Civilization: A New Dawn | Shelfside Review w/Terra Incognita Expansion

[@bobbyrogulski9340]

First 2 minutes is some of your most entertaining work thus far.

[@Wallach_a]

Agree

[@mrp4242]

Yes, well done.

[@Nortic111]

Dude, never stop these skits of yours, they're great! I hope the gentleman in the top hat makes a return, whether Civilization is involved or otherwise...

[@BoardGameGreeks]

This is the best intro I've ever seen in my life !

[@Supersly666]

That intro alone already deserves a thumbs up!

[@bwah9481]

Another impressive, in-depth and concise review. All great points! Thank you!

[@bwah9481]

Your skits kill me lol! I love them. Thanks for making board games reviews so fun to watch!

[@Shelfside]

ahaha thank you! More stuff coming :) -Ashton

[@Stevojay]

Really enjoying your reviews guys, just one thing I would love if you could add- alternate recommendations! “If you want a better game of this style/mechanic/theme try….” and so on. Thanks and keep up the great work!

[@Shelfside]

cheers! Definitely something we try to keep writing into things. We couldn't really find good comparisons for this game when making this review. If you want a real 4x, its gonna be a lot longer and a lot heavier. If you want a more balanced Euro, they don't quite get the civilization-ish vibe this game has. Will see if we can find sometjhing! -Ashton

[@LINNNNN2010]

I really enjoy the Pro & Con part. Really helps to see if the game is for you or not

[@Shelfside]

thank you! Hope it makes things clear -ashton

[@bernardorippe7024]

This is the best intro I had ever see for a boardgame review XD

[@Warrior_Whitten]

Thanks for the honesty. When looking at this game after it came out, it was hard not to notice the map not having production or trade like the first one did. Not knowing how cities would produce anything or gain science caused skepticism, but the control tokens were the real put off. Watching people play it was weird and it really didn’t look like a Sid Meier’s Civilization game. You all said the quiet parts out loud 🤣

[@NickJacksonusa]

We play this one quite a bit because there aren't many really good 5 player games. Was surprised with your criticisms and score. We actually thought that the base game was meh, but we love it with the expansion and it's additions

[@MuriloFlavioMoreira]

People who like the pc game is rather unlikely to aprove of this simplified concept.

[@177silas]

@@MuriloFlavioMoreira nah I really like the base game, and this board game as well. Sometimes eaven better than for example Clash of Cultures beacuse of its simplicity and lower gaming time.

[@Esauofisaac]

I actually found this review Googling about the Terra Incognita box quality. I had honestly thought I got some kind of cheaper print-on-demand version since I bought it years later. It's a damn cereal box.

[@Shelfside]

I was shocked opening it up. It almost tore! -Ashton

[@monoludico6166]

The intro was more than funny and phenomenal 🎉😅 Thanks. Great stuff!

[@VividSauce]

I cannot get over how funny the opening of this video is.

[@panoti4264]

Great review! Initially, I liked (loved) the game for its simplification, streamlining and shortness. But after a dozen of plays, I totally agree with your cons.

[@jamielehn6926]

19:25 - I don’t think you need to complete an objective in a card before anyone else completes the alternative objective. ?

[@Orthovandro]

The best intro. Incredible

[@LordDolor11]

While I agree with the point that the game, at the contrary of the PC game encourages being fast instead of slow and well thought development, I disagree with the overall opinion. This game has been my favorite and the favorite of my group for a While and we are actively waiting for a New expansion. Easely one of the most enjoyable games I have in my collection. 9/10 to me.

[@jedimackan2594]

This review has remind me that sometimes reviewers that I think have smilar taste as me - they still can have completely different opinion about one or two titles... but realy copletely. For me the game is 7/10! With small children, work and less time for yourself - a civilization game than I can finish with my wife in about 1h is a bargin! Never expected so low notes from you!... Well now I am very very courious how you will review one of my feavorite civilization game Clash of Cultures... :D Greetings from Poland!

[@Shelfside]

ahaha no problemo! That's the interesting thing about board game enjoyment, its so subjective. We'll hopefully get to CoC one day! -Ashton

[@Berndr]

I agree... I was looking forward to trying this game, but sadly all things they said that are bad with this game made sense and are well explained why ...

[@Gyftomancer]

Obviously you are a SidM'Civ (2010) fan. I disagree with many things that you said, and make me wonder how much have you played the game, but.... I can't believe that you found such a big random factor in battles. You only roll a d6 and you add big combat bonuses as the game proceeds. There is a victory condition that you get if you win a battle by having a 15 combat result. And you can get even more than this. So a d6 is a CON of the game? I don't think so.. As for the barbarians, there are various ways to avoid or kill them and even force them never to respawn again. And you call this a CON of the game? As for the 1st player advantage: everybody has the same number of rounds before game ends. Everyone decides on the spot on the table that will put a neutral fort. Plus anyone can achieve the same VP condition as the 1st player. I don't see any advantage. Moreover, I agree that this game is all about the objectives but I think you made this review having in mind Cid M' Civ (2010) where there is a lot of war. Civ: A new dawn is not a civ game with war, only slightly in order to interrupt opponents' plans. But this in not a CON, it's rather a preference, right?

[@jonah3985]

No way dude. I literally check your channel yesterday for this review to see how you felt about AND+TI compared to your true love (original FFG Civ) because I have a chance to snag both for a good deal ($50 together). I literally placed the order like four or five hours ago, not knowing you produced this. Weeeeird! Watching now! EDIT: Wow, I guess you just saved me $50? Damn, brutal... *Order Canceled* :(.

[@Shelfside]

whoa, that's crazy! Hey, if its not for ya, it will save you the money and time of reading the rules. Cheers! -Ashton

[@Gauweezy]

The intro is just so good... Hahahah keep it up boys!

[@Jorn2u]

Thanks for the honest opinion and clearly explaining it. Very nice!

[@evandercaldwell9993]

Maybe you have good house rules for it that you could share!! 😀 (but the way it looks, it's just too screwed to be saved in any way!! Sad because I love civilisation games 😖) Great review, Thank You, your channel will blow up in the coming years, your reviews are extensive, detailed and top notch!!! Hats off to you my friends!!! 💪🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥 (And your humour is just too hilarious!! 😂)

[@Shelfside]

cheers mate! We think the base game has more merit for sure. But for more civ experiences, clash of cultures, Civ 2010, or even 7 wonders might do the trick! -Ashton

[@IndianaGeologist]

Jesus, that intro was amazing

[@dougcerulli8826]

Thanks for this in depth review. What are your favorite civ board games?

[@Shelfside]

Cheers! So far nothing has quite scratched the itch like Sid Meier's Civilization 2010, although DAniel LOVES Clash of cultures. For something small and condensed, 7 wonders still works for us -Ashton

[@loarnchilcote9895]

Omg thank you guys for your work!

[@picivyvortac2641]

You should play clash of cultures. It's the real civ experience and is about 2.5 hours long. Great game.

[@Shelfside]

we have that in the queue! -Ashton

[@rown2k4]

Damn! Was the intro a long ProzD skit?

[@SeanPS]

I got a small modular tacklebox to use piece storage, i was able to fit every component inside and then fit the tacklebox inside the box. was able to fit everything including the expansion all into the base box.

[@truce11]

Woah that intro was so good.

[@closedchill5243]

Awesome review. I think my favorite Civ board game is still the first one by Eagle Games. Which just goes to show, nobody has really made a strong Civ board game yet. It feels like they do a new one with each new PC game so I expect another one with Civ 7 art in a few years. As for review suggestions, I still put forward High Frontier for All. >:D

[@Shelfside]

We definitely love the 2010 FFG Civ tho, it's definitely a strong civ board game! -Daniel

[@BoardGameGreeks]

i get the personal scores. the recommender why is so low? despite me loving this game the collective opinion for this game is not that bad. On the contrary the core box has the same score as the old civ and the terra incognita has the same score as the best exp. of the old civ. With that said i think that the recommender score is a bad Ad for supposed Objectivity.

[@keanus9871]

There really isn't a way to account for turn order? That's kind of amazing, especially in a race-type game.

[@Shelfside]

very strange! very very strange -Ashton

[@joncarr5545]

Best video I’ve seen all year!

[@Shelfside]

awesome to hear! More stuff coming :) -Ashton

[@matthewpeterson3926]

I search and saw you guys you unboxed through the ages but I’ve never heard you guys talk about it. I’d like to hear your thoughts on it.

[@Shelfside]

for sure! Only played once on BGA, and was VERY buggy then. Hopefully we can give it a go in person one day -Ashton

[@destrio]

I'm so glad I was able to find a nice used copy of FFG's 2010 version with both expansions. Now I just need to get it to the table...

[@TheVisualante]

Good luck bro, but once you do get it there so long as everyone is open minded you’ll have an absolute blast

[@squishybuspr]

I love the gun fighting at the top of video… most civilized.

[@stuartshannon8561]

I agree and that’s why I love the new Clash of Cultures edition. It does Tec and fighting well. You should check it out if you haven’t already.

[@Shelfside]

Ashton hasn't gotten around to playing it but I personally like Clash a lot! -Daniel

[@PBMatthews254]

Takes on mosaic? I know its completely different but just curious. Ive purchased it for a great price and im excited to get it to the table. At this point all i have is 7 wonders for any civ themed games and just wanted something a bit more in depth but not be 3 hrs or more per game.

[@Animo-XXX]

Hi. So how's Mosaic now😊?

[@CyborgHyperdrive]

Loved the intro 😂

[@wayner396]

Hahahaha best skit ever. Please keep this up. The outfits, voices, guns, and cigarettes in the ears had me rolling. Love the looking at the camera every time you say civilization... thanks for the laughs

[@TheMelon9106]

That beginning is hilarious 😂😂😂

[@joaobarbosa576]

Great video and review, congratulations! One question for me, what is your favorite civilization board game so far? Thank you

[@Shelfside]

thank you! For Daniel and I, our favorite civilization is still Sid Meier's Civ (2010), but we haven't played too many civ games here! -Ashton

[@alannash2778]

Amazing intro! I am looking forward to hearing your thoughts on The Marauder Expansion for Root :)

[@Shelfside]

Cheers! We got a video in the works :) -Ashton

[@viktorkm]

Have you guys played any of the Pax games? (Pax Renaissance 2nd ed, Pax Porfiriana, Pax Pamir end ed). Would love to hear your thoughts on them. I vote for Pax Ren, altough it is said to be the most advanced...

[@Shelfside]

I've played Pax pamir 2nd ed on TTS, will need to give it another go one day! -Ashton

[@ilqrd.6608]

Harsh, but I respect it. Wish the people who claim this expansion lifts the hame to a 9/10 could chime in and provide a different view. But unfortunately there hasn’t been enough coverage on this game+expansion in general

[@Shelfside]

cheers, we were honestly pretty surprised by our conclusion too. I'm all ears to hear what other people have to say! -Ashton

[@maykelmichiels8073]

Thank you for this! 😊

[@Warrior_Whitten]

Clash of cultures?

[@Shelfside]

haha. Daniel likes it. So maybe content one day? -Ashton

[@Warrior_Whitten]

@@Shelfside Ashton, you’ve been vocal about liking Civ so much. I’d be a bit surprised if you didn’t like CoC as much. CoC feels more like the video game in my OP because of the happiness mechanic, amongst other things. It’s probably more in depth than Civ the board game, but you also like TI4 so, hopefully you’ll like it.

[@Shelfside]

@@Warrior_Whitten My concern is that from what I've heard, it's gonna be a nightmare to keep track of in real life. But we will see! -Ashton

[@Warrior_Whitten]

@@Shelfside Lol, that fair. You just need practice. Trust Daniel to help you out 🤣

[@davidpackman2733]

tell us how you really feel about this game.

[@chrishollandsworth4455]

This skit is the best one yet keep it up

[@ShunyValdez]

1:50 Now that's a civilized way to end the intro. Only thing missing is a nuke, but we're not barbarians....

[@jwspiker]

wow, you guys and Joel Eddy see this game so differently.

[@anthonyz1164]

You guys deserve more views

[@Shelfside]

thank you! We got more stuff coming all the time :) -Ashton

[@3alanking38]

very sweaty

[@findoutthehardway]

I live for these absurd intros

[@tzera_rhuon]

I’d my eye on this for a while as I was in the mood for a civ-based game, in the end I opted for Imperium Classics/Legends (Civ + Deckbuilding). Based on your review I’m confident in my choice.

[@Shelfside]

awesome! I was thinking of grabbing imperium classics/legends as well too, keep seeing it in my local store. How's the replayability on it though? -Ashton

[@tzera_rhuon]

@@Shelfside There's 8 nations per box that play very differently, as each has their own dynasty deck and advancements, as well as preferred objectives which somewhat mirror their irl histoical exploits; as it is a deck-builder there is also an open market to draft from, so that further adds variance. There is also a solo mode with 6 difficulties. Mechanically, every time your deck is cycled, a card from the dynasty deck (if a barbarian state) or advancements (if an empire) is added in to your draw deck, signififying your nation's development. The ratios of these side decks are different for each nation, meaning each become empires at different rates (or in the case of Vikings, they never become an empire at all). Fully advancing your nation is one of the win conditions; another is exhausting a 'fame' deck in the market, which certain nations excell at;, still more, certain nations in the Legends box have their own interesting win condition (Arthurians are searching for the holy grail, Utopians are searching for Shangri la, Atlantis is struggling to not completely sink). Collapsing the world into chaos is also a viable win condition, particularly for the Celts (as represented by 'unrest' cards). If I were to identify a potential negative, the game can run very long, specifically when learning how to play each nation well. It doesn't necessary *feel* long whilst playing, however looking at the clock to see 3h have past is not uncommon (solo vs bots run much quicker, 60-90m). Playtime is mitigated with experience and knowledge, however if we're pressed for time we'll use a chess clock to balance turns lol.

[@Shelfside]

@@tzera_rhuon Thanks for sharing and sounds really cool! The time length is definitely a bit of a cincher for me though, and will hold off of it then -Ashton

[@tzera_rhuon]

@@Shelfside Optimally I'd budget one hour per player (our group is three, hence 3h), so whilst the game can support 4 players, 8 with both boxes I guess, it's best at 2-player counts.

[@Shelfside]

@@tzera_rhuon noted, thank you! -Ashton

[@mariobasketball30]

You could have pointed to the 2K in the bottom right corner of the box and ended the video.

[@ag806]

Never heard of your channel before. Just watched the first two minutes and now I'm subscribed. And yes, Civ New Dawn needs Terra Incognita. Such a big difference without the expansion.

[@marioabadfernandezdelacigo8893]

Funny, because the very thing you complain about (having to wait for a focus card to get stronger in order to, say, attack a fort) can be mitigated by the one other thing you critizise, that is, governments. IMHO, governments offer more flexibility in that sense. Very nice review!!!!

[@Shelfside]

In our experience it still gets outpaced by people spamming other actions that rush towards objectives when they slap their own government tokens on them, and once they do accomplish them attacking no longer takes away their goal achievement. On top of that, it's pretty easy to get stuck on a control point wall while attacking and end up leaving armies on a low defense terrain, which is easily defeated by the defender doing an army movement just to progress their focus row, which really isn't helped by the fact that players are decently far apart from each other so getting set back 2-3 turns of moving by just 1 action is terrible tempo lol -Daniel

[@spywannabe]

Sorry bc i dont understand but...... Are there a variety of attacking units or just a little ......thing?

[@Shelfside]

Just the little flag thing -Daniel

[@spywannabe]

@@Shelfside ehhhhh can it be different units tho or just.... Flag?

[@Shelfside]

@@spywannabe Just the flag haha, though the flag's strength can be improved with upgraded tech and trade goods -Daniel

[@spywannabe]

@@Shelfside thanks(also you make realy good videos!)!

[@xtro9296]

This bloke’s video popped up and I have just watched the first 2 minutes and now I’m subscribed.

[@Shelfside]

ahaha thank you! Glad ya liked the intro :) -Ashton

[@0Letten0]

That intro made me subscribe

[@Shelfside]

aahaha cheers, fun stuff to make! -Ashton

[@FalkFlak]

The thing you mostly seem to criticise is the aspect the game wants you to do: race for the objectives. It excels in this regard so I cannot see a contra here whatsoever. The victory conditions garantee not every game is about a single strategy of building up and stomping your opponent if that's what you were looking for. Most other arguments seem fair. It does feel a bit more abstract and it is a horror to start with base game AND Incognita. The swingyness is not a problem to me as it fits the Sid Meyer's Video game (if you've played it) and there are so many options you can mitigate your problems (you attack Barbarian on Mountains? Lol what?). Yes you can lose a fort here fast, .. uh I don't see a problem there. Wouldn't the game took 2 hours but instead 6-8 hours like the OTHER Civ contenders this indeed would be a bigger problem. But it's fast, dynamic and don't halts to a grind like heavier Civs (like the 2010 one, for example). On our first play session with the base game we played it 2 times in a row!

[@Shelfside]

But the objective racing here is done poorly since games can be under an hour from the 1st player doing fort>wonders>misc 4th objective and can't be reasonably stopped by other players. -Daniel

[@FalkFlak]

I can see that happening. Although, the benefit of randomness is there is always a chance to turn the tide. It's very difficult (impossible?) to have a game with a deterministic puzzle and that also gives you a chance to win and lose. You can stop playing if you see a good starting position for your opponent.. OR you can play on and just draw a landscape tile that turns the game upside down. If the criticism is that CivAnD is not a deterministic puzzle, the yes, it isn't. The question is, does it achieve what it wants to do. Also, 1hr for a light Civ game is awesome, I'd say. My biggest complain is the rules are too convoluted for the shallow depth it offers.

[@kasaklubdemola8625]

Any film about CoC - why it's so weak? ;) ;)

[@jamielehn6926]

Barbarians are a pain - but if you are near them - you need to think about upgrading your military fast and do something about it.

Can we haz Through the Ages review now? :3

[@David-jv3ws]

Please review Obsession. Return of the gentlemen

[@EfrainRiveraJunior]

Great opening!

[@MathieuVIII]

Yeah, I was pretty disappointed. But then again, the 2010 Civilization is my favorite game, so I didn't expect this one to replace it anyway.

[@dracocoinguard1320]

You, Sir, entertain me have a like, and this comment. i also find your videos visually appealing and informative, and will likely rely on them in the future, so have my subscription to. Ho ho ho!

[@zacrussell609]

What a whirlwind of emotion and wanting to buy a game i just went though haha

[@rochedl]

I wonder if this game should have been solo only, I have played the base game a couple of times and found it ok, not great, but I only play solo, so that will color my view. Great video and wonderful opening skit :) looking forward to the next videos!

[@tamasnemeth7659]

Nice review :) lets go with gwt 2nd edition :)

[@bossman4799]

I always wondered about picking up this game but I have Civ 2010 with the Fame and a fortune expansion for 5 players so I think it’ll be a pass.

[@IslanKleinknecht]

So .... does this mean Clash of Cultures is next? ^.^

[@Shelfside]

in time... in time.

[@wedgeex]

Daniel is my spirit animal.

[@EfrainRiveraJunior]

Huge, Mega, Super Dooper, Gargantuan *PASS!*

[@Shelfside]

ahaha glad we could help :) -Ashton

[@Tsukiyotsubasa]

You should make a youtube short out of that intro skit.

[@armageddon_gaming]

I skipped the how to play part because I already own and played this game multiple times. While I enjoy the game, I did find myself wanting something more like the video game, and that's when I decided to go on ebay and by the 2002 board game. There is just so much about the 2010 version that pushed me away such as (in my own opinion) unnecessary complexity, how many parts are included, lack of availability, and time investment required

[@hamzad5061]

Cool intro 😎

[@Shelfside]

thank you! More stuff coming :) -ashton

[@Castorshells]

Sounds like I should trade in my New Dawn for the used copy of the other Civ at my store here.

[@Shelfside]

that sounds like a great idea! Not sure how much cash you'll have to pay to make up the difference in value? -Ashton

[@DeyaViews]

24:07 "Also how many times are games gonna refer to communism as a type of government? It refers to [a] stateless society." Hard agree! Same pet peeve for me. Loved the opening skit, that's a new level of comedy y'all achieved! Great analysis on pros and cons as usual. Cheers, lads

[@Shelfside]

thank you! More stuff coming. I have to note that the original 2010 civ also has communism as a type of govenrment bahaha -Ashton

[@razzendahcuben]

Because that's not how communism functions in practice. So good on Civ for making a game based in reality, not theory.

[@alannash2778]

You could most definitely have a communist state. Imagine a society where the eternal government (which would have unalterable edicts and one party, aka undemocratic) controls all aspects of the political and economic systems. This would mean that there could be no personal property, money, or class systems (so also no racism) for its citizens. Since there are no historical or modern examples of this on earth, it can easy to think this is not possible but that is a fallacy. If you are thinking what I've described sounds like socialism, you're right. The key difference between a communist state and a socialist one though, is that in the latter, citizens can own private property (and therefore a class-like system will still exist) and the government is democratically elected and thus alterable depending on the will of the people, the challenges of the day, etc.

[@BreezingThrou]

Resort to just luck. One of the only luck games I and vast majority here loves. Quacks of Quedlinburg.

[@Shelfside]

Need to review that one day! Keep getting suggested it. -Ashton

[@Marky_X]

Oh... *popcorn intensifies* Time to watch EDIT I guess I was right when I said it would likely not cater to people looking for the PC experience.

[@Shelfside]

for sure! We have to knock it for being labeled as Sid Meier's Civilization after all :) Cheers! -Ashton

[@casey9917]

Jolly good show Chaps

[@ajeba98]

WOOOOOOOOH!

[@rousseausp]

I love you guys

[@ghodan77]

Clash of Cultures: Monumental Edition, when?

[@Shelfside]

ohhh boy. don't do this to me

[@federicodecesco1926]

Another great review. I don't particularly like the classic CIVS either (for the genre, Clash of cultures remains by far the best for me), but that was just an inelegant and bloated game, this is a mechanical disaster. Cheers, as usual, for having analyzed so well, many designers would have a lot to learn. Also that intro skit :) :) :) ....

[@l1zard7]

Dude thats a white wine glas.

[@MichaelBomholt]

2010 civ is great

[@chimster1234]

Lol nicely done guys!

[@kosterix123]

All fine and dandy but C:AnD is heavily dependent on player group. When nobody trusts each other, the Scythia player wins on turn 1. You need to coordinate to keep Scythia in check, carving out your Civ in some corner doesn’t work. And yes this happened and we never played it again. So remove Scythia from the box...

[@Federick666]

based, great review, love your content

[@tonybowers9490]

Good Gravy. That intro was WAY over the top. I mean, it's a board game. You know, boring stuff. Just kidding. The intro was most excellent!

[@hatchimmmmm]

Playing the game for the fifth time with 4players , it's a good game not a 3/10

LOL guys that intro hahahaha.

[@Shelfside]

ahaha thanks :) -ashton

[@impi7685]

33:01 That’s the Hungarian Parliament. Just call it this way next time. Cheers

[@Shelfside]

aaah, TIL! Will do -Ashton

[@TheActivetrin]

Damn you guys destroyed this game. Next one you should do is clash of cultures monumental edition.