SINGAPORE APARTMENT HUNTING (w/ viewings, rent prices, tips)

⟦ Reference ⟧
PropertyGuru propertyguru.com.sg
99.co www.99.co
⟦ Timestamps ⟧
00:00 Intro
01:02 Basics of renting
04:09 My criteria & budget
05:20 The searching process
06:30 Expat hotspots in Singapore
08:53 Apartment viewings!
21:02 Negotiating and tips
⟦ Apartments/Condos Visited ⟧
Principal Garden
Riverside 48
RV Residences
Valley Park
Riverplace
Espada
Spottiswoode Residences
Mill Point
Concourse Skyline
📷 Instagram / sherrybyw
☀️ Facebook / sherrybyw
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Let's chat!
For random questions - [e-mail]
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[@ohdangmybad]

me listening attentively with zero intentions of moving to singapore: ✍️ 👁👄👁👂

[@sherrybyw]

hahahahah I love this

[@dgyk9453]

living in singapore is expensive, holiday will do

[@saintetienne755]

Aaah that's brilliant, exactly the same

[@SuiGenerisAbbie]

@@sherrybyw Sherry, do you mind showing us where you now live, and going over your monthly expenses, please?

[@peejaygarcia9509]

Me too... Me too... ;)

[@Bella.Grasso]

[@Aless.D]

Planning for retirement, or even financial freedom, is a marathon and not a race, as the saying goes. Breaking your financial independence goals into small pieces can help you stay on track while making the process a little more manageable and hopefully a little less stressful. Even if you are starting small, the important thing is to start. Investing is important. Everyone needs it so you don't go bankrupt when you stop working

[@King_jacky]

Yeah that's true and investment creates a safe haven for the future, It's rare these days to get a profitable source to invest it. Is Sherman Williams Trading that good?

[@Fernando-ss1jk]

Yes you are right, no one is perfect in the trading zone but still making good profit from it, I think I'll like to give Sherman Williams Trading a trial and see how it goes. I love creating multiple source of income because it never funny at the end when you depend on one source of income especially when you are retired.

[@Fernando-ss1jk]

How can i reach out to him? Is he on Instagram ??

[@Bella.Grasso]

INSTAGRAM

[@Milgram07]

To add on to what Sherry has shared: once u've narrowed your options to one, make sure u visit/view that property at different timings of the day before u sign on the dotted line; surroundings may be different during the day & at night.

[@sherrybyw]

THIS!!! Agreed, especially if you notice construction sites relatively nearby.

[@raymondblagmoncertifiedpub5533]

My new condo has daily construction going on and I hate it so much!!!

[@sherrybyw]

Thank you for your awesome tip!! I featured your comment in my newest video 👀👌🏻 kzbin.info/www/bejne/qobFfoOrnpJkec0

[@MikeyJJJ]

@@sherrybyw Construction projects are completed relative quickly in Singapore, unless it's a national infrastructure project. Might want to keep that in mind so you are not put off by the noise in what would be a good location.

[@jfk5402]

Agree. I have coyotes around my house they start howling right around midnight….

[@shreyasinha8277]

Moved apartments twice in Singapore and I loved how accurate this was

[@imaanfaker3007]

This video was long but it doesn’t waste ones time by dragging the details out. I watched every minute of it. Thank you Sherry. I’m now subscribed.

[@daniel-lee888]

1. Make sure you have your "profile" saved (nationality, job, etc), so you can copy and paste it is literally the first question the agent will ask you! Landlords prefer you to be working for a MNC with a stable salary and likely to stay for at least a couple of years. 2. When you sign a contract you usually need 1 month bond, 1 month in advance AND sometimes the agent fee (negotiable). 3. You are going to pay for the balcony, BBQ pit, pool, gym etc - better to use your friend's place and pay less rent. You will always use these amenities far less than you think!

[@teacherbert4458]

thanks for this mr daniel lee

[@lancetay9232]

For the transition, another option is to check with hotels on long stay rates, usually they are discounted although once past a certain price booking on Agoda/Trivago etc may be better. Do check road facing for potential noise also (small roads vs main roads vs expressways) and also the train tracks

[@bryanyeesg]

A local realtor here, great video. Do bear in mind if your rent is above $3.5k for a 2 years lease - The market practice is that the tenant agent typically shares commission with the Landlord agent so the tenant doesn't have to pay commission to a tenant agent. Hv fun in SG!

[@lifeisgood2542]

lol. the tenant pays commission to his agent? as if the tenant owes the agent his living.

[@RohanDutt31]

As a Singaporean, I am really impressed with your video, you have clearly done some thorough research and scoped out some wonderful options! Kudos to you, have DM'd!

[@jacquicope9843]

Thank you Sherry! This video has been really helpful! I'll be moving in the next few months and have had a terrible time trying to find something that fits the budget. Everything seems so small, so expensive... and has terrible furniture. Your insights have given me new motivation to have a look again to compare prices, facilities etc so I'm better able to make a decision once I move.

[@starrysloth8018]

local here, the areas n apartment she recommended are more on the high end side. same or larger area in established HDB areas cost only 2k+ per month with at least 2-3bedrooms, i think u can check them out too. just that they have no amenities like the pool n gym, but u can just easily sign up for gym package elsewhere.

[@dunlop9292]

That’s a really huge budget but really like Sherry’s well presented & thought out video. Hats off👍🏻

[@janepark559]

Moved to singapore last year and this is very accurate and probably super helpful to those looking to move here!

[@sherrybyw]

I'm glad to hear this!! Really tried my best to cover all the basics. Thanks Jane 🥰

[@bingdaliew9736]

good shit jane

[@julianajohari1051]

MnMJk

[@lifeisgood2542]

you were able to move to singapore in the midst of pandemic? how???

[@ThePlotting]

Lived in Singapore for the past 10 years and recently left. My one regret during this time is that I didn't spend more time living in the East, I lived all over the island but for me the East is just superior in virtually every category and the nicest vibe.

[@whaaaat459h]

I’m Singaporean and I couldn’t agree with you more! :P

[@Leo-ev9ss]

Exactly! The east is the hidden gem of Singapore

[@maximooliveros2415]

Its great to work in singapore specially in your mid 20s to late 30s. Then get out. its just sad living there forever

[@4dmusic875]

@@maximooliveros2415 why? I am yhinking oh living there. is it boring or something?

[@ILovePlayingZeldaGamesOnSwitch]

@@4dmusic875 coz it's just work-home. It will get boring eventually. I've been here 12 yrs. Maybe work another 3-5 yrs then get out

[@jielcm2726]

Singapore was my home for 3 years, marks my independent living both overseas and out from my parents house. And I ended up living in the ULU area at Sengkang with another young local indian couple who doesnt allow me to cook anything than boiling egg and noodles.. nostalgia just hits hahaha 😅

[@melvinch]

As a Singaporean, I see many Caucasians renting old HDB apartments instead of condos. I guess they are the wiser ones. The novelty of a ridiclously expensive claustrophic condo apartment will wear out very quickly. A good part of the high rent goes to the view.

[@real4life335]

Nope

[@CroissantOnMSG]

Nope, can confirm you are 100% incorrect

[@P53eud0nym05]

Sounds like sour grapes 🤣

[@rockybor25]

I will move to condo if I would move to SG from Europe. I would like to have swimming pool and gym in the building :).

[@v6504]

staying next to sea side keppel condo in SG is not worth it? literally there is no HDB next to sea. its just outside my condo gate and can see yacht.

[@Samuel_Lai]

The view of Concourse Skyline condo is absolutely stunning. My colleague lives here and the rent is now $5,000!

[@ramirlopez1396]

I'm just here looking some tips to our new acquired duplex and found this...this video is nicely researched and done. Thank you!

[@onigirimerchant]

I'm moving in December from Australia so thanks Sherry!. My budget is similar around $3 - 3.3K ... but first I'll be stopping at that Wakey Wakey cafe for sure!

[@EngineeredMojo]

Super informative, I love Singapore. Planning a long term rental with my wife and kid. Video was great info

[@a_bogoduhova]

Amazing video! Thanx for such a comprehensive overview!❤

[@sreemallu]

Thank you Sherry!!. THe video is very helpful. In Singapore now and I am following your tips.👍🏼

[@pensarfeo]

"Never split the difference" changed my life!!!

[@christopherrashford8468]

Love this, as I’m likely to move over later this year❤️

[@intheworldofmari]

that is exciting! all the best with your move!

[@manusiagendut9745]

if your budget 3300, you don't need to hunt. just easily choose any.

[@tanweiqiang1290]

Used to live in Spottiswoode Residences. Really one of the best place to live!

[@DaniilMatzkuhn]

Thank you for this detailed insight into the rental market. It would be interesting to see what kind of places you could get for the same budget in 2023

[@rijutruthwarrior1128]

Fell in love with your vibes. LOL💕👍 However there are great, bigger condos on the west coast too at much affordable prices.

[@MelindaTseFilms]

I don't even live in SG, but I watched the entire video LOL much love from Toronto!! I always enjoy your videos 🥰

[@sherrybyw]

THIS SUPPORT THO!! Thank you Melinda!

[@MelindaTseFilms]

@@sherrybyw 🥰🥰 Happy to support you!! Love your content & personality!! ^__^

[@EscapeIntoAdventures]

Thanks for all the tips! They've been super helpful!

[@cyrilleduverger3416]

I’m 27 living in CA got my first house paid in c ash last week , I feel so happy for my self and my achievements so far watching this random video. I’m glad I made the right decision about my finances that changed me forever

[@avinashbowers8618]

Congratulations Dear, you need loads of ca sh to own a house , you did it congratulations once again to you ❤️

[@cyrilleduverger3416]

@@avinashbowers8618 thank you sir ☺️

[@michelle-rose]

I'm inspired currently s aving to buy a house too, this means a lot to me at this time. Can you share tips on how you improved your in come pls

[@cyrilleduverger3416]

@@michelle-rose I can share some that helped me 1. Plan towards it 2. Be frugal and minimal on spending ( don’t buy why you don’t need ) 3. S ave towards retirement ( Roth IRA /401) 4. Build an emergency fund 5. S ave to in vest . It’s a proven way to get richer

[@thomasoliver555]

@@cyrilleduverger3416 this is a very good idea thank you for sharing

[@arwenmegan]

Hey Sherry, perhaps you can do a segment on your moving day, from hiring a mover, to getting your utilities set up etc..

[@sherrybyw]

I definitely want to share more about that! There's so much to coordinate during the moving process 🤣

[@raymondblagmoncertifiedpub5533]

@@sherrybyw Yes please do a video on that! It was crazy how many hoops I had to jump through just to get wifi, electric, and a bank account setup.

[@sherrybyw]

Hi Jason! An update - I just uploaded a video all about the logistics, move-out cleaning, utilities, AC servicing....the whole nine yards! kzbin.info/www/bejne/qobFfoOrnpJkec0

[@sherrybyw]

@@raymondblagmoncertifiedpub5533 So many hoops indeed!! I JUST uploaded a video about it :) Hopefully it can help others simplify the process! kzbin.info/www/bejne/qobFfoOrnpJkec0

[@kwistwine]

This is super helpful!! I’m moving to Singapore next month and am actually looking for a unit with a balcony too!

[@DanielIaconis]

Thanks so much for posting, I’m moving to Singapore next March so this is super helpful and informative. You mentioned cooking is important to you, I’m wondering if you have any vlogs on shopping etc or if you have any plans on creating any content on this? I’ve heard it can be a little tricky finding organic foods etc. cheers, Dan :)

[@ezraj5693]

Super informative video, been searching for one.

[@mommyblogger4981]

love the editing!

[@diygetafe4631]

Thanks for the book recommendation, already read 70 pages and it looks like a really good book. A lot of knowledge. Thanks!! Hopefully moving to Singapore in 2025

[@SnowFire05]

At 20:36, it brought back weird and funny memories when I was in Taiwan for the first time. Like specifically, the roller windows in the bathroom

[@eddiejaoude]

Super helpful tips! Thank you Sherry!! We have been in Bali for 6 months, but looking at options to go to Singapore for a year

[@eitherway_8r9]

can you do an apartment tour of your own space please? would be great to see what you finally chose! (but please censor all window views etc for your safety, it's easy to spot which area you are in just from the view since SG is small)

[@sherrybyw]

This is so sweet - thanks for the safety tip!! I just uploaded a tour of my apartment here 🥰 kzbin.info/www/bejne/nJrNaGimhquqqcU

[@eitherway_8r9]

@@sherrybyw aww yeah thank you!! :)

[@madeinaotearoanz]

Love the food scene in Singapore, but the humidity was a killer for me.

[@tacodias]

I would move to SG in a heartbeat, if it wasn’t for the humidity…

[@Fiat-kl6lt]

@@tacodias Heat, humidity n frequent thunderstorms are the biggest turn offs in Singapore..

[@jayd2655]

Is humidity year-round or is there a couple of months of reprieve?

[@madeinaotearoanz]

@@jayd2655 I'm pretty sure it's like that all the time.

[@Fiat-kl6lt]

@@jayd2655 There's no reprieve, it's whole year round. It has become even hotter with less wind n more humid recently due to global warming.

[@raymondblagmoncertifiedpub5533]

I just moved to Singapore back in April 2021 and wished you had made this video back then. You did an awesome job covering many topics surrounding renting. One of the most interesting comments you made was concerning how newer apartments are much smaller than older one. I was a little disillusioned when I found out that the condo I purchased for 1,000,000 Singapore dollars was much smaller than those purchased by my friends who live here. Your video help put into perspective why (their condos where much older). Thanks and keep up the good work. I have been watching some of your other videos as well. You have very good content and great energy.

[@m777socialmedia4]

that's because locals wouldn't rent. Many would buy a HDB first, then sell and upgrade to condo if they could.

[@raymondblagmoncertifiedpub5533]

@@m777socialmedia4 good point

[@shaynaloveswiss1]

for that budget you can try ICON - city views and amazing hot tubs on the 31st floor.

[@DNAHEALTHRX]

Thank u Sherrybyw, very informative on the lifestyle in Singapore, I learned a lot, congrarulations and always stay healthy with doc Arle ha

[@scarlett4141]

Looking for an apartment in Singapore now. Thank you for your video, it helps me a lot !!!

[@liztan8814]

Great video. I used to stay at the stretch at RV Residences. Facing the road it is very very noisy.

[@supermackey]

This is so educational. I didn't know about the diplomatic clause until now. Moving to Singapore Early next year and this is going to come in handy when I move. Thanks for making the video :)

[@lina_byoui]

Singapore is a place of interest for me maybe after korea so this video !!! Will be helpful 🤩

[@scorpio4667]

awh this video helps a lot! thank you so much x

[@doctormrsvandertramp]

I’m voting the last apartment, that view and that balcony! (inserts Italian hands emoji 👌🏻)

[@jjjay4300]

OMG I just saw this from my explore page and I literally just moved to Canada and thinking about a move to Singapore 2 years later!

[@emmalynncraft9636]

Not even kidding I have a world cultures assignment where I need to choose a place around the world to live - this was legit so helpful in predicting what living there might be like lmaooo. Thank you sm!

[@sherrybyw]

never thought this would be the use case for my video, but I love it 😂😂😂

[@Mourik131]

This is so helpful. Thank you

[@AmbientWalking]

Thanks for the tips! Really great!

[@jamescarlolucas7459]

Waahh! I so love this video!

[@destivish]

You are a lifesaver!! ❤️

[@ryanio123]

Thanks so much, very informative!

[@mygermannightmare6116]

Very elaborated and interesting video! I think I could never live in such big buildings with a lot of people though, so the heritage houses are the way to go. It’s interesting that the applicant‘s nationality is the first question they ask; it’s a taboo to ask that in Germany!

[@gregh7457]

no political correctness in asia

[@EVL-xj5vc]

Wow the Spottiswood one! 😍

[@WorldAquariumSingapore]

Cheers Sherry super good video there, and there are lots of apartments and also public housing HDB to rent, and also renting in Singapore takes time to find a good room or an entire apartment or hdb flat to move in, how ever there are so many choices and also moving companies can be quite fast, condo are more expensive and also best is to look for a place near to MRT or LRT stations and also convenient with food and NTUC to buy your daily stuffs, recommended are near to sub areas and not near to the city, and actually some landed rooms can be cheap as well. i recommend to rent a room with toilet and not a share toilet :D thats really important cause last time i was renting my landed rooms and tenants do quarrel over where their things are placed or being moved by other tenants. And yes in Singapore dont need to contact agents you can search lots of websites or social media from Singapore and you can start viewing the room you like. cheers

[@annajean5216]

Excellent video, thank you!

[@wangzheyou]

I’m going to move to Singapore, thx a lot for your tips which is pretty useful 😎

[@user-iv3fp4gy1u]

Thanks so much for this! Might you visit/compare any of the larger homes in a future videos?

[@shekelafarmer8306]

I'm just 👀 viewing; not looking to move at this time; but, I just love those apartments with the awesome size balconies connections sweet.

[@teacherbert4458]

I LOVE THE FOOD AND THE PLACE.... SINGAPORE IS THE SAFEST PLACE! HOW I WISH I CAN GO AND TRAVEL AGAIN IN SG...

[@sherrybyw]

Some timestamps for you guys (although you should definitely just watch the whole video 😝) 01:02 Basics of renting 04:09 My criteria & budget 05:20 The searching process 06:30 Expat hotspots in Singapore 08:53 Apartment viewings! 21:02 Negotiating and tips

[@danjonson5136]

trash expat. SGD3000 is more than many singaporeans make in amonth yet u making this "apartment hunting" video to mock us?

[@pfguo87]

Hi Sherry, are the prices in USD or SGD? Thanks

[@twincherry4958]

You look Asian in terms of origin...easy to spot

[@comet8989]

@sherrybyw. I'm in medical treatment and need to stay in spore for at least 2 months. I'm looking for an apartment with 2 bedroom. Do you have any recommendations? I will stay with my husband, and my 3 kids, 17, 16 and 10 y.o kid. Thank you..

[@alexandwhite]

so detailed! Great video Sherry! soooo which one was the final choice haha

[@jasonyeong465]

Just watched your video. Am trying to find housing for myself and dont like sharing with people too. Great video.

[@meghachavan5376]

Thank you for sharing , very informative❤

[@jenniferthiele7626]

i live in singapore between 2002 and 2010 on balmoral park. My favorite place ever

[@jochrislim]

I find this very helpful!

[@marki7275]

Nice video. Well done. Small and expensive that's how it is in Singapore. It is still rough to imagine paying $4k for a 700 square foot unit. Yikes. Anything close to running is good, but then Singapore is not so big and if you run far enough you can get to East Coast or MacRitchie or Upper Peirce Reservoir etc.

[@siamerej]

nice vid! will be moving in singapore soon. Awesome info!

[@alexguana5624]

ohhhh I live in Principal Gardens! it's amazing I must say!

[@sherrybyw]

Gorgeous facilities there!

[@heltok]

This was really useful!

[@tessa-xp2ue]

I MISS SG SO MUCHHH UUUGFH

[@eudimoniia4967]

im in singapore!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! yayaya, so proud that we have a sg tuber hereeeee!!!!!!!!!!!

[@sherrybyw]

😁😁😁

[@gingerwhoable]

Hi Sherry ! You made my day😊 Fr North Van. Planning to spend a summer in Singapore doing nothing

[@intheworldofmari]

there is so much to do here though :)

[@MrTurner97]

love this content

[@carmelo7501]

Not sure why I am here, but I fell in love 🤣

[@NicO-cm2xo]

Singapore is a great place for interim worklife network travel… its been interim for 30yrs

[@thetminoo5055]

Now I've just noticed that you said "washroom" instead of "bathroom" because you come from Canada!!! 😱 Now everything makes sense to me 😂 and thank you for all the info here. Your videos would be the one of the reasons why I'd be fine when moving to Singapore ❤️❤️

[@thomsonlim6914]

Great content!

[@pikachuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu]

LOVE this video which is very very informative and helpful for ppl who want to relocate to SG! Thank you Sherry!

[@Studmuffin_]

I can't wait for the Apt tour based on those requirements

[@sherrybyw]

I just uploaded a tour of my apartment! kzbin.info/www/bejne/nJrNaGimhquqqcU 😊

[@wl5149]

Great tips. Thank you.

[@PKP1]

Great video insightful

[@xanx3]

Woah woah woah the editing 🤩👀🔥

[@sherrybyw]

🤩🤩🤩

[@tanzinaamin4487]

Hi Sherry! Great videos about SG, loving them! I was looking for housing via propertyguru but the prices seem so much higher than what you've mentioned here. Did it spike so much within a year? ☹ Is it possible to get a condo (around 600-700sft) within 2.5-3k preferably near Mapletree Business City/ River Valley area? Would be very helpful to know. Thanks!!

[@flowerbanzai]

Love this, I want to move to Singapore !

[@intheworldofmari]

Singapore is indeed wonderful!

[@cutecynthiakim]

Thanks for the great video! My mum works with many expats, so your video will be super helpful for them! Adding on locations to consider, Bukit Timah is actually not bad. The prices will be not as steep as the other location as it is not as central, but it's near quite a few expressways, so travelling around is fine. Car sharing apps isn't very expensive in Singapore, so it's actually quite okay. The apartments around might not be very new, modern but the apartments are normally bigger.

[@sherrybyw]

Thank you Cynthia!! Just uploaded a follow-up on the moving logistics side of things :) kzbin.info/www/bejne/qobFfoOrnpJkec0

[@yjc149]

just rent a room at outskirt area. for 600/room. very good condition. such as punggol/sengkang .. anyway now work from home. the location doesnt really matters

[@xuyan3377]

I wonder how much you earn, 3.5k SGD is almost a fresh local U graduate monthly salary

[@amelial3396]

expats usually earn ~7-12k but im not speaking for her

[@xuyan3377]

@@amelial3396 depends on the working experience and industry, not every expat can earn that much

[@JunixZzHD]

@@amelial3396 I have no idea where you got that number from, but from my quick search, that is a _much_ inflated salary. That can be the salary of someone in their middle ages progressing to management levels.

[@taranjitronaldinhify]

Some companies subsidise their employee's accomodation so that could be a factor as well

[@tmThuy]

That is usually higher than fresh grad salary

[@DonYang73]

Just for your info, the sale prices and rents on these websites are marked up easily 10%-15%.

[@KevinYang]

It'd be amazing to live in Singapore for some time, such an amazing place!

[@intheworldofmari]

It really is a wonderful place to live.. where are you from?

[@normhanson981]

Very small though , I found it restricted in terms of things to do.

[@jielcm2726]

@@normhanson981 agreed looks high end functioning urban with so many strict rules like the one your parents impose in your house never to break😄

[@j134679]

it's great for raising a family

[@warrenlim2461]

Areas like 8 courtyards is further from town area but has more space for the same price. Yet it is right outside a MRT and travel is fast to town area

[@tenga3tango]

Most of the apartments offered for viewing by your agents have the living room balcony and bedroom facing the afternoon blazing sun. For renters , who are going to work from home , most of the time, bear in mind that Singapore 's setting western sun facing units is no joke, its not like Hawaii or Los Angeles where you can wax romantic lyricals about , no ocean cool breeze to temper the blazing sun , and even air con at full blast can only mitigate your comfort , plus increased electric bills, I would say, the nicer the owner renovates the place , and throw in more goodies to the rental place , the more it is a hot sunny west facing unit. Beware. West sun facing units, use it as a bargaining point. I know, cos I live there.

[@j134679]

This applies to the whole of Southeast Asia too. Sunrise & sunset views are not a plus point! Even with detached homes. Do not have windows facing those directions unless you have trees to shade it. Your AC units will struggle really hard.

[@michaelroche4563]

Great video, thanks for sharing. Currently in a 'holding pattern' in Korea waiting to get into Singapore. Apartment will be priority number 1 once i'm allowed in. I'm finding photos on property guru to be a bit rubbish, so your video is great for getting a better feel (I'm in the same price range)

[@geoffreylim6993]

I'm an average singaporean, I would say what the actual f are those prices, if you are willing to forgo amenities you can probably rent a bigger house at half the price.

[@shacooked]

This is pretty cool for a Singaporean with no relatives, I had to opt to room rentals and even that it ate like 80% of my salary due to the CPF deductions. CPF are just frauds... Till time you want to get your pension they kept on extending it 🤣.

[@Jinkypigs]

@@shacooked dude, you will appreciate your cpf when you mature and approach your retirement age.

[@shacooked]

@@Jinkypigs mhmmmm says 80% of boomers in Singapore. Sorry I rather have it somewhere else, but thank you for your advice ? 😅

[@MillionDollarListingSG]

Definitely a great review for first time tenants relocating to Singapore or moving out of their parent's home!

[@polyannamoonbeam]

I guess if you take into account the facilities - swimming pools, fitness centres, balconies and so on it is not so expensive.. comparing to Ireland where prices are probably higher for modern apartments and new builds - without swimming pools :)