Sexual Economics Theory vs. Feminist Theory | MGTOW, INCEL, & Science

[@antonydrossos5719]

Rational analysis on such a touchy topic is always welcome.

[@derstoffausdemderjoghurtis]

Hmm the internet feminists always show high emotional affect^^

[@francesbernard2445]

For sure. Trying to apply rational analysis to understand irrational behavior better without a discussion about personality disorders at all too instead of only presenting 2 theories in the social sciences to an audience after being asked to is like trying to is sort of like trying to put the cart before the horse. What horse in their right mind would want to stick around there with nothing to do yet while seeing the bit which will be in his mouth while the grass is already looking way greener than behind that cart? At least if it is only 2 field theories ahead to look at the horse is always going to be far more content to just stand there waiting to get a treat instead of surprise - the bit in that horse's mouth again.

[@acmartialarts2227]

The more popular something is the more weirdos get involved

[@martianpudding9522]

I'm a woman and when I imagine that study where participants are asked if they want to have sex I'm not thinking about whether or not I would like to have sex at all, I'm just thinking about who is this serial killer amd how do I get away.

[@edvh88]

Martian Pudding that’s why they all said No. That was my first thought too- personal safety. Something men don’t have to worry about when they date (cis het men that is)

[@kathryngeeslin9509]

Exactly. Accepting the wrong offer can be suicide.

[@tony6795]

@@fealdorf Bruh, are you saying the scenario of a woman murdering a man is as probable as a man murdering a woman? Real life?

[@c.christopher6115]

So women can''t have guns? Or can lead you to people with guns? Agreeing to go somewhere to have sex with a stranger is dangerous for both sexes.

[@CanwegetSubscriberswithn-cu2it]

Well yes, because in the case of a pregnancy, women have a lot more to lose than men (if it's a stranger). It's the basis for the entirety of the SET. The cost/benefit analysis for sex is very different for man and women. This different feeling towards a random encounter is an expression of that fact.

[@Godless_Doc]

To be fair, women may not have accepted the offers for lots of reasons including concerns for personal safety, which men generally don’t have to think about when they’re approached by a strange woman. It may have nothing to do with sex drive and more to do with a survival instinct.

[@Design____ByS]

The ones who conducted the study and drew conclusions were probably men ahah

[@mjinba07]

Yes. A well adjusted woman will think this kind of approach breaks with common sense and appropriate social behavior. If the guy is willing to do that, what other norms is he likely to break? He's showing lack of judgment. So, STDs? Criminal background? Mental illness? Addiction problems? At the very least, social ineptitude and emotional immaturity.

[@samuelntim-addae2843]

@@Design____ByS While I agree that the model is over simplistic it would be dishonest to act as though certain sexual characteristics do not increase the likelihood of starting relationships. I feel that this model is a step in the right direction when trying to create a multivariable analysis of sexual decision making. I believe that the model applies to both genders as well.

[@billwilson6248]

The point is that they declined the offer. Whether they feared for their safety, reputation or were simply unattracted, is irrelevant to the study. If the sex drive is strong enough, it overwhelms other concerns.

[@AkaiKnight]

How would that idea be able to coexist in the same world where one-night stands exist?

[@jayrossatx]

I really appreciate your dispassionate and balanced approach to investigating and discussing opposing views. It stands to reason if we are truly interested in truth, emotional neutrality is paramount, as well, we are open and willing to abandon even long-standing views and conclusions in favor of better evidence . Keep it up!

[@edgabrielsen4725]

I am definitely getting hooked on your videos. The content is so interesting, varied, and supported by all the studies and articles you read. Your ability to articulate nuanced concepts with critical reflection is something to which I aspire.

[@edgabrielsen4725]

@Bob Smith He sites a number of articles from scientific journals. These are listed in the video description.

[@thequestion4818]

@@edgabrielsen4725 wow. He made a works cited page. He can pass a redemial English class.

[@edgabrielsen4725]

@@thequestion4818 Why the sarcasm? Are you trolling? It's remedial. There's no such word as redemial.

[@NeThZOR]

@@thequestion4818 redemial LUL

[@maidenmarian1]

@Bob Smith He sites a number of articles and studies based on scientific evidence. See Ed Gabrielsen's reply to you.

[@k-tube6802]

Dear Dr. Grande: I am positively amazed by your way of addressing controversial subjects with, always, an attempt for accuracy, cautiousness in your word choice, and calm-mindedness. To me, your channel is starting to be a bit more than only about mental health topics (which already is a lot): thanks, sincerely!

[@TheKaappari]

I love that dr. Grande is here to discuss ideas and not to score points.

[@BarryBranton]

The moment doc goes off the plantation is the moment he is fired from his comfy job.

[@marylamb7707]

@@BarryBranton that's kind of mean. He doesn't have to do this on youtube. Hes kind.

[@SwimminWitDaFishies]

What ARE you talking about?? Dr Grande scores ALL kinds of points -- in fact, he scored 100K more viewers in a matter of only 90 days, didn't he? How do you explain that??

[@anthonypalermo8816]

He does the opposite, simps are like that.

[@jhonfamo8412]

Come on he's here to score points.

[@RadicalAngel]

What a pleasant and optimistic spin on this subject matter! Fantastic work, Dr. Grande, thank you so much for breaking these concepts down and inviting respectful communication. Right on!

[@k.ambriz9789]

This is a fascinating topic. Thank you for offering a balanced perspective. I think that the precipitants of sexual behavior are probably a mix of biological and social construction theories. It's hard to separate our behavior from our culture or biology so maybe that's why it's so hard to study.

[@Occult_Gibbet]

I would say that with the existence of these "movements" on the rise in conjunction with the increase of peoples ability to be socially withdrawn, that biological reasons would definitely outweigh social upbringing & environment. In simpler terms, men are just horny and actually kind of desperate but these "philosophies" aren't making it any easier for them or their peers, and even though they may offer some support network they're actually just kind of embarrassing.

[@mon_ange333mony4]

@@Occult_Gibbet Have you thought that men are horny because of their frequent porn use and other cultural incentives that stimulates their drive. They re a big sociological, cultural burden on those men to be like ' that' meaning horny for the sake of it and there aren t too many fingers pointed at them to make them wonder 'why'. Why is being horny more important thab being caring for example? It s still a culture that descredits women for being horny as that means less chances to preserve a reputation of being a good mother and wife but there isn t the same for men. Painly put a woman who is openly sexual is called crazy or unstable whereas a man is not.

[@theswissmiss69]

@@Occult_Gibbet why would the biological reasons outweigh the social ones? And I‘m sorry but I hate the whole stigma of „Men only want sex.“ and „Men are always horny.“.

[@cindyrhodes]

Thank you VERY much for that priceless closing advice about arguing/debating/discussing without allowing negative emotions to control the tone of the experience!

[@RapidBlindfolds]

Oscar Wilde said it best: "Everything in the world is about sex. Except sex. Sex is about power."

[@danielblank9917]

Unless you're someone who engages in mutaully beneficial and consentual sex

[@evagabrysova8871]

@@danielblank9917 Agreed, I don't consider Oscar Wilde a role model in general :D

[@terrorists-are-among-us]

Only to incels.

[@barbarabagatin8962]

Michel Foucault.

[@theboyisnotright6312]

​@@evagabrysova8871very smart man tho. I certainly can't disprove that quote 😂😂

[@po.po.poquito]

Dr.Grande have you covered information on power dynamics in relationships? "The avoidant partner has more power than the partner who approaches." Sparked my interest.

[@manuelmanzanero5057]

Surely Grande's answer will be more accurate and elegant, but let's try. The fact here, when we have one person who approaches and another one who avoids, or waits and passively validates the first one's move, not only creates a power asymmetry in the relationship, but this last also becomes an emotional asymmetry over time. The side that invests more effort in seeking or building the relationship also loses more with the breakup than the one that has invested little or nothing, because the first one gets wasted and ruined a work built with its time, its effort, and without help. Falling in love is a trashy, perishable biochemical trap. But love is a long-run construction, which requires time and effort. When the investment in time and effort is not symmetrical, the power balance in the couple is neither. But the same goes for love. Because people only really love what is difficult to achieve, whose conservation demands effort and forces them to get involved. That is, what we fear to lose. For the side that works harder, its partner ends up being irreplaceable, because it is an investment made for her and the bond that links them. For the side that makes less effort, its partner is always circumstantial, disposable and replaceable, because it can validate the investment of any other person as it does with its current partner. With the breakup, that side may not win anything, but also loses nothing. Because that person has not invested anything, she (he) has not exposed herself in anything, her partner has done everything in her place. And a relationship that is not symmetric from the beginning (because one side is expected to actively approach the other passive or avoidant side) will never be so. On the contrary, this asymmetry will grow worse and worse and will invade more spaces of the shared lives' domain. And today, the whole sexual dynamics is crossed by this phenomenon. Half of the population strives and competes to approach another half that only waits passively and chooses. Or, what is the same: one half has to do all the work while the other has all the power.

[@delneus]

@@manuelmanzanero5057 you've put very beautifully into words what is a very underappreciated and large problem with mordern dating, thank you

[@ketchupking9972]

@@manuelmanzanero5057The part "Because people only really love what is difficult to achieve" - really hits home - why before feminism, men would only ever marry virginal women - today weak men marry used goods, then it almost always ends in divorce & the man losing out on his kids, often paying alimony. Never trust a slut, you can't turn a hoe into a housewife find a cute moral girl to put a ring on or don't bother.

[@manuelmanzanero5057]

@@ketchupking9972 My choice as a man is "don't bother." Because it is not about the moral behavior of individuals, regardless of their gender. It's not about whether a woman is "moral" or a slut. It's a matter of sexual dynamics, or a power, empathy & love imbalance directly related to it. The current sexual dynamics favors women in a massive scale (and here I cease to be politically correct: when in my first comment I talked about the half that does all the effort vs. the half that has all the power, it is by no means a secret that I was referring, statistically, to men and women, which does not mean that there are individual cases of active women and passive or avoidant men).

[@badjouras]

@@ketchupking9972 did you really refer to non-virgin women as "used goods" and "sluts"? That worldview is messed up.

[@AnnNunnally]

I was wondering which of these studies was the one where the researchers asked college age women and men for sex. Did they ever interview the subjects about why they did or did not want to have sex with a stranger? There can be a variety of reasons why someone would refuse: Having an existing relationship Fear of being assaulted Fear of STD Fear of pregnancy ( women only, obviously) Religious (prohibition on premarital sex) Lack of attraction to person requesting sex I think it would be a useful aspect to this study to find out exactly why people made their decisions.

[@DIVAD291]

Why wouldn't men be scared of potentially ruining their lives by getting a girl pregnant?

[@frogandtoady]

@@DIVAD291 in general society, men usually aren't held as accountable for getting someone pregnant. also, pregnancy is 7+ months of being disabled. childbirth is *at least* 24h of agony. even after that, pregnancy changes someone's body forever-- people can develop diabetes, joint problems, etc. if a woman is seen as "sleeping around too much" or isn't married etc, people tend to be much harsher on her than the man who got her pregnant. at the very least, the guy doesn't have any physical repercussions. there's more i could say about this but does this answer your question?

[@The_Gallowglass]

@@frogandtoady Ow.

[@kekepagele8135]

Exactly. And why 75% of those men said yes even when those same circumstances could have been at play.

[@AlexMelancholyThinker]

moss bot this is my opinion, from my point of view not knowing much about this sexual economics subject he is talking about, applying to the real world with other types of economics I can understand why men are held less accountable. My point of view in this is that the supplier is often seen as more of a bad guy than the buyer, you see, a person feels pity (normally) when they see a heroine addict on the street, but they would (normally) have disgust towards the drug dealer. In my example, the women are the drug dealer, and the men are the buyer.

[@lundsweden]

In my experience, when you are down, economically and or depressed, people will generally look down on you and not want to be your friend/lover/whatever. But when you are doing much better in life, suddenly you matter, you're human after all and more express interest in you. So I don't think this is just a male/female thing or just a sexual thing. The Bible said the poor have no friends, and my life experience would support that. I WAS poor, now I'm not, so it is interesting to see the difference in how people treat you.

[@carlthoresen3232]

“No body knows you, when you’re down and out, In your pocket - not one penny, And as for friends, you don’t have any…”

[@disaffectedmale]

I'm loaded and have no friends, lovers or intimacy in my life at all.

[@lundsweden]

@@disaffectedmale Thats interesting. Is that by choice or not?

[@isaacinternet]

I notice that too. I wonder though how our own perception of our circumstances impacts how people communicate and react to us. Perhaps, at least part of this, is that WE feel better about ourselves and that attracts people to us more.

[@lundsweden]

@@isaacinternet I think it is part of that, but particularly as society becomes more fragmented, I find a lot more barriers between people. Here in Australia in the 70s, everyone would talk to everyone. Now, some people in my own family even refuse to even talk to me or others they think are below them at (rare) family gatherings. I won't accept that behaviour, so I'll never go back.

[@privatesniffles1607]

quality vid doc, good to see you are not afraid to approach this topic despite the initial backlash, i liked the message at the end

[@grasshoppingsnappoppin302]

When the "Going" gets tough, the tough get going.

[@johnpaul5474]

Years ago, I was seeing a psychologist who suggested I do a "cost-benefit analysis" on some of the friendships I was struggling through at the time. He was right, very right; perhaps "more right" than he knew or could have known. But I was uncomfortable then, as I am now, with the application of financial terms and concepts to human emotions and relationships. Edit: "SET" is a new one on me, so I can't contribute much to this discussion right now. Sounds interesting, though, and no doubt there's something to it; sounds ripe for parody, too.

[@AlvaroALorite]

I am un confortable with that terminology too. I think it's more "human" to ask yourself "is this relationship fulfilling? Is it balanced?" you are essentially doing a very similar analysis, but in the end you are getting rid of the concept that "a relationship must give me profit otherwise its not interesting", that is a dangerous mentality (sociopaths only engage socially if they see a profit)

[@Savvynomad225]

I don't think money is meant as the cost/benefit basis on relationships....I can see it being a good practice basing it on time/care/values rather than money. For example, if a friendship/relationship is requiring more time or care than you receive back, or if values are required to be compromised for the relationship to work, then these would be high cost/low value dynamics. The flip side would be the opposite and you could presume that there are areas of your own improvement. Etc.

[@Howitchewstofeel5gum]

I totally get what you mean. I'm also not comfortable with applying this cold terminology to human beings. It's just that sometimes we get attached to certain people and situations just because they're familiar or because we think we have to be loyal to our friends and family or sth like that. But there comes a point when having certain relationships just doesn't make sense anymore, because although you're investing your valuable time and energy into them, they don't actually add anything to your life, or worse, they are actively holding you back from evolving. And the first step in the process of letting unrecesourceful old things go is to become aware of how much they bog you down, which was probably the point of this exercise. Or, if a relationship is positive for you, putting it under a microscope will clearly show you that, and as a result, you will appreciate it more. It is never a bad idea to gain more awareness and clarity.

[@shamtradtam3769]

That's just a mental barrier. Humans on a large scale can be dehumanized & explained clearly using methods we usually apply to objects or even abstract quantities. For example, researchers from my university in India showed that the risk of stampedes can be reduced if we think of crowds at holy sites like Hajj or Kumbh Mela as fluid molecules & model the roads & places at the holy sites using fluid mechanics terms.

[@terrorists-are-among-us]

Nice. All his female clients will ditch their deadbeat boyfriend 😂

[@cindyrhodes]

This is definitely a "Dr. Grande" day, as I binge on your videos. I am learning about so much that I never really considered! This one kind of makes me glad that I'm out of the dating scene. LOL

[@CazzoneMagrolino]

I've discovered your channel through this video and proceded to watch other ones, you probably make the best psychology videos on KZbin . You earned a new subscriber.

[@amelianannette972]

I actually find that I disagree with your portrayal of feminist theory. Most feminist theory does not state that individual men actively seek to subjugate women, rather that there is a system and common mindset that does so.

[@blazefairchild465]

Well, Dr.Grande this was enjoyably deep. I needed a second cup of coffee to boot my brain up a notch to understand it. Thank you for your closing words , people that feel it's ok to be rude on these comment sections would be ashamed of they used their own names.

[@lisasmith516]

I'm sorry, what rude comments? I didn't see them. Debate yes, rude? No. But then perhaps my "filter" is on too high a setting. Often, those who bemoan "this or that" do exactly the same thing in other venues or contexts, but never see themselves as clearly as they think they do others.

[@AMM3.]

I had a male sex worker friend (strait) , I also worked the sex industry. We had completely different customers. His were usually women in their 50s or 60s, divorced or widowed, just lonely. I didn't really get a "type" like that. But it was still generally lonely guys. We both found it was more about spending time together. sex was still the objective but they would usually pay for extra time to talk or snuggle

[@DameOfDiamonds]

Stop using the word widowed, use unmarried

[@bigboy7927]

@@DameOfDiamonds What is wrong with the word widowed? How can you be offended by the the word widowed? please explain.

[@jasonmages4323]

I always enjoy listening/watching Dr. Grande's work with the channel. It Doesn't matter whether he is Analyzing a case or Speculating about what could be happening in regards to various social constructs. I foresee this channel gaining an abundance of subscribers in the near/distant future.

[@QuinGuitardotcom]

I’d love to hear your thoughts on the high male suicide rate and the potential causes of it, and how gender differences relate to suicidal thoughts and actions overall.

[@Anson120]

Most of them suffer from depression. The loss of interest that comes along with depression is the worst state one can be in.

[@QuinGuitardotcom]

Torie Beck Hi, thanks for the response. I’d be thrilled to read your responses to some of my questions. I’ve seen plenty of articles about these topics, but still have plenty of questions that remain unanswered. -If there are many more women attempting suicide than men, why aren’t they dying much more than men from suicide? Are women just using methods that don’t work? Why? If they used methods that worked, are you saying that there would be more women than men dying by suicide? -OR, Do you mean that a woman just needs more attempts to reach her goal? Meaning 1 woman attempts multiple times before dying by suicide... There is a HUGE difference between saying that more women than men are attempting suicide, and women who attempt suicide use more attempts to succeed. In other words, the studies demonstrating that more women are attempting suicide need to make sure they only count a woman who attempts suicide 3 times as ONE WOMAN, not THREE women.

[@WinterWitch01]

@@QuinGuitardotcom I've lost my daughter's father, my uncle, my close friends husband and a coworkers husband all to suicide in the past 5 years. I've also lost a female family member to suicide. My best friend (female) has attempted several times and survived. Among others. As far as everyone knows 3 out of the 4 men succeed in ending their lives on their first and only try. 3 out of 4 used fire arms. My personal perspective, women are more likely to admit we're not okay and get help. I've done it myself. My daughter has PTSD from her dads suicide (she was 11) along with suicidal ideation. She's been in for therapy for several years.

[@QuinGuitardotcom]

Angie Stone Well, that is very sad and I’m sorry for your losses. I think you are right that men tend to repress things and don’t get help like women do. Men don’t want to express their emotions and make themselves vulnerable. It isn’t as socially accepted for men to be vulnerable or show weakness. As you seem to understand, suicides of men end up harming women. This has unfortunately led to the struggles of your daughter. This is why I think feminists should definitely care about helping men, instead of shifting the focus to this vague idea that “women have it worse/attempt more often” at every chance they get. Men and women are in each others lives and the issues that they face are each others issues. Men’s issues are women’s issues, because we are all connected in some way.

[@WinterWitch01]

@@MrCPPG I did no such thing, neither did any other wife, mother, sister, daughter or friend in any of these men lives.

[@bamadilloable]

I didn't even know there was theories like this, Thanks a lot for explaining some of it, would really like to do some more research to get to know much more about this topic

[@Reqcore]

Now this is how you are objective! I tripped into this video by accident and now I'm a subscriber, amazing work!

[@cindyrhodes]

It's really interesting to see how the sexual "value" theories affects the community/cultural morality!

[@edvh88]

Mermaid Mansion and how putting such a high expectation and double standard on women’s sexuality I think makes it really hard for us to identify as sexual beings with rights and desires.

[@ultradevon04]

Emily Van Heukelom women have rights and desires but greater consequences and responsibility due to frivolous behavior. Nobody is denying women of anything. There are just social consequences that are different for women

[@mateorome]

I thought i was a open minded man not shocked but anything but all this "sexual market value talk" is kinda disgusting and horrible.

[@pilosopher974]

@@mateorome Embrace that these are just models and not necessarily inherent truths, just like most branches of science are.

[@eidiazcas]

why is the word value in quotation marks?

[@keynesisaclown]

I am MGTOW. No extreme views here. Just call them as I see them. Life has been great over the past couple years since I adopted this philosophy. I couldn't be happier with women pushed to the periphery of my life. Great video! Thanks.

[@Macheako]

Amen bruh. WHO said we fucking have NO CHOICE in liking, or wanting to associate ourselves with females that have NOTHING to do with us? It was an unfair position thrust onto us as little boys. And it was wrong for them to do do. But we all know women NEED men for monetary gain....so I can't say it doesn't make any sense for why they teach us like that ;)

[@buckethead6008]

@Vert Trev Lol if incel going their own why you triggered? Does that what women want?

[@Will.Flavell]

If guys that claim they are MGTOW but complain about not getting laid are not MGTOW if you were truly going you own way you wouldn’t be bitching about women

[@punkkumies1283]

@Vert Trev there can be whiny MGTOWs,but there are also MGTOWs who are just independent men and dont need a woman.

[@gwho]

@wqzlfhegdvarxpisbumoctyj to walk entirely away from something obviously desirable and what your body tells you be is amazing, you'd have to think things through and have good reasons. Requisite to that is to get some deep understanding into the topic. Doing so isn't being obsessed. If you know the ins and outs of theology of flat Earth theory, and that's what enables you to conclusively argue against them and decide that they are not to be followed, are you obsessed with flat Earth or Christianity? No, you just did your homework.

[@Applepear893]

I really think that many women are just as interested in sex as men, but we are more cautious and less likely to take risks when it comes to sex

[@BalboaBaggins]

more cautious? lol

[@Applepear893]

Balboa Baggins because of pregnancy

[@rupeshkhode3244]

@@Applepear893 lmao

[@speedgnom]

Your statement is a joke. Explain the massive increase in single moms then. Cautious my ass.

[@superasper]

@@speedgnom many women think that they can get a man to “love” them and to stay with them through sex. Then they decide to throw in a pregnancy for good measure. But he has no intention to stay. He has been either actively hiding it or just not caring. End result: single moms

[@rejaneoliveira5019]

Very informative video! In my opinion, both SET and feminist theories can offer some good points but for the most part their ideas are quite extreme. Thank you Dr. Grande for the thorough research and clear explanation:)

[@nickidaisyreddwoodd5837]

Teal Swan made an excellent video regarding sexuality of women and that we need to feel completely safe and protected in order to be really relaxed and to get into the mood. Most women are terrified I see this everywhere and I see it in myself. We see what is happening world wide with male oppression and violence. I'm an animal rights activist and I get the cruelty reports sent to me daily so I became extremely paranoid and cautious in regards to trusting people in general and men in particular. We need to be made to feel safe I want all men to know that. Maybe that clears up some misunderstandings that many psychopaths have about women. I love your videos Dr. Grande. Science rocks. No to religion and ridiculous conspiracy groups.

[@twatmang1]

Judy Lee Our society is safer for women, and men, than at any time in our history. Food is abundant in large parts of the world. Rape is criminalised, and women are allowed the freedom to study, work, travel and enjoy the same rights men do. I don’t understand your position, you’re one of the most privileged, cosseted people on the planet in all history.

[@delneus]

@@twatmang1 your are correct, it's clear she won't engage with anyone in good faith

[@willnill7946]

So now women don’t like danger

[@youtubecommenter3956]

@@willnill7946 Must feel "safe" with betas, but hooking up with Chad the violent felon is exciting.

[@zetaone2669]

Dr. Grande, First and foremost thank you for what you do, the content that you put out is well thought out, articulate and easy to assimilate. My greatest take away from this video is when you suggest that everyone should read more. As an avid reader I could not agree with you more. Thank you!

[@OnsceneDC]

I especially liked your two messages at the end: 1.) engaging in scientific research is a constructive way to further one's cause; 2.) discussion and debates structured on research and what science has established is the most effective way of presenting a credible argument and maintaining the quality of discussion. Or at least that's how I interpreted them. I think there is a huge variable that was overlooked. I'm not sure if this is something not considered by the research, or in its presentation. However, geography plays a huge role in behavior and attitudes. We saw this play out in the 2016 elections. Sexual norms and activity is going to be very different in a large metropolitan city than perhaps in a more suburban or rural area, where norms are more traditional. From the research presented, it seemed to affirm more traditional values and perceptions of gender roles. I live in a metropolitan area that is liberal, diverse, intellectual, and has the highest proportion of women to men, and at least empirically after living here for many years, observed attitudes and behaviors that turn SET on its head. It's common for women to have had 20, 50, or even 100 partners (I believe the national average is 8, but please someone correct me if I'm wrong). Women have high-powered jobs, wealth, and are very independent. Women are better educated than men, although the area is considered the most well-educated area in the country. Hook-ups and "sexual deviancy" are commonplace and generally accepted. And women here DO pay for sex. If I were to drive even 50 or 100 miles away, I think I would not expect to see even remotely the same attitudes and behaviors. So I strongly believe that the locations of where the samples were taken for these studies may be skewed if not adequately controlled for geographic diversity.

[@blazefairchild465]

I agree , consider your metro area compared to Alaska where the ratio of men to women was something like 7:1. The studies are very interesting hopefully drawn from good well researched facts. Statistics are only good if they are compiled as to not skew in favor of one side .

[@OnsceneDC]

@@blazefairchild465 you're only as good as your data!

[@billboyd2009]

Please can you contextualise your 'women do pay for sex' comment. Do you mean prostitution or something else?

[@allannahk]

Sure, women do pay for sex... emotionally! Lol.

[@tearsofjoyforallthispain]

Rusty Shackleford, based off of what you just said, that would mean men don't need to pay crackheads for sex, yet they do according to you.

[@annzielinski1610]

The problem with surveys is that people tell you what they think they should say, not necessarily the truth.

[@prschuster]

The actual discussion starts at 4:15. When feminists bring in their social constructivist patriarchy theories, science flies out the window. Sexual Economics Theory does have some basis in biology, where males perform courtship rituals and females do the selecting, but love is more than just biology.

[@MrEssedis]

Of course love is more than biology, it's a fantasy.

[@thisisntallowed9560]

@@MrEssedis ha

[@OlivaSullen]

That's funny because romantic love is a social construct designed by the patriarchy to subjugate women just like marriage was. That's why it's a fantasy, because fantasy is deception, and deception is exploitation.

[@prschuster]

@@OlivaSullen You lost me at "social construct designed by the patriarchy to subjugate women". I can't even take that word salad seriously. How about marriage is a social construct designed by society to hold men accountable for financially supporting their family, while women bear the burden of pregnancy & child birth? So, am I subjugating women by falling in love with them?

[@rightnow5839]

👍🏻 Dr. Grande. I agree there is always bias on every side of any subject debates, because people can’t help but see the the filter of their own experience. 💗

[@sponish0]

Justin Tuet what’s that got to do with Mgtow or women though? Wars and prison are women’s fault ?

[@robertleitz5245]

@@sponish0 i wont say war is women's fault. However prison can and should be contributed not entirely on women, but pretty heavy. Divorce and living without a man or male role model in the home is rewarded. Since something like 90% of men and women in prison never had a father or father figure in the home growing up, is a huge factor. Until divorce is no longer rewarded or women, start having multiple kids from different men then thing wont change. Men are to blame as well. In saying that men have two factors in life that play a role in everything we are 1. Respect, 2. Sex. So saying that men are started to marry less today, because women are becoming easier to have sex with. Which creates major problems!!! The 2 major factors a woman brings to a relationship is respect and sex. So when a man will take any woman home, but that doesn't mean he will bring her home to meet momma. So if she is giving it away, then a logical thought process says don't buy it, if they are giving it away free. I hope that makes sense!!!

[@sponish0]

Robert Leitz so for arguments sake if all women were to disappear tomorrow from the earth, you saying men’s prison populations would all start decreasing? Completely bullshit dude various studies have shown the less women there are the higher crime is, areas where men outnumber women crimes tend to soar as it leaves a lot of men frustrated and turning to crime

[@justinthehead1993]

@@sponish0 actually women do put men in jail all the time over false allegations and violence by proxy. stop the shaming attempts and blame shifting and take some responsibility for the actions of your own gender. I'm no victim, I'm just stating the statistics and want a dialogue to open up and solve some of the issues. so many men are clueless to this reality until something happens and wakes them up or destroys there world.

[@justinthehead1993]

@@sponish0 show me a study that says this. its lack of fathers that increase male crime rate

[@NatAnnSch]

Had a very abusive father and then stepfather. My mother was divorced twice by the time I was thirteen. Decided marriage wasn't for me. Went to college, had a good career and retired in my early 50s. Felt great not to have to be dependent on a man to survive. No regrets. If more men were like the fine Doctor here, there wouldn't be so many issues between the genders.

[@gregorychandler8096]

One thing left out in the matter between men and women is age. ---- A man over the age of 40 tends to have a different standing than a woman in the same age group. ---- For example, in high school, a male wanted to be with a certain female, but the female shunned him. Several decades later, both the same male and the female are single, but the male seeks out younger females instead of the female that he used to desire. ---- There are also matters such as race and ethnicity. --- A man of a certain racial or ethnic group tends to have a different standing than a woman of the same racial or ethnic group. --- For example, there are studies that Asian women in the USA tend to attract many non-Asian men. The same attraction does not exist for Asian men with non-Asian women. For USA blacks, the situation is reversed between black men and black women with the black men being favored by non-black women. There are so many matters at play that it is difficult to arrive at acceptable conclusions on the topics discussed.

[@terrorists-are-among-us]

Yuck. Desperate old guys chasing children. Disgusting 🤮

[@NK-qw5vt]

If your first example had married, they'd be divorced by now. Men of any age are attracted to 20yo, while women are roughly to their own age to 2-4yrs older (not much older typically though). So you'll end up with a) unhappy marriage, cheating, wife being a abused for getting older b) if they can, they'll just get a new 20yo every 10y or so, c) angry frustrated single or incel

[@epicmercury333]

This was brilliant and thought provoking examination of a complex topic. I concur, more research needs to be done. 👍

[@ellenfalls1330]

Dude, you are the man. I haven't had time to listen to this one yet, but you are getting into territory here that I find very interesting. '70s feminism seems to have become "the enemy" on some fronts today, and I'm fascinated to find out why/how.

[@jasonfields7058]

Because.....its about power now instead of actual equality? Women have since got equal rights and more so extra rights over men to the point of corruption. Now ignoring that. Since the "revolution" already occurred, the more vocal of the gender and its icons and deep thinkers have become extreme and imbalanced in their attempt to legitimize their relevance and thus its continued funding but regurgitating the narrative.

[@parrotshootist3004]

Since 60s feminism was eugenics wave.. Margaret Sanger? Saying that its surprising how many prominent feminists through time, are directly, or indirectly are associated with eugenics.

[@parrotshootist3004]

@colton renker No I mean eugenics. Tools can be whatever they like, as long as the aims are achieved through those tools.

[@parrotshootist3004]

@colton renker If you twist eugenics to fit what hamsters do, sure.

[@parrotshootist3004]

@colton renker Odd, I was talking about you. You twisted the word, 'eugenics', to mean ordinary mating/pair bonding.

[@racheljordan5450]

Hi Dr. Grande! Love your video as always, but I must point out that the study on the college campus with the confederates is so flawed that it mayaswell be considered redundant. Consider you're a woman who is approached by a man you have never met who claims to have noticed you and wants you to go back to his room. This study is not measuring how women feel about casual sex, but more so whether or not that woman wishes to get murdered (slightly exaggerated, but you get my meaning). There's been a lot of follow up studies trying to control the elements of danger, stigma, and shame, and while there is still definitely a difference, it is much much smaller than what the original study suggests.

[@racheljordan5450]

And I just got to the bit where you mention this 😂 I think another important thing to remember is that hetero sex for women is not as pleasurable for women as it is for men. There is a very large orgasm gap (which practically disappears when considering lesbian couples) which might explain part of why women are less excited about sex. There's also the way the sex has been influenced by pornography, women can begin to feel like dolls being used for pleasure as opposed to contributing sexual partners. These micro aggressions need to be remembered when talking about how women feel about sex, because it's not as simple as asking women and men "how often do you want sex?" We need to consider the social/cultural AND biological factors that influence this answer

[@Howitchewstofeel5gum]

@@racheljordan5450 "hetero sex for women is not as pleasurable for women as it is for men" Do you have some data on this? I totally get where you're coming from, I'd just like to offer some male perspective here. I think the statement above is very simplistic and over-generalizing, for example, I would think that it applies much more to younger women who don't know their own bodies and sexual needs as well yet and have more trouble communicating those to their partners (especially casual ones) as opposed to more experienced women who know what they want and need and have no trouble asking for it. Most young women and men simply don't know that the MAJORITY of women cannot orgasm by vaginal stimulation alone. As a result, the women feel like something is wrong with them and the men feel like they're doing something wrong or like they simply don't measure up. Education is key here. I would also like to add, that while a man's orgasm is seemingly more of a guarantee, that doesn't necessarily mean that sex is overall more pleasurable for men than for women. For example, it's offset by the fact that women can have multiple orgasms and they don't have a refractory period in between. There are women that can have 10 orgasms right in a row, the same cannot be said for men. Also, the way up to orgasm might not be as pleasurable as you think for a man because he might be busy "holding it together" and actually forcefully thinking of unerotic stuff because he is trying to last as long as possible, trying to pleasure the woman, which he considers his job. Our erotic pleasure and, if we like it or not, our ego is very bound up in the pleasure of our sexual partner. So in a situation like described above, where the woman is never going to reach climax by regular intercourse, but doesn't know that, or has trouble additionally stimulating herself or asking for it, the man's pleasure is severely reduced as well. The cultural expectations for men can also severely hinder their sexual pleasure, like not being able to fully access and feel your emotions because you were raised to be a strong, tough man. And Porn also objectifies men, not just women. I mean, what matters about the men in porn? Muscular, huge dick, lasts long. That's about it. Again, I'm not trying to belittle the issues that women experience in this regard or paint this as a "women against men" type of thing. I'm just saying that men face issues as well. But you're totally right. When citing studies, one needs to look at how that study was conducted and if the method is actually valid, that is, measuring what it was intended to.

[@bademoxy]

RJ-the sexual revolution and promiscuity have cheapened women and men and their relationships ,which i suspect is a significant factor in current lack of satisfaction for modern women while making men even more disposable .

[@dariabusek3566]

>>whether or not that woman wishes to get murdered

[@samueldawkins]

"microagressions" opinion discarded

[@manuag3886]

Great video. Glad that you have a well reasoned approach, and that you stay away from sensationalist argumentation.

[@Duttyyy]

Even if we ignore the facts that men are much less likely to be victims of physical or sexual abuse and the whole one egg, nine month pregnancy, versus unlimited amount of semen aspect, I think the campus study would have wildly different results in different countries/cultures. Countries that have stronger social service infrastructures and equality between the sexes, where women are less dependent on men for support during pregnancy and after childbirth and less likely to be shamed for having a one night stand, are more likely to accept an offer from an attractive male. And sure, we can model human sexuality in many different ways, but a model, even a good one, is just that, a model. I would suspect that different models would be found most descriptive of sexual interactions between people, depending on location, age and economical status of participants.

[@brk932]

You have higher sexual power but also higher responsibility. One night stands pose a lot more danger to a woman. Shaming is logical because a woman's mistake can lead to another human being. Raising a child is VERY expensive. Single motherhood is far from optimal and a lot of studies show that children from such background are more likely to grow up criminals. Should the social system carry the burden? Aren't half of taxpayers men? You can't have your cake and eat it too. We depend on each other. A woman can choose to have a child and a man not really. A man has no rights when in comes to becoming a parent only responsibility when it happens. Women find 80% of men unattractive. How do think the average man feels when he has to jump to through hoops? Or get's called a creep when he starts a conversation with a woman? Those kind of differences between the genders exist almost in every modern country and are bigger than the social system! "Even if we ignore the facts that men are much less likely to be victims of physical ... abuse" Ever heard of proxy violence? Battered husband Syndrome?

[@LuisCarruthers]

I'm glad I came across this. I am a straight male and am unsuccessful with women. When I typed in "Heterosexual Female Sexuality" in the search bar the results were all videos from LGBT, blue-haired women with titles like "10 signs you're a lesbian" and "compulsory heterosexuality". A pretty revealing insight into the ideology that informs KZbin's algorithm.

[@Laura-gd4ku]

Considering that heterosexuality is the norm and is usally not specifically mentioned it makes sense that only homoxexuals are popping up in the results because they usally mention the word heterosexuality in contrast to their own sexuality. If you type in female sexuality you will find results about mostly heterosexual females. Its the same with typing in "white doctor" in google images and getting mostly results of black doctors, but typing in "doctor" gets you mostly white doctors. Its really not that difficult to understand.

[@Dawnseeker2000]

Dr. Grande, would you please consider doing a video on the effects of stalking, with a focus on how each personality disorder might influence the target/victim's response. Thank you, as always!

[@vickils9571]

If you do one on stalking can you include proxy stalking/mobbing/street theater, etc. This is perhaps one of the less understood and threatening forms of stalking, that relies on an organized group of people to perpetrate the stalking. Additionally, one is usually primed prior to the stalking exposure.

[@lisasmith516]

I HAVE BEEN THROUGH MOST IF NOT EVERY ONE OF THESE. UGH YES, Please DO THIS! It is VITAL!

[@lisasmith516]

I could come off as mentally challenged just recounting actual attacks on my person. Some of us, it seems, ARE FATED TO BE HATED. It SUCKS. I want it to stop. I am learning NOT TO TRUST, AND "BOUNDARIES."

[@lisasmith516]

@@brusselsprout5851 I get where you're coming from, I really do cuz they do have a problem or they wouldn't be doing that to another person. But, something about me invites them oh, I have a vulnerability that they see...that I don't recognize...btw I often in the past recommended a book to others called "The Gift of Fear," by Gavin de Becker AND His " Mosaic Threat Assessment Test." That TEST SAVED ME FROM PSYCHOPATHIC MURDER BY #2 HUSBAND. He had LIFE INS. JACKED UP. I CALLED HIM OUT! CALLED WORK, CALLED COPS, WIPED GUNS AND HID THEM SO HE COULDN'T "ACCIDENTALLY " HURT Me...SO, THERE NOW I GUESS I SOUND "CRAZY." WHATEVER... I'M POOR, BUT I SURVIVED. THAT TEST DELIVERED TO MY DIVORCE ATTORNEY TURNED MY DIVORCE CASE INTO A "SETTLEMENT/AGREED DIVORCE.." (I'M PARALEGAL TRAINED AND USED TO HELP FOLKS, AND DID ALSO MOSTLY FAMILY BUSINESS, TAX LAW).

[@lisasmith516]

@colton renker Alpha men do not EXIST except RARELY in a cultured "SOCIETY." But in relatively primitive or EXTREMELY RESTRICTED OR WARMONGERING SOCIETIES? YES. EVEN THEN ALMOST ALL MEN FALL IN TO SUB MALE HELPER/ LT. ROLES (AND REMEMBER, ALL FLESH is subordinate to genetics, cultural/ physical, natural environment and personal decisions or LACK OF AGENCY.) MGTOW IS UNIMPORTANT TO OUR BIG BLUE MARBLE AND NATURE WHICH RULES IT. I THINK (HA) THAT your ALLEGED "ALPHAS"HAVEN'T MET THE MODERN "TECHNOLOGICAL" EQUIVALENT OF TRUE ALPHA MALES i.e., ATTILA THE HUN, STALIN, PUTIN, GENGHIS KHAN, HITLER, IDI AMIN, SADDAM HUSSEIN, POL POT, ETC. (Which actually NOWADAYS, COULD BE SOME LITTLE WORM OF A COMPUTER/HACKING BIOWEAPONEERING TECH NERD!) SUDDENLY SELF ACTUALIZED AND EQUIPPED WITH THE KEYS OF NUCLEAR/BIOLOGICAL/ CHEMICAL POWER( Male/Female) AS FAR AS ALPHA MALES GO,.I CAN'T NAME ANY GENTLE ONES, IT IS NOT A VALUED ALPHA TRAIT. SO, WHEN I hear someone squeaking about Feminazis, I really consider it just agitated men who are judging themselves erroneously as poor victims of EVIL WOMANHOOD! WHICH EXCUSES THEIR IMPOTENCE AND FAILINGS IN THE WORLD. Just dumb CRYBaby rhetoric. Go WATCH DEBORRAH COOPER VIDEOS, AND CARP THERE. SHE IS YOUR TRUE FEMINAZI NIGHTMARE, AN APOCALYPTIC VISION. A REAL VIRAGO OF VEHEMENT DISPUTE OF MGTOW'S RIDICULOUS CLAIMS... I'D LOVE IT IF DR GRANDE FOUND HER AND WENT ON HER SHOW! SHE'S A TOUGH ONE,! LOL?!? I have brought up TWO Good SONS and ONE Good DAUGHTER. I am past 60. I like men, I really appreciate them, and I wish there was more kindness going both ways, but the ugly whiners, who think they DESERVE MY ATTENTION? THE UNHAPPY or the PREDATORS OR ALL OF THE ABOVE? THEY can go JUMP! IN FACT, this past Sunday, I was working an open air market and a Arabic/Lebanese Americanized foreigner tried touching me PERSONALLY and after MY CORRECTION, tried lying and stealing as he was trying to buy my items and also cheat by hiding an item as we transacted the sale. "I told him your culture requires you keep your hands off women and also non relatives anywhere in public!" He argued, I said "you touch me again I will kick you across this market!" He said "you have eyes like a TIGER. I'll not touch you, no more....blah blah, blah!" And He put hands up jumped back...YUCK CREEP! (HA!) OK, SO THERE YOU HAVE IT! PREDATORY ARABIC MASHER GETS CHECKED BY SOLO CHRISTIAN WOMAN! MGTOW? THANKS, PUH-LEEEZI WANT HIM THERE!!! GO, MGTOW-GO! BTW, I CHECKED AN OLD MAN, HISPANIC AMERICANIZED MEXICAN MASHER 2 WEEKS BEFORE, SAME MARKET. P.S. Look for my BOOKS COMING SOON! NOT!

[@paulmyers5017]

Finally discovered something worth hearing on the topic, very good channel and video, it's important to maintain a helicopter view on these issues.

[@TheGodlessGuitarist]

Based on what I heard in this video only, SET sounds to me about as mature in relation to understanding human behaviour as Ptolemy's cosmology is to understanding the cosmos. The transactional nature of this theory seems to be at best a grotesque oversimplification of dynamics of human interactions, and the studies that supposedly lend support to it seem appallingly weak. E.g. In this study of male vs female offer of sex the same evening, how do you control for attractiveness, a highy subjective quality that is very dependent on the eye and mood of the beholder, not to mention the circumstances and manner in which the question is posed, and has different dimensions including appearance, personality, smell, sound? Unless you do a large study with lots of different participants on both sides of the offer, there doesn't seem to be much chance ofcontrolling or averaging out such variables. Any one can come with a 'theory', the question is whether the theory is any good at predicting reality under a reasonable exposure to a variety of input conditions.

[@orchidisle1]

I love the variety of topics within the field of psychology that you do videos on!

[@CharlotEYUT]

I’ve been fascinated by statistics and this subject presents interesting areas to explore in that matter. Great presentation Dr Grande!

[@craigbenz4835]

Just as physics has no Grand Unified Theory to explain all observed phenomenon, psychiatry has no equivalent theory to explain all human behavior. Undoubtedly SET explains some behavior, but also not all. If we've learn nothing else here we've learned that not all human respond to a set of circumstances in the same way. For the time being a theory should be happy if it explains something many people do, and not try to force an explanation of everything.

[@kswannie]

Wise comment. As Dr Grande pointed out, it's a theory, not experimental. A theory can have explanatory value, but if it's not testable, it's not science and we can't call it factual.

[@ashleigh3021]

Behavioural genetics and economics explain all human behaviour.

[@DavenH]

@@kswannie You're hearing a different definition of theory. Scientific theory and experiment are not dichotomous.

[@MichaelDHockenberry]

Conceptualization is important. I have learned after reading your statement you didn’t pay attention.

[@MichaelDHockenberry]

@@ashleigh3021 I knew you were a robot.

[@hebaalkilani3229]

I wish you would go back to content like this Dr. Grande

[@katkat5020]

I don't think any study can be done on this without asking both side about their sense of safety and potential abuse in past experiences. Men are also less careful about stds, they know way less about them, see their genital related doctors only when they are sick and they transmit more diseases than they actually suffer from. The amount of health and emotional related risks of going to be with a stranger is absolutely not even. Not even mentioning the amount of time and effort both genders put in their hygiene and appearences.

[@norafeher8260]

Hm what about taking into account the numerous reasons women reject sex more than men: 1. Safety, mentioned in the other comments 2. Women and men are taught in sex ed and through the media that sex is primarily about male pleasure, and should cater to that and ignore what might be pleasurable to women, resulting in 3. Lots of women think they don't like sex because they never had good sex, and 4. Lots of men put in 0 effort to please their female partners in bed, so... The motivation for women to want to have casual sex is much lower. Not to mention slut-shaming. SET is in herently sexist, as it says, as you so eloquently stated, that sex is a market item, valuable to men (to get it from women), but not the other way around. As a psychologist, do you really believe it would ever be healthy for two people to have sex when only one of those two people is into it? Do you really, in the depth of your heart believe this could happen without it being incredibly unhealthy?

[@nathanwilliams5290]

So performance anxiety that men experience isn’t a thing.

[@dithaingampanmei]

Nope. SET isn't inherently sexist. It deals with a certain set of conditions, which produce a set of results. You can literally reverse the conditions and women would become the buyers and the men would be the sellers. Once again. I'll spell it out for you: a theory Can't be sexist. People are sexist. What a theory can be, is wrong. But then you'd have to the leg work if you wanna prove SET wrong, right? I personally am not satisfied with SET as the Doctor presented in the video. It needs more variables and more work. But I'm not standing here calling social constructivism a sexist ideology, am I?

[@stanzaschulz4339]

he isn't a psychologist and probably wont answer you ever unless u compliment him in some way. That being said I really do enjoy his videos no matter how much I disagree with him.

[@theboyisnotright6312]

Gosh, bet your a lot of fun at parties😂😂😂😂. Lighten up 😜

[@randyandretti]

I always noticed how love between two people was a factor missing. Proponents of that theory must not believe love can exist. Too bad for them.

[@randyandretti]

NeillCrosskie - I know a lot of people married and in love - most are in their 50s and up.

[@Ds4u2]

@@randyandretti Love is a word that has as many meanings as there are people, some people argue that you can only say that you love someone if you've been married for at least 20 years with them, some say that its love when you've been together for 3 months and the guy offers you a cheeseburger. Get real Randy, love is a concept. Its not something you can measure and "prove" even though women want their men to "prove" their love by giving the women something, usually something of materialistic value like jewellery. Its all BS.

[@randyandretti]

Lucas Starseed - You are nuts. I’m a woman.

[@minaharker6641]

Omg 😱 I love your channel Randy! ❤

[@randyandretti]

Mina Harker - Hi Mina. Thank you. 🤗

[@clemdane]

There are also people who want love and affection and a life companion

[@ruckerrc6982]

agreed....and the men in those relations 9/10 times want sex on a regular basis.

[@stevenvandiver4193]

That doesn't exist

[@hasanthegoatlover6299]

Cope

[@dariabusek3566]

>>There are also people who want love and affection and a life companion

[@annlvselvis972]

I have never heard of SET before so thank you for educating me. I prefer the delusion of romance, after all bartering is vulgar.

[@terrorists-are-among-us]

Yes, males are quite vulgar. They chase children because women are scaaaaaary 😂 "she's not hot anymore". Says a broke guy with moobs 🤡

[@ananimity7332]

Thank you Dr. Grande...I've not heard of this before. I'll watch your video again as I am constantly learning from you

[@AntonSlavik]

Thing about the "falling in love" thing is that there are millions of people out there (women in your and my cases) that you're astronomically unlikely to fall in love with because they exist in exclusive social realms. There are assumptions and preconceptions you both have about each other that make it so you wouldn't even be able to have a conversation or view each other as attractive, long enough that you'd fall in love. The Incels and MGTOW rightly complain about this marketplace because they're effectively barred from falling in love due to finances or physical assets/appearance

[@hayvebromier2158]

@@M_SC It's easy to just say stuff. It's harder present actual arguments that can persuade people who don't already agree with you.Take this (just as one example): www.washingtonpost.com/business/2019/03/29/share-americans-not-having-sex-has-reached-record-high/ Yeah, the study may not be perfect, it may be subject to the biases outlined in this video, etc. But at least it's _something._ Can you provide _anything_ (other than words out of your own mouth) that has come out in the past 30 years that shows even mildly opposing results? And no, given that you completely disregard the lived experience of these guys, examples from your own life/experience don't count either. At the end of the day, no one wants to admit they're benefitting from an unfair system. Why? I think it's because people (consciously or subconsciously) assume that nothing lasts forever and that when the pendulum swings the other way, it could very well be them that gets the short of the deal. But remember, denial isn't going to stop that pendulum from swinging. It's physics. Simple as that.

[@baileymoran8585]

For a lot of them, it’s purely attitude. Most people, regardless of gender or sexuality, see certain personality traits as a turn off. Examples would be ‘clingy,’ ‘entitled,’ ‘lazy,’ ‘manipulative,’ etc. Loudly associating yourself with a group known for hygiene issues, and blowing up at women for already having a partner/simply not wanting to date the man asking, obsessive behavior and desperation, ‘lay down and rot’ and/or ‘no showering’ contests, etc. is not going to make you an appealing option. As a woman I can confirm that I have yet to see or encounter an incel in the real world, who was not undesirable based off of their personal character.

[@blowitoutyourcunt7675]

Whether it be now or 5000 yrs ago, this would still be true though.... they whine as if this is a new problem men are dealing with! The same could be argued with women. They've been told who they would marry for thousands of yrs by their fathers and bettors with no choice.

[@youtubecommenter3956]

@@hayvebromier2158 What the "pendulum swinging" is a euphemism. Many systems change and don't necessarily empower those disempowered by that system. That you would insist such a dynamic is "physics" shows how blinded you are by your exaggerated sense of intelligence.

[@JuanRodriguez-tr6st]

The economical theory plus behavioral biology seems to make sense to me. Going to read more empirical research on this 👍

[@EmperorsNewWardrobe]

Juan Rodriguez did you have any luck finding evidence? I can’t affordably access the original SET paper but really want to find verification of the theory!

[@tarrenhunt]

Greatly appreciated once again Dr. Grande. I couldn’t agree more.

[@wimplo226]

Love to see the positivity in the channel compared to other channels that talked about the feminist theory. Some of those women and men are really brave for speaking out due to the death threats they receive. Many seem to get threats of r@pe which I don’t understand why some men even say that. Like I have never heard that from the opposing side. I could never imagine a feminist/ gender equality activists stoop so low to even threaten r@pe on those guys saying that stuff. It really shows the persons character on both side on how they handle the situations.

[@dithaingampanmei]

Well, I've seen a few on the feminist side saying they'd be happy if the man dropped dead. There's always an extremist. I don't think those few men threatening r@pe really want to do it. They just say it because it gets to women. It really brings it into perspective. And looking at it this way removes all the fear, too.

[@darcysmith2820]

Im a woman but i personally lean more towards SET, I don’t think it’s inherently sexist in nature but people def have coopted it to be used for sexist purposes

[@wl415]

Agreed. Ironically, it’s very accurate in describing patriarchy within our very own system and feminist theory could actually benefit from discussing SET more thoroughly. My issue with these studies is they don’t really talk about the root of the problem. They both seem to critique the main issues with a society the focuses solely on profit and how that can manipulate human societal behaviours and our society as a whole. Just my take on this.

[@flabbyhoy]

Fantastic video, as always - very helpful for me in keeping a balanced approach to this topic.

[@mahatmagandhi7588]

I wish that when you mentioned the campus study on men and women agreeing to sex that night, you mentioned why 75% of men agreed, or what reason they gave, and what reason women gave for saying no. You touched on it a little bit but I would like to learn more.

[@parkviewmo]

@Wild Bird Well said!

[@willnill7946]

Wild Bird child support for 18 years, false rape allegations?

[@nathanwilliams5290]

If you’re an average looking guy and a woman walks up and propositions you , it’ s probably a sting operation or a sociology study.

[@TheDweeb002]

I got nothing out out of this video and judging by the comments, neither did anyone else

[@vaughanstarr3725]

11:00 - I agree. While a guy making six figures will date the young, hot check out girl, how often would a woman making bank do the same? Toy boys exist, but not nearly to the same degree.

[@jackstratif6937]

I saw a convincing study that entirely eliminated the differences between men and women’s interest for casual sex that was seen in the Clarke and Hatfield studies. What the researchers did was have men and women select each other on a dating site, and then offer them the option for casual sex. 50 percent of men and women agreed to it

[@chocolatesugar4434]

The shortage of men in black communities due to mass incarceration is a major contributing factor of black women being more aggressive. A lot of black women are defensive, protective and fiercely independent (which are usually masculine traits) and often had an absent father. A lot of black women grow up knowing there is no such thing as a Knight in shining armour and if anyone is going to protect them it will be themselves. I know its slightly off topic but I feel its necessary to point out that these studies explain a great divide in black relationships, especially as MGTOW has a large black male following. Love that Dr Grande have 'liked/loved' every other comment but this one lol...its golden smh

[@lisasmith516]

Dear Ms, I suggest Deborrrah Cooper here on KZbin. She is ALL about her people. I'm not her target ethnic, but find her (like Todd Grande) compelling. I must add a warning though, she is DIRECT, CRITICAL AND A "CUSSBOX." I appreciate her insightful discussions nevertheless. I'm a Christian. She is VERY ATHEIST.

[@chocolatesugar4434]

@@lisasmith516 thanks, that's really kind of you! I'll check her out! :)

[@lisasmith516]

@@chocolatesugar4434 I would have answered sooner, but I have THE POOR PEOPLE'S CELL SVC! LOLS 😋

[@symbolsforliving2277]

@Gray Kin its really more of a economical class issue.

[@PinballBob1]

The reason for the bias in these kinds of studies is simple. Just like in the IQ controversy, people do NOT want to know the truth if it conflicts with their own viewpoint. Researchers in these fields find what they are looking for. Some individuals can look at counterarguments & change their minds, but it is rare. There is too much social pressure to BELIEVE, & not to make a rational decision based on observable reality. Belief is reassuring, doubt in one's knowledge is deeply disturbing.

[@mgtowvalues]

The maximization of outcomes is a modern approach and this is not necessary in SET, only that the buyer (and seller) are basically satisfied, not maximally satisfied. Thus we do not need to introduce a ultilitarian framework. It is a time/risk based maximization - where information asymmetry reasonably discounts any high probability of maximizing. The consideration in past dealings is based on the deep acceptance that women are the gatekeepers of sex, while men are the gatekeepers of marriage. Sex outside of marriage had been forbidden as children (and dependent mothers) without an active breadwinner was a big negative to a community. The sexual exchange had been regulated by reality: nunneries and monasteries were always an option. Notice that "is" and "was" become central. "The woman is looking for one optimal mate." This is incorrect today. In the past yes, but today, women do not care for one optimal, only a suitable for now. Men on backburners or training marriages for women to gain resources and monkey branch. Sorry, at 10:45, men do what to keep the price of sex low. Men are not looking for sex, they are looking to find meaning. If the community demands men get married then we have this song and dance - but Augustus Caesar recognized that men do not wish this, leaving Augustus to encourage this with enticement and admonishment. No, women with resources does not raise the price - men's desire for a woman is, normally, asset inelastic as men were and are the economic engines. Men's have the double standard because what man wishes to work and pay for another man's child. "Makes it harder to find the truth"... No. Look at the world and you will see the truth. Women do not use prostitutes, and the 75% versus 0% just supports this. Any who would argue against the effect of these two finding together are failing to look at reality. As to gender equality, show this in the world; then I may think there is truth in it.

[@mlester3001]

In my view sexual economic theory is sexual theory from a male point of view, while feminist sex theory is sex from a female point of view. It is the blind men and the elephant phenomena, each perceiving the issue from a different perspective and focusing the the aspects most important to their own gender. From where I sit both perspectives are correct and what is required to move the discussion forward is an elegant synthesis of both points of view.

[@Tnicole01]

@Siyovaxsh En-sipad-zid-ana what’s anti science about it?

[@edvh88]

Thanks for covering this, really fascinating. I strongly agree with the feminist theory point that women have desire for sex too, and that there is worth to male sex. I’d love to hear more about how sex drives are portrayed in western culture, vs the full range of asexual to hyper sexual people of all genders.

[@jeice13]

I have seen a study comparing masturbation frequency between men and women and women were roughly on par with dudes 20 years or so older than them for frequency. Just because both side have interest doesnt mean it is equal

[@user-rx4jg8lq7h]

@@jeice13 Which is also not what she claimed. She said "have desire too", not "have equal desire" and "there is worth", not "there is equal worth". So you are trying to refute a point that was never made. The point was that reality seems to align more with the feminist theory point in that women do have some desire for sex and male sex does have some worth, whereas SET poses that there is no worth in male sex and women do not desire sex.

[@beepbopboop7727]

If I had a robot that I could programme, robot-boy would be worn out haha.

[@EbonyPope]

@@beepbopboop7727 If even a robot won't survive you I pity the men that you get into your bed.

[@beepbopboop7727]

@@EbonyPope I wouldnt need a man to get into my bed ... because I would have a robot.

[@lastone3926]

Every time I watch one of your videos I listen and I can't stop seeing the parallels in between life and what you say its fascinating and your videos help me analyze myself as well as others but I'm the only person that can help myself so looking at myself helps and your words help break that down

[@Crapcarp555]

The problem with your conclusion here is the fact that academia and science as practices are biased towards Feminism. As a result, they're incredibly hostile towards non-feminist and anti-feminist theories and beliefs. Sure, the fundamental principles of academia and science demand neutrality and seek to eliminate bias as much as possible, but those principles are meaningless if they're not applied to particular subjects. So it's kinda hard to see science as neutral when all the scientists are condemning you as a misogynist and the ones that aren't are either not speaking up or getting ostracized when they do speak up.

[@wl415]

Lmao do you live under a rock? When have these practices start favouring feminism? Lmao wrong planet buddy.

[@Crapcarp555]

@@wl415 And yet, the majority of university professors are feminists or at least uphold feminist ideals, academic platforms normally don't host positions critical of Feminism or if they do such positions are outweighed by the feminist position (a single non-feminist against two or more feminists on the same panel, for example), and non-feminist events often get cancelled due to complaints; just to name a few examples. None of this ever happens to feminists in any capacity. Clearly, it's not me that's on the wrong planet.

[@valor36az]

Best part of the video is the advice at the end, an excellent philosophy for life in general.

[@elisamastromarino7123]

This was so interesting that I watched it twice. It amazes me that men and women *_ever_* get together. We have very little in common. It seems a shame that we can't just celebrate our differences even if in a platonic way. After all, each gender has tremendous value. I promise I will read more about SET. 😊 I had never heard of it, but I certainly have heard of MGTOW and have also read about it. I find it silly. If men want to stay single, they should. I don't see a need for a reverse feminism "philosophy" regarding that stance. In fact, I think it's just gender bashing when the simplest answer is to just stay single. But I do wonder if members will eventually burn their boxer shorts. 😄 Thank you, Dr Grande. 🌹👍

[@johnmilius3031]

You women only notice and hook up with 20% of guys simply because they look handsome and ignore the rest. Women need men as a utility and men just want love. That's why we mostly end up together.

[@RaelDanger]

@@johnmilius3031 If you strip it down and think about it in terms of how we survived back when we were living in caves. Men have a longer breeding age and can father more offspring since they can ejaculate find another mate ejaculate again, so on so forth. It would make evolutionary sense they would seek out many willing mates. Women are fertile for a much shorter time and can only produce offspring once every 9 months and also vary in how quickly they can reproduce again after birth. So evolutionarily speaking it would make sense women are more selective about their mates. A more symmetrical face which is linked with attractiveness is also linked to good health, good health is linked to good genes. It would make sense for women to try to mate more with men showing good health indicators to try and ensure viable, healthy offspring. If women breed with any man regardless of health indicators there would be more unviable offspring. So more miscarriages, still births, infant deaths. If we take into account a lack of modern medicine there's more risk to the mother's life as death durning child birth would be very common. Unfortunately, for people who don't have good health indicators the evolutionary instinct to find the best mate is and probably always will be present.

[@marygard4608]

Dr. Grande's subjects are fascinating.

[@bekd4550]

I think something that could really help to discuss with this theory is talking a bit more about sociology and social construction. I think SET can describe some sexual dynamics well, but not because of anything (or very many things) inherent or biological (which seems like an important assumption for incels and probably most in the MGTOW community) . As a sociologist, I could see how a lot of what you described about SET playing out, but because of social dynamics and beliefs that are spread. I think that acknowledging social construction or sociology as a whole is where you get the sight overlap in feminist theory and SET. One example of how this can be unpacked when you consider sociology would be looking at the way that (cisgender, heterosexual) men are seen as valuing sex.If we consider the way that they are socialized, they’re told from a young age that they should value being with a woman. I won’t go into details here - there are plenty of readings on how people are socialized in regards to sex. But, if they are told that they need to value sex and if they are told that women are the only way to get this, then it would make sense that this is how they would behave. Even if it’s not something they necessarily want, sex that they get is also treated as having social value in their peer circles (and/or the value that they put on it for themselves may not be inherently about wanting sex all the time, but instead about self worth since they’ve been conditioned to see it as something a “real man” achieves). This says something very different about people than if we were to assume that these sexual behaviors were a response to an inherent need or want for sex. Similar social factors could influence women’s behavior as well. TLDR This apparent sex-seeking behavior could be 1) a response to socialization and 2) a need for sex or social acceptance - not a sexual desire

[@bekd4550]

​@Torie Beck I'm not very well versed in evolutionary biology. I do have some education in psychology (though not nearly as much as sociology. I have an MA in sociology, while I only minored in psychology during my undergrad - so other more educated folks probably have more to say). While some people argue about sociology vs psychology as some sort of dichotomy, but really they both bring in certain perspectives that are important (and even overlap. My thesis included a lot of social psychology, despite it being technically in the department of sociology. But I also think that certain biological components - which I do not have a lot of expertise on - can interact with the social). All of this is way too long of a wall of text, but I'm prone to babbling, so hopefully this addresses some of what you were wondering about. I wasn't sure if you had more specific questions. In general, your experiences are going to impact your brain, especially as children. As people do certain tasks over and over again, the synapses in the brain get stronger, so in that way, the environment can impact the biological (again, I'm not a biologist or psychologist so this is just from a collection of various undergrad psych classes, papers I've read in passing, and things like these youtube videos - so there are far better sources for learning the specifics of how the biological portion actually works). Because of this connection between the biological and social, it is really important that we consider both when talking about human behavior. And it is why people should be careful when they assume that biological means inherent or unchangable. Trauma is more complicated. It's something I've read more about partly because it impacts me personally, but it's absolutely an area that needs more study (and more discussion about in accessible places, such as this). I am not well-versed in the biological/mental processes behind trauma (at least not to the degree that I could trust myself to concisely and accurately summarize such a complex topic), but I am aware of different things that can happen (flashbacks, dissociation, "memories" that your body retains even when you can't recall them consciously). I do not feel confident in saying with confidence how permanent these changes are - so much related to mental health and trauma can be very dependent on the individual experiencing it. Plus certain things that impact behavior are symptoms that are not always present. There is also a lot to be said about the stigma that comes from someone who has endured a traumatic event and/or who have mental health symptoms related to trauma. This perceived (or actual) stigma will likely impact people's behaviors as well. So, it's not just the event that triggers anything mental, nor is it a biological change (temporary or permanent), but how people react both personally and how wide understanding can impact how a large portion of people react to traumatized people. And to be honest, if you are someone trying to process and deal with the trauma, it is probably healthier to focus on how treatment will help because regardless of the processes or anything like that, knowing that you can get better and that the people involved in your trauma do not control you is important. Or at least it was for me. The bottom line is that trauma responses are your body trying to protect you. They're frustrating and scary, but understanding that your body is trying to keep you safe. Understanding that made it much more easier for me to feel less negatively towards myself. In my field of study, I would like to learn more about group trauma. It seems like in the field of epigenetics, there may be some aspects of trauma that are passed down to the next generation - on top of behaviors that are impacting people that get passed down through the nurture component. But there is also abuse and bullying from the world at large that can contribute to trauma. This includes hate crimes, but also things like oppressive norms, language, and microagressions. I could go on about this more, but I am not sure it is necessarily what you are looking for (though it is more within my area of study which I have really read and thought more about since stigma is something that has been an important area for me, as someone who researches with the LGBT community - and I have actually done a project looking at trans people who experience trauma. And social aspects can have a huge impact on if they seek treatment, how helpful it is, etc. So there's another are to consider how sociology can be relevant when discussing trauma). If you have other questions or need clarification, please ask. I was absolutely everywhere with this post. But at this point if I cut any of it down, I'll end up deleting it because that's how my anxiety brain works.

[@almcdonald8676]

I’ve only just encountered Dr Grande but I’m impressed by the range of topics he’s prepared to cover. I’ve not come across SET before but if the opposition is feminist theory, which can be discounted from the outset as lacking any consilience with more fundamental science, then it might be worth checking out

[@zippy_uk1046]

To be fair to MGTOW, they have introduced scientific concepts to men (though maybe not all aspects and perspectives) and DO NOT advocate anger against women, rather against GYNOCENTRISIM. Of course, many come to MGTOW looking for answers and do so out of a negative personal experience. The aspect you get wrong about MGTOW needing to be more scientific is that MGTOW (Like feminism) are social political perspectives (the personal is political) and as such have no scientific answer.

[@RanEncounter]

Feminism has actually intruded the social sciences with critical theory and intersectionality. They claim that the scientific method and critical thinking is a white male tool of oppression. You can look up these papers through out the social sciences. They are insane in my opinion and have nothing to do with science.

[@zippy_uk1046]

@@RanEncounter Even left wing scientists despair at post modernism and feminist critique - e.g Richard Dawkins. This despite calling himself a feminist. Look on KZbin for his famous rant at Newtons Pricipia being declared a "rape manual"... 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

[@RanEncounter]

@@zippy_uk1046 Oh it gets much worse. Autographies are passed on as scientific papers in gender studies, black history, white history and all other grienvance studies. No scientific method applied and they are peer reviewed! Ridiculous.

[@zippy_uk1046]

@@RanEncounter Thruthophobia from the university department of "indoctrokashon"... 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

[@Kova-ow2en]

16:42 no such thing as “falling in love”. Relationships have always been economical

[@rottenaudiobooks2310]

8:15 "in general...men are less successful when they attempt to be celibate..." Now thats fascinating because from my experience, it's generally men who are more attracted to the prospect of celibacy. Think about religious institutions which glorify celibate male priests. I don't find an obsession with celibacy so much amongst female writers or acquaintances. Maybe it takes on a divine mystique among men partly because they has more trouble enacting it in reality?

[@hangukhiphop]

nuns, vestal virgins, etc. not to mention the prevalence of immaculate conception in ancient mythologies

[@rottenaudiobooks2310]

@@hangukhiphop You are absolutely right. I was referring to very general trends. Think about the Incel community was started by a woman, but quickly became dominated by angry men (obsessing over the topic of celibacy). From what I've read men struggle more with masturbation, porn, impure thoughts; etc. potential impediments to chastity/celibacy. Likewise in my male acquaintances I hear expression of the DESIRE for chastity more than I do from my female acquaintances. "If only I could stop thinking about sex!". My female acquaintances generally stress out about other stuff. Once again very general observation.

[@rottenaudiobooks2310]

@Elias Farendune Clobberer Maybe thats it. Thanks!

[@hangukhiphop]

RottenAudiobooks Very true. It's a powerful urge!

[@TheGreenPillCoach7]

It really depends on the demographic you're studying and observing. Over all, men are aware that they have a more active and regenerative libido that stimulates and provokes the female libido after being excited by the female form and sensuality, in the first place. Women don't have the push of male testosterone, and modern women in Western societies have attitudes towards their own sexuality that are variant and may or may not reflect biological realities. So, it really depends. Men definitely won't be able to actually remain celibate, on average, as well as women can.

[@whoopshoopadoop8900]

I like the way you present the info. Super easy to follow. I remember trying to read some of these papers and they're full of jargon.

[@a24-45]

Dr Grande, thanks for standing up for science! Science asks questions... "what if...? and imagines futures better than any that have ever existed..science isn't satisfied with "that's just the way things are and always have been, who knows why and who cares" .And unlike religion and politics/ideology, Science is the only discipline that KNOWS that it doesn't have all the answers, and that it never will. We would all benefit from applying more scientific thinking in our lives.

[@propheteyebert7063]

Yet "believe the science" is now the favorite phrase of those who want to ban the scientific method and replace it with political dogma.

[@QED_]

Sexual Economics Theory: describes things the way they actually are. Feminist theory: describes things another way they might be if they weren't the way they actually are.

[@_erayerdin]

SET: Describing actual. The main premises are formulated as "A is B". Tells the apple falls. FT: Describing ideal. The main premises are formulated as "A should be B". Tells the apple should fall in a certain manner.

[@sayingthethingstheywont2619]

Reputation is 100% renewable for a women, why do you think they travel so far to go to universities? why do you think the first thing most women do when their schooling ends is leave to a far off city? To renew their reputation and increase their market value.

[@gwho]

one of my fav videos on YT. well done.

[@katiess9708]

Well you just keep wading in to deep waters! Thank you for giving us more to think about. I appreciate you comparing the two theories. I hadn't contemplated it in that context. I tend to think that biological imperatives and evolutionary psychology are at the root of sex and procreation whether women were chattel (traded, assigned, gifted, sold or enslaved) or chose their own destiny.. Sexual selection is going to be about looks (signs of health and robustnous) and resources, because children require vast amounts of time, stamina, health and resources to raise. After all, nearly every war in history is about acquiring land, labor, gold(or it's equivalent) and women. Your recent videos about this group intrigued me for sure. After tangling back and forth in the comment section, I found that this group desires to adhere to a one dimensional, anecdotal narrative to make sense of the complicated, confusing and sometimes esquisitely painful realm of sexual politics. Neither gender understands the others' motivations, how they communicate or how they perceive overtures, marriage, aggression, procreation, courtship, parenthood and acquiring resources. Thank you for bringing the focus around to reviewing what we know from peer reviewed literature and emphasizing continued experimental research. If you can recognize or consider that your rival, adversary or counterpart's internal landscape is entirely different than your own, then you can begin to listen and alter responses, instead of instinctively reacting. Because the best result when humans have conflict, is to persuade others to form a mutually beneficial accommodation. It is natural for us to attempt to make sense of devestating circumstances by identifying someone or some group or philosophy as the reason. Doing that makes your world safer, you can avoid a noxious situation in the future and you don't have to contemplate your own responsibility or role in your circumstances. Both genders should continually consider and refine our roles to ensure equitability and fairness. That is the legacy we will leave for the future generations of our species whether or not any one becomes a parent.

[@katiess9708]

@@RN-gx7wt You are cracking me up! Maybe I should start bird watching instead of people watching! I'd probably just end up watching the birders themselves! You have a really good point though. Time is limited and a person should be choosy and not race down fruitless rabbit holes! Of course, that is my justification for hiring a house cleaner. I started calculating how many hours of my life would be devoted to just vacuming. Or putting silverware in some arbitrary exact spot. I felt robbed! Plus, all that is sooooo soooooo boring. I have worked extra to have one. I'd actually work four jobs and skip meals to keep the houskeeper twice a week! So, yes, one must be discriminating about mental and emotional investments. On the other hand, I am perpetually distracted. I resolve to be more disciplined or follow some loose regimen. In short order, I generally eek and ooze out everywhere. This is probably the reason I'm all for equal rights. I like being a girl, but in other places and times, I am pretty sure I'd be beat regularly or buried in the back forty after my parents tricked some man into marrying me! My old boss at work would allow me two minutes, one topic per shift to "Geek out" . I would enthuse and wax poetically. My peers would be quiet, but no one listened or better yet, conversed. Kinda the same on you tube, but you talk back to me R.N! Pretty awesome! May you always think deeply and relevently. May you relish life and may any hardships continue to forge a remarkable person.

[@katiess9708]

@@RN-gx7wt Wow. Just wow. I think you are operating on a plane I can only catch glimpses of here and there. I don't always follow your stream of consciousness. I caught notes of wistfulness, dreamyness, longing, sorrow and an otherworldly state.

[@katiess9708]

@@RN-gx7wt My impression is that your mind ambles back and forth between a vast and varied interior world and the world as the rest of us know it to be. That makes you fascinating. I have seen the comments by others here and there. I am not the only one charmed by your thoughts and prose. I vaguely remember you discussing poetry with another subscriber, but I don't recall the details. Do you write, journal, paint, sculpt, perform, etc., Or otherwise reveal those thoughts, notions, and sensibilities to the rest of us? A comment section is restrictive when one wants to express many thoughts or tangle with a topic from a number of angles! Your are right, I did miss relating those other qualities in your comment. I actually had a longer comment that I shortened, because the more I tried to nail down the notes or tones or essence of your comment, it seemed I drifted...... I did enjoy it, maybe even understood more than I can verbalize. I don't have to comprehend you fully to be moved by your words. Sometimes that is as it should be! Thank you for the many kind sentiments! I guess we can agree we are fans of each other!!

[@katiess9708]

@@RN-gx7wt When you say your mind is forced on the outside, do you mean your extraversion pushes you out of your internal world forcing your spirit to interact there, or do you mean the external world engages your focus on what is outside your mind? Or did you mean something else entirely?

[@لمىالشريف-غ8ك]

This is a very articulate way to talk about sex trade! I didn't really understand Dr.Todd's opinion on this! Really unbiased!

[@psyclotronxx3083]

This was a good presentation. Thank you!

[@carbon1479]

One thing that seems really obvious, ie. debates in the SET vs. counterpoints, about women wanting sex less than men vs. men seeming less trustworthy, it seems like a significant of amount of the difference could be degree of biological/physiological commitment to outcomes.

[@AntoDesormeaux]

It's not that women necessarily want sex less, it's that they have more to lose and more to fear, so they are forced to be selective.

[@eidiazcas]

They want sex less overall, which's backed by numerous studies. If they didn't, there would be no problems after marriage, that's consistent all over the world in every culture

[@AntoDesormeaux]

@@eidiazcas women are indeed not programmed to be driven to seek sex like men are for evolutionary reasons, but if the problems come after marriage and not in the boy/girlfriend phase, it's not due to a fixed characteristic in women. Problems after marriage are to an important extent due to the fact that the romance/honeymoon phase of a relationship lasts only two years

[@AntoDesormeaux]

@@DCXCoorexDakarCoore The evidence shows the opposite, but that is a common view among men who had inadequate mothers and grow up to distrust women. "The results from this new survey, alongside additional research, support the view that when men pursue short-term mates they desire large numbers of sex partners and are generally quick to consent to sex, whereas when women pursue short-term mates they appear motivated more by partner quality than by partner quantity. This evidence also suggests that pluralistic theories of human mating are more likely to be correct than competing perspectives in which all humans are equipped with a singular (either long-term or short-term) mating strategy." Schmitt, D. P. (2003). Universal sex differences in the desire for sexual variety: Tests from 52 nations, 6 continents, and 13 islands. Journal of Personality and Social Psychology, 85(1), 85-104. The last part bears explaining. Humans are not a tournament species like Chimps, not a highly sociosexual species like Bonobos, and not a monogamous species like eagles either. We have characteristics of all three expressing in different degrees in different individuals, due to their genes and life experience (e.g. childhood trauma such as sexual abuse often leads to personality disorders that include impulsivity and promiscuity) Our tournament species traits determine that how much sleeping around happens does not depend only on selectivity, but on opportunity as well. In a tournament species, the males that are rated as less desirable are unlikely to be selective, and yet their reproductive success is low. Tournament strategy: Males to sleep around and females to choose mates primarily for genes and resources e.g. narcissists, gold diggers Serial monogamy strategy: both sexes are sexually selective and pick mates for parenting potential among other things Bonobo strategy: males and females sleep around whenever they can and end up in the Maury Show. Note that because in the same species we also have tournament characteristics, females with this strategy are likely to find more mates than the males. However, two strategies drive sociosexuality in men, whereas in females, one strategy drives sociosexuality to the same degree, and the other drives opportunistic mating - a more selective version of sociosexuality.

[@AntoDesormeaux]

@@DCXCoorexDakarCoore That utterly sucks, but it would be silly to hate or distrust half the population because of one woman...Same as when women say "all men are the same". I find it interesting that some men get into that situation repeatedly while others never do. Just like some women get into relationships with abusive men multiple times, there's usually a reason. Often there are signs, or red flags, that paradoxically attract people who have already been hurt in a similar way before. I see it all the time. An extreme case that is close to me: One guy I know specifically chooses women who will "use" him because of emotional immaturity (the woman's, I mean), and he's really insistent on that by always putting himself last, giving her only rights and no responsibilities, and basically behaving like a butler. He gives free rein to narcissistic and immature traits in the woman and they get magnified - if he's the butler, then that means that she's the boss or master. His mother used him as a meat shield growing up, her narcissistic husband would beat on him and not on her anymore. She never wanted to leave him, eventually the dad left instead, and after that this eight year old kid was pretty much the only adult in the house. He adores his mother, I despise her. It's not easy to dig up the reason why we do this sort of thing, but it can help to avoid choosing the wrong mate. I wish you luck with your future happiness and with steering clear of the unsavoury types.

[@johnblanckenberg4772]

I don't know how valid these stats are, but it has been said that one's baseline chances of divorce in the US is 50%. The likelihood goes up to 70% if your wife start earning more than you. And up to 85% if she undergoes bariatric surgery. If true, this might support the hypergamy construct regarding SET.

[@Earlybird86]

This model is a sober acknowledgement that human social interactions are ultimately transactional

[@robertyoung1777]

This is an eye opener for me. Thanks for making it.

[@Midnight_Metro]

Your sources are valid, but your conclusions don't seem to follow. How exactly does Sexual Exchange Theory dehumanize women and not men? It treats both male and female sexuality as commodities and only analyses the value of both. Women simply have higher value sexually then men.

[@theunconventionaldeal3879]

He needs to do a video on why 80% of men have no value to women.

[@theunconventionaldeal3879]

@Wild Bird my comment wasn't designed to show personal lack of knowledge, And your comment wasn't designed to be helpful.

[@theunconventionaldeal3879]

@Wild Bird you only supplied an arbitrary comment solely based on your uneducated opinion that somehow I need some "truth". I wasn't asking for help nor knowledge with my original comment, it was more of a joke based upon the theme of the video.

[@joykiser6673]

This was so interesting. I never knew this was something that could be studied.

[@annmurry8589]

I really detest the current trend of reducing every factor of life into a business model. This works fine for some things but not all things. Perhaps one could argue that capitalism demands that every institution and aspect of life has its associated business / accounting records. In schools this leads to "I paid so where's my A". There is every motive for colleges to jack up tuition to the max and stretch out the years for graduation beyond 4 into 5 or even 6. In hospitals this leads to a used car chop shop approach that ignores causes and maintenance while it focuses in on only symptoms and benefits more from medicines with side effects than without. The economic / business model had its place but has gotten so out of control and makes me sick. It reduces love to pimps and hoes. I'd rather die alone. I can no longer reccommend to students that they should try to go through traditional university degree programs without scholarships. I will go to the doctor under the same conditions that I would go to the dealer.

[@kathrinjohnson2582]

Agreed ! It's sad. It takes the human element out of the most human things.

[@richiehype1979]

This is a fact of life where u live...not liking it? Ok...but changing much about it is doubtful.

[@helloworld7818]

Love doesn't exist, it's just sexual competition, sexual attraction for a mate, and then marriage, that means resources sharing and reproduction. Passional love has a duration of 3 years, after that everything is about the resources for women. Sexual economics explains it really good and it's absolutely true. Over sensitive people just can't deal with the truth. Love is bullshit that people invented to make sexual life and mating less "animal". But we are just developed primates.

[@hangukhiphop]

@@kathrinjohnson2582 I can tell ya there aren't a whole lot of things in this world more human than "pimps and hoes" haha

[@2ndChildwestCoastSo]

From a health science researcher... yay for this discussion.

[@lauraj4435]

It makes me really uncomfortable to hear about sex being 'traded' in this way. Trust me, if someone i was with viewed it in this way (i.e. trading something to have sex with me), i would be running for the hills. I understand the points raised however what these people who believe this don't understand is that there is a complex range of factors when deciding whether to sleep with someone. Would they stand by and support you if you accidentally got pregnant? Are they respectful of you? Is there mutual attraction? I think women have a lot more to lose when deciding to have sex with someone, which is why they don't as much.

[@General12th]

"Sex as transaction" is an uncomfortably cold way to think about the world.

[@SonoTom]

economic principles apply to choices between options, and exchanges of value generally, regardless of whether there is any rational calculation being made. the reasons you mention for women's reticence are indeed among those that require 'work' from men, to meet requirements - i.e. they are 'paying' or 'investing' for access. this is a consequence of the female evolutionary role as wielder of sexual selection.

[@mon_ange333mony4]

As a woman i can say that no matter how engaging, good looking or safe a man might appear on a first date and even if I physically felt attraction right away i still would have mixed feelings about going all the way with him after that. The arguments are : 1. How safe can you be with a total stranger? ( meaning excluding assault, the possibility of getting pregnant and getting sick afterwards) 2. Why would you accept this right away knowing that waiting for another date can be an opportunity for greater satisfation as you find more reasons for being attracted than otherwise? 3. What happens if you risk rejection knowing he won' t reject sex if he knows you better or enough to take into consideration more of your personality than otherwise? I think these 3 fundamental questions should also pop out in the mind of more people who trade personal pleasure for the 'other' s' pleasure. Lust should be a reciprocal avenue of exploration and fun, not a path of power struggles and control. For as long as control, dominance will be a factor for one party, instead of cooperation, the greater are the chances that the other partner will be at a loss, pleasure wise, socially wise, so on and so forth.