Shaping Fire Ep 92 - Understanding and Breeding S1 Seed Varieties with Caleb Nspecta and Ryan Lee

[@aldrob108]

As a small grower in a 4x 4 tent, who usually only does one grow a year, I have specific needs and limitations. I need to get good yield to last me a long time and I naturally want them to very good strains. I think a lot of growers are in my boat. I was NEVER in a position as a grower to be able to buy 5 to 10 packs of seeds, grow out 50 plus plants, in order to find a special pheno. My thinking has always been that it was the breeders job to do that. He has the facilities to grow out very large numbers of one strain,pick through them, work with them and give us small time growers the best of the lot. It was completely impractical for a breeder to expect me to do that work. I think CSI understood the real world practicality of what a home grower needs. I’m with Nspecta 100% and I appreciate his work. I know it’s not a 100% certainty that you will get the same plant as the mother but I do believe it gets you much closer to what you want than with regular or straight feminized seeds. That’s been my experience. I know growing out 50 to 100 S1’s would be IDEAL, I don’t live that ideal world. If I grow a pack of 7 CSI S1’s, I know I’ll get maybe 60-70% of that elite plant. I’m very happy with those odds. Chimera is talking to breeders. For the lowly, average home grower, CSI Humboldt is a blessing. We can hopefully get most of that elite and much closer than the vast majority of us would ever imagine getting if not for CSI. Chimera is damning S1’s with faint praise and claiming that you might only get 5% of the real S1’s when you grow 100 plants. Really thought his contribution to the discussion was mostly a put down of S1’s. Almost saying S1’s are really no different than regular seeds and you have to go through a 100 S1’s to get to the real elite plant. Caleb was very gracious with his responses.

[@Andyhustle]

I’m with you on this brotha. I have 6 plant maximum and when I buy $100 or $100+ seed packs i hope that it will be a great strain.

[@OG_VeniVidiVici]

You’re talking about the home grower. He’s talking about breeding to bring something to the market for other people to then home or production grow. There’s a big difference.

[@OG_VeniVidiVici]

And he isn’t saying you have to pop 50, he’s saying that the more you pop, the more chances of you finding the plant with all the desired traits are. Which is true. And nobody said you have to pop all 50 at once. In theory you could pheno hunt pack by pack replacing (or keeping) your keeper every cycle if there’s something better until you’ve ran through the whole pack. Again, this is if you’re looking for something specific to then use as a tool for your own breeding. Again, big difference than someone who just wants an expression of a certain plant for head stash.

[@ry7410]

I clicked this because homie is wearing "Crime Pays but Botany Doesn't" merch. 😂 Good stuff love the show.

[@LoonyProductions]

Anyone who breeds or claimed that they breed should definitely watch this...possibly twice. Great solid information and well put. Thanx for sharing knowledge. Bless up 🌱🌳🌿🤙🏼🙏

[@johnbush3886]

I couldn't agree more! There are several episodes that are just absolutely full of nuggets that anybody from a beginner to the most seasoned breeder can benefit from.

[@OG_VeniVidiVici]

Great video. It’s crazy how many misconceptions there STILL are many years after people like you guys have been trying hard to inform the general population. I’m starting to think that, although it isn’t rocket science, it’s not necessarily something most people just pick up on. Peace and love man! Thanks for this one.

[@heyhey8554]

Can't wait to hear the latest and greatest from these guys, keep up the good work Shango

[@prescribedburn1068]

CSI has some killer fems. Got the Yellow Snow and she is vigorous af. Great flavor too. 🍻 great episode. Looks like we'll have to try Chimera too this year. He's had some great episodes on here. Thanks for sharing!

[@KushByTheBush]

Have an sfv run going. I miss straight up old school Kush. Going to strictly in breed to til I can find that true smell and taste. And lock it in forever. First run at breeding anything. This podcast honestly is gold , thanks guys

[@bovineexcrement8635]

right on, I'm working NL5, going to pop 12 in witch CSI Humboldt is my daddy,, I hope the herms don't come out 🙄

[@stephenwweber]

❤ great show thank you guys 👍

[@highnoon3156]

Thanks for the upload, theses guys are great!

[@Derty_the_grower]

Big up Ryan Lee, learned so much from the guy (and Mark Scialdone) The OG Hash church gang is already in here, heheh. Thanks for the Sunday Content Shango

[@chimera2518]

Much love Derty :)

[@MRFUCR]

DERTY

[@whatthehell406]

Great episode and two great breeders full of knowledge.👍🔥🔥🔥

[@TheCfrazier]

Here we gooooo! #CSI #TKs1

[@chopperblues11able]

Great one any time you can get nspecta on here talking I am listing.

[@williamcalhoun7841]

Very awesome set up thank you for sharing! What sensors do you use to see moisture content?

[@harlanfluker618]

Awesome I remember Chimera from the early 2000’s on the forums💪🏾

[@JesseJames83]

11:01 great insight 👍

[@Microbe-Tea]

Hey Shango sorry I haven't been saying hey like I used to, but glad to always see your work with great shows such as this I'm sure will be with these two, and the topic at hand. Hope you, and yours are well out there on VI, and I'll try to stay in better contact!

[@ShangoLos]

Hey there. Thanks for dropping by. Nice to see ya!

[@MrPuromen]

Hello! I loved the podcast, there is a place when u can find it transcripted ? Thank you!

[@mauricecalliss1303]

I believe that can target and or single out eachother as to who recieves what pollen and from who.

[@OG_VeniVidiVici]

1:18:00 s1 x s1 is the same as f2xf2 which is f3. Because an s1 is an f2 in and of itself. Remember f just stands for filial generation. Which literally just means next generation of a son or daughter. So whether it’s feminized, selfed, or regular, the filial generations are still the same even though the method used to get there are different and have different gene pools. So to clarify, f1 means literally first generations of 2 parents. F2 means the second generation coming from those two parents. And etc etc. if gorilla glue is the f1 of a cross, then gorilla glue x gorilla glue are an f2 whether it was selfed or sister sister or sister brother. Think of selfing as having twins breeding, it’s just a lot more closer to the one gene pool then say sister sister.

[@kingbling850]

Gnome IS FIRE! Cutting Edge

[@taoist42]

Worlds are colliding!

[@KristosMenfes]

n1-2-3, and wut is true sensi?

[@TheRealSimSalaBim]

So S1 seeds are made from pollinating the same plant or a clone of itself? Is there a difference when pollinating the same strain but two different seeds?

[@ShangoLos]

Your answer is in this episode where the same guest, Ryan Lee, explains in detail. Thanks for listening! www.shapingfire.com/podcast-feed/episode-64-feminized-seeds-and-female-only-breeding-with-guest-ryan-lee

[@randomstranger2472]

S1 is self- self. F2, F3... ect is sister- sister or sister- brother. So yes the resulting phenotypic expressions are different.

[@JesseJames83]

1:11:20 I don't publicly support this idea, but it'd be a lot cooler if you did.

[@richmilhoan]

@shango Los can u self a male and breed just male by reversing the male. Is this possible

[@ShangoLos]

Sure. It is possible. I have not done it though.

[@OG_VeniVidiVici]

According to the punnet square, you have 75% chance of getting a male, and 25% of getting a female. XY x XY give you and XX, 2 XY, and one YY. At least in theory and I’m curious to what a YY male would look like.

[@deusizrwild]

i have a strain that came from S1 seeds but I'm looking to find the absolute finest expression Can I selfie this strain and do a 300 seed hunt

[@randomstranger2472]

You can self any strain, but every self creates maximal amount of inbreeding depression

[@deusizrwild]

what's inbreeding depression

[@FoulBundy]

Then you'd just outcross or backcross to re-introduce that vigor (if depression occurs). @@deusizrwild

[@GrowMigo]

Pissing in the wind

[@OG_VeniVidiVici]

@@deusizrwildthe loss of vigor and increased potential for undesirable traits to show up in the progeny (bext generation)

[@raymondgetz4866]

Ill have to save you for work day in my class room when I don t have time to view things its all good.

[@ryanburns9596]

Kk I

[@ryanburns9596]

Kk

[@KristosMenfes]

ne pink kush? ne1?

[@TheDJBay]

Broad leaf x narrow leaf viggy

[@brandonsturdifen8321]

28:00

[@REDNECKROOTS]

S1 are basically a f2.

[@randomstranger2472]

No. F2's are less homozygous than S1's

[@GrowMigo]

@@randomstranger2472s1’s are hermy seeds

[@GrowMigo]

F1’s are regular and S1’s are herms

[@REDNECKROOTS]

@@GrowMigo omg. Nevermind.

[@GrowMigo]

@@REDNECKROOTS look for the nanners with powder inside

[@robohg9917]

I think Ryan is a lil wrong about self-ing not being much work...

[@OG_VeniVidiVici]

He didn’t say it isn’t work, it’s not much breeding. Which is true, and Caleb said it as well.

[@JohnathanLee8702]

Awesome stuff dudes thanks for everything!!! I've got some landraces from South Africa I was interested in getting me some different strains of pollen in bags from California to Virginia when it all becomes legal to ship. Would be so cool to take several pollen bags & put them on one plant like in another podcast you guys made cool stuff! Any info I've got several killer strains that would be awesome to start crossing and popping different new strains. Thanks for any help! 😎☀️🪴🌲🌲🌲