow or women though? Wars and prison are women’s fault ?

[@robertleitz5245]

@@sponish0 i wont say war is women's fault. However prison can and should be contributed not entirely on women, but pretty heavy. Divorce and living without a man or male role model in the home is rewarded. Since something like 90% of men and women in prison never had a father or father figure in the home growing up, is a huge factor. Until divorce is no longer rewarded or women, start having multiple kids from different men then thing wont change. Men are to blame as well. In saying that men have two factors in life that play a role in everything we are 1. Respect, 2. Sex. So saying that men are started to marry less today, because women are becoming easier to have sex with. Which creates major problems!!! The 2 major factors a woman brings to a relationship is respect and sex. So when a man will take any woman home, but that doesn't mean he will bring her home to meet momma. So if she is giving it away, then a logical thought process says don't buy it, if they are giving it away free. I hope that makes sense!!!

[@sponish0]

Robert Leitz so for arguments sake if all women were to disappear tomorrow from the earth, you saying men’s prison populations would all start decreasing? Completely bullshit dude various studies have shown the less women there are the higher crime is, areas where men outnumber women crimes tend to soar as it leaves a lot of men frustrated and turning to crime

[@justinthehead1993]

@@sponish0 actually women do put men in jail all the time over false allegations and violence by proxy. stop the shaming attempts and blame shifting and take some responsibility for the actions of your own gender. I'm no victim, I'm just stating the statistics and want a dialogue to open up and solve some of the issues. so many men are clueless to this reality until something happens and wakes them up or destroys there world.

[@justinthehead1993]

@@sponish0 show me a study that says this. its lack of fathers that increase male crime rate

[@privatesniffles1607]

quality vid doc, good to see you are not afraid to approach this topic despite the initial backlash, i liked the message at the end

[@grasshoppingsnappoppin302]

When the "Going" gets tough, the tough get going.

[@gregorychandler8096]

One thing left out in the matter between men and women is age. ---- A man over the age of 40 tends to have a different standing than a woman in the same age group. ---- For example, in high school, a male wanted to be with a certain female, but the female shunned him. Several decades later, both the same male and the female are single, but the male seeks out younger females instead of the female that he used to desire. ---- There are also matters such as race and ethnicity. --- A man of a certain racial or ethnic group tends to have a different standing than a woman of the same racial or ethnic group. --- For example, there are studies that Asian women in the USA tend to attract many non-Asian men. The same attraction does not exist for Asian men with non-Asian women. For USA blacks, the situation is reversed between black men and black women with the black men being favored by non-black women. There are so many matters at play that it is difficult to arrive at acceptable conclusions on the topics discussed.

[@terrorists-are-among-us]

Yuck. Desperate old guys chasing children. Disgusting 🤮

[@NK-qw5vt]

If your first example had married, they'd be divorced by now. Men of any age are attracted to 20yo, while women are roughly to their own age to 2-4yrs older (not much older typically though). So you'll end up with a) unhappy marriage, cheating, wife being a abused for getting older b) if they can, they'll just get a new 20yo every 10y or so, c) angry frustrated single or incel

[@nickidaisyreddwoodd5837]

Teal Swan made an excellent video regarding sexuality of women and that we need to feel completely safe and protected in order to be really relaxed and to get into the mood. Most women are terrified I see this everywhere and I see it in myself. We see what is happening world wide with male oppression and violence. I'm an animal rights activist and I get the cruelty reports sent to me daily so I became extremely paranoid and cautious in regards to trusting people in general and men in particular. We need to be made to feel safe I want all men to know that. Maybe that clears up some misunderstandings that many psychopaths have about women. I love your videos Dr. Grande. Science rocks. No to religion and ridiculous conspiracy groups.

[@twatmang1]

Judy Lee Our society is safer for women, and men, than at any time in our history. Food is abundant in large parts of the world. Rape is criminalised, and women are allowed the freedom to study, work, travel and enjoy the same rights men do. I don’t understand your position, you’re one of the most privileged, cosseted people on the planet in all history.

[@delneus]

@@twatmang1 your are correct, it's clear she won't engage with anyone in good faith

[@willnill7946]

So now women don’t like danger

[@youtubecommenter3956]

@@willnill7946 Must feel "safe" with betas, but hooking up with Chad the violent felon is exciting.

[@blazefairchild465]

Well, Dr.Grande this was enjoyably deep. I needed a second cup of coffee to boot my brain up a notch to understand it. Thank you for your closing words , people that feel it's ok to be rude on these comment sections would be ashamed of they used their own names.

[@lisasmith516]

I'm sorry, what rude comments? I didn't see them. Debate yes, rude? No. But then perhaps my "filter" is on too high a setting. Often, those who bemoan "this or that" do exactly the same thing in other venues or contexts, but never see themselves as clearly as they think they do others.

[@bamadilloable]

I didn't even know there was theories like this, Thanks a lot for explaining some of it, would really like to do some more research to get to know much more about this topic

[@epicmercury333]

This was brilliant and thought provoking examination of a complex topic. I concur, more research needs to be done. 👍

[@clemdane]

There are also people who want love and affection and a life companion

[@ruckerrc6982]

agreed....and the men in those relations 9/10 times want sex on a regular basis.

[@stevenvandiver4193]

That doesn't exist

[@hasanthegoatlover6299]

Cope

[@dariabusek3566]

>>There are also people who want love and affection and a life companion

[@amelianannette972]

I actually find that I disagree with your portrayal of feminist theory. Most feminist theory does not state that individual men actively seek to subjugate women, rather that there is a system and common mindset that does so.

[@annlvselvis972]

I have never heard of SET before so thank you for educating me. I prefer the delusion of romance, after all bartering is vulgar.

[@terrorists-are-among-us]

Yes, males are quite vulgar. They chase children because women are scaaaaaary 😂 "she's not hot anymore". Says a broke guy with moobs 🤡

[@TheGodlessGuitarist]

Based on what I heard in this video only, SET sounds to me about as mature in relation to understanding human behaviour as Ptolemy's cosmology is to understanding the cosmos. The transactional nature of this theory seems to be at best a grotesque oversimplification of dynamics of human interactions, and the studies that supposedly lend support to it seem appallingly weak. E.g. In this study of male vs female offer of sex the same evening, how do you control for attractiveness, a highy subjective quality that is very dependent on the eye and mood of the beholder, not to mention the circumstances and manner in which the question is posed, and has different dimensions including appearance, personality, smell, sound? Unless you do a large study with lots of different participants on both sides of the offer, there doesn't seem to be much chance ofcontrolling or averaging out such variables. Any one can come with a 'theory', the question is whether the theory is any good at predicting reality under a reasonable exposure to a variety of input conditions.

[@norafeher8260]

Hm what about taking into account the numerous reasons women reject sex more than men: 1. Safety, mentioned in the other comments 2. Women and men are taught in sex ed and through the media that sex is primarily about male pleasure, and should cater to that and ignore what might be pleasurable to women, resulting in 3. Lots of women think they don't like sex because they never had good sex, and 4. Lots of men put in 0 effort to please their female partners in bed, so... The motivation for women to want to have casual sex is much lower. Not to mention slut-shaming. SET is in herently sexist, as it says, as you so eloquently stated, that sex is a market item, valuable to men (to get it from women), but not the other way around. As a psychologist, do you really believe it would ever be healthy for two people to have sex when only one of those two people is into it? Do you really, in the depth of your heart believe this could happen without it being incredibly unhealthy?

[@nathanwilliams5290]

So performance anxiety that men experience isn’t a thing.

[@dithaingampanmei]

Nope. SET isn't inherently sexist. It deals with a certain set of conditions, which produce a set of results. You can literally reverse the conditions and women would become the buyers and the men would be the sellers. Once again. I'll spell it out for you: a theory Can't be sexist. People are sexist. What a theory can be, is wrong. But then you'd have to the leg work if you wanna prove SET wrong, right? I personally am not satisfied with SET as the Doctor presented in the video. It needs more variables and more work. But I'm not standing here calling social constructivism a sexist ideology, am I?

[@stanzaschulz4339]

he isn't a psychologist and probably wont answer you ever unless u compliment him in some way. That being said I really do enjoy his videos no matter how much I disagree with him.

[@theboyisnotright6312]

Gosh, bet your a lot of fun at parties😂😂😂😂. Lighten up 😜

[@Reqcore]

Now this is how you are objective! I tripped into this video by accident and now I'm a subscriber, amazing work!

[@lauraj4435]

It makes me really uncomfortable to hear about sex being 'traded' in this way. Trust me, if someone i was with viewed it in this way (i.e. trading something to have sex with me), i would be running for the hills. I understand the points raised however what these people who believe this don't understand is that there is a complex range of factors when deciding whether to sleep with someone. Would they stand by and support you if you accidentally got pregnant? Are they respectful of you? Is there mutual attraction? I think women have a lot more to lose when deciding to have sex with someone, which is why they don't as much.

[@General12th]

"Sex as transaction" is an uncomfortably cold way to think about the world.

[@SonoTom]

economic principles apply to choices between options, and exchanges of value generally, regardless of whether there is any rational calculation being made. the reasons you mention for women's reticence are indeed among those that require 'work' from men, to meet requirements - i.e. they are 'paying' or 'investing' for access. this is a consequence of the female evolutionary role as wielder of sexual selection.

[@darcysmith2820]

Im a woman but i personally lean more towards SET, I don’t think it’s inherently sexist in nature but people def have coopted it to be used for sexist purposes

[@wl415]

Agreed. Ironically, it’s very accurate in describing patriarchy within our very own system and feminist theory could actually benefit from discussing SET more thoroughly. My issue with these studies is they don’t really talk about the root of the problem. They both seem to critique the main issues with a society the focuses solely on profit and how that can manipulate human societal behaviours and our society as a whole. Just my take on this.

[@prschuster]

The actual discussion starts at 4:15. When feminists bring in their social constructivist patriarchy theories, science flies out the window. Sexual Economics Theory does have some basis in biology, where males perform courtship rituals and females do the selecting, but love is more than just biology.

[@MrEssedis]

Of course love is more than biology, it's a fantasy.

[@thisisntallowed9560]

@@MrEssedis ha

[@OlivaSullen]

That's funny because romantic love is a social construct designed by the patriarchy to subjugate women just like marriage was. That's why it's a fantasy, because fantasy is deception, and deception is exploitation.

[@prschuster]

@@OlivaSullen You lost me at "social construct designed by the patriarchy to subjugate women". I can't even take that word salad seriously. How about marriage is a social construct designed by society to hold men accountable for financially supporting their family, while women bear the burden of pregnancy & child birth? So, am I subjugating women by falling in love with them?

[@randyandretti]

I always noticed how love between two people was a factor missing. Proponents of that theory must not believe love can exist. Too bad for them.

[@randyandretti]

NeillCrosskie - I know a lot of people married and in love - most are in their 50s and up.

[@Ds4u2]

@@randyandretti Love is a word that has as many meanings as there are people, some people argue that you can only say that you love someone if you've been married for at least 20 years with them, some say that its love when you've been together for 3 months and the guy offers you a cheeseburger. Get real Randy, love is a concept. Its not something you can measure and "prove" even though women want their men to "prove" their love by giving the women something, usually something of materialistic value like jewellery. Its all BS.

[@randyandretti]

Lucas Starseed - You are nuts. I’m a woman.

[@minaharker6641]

Omg 😱 I love your channel Randy! ❤

[@randyandretti]

Mina Harker - Hi Mina. Thank you. 🤗

[@craigbenz4835]

Just as physics has no Grand Unified Theory to explain all observed phenomenon, psychiatry has no equivalent theory to explain all human behavior. Undoubtedly SET explains some behavior, but also not all. If we've learn nothing else here we've learned that not all human respond to a set of circumstances in the same way. For the time being a theory should be happy if it explains something many people do, and not try to force an explanation of everything.

[@kswannie]

Wise comment. As Dr Grande pointed out, it's a theory, not experimental. A theory can have explanatory value, but if it's not testable, it's not science and we can't call it factual.

[@ashleigh3021]

Behavioural genetics and economics explain all human behaviour.

[@DavenH]

@@kswannie You're hearing a different definition of theory. Scientific theory and experiment are not dichotomous.

[@MichaelDHockenberry]

Conceptualization is important. I have learned after reading your statement you didn’t pay attention.

[@MichaelDHockenberry]

@@ashleigh3021 I knew you were a robot.

[@ananimity7332]

Thank you Dr. Grande...I've not heard of this before. I'll watch your video again as I am constantly learning from you

[@tarrenhunt]

Greatly appreciated once again Dr. Grande. I couldn’t agree more.

[@orchidisle1]

I love the variety of topics within the field of psychology that you do videos on!

[@paulmyers5017]

Finally discovered something worth hearing on the topic, very good channel and video, it's important to maintain a helicopter view on these issues.

[@racheljordan5450]

Hi Dr. Grande! Love your video as always, but I must point out that the study on the college campus with the confederates is so flawed that it mayaswell be considered redundant. Consider you're a woman who is approached by a man you have never met who claims to have noticed you and wants you to go back to his room. This study is not measuring how women feel about casual sex, but more so whether or not that woman wishes to get murdered (slightly exaggerated, but you get my meaning). There's been a lot of follow up studies trying to control the elements of danger, stigma, and shame, and while there is still definitely a difference, it is much much smaller than what the original study suggests.

[@racheljordan5450]

And I just got to the bit where you mention this 😂 I think another important thing to remember is that hetero sex for women is not as pleasurable for women as it is for men. There is a very large orgasm gap (which practically disappears when considering lesbian couples) which might explain part of why women are less excited about sex. There's also the way the sex has been influenced by pornography, women can begin to feel like dolls being used for pleasure as opposed to contributing sexual partners. These micro aggressions need to be remembered when talking about how women feel about sex, because it's not as simple as asking women and men "how often do you want sex?" We need to consider the social/cultural AND biological factors that influence this answer

[@Christopher-md7tf]

@@racheljordan5450 "hetero sex for women is not as pleasurable for women as it is for men" Do you have some data on this? I totally get where you're coming from, I'd just like to offer some male perspective here. I think the statement above is very simplistic and over-generalizing, for example, I would think that it applies much more to younger women who don't know their own bodies and sexual needs as well yet and have more trouble communicating those to their partners (especially casual ones) as opposed to more experienced women who know what they want and need and have no trouble asking for it. Most young women and men simply don't know that the MAJORITY of women cannot orgasm by vaginal stimulation alone. As a result, the women feel like something is wrong with them and the men feel like they're doing something wrong or like they simply don't measure up. Education is key here. I would also like to add, that while a man's orgasm is seemingly more of a guarantee, that doesn't necessarily mean that sex is overall more pleasurable for men than for women. For example, it's offset by the fact that women can have multiple orgasms and they don't have a refractory period in between. There are women that can have 10 orgasms right in a row, the same cannot be said for men. Also, the way up to orgasm might not be as pleasurable as you think for a man because he might be busy "holding it together" and actually forcefully thinking of unerotic stuff because he is trying to last as long as possible, trying to pleasure the woman, which he considers his job. Our erotic pleasure and, if we like it or not, our ego is very bound up in the pleasure of our sexual partner. So in a situation like described above, where the woman is never going to reach climax by regular intercourse, but doesn't know that, or has trouble additionally stimulating herself or asking for it, the man's pleasure is severely reduced as well. The cultural expectations for men can also severely hinder their sexual pleasure, like not being able to fully access and feel your emotions because you were raised to be a strong, tough man. And Porn also objectifies men, not just women. I mean, what matters about the men in porn? Muscular, huge dick, lasts long. That's about it. Again, I'm not trying to belittle the issues that women experience in this regard or paint this as a "women against men" type of thing. I'm just saying that men face issues as well. But you're totally right. When citing studies, one needs to look at how that study was conducted and if the method is actually valid, that is, measuring what it was intended to.

[@bademoxy]

RJ-the sexual revolution and promiscuity have cheapened women and men and their relationships ,which i suspect is a significant factor in current lack of satisfaction for modern women while making men even more disposable .

[@dariabusek3566]

>>whether or not that woman wishes to get murdered

[@samueldawkins]

"microagressions" opinion discarded

[@misse7154]

I especially liked your two messages at the end: 1.) engaging in scientific research is a constructive way to further one's cause; 2.) discussion and debates structured on research and what science has established is the most effective way of presenting a credible argument and maintaining the quality of discussion. Or at least that's how I interpreted them. I think there is a huge variable that was overlooked. I'm not sure if this is something not considered by the research, or in its presentation. However, geography plays a huge role in behavior and attitudes. We saw this play out in the 2016 elections. Sexual norms and activity is going to be very different in a large metropolitan city than perhaps in a more suburban or rural area, where norms are more traditional. From the research presented, it seemed to affirm more traditional values and perceptions of gender roles. I live in a metropolitan area that is liberal, diverse, intellectual, and has the highest proportion of women to men, and at least empirically after living here for many years, observed attitudes and behaviors that turn SET on its head. It's common for women to have had 20, 50, or even 100 partners (I believe the national average is 8, but please someone correct me if I'm wrong). Women have high-powered jobs, wealth, and are very independent. Women are better educated than men, although the area is considered the most well-educated area in the country. Hook-ups and "sexual deviancy" are commonplace and generally accepted. And women here DO pay for sex. If I were to drive even 50 or 100 miles away, I think I would not expect to see even remotely the same attitudes and behaviors. So I strongly believe that the locations of where the samples were taken for these studies may be skewed if not adequately controlled for geographic diversity.

[@blazefairchild465]

I agree , consider your metro area compared to Alaska where the ratio of men to women was something like 7:1. The studies are very interesting hopefully drawn from good well researched facts. Statistics are only good if they are compiled as to not skew in favor of one side .

[@misse7154]

@@blazefairchild465 you're only as good as your data!

[@billboyd2009]

Please can you contextualise your 'women do pay for sex' comment. Do you mean prostitution or something else?

[@lannipie]

Sure, women do pay for sex... emotionally! Lol.

[@tearsofjoyforallthispain]

Rusty Shackleford, based off of what you just said, that would mean men don't need to pay crackheads for sex, yet they do according to you.

[@psyclotronxx3083]

This was a good presentation. Thank you!

[@CharlotEYUT]

I’ve been fascinated by statistics and this subject presents interesting areas to explore in that matter. Great presentation Dr Grande!

[@mlester3001]

In my view sexual economic theory is sexual theory from a male point of view, while feminist sex theory is sex from a female point of view. It is the blind men and the elephant phenomena, each perceiving the issue from a different perspective and focusing the the aspects most important to their own gender. From where I sit both perspectives are correct and what is required to move the discussion forward is an elegant synthesis of both points of view.

[@idontknowanymore8277]

@Siyovaxsh En-sipad-zid-ana what’s anti science about it?

[@mahatmagandhi7588]

I wish that when you mentioned the campus study on men and women agreeing to sex that night, you mentioned why 75% of men agreed, or what reason they gave, and what reason women gave for saying no. You touched on it a little bit but I would like to learn more.

[@parkviewmo]

@Wild Bird Well said!

[@willnill7946]

Wild Bird child support for 18 years, false rape allegations?

[@nathanwilliams5290]

If you’re an average looking guy and a woman walks up and propositions you , it’ s probably a sting operation or a sociology study.

[@manuag3886]

Great video. Glad that you have a well reasoned approach, and that you stay away from sensationalist argumentation.

[@flabbyhoy]

Fantastic video, as always - very helpful for me in keeping a balanced approach to this topic.

[@dcy4063]

very interesting presentation, thank you for taking the time to make it

[@sonnyca]

Women care about how they’re perceived. This is why they downplay their sexual past. Men on the other hand tend to exaggerate their conquests.

[@rapunzelmane9592]

Ragnarok + Men exaggerate their conquests because they, too, care about how they are perceived. It's just that men are perceived positively for their promiscuity and women are perceived negatively for it. If women were perceived positively for being promiscuous, they would brag about, and, probably, increase their sexual conquests.

[@sonnyca]

Would you say that a woman would want to mate with a man who's popular with the ladies? Most men would sleep with sluts because it's fun but not when it comes to finding one to raise their children with. 80% of the women want top 20% of the men, and the rest 80% men are happy to settle down with any woman who'd have them... This might be why some men want their women to talk dirty in bed and the women refuse to. 😂

[@PinballBob1]

The reason for the bias in these kinds of studies is simple. Just like in the IQ controversy, people do NOT want to know the truth if it conflicts with their own viewpoint. Researchers in these fields find what they are looking for. Some individuals can look at counterarguments & change their minds, but it is rare. There is too much social pressure to BELIEVE, & not to make a rational decision based on observable reality. Belief is reassuring, doubt in one's knowledge is deeply disturbing.

[@freemeow]

Such a great video, love how you break it down

[@Dawnseeker2000]

Dr. Grande, would you please consider doing a video on the effects of stalking, with a focus on how each personality disorder might influence the target/victim's response. Thank you, as always!

[@vickils9571]

If you do one on stalking can you include proxy stalking/mobbing/street theater, etc. This is perhaps one of the less understood and threatening forms of stalking, that relies on an organized group of people to perpetrate the stalking. Additionally, one is usually primed prior to the stalking exposure.

[@lisasmith516]

I HAVE BEEN THROUGH MOST IF NOT EVERY ONE OF THESE. UGH YES, Please DO THIS! It is VITAL!

[@lisasmith516]

I could come off as mentally challenged just recounting actual attacks on my person. Some of us, it seems, ARE FATED TO BE HATED. It SUCKS. I want it to stop. I am learning NOT TO TRUST, AND "BOUNDARIES."

[@lisasmith516]

@@brusselsprout5851 I get where you're coming from, I really do cuz they do have a problem or they wouldn't be doing that to another person. But, something about me invites them oh, I have a vulnerability that they see...that I don't recognize...btw I often in the past recommended a book to others called "The Gift of Fear," by Gavin de Becker AND His " Mosaic Threat Assessment Test." That TEST SAVED ME FROM PSYCHOPATHIC MURDER BY #2 HUSBAND. He had LIFE INS. JACKED UP. I CALLED HIM OUT! CALLED WORK, CALLED COPS, WIPED GUNS AND HID THEM SO HE COULDN'T "ACCIDENTALLY " HURT Me...SO, THERE NOW I GUESS I SOUND "CRAZY." WHATEVER... I'M POOR, BUT I SURVIVED. THAT TEST DELIVERED TO MY DIVORCE ATTORNEY TURNED MY DIVORCE CASE INTO A "SETTLEMENT/AGREED DIVORCE.." (I'M PARALEGAL TRAINED AND USED TO HELP FOLKS, AND DID ALSO MOSTLY FAMILY BUSINESS, TAX LAW).

[@lisasmith516]

@colton renker Alpha men do not EXIST except RARELY in a cultured "SOCIETY." But in relatively primitive or EXTREMELY RESTRICTED OR WARMONGERING SOCIETIES? YES. EVEN THEN ALMOST ALL MEN FALL IN TO SUB MALE HELPER/ LT. ROLES (AND REMEMBER, ALL FLESH is subordinate to genetics, cultural/ physical, natural environment and personal decisions or LACK OF AGENCY.) MGTOW IS UNIMPORTANT TO OUR BIG BLUE MARBLE AND NATURE WHICH RULES IT. I THINK (HA) THAT your ALLEGED "ALPHAS"HAVEN'T MET THE MODERN "TECHNOLOGICAL" EQUIVALENT OF TRUE ALPHA MALES i.e., ATTILA THE HUN, STALIN, PUTIN, GENGHIS KHAN, HITLER, IDI AMIN, SADDAM HUSSEIN, POL POT, ETC. (Which actually NOWADAYS, COULD BE SOME LITTLE WORM OF A COMPUTER/HACKING BIOWEAPONEERING TECH NERD!) SUDDENLY SELF ACTUALIZED AND EQUIPPED WITH THE KEYS OF NUCLEAR/BIOLOGICAL/ CHEMICAL POWER( Male/Female) AS FAR AS ALPHA MALES GO,.I CAN'T NAME ANY GENTLE ONES, IT IS NOT A VALUED ALPHA TRAIT. SO, WHEN I hear someone squeaking about Feminazis, I really consider it just agitated men who are judging themselves erroneously as poor victims of EVIL WOMANHOOD! WHICH EXCUSES THEIR IMPOTENCE AND FAILINGS IN THE WORLD. Just dumb CRYBaby rhetoric. Go WATCH DEBORRAH COOPER VIDEOS, AND CARP THERE. SHE IS YOUR TRUE FEMINAZI NIGHTMARE, AN APOCALYPTIC VISION. A REAL VIRAGO OF VEHEMENT DISPUTE OF MGTOW'S RIDICULOUS CLAIMS... I'D LOVE IT IF DR GRANDE FOUND HER AND WENT ON HER SHOW! SHE'S A TOUGH ONE,! LOL?!? I have brought up TWO Good SONS and ONE Good DAUGHTER. I am past 60. I like men, I really appreciate them, and I wish there was more kindness going both ways, but the ugly whiners, who think they DESERVE MY ATTENTION? THE UNHAPPY or the PREDATORS OR ALL OF THE ABOVE? THEY can go JUMP! IN FACT, this past Sunday, I was working an open air market and a Arabic/Lebanese Americanized foreigner tried touching me PERSONALLY and after MY CORRECTION, tried lying and stealing as he was trying to buy my items and also cheat by hiding an item as we transacted the sale. "I told him your culture requires you keep your hands off women and also non relatives anywhere in public!" He argued, I said "you touch me again I will kick you across this market!" He said "you have eyes like a TIGER. I'll not touch you, no more....blah blah, blah!" And He put hands up jumped back...YUCK CREEP! (HA!) OK, SO THERE YOU HAVE IT! PREDATORY ARABIC MASHER GETS CHECKED BY SOLO CHRISTIAN WOMAN! MGTOW? THANKS, PUH-LEEEZI WANT HIM THERE!!! GO, MGTOW-GO! BTW, I CHECKED AN OLD MAN, HISPANIC AMERICANIZED MEXICAN MASHER 2 WEEKS BEFORE, SAME MARKET. P.S. Look for my BOOKS COMING SOON! NOT!

[@zetaone2669]

Dr. Grande, First and foremost thank you for what you do, the content that you put out is well thought out, articulate and easy to assimilate. My greatest take away from this video is when you suggest that everyone should read more. As an avid reader I could not agree with you more. Thank you!

[@rejaneoliveira5019]

Very informative video! In my opinion, both SET and feminist theories can offer some good points but for the most part their ideas are quite extreme. Thank you Dr. Grande for the thorough research and clear explanation:)

[@In3xorable]

Subscribed. This is solid information. I appreciate the input.

[@gwho]

one of my fav videos on YT. well done.

[@vaughanstarr3725]

11:00 - I agree. While a guy making six figures will date the young, hot check out girl, how often would a woman making bank do the same? Toy boys exist, but not nearly to the same degree.

[@glitch605]

The best part about this is the fact that most ppl lie alot about sex. Women dont like to be seen in a negative light attaining to sex, and most have no problem lying about it, and can justify giving a false answer because its how they feel about it right then... but later on those feelings could change. The biggest lie ever told was that women dont like to have sex. The second biggest lie is that men have more sex than they actually do.

[@2ndChildwestCoastSo]

From a health science researcher... yay for this discussion.

[@m3mphis_chick944]

LOVE YOUR VIDEOS; they truly have enlightened me to the "flip side of the coin"... also do you have a video on SCT? I know I could google it (technically, and I shall); HOWEVER, I would love to listen to your analysis of such matters. Thanks so much :)

[@JuanRodriguez-tr6st]

The economical theory plus behavioral biology seems to make sense to me. Going to read more empirical research on this 👍

[@EmperorsNewWardrobe]

Juan Rodriguez did you have any luck finding evidence? I can’t affordably access the original SET paper but really want to find verification of the theory!

[@2lynnw]

Thank you Dr Grande.

[@carbon1479]

One thing that seems really obvious, ie. debates in the SET vs. counterpoints, about women wanting sex less than men vs. men seeming less trustworthy, it seems like a significant of amount of the difference could be degree of biological/physiological commitment to outcomes.

[@jackstratif6937]

I saw a convincing study that entirely eliminated the differences between men and women’s interest for casual sex that was seen in the Clarke and Hatfield studies. What the researchers did was have men and women select each other on a dating site, and then offer them the option for casual sex. 50 percent of men and women agreed to it

[@doreenachtymichuk9973]

I've slept with only my husband, so not well versed, but WOW. how to make sex ugly and practible in 10 minutes. yuck.

[@xzagg]

This is about the economics of selling sex. Very different to a loving relationship

[@dariabusek3566]

>>I've slept with only my husband, so not well versed, but WOW. how to make sex ugly and practible in 10 minutes

[@doreenachtymichuk9973]

@@dariabusek3566 ??? why would I need that ? i'm used to people laughing at my morals, so have at it.

[@dariabusek3566]

@@doreenachtymichuk9973 I'm sorry: I think you have misunderstood my humor. There is a saying, "If you like sausage, it's better if you don't watch it being made." By which I mean: If you want to retain your purely romantic view of sex (and want to close your eyes to the fact that base urges determine people's unconscious behavior), then don't look too closely at the statistics.

[@nalissolus9213]

not an argument.

[@LuisCarruthers]

I'm glad I came across this. I am a straight male and am unsuccessful with women. When I typed in "Heterosexual Female Sexuality" in the search bar the results were all videos from LGBT, blue-haired women with titles like "10 signs you're a lesbian" and "compulsory heterosexuality". A pretty revealing insight into the ideology that informs KZbin's algorithm.

[@Laura-gd4ku]

Considering that heterosexuality is the norm and is usally not specifically mentioned it makes sense that only homoxexuals are popping up in the results because they usally mention the word heterosexuality in contrast to their own sexuality. If you type in female sexuality you will find results about mostly heterosexual females. Its the same with typing in "white doctor" in google images and getting mostly results of black doctors, but typing in "doctor" gets you mostly white doctors. Its really not that difficult to understand.

[@valor36az]

Best part of the video is the advice at the end, an excellent philosophy for life in general.

[@Duttyyy]

Even if we ignore the facts that men are much less likely to be victims of physical or sexual abuse and the whole one egg, nine month pregnancy, versus unlimited amount of semen aspect, I think the campus study would have wildly different results in different countries/cultures. Countries that have stronger social service infrastructures and equality between the sexes, where women are less dependent on men for support during pregnancy and after childbirth and less likely to be shamed for having a one night stand, are more likely to accept an offer from an attractive male. And sure, we can model human sexuality in many different ways, but a model, even a good one, is just that, a model. I would suspect that different models would be found most descriptive of sexual interactions between people, depending on location, age and economical status of participants.

[@brk932]

You have higher sexual power but also higher responsibility. One night stands pose a lot more danger to a woman. Shaming is logical because a woman's mistake can lead to another human being. Raising a child is VERY expensive. Single motherhood is far from optimal and a lot of studies show that children from such background are more likely to grow up criminals. Should the social system carry the burden? Aren't half of taxpayers men? You can't have your cake and eat it too. We depend on each other. A woman can choose to have a child and a man not really. A man has no rights when in comes to becoming a parent only responsibility when it happens. Women find 80% of men unattractive. How do think the average man feels when he has to jump to through hoops? Or get's called a creep when he starts a conversation with a woman? Those kind of differences between the genders exist almost in every modern country and are bigger than the social system! "Even if we ignore the facts that men are much less likely to be victims of physical ... abuse" Ever heard of proxy violence? Battered husband Syndrome?

[@ellenfalls1330]

Dude, you are the man. I haven't had time to listen to this one yet, but you are getting into territory here that I find very interesting. '70s feminism seems to have become "the enemy" on some fronts today, and I'm fascinated to find out why/how.

[@jasonfields7058]

Because.....its about power now instead of actual equality? Women have since got equal rights and more so extra rights over men to the point of corruption. Now ignoring that. Since the "revolution" already occurred, the more vocal of the gender and its icons and deep thinkers have become extreme and imbalanced in their attempt to legitimize their relevance and thus its continued funding but regurgitating the narrative.

[@parrotshootist3004]

Since 60s feminism was eugenics wave.. Margaret Sanger? Saying that its surprising how many prominent feminists through time, are directly, or indirectly are associated with eugenics.

[@parrotshootist3004]

@colton renker No I mean eugenics. Tools can be whatever they like, as long as the aims are achieved through those tools.

[@parrotshootist3004]

@colton renker If you twist eugenics to fit what hamsters do, sure.

[@parrotshootist3004]

@colton renker Odd, I was talking about you. You twisted the word, 'eugenics', to mean ordinary mating/pair bonding.

[@johnblanckenberg4772]

I don't know how valid these stats are, but it has been said that one's baseline chances of divorce in the US is 50%. The likelihood goes up to 70% if your wife start earning more than you. And up to 85% if she undergoes bariatric surgery. If true, this might support the hypergamy construct regarding SET.

[@thisisgonnahurt2574]

we are simply animals,no matter how many big words you say will not change that fact,as soon as we stop acting like these fake shallow things philosphy has created,and start acting like the animals we areall these problems will go away,we have rejected the natural way and it is destroying our world in EVERY way.

[@MrEssedis]

I hope u live in the woods without laws and social structure then... Like a proper animal.

[@zemimsky]

This was so interesting to watch!

[@Crapcarp555]

The problem with your conclusion here is the fact that academia and science as practices are biased towards Feminism. As a result, they're incredibly hostile towards non-feminist and anti-feminist theories and beliefs. Sure, the fundamental principles of academia and science demand neutrality and seek to eliminate bias as much as possible, but those principles are meaningless if they're not applied to particular subjects. So it's kinda hard to see science as neutral when all the scientists are condemning you as a misogynist and the ones that aren't are either not speaking up or getting ostracized when they do speak up.

[@wl415]

Lmao do you live under a rock? When have these practices start favouring feminism? Lmao wrong planet buddy.

[@Crapcarp555]

@@wl415 And yet, the majority of university professors are feminists or at least uphold feminist ideals, academic platforms normally don't host positions critical of Feminism or if they do such positions are outweighed by the feminist position (a single non-feminist against two or more feminists on the same panel, for example), and non-feminist events often get cancelled due to complaints; just to name a few examples. None of this ever happens to feminists in any capacity. Clearly, it's not me that's on the wrong planet.

[@megeles]

I noticed that the resons why women were waiting longer to have sex were not mentioned. I think it would have been interesting to see if there were some common reasons why women wanted to wait longer. From my experiences with men and those of the women I know the men we have made wait for sex wanted a relationship and the men we slept with earlier were more reluctant. So were the women in this study making their partners wait because they took longer to be ready for sex with their partner or were they making him wait in order to be perceived as higher value when they actually wanted sex sooner. There are plenty of women whose ideal romantic relationship involves jumping into bed with a guy and just have everything be all sweet and rosy from there but that is not realistic.

[@stanzaschulz4339]

yup. This whole thing was skewed making sex very materialistic and not taking into consideration a woman's sex drive. We are NOT that different, this whole thing is really kindof a gender role thing, and I feel like a lot of this is dated.

[@a24-45]

Dr Grande, thanks for standing up for science! Science asks questions... "what if...? and imagines futures better than any that have ever existed..science isn't satisfied with "that's just the way things are and always have been, who knows why and who cares" .And unlike religion and politics/ideology, Science is the only discipline that KNOWS that it doesn't have all the answers, and that it never will. We would all benefit from applying more scientific thinking in our lives.

[@propheteyebert7063]

Yet "believe the science" is now the favorite phrase of those who want to ban the scientific method and replace it with political dogma.

[@IonIsFalling7217]

Arguing can be fun, *especially* when based on science.

[@edgabrielsen4725]

Wow, I love the way you end a fascinating discussion with more general comments about vitriol, extremist views, and the advantages of participating in the scientific community. Read more!

[@edgabrielsen4725]

@@M_SC Well, I guess you could argue that misogyny and homophobia are not unique to the scientific community, but can be found everywhere. I dont think that is a reason to discount all of science. Not sure what you're getting at there?

[@edgabrielsen4725]

@@grasshoppingsnappoppin302 I mean, how does one respond to such a sweeping generalization? 3000 years of history?

[@edgabrielsen4725]

@@grasshoppingsnappoppin302 I'm going to look those up.

[@edgabrielsen4725]

@Torie Beck it seems like bait. Trying to start a fight.

[@grasshoppingsnappoppin302]

@@edgabrielsen4725 Check it out.

[@dutchmaster1999]

This guy is as much of a doctor as Dr. Seuss

[@kittieshousefashionstyle1590]

Lol this guy says really unsettling things on his videos but he does a good job of trying to lighten their blow bc he knows he would be cancelled fast. It’s really sick.

[@whoopshoopadoop8900]

I like the way you present the info. Super easy to follow. I remember trying to read some of these papers and they're full of jargon.

[@morgantarot3351]

I think the reason why 0% of women said yes to having sex with a guy they'd just met that night was because of the danger it can pose. Women and girls are taught to be wary of strange men. Some of the women who were asked might have actually wanted to say yes but didn't dare... and before anyone mentions risk and how men are more willing to risk it, you've got to think about real life here, men are not taught to be afraid of strange women in the same way that girls are taught to fear strange men. Women are more likely to be murdered by a man rather than the other way round too so the risk is greater and so it really isn't a fair study.

[@mukhtarbekabdurazakov973]

That is interesting. Although I have studied and worked a lot in sphere of economics, I have never heard about sex vs economics 🇰🇿

[@billboyd2009]

Odd considering prostitution is the 2nd oldest profession! ( the oldest being whatever the sex was exchanged for).

[@cunjoz]

counter arguments to SET: 1. SET dehumanizes women - not a relevant counter argument to whether human interactions are such or not. but it also dehumanizes men since men are presented merely as resource providers on this view. and dehumanization is a problem only if we have an unjustifiably lofty view of humanity 2. people do fall in love - not a counter argument because love/falling in love, according to SET, could be reduced to SET. after all, if you're a reductive naturalist then falling in love is just a mechanism to facilitate sexual reproduction which facilitates the genes continued existence 3. patriarchal societies - even though there has been a cultural shift in the west, to the point where it's no longer acceptable to frown upon female promiscuity (even though it diminishes the ability to pair bond and form long term relationships), other factors, like youth and attractiveness still play a role in SMV of women whereas the standards of mens SMV remained unchanged throughout the cultural shift - meaning, SET can explain human behavior even outside of patriarchal societies. moreover, SET might even explain why patriarchal societies came to be, if it is the fact of the matter that women tend to favor men with greater physical strength and status 4. men hold more sexist attitudes - not relevant to whether SET is true or not 5. SET is hostile to gender equality again, SET is seeks to explain human interactions, so whether or not it is true is in no way connected to its harm to whatever goals the feminists have. gravity is harmful to my ability to not stick to the ground, but still, the theory of gravity explains why i always land after i jump. P.S. just because the "extremists" don't find the other side to be convincing or relevant, that doesn't mean there is an anti-scientific bias. what i've found is that it's actually MGTOWs, the red pill community and incels are the ones who most cite the scientific literature and research while those who bring forth counter arguments present merely value judgements, which, as far as i can see, aren't truth apt propositions. P.P.S. i also find your use of the word construct rather than phenomenon rather interesting.

[@user-gy7bg1rv6o]

This is a very articulate way to talk about sex trade! I didn't really understand Dr.Todd's opinion on this! Really unbiased!

[@CarolinaTVGirl]

Hi Dr. Grande. I'm seeking a therapist for my teenage son. What characteristics should I look for when choosing a therapist for my teenager? Can you make a video about this?

[@keynesisaclown]

I am MGTOW. No extreme views here. Just call them as I see them. Life has been great over the past couple years since I adopted this philosophy. I couldn't be happier with women pushed to the periphery of my life. Great video! Thanks.

[@Macheako]

Amen bruh. WHO said we fucking have NO CHOICE in liking, or wanting to associate ourselves with females that have NOTHING to do with us? It was an unfair position thrust onto us as little boys. And it was wrong for them to do do. But we all know women NEED men for monetary gain....so I can't say it doesn't make any sense for why they teach us like that ;)

[@buckethead6008]

@Vert Trev Lol if incel going their own why you triggered? Does that what women want?

[@keynesisaclown]

@wqzlfhegdvarxpisbumoctyj HaHa.

[@Will.Flavell]

If guys that claim they are MGTOW but complain about not getting laid are not MGTOW if you were truly going you own way you wouldn’t be bitching about women

[@punkkumies1283]

@Vert Trev there can be whiny MGTOWs,but there are also MGTOWs who are just independent men and dont need a woman.

[@ivayloi736]

I guess it's more interesting when there is the idea of a debate, and "vs". But SET is a fact, not a theory. Women have womb - do you get it (wo)man, man have testosterone (i.e. constant sex drive). These are biological facts (otherwise we would not reproduce), not assumptions... But I get you, you are an academic, in this age, you can't talk about facts, everyone has just an opinion... I'm not an academic though, and can state the facts. The females either trade their womb for something in gynocentric society (like humanity), or males fight each other for access, and the female just accepts the winner (for example - bears, bulls). The so called "patriarchy" and feminism are are both gynocentric, since they involve trade most benefiting the female. They look different on the surface, but they are about different resources that the female needed at different historical times. In the past this was - someone to work for her (because there weren't office or models/actresses jobs then) and protect her and her children (there wasn't state police). Nowadays, the female needs are more like having fun, entertainment from males, and yes resources are again a factor, but they are managed via the state police and forced resource extraction from the male. The female nowadays, can basically have sex with anyone, decide whether she wants to keep the baby, and use the state to extract resources from both a particular man, and the society as a whole (via taxation). So this debate patriarchy vs feminism is quite funny, it's really old gynocentrism vs new gynocentrism. Which is better and which worse for males? Actually, neither is particularly bad or good. However, it changes the composition of the male population, since different qualities are valued by the female. In patriarchy, the male population becomes more masculine, so it drives the society forward, via technological and scientific achievements. Such society prefers capitalism and entrepreneurship, individual leadership. The bad side are constant wars and fight for domination. In a feminist society, science degrade and from there the whole social structure, since females value males for looks and entertainment value. So we end up in emotionally driven, animalistic society, not rationally. However, there are less wars, less competition. This society prefers socialism and big "daddy" government (since it's a fatherless society). Another observation is that socialism always fails, so feminist societies destroy themselves with time, or are overrun by progressive patriarchal societies. it's just not economically plausible. And this shows how a real debate which gynocentric system is better, would end. It would be better if both sexes accept the fact that it's always gynocentrism though, since this is just the way humanity evolved. I personally prefer feminism nowadays, since at least it allows you to "pass" and don't "trade" with the female. Don't forget that in patriarchy, all men are forced to marry, and they are shamed if they don't provide for a family. The biggest negative side of feminism is the irrational, unscientific, post factual society, so I tend to avoid it and read about past societies, our ancestors, since they had higher IQ and just produced better music, better art, better philosophy, better literature... better everything. You must be really blind to not see how patriarchy vs feminism compare culture wise, and like I said - the reasons are obvious - what kind of men are tolerated - rational, productive, strong vs pretty, fun, superficial. If I cared about the society, patriarchy is the better system, and this is why it ruled the humanity through most history. And, no this is not an opinion (like I said, I actually prefer to be left alone for which feminism works better), it's just a fact based on economy and sociology.

[@lannipie]

Ivaylo I wow. You obviously don’t know much about Scandinavian countries. I actually managed to read your articulate diatribe but you need to stop naval gazing and study a little harder.

[@somethingyousaid5059]

Suffice it to say, I never had a chance. I never had a chance.

[@miloinindo]

Let me start by clarifying that I am, at best, a 5 and, at that time, I was basically broke. I am 5'10", so not tall. I have none of the typical characteristics that women supposedly desire in men. Yet, when I was single, about half of my first dates ended in sex. I am not "smooth", I don't have "game", I didn't do PUA bullshit, etc. All I did was was "not be an asshole". I treated them like I would any other friend. I didn't judge them for their promiscuity, past, etc. The women wanted to have sex as much as I did, but they didn't want to deal with the social bullshit that comes with having sex. So, if they felt safe and comfortable with me, sex usually happened. I think the idea that women don't want sex as much as men is true, but the disparity is far less than what we tend to think because of the social pressures we put on women concerning sex.