Shinzen Describes the Vajrayana Practice

Shinzen describes the Vajrayana practice in which we first became ordained as a Monk in Japan.
www.shinzen.org
This is part of an interview Shinzen Young did with Stephanie Nash in August 2009.
The purpose of this interview was to 'get the scoop' on Shinzen - the man behind the techniques.
(Editing graciously contributed by Bruce Malm.)

[@miketwocoat]

This is one of the best explanations of Vajrayana practice.

[@toddviv]

+stain n finish i didnt really like what he said about becoming a god considering buddha himself never claimed to be God. Tibetan buddhism does seem to have some unusual practices. May i ask you- do you have any information about how to do this style of meditation.

[@miketwocoat]

In Buddhism the mind / consciousness controls the body, the brain ect. These are practices to develop characteristics like compassion, clarity, mindfulness. The point is not to become a god literally but to gain the attributes of these bodisatnvas not gods. It is sometimes hard for folks brought up in christianity or Islam to fully grasp these concepts with out nagging guilt. Find a local Buddhist center and attend some of the group s.

[@toddviv]

thanks

[@EvergrowingYT]

also I would like to add the one sentence that got stuck with me which I learned from Kaballah: "If you want to be like a god, start behaving like one" or the good old "fake it until you make it". This is backed up by modern science showing us that affirmations work. Plus if you understood that intention (magic) works, and I do, that greatly increases your chances of attaining your goals. People finally need to get rid of this making themselves small. Everything is possible ♥

[@brianharris6437]

@@toddviv It's not about becoming a god in the conventional sense. The "deities" are buddhas who represent the entire lineage of spiritual teachers. Through invoking and merging with their transmission, you discover the nature of your own mind experientially. You realize the timelessly inseparable unity of your own awakening with the awakening of all the buddhas and bodhisattvas.

[@justinmasters220]

YESSS! This. I do this by myself! I didn't know this was a THING :D yay.

[@TheMikakoivu]

It's useful to talk sanely about enlightenment, for example to point out that if you keep doing these practices, you'll get there. I don't see a similar advantage from revealing which particular deity got picked in the ceremony. It would be like telling everyone what the wedding night was like.

[@ricardomirat7248]

Plaator i agree. it kind of makes the whole thing about a superficial fact. is she still working with him?

[@IowaLanguages]

Wedding night??

[@squamish4244]

Plaator Indeed. The bizarre traditional injunction against discussing enlightenment has led to a lot of problems in adapting Buddhism to the modern world. Many of us are quite skeptical about religious traditions (for very good reason) and it's hard to pursue a goal that no one talks about. I work with a teacher in a Tibetan lineage who is very secretive about her own experience and it has caused a lot of difficulty with my existential doubts and motivation.

[@maximlianmaier5964]

Thank you so much. After the death of my teacher it is the first description I found which describes exactly my way of understanding Vajrayana! I would love to meet you one day.

[@dorellabelle]

I recently came across a modern "practice" that appears to be closely related to what you are talking about. It relates "simply" to the self image and aims to help getting rid of wrong/frozen habits of posture. I think it would be very interesting to find a correlation between the images of the two. I was astonished in looking at the images from your point of view and viceversa, I think they can give an other/dual view of Archetypal Deity Yoga.

[@shunyotube]

The soft focus on the lady reminds me of that TV show "Moon Lighting."

[@NothingTheGreat]

lol I remember my dad watching that when I was a little kid

[@vampirewiccan999]

How can I practice Vajrayana, if I dont have guru, here in Philippines.

[@squamish4244]

After reading about a lot of hardcore Buddhist techniques, I have often wondered how many practitioners succeeded in getting enlightened through the psychological pressure and how many just snapped and had nervous breakdowns or went otherwise bonkers. I don't think they screened for mental health issues at retreats back in the day (though they do now).

[@toddviv]

+valair what are the practices may i ask?

[@TheInnerMindEye]

About the practices of the higher tantras within the Vajrayana. Nervous breakdowns and psychotic episodes are temporary phases of negative karma ripening within the purification process of tantric practise.

[@tsheringchoden8165]

And who saw the deity to be like that ... and who examined the enlightened mind to be like that... Every imagination of the meditator and meditation is just himself and his state of being that he can imagine...

[@EvergrowingYT]

I thought the same. It might well work but why would you first need to learn about "foreign" archetypes instead of taking role models that one is very fond of (e.g. Neo in Matrix, Zeus or some angel/demon etc). I would like to see results from this practise or at least hear a trustworthy story about the results/synchronicities.

[@jollybigfist]

It seems as though it's an experience of the self in every aspect possible in order to understand that the self is a mental construct and as such is all aspects and none? Maybe I'm just confused haha

[@bamboosa]

watch the weird shadow stuff in the background...

[@tanko.spirit7754]

"weird"? some novice camera man / lighting assistant probably got in-front of the lights that were set up for this recording. weird? no. unprofessional? yeah, a bit.... but who cares, no one is here for video quality but content!

[@thedevo01]

Huh.. Interesting.. I've been unknowingly doing this since my teen years.

[@ruhmankhalid6675]

So jim carrey in a way had a vajrayana experience?

[@lingy74]

The challenge is to a westerners ear, the deity is subconsciously related to some god like figure, and automatically imbued with dualistic characteristics. So much of the difficulties in presenting vajrayana to a Western ear is how does one find a way to circumvent the Abrahamic programming. You can practically see all the misconceptions forming in the mind of the lady in real time in this video. So far have not seen anyone able to do it. So many Westerners already teach an interpretation coloured by their dualistic upbringing as opposed to the actual thing. In Buddha dharma, deities are not gods or goddesses but the Tibetan word yidam. Being a goddess or a god doesn’t qualify one to be a yidam and a human being can be greater than a God if they are awakened to Buddhahood and the God is still stuck in duality. And ultimately, you are not just ‘becoming’ the yidam, as important as becoming it is dissolving it. But the latter part always gets left out of the convo. Yes, there is an identification process happening if you want to call it there but the yidam is ultimately shunyata. Without an understanding of shunyata, deity practice not becomes self defeating but becomes an ego boost. This is why they say tantra is balancing on the edge of a razor blade. So many points where your practice can lead you further from as opposed to closer to awakening. And this is why guru is so essential. They can catch you and rebalance you before you fall and cut yourself. Anyone trying to practice vajrayana without a guru needs a humility check and also does not truly understand what vajrayana sadhana and practice entails and what the point of it is. Because if they did, they would definitely not want to attempt it alone. 😅🙏❤️

[@stonew1927]

Given that they are elucidating on Vajrayana in Japan, I take it that it is Shingon Buddhist practices that they are talking about. Now I'm curious about how this branch of Vajrayana is different from Tibetan ....

[@lingy74]

Quite similar. If you practice either path, you can sit in a ceremony of the other tradition and understand what is happening without understanding the language.

[@kartikmann_]

Sounds like Bhakti Yoga, Krishna Consciousness and so on.

[@QED_]

He's portraying (4:12) the practise of "becoming the Archetype" . . . as intended primarily negatively -- to reveal the arbitrariness of the creation of the conditioned False Self. I'm not convinced that's how Vajrayana views it -- at all. Why can't each Archetype be a representation of a non-arbitrary quality of the True Self? In that case, Vajrayana practise would be a positive method for attuning oneself to that True Self . . . in place of the False Self.

[@yourguyjay]

but within buddhism there's no permanent self posited, so what or which true self would that refer to?

[@jeroenjansen2709]

So you imagine you are a deity who does not exist and is also an imagination. You can imagine you are a deity but you are not the deity.

[@DaniVC]

But we are not the person that we think we are neither :) . We could say that we are the Consciousness in which any of these imaginary egos appear. What Shinzen describes is just a path to Realize this ultimate Truth :)

[@MrTypingsound]

Why can't you reveal what deity you generated as? Is that just a superstition, or is there a logical reason for that? I was also advised in a Tibetan tradition not to speak about my inner experiences, as though they might lose power in some way. The fact that you openly speak of your enlightenment does make me wary of you, so I can understand why many teachers keep it under wraps. Although I do appreciate hearing those things, but at the same time they make my suspicious.

[@TheInnerMindEye]

These initiations within the practices of higher tantras are strictly personalized to the individual capacity of the practitioner and are transmitted from teacher onto student on a basis of mutual entrusting because of the highly refined levels of consciousness that are involved in tantric practice. Therefore they often require a certain degree of confidentiality and discretion.

[@s33thr3w]

interviewer lady, definitely tap dat.

[@enlightenmentandphilosophy]

mxblue why are you here?

[@alBaid]

I'd tap that as well 💪🏾

[@prash2411]

Following the breath is better

[@badcooper235]

Have you tried this?

[@ramon2008]

Explain

[@lingy74]

But slower

[@pachabel4081]

Yes I agree with you Tucker Wilson... Unfortunately the female interviewers unprofessional style, overt mannerisms as well as being ill prepared detracted from this great topic and explanation given.

[@ricardomirat7248]

Pachabel i agree

[@omotenashienterprises1076]

If you don't know why this concise explanation of vajrayana techniques is so "enlightening" - you are probably not ready to "have a go". WOW! Gosh. Now I am off to read some Jordan Peterson - on the subject of archetypes and their conceptual use.

[@tuckman496]

I couldn't stand the interviewer. This is quite interesting, but she couldn't have been that excited.

[@ramon2008]

Haha why she seemed pretty chill and interested

[@tuckman496]

@@ramon2008 Looking back that comment was a basically a microaggreasion towards her. I denounce my former sexist comment.

[@ramon2008]

Tucker Walton it’s all good man I wasn’t hating there’s plenty of interviewers I can’t stand haha. No worries my friend. Also I didn’t see it as “sexist”. Stop super guilt tripping your mind. Relax.

[@raghavarvoltore6517]

@@tuckman496 lol thats 7 years ago, you actually remembered and came back to comment one what you initially said.

[@bfhwhataboutthecavesdude6162]

nice but 100 days is very little to go on. Try 3 yrs 3 mths strict tibetan tradition retreat ...and even then they don't go around making pronouncements.