Shin Megami Tensei V is Going to Jail

Atlus pulls an Atlus, more at 11
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[@thomasnoh5149]

Physical copies of SMT V are usually around $18-20 at GameStop if you want to get in low before it moons.

[@fawazr]

Buy them up now and sell them in a few weeks?

[@quinkrinson3872]

​@@fawazr no that's a dick move just buy one and keep your copy

[@weggygaygay9940]

No thanks I wanna go to heaven ​@@fawazr

[@Nintentips.]

@@fawazrhope you didn’t do that the game dropped in value lol

[@sigmundschwartz6434]

Vengeance really is V's Maniax edition, right down to ATLUS trying to act like vanilla doesn't exist.

[@unamuseddeathgod5128]

this is the most "I don't like what you did but I'm not upset" I've been in a while

[@Litten-sb7eg]

Feel the same thing too.

[@Narlaw1199]

I remember buying the vanilla version of Soul Sacrifice, not knowing an enhanced version was just there, making the first version obsolete. I felt utterly scammed. So as one consumer, I don't mind this decision of delisting vanilla V. Moreover, if it's delisted, I'd say it's a free good reason to emulate it.

[@certifiedtrash3152]

But unless your just straight up stupid, why would you even emulate the OG when vengeance straight up let's you play the original version near unaltered via the "path of creation" or whatever

[@bass2126]

But aren't those Monster-Hunter-like games all like that? They release an enhanced version with some mega ultra high difficulty tier with its own new quests & loot? Also it's amazing to see someone who got that obscure Vita exclusive in it's hayday, too bad sony just decided to not market the game at all & send it to die I guess.

[@Dw7freak]

@@bass2126 The difference is that, since World released, they've released both a stand-alone version of the updated version and an expansion to the base as dlc, basically giving people who played the original version a discount. As far as I'm aware, you can't buy Vengeance as an expansion. You have to buy the full thing.

[@Chelaxim]

@bass2126 Many but not all, by those standards why ever should you buy an Atlus game...they're just going to give us a better version in a year or so.

[@nintenx1235]

*pirate Emulation isn't synonymous with piracy, and I believe pirating can be okay morally. And this will be a very good example of a non Nintendo game that will be morally ok to pirate to appreciate it. I think v is a garbage smt title, but it is fun.

[@TQM470]

Somewhere, someone would accidentally buy the old version instead of Vengance and since Nintendo doesn't refund digital sales, get screwed.

[@jive238]

What they shoulda done is give discounts to vengence to those with proof of purchase of the original if they want to scub the original like this. I've lived through several atlus re-releases but this is the first one that ever bit me, honestly feels bad man.

[@ajmoment8091]

keep the original standalone for $30 on the eShop and offer Vengance as DLC for another $30 if you have the original. I feel like this solves most issues with keeping the original 5 up.

[@thepaper888]

I concur

[@LesoTheGamerboy]

I think they just wanted clear up confusion and prevent people from accidentally buying vanilla instead of Vengeance, and they figured that since the original story from vanilla is included in the game, there would be no reason for anybody to go back to vanilla.

[@DenjiSora]

It makes sense to me because if someone accidentally purchased the original on the switch, that would be a horrible situation. I also understand that the original still needs to be preserved, though. It is a sticky situation all around for people who purchased the original game on switch 😢 I do have the steelbook for the original and will be doing so again for the ps5.

[@Noahs_Chair]

The ideal would be to remove the OG from individual purchase and have it for free for buying Vengeance. Edit: Also I just realise people that can't afford Vengeance without the OG aren't going to buy Vengeance either, so Atlus is just throwing money.

[@darkhorse744]

@@Noahs_Chair The original is basically in Vengeance though, Canon of Creation. That's probably why they don't feel the need to include it with Vengeance.

[@Noahs_Chair]

@@darkhorse744 Yes, the story is there but some people might not like some of the changes Vengeance makes to the gameplay and it would literally cost them nothing to do this.

[@darkhorse744]

@@Noahs_Chair NoJ viewed pack in titles as just giving away free games, so I can easily see SoJ drawing the same conclusion, especially given the fact that P3R doesn't have FeMC because SoJ didn't want to give ATLUS that much money or time.

[@Noahs_Chair]

@@darkhorse744 ... There is a huge as gap between having to make FeMC from the ground up compare to just adding the game they already had in the shop with Vengeance.

[@shawklan27]

I guess the physical copy I have now is going to become a collector's item now, sweet.

[@nicksjacku9750]

I'll just download the rom

[@irsshill4502]

​@@nicksjacku9750Yeah, your rom would be a good collector's item

[@nicksjacku9750]

@@irsshill4502 playing video games whenever I want for free

[@Chelaxim]

Like vanilla P3? LMFAO The only people buying vanilla P3 over FES are collectors who won't play the game. It technically hoarding disorder.

[@corey2232]

I feel the opposite. I have a sealed physical copy, but it'll probably be worth nothing after Vengeance comes out. 10 years from now, nobody is going to be seeking out copies of the "inferior" version of SMT V.

[@mrperson4542]

Part of me kinda wonders if the devs themselves also had a hand in this, considering Atlus has never done anything like this in the past. Perhaps they were so disappointed in Base V that they just want it to bury it and have Vengeance fully replace it as their “intended” final product? And to be clear, i still quite enjoyed Base V.

[@pigcatapult]

Honestly, with how painfully raw the story's cut edges were in the base game, I know I'd find it painful as a writer to finally put out a completed story, but still have people buying the incomplete version and judging on solely that. I don't agree with the ethics of nuking games, but it does seem like they tried to reach a middle ground by including the original storyline as an option in Vengeance.

[@peterparker1683]

I would agree with the sentiment more if Base V was actually a well received title. Everyone and their freaking grandma was trashing this game for a couple of years. The devs at Atlus themselves were also disappointed with it and mentioned in interviews how they are handing Vengeance in response to the feedback from everyone. I also heavily doubt people are gonna issue the shitty level scaling.

[@zoltanszalai218]

Yes they did: SMT Nocturne followed by Nocturn Maniacs edidition. Persona 3 follwed by Persona 3 The answer (no you could not buy the answer separatly, this was ps2 times). I will give P4 Golden a pass since it is a handheld port, but P5 royal has no excuse. Now Vengence pulls the same. ATLUS basically releases Early Access games at full-price, then comes up with a Complete version at full price.

[@mrperson4542]

@@zoltanszalai218 You misunderstand. I was questioning the practice of them *delisting* a game fully and having its rerelease be the only available version. I’m already well aware of them making rereleases, as they’ve technically been doing so since the SMT1 days with its various ports and differences. V, as far as i know, is the only instance of the original game being *delisted* while its rerelease, Vengeance, is left.

[@zoltanszalai218]

@@mrperson4542 Fair point, it is the first time they actively try to remove the old version. And yet, I can't get the the example of Ubisoft and the crew, where they even nuked physical copies thrugh online features. I fear this will be the norm industry-wide if drastic action is not taken. Mostly I'm just pissed I spent full price on V already.

[@DigitalDiscDreamer]

It doesn't matter. You could buy physical (which is preferable anyways) or emulate it. The fact that Atlus is warning us in advance is mercy to those who want the OG experience at a reasonable price. Here's another thing. People who are going to be interested in the OG SMT V are more than likely to have already owned it. If game preservation is an issue, refer to my first two options. If accessibility is an issue, then now is the time to get it if you don't have it. It is inevitable that it would get delisted anyways because if it is not by Atlus, then by Nintendo who would permanently shut it down. SMT Vengeance is going to be superior in every way unless you just want a version with less features for some reason. And remember, if it is no longer available to purchase, sailing the high seas is not unethical.

[@darkhorse744]

Saw the title first and was wondering what the post could possibly be about until I saw the thumbnail.

[@Macca]

SMTV had weed and the cops didn't like that

[@darkhorse744]

@@Macca Bruh, smh. Can't believe SMTV would do that. Shameful behaviour. What would their older brother SMTIV think!?

[@thouartseraph]

glad i got mines physical on launch. knew this would happen.

[@__BlacklotuS__]

same i got the steelbook edition

[@manzmanuel5637]

Pre-ordered the 1st one with steelbook waiting for the fall of man edition to arrive and will pre-order Vengeance. 😅

[@kamo124]

But if i have the digital one i can still play it right?

[@WildharpieECW]

@@kamo124 yes

[@TheCobraKing209]

This could be a better thing if (and I do mean IF) they change how the interactions between base SMTV and SMTV:V work according to saves and the Compendium because being able to transfer only THREE DEMONS from base version to Vengeance is basically saying “ we are invalidating all of your work, do it again”

[@brub1738]

Thank god they released the game physically so the game could still be played in some shape. Edit: I would also like to mention that for example the original persona 5 is still available even though royal exist and that’s because these games are different same thing with V it’s it own artistic vision from Vengeance which is clearly different like I said before though thank god for physical copies existing

[@nexo42069]

I mean couldn't you just play the original game with the improvements in vengeance it's not like it's sjr where the new plot is intertwined with the original plot

[@brub1738]

@@nexo42069 I guess but I still think having access to the original is important

[@nexo42069]

@@brub1738 I can see that but then again why would you want to do the demon kings palace with save points

[@radical_rat]

​@@nexo42069 Gameplay changes, balance adjustments, and design tweaks will apply even to Canon of Creation in Vengeance. While you do pretty much get the original STORY that way, you don't get the same GAME.

[@brub1738]

@@nexo42069 I’m not arguing vengeance isn’t a upgrade or anything because it definitely is but I still think having that vision available is important because the demon palace was designed with a limited amount of save points in mind

[@gyromitte5904]

This may become a problem to get the game in the future, but it really affects a small portion of people, like really really few players want to spend 80 hours on the vanilla version of atlus games instead of the enhanced one, and I think you perfectly explained the points of view of atlus for making this decision

[@drethemage9559]

This is a nothing burger. If you didn't get the OG SMT V, thats your fault. Why would anyone get the worst version of a game when the better version is around the corner? This is another gaming controversy everyone will be mad at for a month then forget about it later.

[@nicksjacku9750]

At least it can be played with availability thanks to emulation

[@junpei6180]

I don't even see this as an controversy, this is good news to me,so people don't buy the beta version of the game accidentally or something

[@Merciless_Zero]

@@junpei6180in that sense it makes perfect sense, however we seen situations where companies have censored content in new rereleases while the old rerelease has uncensored content which could explain why some people might be against the entire idea of video game censorship and support the original release.

[@nicksjacku9750]

@@junpei6180 vanilla is not beta

[@irsshill4502]

Sj redux could happen again.

[@iwannaplayssbb6665]

Honestly, the re-release comes with it....I don't see the problem

[@felipezamora9711]

Mind someone explaining how OG being taken off is Anti-consumer? It being replaced with a better version and you can play the OG story on said new version. I see how this is anti-preserving but how is this anti-consumer

[@V2ULTRAKill]

Look up what happened with strange journey redux Now imagine if it was impossible to get the original better version of strange journey because redux was released

[@felipezamora9711]

@@V2ULTRAKill yeah I see now how this is bad. My b for my ignorance

[@vanilla8956]

​@@V2ULTRAKill strange journey ds was never sold as a digital license. By your logic it was already "impossible"

[@AngelKnightZeo713]

@@V2ULTRAKill All the games on the DS were sold physically, inc. Strange Journey. Redux was sold BOTH physically and digitally on the 3DS. Really don't see why people are bring that up as a point/counter point & I've played both versions a ton of times to which I can clearly tell you fools, Redux has the new story content blended in like Golden, Royal, and the remaining 99% of rereleases does!

[@Xenobladeplayer60]

Because it takes away options. Also that just throwing away easy money Atlus could have made. Imagine if instead of removing it they just drop the price of the original to $30 or $20 bucks. I'm sure on release day of smt 5 V, not everyone will have $60 plus to spend on it but might have $20 or $30 on them and would had brought it digitally if the option was there.

[@unlucky_thir13en]

I know you mentioned the biggest pro being that removing the original version would mitigate confusion in the purchasing experience for customers. But I think there's also something to be said about the removal simplifying the very existence of SMT5 Vengeance as well. I already see tons of comments asking "so is this a sequel or...?" If Vengeance is the only SMT5 game left on the market, those questions are probably going to be asked less frequently as it becomes the default SMT5 that people are familiar with, and from a branding perspective, it becomes more accessible to casuals and newcomers as its own game without needing to be compared to its original counterpart.

[@kamdenmadan3289]

And its fair for people to think that considering the SMT game prior to 5, was a sequel to 4 and all it had was a subtitle, SMT 4 Apocolypse. If I played the 3ds games and hadnt started get to much knowledge of 5, id also assume it was a sequel.

[@unlucky_thir13en]

@@kamdenmadan3289 Oh, 100%. The original name for SMT4 Apocalypse was “Final”. They changed it when they localized it for the West because that would have probably been even MORE confusing for a casual audience. But you’ve also got games like Persona 4 Golden that are so well-known and beloved that people almost forget the original P4 existed. Feels like they’re hoping for something similar here.

[@DragonKingX78]

Leaker Midori has said that Atlus will no longer be doing enhanced re-releases after SMT5V and will focus more future DLC.

[@senorapples1115]

Yeah thats for the better tbh, im somewhat peeved to get the original only to have vengeance be released. Its also better since games are 70 dollars nowadays and dlc can be lesser than that.

[@Xenobladeplayer60]

I believe that when I see it.

[@3redstreeter256]

Okay I haven’t finished the video yet so maybe there’s something I don’t know but I’m pretty sure if you own the game digitally this won’t have any effect on your copy, and you can still access and play the game at your leisure, including any DLC you own. I believe it also includes this even if you’ve deleted your game, as you will still be able to redownload it even after the game is delisted from the shop. This really isn’t that big of a deal compared to other studios delisting their games. Edit: I do wanna say I acknowledge and disapprove of the potential precedent that deleting digital games from stores sets, but all I’m trying to say is I don’t believe that this situation falls into that usual category and that is specifically because people who already own the digital version still can still play it and Atlus giving everyone a one month heads up so the opportunity to do something about it is present.

[@GradMeat]

I see two ways for this, on one hand I dont like them doing this, on the other hand I have the steelbook edition of this game and I just saw its value go WAY UP. Makes it feel more special to me.

[@DogiTheWallcrusher]

I don't see the big deal. Vengence has the OG storyline so the only actual difference is whether you want the QoL or not. And I highly doubt anybody was planning to go out there and find a physical copy to play offline to make sure they have a 1.00 version or something. It ain't that different and the QoL should have been included in the original. And as you said, it helps reduce consumer confusion. Imagine people not knowing any better buying the original. Can imagine some teenager's parents just getting the cheaper one at gamestop or something completely unaware what their kid asked for. Just sounds like manufactured outrage by people who aren't even aware Vengence has the original story, or at least those were most of the outraged reactions I saw on the reports and almost all of them had a follow up comment after somebody said it has the OG story in it where they said "oh, s'cool then." It's a different release than the other enhanced versions since it's not the changes baked into the original story without the option to play the original. It's not a SJ:R or P5R, it's a 4A and being sold as a 4+4A double pack.

[@Ender41948]

It's a scummy practice only because instead of letting the original fall in price and giving people the option, they just flat out pretend there is no original so they can sell the game at full price to everyone who hasn't gotten it yet. Also, preservation is important. No matter how "obsolete".

[@thecosmic8248]

@@thetreehousefactoryyou can still download delisted games you still own, it just means others can’t buy it.

[@V2ULTRAKill]

You say that Until atlus pulls a strange journey redux and makes gameplay changes so disgusting that it makes the "enhanced" version so god awful that you wish you were playing the og instead

[@damasake]

I don't like playing the new GTA:SA remastered. I forgot the old password to my Steam account with GTA:SA Classic. Pirate time. . . . . . -profit?

[@DogiTheWallcrusher]

@Ender41948 the original has been available for cheap for like 2 years. Hell it's $24 right now on Amazon

[@Nobu6]

Regarding atlus sales friendly reminder that p3r released in February and was already on sales in March.

[@corey2232]

True, but that's digital-only. A lot of people who buy SMT want physical versions.

[@Nobu6]

@@corey2232 p3r went on even bigger sale on Amazon. It's was like 50% sale while ps store had 20-30

[@V2ULTRAKill]

​@@corey2232the entire argument here is a digital only situation you cabbage

[@rdzreborn2k7kt]

I'll be getting vengeance on ps5

[@makotonarukami7468]

Yup

[@blueminddeveloper1099]

I’m only now learning that Vengeance isn’t a sequel but an enhanced port, and I own the game both physically and digitally. Guess it was a good thing I got the digital version first.

[@fishingmule3266]

“The more likely to go on sale.” It’s not random. Atlus wouldn’t put it on sale until they put Vengeance on sale, since, you know, they control when they want to put their games on sale.

[@MohammedAlHarthyTheLegend]

I really don't understand why people are this upset I mean if the original game is not removed some people might just buy it by mistake when they want Vengeance And sorry to be the gloomy guy but SMT5 for most of the JRPG gamers are not that great of a game so why losing some inferior version of a game is bad

[@vanilla8956]

"Anything a company does for profit is immoral" -people who spend their life savings buying everything that company ever sells lol I see this pattern often.

[@Pierre_vs_Joker]

Not gonna lie.. it's no big deal. Physical is a much better choice. Digital gives too much power to the Devs/Producers. Seen what happened to The Crew from Ubisoft.. nuff said, good day.

[@ABadZoroark]

The only way I see this feasibly hurting anyone are speedrunners and challenge runners, due to mechanical changes. But is it actually that big a deal? (Rhetorical question; it isn't.) SMTV was my first SMT though, and I didn't know they did re-releases like Persona too so...slightly annoyed. The level scaling in SMTV was too harsh and restrictive though, it didn't really offer anything to the experience - it just made you dump time grinding levels despite otherwise already being prepared for fights.

[@kamdenmadan3289]

SMT V afaik is the first to adopt the Persona model. Apocalypse was first considered like this, but was later to be expanded into a full blown sequel and Strange Journey had the excuse of it remastering the game and bringing it to a new system.

[@westonmeyer3110]

They don’t typically do rereleases of SMT outside of Japan. Strange Journey broke that mold a bit but it isn’t a core mainline game. SMT IV never got one and got a sequel instead.

[@ruzinus_]

I mean, I can see why people are upset, but I can't bring myself to care. The odds of someone actually buying vanilla instead of Vengeance seem much higher than the odds of someone desperately wanting to buy a digital copy of vanilla. The person who would want it is likely a collector who would want the physical version anyway, which is much cheaper. It may eventually go up in price but honestly I think thatll happen on a similar timescale to Nintendo taking down the eshop.

[@Malignantt1]

Imagine accidentally buying the deluxe smt5 the day before vengeance is out 💀💀

[@dond2377]

I cant agree that "people should know" Atlus would do this....They have NOT done this before in the case of SMT, they have in Persona 4/P4G and Persona 5/P5R. SMT 3 Nocturne took nearly a decade and a half for another release, SMT IV has no rerelease, SMT IV Apocalypse is a different game than SMT IV, also no rerelease. So, if you come for SMT, I dont think it would be an assumption that Atlus would do this with SMT specifically, no track record of it.

[@CursedShinobiClown]

Redux is a re release and the version of nocturne the USA got was the re release

[@marklamutt]

Amazon has the SMT V physical for $24.50 right now. If you're concerned about it, go buy it before it's gone!

[@Chernobog2]

I had yet to play SMT5 myself, so I found a new copy online for 20 bucks. I'll eventually buy Vengence at a later date. Personally I feel like "definitive" releases should never replace the original release.

[@Hank49716]

Macca the smtv soldier

[@classicalthrasher]

Another obvious reason: because there are bonuses available exclusively for the Switch if you played the original. And your point is valid, new players may be curious about how the first experience was.

[@Blackheartgamer1]

honestly, i feel people are thinking more of long term. ~10-20 years from now this version of the game will be rare and possibly nonexistent, with only possible remakes. Remakes tend to update the game and add or remove features "to modern audiences", which we are seeing a lot of in todays games. Physical games are cool but they break, get damaged, and go up in crazy prices. Also the idea of companies having complete control of a persons digital games rubs people the wrong way as well and if you think about it. Companies can go into your account and remove stuff you purchased with your money without a refund and even edit games. I feel this is all connected.

[@Mingodough]

I don’t get the anti preservation. The only way to preserve something is to dump the game file (rom, iso, etc) and copy paste it a crap ton of times on different hard drives. No game company is doing that so complaining about preservation is kinda dumb

[@METIS_DUBZ]

I hope there will be a safety difficulty on smt vengeance

[@holydezmondgamez1728]

The thing with me is that if someone bought the OG and deleted it to save space they basically lost what they literally paid for legally. This is just going to encourage piracy for the OG

[@AngelKnightZeo713]

You can still redownload the game even after it's delisted since a person bought it BEFORE it was delisted.

[@corey2232]

Good thing I still have my sealed physical copy.... Which probably won't be worth anything after SMT V Vengeance releases 😅

[@VeryNeil]

I want to mention, a lot of games (unless it violates the switch eshop tos) are still downloadable from your redownload list if you purchased it before the delisting. This has happened with games like Minecraft when they swapped from legacy editions to the bedrock version. So if you’ve already bought the original SMTV you probably won’t have to worry.

[@johncrang7026]

I want to be delusional and think it's because the SMT VV bonus for base SMT V is huge lol

[@ZER0H0UR333]

Well I mean look at pokemon games, just because pokemon crystal exists doesn't mean gold and silver where obsolete and feel like different games

[@makotonarukami7468]

This further confirms that O.G. V was never 100% ready due to "19-COIDV", and it makes more sense to remove it.

[@bubbasgotback431]

So I don’t think SMT V actually would go on sale because Nintendo doesn’t put their games on sale in the e-shop

[@veroanancards]

I agree with my fellow commentators: this is not a big issue. In fact, I don't think it's an issue at all. Firstly, this business decision is actually pro-consumer because it means people won't accidentally be purchasing the old/inferior version of a game on accident, which happens to be the same price as the enhanced version When it comes to game preservation, I have a decent analogy; PS2 games (ex. Persona 3) that got enhanced re-releases with more content basically co-existed with the original version, and consumers could run into the issue I mentioned previously. HOWEVER, because the game is still available physically, there is still a way to obtain it. Especially considering SMTV sold over a million copies, there is still a way to play it in its original form. Not to mention that the game was dumped online BEFORE it released and is still on the internet. TLDR; I think this decision is actually a good one, even if there might be a better solution. There are still ways to play the OG that aren't illegal anyways.

[@krispy_kornflake]

It would make no sense to keep it. Vengeance literally has the same game in it with tweaks that they could have released in an update if they wanted to. In the case of P5, Royal forces you into the new route but this one will have both the new and old one. And why are you acting like emulation doesn't exist anyway? If someone wants to see how the original played they can just get a ROM for it online. This is getting ridiculous.

[@Mister_Zoid]

I can understand the frustration, but this isnt that bad to me at least. I already have a digital copy and a physical copy of Vanilla, I am getting Vengeance on Steam.

[@raptorskilltor4554]

My copy: “whelp I guess I just have to die then”

[@shadic7208]

8:52 honestly I feel like you’re only speaking from an existing fan standpoint. People just getting into atlus games aren’t fully aware of the enhanced versions which result in these releases feeling a lil scummy. As someone who got into atlus during V’s initial release, I was interested in it bc I’d heard good things about persona but hadn’t played either of the games. It’s only now that’ve played and enjoyed the games and have joined the fandom that I’ve now had a chance to go back and fully understand how these releases work so I feel like we should hold atlus more accountable for it. 9:37 Edit really shouldn’t pause the video and write comments bc it may be addressed later 😅

[@nameless-user]

If they offered a discount towards “upgrading” to Vengeance for Switch owners, the controversy would be null and void. Death Stranding had a similar situation on PC, yet they gave PC players the option to upgrade to the Director’s Cut for something like $15. Making Vengeance exclusively full-price stings, maybe a little less if you’re switching (heh) to a new platform.

[@zoltanszalai218]

Ok, that does it. All ATLUS games are to be considered Early access games on release from now on. Wait 5+ years for the finished version to come out, save yourself the money.

[@astreakaito5625]

Can you imagine if piracy didn't exist and there would be no way for people to play the original (superior) Strange Journey..

[@jeezycreezy4220]

The only people who are really affected are people who never bought the original version. If they haven't already bought it by now, they most likely weren't going to anyway. This whole thing is honestly a whole lot of nothing. Wanting to play the vanilla version of SMTV is like wanting to watch the theatrical versions of Lord of the Rings.

[@urameshitrev1851]

This is a complicated situation, because I can understand both sides myself. On one hand, yes this makes the original feel like a Beta Test, regardless of how people felt about the original releases quality and I feel it should stay up (just maybe at a lower price, but I dont know if Nintendo is lenient with that sort of thing). But I also understand that Vengeance is just gonna be the overall better package, regardless if the new Vengeance Story is good or not, there is no doubt going to be more content, and the original dlc that SMTV had is now just free with the game (minus Dagda, Konhana Sakuya and the Mitamas). So It's a little hard to see people going back to OG SMTV, compared to situations like Persona 4 vs P4 Golden, Persona 5 vs P5 Royal and Strange Journey vs SJ Redux. But the most Baffiling thing about all this, is if you buy SMT Nocturne HD, Atlus left in all versions of that game, The Original, Maniax and Chronicles version. So I don't know why Atlus became Anti-Preservation suddenly lol.

[@gren_3352]

I could not care less about it getting delisted. I lalready have my copy and love it but I dont see anyone that would say "I want to play a worse version of a game that I played" as you said that somone might want to play the original to appriciate the remake more. And playing it now will most likely spoil any hype that you can have for the vengance. I dont see that happening. The only logical reason to still want og smt v is if you are a collector but I dont see any sense in collecting virtual games too. So if you want smt v just buy a physical now or soon after a vengance?

[@sinisis2000]

i think theres a reason why persona 5 (20) is still up, and thats becsuse its SIGNIFICANTLY cheaper than p5r (60) plus its also a “playstation hits” so i suspect that theres more factors at played

[@platformingames2967]

Smt v gets updates and bug fixes anyway the only way to play 1.0 versions of games is by having a physical copy just think of the cannon of creation as a application update that is unavoidable unless you have the physical version cause console store won’t let you play the 1.0 version of games from there stores and they come with the updates anyway also elden ring has updates which drastically change stats so this a thing that happens and the same could have happened if they keep smt5 on stores

[@vanilla8956]

Including all the previous DLC for free is not "more expensive." But it's funny seeing one of the best business decisions possible for both the average consumer and company and then we have to pretend it's bad because you think they would have put the original version on sale after releasing the new version. This ignores the entire point of sales existing. Sales are not charity for the needy, sales are to increase profit by getting more purchases than it would have received at full price. Even if they left it on the store there would be ZERO reason to put this version on sale and direct any traffic away from Vengeance. That's a business equivalent of shooting yourself in the foot by competing with your own product. Lastly, word of mouth and intellectual property awareness are the most important thing a game franchise can ever have. It is a million times more important for the average consumer to understand what you're selling, and what people mean when they hear their friends say to check out "SMT 5", than it is for you to be able to pay extra money for a version with an obscured mini map. Ask the average joe about the titles "Persona 5 Strikers" and "Shin Megami Tensei V Vengeance" and ask them to figure out from the names which one is a spin off and which one is the full main game. Brand confusion is a nail biting inducing, horrific situation for any publisher. The Wii U itself is the most gruesome example. But with that said, even if we agree and there is some kind of true moral weight to having the option to pay extra for or a rom I can search up in 5 minutes, that isn't "preservation" anyway because you don't own the game, only the license for a copy, even then how could you ever expect any company with a brain to purposely harm their brand awareness, word of mouth, and sales numbers just for that ideal? tl;dr the pros far outweigh the cons so much that I need to see any reasoning at all why something that helps both the company and new fans should be axe'd just because hypothetically some guy will want to pay extra to pretend he's preserving a game, when really it's just a license to a worse, more expensive version. You are not supporting preservationism. Real preservationists avoid digital licenses like the plague and will not want to touch the relisted license anyways. Did you forget about "The Crew"? But you know who likes to go on the eshop and click purchase? Average joe shmoe who just heard about a cool new game from his buddy on VC, and isn't literate in the fan community. The scenario you're defending just doesn't exist, its hypothetical nobody.

[@junior2k827]

the original game is gonna be on the updated version of this game

[@halowaffle25]

You know if you think about it, this is a pretty pro-piracy move on Atlus's part, huh? ☠

[@shinyanakagawa8241]

why would you pirate the original when you can play it on Vengeance with added QoL stuff? Pirating Vengeance would make more sense than pirating the original game.

[@Alex_Barbosa]

@@shinyanakagawa8241 right?

[@V2ULTRAKill]

​@@shinyanakagawa8241you werent there for strange journey redux were you

[@shinyanakagawa8241]

@@V2ULTRAKill why even bring Sjr up when it is not the same issue. Bringing vanilla Nocturne, vanilla P3 or Imagine would make more sense to argue about than bringing up Sjr.

[@V2ULTRAKill]

@@shinyanakagawa8241 SJR is the perfect example of WHY this is an issue

[@skyFxd]

i just don't understand why they didn't do this to vanilla p5

[@alsaiduq4363]

You can't play vanilla p5 on p5 royal. You can ignore the new additions from royal

[@shawklan27]

Probably as to do with how popular the game is or just because Atlus are daft as shit

[@shinyanakagawa8241]

Because it is totally a different situation. You can play both original smt v route and Vengeance route on Smt VV. Having both vanilla and VV on Switch would only cause confusion to consumers who are not aware of this stuff. It is the same thing why we dont have access to the original Nocturne since Maniax is the most played version before HD Remastered version is released. You cant even play Maniax Chronicle prior to HD Remastered unless you get yourself a copy of the game, genuine or pirated or emulated.

[@skyFxd]

@@shinyanakagawa8241 that makes sense i guess

[@jesusceren1594]

We should receive some kind of compensation if we acquired SMTV

[@jonathangoodwin5609]

It does make sense, given that Vengeance will have the original game as well. No point in selling the same game twice when no one is gonna be buying the original anymore.

[@erickgramir]

Agreed, I mean why not just leave it up? The people who want VV will get VV and the people who will be curious enough to go back and try regular V now can’t.. it’s just dumb

[@sauceinmyface9302]

I'm in the "Don't mind" camp. It's less confusing. Also, this rerelease follows more of the "expansion" style rather than a remaster or remake. If you buy vengeance, and just play creation, you can think of it like playing the base game but after it got another patch. As much as it sucks that you can't roll back the patch, the vast majority of games don't let you access old versions of the same game, so it's not just Atlus here. That being said, I think this really should've been presented as a DLC. I don't mind if you only sell the new old game+expansion on the store, but people that already bought in really don't deserve to buy the game all over again for a patch and an improved story. It's not even like its for a whole new system.

[@SmileySadFaceHD]

The scenario of people wanting to go back to play the original to "appreciate the changes" is beyond niche. I will always be of the mind that a definitive version should directly replace the original on storefronts to avoid confusion and leave way more people who wouldve given the franchise a chance directly dissapointed and frustrated because of Atlus bad naming schemes. Most people still do not even understand if this is a sequel or not.

[@mikebrown4956]

Nintendo hardly ever discounts their games on the EShop. Zelda BOTW is still $59.99 on the Eshop right now with TOTK only being $10 more. Since Nintendo has the final say on MSRB I think this was the best decision.

[@kerryvanskonsol792]

Eshop really scam place, even atlus refuse sell from online, maybe half industry games who try sell games from eshop end up bankrupt and this is what Nintendo doing

[@leejones2113]

Don't care if they d list it. They are coming out with a better version.

[@raikaria3090]

I mean it does make sense, SMTV V has SMT v + DLC included anyway; with more content. People could essentially get scammed by buying the wrong one. It does suck for preservation of the original. I mean I have the original anyway but I can see WHY Atlus is doing it.

[@michaeldelloro3148]

Man...as someone who has a physical copy of the og SMT V and all the DLC bought and downloaded in my backlog. I hope the dlc for smt v: vengeance goes on sale a while after its release.

[@12852]

im just glad the game is coming out everywhere so i can play it cus i dont have switch

[@MrTheDvok]

I get what you're trying to say, but since the original SMT V is a Switch exclusive and in "Nintendo Fashion" they both cost 60 dollars without any discount on the former, I think this one is kinda of a non-issue. Plus, Vengeance already has the Path of Creation included so technically it is still vanilla SMT V. The only thing I could blame ATLUS is the fact that they won't give any discount to previous owner of the original.

[@douglasbriel6103]

Thanks. I have bought an Atlas game. Now I don't think I will.

[@juularian248]

I just don't get why Vengeance could not have been a dlc instead of a bundle. Capcom use to do the same with the Monster Hunter franchise, but nowadays it's sold like almost any other game in the industry

[@Nintentips.]

They definetly did this so people don’t accidently buy the wrong version at launch of veagence plus it doesn’t matter since the og game is on the vengeance cart anyway.

[@DaidusIII]

We could stop buying their games. But let's be honest. That'd be almost too hard. I love SMT & Persona too much.

[@bartass6877]

I can't believe that Jack Frost have a YT Channel 😮

[@Xenosaga]

It’s not a few days before, it’s literally the day before Vengeance launches 😢

[@larrywoolfolk8224]

Does that mean my switch with base SMTV gonna fetch me some pretty coin >_>

[@kamdenmadan3289]

proabably in 5 years, once the Collecters and those who dont like the changes made in Vengence buy up the old stock.

[@alsaiduq4363]

I don't like that Atlus is doing this but i also don't care if SMTV is being deslited because even the current version of SMTV was changed and made easier. The base version of SMTV, aka 1.0 , doesn't exist anymore outside of physiscal copies. They made the Demon castle dungeon worse. So at end of the day, i don't care that SMTV is being deslisted for a superior version

[@radical_rat]

One potential issue here is that the game AND DLC are being delisted. I never bought the original DLC, and that option is now being taken away. I could buy it now, but I plan on buying Vengeance anyway, so very little point. But it is not inconceivable that someone could end up with the original, say a confused parent buys the wrong physical version secondhand, and be potentially willing to buy $20 of DLC, but not a full $60 re-release. Weird edge case? Sure. But an easily avoidable one

[@Binambik]

Same me ! Good point!

[@evamiezs6801]

I dont see the issue. The small minority who wants to go back and play it can get it physically. Its not that rare and is like $30. Im sure Vengeance will feel different, but different in the sense that im sure is better.

[@werevin649]

i mean, of course they're delisting it. vengeance has the story of both the original and vengeance. Why would you ever need the original anymore

[@gnockgnock6965]

Square Enix did the same thing with Final Fantasy I to VI when the Pixel Remasters came out.

[@bernardwalsh8444]

Yeah but those were very old games, SmtV is relatively recent, still surprising though.

[@gnockgnock6965]

@@bernardwalsh8444 Sanae meme needs to come with a "The PSP isn't retro, right?" Because I'm talking about the PSP versions of those games also being released on Steam.

[@bernardwalsh8444]

@@gnockgnock6965 Huh didn't know they were on PSP, that's definitely unfortunate for anyone... although emulation does exist thankfully at least

[@kevinjhsn9253]

I bought the base game dlc thinking they won't be on vengeance and delisted from eshop... T-T

[@timothykirby4406]

What do you mean they don’t want people buying the original at a cheaper price? They can already do that right now (before Vengeance releases.) People have had years to play the original release. If they didn’t buy it by now they clearly aren’t that interested. Instead I’d argue that people like me, who bought the original on Switch at release should get a discount on the re-release. I’m planning to get Vengeance on PS4 because I’m not dealing with that crappy Switch performance this time around and I feel like Atlus should have had a way to reward their true fans.

[@aceofspades9610]

5:14 Wrong! I recently got vengeance for $40 with steel book

[@kanchomerocks12]

This situation feels very similar to Digimon cyber sleuth's delisting, though that one was even worse.

[@BlueLightningSky]

This should have been DLC but since it's not You know what this is like: Selling Super Street Fighter next to Street Fighter. And nothing is more scummy than selling Street Fighter at a discount when Super is already out.

[@theworld6710]

I don’t especially mind it. Vengeance will most likely outclass it in every way. But it is reflective of just how terrible the situation is. People paid full price for SMT 5 just for a new, improved, complete version of the game to come out later. So complete and superior as for the original to have no value, and it’ll likely be delisted with little issue. All while people who owned the original get little to nothing. I’m never buying an SMT game on launch again, it’s clearly not worth it.

[@Matthew_Murray]

I can understand the reasoning behind the decision it does make sense, but I still don’t like how it limits options for consumers maybe I want to play SMT V because I have only ever played Persona games now come June I would need to spend $60 on SMT VV when I probably could have gotten base SMT V on sale for $20-$30 on the eShop.

[@gary.420]

Can't they at the very least release the vanilla DLC for free? so that the people that bought the original get a chance to get a "complete edition" of vanilla.

[@Mikolaj1334]

Price of physical copies will skyrocket.

[@sombrego2260]

I'm sorry but I think it was the right move to do. Simply because with how shops work and how the game look and sound very similar to the original they would have had a lot of players buying the first game thinking it's the new version and then be disappointed, confused etc. I get that the new game doesn't have the very exact old version of the first game but it still keeps most of it as is so I'm fine with it. I really don't see what realistic alternative they could have done to avoid that issue.

[@iloveemiliaandrem9443]

With the level scaling changes i feel like i do less Damage and take more damage than i did in base smt V. farming Mitamas with Almighty attacks isn't really an option My juiced up level 99 shiva i transferred does just enough damage with Tandava to take out level 30 mitamas. I'll probably need multiple buffs to efficiently farm higher level Mitamas in the mid to late game now.

[@azurekite3870]

man,i know what mean.that vengance seems much harder and on the casual setting and the bosses feel too tanky and spam annoying moves too.

[@explosiver]

They really need to make these rereleases DLC. That would solve all of this very easily