Israelis: The Jews Who Lived Through History - Haviv Rettig Gur

This program was made possible by the Asper Center for Zionist Education at Shalem College which provides an academic platform for meaningful engagement with Zionist ideas and history. Learn more at: rb.gy/ly5cdr
This lecture was delivered in January 2024 at the Shalem College Fear No Evil Study and Solidarity Mission, a program which brought 36 North American college students to Israel for a 10-day intensive learning experience.

[@emileblanche5868]

I’m not even Jewish or Arab and I love hearing this kind of lecture.

[@novacancy7253]

Me too!

[@jimmyjames7941]

Same here a Christian American

[@peteredwards667]

This is a great article about

[@peteredwards667]

How 😢we got to this point

[@angelasophia3705]

The dichotomy of psychology is really profound between "I will be good and pleasing to others, I won't make waves, I won't be bad or difficult, so that I can be loved/accepted/wanted/safe;" versus, "I am worthy and valuable and inherently loved, just because I exist, and I don't need anyone's approval to justify my existence."

[@Tas2270]

Well that explains the Palestinians in WestBank. Why should they be good victims and allow to be displaced and killed and be unwanted.

[@angelasophia3705]

@@Tas2270 if they believed that they are worthy and valuable and inherently loved, they wouldn't want to murder jews nor kill themselves in the process. They don't love themselves. No one is asking them to justify their existence. If they valued themselves and their lives, and the lives of others and wanted peace, if they would be partners for peace, rather than destructive, there would have been a successful two state solution decades ago. They aren't victims. They make themselves into martyrs for a cause - the eradication of Israel. If they dropped this genocidal cause, everyone would live together beautifully.

[@PatrickPease]

Who is displacing them? 20% of Israel's population is Palestinians who choose to treat jews as equals. Those guys in Gaza and West Bank refuse to accept a jew as an equal.

[@gg_rider]

​​​@@Tas2270 the Palestinians were offered a country in 1936, 90/10 split. Not only was there the refugee issue from Europe, There were local indigenous Jews who never left, and there were refugees from Arab countries. Jews had purchased land from Arabs to the extent that some of the Arabs persecuted (to death) 150 other Arab leaders for selling Islamic holy lands that Muhammad (actually, Umar) conquered in 637. Rather than make a deal on a 90/10 split, the response was the Arab Revolt and the refusal to establish an independent state in the land of Palestine. This would be the second Palestinian Arab State because the British created the first Arab Palestinian state in 1921, the Emirate of transjordan. They had worked on it with local Arab villagers and mini Kings for 5 years. Prince bandar bin sultan spoke for over 3 hours about all the efforts of Saudi diplomats over several decades pressuring Americans and attempting to help Palestinians have their own state, but every time it was this close to a final signature, the top representative who was Yasser Arafat either rejected the deal or in one case he made an excuse to disappear for 3 months. I assume you know that the Arabs of Palestine also refused to establish a state and turned to violence instead in 1947. Is escalated to all out war in 1948 to 1949. I don't know if it's ignorance or conscience propaganda, but people seem to believe that a mass expulsion of Arabs from Israeli cities occurred on May 14th, 1948. That may be because the campaign to totally annihilate the Jews and destroy their state began on May 15th, 1948. Those two things blended together, perhaps, but it was the war that launched people fleeing or being expelled, for various reasons and depending on which historian you listen to. People fleeing War and mass expulsion, that's normal. Look at Syria and Syrian refugees. Even without outright War, there was Jewish mass expulsion from Yemen and Iraq to Morocco and Tunisia and Egypt, as well as Syria and other Muslim states. The people of Israel did not invite the people who just tried to slaughter them to come back and live in the neighborhood. Most israelis, except for probably some religious extremists, would have been overjoyed if the land for peace swaps had resulted in stable peaceful relations with sovereign Arabic, but what happened instead was some combination of terror attacks, for the first Intifada .. AS THE RESPONSE TO THE PEACE NEGOTIATIONS. October 7th was the response to diplomatic negotiations of the Abraham Accords, in which Hamas hoped to disrupt a warming relationship between Israel and other countries like UAE and Saudi Arabia. Not to discount other strategic plans that were laid out in the 1988 Hamas Declaration of existence and purpose. That includes no to any negotiated peace, same as the Arab League three nos in the 1951 Khartoum resolution, no peace, no recognition, etc. They can't have a state which has borders with Israel because that would end the war and would concede that Israel exists, is legitimized, and has borders. After October 7th, the government of the Palestinian Authority in the West Bank published orders instructing mosques to begin preaching the Gharqad Tree verse which is Article 7 of the 1988 Hamas Declaration and also is Surah 2922 in the book of Hadiths that is authenticated as Sahih Muslim. That's the verse that calls for total annihilation of Jews and makes it a prerequisite to getting into heaven, a prerequisite to end times and judgment Day. So that is the government that was projected to be the responsible peaceful rulers of a sovereign Palestine nation state, but over and above any commitment to building a nation, the obsession is annihilation of the nation next door.

[@Tas2270]

@@gg_rider wow for such a long worded responses you seem to be the one peddling propaganda. Let me see here getting 10% of shitty land for double the population of Arab is a good deal that they should take happily? Not surprising that is what they tried to do in Canada with Indigenous people. Nakba is a propaganda and of course people leave when they are massacred and that is normal. It’s only when it’s Europeans that it gets enshrined in booked and taught as gospel. The pre-emptive war of Israel was Arabs fault because the baddies just couldn’t be trusted. And somehow Imams are preaching hate 😂😂 dude which Hasbara telegram did you copy and paste this from?

[@shelleyscloud3651]

I see Haviv & I click on. A simple rubric which has never let me down 🥂

[@trainerdisability]

I just ground him. I’m Now looking for everything. Amazing.

[@jeanneschaefer9318]

A brilliant analysis of basic historys and realities of American and Israeli Jewery. Amazing and profound.

[@harlanglass]

Said so well. Thank you.

[@shelleylingamfelter3265]

😢​@@harlanglass

[@kandilula]

Gur is brilliant. Loved hearing him get so amped up, he's usually very measured.

[@CashCowz962]

Bro is great

[@MaryamofShomal]

As a proud Iranian who was born in Iran, I love my people so so so much and I’m proud to be part of the oldest surviving civilization in the world - but it is with no hyperbole that I say, in my book, the Jewish people are arguably the greatest people who have ever lived. I just pray that more American Jews realize how much of a miracle and blessing from God the modern State of Israel is, both for the Jewish people and for the entire world. God bless and protect Israel, and grant her a swift and total victory over her enemies 🙏🏽 Long live Israel 🇮🇱 Long live Shah Reza Pahlavi II 👑

[@ronshatzmiller3683]

Why are Iranians so effing cool? THank you for your words. I hope we can all get rid of the Ayatollahs soon and you can get your country back!

[@martinmartinmartin2996]

I too am immensely proud of the Israeli Jews , in 1969 I left the USA , where I was born, and became an Israeli-American , Today I live in Israel near Haifa . Israelis are the children, and grandchildren of the survivors of the Holocaust, the survivors of "dimmis" the Arab Middle East, even Jews from India. The Israelis are unique tough and sweet , like the sabra plant.

[@MaryamofShomal]

@@martinmartinmartin2996 SMART MAN 🫶🏽 God bless you for seeing the beauty in your people and your homeland. If I wasn’t so certain that my people back home in Iran are going to soon be liberated from the demonic Islamic regime, I would choose to live in Israel in a heartbeat over anywhere else in the world. As a Christian, I’m always warmed by the miracle that is the modern state of Israel and I thank God that I get to live during a time when the Jewish state of ISRAEL exists. Once we send these demonic mullahs and their terrorist praetorian guard the IRGC back to the deepest, darkest pits oh Hell, I will be moving back to Iran and our two peoples will be close friends and allies once again 🫶🏽 God bless Israel 🇮🇱

[@shlosher]

Thank you, you're awesome! Happy New Years, I believe?

[@DevorahC]

It brings tears to my eyes to hear your generous words. I guess we are hungry for support. Iranian culture is beautiful. So sad the fundamentalists have suppressed your prosperity. May modern ' liberalism' rise again in the world. (note: this use of liberal is not about American political parties but rather freedom and choice, and participation in govt. Thus it includes both Republicans and Democrats in U.S. )

[@sj6986]

I am absolutely absolutely shocked this video has only 1200 likes and some 6000 views. This and the next video are complete eye openers - doesn’t matter what side of this war you are on - Israeli, American Jewish, Palestinian, Arab or just about anyone. Haviv Gur dissects history so masterfully and lays out all its innards for you to see so masterfully that you can completely see and understand each side’s point of view. He does not demonize or judge any side - that is left for the viewer to figure out for themselves. He does have opinions but he makes it clear how everyone landed where they are today in this conflict. A very dramatized and action filled narrative is the Netflix series “Fauda” - makes it clear that for Israelis this conflict is hard and painful but they cannot give up because they are nowhere to go and it is about survival, not morality while for the Palestinians, it is a holy or ideological war.

[@AnnettSchwarz-sheepos_negros]

holy or ideology war 😢😢😢 sad. Means, it MUST be war? Jews are the only remaining "NATION" and the only with the divine right to kill?

[@sandy-jn5rd]

i watched Fauda too, and appalling how the Israeli agents have the license to kill civilians in a gun fight if they fail to duck down. It’s a TV show and the writers may have exaggerated it. But it’s shocking to see they don’t exercise maximum tolerance protocol.

[@mercedesb2299]

He is absolutely spewing ideology, you can't hear it because it is the very same ideology that you already believed, as evidenced by your final sentence. There are whole other groups whose story he is not telling. This is all from the perspectives of the poor bullied Jews. Did you know that Croatians, and Polish, were tortured and abused in concentration camps during this period? He calls them "Nazi collaborators" in this "history"...this is an EXTREMELY slanted history in which he has just erased or maligned multiple other groups of people who were tortured, victimized, and killed too and everyone is gushing over it. It is sick.

[@misriya4147]

Israelis can literally travel.anywhere in the world, but Palestinians cannot. You are inverting the truth

[@lynheller-altona6087]

So completely grateful for this. Made me sob. Because of the flood of understanding and then because of the the relief I felt in the understanding. For the words that put some sort of order to my understanding of what it is to be an American Jew today in the midst of the world of humanity. Gave me a glimpse into the stories that exist behind every human experience. Going to do my best to get others to watch.

[@SP-nx8qx]

I'm envious. As a Greek I wish we had someone to explain our modern history to us like that guy did for you. Instead we get BS after BS.

[@Jjjjjk1001]

I fear that So much of your beautiful culture, the best culture, was purposefully destroyed by the genocidal Ottoman Turks

[@LOPEKJJJ]

He’s mostly wrong, but he makes a brilliant argument.

[@jaialaiwarrior]

Lol. You've got communists like Yanis Vanoufakis! But don't feel too bad. Jews have idiotic self-hating commies among their ranks too

[@OffbeatsMusic]

@@LOPEKJJJ Share a video of your historical talks please, to elucidate?

[@CashCowz962]

Yes..school and mainstream media is total garbage 🗑....they don't teach the truth and all the ugly facts...everything is made up

[@sdarbha4270]

With recent world events, I was searching KZbin for factual, good perspectives and stumbled upon Mr. Haviv Gur's clips - and haven't been disappointed since. Makes me wish I was back in my student days, with access to such enriching learning experiences. Having said that, I should add - When the rest of the world was aflame with anti-Jewish sentiment going back centuries, there's one land where Jews were always welcomed and never persecuted - That is India. This fact is actually mentioned--with gratitude--in one of the founding documents of the state of Israel. India extended that same openness to all religious groups, some religions that most folk in the West haven't even heard of - such as Zoroastrians, a minority who were also "pogromed" (by the Islamic majority in Persia). The tradition of religious tolerance in India goes back literally millenia - An Indian King, Ashoka, issued an edict 200 B.C. that no person shall be persecuted on the basis of religion, and that people are free to pray to whoever they want. Think about that - It would take literally 2000 years for Europe & the New World to come around to that same wisdom. And it's a sad testament to the stagnation of the human mind that some ideologies deny such freedom EVEN TODAY.

[@TzvookT]

Yep, and we Jews (as are Indians too) have a VERY good memory (Kirgil etc')

[@GoldSilverShop]

Wonderful lecture, heartbreaking. He is really good at delivering the message. I really felt the pain of these people.

[@TheoHyman-Bockman]

Haviv has such a dynamic presentation and did an amazing job with this ❤

[@stephensands3485]

What an amazing lecture. Haviv is awesome. I’m not Jewish, just interested in the history and background. Haviv is such a magnetic and passionate speaker, and he does such an excellent job picking up on underlying themes and making them concrete. If he ever stops writing for the Times of Israel, he could easily pick up a job as a college professor and people would love his courses and analysis

[@l.marciaga5030]

His lecture was so informative and of such clarity! I am not Jewish but during this lecture I cried on three different occasions.

[@Maturery]

I am 50 and not Jew and This is the second lecture of Avi that I am listening to and wow. It was quite emotional in the lecture about the second survey done and selection was crematorium. What was felt by the people of that time after all the persecution. Hope the allies seen the same.

[@Stumashedpotatoes]

*Haviv

[@BillPeter]

Great lecture!! I was born in Haifa Israel and was circumcised in King Abdullah of Jordan’s personal tent that he gave to the hospital for thanks in treating his sick son. He wanted peace and the Palestinians murdered him in Jerusalem in front of Al Aksa which led us to where we are

[@sandy-jn5rd]

in fairness, the Palestinian assassinated him for annexing West Bank in 1950, leaving them no land left of their own

[@GY-bd9bo]

@@sandy-jn5rd they were Jordanian citizens. Two thirds of Jordan's population was Palestinian. It's not like they were disenfranchised or under military occupation.

[@65gudgeon]

Gur, you are my campus. I wish I could digest and spew knowledge like you do. ALUF!

[@ArtU4All]

Keep studying and practicing. Memorize a few passages and see how your tongue will become more disciplined and flexible. Read a lot 🤝

[@דוריתמרי]

Wow, this guy is a really great lecturer. As an Israeli Jew, whose grandparents all fled Iraq, I agree - most of us are refugees and descendants of refugees. It's something we just almost never think about.

[@deskset7436]

Whenever people complain about Israeli democracy, I ask them “How many Israelis immigrated from democratic countries?” The answer is almost zero. Czarist Russia, Imperial Germany, Nazi Germany, Yemen, Iraq, Algeria, Libya, Morocco, the USSR”. You’ve got every system of autocratic government imaginable. Autocracy is easy. Religious fundamentalism is easy. Hating others is easy. Democracy is hard. It’s not natural, it takes time, and you have to learn by doing. Give this tiny post-colonial state a fucking break, just like you give every other messed up post-colonial state a break. And when the Palestinians have a state, trust me, it will be an equally messed up post-colonial state. I’m not saying don’t fight for democracy and peace - please do. Just - understand that Israel (and the PA and Iraq and Afghanistan and Malaysia and India and Pakistan) are not America, France, Germany, Britain or Australia. Not because if “cultural differences” or “Western values” but because it took hundreds of years for those nations to establish the kind of democracies they have today, EVEN WHILE they controlled most of the power, money and resources available globally.

[@Colleepoly3975]

I think Zionism places a huge emphasis on not having a "victim mentality" which did prove very fruitful in the project of state-building, but of course that also had its downsides.

[@Owenalpe]

I think about it every day but never did nearly as much before October

[@megantaylor4189]

@@deskset7436 well said.

[@victorleonades4159]

I thought I knew jewish history. This class was amazing!!!

[@Lohensteinio]

Looking forward to lecture number 2!

[@SuperMCFIVE]

This came out on YT a few days ago: The Great Misinterpretation: How Palestinians View Israel - Haviv Rettig Gur

[@Net_Willis]

As an Israeli I can totally see my family's history in this lecture. Fisrt time I leaned about the Jewish- American history though and frankly - very moving.

[@QldTechie]

I'm so glad my great grandparents escaped from there to eastern Australia 🌏, which is where I am.

[@theunboundDragon]

Not all Israelis are refugees. My family for example, immigrated from Europe to South America, where both my parents were born. They had a very good and comfortable life there but decided to make Aliya (immigrated) to Israel about 50 years ago for Ideological reasons. They were offered to go to the U.S. and had refused. I'm glad they did 😊

[@dudah4906]

I owe an abiding debt of gratitude to my forebears for having the guts, initiative, risk taking attitude to flee Eastern Europe for the States.

[@marknaj3026]

​@theunboundDragon what an effing evil ideology

[@sandy-jn5rd]

@@theunboundDragonlol tou aren’t helping 😅

[@lloydgush]

American jewery for years: "what if israel loses its legitimacy?" Me, non jew, for all those years: "If israel has any risk of losing its legitimacy, every country around it lost a long time ago, and so did you."

[@adonissalameh7984]

Dumbest thing I’ve read in a long time

[@lloydgush]

@adonissalameh7984 not an argument.

[@SarahJones-kp9bq]

I love his final statement...absolute truth. You could apply that to many many situations 🙌

[@arnenannestad7788]

You're fantastic keep up the good work!

[@YG-kk4ey]

Powerful ending. Never really thought about that.

[@transformationscircle]

Thank you very much for this lecture! So profound, authentic, insightful and detailed. Blessings to Israel - may it continue to be a safe homeland for the Jews 🙏

[@odettemasliyah8174]

Wonderful part of the Jewish History well done. What I don’t understand is why the history of the Jews of the Middle East was omitted from this lecture. It is an important piece that add to the Holocaust and Israel’s history . These Jews also faced pogroms and in fact were exiled and their property confiscated simply because they were Jews Appreciate Mr Gur’s response

[@ronshatzmiller3683]

True -- he needs to do another lecture. And these jews are now > 50% of ISrael's poopulation. AS an ashkenazi israel-born jew I'm ashamed to say we dominate the narrative.

[@smarinay]

It's not omitted. There's a graph showing the percentage of Arab jews of the Aliyot in different years 27:30, and he talks about it for a few minutes

[@theunboundDragon]

He mentioned they also suffered but doesn't really elaborate. You're right that a lot more can be said about it. There are other videos specifically about this topic (not by Haviv)

[@connie.22]

I'm pretty sure he had a scheduled time, seems he was mostly talking to american Jews, he didn't mention the more recent Russian immigration or the Ethiopian at all.

[@PRO-Alan]

In 1938, the Philippine Commonwealth was willing to grant 15,000 visas to German Jews. However, since they had to travel via Siberia only 1,500 made it. After the war most were able to go to America.

[@danielschwartz516]

Wow spot on. I think the Israelis though have learned "the jewish lesson" all the way through to its very bitter end, while the American jews (who didn't expirence the holocost) didnt.. their "luck" of finding America is now proving to be temporary.

[@whazzat8015]

Everybody's luck in finding America is proving to be temporary

[@marknaj3026]

So the Holocaust lesson is to go and displace another people.

[@xp8969]

​@@marknaj3026 nope

[@krillr_prawn]

Impressive lecture and energetic delivery. Love this.

[@danielgoldberg9231]

Where are the rest of these

[@Jimo1956]

You can find it on the channel of the Shalem College or on KZbin under "The Great Misinterpretation." It posted 2 weeks ago. Just as good as this one, actually even better IMHO. These students can count themselves very lucky to have been able to experience these lectures and visit Israel.

[@amikap]

Brilliant, you just explained my existence to myself.

[@MauriceClingempeel]

Oct 7th 2023 never forget

[@bbasaid6904]

The Palestinian People have been suffering from zionist terrorists for nearly 100 years !! It's time to give back Palestine to its people

[@Tas2270]

Of course not because it will change the course of history and global politics. I disagree that he thinks Palestinians are unaware of Israelis as refugees. The concept of insane is fundamental part of Muslims faith, however Israeli IdF applying Christian thinking and firming up nationalistic identities (all the things that they resented) is the problem. They are not coming up the “final solution” they want their land back and why should they be apologetic? They have a moral and just ask. If we deny it then we are playing into hierarchy of victimhood. For all the folks listening to lectures here would be great for them to learn the global history in the 1800 of the world to understand that everyone was screwed who wasn’t a Christian European.

[@gregorysheindlin2296]

Gur doesn't care about October 7th. He still advocates for the Palestinian state.

[@jackson76724]

Glad this appeared in my KZbin. Brilliant

[@margaretlouis5172]

What an excellent, clear and authentic portrayal of the Jewish dilemma !

[@Nitzpitz]

That is a great lecture! I have learned a lot! And that is coming from an Israeli in the diaspora (Europe) that has written her master thesis on Jewish identity in America . Well done. Will certainly share this

[@Inmyowndamnwords]

Ya shar koiach. What a great lecture. I hope I get to meet you one day.

[@silentmary7]

History is important.

[@theunboundDragon]

A great lecture Haviv. Thank you so much. The second part is really good too

[@k_o_r_a_y]

Very good lecture, speaking of which, somebody was talking about “voluntary migration” recently. Who was that?

[@davidandkath4364]

Is it possible to get a reading list from Haviv Rettig Gur? That would be brilliant. Thanks.

[@rkdb99]

Incredible, powerful lecture. THANK YOU Haviv.

[@BS-jw7nf]

I do like these lectures of Haviv and I believe he has some very good insights on both the Palestian and Israeli historical point of view. Especially his lecture on the palestian’s misunderstanding I found to be very insightful. However one point I do take some issue with is his insistence on presenting the Zionist movement as a rescue mission. While I believe that the Jews who went there in the early days and up until at least the 50-60s can be classified as such, what the Israeli project has turned into today cannot be seen in such a generous light. As it exists now, it does clearly present signs of a colonial project and it does actively try to undermine Palestinian existence. I have great sympathy for the Jewish people and understand why they want to have a homeland, but I feel that uncritically conflating the the reasons of the past with the actions of today is intellectually dishonest and primarily serves to wash the consciousness of it’s people. I hope haviv keeps doing these great lectures, I still feel that their core message is still very strong and should be heard by more.

[@le_rayon_vert]

what are the signs of a colonial project? Apartheid? Why does apartheid exist? And what’s your solution to replace it in light of the fact that Hamas have told Jews in no uncertain terms that they’re coming for the lives of Jewish women and children as soon as they have a chance which means as soon as Israel withdraws and allows them to reconstitute themselves. You really need to learn to think through the implications of what you’re saying.

[@rusiatelali8898]

❤❤❤thank you 4that and big 🙏 from Fiji

[@sobeit2842]

My great grandparents caught the boat to america. I'm glad they did. Not until Prof. Gur's very last gesture, did it occur to me that his lecture took a lot of energy and emotion to deliver. Great lecturer. So, I already saw the "Palestinians" lecture, and just watched this lecture on the Jews. I suppose Mr. Gur hopes that if enough folks become educated on who the Jews really are, and who the Palestinians really are, and enough of them dispel the falsehoods that they currently believe about themselves and the "Other", that they will be able to settle with each other. It would be good to be educated in a history that's based in fact, not myth, but I'm not sure there is any precedence for that in history bringing peace. What we do have, however, is the fact there are 2M Arabs living peacably inside Israel, and Israel has been recognized by some arab states, and there has been no war with these states since recognition. So, I can see a certain series of actions ending in a peaceful settlement of the Israeli/Palestinian conflict. Israel annexes the West Bank and offers citizenship to its Arab inhabitants pending, as it did for Israeli Arabs, successfully completing a probationary period and then pledge allegiance to the state, same as most states require of immigrants. UNRWA is foreclosed. It's operations taken over by UNHRWA, the UN agency which has handled 200M refugees for planet Earth over the last 74 years, all but for the Palestinians. Now, the Palestinians would be treated same as all other Earthlings. Tbey would be settled. Some, would be repatriated to Israel; they would be screened and given the same opportunity to become citizens as West Bank Arabs. Most, though, would be settled either in their present host countries, or in other countries. It would simply have to be done. Would there be risks, casualties, for Israel? Yes, but I think the Israeli's would agree it would be worth it, and they would defend, mostly successfully, against saboteurs accepted into Greater Israel. Do I have a plan for how annexation would be accepted by the world? No. But as Mr. Gur pointed out, Israeli's don't ask for permission. There would have to be an arrangement, whereby the Al Aqsa Mosque was primarily administered by Islamists, possibly a committee representing several Arab states as well as Israeli Arabs, and the Palestinians newly added into the Israeli state. Maybe something on the order of the Vatican in Rome. Hateful anti-Israel, and anti-semitic education would not be allowed any longer for Palestinian children. I think we could rely on Mr. Gur, heading a committee of Israeli and Palestinian historans, to come up with school texts that all schools, whether Jewish, Arab, or other would use regarding the history of these Peoples and of Israel and Palestine. It wouldn't sugarcoat or ignore the crimes, pain, or errors of any of the players. But, it would provide context and it would be, as far as possible, based in fact. I don't think the most influential Arab nations today are so concerned about a Palestinian state. I don't think they believe it's necessary to create that state to resolve the problem, and it's the problem that they want solved, not the state. They are not that keen on the creation of a tiny, deranged, and imperfectly defanged Arab state that will continue to war on Israel when it can. That will be hardly any better, and could be much worse, than the Palestinian situation today. Mostly, they want the problem solved so that it doesn't threaten their interests or their security. They would really rather work with the Israeli's on security, stability and prosperity for the Sunni region I think this could work. ,

[@ingairen21]

Thank you for that, I have never read the “one state solution” expressed like that.

[@marmohad]

What a scholar! Thank you!

[@emameyer]

36:50 that kid's eyebrows rising says it all

[@sivanboodnero]

So perfectly put. We are Israelis and we won’t explain to anyone why we are here. We will never ask for anyone’s permission to be. We are and will always be 🇮🇱

[@sandy-jn5rd]

comments like this makes me wanna go back cheering the other side. we are all hurting. yeah yeah i know. sorry. shalom.

[@jackdaniels2127]

Completely agree, it’s time to come home and fight for your sanctuary. If I am of age, I would have drafted.

[@joncygardner]

Great!

[@richardpage7323]

by starting in 1881 you left out almost 200 years of Sephardic Jewish history in America from Abraham Judah in Rhode Island, Franks and Isaacs in Philadelphia, to Henry Yulee from Morocco to HaLevi in 1698 Delaware. This is primarily a Russian Jewish history, but its very good. Do you think those Jews migrating from Russia would be in America without the well established and historic Sephardic population？

[@LOPEKJJJ]

He left that history out because it doesn’t serve his thesis to explain why Americans Jews are so liberal. It ignores the sefardic jews that first settled America and people like Judah P Benjamin who owned slaves and was the number 2 man in the confederacy.

[@urvanhroboatos8044]

The misunderstanding between Jews and Euro-Americans is profound, and Lawrence Auster has described it in his essay, available online: Jews- archetypal multiculturalists.

[@lebojay]

26:49 “America closes its doors to the Jews even as Europe is getting worse.” Canada too. My country also let down the Jewish people in exactly the same way. Canadian soldiers fought valiantly to liberate European Jews, but Canada still didn’t want them.

[@SarahJones-kp9bq]

Why though...???

[@Jacobsoetsrto3211]

​​@@SarahJones-kp9bq because white hate jew maybe? Thats why we liberal should take all white country by make the white becoming minorities

[@danielquartler1527]

Wow Haviv Gur is amazing

[@sharontzu5]

I agree with most of what you said but with a few reservations: Not all the Jews in Palestine were refugees. There were Jews in Palestine who had been there for many generations - as small numbers of Jews had moved to "The Holy Land" throughout the centuries. At around 1880, Jews comprised about half the population of Jerusalem, and there were Jews living throughout the country, Hebron, Tiberius, Safed and elsewhere. This is important because the Arabs say that Jews have no right to be in Palestine at all. Also, motivation is not either -or. Some Jews CHOSE to move to Palestine rather than to other countries. Even what you say about DPs at the end... the fact that they wanted to move only to Palestine shows that they had adopted a Zionist point of view. And it was those who believed in Zionism as an ideology who became the leaders in Mandate Palestine. I think it's important to point out that Zionism never expoused the removal of Arabs from the area. This is a lie which I understand is now being spread through Wikipedia, where the entry on "Zionism" has been edited and distorted.

[@iuvalclejan]

What Herzl didn't realize is that modernism (or is it capitalism?) will eventually also destroy national identities, not just familial, clannish village, and tribal ones. And now it seems to be destroying even integrated individuals (with the attention economy). National identities seem to be able to be maintained only through common enemies and collective crises. Both Palestinians and Israelis could benefit from the restoration of these levels of organization. The Palestinians need villages. not a sprawling metropolis. And the Israelis need to rehabilitate their Kibbutzim, but not as socialist enterprises.

[@LOPEKJJJ]

Gur makes a beautiful presentation but I think he’s wrong about American Jewish identity and Israeli identity. Jews do a wonderful job of absorbing the foreign cultures where they live. The Jews that immigrated to the USA in the late 19th and earlier 20th century were coming from Russia and Eastern Europe where socialism was a heavy influence. That’s why those American Jews embraced radical liberalism and continued in that direction in the USA. Contrast those Jews to the Jews that were in America before 1776 and those that arrived before the wave of Eastern European immigration. Those Jews weren’t radically liberal and their politics split based on where they lived. For example, during the antebellum period southern Jews had slaves and many Jews fought in the confederacy. The confederacy’s #2 man was a brilliant Jew, Judah P Benjamin, who owned slaves and masterfully articulated the South’s case. Gur is also wrong on Israeli identity. Even though persecution is what motivated most (but not all) immigration to Palestine, it did not form the core of Jewish identity. If refugee consciousness and feeling unwanted was the real core of Jewish identity then the Jews of Europe would have happily accepted Uganda. But it was the Jews persecuted the most, from Russia and Eastern Europe that revolted against that idea and insisted on Palestine. Why? Because deeper than the pogrom experience and antisemitism has been the thousand year old aspiration to rebuild Hebrew civilization in the land of Israel. To rebuild Jerusalem and to restore a Jewish kingdom in the land of their ancestors. These drivers are the real core of Jewish identity. It’s what’s sustained Jewish identity for thousands of years and fueled the return to Palestine, from the original pioneers that were motivated to revive the land to make it hospitable for the masses that followed, to the persecuted masses that felt an innate spiritual and mystical pull to this place.

[@patriciablue2739]

Agreed

[@Historian212]

Simplistic. My great-grandparents came to the US from eastern Europe. Not a single one was socialist. But in the US they were liberal and voted for Democrats. For just the type of reason he said.

[@PeaceForIsrael122]

Amazing insight. Thanks so much.

[@douglasalanthompson]

Great lecture. One thing about Americans is that we are almost all "dual". Irish-American, Polish-Americam, African-American. So to be Jewish-American is not a foreign or scary concept to American sense of self holistically.

[@drf5]

He makes many excellent points. But I think his interpretation that "US Jews are afraid because if American liberal democracy fails (using the classic meaning of "liberal democracy" here), it will be terrible for Jews --and everyone." That's partly true, but the other side of the coin is equally valid: many American Jews (and others) are motivated to action by a simple desire for justice for all and the desire to fulfill the still-unmet promise of American liberal democracy. Not fear, but a profound desire to fulfill the dream.

[@glorialeder989]

Brilliant. Thank you

[@veritas_sweden]

I always admired the Jews 💝 All love and support to Israel💝 Be proud of who you are and what you have achieved 💪

[@Ecclesia.777]

The God of the Universe gave the promised land to the Jewish people. They have a history of being exiled from it by others. Christians believe Isreal is home for the Jewish people. As Christians fight to defend their worship, so they shall fight for the Jews. Somewhere in the Abrahamic faiths there is a common core, but I wonder if we will ever find it ?😢

[@whazzat8015]

The common core is back a few editions

[@leslieackerman4189]

This is illuminating. But sometimes I feel the lesson is given by George Constanza!😮

[@LA99624]

The Biluim was not the first to come to israel at 1881...

[@kenlandon6130]

I'm pro-Palestinian and I absolutely loved this. Everything you don't get in most Zionist or pro-Palestine discourse.

[@TzvookT]

Are you talking about the Arab PalestiNAZIs who came originally from Arabia, or the Jews that lived in the area called "Palestine" by the Romans and the Ottomans ? Since my family is in Israel more about 130 years and I know no other "Palestinians" , but then - I didn't read all the Narnia stories .. maybe there was one more closet ...

[@lloydgush]

What sort of connan name is that?

[@memdaletpey]

Correction: the name of the terrorist group that killed Alexander II was People’s Will, not Black Hand.

[@ArtU4All]

Yeah… Never heard of “black hand”

[@whazzat8015]

@@ArtU4All That was the Serbian backed group that backed the guy who killed Franz Ferdinand

[@MySystemVideo]

WOW

[@danielreiss-cy4zr]

Carl Reiner, the Thousand Year Old Man.

[@janiceridsdale2904]

GOOD ON THE ISRAELI GOV. - THAT GOES AGAINST GODS WORD - NEVER AGAIN WILL THE JEWISH PEOPLE BE DISPLACED FROM THEIR LAND ●

[@juanmiguelsanchezamat8753]

🕊️🇮🇱🙌🏻🙏🧿

[@Nosnoozebutton]

Who are you? You are the ones through whom all families of the earth are blessed. 🇮🇱🇮🇱🇮🇱

[@SuperGaia01]

I couldn’t help but be moved when he brought into focus that Israel was the place where Jews who had no other place to go to stay alive wentz it is true we American Jews dont really understand Israelis.

[@mariedobay3013]

Do the Palestinians have to ask permission to live also?

[@xp8969]

Palestinians are colonizers, they need to leave

[@2002pif]

if the question was sincere - just see the second lecture. If it is a regular whattaboutism - don't bother

[@Tas2270]

This is the biggest session of PTSD. He is right about America being dismantled as well. It is a joke that Europeans think that we all live in a free world. The ratio of youth is changing globally and creating nationalism around faith is going to be a downfall of our humanity. It is true that Jewish history being the longest have been the fundamental to all the disrupters and will also bring about the end of humanity. Great lecture.

[@sj6986]

Not to suggest that Jews did not suffer or were not persecuted. But I think the story of Jews is the story of every minority that did not cede its identity - especially religious or cultural - the romas, the Zoroastrians, Jains, Native tribes all over the world - some made some sort of temporary peace especially if they held economic value to the majority like Zoroastrians and Jains but otherwise they are still, to this day persecuted, deemed untrustworthy and fit for all sorts of collective punishment including complete annihilation. To a certain extent, Europe and US treat Muslims the same way, especially after 9/11.

[@veredp.6779]

While the information is necessary, and historically explained, hearing someone yelling like that is simply unbearable and can turn off people who otherwise would learn. I had to go to the transcript as I could not take the yelling anymore! Carl Sagan could take this presentation and have us want to listen to it over and over again!

[@deskset7436]

Jews are loud. That’s not yelling, it’s passion. Just turn down the volume. That’s what the volume button is for.

[@kapasian9009]

It's so weird, that the guy has so many hilarious joke, and nobody laughs. But after nearly a year if working in an Israeli museum, I got it, that American Jews are strange.

[@CashCowz962]

Will Jews vote for Biden?

[@MaryamofShomal]

They sure shouldn’t! I will never vote for democrats ever again

[@whazzat8015]

I haven't seen a lot of red yarmulkes out there. ? מאגא

[@deskset7436]

Damn right. 70-75 percent. No one in their right mind thinks Trump would be a reliable ally to Israel bc he’s not a reliable ally period. American jews don’t like instability. Trump is all about instability. The Orthodox Jews who support Trump are a minority of American Jews who keep leaving to live in the WB anyway. They are delusional about Trumps reliability as an ally and (IMO) profoundly ignorant of Jewish experience with autocracies. But they don’t care because (1) they’ll just make aliyah if things get too bad and (2) they genuinely believe that if they just keep being right wing and ultra nationalist G-d will save us.

[@Maryculligan]

🇮🇱prayers for Israel. Not safe in USA.

[@Net_Willis]

Nowhere seems to be safe anymore 😢

[@beliveroneGod]

The lecturer should mention that Muslim countries always welcomed and protected the Jews when the Europeans made pacts to cleanse the jews .Muslims countries open their doors and hearts to help the Jews . But for some reason it's never mentioned in lectures.

[@le_rayon_vert]

because it’s a lie and a fairytale you’ve been told. Jews living in Muslim lands experienced the same persecution and pogroms. And where they were allowed to coexist it was as inferior subjects, apartheid, if you will.

[@SuperKripke]

Are Arab Israelis not permitted in lectures like this? The way the lecturer speaks of Jews as 'us' and how Palestinians view them, it seems like he is confident that none of 'them' are in the room.

[@yehoshuadalven]

Are you serious? It's a lecture to visiting Jews from the US. The 'we' refer to the Israeli Jews.

[@SuperKripke]

@@yehoshuadalven Oh yeah, I forgot that Israel only invites Jews from around the world to perpetuate their apartheid ethnostate.

[@roundedges2]

@@SuperKripke Another Hamas troll. That comment is like going to give a speech at a Harvard classroon, and some idiot says "Why do you sound like you are addressing only Harvard students?". How dumb is that?

[@youseffarawila8125]

Genocide in Palestine started before WWII and never stopped. Stop victimizing Palestinians. Just leave us alone.

[@Net_Willis]

I don't think you've listened to the lecture, but try the 2nd one about the Arab side. You'll realize it's more of an ongoing war rather than a Genocide.

[@xp8969]

No one believes your lies Youseff, Palestinians are all colonizers occupying land they stole from indigenous Israelites

[@joeyrufo]

58:29 all you're doing is saying that to say Israel shouldn't exist is to say that Jews shouldn't exist. I would think that no Jewish "critic of Israel" actually believes that (there can't be that many of them either way!), so it's extremely dishonest to act like that's the implication of any "criticism of Israel"

So self-absorbed😂

[@patharvard]

Two facts can coexist. We Jews are both refugees and many of us have become ideologically ethnonationalists. We have become the very people whom we feared and hated. We now treat the Palestinians in ways the Europeans treated us. We learned well from our European oppressors and from the Afrikaners of the pre-democratic South Africa, how to impose occupation and apartheid on our victims. There is no way to honestly describe the Israeli Settler Movement in the Occupied Palestinian Territories as anything other than settler colonialism. Israelis depart the State of Israel, cross the border into Palestine appropriate their land, homes and water and colonize it, making it into extensions of Israel. Since 1967, this colonization has occurred under all Israeli political administrations, liberal and conservative. The greatest threat to our survival and the most compelling source of antisemitism today is the criminality of the Netanyahu administration and American Jewish support of its policies. What scares me the most is that so many Israelis will support Netanyahu’s and the Likud party’s authoritarian expansionist policies, even after Netanyahu goes. As things stand, we are likely to see war and death for decades to come.

[@galuhnoormalisa8349]

Agreed. How will this vicious cycle to end. Now Zionist political movement even endanger the Jews around the world even more and more..

[@MaryamofShomal]

You’re so delusional. I’ll pray for you.

[@sjam1159]

That's totally false.

[@patharvard]

@sjam_1159 ​​⁠​​⁠ Not a word of what I have written is false. However, I am willing to hear any arguments you may have to explain how I am in error.

[@ronshatzmiller3683]

FYI -- I hate settlements and think they need to go. But let me ask you, do you think if Israel pulled out of west bank, stopped all settlements, that the world would stop hating jews? I think its POSSIBLE that it would allow saudi arabia to work with us, and that COULD give us peace like we've had with Egypt. But I don't beleive it will stop the UN, or IReland, or British Islamists, or University departments in the west from hating us.. I really don't. In a way, you're recapitulating what J street is saying to Israelis :" YOU have to be moral so that I, IN AMERICA can survive' -- which is honestly, fine, and seriously, I think settlements are amoral and must stop. However, don't fool yourself that people will stop hating jews in the diaspora -- that's been going on for 2000 years, not stopping now.

Have the Jews ever wondered WHY they are not accepted?

[@Jimo1956]

That's not a serious question is it? There are multiple reasons. Some of them are shown and explained in this lecture and also in the follow-up lecture: "The Great Misinterpretation"

@@Jimo1956 Where there is smoke, there's fire.

[@Jimo1956]

Just like if there is propaganda there are lies.

[@deskset7436]

No. We know that people will do anything to blame their problems on others so they can avoid taking responsibility for their own actions.

@@Jimo1956 as If all jews were angels or victims!

[@oisinoceallaigh1671]

Honest question here . If a quarter of a million Jews were killed mostly within the confines of the Russian civil war what is there number of non Jews killed by Jews during that same period of time? I'm not even saying they didn't have a right to get revenge but showing pictures of dead babies then only giving one side of the story as to how they ended up dead seems very Palestinian of yous.

[@joeyrufo]

48:00 you know the Nazis associated Jews with communism, right? Funny how you didn't mention that as having anything to do with why Hitler hated them 🤔🤔🤔 54:00 And then you talk about 1948 without talking about the nakba. It's interesting how you say, "we have nowhere else to go"... Do the Palestinians have anywhere to go? Or do you consider them "Palestinians"? You did say the word 🤔

[@habibzaatar1870]

Great lecture. While you focus on the purpose of how Jews ended in Palestine you indirectly give legitimacy to the Palestinian’s suffering who were raped, kicked out of their homes, and killed. A clear indictment of previous and new Israeli leaders who would not be stopped to keep refuge even at the expense of making the Palestinian refugees and denying them their basic civic and human rights

[@robinasullivan7879]

Free Palestine

[@Jimo1956]

I nearly agree. Free Gaza of Hamas. IDF is working on it.

[@jameswright2974]

Ireland 200yrs of aphartied

[@renatosassone-corsi1042]

What a load of bullshit….useless drama

[@Maryculligan]

U say this?

[@Jimo1956]

@@Maryculligan Yes him say that. 🤣

[@Jimo1956]

Did you listen to all of it? If so, goal accomplished. If not, you can't really judge it.

[@zarawalden]

Excellent speaker. Fascinating and moving lecture. Before this I only knew of him as a journalist.

[@avimaltzman5673]

Wow. How impressive and the best articulated answer to the “Jewish Question”. Genius. Thank you

[@jkfradk]

This presentation was nothing short of astounding, as is the other video that followed! The mere fact that Israeli society is capable of producing analysis of this caliber and depth is a testament to the fundamentally honest mentality of its people. I highly recommend taking the time to watch the video on the Palestinians.

[@veraglauben]

I am looking forward to the next lecture, thank you very much!

[@SuperMCFIVE]

This came out March 14th on YT: The Great Misinterpretation: How Palestinians View Israel - Haviv Rettig Gur

[@RicardoRodriguez-ik8wh]

Outstanding! A learning dissertation.

[@omarlittle-hales8237]

SALaM, SHLAMa, SHLOMo, SHALoM, NAMASTe, PEACe. ZiONiSM & STATe TERRORiSM, Have Nothing To Do With JUDAiSM. ISIS, TALEBaN & TERRORiSM, Have Nothing To Do With ISLaM.