Twilight Imperium 4: Prophecy of Kings - Quick Review

[@FiLtheThriL]

I would watch the hell out of a long edited playthrough with occasional confessionals. I believe in you guys. I know what I'm asking. I believe in you.

[@Shelfside]

oh my goodness. That would be insane. It has been my dream to get that done one day, but not sure how many hours, batteries, and SD cards that would take :D -Ashton

[@FiLtheThriL]

@@Shelfside its legitimately a season of TV. Each turn could be an episode. You're my only hope.

[@FiLtheThriL]

Maybe launch it as a kickstarter or something similar.

[@ianmcclellan7269]

I'd fly in if you needed another player ;)

[@Shelfside]

@@FiLtheThriL ahaha, not a bad idea x)

[@ianmcclellan7269]

❤️ Once you're used to it (i.e 2-3 games with PoK), you can't ever go back. I'm glad you guys tried it and had fun. It does make teaching TI slightly more complex, and rounds last a bit longer, but points are typically a little easier to acquire, meaning fewer total rounds of play. Maybe at most one extra hour of time per game on average, but totally worth it imo.

[@Shelfside]

The one extra hour does sound about right, will have to see how future sessions go! At this point, I am very lucky that all of our regular TI4 rotation has played base game countless times (and even some of TI3!), so the teaching won't be too much of an issue in the near future. Cheers! -Ashton

[@Vashyyk]

@@Shelfside I highly recommend taking a look at the TI discord, and even consider looking at playing over table top simulator on occasion. Out of all the community made modes for table top sim, the TI mod is exceptional. Ease of setup, ease of managing combat and other fussier parts of TI means you spend less time waiting for two players to throw their death balls at eachother. One of the bonus' of playing over TTS is the ability to split games up, easily saving them and coming back to them the following week. It helps scratch that itch when you can't always get your pals at the table. I'd say all your valid issues with how overwhelming the game can be with PoK, will diminish substantially once you get a few games under your belt. But once you play PoK you'll never want to go back. Solid review though!

[@Shelfside]

@@Vashyyk hey cheers man! I actually know a guy who plays every wednesday, and the combat organization sounds like it'll shave off an plenty of time. We're currently in the situation where we have the people to get a game going, but so many other games we gotta play before PoK comes out again. Again, planning on having updated thoughts on PoK later this year! It may very well go back to 10/10 for me -Ashton

[@daikage]

I just played in an 8 player PoK TI4 game over the weekend. It was insane. Do recommend.

[@Shelfside]

holy smokes, who won? How long did it actually take? -Ashton

[@daikage]

@@Shelfside We played for about 10 hours, got 5 rounds in, and had to call it. We were playing an alliance game, so the Muaat and Argent team won. Xxcha and Nomad team were in second place.

[@Shelfside]

@@daikage sheeesh. Maybe one day for us, the politics is super exciting for sure -Ashton

[@AkmalGameAtion]

After going Prophecy of Kings, you can never go back. The agents, mechs and explorations just gels with the base game so smoothly. Not to mention the 7 new awesome factions! All kneel before the Mahact!

[@Shelfside]

the factions are super cool for sure! Gonna be playing another round in a couple of weeks, pretty darn excited :D -Ashton

[@AkmalGameAtion]

@@Shelfside gonna need a full video on that session or it didn't happen ;)

[@Shelfside]

@@AkmalGameAtion we'll get some cool footage at bare minimum ;)

[@eagle2896E28]

Good review Ashton. I just got into TI4 thanks to your video and this came out at the perfect time as I’ve been consuming as much TI content as possible.

[@graehamwatts]

Dude great video, probably the best review. I’ve watched so far of expansion, and I really liked how you did it with a fun flair, but still explain some of the great dynamics, and even got into some of the details about each faction

[@Shelfside]

Thanks man! We got to play it against since this time (we didn't get to finish) but it was awesome! -Ashton

[@thomasromanelli2561]

Loved your video and enthusiasm for TI4! BTW, saw Quantum on your shelf in the background... 👍

[@Shelfside]

cheers man! me and those space games ya know :D -Ashton

[@josephfinnegan7964]

I do hear that most games with experienced players tend to end a round sooner than they normally did with only the base game, so cutting out a round could make up for having the other rounds being a bit chunkier, in terms of time

[@sirhc8927]

You guys really love this Rex: Final days of an Empire spin off ;)

[@Shelfside]

me like not having the crazy rex fleet flying around bombing spaces :D -Ashton

[@BB-pn2qv]

"Quick" lol, well for TI I guess this is technically quick.

[@donbooger]

Great review, I havent played the expansion yet but you said what I was thinking. They are adding more to my biggest, longest game, I was kind of hoping it wasn't going to be that good..... but it turns out its good, really good. I will have to get it then, but my biggest and longest game just got better but it got bigger and longer.

[@Shelfside]

glad I could help man! again, don't feel pressured to go on and get this big box expansion, there's already so much in base game. But if you can make the commitment, man does it reach some crazy highs -Ashton

[@acerumble4991]

Have heard there are some issues with how well the new races mesh with the base ones, as well as how it changes a lot of fundamental TI4 mechanics rather than simply being 'more of a good thing'. Would be interested in somewhere down the road a revisit to this once opportunity comes back around to play thru with actual people in the same room a few times. Thanks for the entertaining and informative video!

[@Shelfside]

Cheers man! Definitely going to be revisiting this expansion in the near future -Ashton

[@tims3927]

Good points! I would also be very interested in further opinions down the line. i played pok about 8 ish times now and there is some additions, that add to the game and others, that i have some issues with, as for example in the heroes, in being very very chaotic and impactul in an otherwise quite strategic game and some balance issues. just curious to here other opinions on it. Great review video again btw :)

[@arcanitejedi]

Excellent review. Much more balanced and close to 'objective' overview of the expansion than the recent shut up and sit down review. Think you guys really understood who this is for and what it does to the base game.

[@RaK0]

After playing with the expansion I could never go back. And even with its heavy price tag I would recommend this to anyone. Buy it, learn it, teach it, play it from the first match on. I started with TI4 and although I liked it very much I felt that the game was lacking in some parts. The expansion with its exploration mechanic, legendary planets and the new leader abilities fixed almost every issue I had. Contrary to first assumptions the game does not even last longer because it usually it takes a round or two less than before to reach 10VP thanks to the new powers. So playing an epic 14 points match is now more achievable than before. The only real limiting factor now is table space. If you can manage that, this game becomes something truly special. My last round was in November last year. My next is going to be im February. And I'm already excited about it as if it was tomorrow.

[@hunter4hire]

6:16 it makes thematic sense if you watched some, mech based, anime. The mechs stand on the ships firing at enemies, and the enemy pilots target them as if they were turrets.

[@eriksjogren800]

Thank you for the video

[@tigerpjm]

I only ever played PoK, so your review of TI as an "easy" game to learn made me feel a bit like I was stupid. But it was all PoK's fault!

[@n.riffer]

You know what the funny thing? All people complaining about TI and the 7+ hours of playtime But if you do a easy peacy Boardgame-sunday with friend and you play a little bit of Dominion and Quarks, or maybe Magic the Gathering, you will sit on the table for 7 hours too. 🤷‍♂️🤷‍♂️🤷‍♂️🤷‍♂️🤷‍♂️soooo🤷‍♂️🤷‍♂️🤷‍♂️🤷‍♂️🤷‍♂️

[@Shelfside]

The complaints also come from the game just being so big in general. Takes more time to setup, to teach, and to learn compared to say Dominion or Quarks. Also, some people just don't like long games ahaha -Ashton

[@SilentNSly]

Ooo… An Aborec-Nomad alliance sounds fun to try

[@fugasx]

You need to dream big, how about a nomad-yin alliance, free van hauge to terrorize the galaxy.

[@n.riffer]

We have that feeling too... its feels now quite too big for some resons for my groupe... but we cant go back now... thats why some people of my groupe dont want to play anymore TI 🥲

[@tahubob]

Thanks for your honest view, how many plays of base TI4 would you recommend playing before trying the expansion? And how hard are the two to separate back into their boxes?

[@Shelfside]

I would recommend at least 5 plays or so. There's SO MUCH content in base game that you don't even need to come close to this expansion for many years, especially considering that it takes quite a bit of time to schedule TI4 plays. So you got at least 40+ hrs on your hands, and hell, if you want to try every faction just ONCE, more like 100+ hrs. The two are pretty darn difficult for at least us to separate back into their boxes, but everything that is PoK is marked decently well, so you could always just not play with faction cards that are PoK specific. The trickiest part there is probably separating the agendas, politics, technologies, action cards, and planets. For leaders and the new promissory notes, you could just have them tucked away in their own faction plastic bags and say you're not using it during a base TI4 playthrough. Hope this helped! -Ashton

[@DavidC-zr2pn]

With so many heavy games you are reviewing, do you have plans to do one for an 18xx game? I think the genre would benefit from your style of reviews. I’m happy to teach if you want to learn how to play.

[@Shelfside]

ahaha, great ask! One of my friends is constantly begging me to play it with him. I'll add it to the list, we do want to cover more popular games first, like blood rage, scythe, etc. that we haven't gotten to in the pandemic! -Ashton

[@DavidC-zr2pn]

@@Shelfside No problem. The offer is always on the table if you want to get a game. I found the rules much easier to learn that many other heavy games.

[@thesaintjimmy88]

I just got my copy of TI4 two days ago and I don't think expanding it would be responsible XD but man does it look cool!

[@Shelfside]

ahaha, pace yourself accordingly with the TI4 man! You got a lot of awesome in your future though -Ashton

[@pranefuji]

Thanks for giving it a review was curious about this one.

[@Shelfside]

cheers! hope this helped inform you :D -Ashton

[@BB-pn2qv]

Damn good "quick" review though

[@werekill]

Fantastic review! I've picked up the base game and am very excited to play it soon; I'm in the planning stages with friends now. Out of curiosity, what would you guys say is the minimum table space for a 6 player game of TI4? I'm looking at either building a table topper or getting a new table. It'll be a non-board game table; I was shopping for a new table regardless of TI4 lol.

[@n.riffer]

Puhh... i really dont know anymore... a friend of mine had a table for 8 pers. Literally 2meters long, but a little bit too small in the brightnes. We played with expansion and 7 people... we had quite enouth space on the table, but also we moved the player score and Missioncards away to another table ':)

[@Orlandofurioso95]

In true TI4 tradition, the expansion alone has more cards and plastic than two average boardgames combined

[@Shelfside]

amen, it also takes a really long time to organize everything :3 -Ashton

[@royalsapphire1196]

Really Great review ashton. If you ever do want to play an 8 player game I’ll catch a flight out to CA 😛

[@Shelfside]

ahaha appreciate it x) -Ashton

[@Pittigpiertje]

You guys ever feel like reviewing Dune imperium? I had preorderd it but due to the pandemic it's still sadly sat on my shelf unplayed... I must life it vigorously through others.

[@Shelfside]

yo! It's not a big priority for us, since our group is not that much into Dune as an IP, and I've been kind of weaning off of it too lately. We may have some other dune stuff in the future though ;) -Ashton

[@Pittigpiertje]

@@Shelfside Aight! Thanks for the response man, appreciate your videos and the interaction

[@Kaxcer]

Nice I would like to see you can choose your own hero and commander during the game out of the pool

[@D3m0n7x]

im doing my birthday party in a months time and i think playing Ti with 8 people sounds just like what i wanna do

[@Shelfside]

Super fun! I did a 7P game on my birthday of PoK, but 2 of the people were newcomers so we had them be on the same team. 8 players is the next step :) -Ashton

[@35raksO]

I hope we get a "quick" review like this for Disney Villainous 🤭

[@Shelfside]

gaaaah! Disney Villainous! I haven't forgotten! -Ashton

[@cobtyrannon2479]

One good thing is, you have 7+ hours to wrap your head around whats going on at the table.

[@iconthe7324]

Can you guys review aeronautical imperialis?

[@MirkoCano]

Just discovered your channel, guys, you are awesome! As for TI, I have TI4 unplayed, cause you know, pandemic stuff, and I was considering the expansion. However, I think you're right that it brings a lot of stuff and it will be probably directed to those who have played the base game a lot and need more variety. For the rest of us, it's an expensive addition that won't pay off. Better spend those bucks on a new game!

[@Shelfside]

totally with ya! It's not a cheap expansion by any means, so save your cash for if you REALLY need it :D -Ashton

[@wrath231]

What an awesome expansion 😀

[@EcclesiastesLiker-py5ts]

This is great, you're like suasd but better! Subed.

[@lu7ky]

I want to be pink! Also that PoK Hangover!

[@Shelfside]

The pink just looks so hilarious on the board haha. The PoK hangover is real, can't wait for next game to see how I mess up lol -Ashton

[@SigurdBraathen]

So, when's the long review due?! =)

[@Shelfside]

ahaha we haven't even gotten to play it again :( -Ashton

[@Shelfside]

Let it be known I demand it constantly -Daniel

[@SigurdBraathen]

@@Shelfside : Tell Daniel to head over to Reddit and the Discord(s), then! Oy, where did my previous message go? - I fear it got deleted due to containing links.

[@chrishayhurst3005]

I'd love to have a go at this game but don't know enough gamers who would be up for it ...🤔 yet!

[@Shelfside]

best of luck! Start with base game for sure, no need to jump so far into the deep end with this big box :D Try even some shorter 3 player games if people are intimidated by the rules, and then work your player count way up (just note that the politics won't be that great at 3) -Ashton

[@wotrgames4024]

Tabletop simulator is your best bet :)

[@fightingkitchen7960]

Which dominion expantion should I get if I only get 3 I was thinking of seaside, prosparity, and renaissance.

[@Shelfside]

prosperity doesn't get recommended enough to me! Especially good if you like playing golds, because it introduces platinums as a type of currency, which are more expensive than provinces but just immediately make your hand good ahaha. I've also heard great things about dark ages. -Ashton

[@fightingkitchen7960]

@@Shelfside seaside and reaissance seem to be doing ok, what do you think about them

[@Shelfside]

@@fightingkitchen7960 hey! I don't know much on those ones, but they do say that the designer, Donald X, got much better at designing the expansions as time went on, so Renaissance is more enticing in that regard -Ashton

[@fightingkitchen7960]

@@Shelfside ok

[@frankle9617]

Ok I just bought Inis. Whatcha think?

[@sebastienvivas9319]

Fuck. I need this in my life.

[@schwamieboy1]

Helpful

[@joshuaregis4200]

Damn such a monster of a game

[@Shelfside]

it... really just sprawls all out on that table during playing, those extra small cards really add up -Ashton

[@proximitygames6656]

Yes

[@fightingkitchen7960]

Did you ever try sushi go party and space base They are both fun

[@Shelfside]

I've tried sushi go party! I think it is a marked improvement over the original sushi go, that got incredibly repetitive for me. Plus, the theme gets a lot of my friends excited to play -Ashton

[@fightingkitchen7960]

@@Shelfside yeah, sushi go party is pretty fun.

[@oliveronderisin5674]

Yeah I also like the base game better.

[@Shelfside]

cheers man, I'm looking to play it again as the holidays approach, but I would have to play essentially 2x TI4, one with the expansion, and one without, and man that's a lot of games and hard to schedule. Still a little apprehensive on PoK, many months later -Ashton

[@MichaelBomholt]

POK is too much, the added objectives and systems tiles are great, but hte new mechanics aren't worth the power creep and complexity creep.

[@geekworthy7938]

TI4: I don't know how to make a fun game! -Add more, add more, add more!!! Is there really a game in there, or is it really just disguised as a game. It's too much, too hard, near impossible for most to get enough people together and too long to be a game. It's just a money sink for component collectors.

[@Shelfside]

TI4 is so big and nuanced that if the mechanics aren't intuitive to you during a game, the more awesome part of the negotiation kind of falls apart. Even though the game is easy to learn for its size... its freaking huge anyways, and many many hours, so that size and length just aren't for everyone. So yeah, it is a very big, multilayered game, where TI4 was the most accessible I've ever seen TI, but having fun in that giant space opera is quite an asking task for many groups. Most people should stay away from PoK, ahaha, for how highly we rate it here. -Ashton

[@FiLtheThriL]

TI4 is the simplest version of TI for sure. I dont think its a very hard rule set at all tbh. The expansion does seem to cater to those fans that prefer more of a niche game that provides a buffet of fiddley bits TI3 + expansions offered. Great OPTIONAL expansion it seems.

[@cobtyrannon2479]

I disagree with everything you said. There is a lot of game in TI4. And more of the same stuff is exactly what i wanted from it. I never had problems finding players to play with. I get asked constantly when i host the next session. The bigger problem is to find a date suitable for everybody. And the rules, Special cases aside, are on the lower end of complexity compared to other expert games. So i honestly have no idea what you are talking about.

[@geekworthy7938]

@@cobtyrannon2479 lucky you

[@FiLtheThriL]

@@cobtyrannon2479 i miss having that reliable of a game group. I agree with you. The complexities have really been stripped away with TI4 which makes it a great vehicle for player driven complexities like negotiation, alliances, and even RP. It really is a best of both worlds game.

[@braydenb1581]

I wish they had a digital version of this game. Not tabme top

[@thegamesninja3119]

It is not a game, it is a cult! 🥷