Shogun | Episode 9 | TV Reaction | First Time Watching | This Is Crimson Sky?!?

Mariko heads to Osaka to play out Toranaga's Crimson Sky in Episode 9 of Shogun (2024), "Crimson Sky" from FX. Here's our reaction to our first time watching.
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[@user-yv8qu1tm4j]

The concept of Noh is that life is like a temporary dream. It seems to have been a concept shared by the Japanese people of that time. It seems to me that the Samurai thought about “dying beautifully” because life is short. The reason why cherry blossoms are loved by Japanese people is because they feel the fleeting nature of life in cherry blossoms, which fall apart in a short period of time. Toda Mariko's line, “Flowers are only flowers because they fall,” has the same meaning.

[@gacchan]

Leafless Branch is another title/play on word for Ochiba's name, so it was a way to directly talk to her without anyone else realizing bc Ishido is lowborn.

[@nyjazzman]

Mariko’s death was not the plan by Ishido. I think the plan was for the shinobi to just kidnap her. No one thought she would make the sacrifice she did by putting herself in front of an exploding door. As she said, death does not mean surrender. She has wanted to die ever since her whole family line was massacred by her father’s action of assassinating the former Japanese leader. At the time, her father married her off to Buntaro to save her life. I believe in that particular time, in that culture, her desire to die was totally understood.

[@GhostWatcher2024]

It goes beyond that though. If she was kidnapped...Ishido could spin her tale that she left at daybreak as allowed... by her dying it is indisputable that Ishido never intended for her to be free to leave.... In short...whether by Ishido's guards, her own hand, or paid shinoba (mercenaries)... the success of her mission required her death.... She was Toranaga's sacrificed queen in this game of chess. Beware the chestmaster that has no problem sacrificing the queen to get the checkmate.

[@Glisern]

They're not "hoping she doesn't hit them" they're desperately trying to not hit her or injure her in any way. That's why they moved away when she moved close, and only intercept her weapon, never her.

[@aworkinprogress4387]

This was the best episode in the series. Mariko was amazing. I love that Crimson Sky wasn't an army, it was just one woman who undid all of Torunaga's enemies.

[@mikec42]

Mariko's son is the AJ Soprano of feudal Japan.

[@Ohitswilly]

So what, no fuckin' ziti now?

[@mikec42]

@@Ohitswilly 🤣🤣🤣

[@SutekhDaSteemroller]

Your husband is right. Mariko was granted passage then the same night she's killed by shinobi in an explosion. Totally disgraceful act by Ishido against a CHRISTIAN highborn. Ochiba's childhood friend murdered in a totally dishonorable fashion will not sit well with her. Kiyama and Ohno can no longer trust Ishido also as he will kill christians at his convenience. If you notice throughout the series Ishido's clothing is not nearly as ornate as Mariko, Toranaga, Kiyama, or Ohno. He has very drab , neutral colored clothing for the series. A subtle way of showing he is not of the same class as everyone else. This entire episode focuses on that

[@Ycekhold]

"The seat would stink of the countryside", indeed.

[@joeyartk]

Most Japanese considered Christianity a weird foreign cult(they still do). Most of the Christian daimyo were only interested in Portuguese weapons and money. They usually quickly gave up their beliefs when threatened with death.

[@botNeyen]

@@joeyartk "Im not consider myself in the matters of faith, altough im interested in trade" Kiyama made it pretty clear.

[@botNeyen]

"For when you have no words, and just need something to hold onto" I absolutely love the parallel between the start of the episode with the flashback of the priest telling Mariko "For when you have no words, and just need something to hold onto" and giving her the cross and the moment of Mariko picking to held John's hand instead of the cross, meaning how she now has someone to hold onto when she has no words, just like that moment.

[@gacchan]

Also the thing with Ishido and Mariko was he wanted her to just disappear by bandits, oops, not his fault.

[@manbearpig7359]

One of my guilty pleasures is watching Americans trying to figure out shows like Shogun

[@Blajammer]

I’m glad a wider audience gets exposed to my culture but I also agree with you in that is quite amusing

[@Ha1cy0n]

Nothing to figure out about a sub par tv show. Read the book or watch the 80s version. This show is a 4 or 5 at best.

[@BIGxBOSSxx1]

@@Ha1cy0nCouldn’t be any more wrong. The old show purely focuses on the Anjin’s perspective and very little of Japan, and it was known for not being culturally accurate. This is way better in pretty much every way.

[@manbearpig7359]

@@Ha1cy0n But yet you have taken the time to go on YT and watch other people react to a show that you don't like, and then take the further time to read the comments section?

[@Fallen616]

@@BIGxBOSSxx1Very true! I’ve watched the 1980s miniseries and I immensely enjoyed this version because of its authentic Japanese portrayal. Whereas the 80s version focused solely on Blackthorne, this series focused heavily on Mariko, and Toranaga in that they felt like real, fleshed our characters with their own motivations and grievances. In the 80s miniseries, the Japanese characters felt like props, meant to propel Blckthorne forward whereas here, Mariko and Toranaga are definitely the most interesting and compelling characters.

[@botNeyen]

The moment when Blackthorne was prepared to second Mariko despite his continuous hesitation to not make Mariko have to commit suicide and the look she gave him... that scene was just stunning...

[@botNeyen]

In reality, only samurai class were allowed to comitt seppuku, but Mariko was from a samurai bloodline. Women from samurai families were considered samurai too. Thats why Mariko knew how to fight, samurai women were in charge to take care of the villages/etc when the men were outside

[@GhostWatcher2024]

*...A leafless branch...* "Whats the rest of that poem. That was a message to her." It wasnt a psrt of a full poem... rap battle indeed... its like when Mariko and Toranaga were exchanging lines... the lines are made up on the fly, passing the next line back and forth... Ochiba was alluding to practicing this with Mariko when they were young and offered the first line of the proposed competition to Mariko.... So that line was the ONLY line so far... And yes it was a message directly for Ochiba.... Because "Ochiba" means "Fallen Leaves"....thus a leafless branch is what is left behind.... as Ochiba left Mariko behind....

[@botNeyen]

What John did, offering himself to be second (taking out the fact that Anjin was a foreign) was something huge even for them. People usually didn't like to take up the position of a second. I think someone put it as "Doing it correctly doesn't give you any glory, but failing is a mark of shame". Being a kaishakunin (selected for the job) was usually considered bad, which is why it was generally done by a friend who would volunteer for the job out of their care for you in particular (to make sure it was done properly). Basically your bestest buddy was the only one who would willingly risk their own honour to save yours.

[@botNeyen]

If you pay attention, Mariko uses very white-ish and bright colors in the kimonos, except this episode where she use a crimson/black one... Its pretty much said.

[@botNeyen]

This is the death poem read by Garasha (Gracia) Hosokawa, who was the real historic figure who was the model for Mariko, when she chose to be killed rather than comitte a seppuku: "A flower is only a flower if it knows when to fall, and so should humans. Now is the time to fall."

[@botNeyen]

The writers used that specifically scene of Mariko's seppuku to contrast John with Buntaro, who refuses to let her die with honor, and how despite even going agaisnt his own religion, in John's POV, he was willing to go to hell just so Mariko could have an eternal rest in "paradise". Willing to risk his own eternal rest to secure heirs. Im not even religious myself but it must the most selfless act of love I ever seen on TV/Movies, I was tearing up so hard in that moment.

[@MrFlingtoe]

He didn't want to be exposed. So he sent assians to kill her. Even if the door wouldn't have blown open. They picked this way for her to have a purpose and redeem her name. He had no intentions of letting her leave. It was for show in front of the other prisoners.

[@P.HATHCOX]

I know Mariko's death seems confusing and pointless here, Mr and Mrs Movies but stay tuned. There are reasons for everything that has been happening for the past few episodes. All will be revealed. Crimson Sky is in effect.

[@Philistine47]

Yes, there are reasons, and yes, there will be an explanation; but that doesn't mean the reasons and the explanation will be satisfactory.

[@Philistine47]

Somehow I don't think Mrs. Movies is going to love how this series winds up.

[@chadbuchanan7044]

I felt like they did her justice. Don't want to say how because of spoilers, but it was beautiful, and made my heart jump into my throat, considering what was said, and by whom.

[@to0muchtoan]

RIP TO THE REALEST 😭

[@michaellockhart554]

Kiri-no-kata is Toronaga's wife, Shizu is his consort, most nobles and multiple consorts but only one wife

[@botNeyen]

I just wonder what it would be happen with John if he actually seconded Mariko. We already saw how he feels with the idea of death, I dont think he would had been able to handle it. I think that the Ainjin would have k*lled himself not too long after Mariko's seppuku

[@dimbose9229]

Mariko is Crimson Sky.

[@alexshank1414]

I thought I was going to see an anti-cry drink at Mariko’s suicide. That was pretty close.

[@chadbuchanan7044]

I hated seeing that, but I love what happens next. I ran out of time that night to watch the final episode and couldn't stand ending on that note.

[@midnightcat6116]

Is she ok? The guy’s really nice, though :)

[@TheMajestyD]

Wild episode

[@mogambo4565]

Toranaga sent her to die in order to sow dissent amongst the ruling families. If she didnt die toranaga wouldn't have support of the rest of clans to go against Ishido.

[@Christian-el2bz]

You can also turn it around. If she did NOT die, but DID manage to leave: Osaka would hemorrhage power and people. Both moves would shake Osaka to the core - and give Ishido another disadvantage while giving Toranaga another advantage.

[@0xkero]

Husband have great reactions ❤

[@botNeyen]

Listen Yabushige, I’m not mad, I’m just disappointed. Was a shame the ninjas were trying to kill my favorite characters, otherwise I would’ve really enjoyed that scene: ninjas are cool. I was all “wooo yeah Yabu doing some badass, ooh ninja are badass, here comes some cool justice--oh no. Wait. No, hey, wrong guys, Yabu stoooop bro”

[@denial987]

Too bad this was not an one-off like the original miniseries was in the 80s. I do not see how this can go on for another two seasons.

[@ronweber1402]

I foresee a Game of Thrones situation where the screenwriters flail after running out of original material by the author.

[@theebronks]

Considering it is based on and follows relatively closely to actual historical events there is a guideline for progression in the series.

[@joeyartk]

​@@theebronksIt is very very loosely based and does not follow real events hardly at all.

[@PeterEvansPeteTakesPictures]

Already mentally picking this show up and carefully putting it on a seperate shelf as a self-contained thing that exists alone for alway.

[@hackapump]

Given that there is no sequel to the novel, there really is no way of knowing what they'll do with a second season. True, Japanese history obviously continued past what inspired this story, but this period was followed by a long stretch (100+ years) of peace and unity in the country. Hardly the same fodder for drama. But if anyone can pull it off, I believe it's the creative team behind this show. But we'll see.

[@joeyartk]

I don't know who came up with the ridiculous idea that stabbing yourself isn't suicide if someone else cuts your head off at your request(which isn't the way women committed suicide, they slit a vein in their neck) , but they clearly know nothing about Catholic theology. That's why the real Hosokawa Gracia (Mariko) was actually killed by a servant on order of her husband, the great Lord Hosokawa Tadaoki. She knew about it and accepted it, but did not initiate it. Since she was a devout Catholic, she never commited adultery either, which is just as bad a sin as suicide. Of course she never even met John Adams (Blackthorn), who was not even present at any of these battles. She actually never even left the Hosokawa mansion in Osaka the whole time. And her only importance and the reason for the attempted hostage taking, was because she was the wife of Hosokawa Tadaoki, leader of the Hosokawa clan, who led 5000 warriors from his clan into battle here supporting Tokugawa (Toranaga). Historical fiction is one thing, but this is outright alternate history or more accurately, pure fantasy. Lol

[@martinbraun1211]

🖖

[@mnz6324ify]

You watch 9 episodes and not realize that Mariko is not a key part nor the scenes that where she was trying to flee give you a hint that if she dies on the hands of anyone which would be catastrophic. Clearly yall wasted 9 hrs in yall life not realizing what yall were watching.