Shadow: Buffy the Vampire Slayer 5x08 Reaction

[@sirmoonslosthismind]

ben: "my unsolicited advice of the day" dakara: "that she didn't ask for" me: "yeah... that's what 'unsolicited' means..."

[@DakaraJayne]

yep that's the point lol

[@Kayjee17]

Buffy's relationship with Angel was like a lot of "first true love" ones, he was her everything and her whole world revolved around him, including the slaying. Then he became Angelus and straight up emotionally tortured her for months... until he became Angel again just in time for her to have to kill him. When he came back she had months of slowly realizing that as much as she still loved him, it would never be the relationship that they needed it to be, so it ended. That whole experience, not to mention the Parker thing, has left Buffy with a serious case of "I can only let Riley into my heart so far and no farther because I can't go through that again". She does love Riley, but she isn't ready to let anyone be her first thought or her whole world again right now because the last time hurt too much. Riley is a nice guy who was a hero soldier who protected people from the bad guys, and if you know anything about the military, you know that being a member is designed to become the basis of a person's self worth. When Riley found out the professor/the authority he trusted most was kind of a bad guy it did a number on him. However, he ended up with a girlfriend who really is a hero who protects people from the bad guys, and he not only fell in love with her, he also joined in with fighting the bad guys like before... and he seems to have transferred his feelings of self worth over to their relationship connection. So we have Buffy, who is loving and trusting Riley as much as she can right now; and we have Riley who has made Buffy his whole world, and who is feeling hurt that she doesn't feel the same way so he interprets it as her not loving him - or at least not loving him enough. I believe Riley went to the demon bar looking for a fight so he could blow off steam over his frustrations, but he went back out of a desire to try to understand Buffy's feelings for Angel. I also believe he let the female vampire feed from him from a desire to feel needed, because he doesn't think Buffy needs him since she didn't immediately tell him about her mom and run to him for comfort. The problem is Buffy told him she needs to stay strong right now to be there for her mom and Dawn, and Riley being upset that she didn't break down crying in his arms is a completely selfish thing. The fact is that Riley needs someone who will make him their whole world, and Buffy has finally figured out that being the Slayer will always come first. They just won't work out because they need different things.

[@CJ77777]

Absolutely. You worded this so well. One thing I'd add to the end of that. Sometimes when one person in a relationship (and we often see it with a woman in the relationship, and I think it's more accepted that way) feels ignored/ left to the side/not seen, particularly when they do make their partner their whole world, it ends up making them desperate for affirmation. This can come across as clingy or needy when, really, it was all spearheaded by the need to feel wanted. I like that they showed this with Riley as we do tend to see it portrayed with female characters. And I think this is also why people tend to be very harsh with Riley because they label him as mopey, or needy when, really, he's just a little lost.

[@eberwald4438]

RIP Sandy, you will be missed. First vamp Willow turns her in Doppelgangland, then Riley stakes her. She can't catch a break. :(

[@talesyuki]

it's the "oh no" when the snake invaded the magic box that got me cackling

[@killianlpc]

What is incredible about S5 is even though this is a supernatural/fantasy show, the harsh realities of real life are always there, and are manifested in this Season especially. Joyce's illness is in the background at this point, and Buffy has to try and contend with this as well as trying to protect Dawn from Glory. We also have Riley being in Angel's shadow with Dawn innocently telling him Buffy never was as upset over him as she was with Angel, and Spike sniffing Buffy's jumper and stealing her knickers as well. The build up from here on in to the arc of the Season is exceptional. Amazing writing.

[@angelaholmes8888]

I absolutely agree with you 💯😊

[@AustinSamson1999]

The acting in this episode is just 👌 I love how vulnerable they allowed Joyce’s storyline to be and how you can tell Sarah Michelle Gellar is REALLY internalizing the feelings. Her line at the end where she says she won’t be able to stop crying if she starts is SUPER powerful to me. And being unbiased, Season 5 anya may just honestly be the BEST character in the show lmfao she’s HILARIOUS 😭🙌 NGL tho, I do REALLY feel for Riley. On my first watch through I think I was probly caught up in the same energy as most viewers which is just “meh” when it came to him but in multiple rewatches I gotta say He’s SUCH A GOOD DUDE and frankly the BEST relationship Buffy’s ever had. Her past trauma makes her current behavior totally understandable but it’s still super shitty for Riley, he’s done NOTHING but be a supportive and caring boyfriend and Buffy’s kinda take that for granted so far 🤷🏻‍♂️

[@mj6866]

This is my favorite season.

[@marekkozub8957]

Thank God cast performance is so great, quality of special effects doesn't really matter.

[@arielcarmona6660]

yea it's like the Twilight zone, or Star Trek, the special effects don't translate but they take a backseat to the drama humor and characterization which makes the show brilliant, memorable and iconic. I mean, over 25 years since the show originally aired, it is still entertaining new fans. The mark of a fantastic show and I think in season 5 specially, the writers cast and producers are at the top of their game. It is my favorite season. I don't agree about the chemistry part, yes it is subjective but comparing Riley to others, there is no chemistry there for me, never was. I think most of the audience could see it.

[@hardybryan]

Buffy not even telling Riley what's happening should honestly be the final nail for Riley. When my father had cancer, the first thing I did was call my then girlfriend (now wife), because she is the most important person in my life. Riley is an afterthought for Buffy. It's not her fault she doesn't feel that way about him, but it's the reality. But Riley is so scared of that conversation, he's doing this instead.

[@Talisguy]

As far as we know, he's the second person to know outside of the family: the Scoobies only talk about it after the diagnosis is revealed and I believe it's after Buffy calls from the hospital. Based on the evidence, we don't know that she told *anyone* besides Spike, who only knew because he happened to be there at an unusually vulnerable moment. Because he tried to kill her and changed his mind. It looks like she's shutting out everyone here, not just him. But Riley's estrangement from the group means he can't confirm this, so the spiral continues.

[@DmGray]

Yup. And yet so many people fail to recognise that this is two people acting wrongly. One oblivious to the hurt they're causing. The other acting out of hurt they are not communicating to the other. Happens irl all the time, and it's often bitter and toxic. It's ALMOST like the show makes genuine attempts to portray real human relationships, flaws and all ;)

[@stephaniebarker472]

And by ALMOST you mean EXACTLY, right? It’s hard to watch. Riley is a super nice guy but also super needy. I can’t help think that if Angel were still around, Buffy would have told him right away about her mom (and cried in his arms like a baby). For whatever reason, Buffy just can’t let herself be truly vulnerable with Riley. I think because she feels he needs something from her that she’s not willing to give. Angel was not perfect but one thing I think we can say is that he was never needy.

[@DmGray]

I did mean exactly :P It was sarcastic caps lock ;) I'll disagree with Angel not being needy. At times he was... BUT he's also mature enough (even discounting his years as a vampire, he's in his 20s) to be self aware. Angel punishes himself for being needy :P @@stephaniebarker472

[@Wannabe_Baby]

Yeah. People act incredibly harsh towards Riley. He may not be my favourite character but Buffy treats him as an emotional support tool more than a boyfriend; she'd rather be doing anything else in the world than spending time with Riley, unless she NEEDS him around, in which case he'd better come running. Buffy keeps him at arm's length and makes him feel lonely even while in a relationship with him. I actually think Riley's issues with this relationship aged very well. The fact that some of the fandom expects Riley to not have feelings of his own in a relationship and just put up with a girlfriend who doesn't give a crap about him is incredibly toxic.

[@cedricdallaire3324]

Sandy the vamp girl in the bar is the same girl vampire willow drank in s3 at the bronze.

[@jzchillin]

Great reaction to a great ep that was chock full of many things going on between the: situation with Joyce, Riley's growing realization that the situation with B is not working for either of them, and all of the gang working together at the Magic Shoppe and on the situation with the Big Bad - who now has a name.... Glorificus/Glory/or Creamy Coolness whichever you prefer.... LOL and this sets up more things to come..... great stuff as always D that nets you 2 CTU's for your vids today.... Keep em coming!

[@DakaraJayne]

I keep getting thrown off by the name change haha, great to see you watching and sharing your thoughts as always CTU to you as well

[@godmagnus]

I don't trust that guy. He's always in that hospital where he works 🤔

[@DmGray]

tbf, that's just normal Whedon-related trauma. See a guy more than once? Probably up to something.

[@Talisguy]

She's well ahead on Patreon, so it's not a spoiler to say that this particular bout of irrational paranoia was very justified in the end.

[@DakaraJayne]

dude, this is TV and he's getting added screen time haha (not just a nurse in the bkground).

[@ace360]

3:38😂 Damn right Spike! 6:02 I will lmao Kill him! And Oh boy I remember this episode..❤🙏

[@leniloubettyboopbossyboots247]

Yep. Snakey Wakey is the funniest monster we've had in a while.

[@TrillaDilla410]

Don't know if you read your comments (due to spoilers) Dakara Jayne, but it's great to see you still cranking out content. Mom and I watched Buffy when it first came out years ago. Man I'm old lol. Hope and pray everything is good your way xx Jason Ryan Wilson

[@Bobby-LeeChanning]

she's on s6 on patreon

[@PurpleNurpleSPN]

@@Bobby-LeeChanning She's not long started season 7 now. she's headed towards the end...

[@DakaraJayne]

I always read comments (has to be a little late so Mods keep me safe, thank you Mods!) :) great to see you enjoying Jason

[@pillmuncher67]

Lord Refa! If you know, you know.

[@Garagantua]

Wow, never noticed that!

[@bryanharrington2736]

BTW, the Riley Buffy ship has to be Ruffy (absolutely not Biley)!

[@DaDunge]

3:45 Oh Riley is so brave. He would last all of two seconds against Spike if Spike didn't have the chip.

[@russellward4624]

I can talk bad about Riley. さよならcaptain carboard.

[@Girl4Music]

Yeah, Tara has body confidence now so she’s wearing riskier clothing. Willow is obviously loving that bodaaay. Good.

[@Bobby-LeeChanning]

not in the bible 🤓🤓🤓

[@Girl4Music]

@@Bobby-LeeChanning fuck the bible. Let’s go lesbians!

[@Girl4Music]

Posting my BUFFY REWATCH recap for ‘Shadow’. May contain spoilers. I love this scene. It's total classic camp comedy style where the characters are all oblivious to what is going on and the audience totally knows what's happening. It's funny as fuck how Giles just hands that stuff to Glory without realizing that that's who they're looking for and none of the other characters realize it either. 😂 I'm so proud of Tara. 😁 She's finally including herself in with the Scooby researching and detective chatter. And they probably would have never figured out that crucial information without her thinking outside the box (or outside the books) and mentioning that who they're looking for predates all recorded information. Score for the blonde witch! I'm sure Willow was very proud too. 😊

[@jimhoyt5]

When Ben directly states that his advice is unsolicited, there really isn't a reason for you to say that Buffy didn't ask for it. Whether or not you trust Ben, the fact that you think he's always around shouldn't be the reason. Buffy is seeing him at the hospital where he is an intern, and interns average between 60-80 hours a week.

[@DakaraJayne]

there is a reason...the lack of trust - you just said it. Was literally just having fun & guessing/speculating, the reason of reactions, no?

[@warrengday]

I am really enjoying your reactions and comments on the relationships and actions.

[@DakaraJayne]

thanks Warren, means a lot you're enjoying :) plenty more episodes to go too

[@debroffe4354]

Riley dose t need Buffy needs to serve his country give him real purpose to his life I also think needs to talk someone what happened to him

[@Logan_Baron]

"I've been saying what a good guy you were". Well that's pretty much Riley's motivation from here. With the talk from Dawn and especially from Spike (who you noted knows what buttons to push), he's looking to step into the darker side. Whether it has any sway on Buffy or not, that's what Spike convinced him of.

[@frugalseverin2282]

Riley took Spike's words to heart, he's not the man Buffy wants so he's trying to become that person, be darker, less white-bread.

[@colleenmarin8907]

Buffy wants the stability of Riley; but Riley is incapable of communicating his feelings in inadequacy to Buffy; this can only result in the breakdown of their relationship

[@DmGray]

Dak definitely gets it with Riley. He's a good guy. Sure, he makes mistakes, gets insecure (with justification) and hurts Buffy. But I've ALWAYS hated how hard so many fans are on the character simply because they don't like the relationship. To me, a healthy person just recognises that they aren't right for each other. That Riley should move on and that Buffy REALLY needs to appreciate that she isn't giving herself to her partner the way she should. Toxic people project their own toxicity, call him names, point out every flaw (several of them with spurious or zero foundation) and are generally nasty. I see less of that recently bc so many reactors are having healthy (dare I say, more modern) responses and their own toxicity has become a bad look :P Man does need a smack upside the head, obviously. But the scoobies as a whole absolutely SUCK at communicating with each other. As do most people tbh.

[@Talisguy]

Riley's far more in the wrong than Buffy and I will die on this hill - just because I get where Riley's coming from doesn't mean I don't think he's the asshole here - but most of my dislike of this plotline is because of how it ends. When I try my best to look at it objectively, I think it's a pretty believable disintegration of a seemingly strong relationship that makes Riley a fair bit more interesting than he had been earlier. ...But the way the ending is framed pisses me off so much that it's really difficult to look at it objectively.

[@DmGray]

They rushed the end, for sure... but I disagree with yout assessment of the wronged party WITHIN the relationship. Buffy has a LOT going on, but Riley doesn't know MOST Of it until people from OUTSIDE of their relationship tell him. Imagine if some guy that your partner HATES keeps telling you about serious issues affecting them? Some guy who is ALSO extremely manipulative and definitely pulling your strings. Also, Buffy isn't the only one that has gone through a lot. Riley lost his ENTIRE life and career. He JUST had a major operation to fix problems caused by months of drugs and experiments performed on him without his consent. You have, at every turn, been reassuring and supportive within your relationship. Even when she lied about being bitten by Dracula. Even when she ran off to meet her ex. Even when she CONSTANTLY questions your affection (the replacement, this years girl) But she won't even treat you with respect (he's "sweet and kittenish" remember? He shouldn't be doing that thing he trained for and was doing before they even met) and has NEVER replied to "I love you." Honestly, you need to think more on this objectively. I suggest you REALLY try to reverse the genders in your mind. Imagine Riley is a girl, and Buffy is the bigger, stronger man. I don't think it takes long to realise that Buffy has been FAR less than an ideal partner and that Riley is simply reacting to the alienation. Neither of them is the arsehole. Neither is the bad guy. But Riley has tried to make it work, tried to get Buffy to open up, to let him support her. Buffy has not. And as for the eventual conclusion, the irony of Dakara's last comment on the subject should not be lost on you. As happens so often with the show, she'll get EXACTLY what she wishes for... but now the way she wants it ;) @@Talisguy

[@Talisguy]

​​@@DmGray Sure, Buffy keeps him at a bit of a distance, but she does also explain what she needs when pushed - when told to let it out, she says she can't, *not now.* She communicates that she feels she needs this distance because if she opens up, she doesn't feel like she'll be able to put herself back together for a while, during an extremely fraught time in her life where she feels she can't afford to break down. Instead of accepting this for what it is, asking for clarification or picking a quieter moment to have a conversation with Buffy about what she means by this and how they can support each other, he has a very specific idea in mind for what Buffy "letting him in" looks like and takes the absence of this extremely specific reaction to a traumatic situation as proof that she doesn't love him. And the answer to "am I the asshole for cheating on my girlfriend with vampire prostitutes because she responded to her mother's brain tumour by stoically shouldering the burden herself instead of crying in my arms?" is always "yes." Also, one, Dawn may be embellishing things with the "weak and kitteny" comment, and two, Riley had major surgery a few weeks ago and is probably still adjusting to the lack of whatever the hell steroids he had in his system at this point even if he's already bounced back from the heart surgery. It's not unreasonable for her to not want to take him into battle right now. Should they have talked about this? Yes. But it's not as patronising as Riley thinks it is, there is a perfectly valid reason for her sudden reluctance to patrol with him. Also also - Riley's attempts to protect and support Buffy are a sign that he's trying his best, even if it's not what she wants, but Buffy keeping Riley benched while he recovers from surgery, withdrawal and the loss of his experimental super strength is a sign that she belittles and patronises him because it's not what he wants? I feel like those things shouldn't be treated differently.

[@DmGray]

It just seems like you hunt for justifications for Buffy (fine, she's awesome) but hunt for the WORST possible interpretation to condemn Riley. Again, just think what your opinion would be if a man were to demean his partner and question their competence to a third party. I don't think it would be handwaved quite so easily. And the thing is, emotionally distant and unavailable people will CONSTANTLY use the excuse that it's just not the right time. Again, if a man were being all stoic and their partner were offering reassurance only to be rejected... most people would be annoyed at the stoic man. You're also ignoring ENORMOUS heaps of context too. Buffy (from Riley's perspective, with the manipulation of Spike and the immaturity of Dawn) shares more with her mortal enemy than she does with her boyfriend. You can say he shouldn't believe it, and maybe you're right... but Spike is VERY careful to say nothing that is untrue. And remember: the ENTIRE audience can see that Riley is correct. Buffy isn't that into him. He should be better able to deal with that... but do people forget that he's ALSO a college kid? It's even MORE a ridiculous argument when Buffy herself is quite open ( at later points) with her own mistakes and the fact she simply might not be ready for a relationship. Which is fair. But also suggests that Riley's insecurities and complaints are just... accurate. @@Talisguy

[@AustinSamson1999]

Nah this comment thread LITERALLY proved your point my guy, Buffy has some serious past trauma with Angel and Parker that explains her reluctance to open up to Riley but it ISNT. A justification for how she treats him. Buffy 100% WAS IN THE WRONG 👏 FULL STOP. Riley literally did NOTHING except be caring and supportive the ENTIRE time. The mental gymnastics people will do to find ANY REASON to make Riley the bad guy is INSANE and frankly Incredibly frustrating. Buffy ISN’T perfect, she makes mistakes too regardless of what people wanna pretend and this is the PRIME example of how a certain VOCAL community of fans ALWAYS treats buffy as is she NEVER does anything wrong and is CONSTANTLY the aggrieved party in ANY scenario. Buffy’s one of my favorite characters EVER but I’m not gonna sit here and pretend like she isn’t causing problems just becuase I LOVE her. Riley deserved BETTER, full stop. That’s literally all it comes down too, Riley deserves a partner who will be OPEN with him and TRUST him the same way he trusts her. He needs somebody who will treat him like an PARTNER not just a warm shoulder to cry on and bang 🤷🏻‍♂️ honestly my first watch through I was incredibly “meh” on Riley, probly like most fans becuase the relationship didn’t “compare” to the roller coaster with Angel but on multiple rewatches I’ve come to see it in an ENTIRELY new light. Buffy’s frankly taking him for granted right now, and purposeful or not I FEEL for him.

[@willparks3429]

Sometimes the Scoobies are oblivious

[@Buffy8Fan]

It wouldn't bug me so much when the group is oblivious if they didn't try to pawn their mistakes off or ignore them and hope they go away. In this episode's case trying to tell Buffy Glory getting away with Magic Box items was Anya's fault actually gets me frustrated and a little 😠 at them. Their reasoning doesn't help as Buffy needed a slayer issue to take her mind off of her mom and take those issues out on. I actually love when Anya tells Buffy the truth, Buffy gives Giles a look and everyone moves on when he defends himself. The Scoobies have shown many times that if Buffy did something the Scoobies thought an issue or annoyed at her with they would yell at her. Buffy doesn't do that to them.

[@AustinSamson1999]

This is such a cap, Buffy totally has yelled at them MANY times and MORE. She also has her OWN set of issues when it comes to her group, such as CONSTANTLY belittling them AND the contributions they make to the group AND her survival. And consistently de-valuing their thoughts and opinions. She literally JUST told them at the end of season 4 that her decision is what matters and their opinions DONT. She literally said “now I know why there’s no prophecy of a slayer and her friends” despite the fact the Willow, Giles and Xander have all PERSONALLY saved her life and is the only reason she’s made it so far and accomplished what she has. There are issues in the Scooby gang for sure but they are all EQUALLY responsible for it, Buffy’s NOT some victim being constantly attacked by her friends. ALOT of the problems stem FROM BUFFY not the other way around 🤷🏻‍♂️ this entire episode is a PRIME example of that, Buffy COMPLETELY dropped the ball when it came to Riley and was just frankly not a very good GF. Her past trauma explains her actions, but it doesn’t justify how she treats Riley. But there are STILL people commenting here and every other reaction channel that Buffy did NOTHING WRONG in the relationship 🙄 Buffy ones of my favorite characters EVER but she’s definitely NOT perfect and makes mistakes despite what most of the fandom tries to say otherwise, but shes DEFINITELY NOT A VICTIM 🤷🏻‍♂️👏

[@Buffy8Fan]

@@AustinSamson1999 SLIGHT SPOILER FOR THE REST OF THE SERIES Of course Buffy has her own issues about the group. It wouldn't be a frienship if she (or any of them) didn't, but there's a difference between Buffy defending herself in moments like _Becoming Pats 1 & 2, Dead Man's Party, Revelation,_ and _The Yoko Factor_ (as well as future episode's arguments) when The Scoobies start something and being the first to start the arguments. Buffy doesn't start the arguments among the group. The others do. That was my point to what I said about Buffy giving a look and moving on vs other the named episode with group in-fighting. As for Buffy and Riley, I'm not gonna get into their relationship until _Into the Woods._ I never said Buffy was perfect or a victim. That would be ridiculous. I said Buffy doesn't start the arguments and the rest of the group does. And I believe Buffy giving a look to Giles shows her issues while not starting an argument unlike how the group often does start them.

[@nomohakon6257]

Yes, Joyce will be completely fine.

[@DakaraJayne]

-.-

[@Madbandit77]

I thought Glory's snake was both goofy and menacing.

[@theprodigal]

Spike breaking into Buffy's house sniffing her clothes and stealing her underwear... and yet they still let him stick around. Yuck.

[@Bobby-LeeChanning]

it's natural