Is Persona The Modern Face of JRPGs? | Dumb Atlus Twitter Arguments

[@MarshSMT]

Regarding Ryuji, i think it's because of his delinquent look, specifically the hair, that they beat on him so much for laughs. Having dyed blonde hair like that used to be banned in all schools as I understand it, it still is in some. I feel like it could be a cultural thing that doesn't have the same impact unless you grew up there, so I try to look at it through that lens, but it could also just be bad writing

[@williamknight52]

I’ve heard a reason Japanese people don’t like ryuji is because his personality goes agains social norms in Japan

[@plvto1]

Isn't that.. The point..? The entirety of the Phantom Thieves are supposed to be outcasts so.. How did that fly over their head?

[@RedJLP]

⁠@@plvto1 The same reason why the harem route and powerful and/or *well endowed* women are popular: the general audience doesn’t put any thought to the actual depth put into the world and narrative. I’d argue that as a result, Hashino handing the role of Persona’s creative producer to Kazuhisa Wada didn’t feel like anything different to them because they’re the ones he’s playing to only for business purposes

[@ayveee3811]

That's so funny

[@DragonKingX78]

It would be nice if SMT1, 2, if..., 4, 4A, Strange Journey, DDS1+2, Devil Summoner, Soul Hackers, Persona 1+2s, etc. were on PS4/5, Switch, X-Box, etc.

[@kanchomerocks12]

Don't forget devil survivor 1+2

[@localidiot450]

god i want either a raidou series remake or at least a modern port, dude.

[@RBNinja]

I can't look at SMT Nocturne objectively. I still list it as my favorite JRPG of all time. And it introduced me to the series. There hasn't been a JRPG since that has a more satisfying normal attack than Demifiend's punch to the mouth. I think people disregard the writing in Nocturne because most of the characters you interactive with are demons and very few humans. And since people don't want to empathize with demons they pretend it doesn't exist at all. My demons in my party talk to me all the time. We finish a battle and they'll say "Yo dawg, I saw that. That shit was tight!" and then we dap each other up and sometimes they'll give me an item. The fuck else do you want?!

[@justanothershrimp1908]

Looking at Smt nocturne writing is incredible is the contrast of the darkest depths that a person can go, to funny because this demon doesn’t think like us.

[@siuchaos2606]

I like Nocturne but you have to admit that it has a mediocre story. The characters all have minimal dialogue, there are only around 5 characters in the entire story roaming around a desolate and destroyed wasteland. I mean, the demon interactions don’t really count, those are in every SMT game, they also do not comment on anything that happens in the game. Nocturne is extremely overrated, the endings are mediocre, the characters lack any depth beyond their alignments, and the presence of 0 humans only makes the world more desolate and boring. There’s nothing to fight for, in every ending other than Freedom which reverses it, all the other endings are nonsensical. Humanity is completely wiped out, why fight for Law? To save who exactly? Why fight for Chaos? To rule over just demons? Why fight for Lucifer? To be his slave to do his bidding despite being stronger than him? Nocturne really likes to pose as being deeper than it is. Now as for gameplay, graphics, aesthetics, music, those are all amazing, but im tired of people saying nocturne has a good story, because it does not.

[@markcochrane9523]

@@siuchaos2606 The story isn't that deep, but if you think Freedom was the good ending you weren't paying attention. Just like in the Chaos ending, you're only delaying the inevitable; another Conception will occur, and who's to say the world will be reset next time? Sooner or later, the world will be subject to someone's Reason.....unless you get the True Demon ending. Only by joining Lucifer to confront the Great Will can you break the cycle of stagnation and tyranny.

[@diandraaliffa2116]

My hot take is as a newcomer to SMT (currently playing through 4) is that all the mainline protagonists are really beautiful. Not in a "husbando" kinda beauty, more like a "I want to carve their likeness into a marble stone, capture every detail, and immortalize them as a work of art" kind of beauty. I wish Nahobino was real.

[@SpencerPressly]

MOM GET THE CAMERA MACCA SHOWED OFF MY TWEET

[@argoth231]

*give us a digital devil saga remaster

[@KittyKatty999]

"How about this instead?" *Casts Fires Of Senai on you*

[@DarkSeraph]

I need DDS 1 and 2 Remakes I love those games.

[@Fermin-hw5pd]

​@@KittyKatty999(Michael Afton screams)

[@JahleelSingh]

the second preview for smt 5 vengenace is out and my god, it's fantastic.

[@DragonKingX78]

Yeah, watched that last night, hope the next video is game mechanics focused.

[@BlizzardofDreams]

3 likes in 20 seconds, Markiplier fell off

[@GUMPIER]

This is kinda good

[@MidnightBikerHostility]

Huh?

[@BlizzardofDreams]

@@MidnightBikerHostility Vid opened with the Markiplier intro lol

[@MidnightBikerHostility]

​@@BlizzardofDreamslmao! I didn't even notice the first time, thank you. That's funny.

[@colliermorrissimonexi-comt8996]

Maccaplier

[@DragonKingX78]

Digital Devil Saga would have made an awesome "third pillar".

[@danielgrezda3339]

And devil survivor, and etrian odyssey, and radiant historia. If they ported and made sequels to these games they would have all the pillars they need.

[@karmskorner6430]

Y E S

[@tbnwontpop8857]

Eh. Not every game from Atlus needs to be an indefinitely running series and I felt that DDS is perfect as-is for a self-contained story. It had a story to tell and it executed it flawlessly. No need for another sequel tbh. Metaphor looks very interesting and we shouldn't pass judgment until it comes out.

[@noblegalifreyan4551]

I would like to see remakes or ports to modern platforms.

[@armandostockvideos8386]

Third pillar? Didn't that serie flop? XD

[@demi-fiendoftime3825]

7:45 We're not there yet but I do think we're going in that direction as the past few games haven't exactly met the numbers everyone and not just square enix were expecting. I think Final Fantasy is slowly but surely becoming the old person's JRPG as when was the last time you heard a late Zoomer or Gen alpha kid talk about Final Fantasy outside of the context that's something their older sibling or Parent plays. 13, 14 1.0 and 15 (I liked 13 and 15) did burn alot of bridges and while 7 Rebirth is them returning to the roots of their peak with modern gameplay Final Fantasy isn't capturing alot of young teen fans like it did in the 90s and early 00s which is why 16 was such a departure from what came before to hopefully get the attention of younger generation despite the M rating but that's not what happened Games like Persona 5, Xenoblade Chronicles, and Fire Emblem are what have been capturing their hearts and minds instead. Final Fantasy is still the face of JRPGs but strongly believe its in the twilight years of being such and think it's likely going to lose its Crown in the 2030s unless they can make another game like 7 or 10 that captures the minds and hearts of a generation instead of trend chasseing dark fantasy like Game of Thrones and the Witcher like 16 did.

[@DragonKingX78]

I haven't cared about Final Fantasy since they stopped with turn based combat.

[@Doppelgamer211]

Okay but i actually do agree with the "SMT if... is good" statement. I think its my favorite of the SNES trilogy, at least. If your a fan of pure DRPG dungeon crawlers, if... is just that distilled into its purest form.

[@MidnightBikerHostility]

YES! thank you! SMT IF... is also one of my favorites.

[@autumnoraki]

Thank you for agreeing with me we SMT:if fans have to stay together

[@MidnightBikerHostility]

@@autumnoraki For real i agree! I saw Smt If... mentioned in the thumbnail and just had to look for my kin in the comments. Glad to not be dissapointed.

[@autumnoraki]

​@@MidnightBikerHostility Lol, when I saw the thread I knew what I had to say. I'm a crazy defender of SMT:if through all its horseshit

[@MidnightBikerHostility]

@@autumnoraki I was doing just fine just by myself on the game but had to quit on the infamous sloth dungeon, but only because i needed to give up my emulator, rom and other stuff for phone memory space. And i also was just too lazy to find time to look up a guide to deal with the dungeon gimmick. Would play it again though.

[@demi-fiendoftime3825]

12:29 Nocturne is my favorite because I just love its vibe I spent my whole childhood chasing the feeling Hollow Bastion gave me in Kingdom Hearts 1 and never got it again until playing Nocturne in 2013 Like after my first trip to the labyrinth I was screaming YES THIS IS WHAT I WANTED!!!!

[@DragonKingX78]

I do love the strange atmosphere/vibe of the game.

[@gooseherdez336]

11:17 I drew the sweating towel guy version of Fatlus and I agree, Fatlus was a dope meme.

[@noblegalifreyan4551]

My only gripe with persona being the face of JRPGs and even Atlas RPGs to an extent is that people who only played Persona 5 will always compare every subsequent game ad nauseum to p5. Like a get P5 was a landmark standard but it seriously is just creating this impossible expectations.

[@tbnwontpop8857]

What are you even talking about? Comparisons are constantly being made to previous entries within the community and P5 fans do not have a monopoly on them. I constantly see the criticism of P5 where people say that the PT don't act like friends as much as the Investigation Team from P4. You have an outrageously uninformed take lmao

[@GhostofaSkippedFuneralL]

persona 6 will be a bigger semi open world game. More expansive than p5, but also probably like $150 after all said and done with expansions. Then they're gonna milk tf out of it with spin offs and probably a re release in 3 years.

[@noblegalifreyan4551]

​@@tbnwontpop8857 You're in a circle which only discusses Atlas games. There's more nitpicking My idea is that it's because a lot of people who got into the megaton games is through p5 so they tend to use that as the basis for all other games going forward. You don't know how many people I see comparing P3 reload to p5. How every game that has jazz or some jazz inspiration as having p5 vibes. My basis is due to the average gaming audience who doesn't partake in the series often but rather plays whatever is popular.

[@bearVshark100]

Right. It bugs me that every megaten creator on KZbin these days seems to have started the series with p5. I got into the series super late with p4g but it doesn’t bother me when a game isn’t like the one I love.

[@astrea555]

No.. no, yes? Persona is the face JRPGs for sure. What people usually mean by JRPG these days: turn based and anime, neither of which are part of Final Fantasy's dna anymore, and Persona is arguably more critically acclaimed in modern times. Not even a Persona fan, btw.

[@JF-vz1ju]

Dragon Quest is right there and is way more representative of the JRPG genre than Persona ever has been or will be.

[@raven.4815]

@@JF-vz1ju DQ (along with Octopath and Bravely Default to some extent) is the face of classic style/old school JRPGs, Persona is deffo THE face of modern turn-based JRPGs, same with Tales of Arise or even Xenoblade, only that they're the face of modern action JRPGs. (Yeah, I know Xenoblade is more of a hybrid, but still) Every generation has its own "face" so to speak, just as FF was in the late 90's for turn-based games and the Tales Of series for action combat since.. like forever, sadly, I think YS games should be representative and the standard of action JRPGs but oh well, sales and brand recognition rule at the end of the day...

[@morriganrenfield8240]

You'd be wrong. Ask someone who doesn't play jrpgs and they will answer final fantasy.

[@SuperGamerGuy64644]

I'd love to see this be a series though it might be something to do every few months or so

[@bravetree]

Ok here is mine. If they ever remake persona 1 it should be significantly changed in both gameplay and story. Keeping the themes of the original game while reworking the side cast to work better within those themes would be nice to see. (Not saying persona 1 should adopt the calendar or social link system from the future persona games)

[@DarkSeraph]

I want a P2 duology remade cause there were a lot points/subplots were left hanging.

[@ajmoment8091]

I don't think there is a universe where we get a full remake of P1 that isn't a fundamentally different experience. The original game is just inherently designed on a foundation that is very counter to what the modern standard of the series, and frankly most game design as a whole has become. I love it, but if they make a faithful remake of it I think the majority of people really wouldn't like P1 and I can't say they're unjustified for thinking that, and I doubt Atlus wouldn't catch onto that much. That said, this is Atlus we're talking about, their next decision could very well be remaking P1 but making it even more cryptic and unintuitive and I don't think a single person whose followed them for a while could say they're surprised.

[@darkhorse744]

Real glad I don't frequent ATLUS Twitter. Sonic Twitter is more than enough obnoxious to me.

[@IltizioNic]

i think 1 and 2 need a remake infinitely more than 4, but if 4 ever gets a remake i hope they call it Persona 4 Re-Run seeing the "R" trend

[@Linoli_salt]

Strange Journey is the best

[@MILDMONSTER1234]

Strange Journey has a great story but boring combat

[@theadhdagenda_668]

i think the third pillar they refer to is metaphor

[@tbnwontpop8857]

7:38 lol Macca even if it hasn't already, it's well on its way to doing so, and very quickly I might add. Every major Persona entry has broken previous records consistently while Final Fantasy is consistently falling off in numbers with every major entry. If it hasn't happened already it will happen _very_ soon. It's not as outlandish a claim as you might think it is because it has a lot of truth to it. Final Fantasy is largely a millennial brand and SE has failed and is continuing to fail to market it properly to the modern audiences of Gen Z and Gen Alpha. SE have gotten complacent with the brand and it's doing so poorly now compared to 10+ years ago. Even now SE has been too embarrassed to reveal the sales of Rebirth and we still don't know how it performed overseas, but the Japanese version apparently sold less than Lightning Returns and that's _not_ a good sign. Unless a drastic shift in direction, marketing, and leadership happens at the company, we are facing a reality where Final Fantasy is actually going to die, man.

[@raven.4815]

True, being a zoomer, it's hard enough to find someone who likes JRPGs outside of Persona and maybe Xenoblade (nothing against those series or the people that like 'em, in fact, I quite like 'em too), but, it's even harder to find a zoomer that likes at least one FF. Never knew why Square hasn't bothered to cater to my generation, millenials now are moving on to other series due to their discontent with the latter entries, and zoomers mostly care about Persona, Xenoblade and maybe SMT. P.S: Afaik, FF Rebirth sold 2M so far more or less, not bad for a JRPG that only came out for one console that many people still don't have in their homes.

[@aaronarce1498]

I really like this his format, absolutely would watch another video, maybe take it a bit more serious? But it’s ok as it is 👌🏼

[@pancholegaspi7231]

While I'm not making you do this, something you could do is talk about the demon models in 3D Megaten games, its history, and why so many P5 demons are appearing a lot in modern Megaten games (which replaced many demons/personas in P3R). I am very curious about it.

[@TheZeroDestroyer]

Digital Devil Saga was great. They should focus on Kuzonoha as third pillar.

[@autumnoraki]

Thanks for listening to my bad opinion on SMT:if. Appreciate it

[@mineboom7377]

First commenters only have one joke and it's awful

[@plvto1]

they've never had any creative or funny jokes

[@DragonKingX78]

If they wanted Soul Hackers 2 to be a third pillar, then they would spent more money and time developing it. Though I think the game had issues still love Ringo, wish they treated her and her game better.

[@leosee-through6147]

I gotta be honest i was never a fan of the random encounters from old fashioned turn based rpg and turn based games in general, so i never tried to play smt. My friend reccomended me digital devil saga and i loved it, it had some dated gameplay for sure but smt made me appreciate more of this genre and im forever grateful.

[@mattfrank389]

I think Persona 1 and 2 should get ports first and then down the road get remakes just to preserve the original in some way since i think remakes will change those games to be more in line with the modern games . I honestly want the next remake to be Persona 4 since i loved how reload turned out, and i would love to see the tv style on par with reload and royal plus Persona 4 is my favorite so I really wannna see how it turns out and if I don't like it then I can just replay golden. Thats my hot take

[@73juro]

make more!!! it's fun and you reading things out is fun to hear

[@bearVshark100]

My hot take is that persona 5 is ten hours of tutorials. That’s not bad for newcomers but I already know how to play persona games, I don’t need a whole cutscene telling me how demon fusions and the one more system works.

[@raven.4815]

More games desperately need an option for skipping tutorials!

[@nishquikpops]

Didn't reply to the tweet but my hot take it I have no idea why people are sleeping on Metaphor

[@GhostofaSkippedFuneralL]

Name is regarded for 1

[@Really_here]

I'm not. It's my number one most anticipated game of the year. If I could I already would've pre-ordered it

[@JF-vz1ju]

I don't care because Vengeance will be better. Also just not interested in playing another social sim Calendar system game. I don't trust Atlus to make it anything more than Fantasy Persona 5 and will be waiting until post release reviews and footage to even consider being interested.

[@ajmoment8091]

I feel like Metaphor is just failing to make itself stand out next to Atlus's other offerings. It's their next big IP, but I feel like looking at it most people just see SMT but with more Persona in it.

[@raven.4815]

@@ajmoment8091 Can't cater to SMT fans because it's too much "Persona-like" and can't cater to Persona fans for being its own thing. Game was doomed from the start sadly, but hey, at least they're gonna give us a one of a kind banger I guess

[@Kumaclaws]

I don’t see why Persona and SMT can’t coexist together. It’s fun to have time to relax inbetween grinding, and it’s also fun to use SMT’s customization/fusion to make an unstoppable team prepared for any unfair spells thrown at you. If only Atlus thought the same :/

[@raven.4815]

They can! It's just that they have vastly different fandoms. In one hand, you got people who love challenge and like thought provoking worlds/plots (SMT), and in the other, people who're there for wholesome moments between the characters and simple but satisfactory combat while listening to top tier videogame music. Different strokes for different folks and that's okay

[@kamdenmadan3289]

@@raven.4815 Yeah, I play SMT for the multiple routes and Story, while I play Persona as a High School Sim.

[@DiuLei619]

For Ryuji, for me personally, i'm not really into him, because he acts like a delinquent, shows this "WHA'CHU LOOKING AT HUH YOU PUNK? WANNA FIGHT?" kind of attitude until P5R's 3rd semester, he's way too loud, & kinda arrogant especially when fame get over his head. Maybe this is why? Here's my own hot take that can caused me to lose arms & tongue : P4's main casts is my least fav out of all Persona Games Main Casts because of 2 characters... Yes, not just 1, 2... Yes, the obvious answer is Teddie, but the other 1? Yukiko? Sorry, no, it is Chie... Chie, at 1 time, almost become my fav, i like her straightforwardness, she's a tomboy, & ready to help her friends who are in trouble, but what made me goes 180 is for what she did towards Yosuke... She tends to harass & abuse Yosuke, especially money related. While true some of those abuse happens because of Yosuke himself is the guilty 1, but other than that..... Nope, i just can't.....

[@raven.4815]

Yeah, never liked Ryuji as well, like, the dude's fighting the good fight but he's an arrogant prick as well. Junpei is da man tho

[@kamdenmadan3289]

In regards to P4, I honestly only care about the Mid-Late game trio of Kanji, Rise, and Naoto. I honestly either dont care or annoyed by Chie, Yukiko, and Yosuke.

[@alexbdagger]

they should have made devil survivor 3 as the third pillar

[@TheZeroDestroyer]

I think they should do a souls like smt entry.

[@DarkSeraph]

Raidou Kuzunoha's gameplay with Soulsborne elements/setting would be cool

[@MILDMONSTER1234]

Normally you’d get a lot of shit for this kinda take but I actually agree

[@KnightGamer724]

I'd like it to be like Code Vein but your partner is your demon.

[@plvto1]

​@@MILDMONSTER1234 I don't know why they would, because it could be a great idea if executed well

[@raven.4815]

Couldn't agree more, I think there's plenty of room for Souldborne/Souls-like fans. I mean, they already love dark fantasy settings and complex worlds/plots, SMT is basically all of that but in an anime format.

[@klaus.sfc01official30]

This title implies good twitter arguments and i just cannot believe that.

[@shadowmaksim]

I guess as far as mainstream Japanese RPGs...sure...maybe? Though I guess "Final Fantasy" would probably fit the bill more, at least here in the West. Probably would be more "Dragon Quest" in Japan. But as far as niche Japanese RPGs go, I'm leaning on saying no. Then again, who even would be? Despite how they are viewed by the mainstream crowd, there's a diverse variety of genres, styles, and themes on display that it's hard to really pick a representative. Of course, my biases lean towards a certain selection but nothing definitive. That's about all I got to say. Don't really feel all that strongly about any of the other takes.

[@GhostofaSkippedFuneralL]

I sure hope not. Sega has disgusting re release and dlc practices that put even Electronic Arts to shame.

[@orngcreator6115]

I like Mecca so much I don’t even skip the ads 😊

[@TheGameShelf]

Damn, now I kinda wanna make a video about this but with Fire Emblem opinions (Totally original idea I'm not stealing from you)

[@Macca]

Steal from me Continue the chain

[@jediguardiankyle]

13:45 I have watched videos on SMT and I still don’t know if I could tell you what that stuff is about lmao I’m now ready to be roasted for only playing persona

[@dominicdelligatti]

Anyone know what the song around the 13 minute mark is?

[@HemborgerChariot]

holy shit i'm in this wtf thanks lmao also the full name is HemborgerChariot [insert pride flag here] 13 Sentinels' Biggest Stan!

[@ajmoment8091]

Time to give my hot take: I don't think P1 should get a remake. I feel like it could absolutely use one that changes some of the more questionable design aspects like the extreme overabundance of statuses and elements or whatever the hell is going on with the dungeon designs, but frankly I can't imagine a version of P1 that is brought up to modern standards and is still recognizably itself. A lot of parts of its inherent design are just very counter to what has come to be modern standards of game design. P2, especially Innocent Sin, needs one desperately though.

[@plvto1]

Okay but at least have a P1 port if there won't be a remake. Many others (myself included) really want to play the game. I can't emulate it because my hardware isn't good enough for it, so I'd love to be able to play it on my Playstation.

[@ajmoment8091]

@@plvto1 Yeah we really need a port of P1 that has the translation and QoL of the PSP version, but doesn't mess up the atmosphere of the original. I'd love to have just a remaster of it, though I feel like chances are we'd probably just get the PSP version upscaled.

[@KittyKatty999]

I can't believe Markiplier is finally getting into SMT! I wonder what Alignments would be his favourite? XD

[@thefrubblewarrior4678]

7:30 Of course it’s overhyped, it’s most people’s first introduction to the series. First impressions leave a lasting impact.

[@SparkNitr0]

I got three things to say 1. SMT: IF should have gotten the reload treatment before P3. 2. Every port/expansion of a Persona's intro music sucks. (exception being P1PSP and FES) 3. I don't really think Atlus is homophobic, people can go ahead and prove me wrong on this. I'm curious on what people have to say about it

[@raven.4815]

Can't speak for SMT IF as I didn't play it yet. But for the other 2 points tho... P3P opening and opening song are waaay better than FES, and, as for the other one, yeah they may not be full homophobic but they did let slip up hateful shit in the past: the trans woman scene from FES (I think it also was in the OG) and the cross-dressers from P5 (they toned it down in Royal but it's still homophobic). I legit cannot see how P4 is homophobic tho, yeah, there's a conservative message all along (when it comes to the characters' development in their SLs)but I think it was and still a very progressive and queer friendly game, but, it's a product of its time and it shows.

[@MintJoyPictures]

OMG MINTJOY JUMPSCARE LOLLLL

[@Dw7freak]

Nocturne wasn't the greatest game I've played but I enjoyed it. The first time I played it was the Steam version after beating P5R and SMT4. It was fun. My only major gripe is how alienated from the rest of the cast you are, which is the opposite problem I have with 4 with the cast is too clingy until the route split.

[@jediguardiankyle]

2:44 yeah I want a P4 reload 🤣 I’m super new to persona and that was my first one I played so I’m stupid biased towards it. I also feel like starting with 3 persona changed into what it is currently so idk if I’d like revelations: persona or either persona 2 games. From what I have heard they are way different from the other ones so if they did a faithful remake idk if I’d be that enthusiastic about it

[@VoidAlone-lz8ww]

What is the song playing in the background

[@sebastianlora7904]

it’s from soul hackers 2 I think, just the BGM in the weapons shop or something like that

[@Re.verseChaos]

Jack Bros for the Virtual Boy is the only good thing to come out of the SMT franchise.

[@triwolfblade8614]

This was funny would watch again!

[@bearberserker]

First time I've heard of Fatlus.😅

[@heptra6737]

I think that Atlus seriously thought that Soul Hackers 2 will really be third pillar because it was the first time atlus release a modern game that can be played almost at all platform and also simultaneously worldwide release (This is Atlus we talking about, it is a HUGE deal). But after knowing Soul Hackers 2 numbers or maybe after-game-production they think it doesn't have a formula to be a good "pillar".

[@sinisis_sinisis]

7:34 i want to see your face when the launch sales of persona 6 severely overshadow the dwindling sales of the recent ff7 rebirth and ff16. Face of RPG’s? no, Dragon quest is. Modern however? yeah.

[@DSoulA3]

SMT5 VENGEANCE is what should have been out first. It felt like its only been a year but really its been 2. The gameplay is great and I'm sure V's will be even better. But the story was lacking and I'm disappointed your ending was a choice rather than determined by what you did throughout the game. Its why I was so careful in choosing which demon to side with during those conflict quest. With V's story though, for one thing the characters are more involved to the point where you can play as them...atleast in combat. Regardless, I do hope we get new endings and not have all these new features be window dressing.

[@sebastianalarcon817]

Atlus and Persona are the face of modern triple A turn based jrpgs. To me at least, since SE is not longer invested in making them even if they are still so good at turn based games (Octopath? Bravely Default? DQXI?).

[@tbnwontpop8857]

Nah their HD-2D department is still rolling out titles and we've had a few recently (Live A Live, Triangle Strategy, Octopath 2). They also still have at least one more planned with DQ3 Remake. I don't think turn based is going anywhere at SE, especially after the explosive success of BG3 highlighting that zoomers can still be interested in the genre.

[@sebastianalarcon817]

@@tbnwontpop8857 that’s why I said triple A, Full 3D FF7 rebirth like titles. Square is doing great turn based titles but they don’t invest nearly as much money in them anymore.

[@brub1738]

No way it’s marketpliers

[@juniperglades8932]

Yeah, I’m a fan of SMT. Some Mid Takes 😅

[@markcochrane9523]

4:58 Let's be real, "having heart" is more of a Persona thing. SMT games are about having soul.

[@fancyman847]

Devil summoner should go back to the detective style

[@jediguardiankyle]

What’s persona 4 discourse 😅 I feel like I’m missing something here

[@dlo9747]

My hot take would be that people meat ride Strange Journey too much lol. Im not calling the game bad or anything I just found it to be kinda mid, especially the exploration which is doggy doo-doo. I haven't played much of mainline SMT besides a little bit of Nocturne and SMT V. (Mainly a Persona fan with 4 being my personal favorite)

[@ArrancarAngel52]

What's the P4 discourse? This video was a great lesson for me on the online debacles of Atlus lol

[@eurickrodriguez121]

Kanji's sexuality, Naoto being trans or not, and other dumb stuff

[@ajmoment8091]

It's like an anual tradition of the persona community that once someone mentions Kanji or Naoto every online Persona space just becomes unusable for the next month as people reiterate the same debate about Kanji's sexuality and Naoto's gender that they've been saying for over a decade now.

[@kierenbuckley370]

what does "modern face of JRPGs" mean? mainstream popularity? that would be Pokemon not Persona

[@Mavuika_Gyaru]

Pokémon gets taken out of these kinds of conversations. Like when people talk about influential anime, Pokémon isn't brought up

[@KWABOTY]

Pokemon is its own genre

[@JF-vz1ju]

It's either Pokemon or Dragon Quest. Probably not Megami Tensei and absolutely not Persona.

[@Mavuika_Gyaru]

@@JF-vz1ju dragon quest 11 is great but it's definitely nowhere near as main stream as persona

[@MrWanton16]

@@Mavuika_Gyaru Isn't DQ bigger than Persona in JP tho? Like I recall that its so popular that they don't release titles on school days so folks don't skip class

[@808voo]

Hi maccaplier big fan

[@georgehater8370]

Lemme do my own hot take, atlus lost the best thing that made smt good. The spin offs Smt 3 and 5 were both great at best but no where compared to the story and game play of strange journey( it was great) DDs, devil summoner and potential the radiou games They have way more personality then main line ever did ( aside from 4 but not 4 a)

[@MILDMONSTER1234]

Lol you think strange Journey has better gameplay then 5? Lol …. SJ isn’t even a spin off it’s mainline

[@georgehater8370]

@@MILDMONSTER1234 maybe not better gameplay but the story was way better then smt v story( and it’s a spin off as it doesn’t carry a numerical name and like other games has its own title and gameplay showing its branched off from main line) Plus I enjoyed its gameplay a lot, yes it was Grindy and at times slow but it was fun

[@radical_rat]

Technically, Persona 1/2 already got their remakes on PSP. After Persona 3 Reload, Persona 4 is just next in line. But also, 1/2 should actually get priority for real because y'know. They're the only two you aren't allowed to buy on current systems in any form.

[@HallowMoonShadow]

My spicy take is Persona 5's OST & Lyn's vocals in particular are ridiculously overrated. The OST for Soul Hackers 2 meanwhile is completely slept on and has some absolute bangers (Like the COMP SMITH theme that was playing throughout the video!)

[@asomelord]

In regards to the SMT/Persona>Final Fantasy... I definitely disagree with that take to an extent. I feel like Final Fantasy has abandoned the turn based system of it's roots and i would struggle to call the newer games JRPG's (I'd say they're more Action games)... but they're still synonymous with the genre

[@acebreaker7]

Soooooo action rpgs

[@starsong3]

another youtuber has a interesting video on ryuji, kanji, and what she describes as values dissonance that explains why they're so unpopular in Japan versus the west--how their breaking of social norms is much less acceptable to the Japanese audience

[@kl0764]

Atlus is DEFINITELY the face of modern *turn based* RPGs. Idc about sales numbers, modern Pokémon games are garbage

[@S-treme]

pokemon gameplay was kinda trash after 90s, just take people to stop justify the gameplay of 80s when old fans die

[@charnalk5572]

That is just being objectively wrong, as much as I hate pokemon's slow ahhh gameplay it is a lot deeper and well thought out than Persona. Enough so that it works both for a story campaign and competitive.

[@KaelaNassah]

​@@charnalk5572Yeah people only call Pokémon's gameplay trash because they just play the campaign made for children while spamming potions and playing in switch mode

[@S-treme]

@@charnalk5572 while pokemon have more complex gameplay than persona,dont have anything hard enough for try use the useless status aliments attacks or use buff and debuff than grind pokemon to high level and spam the attack enemy is weak and to watch long pokemon animation and only see low damage of your pokemon.

[@MidnightBikerHostility]

Pokemon can suck the most hairy parts of my balls. Specially competitive pokemon.

[@jaygo6390]

SMT V, Persona 4 Golden and 13 Sentinels are the best Atlus games 👍🏿

[@nazarchap4225]

Soul Hacker 1 was never good. The only decent thing is setting and somewhat story. Gameplay is very dated, characters are dry except for Six and Nemissa, an really there aren't any things that make me come back to the game compared to other MegaTen games. It is as dissapointing as SH2 and people overhype dated game just because of a unique setring coz ppl want to sound unique themselves

[@NeoKad99]

SMT If IS (mostly) good and I will die on that hill!

[@MILDMONSTER1234]

Strange Journey is not as hard as people make it out to be and it sure as hell doesn’t deserve the “hardest jrpg ever!!” status it currently has. Other then smt1 it’s arguably the easiest smt game to completely break and no I’m even taking passwords into consideration and never mind the fact that you can straight up auto battle your way through 60% of the random encounters

[@JustKurusu]

Whenever someone unironicay tells me to play "the port" for the FEMC, it unironically makes me want to back smack them very hard. The "port" in question is literally worse than the PSP version. To add on, the graphics is still worse than the average Persona 3 game because it was specifically made for the PSP. It might as well just be a literal insult towards FEMC fans. So here's a better solution. Mod FEMC into Persona 3 Reload instead. There's already people working on the mod, and it's looking awesome so far.

[@sadgamershow2273]

Nocturne has become the P4 of mainline.

[@AltoRosei]

19:15 100% fact, Persona 3 did need one but Persona 4....ya no it doesn't. Golden hold up very well still

[@JF-vz1ju]

3 didn't need one either. Just port/remaster FES.

[@JustKurusu]

​@JF-vz1ju It did actually need one. But not just because, "better graphics." People like me wanted a remake because Persona 3 was fragmented. There were different versions of the game, and people wanted the features from all of the other games to be placed into one in a remake. That's the major reason as to why it was needed. It would also avoid people from having to pay for the game multiple times just to get a certain feature. It could've been the definitive way to play Persona 3. But of course, Atlus didn't do that.

[@JustKurusu]

@Obloblorb That all comes down to opinion. But I'm not basing my point off an opinion. I'm saying that fans wanted an actual definitive version of the game. Not take a very specific part of it. FES literally had The Answer in-game. But now you have to pay DLC for it on the Reload. My whole point is - can we stop supporting companies purposely leaving out content? Thanks. Seriously, literally nobody would complain if this was the definitive way to play the game.

[@FaeQueenCory]

Megami Ibunroku Persona certainly _is_ the modern face of JRPGs... The modern face of *_good_* JRPGs.

[@defaultusername4203]

The most disappointed I felt playing any megaten game is Persona 3 Reload, it's like they changed nothing that made it bad while dampering everything else around it, I don't think I've ever came this close to dropping a persona game until P3R dropped

[@defaultusername4203]

Like I deadass should've thrown my 70$ in the trash

[@tbnwontpop8857]

I found everything in Reload to be an improvement besides the HP gating during bosses. All of the things that were fixed were things that I took massive issue with in FES, so I'm glad that those elements are gone because they were obnoxiously arbitrary and served only to pad out the original game's length in lazy and unmeaningful ways (fatigue, shitty AI and forced AI limitations early on, huge gaps in save points, the old skill inheritance system, mandatory grinding, a less streamlined Tartarus). P3 had _massive_ issues with its gameplay even among its other JRPG contemporaries, and almost all of those have aged better.

[@defaultusername4203]

Idk, I was playing and found it like just okay, a lot of new passives but I can't understand why they thought buffing physical was a great idea

[@kevinbaumhoer7359]

Persona has become more of a Life sim then JRPG as the majority of the game is outside of the Dungeons han inside

[@outerspaceman7534]

Persona is a good side game series but they are nowhere near as premium and hardcore as the main SMT series.

[@mattwatson1974]

Maybe atlus will announce persona 5 will get remake #sarcasm

[@nightmarishcompositions4536]

I miss when jrpgs were inspired more by classic fantasy novels and DnD rather than modern shonen anime with cringy dialogue and bad writing tbh.

[@shawnronny9864]

Feel like persona 6 needs some new writters likw jordan peele, kojima, Donald glover, and the boondocks creators

[@GRiznitDShiznit]

-Not sure how Atlus fell off, I feel we are still in their Golden Age. -P1 & P2 need Remakes bad but P4 will get it sooner because it's more popular. -Soul Hacker's 2 was good but it has the same problem P3 has, i.e., repetitive dungeons take up a large bulk of the gameplay. -P5R was a great game. Nothing wrong with hyping it up. It is, however, overmilked. Mainly due to spin-off trash rather than a true sequel. -FF is trash for the most part. FFVII remake stuff is carrying them rn as far as I'm concerned. SMT/Persona is waaay better than FF as far as I'm concerned. -SMTIV was better than SMT4A but it was nice to rarely be lost for a change. I feel like SMTIII and Strange J. Could use HD remakes, as well as SMTIV. High budget ones. -SMTIVA wasn't great but it is definitely overhated. Again In enjoyed not having to have a YT guide open while I played for once. -People saying P4/P5 start slow but end great. Don't judge them too soon! Grind/speed run through the slow times it'll be worth it! Stories get so good second half!

[@MILDMONSTER1234]

Ffxiv is doing alright still

[@KatanaRikku]

Arlo is a fantastic KZbinr. He needs to make more spicy take salads

[@DragonKingX78]

I don't want full on remakes of Persona 1 and 2s, I don't trust them not to make it like modern Persona games. I hate the calendar/school sim crap.

[@ian_cris]

But you can't deny that the success of P3, P4 and P5 has made Atlus bigger than ever and these 3 games are the ones that managed to separate themselves from the SMT aesthetic and make their own and easily recognizable unlike the rest of SMT spinoffs. P1 and P2 are classic SMT in essence, and if you want something modern there is SMT V, I don't know why you don't trust Atlus to remake P1 and P2 in the style of SMT V.

[@superizillian957]

They would prolly treat them like smt games (structured like a traditional rpg)

[@JF-vz1ju]

@@ian_cris P1/2 were always separate from the SMT aesthetic. They are not classic SMT "in essence" and that would be clear to anyone who played both P1/2 and classic SMT. Persona's distinction from Mainline are in its themes, setting, and character writing. Persona does not need the Calendar or time management to be distinct from SMT and never did. "don't know why you don't trust Atlus to remake P1 and P2 in the style of SMT V" Considering Atlus couldn't even be trusted to keep mechanics and features that made P3 unique in the remake, and how addicted they are to the Calendar system, it's warranted to worry about them fucking up other remakes.

[@ian_cris]

@@JF-vz1ju what unique features you mean? i hope not femc

[@JF-vz1ju]

@@ian_cris Fatigue was genuinely a good mechanic for pacing the player's progress through Tartarus, without it it's too easy to just clear entire blocks in one night which completely throws off the dungeon crawling/social sim balance and turns the game into blue P5. Even if they decided to make it optional or exclusive to the hardest difficulty, it shouldn't have been cut. AI Tactics wasn't a bad system either. If you knew how to use it there would rarely be problems. In Reload the commands are simplified, meaning there's not even an option to play the game the same way the original was played. If anything it should've been expanded and improved upon, not gutted. Those are my two biggest problems, but there are a ton of small ones. The removal of Social Link Breaks, the inability for the MC to use different weapons, changing knockdowns and turn order to work like P4. Excluding FeMC and cutting and reselling the Answer as paid DLC are also shitty, but not my main points.

[@itsallenwow]

I honestly thought we left Persona 5 is the most disappointing game ever in like 2019 Just such a braindead thing to say

[@brianpacheco9606]

No persona is not the new face of jrpgs lmao, it’s still very niche even though it’s on more platforms

[@sonton2042]

Fun content

[@faiyez]

"Remake P1/P2" and "P5 overrated" are the most basic ass takes you could have.

[@lemonlime8949]

What is “basic” to you is not invalid all the time

[@dimitrijekulak3347]

At least you could have given us your opinion instead of saying "No" like a bot for 10 seconds 7:33

[@7thFormVoid]

Does he really have to? It's self explanatory lol

[@blaze595]

You just need to look at sales to get your answer. Persona 3 Reload was ATLUS’s fasting selling game at 1 mil in its first week on (almost) all platforms; console exclusive Final Fantasy games getting those numbers would be considered financial failures. Persona and SMT are really beloved with JRPG enthusiasts (myself included); but in the broader gaming consciousness they are not the first series most people think of when talking about JRPGs.

[@dimitrijekulak3347]

@@blaze595 that's just wrong way to look at things. Final Fantasy is a classic game series, and has been much more popular than Persona. However, the question was about modern JRPG, and Persona 5 has about 11M sales, only being outsold by Final Fantasy 7 and 10, both being older games. Reload sold 1M in the first week, and it will probably reach around 7-10M in the upcoming years. With the hype surrounding Persona 6, I can easily see it reaching 20M sales. Persona is the most popular modern JRPG, and it will only continue to rise. Persona 5 was the breaking point for the series, which got a lot of people to play the older games. Also, FF has about 18 games, Persona only has 6 (mainline, and was a spinoff series so it went under a radar for many years), so comparing total sales numbers is not fair to begin with.

[@7thFormVoid]

I am 99% sure the 11 million figure is for Persona 5, the Royal rerelease AND all of its spinoffs too so that's a misleading comparison lol. ​@@dimitrijekulak3347

[@kira516]

Really p4 remake is useless for now honestly

[@PresidentEgg16]

Persona

[@eldritch-rage]

Disagree