Short Action Vs Long Action Hunting Rifles

[@TomRiverSimpleLiving]

*POLL* Do you prefer long action or short and why?

[@TomRiverSimpleLiving]

The first brand new rifle I ever bought many years ago was also a 30/06. And I went with it for the same reasons you did. Funny how after all this time the 30/06 is still such a great cartridge. And I have got to try one of those Game Reaper mounts. My friend has been using them and loves it. Glad you liked the videos.

[@hammerheadms]

My brother and I have nearly identical Mossberg rifles. His is 30-06, mine is .300 Win Mag. I couldn't tell you why, possibly difference in barrel length, but his I cannot group sub MOA and it beats the crap out of my shoulder. Mine, though it still kicks like a bull with rope on his balls, manages the recoil better, and groups closer. Both are very light rifles, but I just HATED shooting his.

[@TomRiverSimpleLiving]

I would guess that with the right load his would be sub MOA, but it's a lot tougher to get a really hard kicking rifle to shoot well? And for the recoil it's sometimes similar with a 308 and 30/06. Some .308's are more uncomfortable than a similar 30/06. I always believed the powder made the difference. 308's use a faster burning powder and you get a sharper kick where the 30/06 is more of a hard push. Well a 300 mag uses even slower burning powder than the 06. That's why they have the longer barrels because they need more time to burn all that powder plus its slower burning powder. So that makes perfect sense that you would notice that difference between them.

[@davidgendron1953]

I like really short actions.... think Ruger no1 😉

[@craigbenz4835]

I don't really prefer either, but I'm down to only one short-action rifle from two ever and still use many long actions. All my shots are under 100 yds., but I have a slim chance of longer. The short action is a Remington 700 BDL from 1969 in 350 Rem Mag. I bought it used, but if the previous owner shot it, I couldn't tell. The price was too good to pass up. I use it for black bear up here in Michigan. All my deer hunting is with long-actions or lever actions.

[@B.C.Wheeling]

I really felt this video explained a lot more than others on this subject, thanks. All the hunters I know are very specific in what calibet to shoot and won't listen to another objective point

[@TomRiverSimpleLiving]

Thank you, and it's funny how we end up with our favorite cartridge(s) and once we really have confidence in something then that's it?

[@JasonVladimir]

Great video! The best explanation/analogies! Thanks for sharing!

[@Jameskenomis3]

I am in Texas and I love hog huntin. I use a 308. I am trying to do research and figure out if a long action rifle caliber would knock a hog down better? One of the places I hunt is very long, but not very wide. I need to put the hogs down very quickly so they don’t run on someone else’s property. I’m trying to figure out if there is a caliber that will kill them extremely quick. The 308 usually always does, but I have had a few take a hit from the . 308 and run quite a ways. Usually the bigger boars. You don’t know how much I appreciate your videos. There is no BS and your knowledge and experience is worth a ton. Thank you

[@hammerheadms]

I recently switched from a .270 Win to a 7mm-08 for my go-to deer season rifle. Negative opinions be damned, I love the recoil reduction. Best of all, after bore sighting and almost negligible adjustments, I can get sub 1/2 MOA at 100 yards. Sighting in for the first time nearly brought me tears of joy. Thank you FN/Winchester!

[@TomRiverSimpleLiving]

I think you'll enjoy my video on the Winchester M70 Featherweight Super Grade if you haven't seen it? I would say you and I agree on a lot things!

[@hammerheadms]

@@LivingBetterOutdoors No, I wish I could say I did. I live in Michigan, and while we do have a managed elk herd here, drawing a tag in the lottery is often a once in a life time experience. It's definitely on my bucket list, but if it's a concern with being enough gun to do the job, then I would tell you yes it definitely is. Use a 140-160 grain load, and pay close attention to your ballistic tables. Remember that your powder column is what's giving you the range to strike the target with sufficient energy. A 7mm-08 can do the same job as a 7mm RemMag, but at shorter ranges. I have heard many hunters say that a good rule of thumb for taking elk is make sure you are putting at least 1400lbs/SQ. ft. of energy on target with that bullet. So if you are using factory ammo, you may need to search for the ballistics on their web site. I shoot Hornady Whitetail, and Superformance. They don't put anything but velocity and drops on their boxes, but I know they publish complete ballistics table on their site. Find the the max range at which your loading is accomplishing that energy and hunt withing that range. If you want to see a good video on working up a load for 7mm-08, Hunt Simple has a good series for it. He hunts elk in Idaho, and has worked up loads for several calibers including .270Win, and .308. If I remember correctly he calculated around a 300 yard max hunting range on elk with 7mm-08. Bear in mind that was also on a hand load, but he it was a mild loading pretty comparable to factory ammo.

[@sammylacks4937]

I had a friend that shot benchrest and he showed me a target that had a bullet hole dead center saying that was 300. I told him what a great shot it was. He quietly said That's five shots. He showed me his rifles and introduced me to the 6 PPC cartridge. I'd never heard or known about bench rest at that time. They shoot 100 to 300 mostly and if measured I'd guess the hole in that target was a few thousands larger than 6 mm. Bench rest competitions have a roll of paper that scolls behind targets to show without doubt the shooter made 5 shots. Normally you just count holes in target. In this game there's only one hole unless someone had a really bad day. They are unbelievably meticulous doing case prep , loading powder and bullets as well as their rifles and rests. Thanks for sharing.

[@JLG098721]

I'm relatively new to shooting, this was a great video. You seem to confirm my ideas of sticking to 308 for hunting. I dont plan on shooting beyond 300 yards, realistically 100-200. The round has more than enough punch to ethically kill a deer, and is arguably the cheapest bigger caliber and readily available so I can practice with it more often to become more accurate.

[@TomRiverSimpleLiving]

It sounds to me like your ideas are spot on! If you get a chance watch some Randy Newberg's elk hunting videos. If he can take an Elk at 300 plus yards with his 308 I promise it will work on deer. And 100 to 200 yards is right in the wheel house for a 308.

[@812recovery2]

I’m still replaying the situation on Sunday when I missed the biggest buck I personally ever seen. Hunted for years as a kid then turned to drugs for 10 years an got clean November 15th 2017 and started hunting hard once again in 2018. Never owned a rifle till this year, living in Indiana it wasn’t legal for hunting as a younger man. So I’m hunting some prime time property with a 200 yard field and I decided to get a 6.5. Never buying a gun before, I thought the Savage Axis was a great deal at $350 an when I went to dial the scope in, a Weaver scope that came stock, it would hit center an then after a few shots, shoot high left 2 inches. Twice this happened so I decided that I needed a scope and an aftermarket adjustable trigger. Found the Vortex Diamondback with the FFP and at just $400, it was what I went with. Was and still is a great scope. So I’m all dialed in, hitting an inch grouping at 300 yards... I’m feeling great Tom! I got anything that come out buddy!!!!! Well I missed this monster 12 that wasn’t even a 100 yards from me!!! Sitting in a standstill rails on the left an right BUT NO rail in the middle. Long story short, I’m gonna be putting a 2x4 across in front of me when I go tonight! Thanks man, that and the fact that the tree sways really made me feel better about this whole situation. My father’s reaction to me missing my first monster buck, being a 55 year old with a few nice ones on the wall ALL take with shot gun was “I told you about those DAMN SCOPES BOY!” LOL Thanks Tom

[@TomRiverSimpleLiving]

Ok, I'm really jealous of you out there hunting in the land of giants! But I've seen a few nice ones here and blew it on a couple myself, and I can say from experience that deer will haunt you from now on. But at the same time those are the ones that really make it fun and keep us working to get better. And I have no doubt if he steps out in front of you in the future he's going to be in trouble! And I'm really glad to hear you got straightened out. That is something to truly be proud of. I've got a lot of close friends that I grew up with that went down that same road and very few of them were ever able to turn things around. So my hat's off to anyone that finds their way back because so few are able to. Good hunting!

[@812recovery2]

I ended up finding the buck 2 months later. It was a 10 pointer and I shot it looking at me, right into the chest. Never left any blood so I thought I missed. Lesson learned!

[@TomRiverSimpleLiving]

@@812recovery2 And those are lessons we all have to learn, and usually the hard way. Sorry you didn't get him then but that deer didn't die in vein if you learn something from it and it sounds like you did.

[@REDACTED-1]

This was so relaxing and informative. Like the Bob Ross of firearms. Liked, subscribed.

[@TomRiverSimpleLiving]

Mrs. RIver loves that, the Bob Ross of firearms! LOL

[@barneywaggles]

Keep in mind too...there are the .257's & older .244's that were made in short action 722 Remington's. They also produced the 700 in 6mm Rem in SHORT actions!

[@aown]

Well said, sir. Thank you.

[@barneywaggles]

Tom...An interesting piece! You mentioned some things that I never thought about much like shooting positions. Anyway...In my mind the major difference is WEIGHT...If somebody wanted a "light weight rifle"...I would choose a short action in a 7mm-08...maybe a .260...243...or 308! Actually the .308 would be the lightest...a larger bore! ...You might consider talking about the difference of the controlled feed Model 70's vs. the Post '64's! Perfectionists will tell you the push feeds are more accurate!??? Keep it up...Your videos are great! When you are looking down...do you have notes....or just gathering your thoughts?

[@BuzzzdLightyear]

Ive never once gone hunting but this was a very nice video to listen to

[@TomRiverSimpleLiving]

Thanks, I'm glad you enjoyed it.

[@WayStedYou]

The action itself is no issue. Fitting a scope on it without needing a pic rail is much easier if you have a short action as you have more places to put your rings.

[@ggreloaded5269]

Great video! Very informative. I subscribed 👍🏼

[@TomRiverSimpleLiving]

I'm glad you enjoyed it and thanks for the sub!

[@jeanmorin3247]

Very good. What I would have liked to know, in addition to all this good information, is the length that a short action is increased to become a long action. Is there as much as half an inch difference between the two?

[@TomRiverSimpleLiving]

The difference is generally exactly a 1/2 inch. And I always thought it was interesting that a 1/2 inch can make the 2 actions look so different.

[@doityourself2save]

Very helpful and easy to understand information. Thanks!

[@edrosales9682]

Great information , Thanks for passing the knowlege >

[@barneywaggles]

I once had a FN Browning in a short action Mauser in 243...A SWEET RIFLE!

[@tylarhaugan7908]

For my hunting short actions they have 18 inch barrles 7mm08 using 1 to4 139 interbond. For long actions i use 10x scope

[@OverlandbyEric]

Just the accent makes me believe EVERYTHING he said. This guy is legit.

[@TomRiverSimpleLiving]

Now that is by far the best compliment, and maybe the only one, I've ever gotten on my accent!

[@OverlandbyEric]

I was not born in States but I am a proud American .I see people like you full of knowledge , skill and you have no problem sharing it . That’s makes this country so great . It’s people .

[@paulcondie2520]

@@OverlandbyEric 👍

[@187Burks]

Haha FACTS

[@jpluv2run]

I’m not a great hunter. I won’t go hungry but I work harder than most for it. You mentioned turrets vs point blank. And for hunting sake I agree definitely about the point blank. You use any of those BDC reticles?

[@Lovenlife139]

Thank you for this, clarified somethings for me.. looking to "pull the trigger" on a .270 Win this week!

[@jordanlilley4563]

Watching this video and I notice I am wear the exact same green shirt as this guy lol awesome

[@TomRiverSimpleLiving]

I must say Jordan you have excellent tastes in fashion! LOL

[@finns23653]

One day and a couple boxes of ammo and you could know the exact holdovers for your particular ammo and rifle for at least a few longer ranges, then all you need is a rangefinder and youre no longer guessing

[@leeadams5941]

Long action as I 99.9 percent of the time shoot 30.06 which IMHO is a round that will take most everything in North America.

[@TomRiverSimpleLiving]

I have to admit most of mine are long actions. But as I've gotten older I've gotten more recoil sensitive and I have been slowly moving to the 270.

[@GBDGhotbear]

Well sir, I have to disagree with you about shooting accurately when deer hunting/ rifle hunting, either in a deer stand or not . I understand what you are saying, this can affect one's accuracy, back in the 90's I was a Fish & Game hunter education instructor. I am however, a C.M.P. marksmen competitor and we shoot from 200 yards rapid fire , slow fire, standing, sitting, prone , 300 yards rapid fire , slow fire, standing , sitting , prone , 500 yards, prone slow fire, all the way back out to 600 yards prone slow fire, with just iron sights no matter the wind conditions. Just to point out that there are 1000's of shooters like me that compete and hunt. like anything else, you only get good at something with lots of trigger time and knowing your rifle. I have taken many game animals over the years in a stand with no support railing over 300 yards. they tend to get in way. Too many times I had game come in close where the railing was in the way and could not get off a shot. as for the average hunter , you should only shoot your firearm or bow that's within your effective range. Everyone has different skill levels. if you are holding your rifle loose at the shoulder you will have poor accuracy, not counting the pain its going to inflict lol. you need to keep it tight. More time at the range will make you a better hunter in the end . Too many time I have saw hunters wound animals due to their poor/lack of marksmen ship.. With my Remington 700 short action .308 I have taken deer, elk. moose , bear, caribou, bighorn sheep, mountain goat, cougar, and the list go's on. from ranges of 100 yards out to about 900 yards, shot placement is the key. And its the same thing with my sporterized 1903 30-06 Springfield . To get to this level , the weekend warrior that spends an hour at the range is not going to get you there . you need to spend time , I mean lots of time on the range. I'm out there every chance I get , 3 -4 times a week and shoot hundreds of rounds and yes I reload. it cost too much to go buy box ammo from the store with this much shooting. Custom fitting your gun or bow will also help with accuracy, and setting up the correct optics on you gun or sight's for your bow. This all affects accuracy. Even the ammo / arrows you are shooting. Every gun / bow is different, try other brands of ammo and type and see what works best for you and you gun. same thing with your bow and body, maybe you shoot better with 4 fletching's than 3, do you shoot better with right or left heliacal or no heliacal. ,, it all matters .

[@atomicwedgie8176]

You left out THE most important piece of equipment for accuracy...a good sling! Marine Rifle Coach

[@GBDGhotbear]

@@atomicwedgie8176 true i did..lol

[@larryroach5643]

I'd guess a carbine style rifle is more likely to have a short action? Like maybe a Ruger American Ranch?

[@braddavis2834]

Love the videos

[@TomRiverSimpleLiving]

Thanks Brad

[@shawncrittenden6216]

Well I came here cause I was looking for a replacement Stock for my Kimber 6.5x55 sporter conversion and on the "bell and carlson" sight it says M96 "short" and "Long action". Its a Carl Gustaf 6.5x55 Mil sporterized its a M96, are not these all the same action? I have read 6.5x55 "Requires a long action" is there such a thing as a M96 Short action?

[@capt400]

Thanks. excellent job. You answered questions I have had.

[@TomRiverSimpleLiving]

I'm glad I could help.

[@MrHf4l]

Tom, what recoil pad do you have on the BDL? I’m trying to find one that will fit with the white trim plate.

[@TomRiverSimpleLiving]

It's a Limb Saver. And this particular BDL had a slight curve in the butt so I took a fine cross cut saw and cut it off straight for the recoil pad and then planed it dead flat. It hurt to do it but it sure is a lot more pleasant to shoot with the recoil pad. Then I trimed everything to fit.

[@rxxg4563]

Great info for a beginner like me.

[@finns23653]

Love em both, my only rifle is 270 win, but my next (deer) rifle will probably be a short action

[@barneywaggles]

Does FN Winchester make short actions today??

[@NeSPyS]

Another thing to consider is that a short action will knock an inch or two off of the length of the rifle. Additionally, bigger, long action cartridges tend to use longer barrels. All of this makes short action rifles handier, generally speaking.

[@TomRiverSimpleLiving]

Great point and something that sort of goes along with that is if someone gets a long action cartridge for the extra velocity then they should try to get a longer barrel so that they can get all of the velocity they can out of it.

[@paullewis1088]

May have left out that the extra v velocity comes with much more recoil

[@TomRiverSimpleLiving]

You're right but I didn't want to go down that rabbit hole. The long actions do have more recoil which is just part of getting more velocity, but there are a lot of factors involved there and for the most part I wouldn't say you get "much" more recoil. If you compare long action and short action cartridges of the same or similar caliber the long actions do have more recoil but generally not that much more. For example .243 has almost no recoil compared to the punch of a 30/06 but if you compare a .243 to a 25/06 the 25/06 has more recoil but I wouldn't say it is was that much more. Especially by the time you add in the extra weight you usually get with a long action rifle. Same for the 30 calibers. I've shot some 308's that were more uncomfortable than most 30/06's. So I agree with you about the long actions having more recoil but that subject is a little complicated.

[@ozarkmountainoutdoors3255]

i'm new to firearm I got a Rem. model 700 in 300 WSM the dumb question is this a short action gun right? because I'm looking to buy a custom stock for it.

[@TomRiverSimpleLiving]

Yes it is a short action, and no that was not a dumb question. There are no dumb questions in firearms except for the questions you have but don't ask.

[@ozarkmountainoutdoors3255]

@@TomRiverSimpleLiving thank you my friend and you have a nice day

[@taylormoore3121]

For some Western hunters who take their rifle on long walks every fall for elk and deer. We often prefer short action for the weight savings generally speaking. I like the .308 for a pack rifle capable for deer and elk out to 350yd. 7mm-08 is great to.

[@taylormoore3121]

@@whiteyfisk9769 Hey I get that perspective. Coming from a long history of backpacking I'm used to counting the ounces. If you don't count the ounces you may hate the pounds. It sneaks up quick. 308 always does everything I need anyhow. Why not enjoy a lighter weight, lighter recoiling rifle and the ammunition is also lighter. Which is where weight savings comes in more than just the 3 ounces of the rifle. Could end up saving a half pound vs using something like a 300 win mag.

[@garyk76]

I like short not over accuracy but is just because I can work the bolt faster Incase a follow up shot is needed a deer really don't know which he got hit with

[@duaneholcomb8408]

In My experience. A 243. Or a 270 offers a flat shooting. Trajectory and will serve you well in most instances. I have never shot a deer much over a 100 yards So the 243 is all I need. But the 270 offers a longer range with greater energy. Because of bigger grain bullets available but I only use a 130 grain in my 270,, but I'm more a buck shot man. And take close shots on most of deer. So. If you live out west or where you take long distance shots you may like a bigger cartridge,,, .

[@TomRiverSimpleLiving]

I think you nailed it there Duane. One of each, a long action and a short action, and that would pretty much cover everything anyone could ever want to do with a rifle. And those 2 in particular would do a great job.

[@EFD620G]

Meat on the ground .270 holes in paper 6.5 creedmore. Ballistic coefficient tells it all. longer bullets just shoot better at long range. the 264,270,280 are all so close but the 6.5 with it's BC will be better at long range. Speed is nice, but without that BC you behind before you start. And I'd like to see some stats on FLEX differences between long and short actions, not barrel flex. I personally don't think it's worth worrying about.

[@TomRiverSimpleLiving]

I really need to do a video on B.C. and the 6.5 one day. There's just so many misconceptions about it. And I would love to see some stats on the flex of a short action action as well. I think there is something to it and it's probably relevant for bench rest shooters but I don't think it's worth worrying about either.

[@jerryreynolds4731]

My first rifle, .30-06, sophomore in HS in 67. I have owned, 7mm Rem Mag, did not like the recoil., Have owned half a dozen 06s.... traded for a 700 Mountain Rifle in .270, really a sweet rifle.....got worried about the 06s and 270 mixup by my sons. Sold the 270. I have sold all my rifles.......except my T/C Venture in 7mm-08, At my age, recoil is no longer enjoyable.

[@TomRiverSimpleLiving]

I had some health problems 11 years ago and the very first thing I noticed is that I was a lot more recoil sensitive. So I can understand exactly what you mean. But that 7mm-08 you have is a fine cartridge also and certainly capable.

[@TechnikMeister2]

I recommend the book, "Death in the Long Grass" by Peter Capstick, for a comprehensive account of real world dangerous game hunting. When he refers to "Death" he is talking about avoiding your own. What does the long action bring to the table of assets in avoiding becoming the prey, yourself. Even the engaging of a safety can be heard by a big cat from a mile away. It can best be summed up this way: "A short action is a death sentence because the round, with its fat case and steep shoulders, clatters when you chamber it. A long action round like the 30-06, H&H Magnums, Mauser and its derivatives, slides silently home and with utter reliability." When you compare a 300 WinMag to say an H&H 300, even the kick of the latter is more manageable, allowing the faster reacquisition for a second shot. So if you are really serious about your hunting, look for a long, tapered cartridge.

[@lordjor96]

I think is mainly because of recoil that shorter action are more accurate. Light recoil means fast recovery and faster follow up shots.

[@TomRiverSimpleLiving]

I can't disagree with that. And I hadn't thought about it until I read your comment, but I wonder how much of short actions having less flex has to do with the short action cartridges creating less vibration to start with?

[@nicholasridge3817]

Not always so, I have shot a 308 and in a light rifle it kicks, I have a 280 akl in a long action and loaded with slow burning powder it kicks like a black powder rifle

[@shawnwells5719]

I have two Remington 700s...a long action ADL in 270 Winchester, and a short action XCR in 300 WSM. After shooting both for over ten years, it's impossible to determine which is more accurate. Either one of them will shoot 0.7 MOA on the same day. I also have two identical Weatherby Vanguards, a long action in 257 Weatherby and a short action in 22-250. The short action produces smaller groups, but is it more accurate? I attribute it to the fact that the 257 has about twice the recoil of the 22-250. In terms of hitting a target with a single shot, they are about equal, and in windy conditions, the 257 kicks 22-250 butt. Anyone who thinks they're imperious to recoil is delusional.

[@TomRiverSimpleLiving]

I have to agree with all of that. I think recoil makes way more of a difference than the actual length of the action.

[@bannedagain1483]

I'd doing good sir. Thank you for the video.

[@TomRiverSimpleLiving]

And thank you for your comment.

[@greekmaster1001]

OK so I have a HOWA model 1500 in 25/06 is mine long or short action?

[@TomRiverSimpleLiving]

Long action, and in a great rifle and cartridge.

[@jmartin9059]

*IF the question is, "What One size does all...?" Well, none of them do. HOWEVER, if you limit to 400 meters or 500 meters and understand how to hold over for distance.... 9,3x62 with a 285 grain or heavier bullet can take down anything with legs on any continent. In American'ish terms 9.3x62 mm could have been called a .366-'06 Improved. It is a lot of cartridge.... and, not intended for use by recoil shy persons.*

[@russellkeeling9712]

I don't think I could agree with the theory that a short action is more accurate because of the length of the action and more flex in the long action. No matter the length of the action if it is a lockup at the front they are basically the same length from bolt face to case head, what follows after the locking lugs is of no matter.

[@TomRiverSimpleLiving]

I never quite got it either but that's what the bench rest guys say?

[@jeanmorin3247]

This is coming out of the horse's mouth. You can bet on it. The logic that I see here is feared by the marketers, but so helpful to the consumer. No Bull Shit just to sell a more expensive one...

[@TomRiverSimpleLiving]

I've been called the other end of the horse a lot but that's a first for coming from the mouth! Thanks!

[@lmbear]

You might want to tell Tikka this. ha ha..

[@noahway13]

Quick Tip: Bolt Action Rifle Long and Short Action Differences - KZbin

[@barneywaggles]

I will add...a light rifle in .308 KICKS like Hell!!!

[@dnunz1247]

Try and stay awake while this guy's talking