Shenmue 70 Man Battle speedrun in

[@RichardPayne5]

This run has now been bested! 👊The new World Record is 2:25.56! 🥋 You can find it on my channel here → kzbin.info/www/bejne/nWq8nX6bidiEgZo

[@JeeblyWBush]

God damn this is crazy to watch

[@RichardPayne5]

💪😁

[@ArmBreakFire1234]

🔥This Most Great Speedrun, Great to watch. My list favorite Run.. No.1 2:33.70 No.2 2:32.90 No.3 2:29.53 No.4 2:25.56 No.5 2:26.23 So far, this is the most OP🔥

[@RichardPayne5]

Oh really?! Thanks buddy, means a lot! 💘I can't deny this run is a personal favorite of mine too, mainly from an emotional point of view. I remember screaming in happiness like a child when I got it just a year ago. 😂 Karl's 2:29 is probably my favorite run from his records (first sub 2:30 ever performed, plus epic fighting against the bosses), though I can't say I have an exact list in mind. I just enjoy all runs unconditionally, especially considering when they were achieved and the story behind them. In fact, 2:53 by afterblue is also one of favorites for this very reason, because it was THE run that truly made me get into the 70 Man Battle speedrunning. I owe a lot to him and Kenjito Master for shaping my love for the series. 🙇‍♂

[@ArmBreakFire1234]

@@RichardPayne5 LOL... screaming like a child😂😂 this made my day.. But anyway you two Are legends, And previous legends like you said that, Afterblue, kenjito master? And who else.. when I visited Thatsmekarl's channel It turned out that he only Played 8 Months ago, And did Speedrun, and why do you need so many years? Is that Difficult?

[@RichardPayne5]

​@@ArmBreakFire1234 One other player I wish we knew more about is a Japanese guy called “Kazemaru”. He was on top of most of the official Shenmue Passport leaderboards (the one hosted by SEGA in the early 2000s), boasting a time of 2:56 for the 70 Man Battle, a world record which stood until late 2019! I’d love to learn more about him, find about if he’s still passionate about Shenmue, how he used to play the 70 Man Battle back in the day etc., but could not find a single trace of him online. I don’t know when exactly Karl started playing. Supposedly, he already knew about Shenmue and he probably already had a grasp of the combat system, but it’s clear he practiced really hard to get to this level so quickly. Obviously, he learned most of the speedrun tricks from Kenjito, afterblue, and me, which streamlined the process, but that doesn’t make his efforts any less impressive. When I started in late 2019, afterblue was my only “competition” as Kenjito had already gone MIA some time before, and the route and strategies used to be different and, in general, much slower. It’s only in mid 2020 that I discovered the Wall Glitch trick, which opened the door for massive amounts of time saved, but in return it made it much harder to complete a run, as the Wall Glitch relies mainly on luck to succeed. When the Wall Glitch became a thing, afterblue decided not to use it (he probably deemed it too annoying, can't blame him for that!) and kept playing with the old-school strategies, leaving me as the only true speedrunner. Naturally, without competition, I had no rush to grind the 70 Man Battle record, hence why I took my time achieving faster runs. I'll also add that, despite my best efforts, I was never able to attract more players, something that discouraged me from posting more of my runs, eventually leading me to focus on other stuff. It’s only in late 2023, not even half a year ago, that I learned of Karl, and soon after, he was the new record holder. That single-handedly reignited my passion for the 70 Man Battle and got me back into it, hence my two new records in the span of a couple of months, only for Karl to get the record back! Now, this is fun! With that said, getting these kinds of times is by no means a walk in the park. Perhaps it may look easy, considering most enemies die in one hit and the bosses seem to go down in a couple of blows, but in reality, it’s much more complex than that. I won’t go into detail on why it’s so difficult to achieve these times, otherwise we would be here for a year, but let's just say we make it look easy. You should give it a try one of these days, it's the best way to test how it works.

[@ArmBreakFire1234]

@@RichardPayne5 i have read all of them, this is really fun, i would like to see you post more of your runs, so Shenmue is not a boring game. And can I watch you both run every month😹.

[@AerobianAngel]

Wow! Great run! With the remaining optimizations just being a matter of tighter execution at this point, sub-2:30 is right around the corner! And great work on the video presentation as well, those little details throughout really brought the experience together as a Shenmue experience.

[@RichardPayne5]

Thank you for commenting, I really appreciate the feedback! As I allude to in the video as well, I thought many times about quitting. In the past two years, I must have got close to beat my time at least 20 times, but would always either mess up something at the end or get unlucky in some form (e.g. Pedro dodges Tiger Storm, boy does he like to do that…). I’m glad my stubbornness kept me going though! The 2:30 wall is right in front of us, but it’s not going to be broken any time soon, that’s for sure! 😅

[@terrytsoi1986]

Congratulations, RIchard!

[@RichardPayne5]

Thank you Terry! 🙇

[@High5Authentic]

A new challenger has entered

[@RichardPayne5]

What are you talking about? 🤔 Are you referring to Karl, who has just achieved a 2'37 run (the fastest ever performed on the HD remaster btw)? ❤

[@High5Authentic]

@RichardPayne5 lol, idk. As a hard to the core shenmue fan also, I'd like to try.

[@RichardPayne5]

@@High5Authentic DO IT! I'ts not only fun and addictive, but it also makes you appreciate the combat even more! Let me know if you get around to playing the mode, I'm here if you have any doubts or questions. ✌

[@High5Authentic]

@RichardPayne5 I love shenmue and it's combat system. I'll be back sometime.

[@TuskaChannel1.7B1weeksago]

​@@RichardPayne5i can't believe that karl made a 2:37 run on ps4 remaster for the first time in history even though a lot of time was wasted on that run, and on the dreamcast he made a record of 2:33 that's so ridiculous, like the fight with pedro makes it seem impossible but looks good to watch. but unfortunately he has done his best on his video run but his views are still quiet.

[@atothed84]

The 70 man battle is the moment Shenmue became a good old fashion beat'em up. Also, I did not know it became a time trial mini game after the game was over. Once it was over, I was finished with it, awaiting Shenmue II.

[@RichardPayne5]

I absolutely love the 70 Man Battle, kinda makes me feel like I’m playing a good 3D Streets of Rage game! I remember being so hyped when I played it for the first time (in late 2018 on the remastered version). At the time, I thought this kind of long battle would reappear in Shenmue II, so I couldn’t wait to play the sequel and see what other crazy fights Ryo would experience in China, only to be a little disappointed when I realized it was a “Shenmue 1 only” thing (although it might have been meant to come back in Shenmue 2, as in the prototype version, there’s an options for a “time attack mode” which however doesn’t work). Now that you mention it, I don’t think the game tells you about the time trial mode being unlocked after beating the game and creating a Clear save… On Dreamcast, it’s hidden behind the Options menu for whatever reason, not exactly a place you’d check out after beating the main game; on the remaster however, it appears on the main menu right along with “New Game” and “Load Game”, so you’re likely to notice it when you finish the game and you’re brought back to the main menu.

[@atothed84]

@@RichardPayne5 I played the original on the Dreamcast, so yeah, no clue there was a hidden mode unlocked. But I wouldn't mind giving the remastered versions a try if I ever get a next gen console. My Dreamcast doesn't work anymore, so I can't go back to that one. Nor Shenmue II. My old XBOX doesn't work either. But yes, that 70 man battle was quite a highlight in the game, for sure.

[@KrisCortez]

That was aawesome!

[@Son-zg9np]

Impressive run Richard Congratulations on the record What’s your thoughts on stab armor. Is it a strong or weak move. I didn’t see you use it. And what’s your thoughts on cross charge throw move. Rain thrust and side reaper kick are under rated moves. I use side reaper kick a lot against the tomato connivence girl in shenmue 2

[@RichardPayne5]

Cheers buddy, happy to hear you enjoyed the run! Those are some interesting questions. Let’s see… As for Stab Armor, it’s a move I have mixed feelings about. On one hand I love the concept because you can easily miss out on if you don’t dive deeper into Iwao’s past, so in a way it’s one of the more unusual moves in Ryo’s style, but on the other hand it kinda looks like a Rain Thrust clone at first, and only upgrades to its true form if you train it, which can be annoying since you get it in late Disc 2/early Disc 3. With all that said, one interesting aspect about it is that both the starting move and the advanced version share more or less the same damage output (doesn’t get stronger even if you train it), which is the same output as many other moves such as Rising Flash and Katana Mist Slash, and less than Sleeve Strike, Mistral Flash, Elbow Assault, Surplice Slash, and the list goes on… so it’s not really an incredibly strong move despite how powerful it looks… Now, each version has its unique quirk: the starting move can be easily chained with other moves, because it ends quickly. One of the chains I use the most is “Stab Armor + Rain Thrust”, which does more damage than even the Elbow Assault, and there are plenty other attacks it mixes well with! The advanced version on the other hand doesn’t work well in conjunction with other moves for the most part, because it has a lot of end frames, but it does offer much more range and speed compared to the one you start with. Overall, it’s not exactly weak or strong, I’d say it’s more a situational move that might come in handy every once in a while. I for one tend to use the advanced variant, because it can be great to hit those opponents that make it a habit to keep their distance from Ryo and, in doing so, waste a lot of precious time, but Katana Mist Slash also serves the same purpose, and it’s arguably better… so that's most likely the reason why I didn't use in the run. 😅 As for Cross Charge, it’s throw e I’ve only recently started to use in the speedrun, due to its unique property of being able to send the enemy flying with an active hitbox that can hurt nearby opponents and even defeat the weaker ones! The problem is that where exactly the enemy is launched and whether or not it lands can’t be easily predicted due to how the move works, so I usually just stick to using single Tiger Storm in its place. Rising Flash has a similar “send the enemy flying with an active hitbox” property, but it’s way easier to manipulate because it usually launches the enemy forward, so I’d rather use Rising Flash than Cross Charge for that purpose. Rain Thrust and Side Reaper Kick are imo among the best moves in the game, simply because they’re quick and still do decent damage. They’re my go-to moves when it comes to doing fast, easy damage in the time trial. Too bad you can’t have Side Reaper Kick and Swallow Dive at the same time in Shenmue I, that would’ve been perfect. 💔

[@Son-zg9np]

@@RichardPayne5 Rising flash was my favorite move. Best 500 yen I ever spent. In the Dreamcast you get to set one move as the R trigger and I picked rising flash as that one move. Shadow reaper was my 2nd favorite move but can rarely use it in battle. I would watch my friend try to get a fast time on the 70 person battle. He would use the same strategy of running towards every enemy, cyclone kick and stab armor on the boss fights. His fastest time was 3 minutes and 55 seconds. But it wasn’t recorded. Only on the VMU Is it true that dark side hazuki throw move has the highest damage output. Or is it arm break fire? It’s a shame shenmue 3 got rid of all throw moves, the tape recorder, and never addressed the mysterious scroll. Appreciate the long comment.

[@RichardPayne5]

@@Son-zg9np Rising Flash rocks! It’s cheap to buy, executes fast, does good damage, can send enemies flying for extra damage, has decent range, mixes well with other moves, and can even infinite combo the enemy if you get lucky enough. This punch alone carried me through most of the FREE battles during my first playthrough! Maybe the only downside is you need to train it because the base version is not as good, but it doesn’t take as long as other moves (I’m looking at you, Mud Spider…). Shadow Reaper is a weird one. It feels sluggish to use and can easily miss the target, but at the same time its weird hitbox allows you to pull off all kinds of strange actions and crazy combos. Personally, I like the untrained variant of the move, because it’s faster and more versatile for combos, but it does do less damage than its trained counterpart. I usually resort to it if I need to move objects around (like the barrel in the time trial) or to run away from enemies to recover health without getting Ryo tired. Before getting into “speedrunning”, my best time was 4:05, and I couldn’t see myself getting a faster run. One day I stumbled upon speedruns for the 70 Man Battle from two other Shenmue players, named “TheKenjitoMaster” and “afterblue”, who had much faster runs and the execution was on another level. That’s where my personal journey to achieve the best time possible began. According to my tests, Darkside Hazuki is indeed one of the strongest moves in the game, but no, it’s not the strongest; that spot goes to Arm Break Fire, but only if you perform the entire throw move. If we’re talking about “single” moves, then Demon Drop and Darkside Hazuki share the title of strongest throw, at least in Shenmue I. Interestingly enough, they also share the same 0% chance of being escaped by enemies. For Shenmue III, Yu Suzuki and his team had to create a worthy sequel with a limited budget, so it’s safe to say most of the shortcomings are at least partially caused by this lack of budget. About the mysterious scroll, it wasn’t even included in Ryo’s inventory if I remember right, which either means they forgot about it or that it wouldn’t play a role in the story, but maybe it will in Shenmue 4. Sadly, it’s just speculation on my part and it may have just as easily been forgotten by Suzuki.

[@takaguisuna6735]

That seem so easy...but that's not 😭🤣

[@HybridEnergy]

Nice, Lan Di disliked this video. I still play this on the original Dreamcast. This Virtua Fighter Lite like fighting system was great, I don't know why they face planted so hard on the third game.

[@RichardPayne5]

As much as it would’ve been awesome to see Shenmue III feature a new iteration of Virtua Fighter’s combat system, that was just wishful thinking by us fans. If I had to guess why Suzuki-san and his team had to go with that below-average, mediocre fighting system we see in Shenmue III, it was probably either due to the low budget, or because SEGA owns the rights to Virtua Fighter (not Yu Suzuki), and they likely tried to strike a deal with them but couldn’t due to SEGA having zero faith in the game’s success on the market. We can only hope a miracle happens and YSNet is able to implement a Virtua Fighter-like system for Shenmue 4, assuming it will be made in the first place, but I’m confident it will.

[@HybridEnergy]

@@RichardPayne5 Yes, I agree...but to be fair Virtua Fighter doesn't own martial art throws, arm locks, and dodging.

[@RichardPayne5]

@@HybridEnergy Yeah, of course that doesn’t completely justify the general lack of options and the absence of many of the mechanics that made the OG Shenmue combat great, but it could help explain why we got that lifeless, barebones combat system in Shenmue III. 💔

[@thatsmekarl5365]

How you trained tiger storm. I cant train in training park

[@RichardPayne5]

There’s no easy way to train throw moves, since you can’t use them during training, but I don’t think it matters that much anyway. I did some tests on the HD remaster a couple of years back and I noticed throw moves either stop getting better or barely improve once they reach “Moderate” and around 60%/70% profiency level, like I have in the video. Tiger Storm is a unique 2-part throw move, as in the 2nd part “evolves” once it reaches moderate level. Both variations are great, and have unique properties (mostly on Dreamcast) that make it hard to decide if you want to have the move trained or not. The Wall Glitch tech I use at 2:20 (damage X5 if you use Tiger Storm to launch the opponent near a wall) can only be done if you have the move trained up to moderate. If you want to make sure the move gets the most amount of experience, then you should go and buy it as soon as you can, then unlock it by checking the scroll. Once that’s done, all you have to do is follow the instructions I gave you for Tengu Drop in the other video, as they apply to all throw moves. For simplicity’s sake, you can find them below. 1 - (Ideally at the start of the game) Go to Ryo’s bedroom, pick “train throw moves only” and then select “No” at “Do you want to train a specific move?”; that way, all throw moves will get a slight experience boost, even if you don’t use them in FREE battles. 2 - Play through the game using this training method (train throw moves only) and you’ll get free move proficiency experience after you clear specific story quests, which will help you have most throw moves reach “Moderate level” by the time you are in Disc 3.

[@thatsmekarl5365]

@@RichardPayne5 thanks i will try it

[@Son-zg9np]

Or train with Fukisan in the dojo once a day in the morning. And don’t progress in the story line

[@RichardPayne5]

@@Son-zg9np You can train them on Fuku-san, but progress is so slow you might as well give up on training altogether. Apparently, you need to perform the same move at least 10 times for the stat increase to happen (although from my experience, throw XP doesn't seem to follow this rule and just increases whenever it feels like it), and considering Fuku-san can take roughly 5 to 6 throws before the spar is over, you'll be training those throw moves at snail's pace. 💀 You also need to wait for an entire in-game day to go by before you can train again, which makes the whole process extremely tedious! I used trainers to max out all throw moves, tested out their damage output, and I can confirm they stop getting better after they reach roughly 65% move mastery. 🤦‍♂ So in short -> Don't bother training throw moves, just use the "train throw moves only" option and it will be more than enough. ☺

[@alexeiharp7676]

Damn too bad they modified those fighting mechanics in Shenmue 3, would've been neat to watch you in some new battles

[@RichardPayne5]

Ahaha thanks man! Would have loved to have Shenmue III on the channel too, but unfortunately the combat system felt so empty and shallow, I just couldn’t get into it. It’s not “bad” by any means, but it doesn’t hold a candle to the Virtua Fighter engine and feels like a massive downgrade in comparison. I’m sure Suzuki-sensei had his reasons, but I truly hope we get the VF combat back for Shenmue 4. 🙏

[@alexeiharp7676]

@@RichardPayne5 definitely, I don't consider the game to be a complete let down but still doesn't compare to its predecessors. I'm hoping too for S4 but not setting my expectations too high now 😅

[@thatsmekarl5365]

Its look like easy but not