Shop Talk: Shackle reversals on a YJ

[@ginalatorri6617]

Hey Jason, great vid/info, I'm older 68 been driving and owning Jeeps for over 50 yrs. I got a new yj in 94 a SE 4.0 one of the best and strongest Jeeps. I bought a new 2006 Rubicon and put $$ into it and nothing but problems. Yes it road smoother than my yj, however never had the death wobble b4. Too much plastic and problems with 06 so sold it. Brought my yj back home for the Hunting and has been my daily and back road everydayer. I don't mind the ruff and it handles way better than the 06. Others have tried to talk me into the shackle reversal and never did cause I could see the problems you explained. Back in 94-95 I put over 10k extras in the yj will keep hin until the day I die.

[@kdxcrfsx]

if setup properly with shackle reverse, the shackles should never hit the frame!

[@SmallTimeMotorsports]

kdxcrfsx, I completely agree, I said that in my video that set up properly they are great and a nice change to the rough YJ suspension, however most people do not do their homework and end up with issues. Thanks for watching and commenting!

[@garygarant2582]

I went with the reversal for trails on my Cj5 hope all is good

[@trevordavis4728]

a big reason why sprung over big tire crawlers go reversal is because you're more likely to bend springs with the shackles up front. When you talked about coming up on a big rock and the suspension has nowhere to go, it's even worse with the shackle in the front because the spring is pushing the axle into the rock vs pulling it over the rock. when you come up on a big obstacle and can't get the front tire over, the rear is going to keep pushing till the main leaf finally gives and all that energy is released into bending the spring.

[@trevordavis4728]

this is very rare with sua and smaller tire jeeps.

[@SmallTimeMotorsports]

Thanks for watching and your comment, its for sure an interesting point you make, especially for the bigger spring over trucks with a ton more unsprung weight and bigger tires. Definitely food for thought, thanks for watching!!

[@stevenbecker4549]

A Shackle reversal will give you a better approach angle.

[@SmallTimeMotorsports]

A shackle reversal will certainly lift the front of the spring by removing the shackle up there, thats a great point for those considering it. Thanks for watching and thank you for your comment!!

[@garygarant2582]

As for noise dive, is not that what shocks are for? With the slap and drive line , it is all about setup.I would rather walk over something than bounce. You just have to do what is right for you.

[@SmallTimeMotorsports]

Hey man, thanks for commenting and watching. To your point, yes, shocks can help a nose dive upon braking situation, but truthfully by the time you have shocks valved stiff enough to stop suspension movement, they completely defeat their purpose. They are meant to stabilize spring movement, not stop it. A lot of it is very much attributed to proper set up, you do have to do whats right for your rig and personal tastes. At the same time you say you can walk over something and not bounce, I feel the opposite is true with the reversal, When you push up against something with the shackle reversal it allows the spring to load up easier and recoil forward causing a bounce. But I do respect your opinion and can see where youre coming from. The great thing about Jeeps is that they work in many ways, and work for some better in different configurations than others. Thanks again for watching and commenting.

[@garygarant2582]

Small Time Motorsports good show thanks

[@LeoOlanski]

Hey Jason, this is not about shackle reversal but it is about Revolver shackles, what do you think about em? I’m building my 2.5 95 yj as a fun beach cruiser and sometime trail rig. Nothin extreme but I’d like her to be capable. I currently have a new 2.5” Lift using Old Man Emu leafs and their sport shocks and Sway bar disconnects. I was also looking into the JKS telescoping track bar when I saw your video on it. At the end of the day I want to have a trail worthy rig that’ll be safe to take my kids on some trails her in NC. Thanks for all your great content, you are really good at explaining the ins and out of whatever your talking about.

[@SmallTimeMotorsports]

I wanted to first say thanks for watching and commenting. I have never personally ran a revolver shackle, but I do know someone that has them on a dedicated trail rig (XJ) and he loves them. I have always wondered about them myself. The write up on the Teraflex states that they compress on themselves and allow the spring maximum articulation and droop( also states they are an Off-road mod). I cant convince myself I would ever need them and I worry about the spring loading and unloading with them since they fold. I've been of the thought that if I needed extra articulation I would do a spring over with really flexy leafs, I also think about the extra change in pinion angle when it droops out putting pressure on a standard driveshaft, so I would almost have a cv shaft if i ran them. I hope this helps and thank you for your kind words!!

[@LeoOlanski]

Small Time Motorsports I appreciate the info. Thank you

[@SOLDADITO76]

Panic braking dip in the front end, example 1st and 2ng gen 4x4 Toyota's, gets worse when you lift them. And if you still have push pull steering grab ahold of the wheel just a bit tighter, because here comes the bump steer.

[@SmallTimeMotorsports]

Exactly!!!

[@Dmowery5036]

I have a 95. What’s your opinion on revolver shackles and Z boxes? My jeep is a trail jeep only. I can’t find much info on them. Any help would be great! Thanks!

[@SmallTimeMotorsports]

On an offroad rig revolver shackles and z boxes can be a very effective way to increase articulation and combined with a flexy leaf pack can offer amazing flexibility. In short, set up correctly they are amazing, however I do think they can be dangerous on the street. If its dedicated offroad, let er' rip.

[@whocares2227]

I work with a guy that suggested shackle reversal to me on my 77 CJ and it sounded like something that I would consider. I've been having the same thoughts in my head about the geometry of the whole thing and it's reassuring to see somebody explain the same questions that I've been having. I'm gonna keep mine stock for the same reasons. Good video man!

[@SmallTimeMotorsports]

Thanks for watching Joe. Shackle reversals can be good for certain applications, but I feel like it can open up different issues for the average guy just driving his jeep. Some people are pretty critical about this subject but some things just arent right for me so im leaving mine stock too.. I appreciate your comment and thanks again for watching!

[@williamscott2002]

I hv a 1994 Jeep wrangler yj, What are your thoughts on the blocks that were added to the rear leaf springs for lift? Very and cracked. Thanks, W. Scot

[@SmallTimeMotorsports]

Thanks for watching and thanks for your question. Adding rear blocks can be an easy way to get more lift out of a Jeep realtively inexpensively, they come into play for several reasons, one being that the stock springs are very flexy so it keeps that soft ride after lifting unlike a spring pack with a higher arch that get much stiffer for the most part. There can be some bad from them though, first is those softer springs with blocks tend to axle wrap and wheel hop in the back, the axle is farther from the spring so it gives it leverage to twist the spring and after enough of this it can damage bushings and crack leaves. As long as the components themselves are in good shape (leaves, ubolts, blocks) theres nothing wrong with blocks under 2 inches, over that can be sketchy. It sounds like if you have lift blocks in there it has a spring over already in place so just take care of the springs youll be mint.

[@MrFlyingdonut]

What do you think about putting yj springs on a CJ vs stock

[@TheRowdyJ]

on point 5, crawling down a steep hill, ive heard of people bouncing off a mountain due to the axle loading up, then axle wrap front/back spins the tires. then they load up again, this time with momentum and axle wrap again and they hop. in effect, you bounce down a hill and cant stop.

[@mlevy6412]

Very informative, thank you again. How would you determine shackle length? Mine are set up as standard but are 4"tall in the front and 5"tall in the rear, Can I use shorter shackles to lower the frame and not worry about other issues?

[@SmallTimeMotorsports]

Thanks again for watching. To answer your question shackles are measured from bolt center to bolt center, going from your previous post if youre SOA several parts could be put together to make it work, or it could be stock springs switched over to the top. You may be able to use shorter shackles to lower the height some, but definitely check to make sure its not going to stuff the driveshafts into your transfer case, if it takes all of the slip and compresses you could have issues. Also make sure you adjust the front steering linkage and track bar if you have one. If not you will push your axle further to the passenger side and off center. Most everything else should be fine but do check and make adjustments as necessary. If you dont have greasable bolts now would be a great time to upgrade, and worse case scenario you can either make adjustments or go back to the shackles you have on now. Relatively simple job and pretty inexpensive to test this out. Thanks for watching, let me know if I can answer anything else.

[@mlevy6412]

@@SmallTimeMotorsports Thank you very much! Are you in PA? It looks like you may be drinking some local beer

[@SmallTimeMotorsports]

Hahaha, not In Pennsylvania now but I did go to tech school there years ago, and im from Cleveland so im familiar with the area. Honestly Penn is so strict with vehicle laws im kinda glad to be out of there. Southern Indiana is wonderfully mild in the winter and summer so its a good mix, and I definitely do not miss the rust, but still enjoy Yuengling and Rolling Rock.

[@drumdude68]

Next videos: 1. Why bias plies out perform radials. 2. How front drum brakes are superior to discs. 3. Spring loading your carburetor float bowls for hill climbing. 4. How split rims can be a poor man's bead lock. 5. Using PTO shafts as a replacement drive shaft.

[@SmallTimeMotorsports]

Well thanks for watching and trying to flame here, but to your point... 1. Bias plies do outperform radials on several different terrains, especially aired down. 2. Front drum brake talk is worthless.. 3. Carbs are all toilets, worthless talk again. 4. Split rims are garbage and for heavy duty trucks, worthless x3. 5. PTO shafts often have no slip in them so they could be used with a divorced transfer case or a fixed suspension, like whatever vehicle the drum front brakes, split rims, bias ply tires, and carb youre referring to came off. But thanks for watching and trying to be funny anyhow!!

[@franciscodanconia45]

Great explanation in plain terms I can understand. Thanks!

[@SmallTimeMotorsports]

Im glad you found some useful information, Thanks for watching and commenting!!

[@ronthoman7138]

Good video! It was well thought out and informative. Thanks!

[@SmallTimeMotorsports]

Ron Thoman thanks for watching sir, more videos in the editing stage right now, stay tuned.!

[@KC9UDX]

Another great video. I haven't seen anyone prove or disprove this, but I've heard that with the shackle in the front, the spring loading up behind the axle upon hitting a large obstacle, can actually cause the axle to bounce up onto things like rocks easier than a rear-shackle setup that doesn't load up like that.

[@jemlesvideo]

I have to say that YJs, especially with lift and big wheels actually rides an unexpected obstacle like nothing ! I encoutered several blocks or rocks with mine because municipalities placed them alongside of roads to impeach people parking or whatever (I'm french and in France there are plenty of stupid ideas like that) and I just drove over them because I forgot them or just did not noticed them and even if it was a bit shaking and surprising in the end the YJ took it real good and I think if my shakle where reverse it could have been real bad.

[@Super-tc1eh]

Great information! This is exactly what I was looking for.

[@SmallTimeMotorsports]

Thanks for watching, im glad my videos can help, stay tuned, more on the jeep coming soon.

[@johntomlinson8044]

Leaf over axle vs leaf under axle

[@SmallTimeMotorsports]

Thats a very good topic, there are advantages and drawbacks to both, for stability purposes spring under, hands down, every time, to gain height easily and ground clearance for the frame, spring over. I will make a video about this topic. Thanks for your comment and watching!!

[@xfer43]

Well done. I enjoyed your presentation. Really enjoyed this info. I've got a 94YJ.

[@SmallTimeMotorsports]

Jason, thanks so much for watching and commenting. I hope through my channel I can give you some info that you can use on your YJ. Cheers!!

[@williamburch1321]

Very helpful! Thx Definitely worthy of subscription

[@SmallTimeMotorsports]

Thanks for your comment and thanks for subscribing William!!

[@johnkessler1761]

Good information.

[@dennisrowe3860]

Glad I didn’t start removing stuff before watching this video!! Lol!! Very informative and entertaining. Oh!! You have one more subscriber!!

[@nickphillips8682]

Obviously this guy never driven a well built yj SOA with shackle reversal. Shackle slap is the funniest thing I've ever heard of.lmfao

[@SmallTimeMotorsports]

Just curious why you watched the video when you really just wanted someone to tell you that you're right. If you need someone to tell you atta boy for that comment I'll bite, seem like you got an ego that needs stroked, but if youve never heard of a shackle slapping youre showing either woeful ignorance or definite inexperience. Choose wisely.

[@nickphillips8682]

@@SmallTimeMotorsports You made it sound as if every shackle reversal will slap. Lmfao so much ignorance and misinformation.

[@SmallTimeMotorsports]

I never implied all of them would slap. I stated that it was a possibility with a shackle reversal...its almost like the entire video was possibilities of problems you could see with a reversal. Dont take it from me, just google it when you crawl back under your bridge little troll.