Did I Solve Miter Saw Dust Collection?

**FINAL VERSION NOW AVAILABLE** (Check down below)
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See Part 2 HERE!: • SOLVED: Miter Saw Dust...
Let's face it, dust collection on a miter saw is hard. There have been many attempts to fix it and it just hasn't quite been cracked yet. After getting my new miter saw (Ridgid 4251) I decided I want to tackle just that.
Right off the bat - this Ridgid as well as it's clone the Delta Cruzer have pretty terrible standard dust collection options. Due to the dual arm sliding mechanism there just wasn't much room for the design engineers to accommodate one - or they just gave up trying. That means that addressing the dust collection on these particular saws is very important.
I started by really looking at the saw and trying to understand where the sawdust is generated and where it is thrown by the blade. Then I mocked up a simple box that sits behind the blade that shrouds the blade as best as possible. Next I took that concept and modeled the entire thing in Fusion 360. Once that design was optimized I loaded up the part files in my 3D printing software and printed them!
How a 3D Printer Solves Problems - • From idea to reality -...
Building a 3D Printer - • Do THIS if you’re new ...
Recommended printers:
Bambulab P1P - bit.ly/3O2SLFy
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Bambulabs X1c - bit.ly/450GVCV
Prusa mk3S+ - bit.ly/3Qb1jMI
Prusa mk4 - bit.ly/3rKcLpm
I've got to say that the end result is pretty sweet but during testing...I realized I still have a lot of work to do. There is a significant design flaw with my contraption and it was way less effective than I thought it would be. I will be continuing this saga in a future video but would love any input and ideas from you on how to improve it!
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Links to Referenced Products (some are affiliate links which help sponsor the content!):
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Ridgid 4251 Dual Bevel Sliding Miter Saw - homedepot.sjv....
Diablo 80T Fine Finish Blade - homedepot.sjv....
EZ Dust Mask - tidd.ly/3YESc9A
Fastcap Zero Clearance Tape - amzn.to/3uXGkm0
Contour Gauge Set (2 pcs) - amzn.to/3jWT9Xr
Vacmaster "Beast" Compact 5hp Shop Vacuum - amzn.to/3v07BEk
Dust Right Dust Separator - amzn.to/3v0DrBc
iVac Pro Dust Collection Switch - amzn.to/3vzy76y
Digital Calipers - amzn.to/3olu4s0
Pentel Mechanical Pencils - amzn.to/3CEoK7x
Machinist Square (3-pack) - amzn.to/3kF551G
Incra T-Rule (6-inch) - amzn.to/3A42AeN
Woodpeckers T-Squares - bit.ly/3x7BXDF
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[@ShopNation]

Now Available!!! Dust Chute for 12" Saws: etsy.me/3tChMhw Dust Chute for 10" Saws: etsy.me/3Bo1ywZ

[@briansylvester307]

I teach a high school principles of engineering course and will show this to my students. This is the first video I have EVER commented on. You have made/uploaded a very worthwhile video. You have shown how to mock-up, prototype, test, and evaluate results and BY FAR THE MOST IMPORTANT, show kids how to “fail” without crumbling into a heap of quivering jello. Well done!

[@georgedavall9449]

Great comment Brian! 👍

[@JerryFountain]

He did miss one very critical piece. He didn't video the control. His "no dust collection" was without the supplied dust collection port. So a real test would have included that piece (both with and without actual vacuum) as two additional test points. I'd love to see how his super design compared with the original part.

[@bullfrogpondshop3179]

"heap of quivering jello" - haha!

[@terrybriley1887]

Way to go, from another engineering teacher!

[@ClintonCaraway-CNC]

This is one of the highest compliments I have ever seen paid to a KZbinr!! The fact that your video will be used in a classroom and could possibly influence the next generation of makers is pretty high praise.

[@warrensmith2902]

I have come to the conclusion after many years of using a chop saw, that they are engineered to fill your shop with sawdust and to cross cut wood. The best way to use a miter saw in your shop and to keep the flying sawdust down, is to use it outside your shop. The next best at keeping the flying sawdust down was a flexible, removable wide mouth pickups just behind the built in saw dust pickup port. Even though the shop still had saw dust everywhere, I was amazed at how fast the dedicated shop vac filled up using this modification. Hint: Look into using deflectors under the long arm supporting the saw head to keep the high speed stuff in the area where the air is being sucked up, till is slows down and can be sucked up.

[@IanDeRanieri]

Cross cutting is actually just a byproduct. The miter saw was invented as a dust generation mechanism. In a weird coincidence the inventor discovered it could be used to cut stuff.

[@signmeupruss]

It's really great to hear someone approaching the problem from the standpoint of an engineer talking about particle velocity, point of generation and air handling capacity of the collection system.

[@stepansavelyonok5532]

I got makita Makita LS1019 and it's dust collection is the best I ever used, but after some minor adjustments(I just rearranged dust port to work parallel on two flanges rather than in sequence one after another) Even kapex was second to this one in dust collection. It is fairly simple, just two dust ports with rubber sleeves, works fine on miters. Most of the dust just bounces off the extendet fence(It just can't be moved a little sideways, only removed completely)

[@gordonmckenzie4062]

It would be nice to see the results with the supplied dust collection.

[@tundrasr5709]

I have the Delta Cruzer and the factory dust collection is like not having any at all.

[@randylamb5674]

From the research I’ve done on mitre saw dust collection you would have been much better off getting a Makita. The two dust port collection is very effective. A good portion of the dust follows the blade around circumference and bypasses the single port at the back. A blade shroud collector is the difference.

[@flyboyscott]

I tried the same thing with my Delta 12" slider but I did not get nearly as far as you did. Really like the idea of the profile duplicator. Some of those shapes are impossible to capture otherwise. I'm with a lot other commenters that airflow could help a lot. I have a dust collection system that is 6" pipe in the ceiling and stepped down to 4" for the wall runs so I have standard 4" blast gates. My idea was to use a Y adapter to step down from the 4" to two 2 1/2" ports and then run each of those two lines to either side of the "contraption" which would essentially double the airflow that you had. If work ever stops getting in the way I might give it another shot. You have inspired me.

[@nialstewart8263]

Great video, people who haven't designed new things don't realise how hard designing new things is. 👍

[@donaldstafford970]

As part of my 'research' on this issue, I've been experimenting with various size plastic bottles attached below the dust chute behind the blade. My Rigid MS is an older version but the theory is the same. I use Duct or Gorilla tape to hold in place. I have to use snips to trip the shape to fit the bezel of the metal frame/chute and to clear the fence. This method has resulted in the best collection for me. Is it perfect? Heck no, but cut my mess by 50% at least. In my perspective the blade mostly throws the chips back and up. Which is why I use a plastic bottle to widen the catch opening behind the blade as well as extend the reach closer to the table.

[@insideout144]

I did the same thing as you and I too have the same results

[@tomsears2471]

Great video. @Donald Stafford, I like your suggestion. As I was watching , it seemed like a lot of the dust was going to the outside of the device which makes me think some how you need something larger to catch that overspray. I know there are constraints. Just thinking out loud.

[@jdobad2]

I think you need to widen the front of the opening so that it acts more like a funnel grabbing the particles and suck them in. And did you block the port that came with the saw cause that could allow the dust to blow up and out as that is the way that was designed. Maybe you could put a piece of rubber or a thin brush on the back of the upper shoot to continue directing the dust down into the dust collection system.

[@donaldscheer5206]

Wow! That Really Surprised Me! Lets face It Travis! Dust Control At The Source Is Complex And Your Effort Is Much Appreciated!! It seems That Most Of The Dust Is Exiting From That Blade Guard, I Have A DeWALT Miter Saw 12" I'm Going To Focus My Efforts On That Plastic Blade Guard! Stay The Course! Great Video! Thanks!!

[@robh.8214]

A dust collector just can’t get the same volume of air moving from that small of a port. Dust collectors are hvlp high volume low pressure. When you choke the opening, volume of air does not keep up with what you need. That is why we run 4” or 6”+ ducting. The “suckiness” is good over a large area. In contrast vacuums use lvhp concept. They can’t move as much volume but they sure can suck! In this case you either have to step up the size of the inlet to give you 4” with a bigger opening or…. Get a high powered dedicated shop vac on a switch like the IVac system. Dang physics!!!! My solution is a 6” port with an enclosure behind the saw. When the dust collector is on the dust tries to move forward but you can actually see it being pulled back in.

[@dienekes4364]

So, you really ARE an engineer. Sometimes, designs don't work. It's AWESOME that you are humble enough to not only admit that something didn't work, and also to publish a video with it not working, but doing so without haven't a solution. All that to say, GREAT VIDEO! (No sarcasm at all, it's just great to see someone this honest. ;)

[@Mitrasmit]

Love this video! Things fail sometimes and that's okay. I don't have any bright ideas, but maybe you need to shield the entire area underneath the arm. It will not look terrible like those tents or boxes, as it will look part of the saw, but it would at least capture all the dust shot towards the back of the saw.

[@santista211]

You know the attachment that you removed from the saw I think something should attached there to direct the chips to the collection center?????

[@ShopNation]

haha!

[@rentalproperty4490]

I solved dust collection 2 years ago. Just wheel your miter saw outside.

[@MrFreesearcher]

I found the stock dust collection points on my big Makita does a great job at collecting dust fired up the wall behind it, but there's always a ton of dust and chips on the worktop. Maybe I just need a jet engine to give me more suction.

[@fablabupcebu]

I sneezed just by looking at all that dust in 12:41

[@tractortinkerer11]

do you have an adaptor for the Ridgid R4222?

[@johngeib]

Travis, @13:11 you can see that a lot of the dust is bypassing to the sides of the collector. Widen the area above the fence (to say the top of the diagonal section). Think more box less tight chute. Also, what infill did you set for your prints so the screws worked well, 100%?

[@Jerry-ko9pi]

More air is needed. Something like a box fan behind the saw would work better. That would draw just about everything toward it. Just have a filter in front of that. Your device does look pretty cool though.

[@ScottyDrake]

Very entertaining. Tossing away the owner's manual when you opened the box was amusing but hopefully did not send the wrong message to burgeoning woodworkers.

[@MrJohnnyboyrebel]

Since the original dust collection thing was attached to the saw body, not the base, you might follow suit with your 3D device. That way your target dust concentration follows the saw blade, rather than the 3D device remaining in a static position while the “hot spot “ moves with the blade.

[@gillisdebilio7086]

Some think outside the box.... I think under the table. Instead of trying to vacuum the chips, try blowing them with compressed air into the collection parts. I imagine the compressed air nozzle mounted underneath the table. Thats the source of dust, when that single saw teeth exit the wood, that single minuscule wood chip is projected below the surface, the wind from the blade throws it in random directions, and making the lighter than air dust fly everywhere. Having an air jet stronger than the wind of the spinning blade, might send the sawdust exactly where you need them, but only when the blade is in full depth of cut:(. Will the standard 100psi air compressor be enough? Will reducing the speed of the blade produce less wind turbulence and reduce the prejectile factor to give a chance to the vaccum and air blast to overpower the wind source? Can you add wind defectors, force the air in a channel, creating a ventury and creating a self sustaining vaccum?

[@Wanjiku82]

I've used other (10" saws) previously and was pretty surprised with the speed and cutting ability of this Dewalt saw.I have bolted mine to a table to minimize movement which I highly recommend.This is a Great saw kzbin.infoUgkxPeGkHOMe05FySypTOvYumxMn-xi39oRe with a light to see your cutting line (not a laser line).I'd recommend this saw fro anyone looking to upgrade from a 10" miter saw.

[@Fixthisbuildthat]

Lol, didn't see that ending coming. Look forward to the next iteration!

[@fearlyenrage]

Hi Information: you should think about the blade like a fan. Then the chip spray-pattern will make sense. The saw-tooth spacing transports small air pockets around and they get reflected on the wood that has to be cutted. When you start to cut then the tooth cut wood chips out and then delivers them up and almost "around" the blade. The reason why the the chips or the "wood-dust" lands behinde and up is because the "Collecter-mount" creates a airdistortion, like whats happen behinde a car in a wind-channel. The form takes on the air-flow and transports the dust where the air can snuggle up to. Thats why we talk about "flow" air can flow like a river, or at least we simulate it that way in software. We build a simple housing around our shop saw. Some painter fleece that protects the floor from dirt. you can buy them for a few $$$ heres a link to a guy who gave us the idea. kzbin.info/www/bejne/qanTi3qYqM1nh5I good luck stay safe =)

[@ameuphonium1]

I think the primary problem is the chips have more velocity/momentum than the dust collector so the just power through draft and keep going. Other tools the chips get slowed down them sucked out.

[@fearlyenrage]

your words make no sense.

[@melissasilver4014]

@@fearlyenrage The first he talked about sounded as if he was referencing the suction rate? If the suction is too weak, it can't pull on the airflow. By the way, really loved your explanation! You went into the 'science' behind it, and that was really cool. You could say that I am a 'fan' of your explanation ;)

[@fearlyenrage]

@@melissasilver4014 Hey =) you are bright, the suction has to pull the airstream from the blade into the vacumhose, thats true. But to achieve such a high suction he would really need a strong machine that moves a lot of air into a high velocity stream. But the conflict comes with hose diameter either the suction is high because the hose has 2" diameter and the machine 0,5hp or the hose has 4" and the hp needs to be around 1hp. A very high suction would be achievable with a "cyclon sucker" or a very strong "hoover". Like this one from Jhon kzbin.info/www/bejne/gKjLgZx4bNumjKM this build is feasible. Well i like it to explain to the "T". I write machine manuals, for clients, so i have to understand what im about to write or the manual will not be any help at all ^^ but back to you from where are you? =)

[@impulse0341]

I like that you showed that it didn't work. I would love to see how it works out. I have found the same results in some of my 3D modeling and printing projects. I would be fascinated to see the result you come up with for the saw. I have the Bosch 12" glider and have been kicking around some ideas for a Dust Collection solution myself. I really liked the poster board idea cause getting the measurements off the machine has always been a struggle.

[@clearcut6818]

Spoiler alert

[@georgemuff5482]

Check out Dan Pattison's efforts to improve dust collection on the Bosch. It may be an easy way to get you closer to where you would like to be. kzbin.info/www/bejne/poPPi3p3pdRprKM

[@patricktomboc2142]

I have the same 12" Bosch and found a downloadable file on thingaverse for our miter saws. It is "OK", slightly better than nothing. At best it redirects the dust inferiorly instead of up in the air. If you have a better option, I would be happy to be the guinea pig.

[@jewishmafia9801]

@@patricktomboc2142 This is Dan Pattison's video: kzbin.info/www/bejne/poPPi3p3pdRprKM Also, Keith here has a decent fix for thicker stock: kzbin.info/www/bejne/n3W0hIqdidJ6fNE In summary of Keith's video, he said to add a rubber strip at the top and follow Dan's guide

[@jeffpower6473]

I’m a full time finish Carpenter. The answer for me after years of trying to solve the dust collection problem was custom made dust “boots” from duct tape. The key is for it to be long enough and wrap around the side of the blade slightly. When it gets cut up from all the bevels and miters and compound miters I just whip out my roll of duct tape and make another one.

[@pemtax557]

I haven't actually read every comment and this just might have been suggested already, but I would try and focus on the airflow that's caused by the turning of the blade ... that is where the dust will go. Now, when you introduced your duct, it changed that flow and created a new stream above and around your device. If you want this to work, you'll have to capture and direct that flow of air when you want it. I would try and get a couple of sticks of incense or something else that would create smoke and watch the stream both with and without your device. It should be very enlightening. Then, cut some cardboard and get an idea what it will take to direct that smoke effectively into your device. I hope this makes sense, good luck and I'll be keeping an eye on this thread. Cheers!!

[@Colecraft13]

I agree. The airflow caused by the blade is much higher than the vacuum. The blade is causing a high pressure area within the collector causing the dust to be flung everywhere but in the collector. A tighter intake might increase the flow velocity by the blade but if the blade is out performing the vacuum that will still have issues. Maybe increase the size of the opening and move the collection further from the blade. The goal being to let air turbulence slow down the flow coming from the blade before being collected by the vacuum. Another solution would be to get a higher flow rate vacuum so that the collector remains at negative pressure even when the blade is turning.

[@MojoPup]

The incense idea is an excellent suggestion!

[@33brianmorris]

Engineer approved. Smoke study for the win.

[@HonoredMule]

My mitre saw (Dewalt 12") really highlights the difference between pushing and pulling air. When I hook up a vacuum to the port in back, collection actually gets worse because the vacuum prevents the intake flaps from spreading the same and the dust deflects everywhere else. Without that (and with no actual change to the physical profile of the tool or collection), considerably _more_ dust goes into that collection channel.

[@TheJesseMoody]

@@33brianmorris I was just about to say the same. Smoke study. See how the air is actually flowing. Lets REALLY over engineer this baby!!!!

[@MastaLBC]

I would hook up the original port into a Y connection and give it a try. The blade causes a turbulence that shoots dust upwards into it.

[@henslee]

dont think there is room for both

[@brianbuchmann2206]

Efficient dust collection is determined by several factors: -capture velocity; the capture air velocity must be greater than the dust generated velocity. Dust velocity will be determined by the calculating the tip velocity of the blade (blade circumference in feet x rpm) i.e. the dust will leave the blade at the FPM tip velocity of the blade. -air volume; the air volume is determined by using an industrial ventilation standard (Q=2.8LVX). Q=air volume, 2.8 coefficient, L=length of slot in feet, X=max. distance in feet from hood to source. -hood design; all nuisance dust collection hoods should have a flange around the slotted opening. Without the flange a large percentage of air will come from around the side of the hood instead of the front...where it will provide the best collection efficiency. For "fun" I ran the calcs and came up with numbers that are not even close to being realistic....which is why, for my saw (12" compound miter) I run a 2.5" hose to a shop vac and clean up afterwards! 😉 P.S. 35 years of industrial dust collection experience...

[@madjackgamingandfitness498]

Very cool to see this laid out, my first thought was velocity of material. My second thought was a bigger trap would only help, but bigger hose would be way more practical.

[@Cyclonut96]

In your formula, what is the mystery variable V?

[@anrwhitehead]

Get a zero clearance insert with a possible vacuum port when you attach the two together. This way you have suction at the moment of cut and at the rear. Possible you may need to increase the suction power needed as well.

[@cindyhammack68]

I think maybe it should be a little taller and wrap around the back more. Or figure out a way to make something that encases the entire arm assembly and move with the arm assembly.

[@sheritondettmer9078]

I think to maximize dust collection it needs to move with the saw blade and be as near to the blade as possible to avoid blowing it all over the place. Great video. I appreciate that you showed how the first iteration failed. I work in R & D and not every thing works like we think it should the first time around. Keep up the good work Travis.

[@petelasko]

this was my first thought. design the intake to attach to the head, not the base. where the little stock redirect was removed. then at least its dealing with one position/angle and not the full gradient of positions.

[@jerrykearns6344]

"it needs to move with the saw blade and be as near to the blade as possible " Like Festool part no. 471316

[@RobDucharme]

The dust collection on my Makita 12" unit works fairly well. Like, you notice a massive difference if you forget to turn on the dust collection. It has a dual collection setup on it and the lower intake is a flexible rubber. It doesn't SOLVE the problem but it works. I love videos like this because it's totally great to show failures. It's how things go in a shop!

[@robertduncan4346]

I have used a lot of different miter saws and the Makita has the best dust collection by far. Of course the Kapex is supposed to be better but at close to 3x the cost the Makita will work for me.😃

[@daxd8358]

Time and time again most videos on the most successful dust collection have been #1 Festool #2 Mikiata saws .... why? I do not remember but one of the worst was the Delta saws. If and if you can solve this then you will have opened yourself to make a stunning amount of profit for yourself as an engineer.

[@MrBertstare]

Hate to be that guy but the Kapex solves this problem. bought mine 7 years ago and it was a much better deal than today but if it was stolen I would probably go out and buy another one. being able to setup in a living room with a drop cloth and a vac and cut trim should tell you everything you need to know about how well it works.

[@GregsWorkshopOregon]

One thing I think gets overlooked when talking about dust collection is speed of cut. A certain cut is going to generate a certain amount of dust; the slower the cut the more the dust collection has a chance to collect it.

[@amorgan5844]

True, they are designed with very small ports for the amount of material being removed. My jointer has a 4 inch port and removes way more material per second (bigger surface area being cut) and i barely see a spec of dust.

[@mminniear984]

ShopNation vs miter saw dust. Can’t wait who prevails in the end! 😂

[@jimlogan140]

Travis, please keep going and solve this dust issue. The Ridgid Mitersaw is my next adventure, and I would fully support purchasing one of your 3D prints to add to my shop. Good luck brother.

[@Topscoach]

I look forward to seeing and purchasing a final product for my 12" Dewalt slider!

[@hectormunoz8905]

That is the only thing I hate with my Delta Cruze is the dust collection. If you get that dust collection to work I would soooo buy one.

[@FrankTheTank417]

I think if you change the upper piece to take into consideration the coefficient of the flux capacitor and maybe reboot the matrix to maximize the left ventricle I think that should help get the results you are looking for. Keep up the shop greatness. I know I am! 👍🏼😎

[@supergary4988]

Can’t stop laughing

[@finny5000]

This is my favorite KZbin video you’ve posted so far. So much thought, design, and time invested in a result that didn’t go as planned. I shared this with my wife and she loved it too. Keep up the great work, thanks for keeping it real, and please keep engineering to solve this issue we all struggle with!

[@ShopNation]

Thank you!

[@wam2b]

Hey! Check out the "Miter Saw Dust Collection" on the "Ring's Workshop" KZbin channel. Looks like he nailed it; at least for 90 degree cuts.

[@sparky040887]

I second this!

[@Aethalops]

You mentioned the key at the beginning: momentum or velocity of the chips. If you widen the capture shroud, a lot, and make it deeper, you have more surface area at the entry as well as more volume in the acceptance chamber will mean less fighting the bounce and turbulence generated by the blade.

[@aaronblackford981]

Down side with the vac he is using can’t do a large source of open air. Has to be concentrated. But I like the way your looking at it

[@Aethalops]

@@aaronblackford981 You're right, the vac can only do so much. But the dust already has velocity, in a direction not compatible with the catchment area of the current design. The vac can't redirect that energy to where the current structure wants to accept it. If the receiving area takes more of the splashed material, the vac only has to collect it as it falls, before it bounces away.

[@jimadams4086]

It is sometimes reassuring to see that others can spend a lot of time over thinking and building a gizmo that should, in all respects, solve a problem…..only to have it not work. Most days I think it’s just me with that luck! Keep slogging along!

[@RingsWorkshop]

I did a video on something similar on my channel, have thought about redoing it using 3d printing. I think the biggest difference I noticed was having a top on the box as most of the dust shoots up. I used brush strips which allowed the dust shoe and blade to pass through but kept all the dust inside the box to get sucked away. Worth a shot!

[@Rmharnisch]

I saw your video Rings, I was going to suggest Travis watch it. You beat me to it! ha!

[@RingsWorkshop]

@@Rmharnisch hahaha hate to self plug, but I went through basically the exact same pain points Travis did here so I very much feel his pain and frustrations haha.

[@Rmharnisch]

@@RingsWorkshop I get it and I plan on doing something similar with my setup. I recently watched your videos on not only the miter saw but the drill press dust collection. As an Engineer I love the way you methodically tackle those issues AND how you handled the shop organization. Brilliant work sir, please keep it up. Travis, you as well. I love watching your videos and frequently return to them as I'm building out my own shop currently. Keep up the good work friend.

[@ShopNation]

I've actually watched your video during my research, really liked your solution!

[@RingsWorkshop]

@@ShopNation thanks man! Yours came out awesome. Always appreciate seeing the failed attempts and what you improved upon and why. Helps make all of us better,

[@MarcLee]

with the plastic cowling and dust collection hose - be cognizant of static. The concentration of sawdust to me suggests either an unanticipated airflow or a static field. Also I would consider introducing compressed air to direct material where you want it to go. Just some thoughts. I read through a good number of comments, but apologize if this has already been mentioned

[@bobmagnets1522]

i like this idea too, redirect the exit air from vacuum so it slows down the high speed saw dust and gives the scoop more time to act on the dust?

[@MarcLee]

@@bobmagnets1522 this concept is used on cnc routers...granted larger chips but in this case helps give some control on the velocity and direction of the dust

[@MrVirgilVox]

The dust goes off in an angle from The blade in all directioms. I would keep the Stock collectors in addition to a more funnel shaped printed collector. The opening of the collector has to be as wide as possible. At least that eorked for my saw. Plus I use a record power cgv 286 with 2 Motors and a 100 mm hose split in 2 70mm Ports to suck that saw. In the end only power is power I guess 😎

[@musiqman24]

I would say maybe look into how the festool kapex does it and try to copy that somehow? I know miter saws are all notoriously bad but from what I've seen festool seems to have, not perfected, but improved miter saw dust collection by quite a lot. If you are able to solve the problem I would immediately order whatever you come up with lol I have a Cruzer and it's definitely my middle child 😂

[@greggeaton5315]

When using a compound miter saw, you will adjust the miter way more than you will adjust the bevel. Your saw table width won't allow you to adjust full miter from left to right. Fix that first. Then good luck with the dust. Best way I have found was to build a cabinet around the miter saw.

[@frederickczajka573]

I have a cheapy early 2000's Delta 10", yes I still have the starter one. I too have built a box around mine, however I also added a hose up to the dust port on the top of the blade guard. This gets "most" of it, however I still haven't figured out a way to get the saw dust the comes off perpendicular to the blade.

[@kyralaebredi1264]

That's why I left my miter saw on a rolling bench and take it outside when I want to do some cutting. Easy to blow off with the leaf blower and the shop stays a lot less (not completely) filled with sawdust.

[@rosevan5485]

I thank you for your honesty. You did study and work hard with your design and all with the 3D PRINTERS. Everything seemed alright and all, and you really took your time to show us the results…… still didn’t see any better results…. I would , perhaps like you, be gutted….. I’m just curious if you saw the design of the Festool Kapex miter saw…. Attached to their Festool dust extractors apparently no much dust at all. I’m just a DIY guy….. not really good ….. but bought some Festool equipment…. sanders, tracksaw , router, but most importantly their too expensive, well all their tools are too expensive, but when all connected together to their designed dust extractors vacuums….. I tell you … really practically no clean up to do….. I do not own the Festool Kapex miter saw…. Instead I have a 10 inch miter sliding Makita saw…. And when connected to my Festool dust extractor… I practically have nothing of dust to clean up…. Not perfect but really good….. I honesty think that the Festool engineering is much more than we think…. It’s all very much designed with all of their tools engineering…. It’s a system all designed to work with their designed equipment….. I truly hate cleaning up, and I love my little workshop as clean as a dentist chair room…. Great work… Keep on going…. Would like for you to solve your problem…. PS. Connecting my Festool dust extractor with a proper diameter hose to a Dewalt jobsite table saw does poorly…. Why ? Because the design of the table jobsite saw from Dewalt is poorly engineered for dust collection …… Thus the JOBSITE OUTSIDE TABLE SAW designation… Cheers !

[@edkuscg]

I’m glad to see someone is addressing the dust issues with these models. I have the Delta Cruzer and wow the dust. Looking forward to seeing your future results!! Keep on pursuing Shop Greatness!!

[@woodyswoodworx3534]

Like you I have a Cruzer; also like you…the dust!!!

[@shekinahvanuatu]

I too have often thought about the dust collection systems available to the modern woodworker who, even to the present day , usually has to put up with that uncontrollable workshop mess! I watched your video with great interest as also I have watched two others who have also gone to extreme lengths and had partial success. At 76 years of age I spend more time thinking about problems than actually physically dealing with them….like dust collection. What always comes to my mind, when stepping outside of the normal box, is the consideration which never seems to be given to A) the high speed of the dust coming off the saw blade which, via our own efforts is then directed into the path of the very much slower speed of the suction draft. It would be fairly simple to utilize the blower side of an extraction unit to direct a flow of assisting air onto each side of the saw blade to encourage better removal of the dust by pushing the dust into the suction draft! Just a thought Thomas.

[@dannyvannierop805]

Well....that was disappointing lol...... Kudos for your 3d modelling though........would love to see more video's on that.

[@paulstaf]

Try making a large curved "back stop" at the rear with the vacuum hose on the side so that the airflow just channels the dust into the hose.

[@raydioz]

Brilliant, semi closed loop... I suspect exhaust may need to be from above center blade.

[@twopoolpeople]

Thanks for the video. These things bug the HELL out of me. I've made so many different types of small and medium kind of boxes that fit around the blade in different ways. Not good enough. I've made enclosure type cabinets behind the saw and added sliding doors. Not good enough. I've found - for me - the best yet is a simple large boot-funnel attached to the original vac-scoop to the saw. AND I back my car to the end of the driveway, position the saw on it's mobile cart so the back of the saw faces the driveway and close to the doorway. With the dust collector on I place a large fan that is on a stand behind me and do my cuts! Virtually ZERO dust in my garage/shop. The only drawback is opening and closing the garage door when it is hot or cold!

[@twestgard2]

Definitely keep the failure videos coming, I relate to this a lot! 😀 With the benefit of hindsight, I think the saw blade functions as a pretty powerful fan that creates a surprisingly large zone of high air pressure. The cause of failure is that the collection system is a weaker fan and therefore lacks the volume/capacity to capture what comes off the saw. In short, what you made is a drinking straw trying to capture Niagara Falls. For a next iteration, I would try to make a system that uses the force coming off the blade rather than fights against it, and of course larger capacity.

[@luv2lurn707]

There are no epic solutions without epic fails. Keep your approach. Fail, analyze, redesign, execute...FARE?

[@GodsMan500]

Film the saw in low light with a narrow beam flashlight lighting up the sawdust flying off the blade. Identify the pattern and the spread and then redesign accordingly. You need to observe and understand the pattern of dust your particular saw is producing before designing a solution.

[@danschilling5863]

You have to remember that with a cut the wood stays on the blade for a short amount of time, you'll have to figure out the angle which it gets released from the blade. Maybe get in touch with some high speed/slow-mo camera guys for content. But with the dust port on the miter saws generally above from the company is just the easiest. As seen below a curved collection with dust port on the side but it might get in the way of the arm. Or CNC a new arm to have the dust port out of the side.

[@michaelsorensen7567]

Also need to consider momentum, and if you're wanting to overcome that you'll likely need more suction than the shop vac.

[@chrispeters6944]

I think no matter what you do with the shroud design, the shop vac just does not produce enough airflow. A shop vac (any vacuum really) is designed for high suction (pressure) at the expense of air flow (cfm). With high velocity dust sources, you really need to have a face velocity of around 500 cfm at the face of the collection port and have it as close to the dust source as possible. This is the real conundrum with all SCMS - a large shroud is needed to capture the dust stream and high face velocity is needed to capture/redirect the high velocity dust - but the bigger you make the shroud face the lower the face velocity given the same collector device. My SCMS sits in front of a large dust shroud basically enclosing the whole back of the saw and is attached to a 6" duct collector pipe - face velocity measures just under 500 CFM and I still get fugitive dust that is not collected. Another way to think of it: assuming your saw motor runs at 3450 RPM, the dust particles coming off the blade are traveling at almost 11000 ft/min - it takes a whole lot of air velocity to re-direct particles moving that fast! Having said all that, I love the design thought process and the prototyping with 3D printing - I really wish I had those capabilities! I think a combination of higher airflow and a wider throat on your shroud you may have a really well working setup!

[@joehanika]

Love the idea! And mixing 3D printing into the shop. I cannot wait to see the follow up design/video.

[@olachus]

And both Delta and Ridgid copied the design from Bosch, the first gliding miter saw on the market. I'm just waiting to see your video about this one from Ridgid. 👍 Try a dust booth/enclosure. I know, it's not the most elegant solution, but it reduced the amount of dust on my Bosch gliding miter saw. I still have to clean it from time to time, but not exactly after each use or minor project.

[@jonbailey6048]

Love love love this type of content, pushing the boundaries is one of the reasons I bought a 3d printer, good job man, remember we learn more through failure then success, so consider this a win…

[@Zamboni-0805]

Did you ever consider the Bosch 12" Axial Glide? I have heard that the Delta Cruzer has some side-to-side slop. If yours is the same thing with just different colors you may not be happy. I am no engineer, but my best guess is because the Cruzer and the Ridgid have the arms off to the side, whereas the Bosch has a single arm directly centered with the blade. Sure the Bosch cost a little more, but personally, I rather pay a few more $$ and have no issues.

[@therebelrobot4691]

Basically, you had an example of laminar flow interacting with the dust particles. Instead of vacuuming the dust, the 3d printed part acted as a low-pressure barrier and the high-pressure debris/saw dust bounced off the part opening and around the side. Without the dust collection, the stream was directed to the bevel gauge. It would be interesting to see what would happen if you tried to use the saw with the 3d printed part installed without the vacuum on.

[@sivisbellum1480]

Do you think lower CFM or lesser negative air flow would improve extraction? Or moving the outlet port down with a longer tube and small baffles?

[@PapaDan]

If at first you don’t succeed. I personally have been using a box designed around a cheap harbor freight 12 inch. Got the saw from a neighbor for 50 bucks built the box around it and I have to say my shop is mostly clear of dust from that tool. Also using a harbor freight dust collection with seven stations plumbed.

[@johnbernard6683]

Bane of my workshop. I’m on my second mitersaw and still haven’t been able to solve the problem. I’ve gone the oversized hood route and I can’t stand it. Might as well use a lawn and leaf garbage bag. I’ve looked for ideas on thingiverse to see what I’m missing. In the meantime, I’m dismantling the 2’x2’ funnel I created.

[@BitsandWood]

I just bought that same saw yesterday. Very interested to see what else you come up with.

[@kellyblosl3320]

I really thought it was going to work,,,,,, But where is the Shop Nation Squat for this video???? LOL hope you get the bugs worked out!!!!

[@robstrawn9170]

When you come up with a full working solution if you could also design one for the DeWalt miter saw mine is a 12-inch I don't know if yours is, I would happily purchase 1 from you including shipping cost all right, if you'd be willing to do that for me I would greatly appreciate it

[@markoshun]

Too bad it didn’t work. Strange you didn’t have the vacuum attached to the stock dust collector during the base test..? Without this, you are testing vacuum versus no vacuum which will completely confound any results. The saw that seems to get the best reviews re: dust collection is the new makita with 2 places to hook up the vacuum. And the lower one is quite a bit wider.

[@Crptc]

You should check out the miter saw dust collection video by Pask Makes. It was a big encasing, but it really did the trick. kzbin.info/www/bejne/fnu5hoR-hM-bidk

[@jimfeaster4837]

Can you develop a nozzle adapter for old 3 m hvlp spray Gun to fit the new spray gun tip Thousands of us Will have no spray Gun tips when they Stop mfg. The old Style we need adapter for new spray tips !

[@buffalosoldier7360]

Just ran across this video and was quite interested in this sophisticated attempt at a solution. I bought a Festool kapex because of the claimed superiority of it’s dust collection but I am quite disappointed at how little it collects. My solution was to buy 2 veritas magnetic dust chutes and epoxy a large steel washer on each side of the rear housing and “Y” off the single dust collection hose to the 2 chutes, this was in addition to the built in dust collection. Like your solution miter and bevel cuts will remove a chute from one side or the other but usually not both. There may be no perfect solution but I like where you’re going. Keep up the good work.

[@christopherevans195]

Did the 3d printed parts have a static charge that would repel the dust particles away from the collector? A large hood-type system with a high volume vacuum system would probably work the best.

[@g.fortin3228]

I put a smooth sheet metal shroud behind mine and have a 650 6 feet to the left through smooth stove pipe 4" dia ... doesnt catch all of it but does maybe 75% + different saw though. I'm hoping you succeed as this could be really good !

[@jack_brooks]

My saw isn't sliding, but I have the saw enclosed in the back and then put two masonite boards either side with cutouts just big enough to clear the downward motion. The masonite, just leans on the back of the fence. If I need to make a miter, I just pull the two boards. I originally designed the back to curve down to a dust collection port for a shopvac underneath, but I found that it worked so well, that I didn't need the suction. I removed it and just vacuum it out whenever it gets full. That left space to put a big drawer underneath to collect the cutoffs.

[@cq608]

I was so syked to think you actually did it, did not expect the ending, great video though. So I read through some comments and thought I would add my thoughts, just wrap the machine in a big enclosed structure, force air into one side and vacuum it out the other. LOL Seriously though, if you ever do solve this age old problem, would you make me one too?

[@McAwesome1988]

Hate commenting the "what I would do" when I don't have a shop or tools. However Seems to me. If you made it so you could do 45° bevels on both sides you would get better air flow. It's a great idea just needs more air flow

[@hdwoodshop]

Aw. I was getting ready to buy the saw and your 3d printed kit that solved this problem. lol. Not joking. Great video.

[@ricardodelacruz877]

Saludos desde Aguadilla Puerto Rico, Hello from Aguadilla Puerto Rico, Nice VID cuz the idea to collect sawdust that has a mind of its own in the mitter saw is a challenge for the ages. Very Clever Design. Trial and error its the name of the game. But as you said Something is better than nothing. I have not read the comment section so if it is repeated sorry. But Here it goes. You said and noticed that the dust seemed to collect now lower at the neck of the mitter. It has to do with the vacum so it has the power to lower the dust up to that place. That is a good indication that the speed in wich the dust is traveling up the mitter vs the one traped in the vacum at the edge of the piece is almost the same, i am no engeneer but i would try to make a skirt coned shaped with very slippery surface and some kind of Tornado like vacum airflow to redirect air to the centerpiece. Again i am no engeneer. It seems like since there are a lot of loose particles flying around like they have a purpose to make us work double in the cleaning i remembered the movie Twister and many Adds about making an engine suck more air with more power. Who knows. If there is anyone that can come up with a cool design its you.

[@kanedNunable]

need a slightly upwards facing fan, to blow the particles backwards into some form of enclosed hood maybe? negative pressure in the hood? with another sucking hose at the back

[@schvedishnis]

try using a higher pressure lower volume vacuum, you need to overcome the bounce back particles, the one escaping your enclosure. this would be a vacuum like a festo or equal quality shop vacuum.

[@TheFalconJetDriver]

You need a higher velocity and volume of air flow around a shroud that in compasses the back side of the saw! I solved this problem by buying a hood that looks like a baby bonnet and connected my 5 inch DC line to it! No more dust in the air or on the shop floor or stand.😁🛫

[@petehafner1659]

Well that sucks! Edison didn't get it right the first time either. Looking forward to your next try. Good luck! When you get it figured out I'll buy one.

[@davidegley4938]

I think a zero clearance top is what you're looking for. The dust is being redirected up the top of the shroud and there is nothing to catch it. Check out this Fisher's Shop vid to help explain: kzbin.info/www/bejne/oKOlknuBqd9rfbM

[@edtsch]

LOL! Did anyone else watch him make the prototype out of poster board and just say "you're done! just use that!"? :D

[@patricktyrie4137]

Anyone have this fix for the Milwaukee m18 10′′ sliding miter saw... Please let me know.

[@redrob2230]

Appreciate the video. Its close though! Maybe trying to do a closed version that you would cut into with the blade similar to a zero clearance blade guard.

[@mattgibbs4115]

in any vacuum system, its all about the area of the opening. if the area of the hose is your base line, then having a larger area opening reduces suction. Any open pocket in the system with a cross section area bigger than you smallest hose allows air to slow down further. I would further constrict the pocket just behind the fence. Also limit the area of the opening in front to a hemisphere at the bottom as wide as the fence and leave the rest solid. add some magnets to the base to help hold it in place rather than wedge it in on the side. once its secure run the saw without a cut piece to make a zero clearance cut. GO SLOW. cutting 3d printed items in the up direction is going to want to toss it around. maybe wedge it in from both side for the initial zero clearance cut and several cuts afterward till its worn back a little more? Or use a wider blade for the clearance cut?

[@andreweverett5174]

Haha fun video. I have the delta and build a hood and sliding face around the saw similar to pask makes. I’d buy this from you if you can figure it out. I’ll look closer at mine too to see if I have some advice to offer.

[@HRConsultant_Jeff]

Would this work better if you used a dust collector instead of a vacuum? The old problem of volume of air. If you use a dust collector, it will draw dust into the port but the vacuum will only draw it what is directed to the port, it does not suck outside of the opening.

[@akaredcrossbow]

If there was a way that a suction could also connect around the saw blade guard itself. This way it will pick up the dust that is getting kicked around in the guard, especially when the saw is sliding forward and backwards.

[@aksting]

You should attach something to the upper moving part of the saw to slow down and deflect the debris down into your dust collection area. V_V

[@jasoncy31]

Thanks for celebrating your failure (or at least not hiding it). Makes me feel like far less of an idiot when I screw something up.

[@frenchyroastify]

The problem is you should blow the dust out your port instead of vacuuming it. just kidding. I think the flap you removed from your saw needs to stay on. Most of the dust tends to hit it.

[@smedge7]

Thank you for showing that it is perseverance that will solve problems and failure is only one step closer to success.

[@rogerparadis5274]

this reminds me of another dust collection video for a band saw that initially went very wrong. They needed more airflow in the direction of the dust port. Maybe remove the baffle and put a 1.5in hole opposite the dust port. this will create a cross wind and will turn the sawdust in the direction of the dust port faster. also the dust collection could be starved for air and this would solve that too.

[@Damon_Barber]

Maybe a vent hood option like a commercial kitchen oven... only for sawdust instead of smoke/ steam.

[@richardcagle5475]

Did notice a lot less of the finer, more dangerous dust. The big chunks aren't much more than an irritant, but that fine crap goes deep. Not perfect, but definitely a solid step in the right direction