Shotguns as a Drone Countermeasure?

InRange is supported by viewers like you:
/ inrangetv
Benelli has built a dedicated semi-automatic M4 shotgun, using No4 shot and a RDS. This is exactly what we recommended in this video.
armyrecognitio...
CivDiv - How to Survive in War:
• How to SURVIVE in War
Weaponized commercial drones are part of modern conflict zones.
Let's talk some theory about strategies on how to deal with that new reality.

[@InrangeTv]

Benelli has built a dedicated semi-automatic M4 shotgun, using No4 shot and a RDS. This is *exactly* what we recommended in this video. armyrecognition.com/news/army-news/army-news-2024/benelli-introduce-new-rifle-as-solution-against-uav-during-battle

[@ryanthorne5432]

You could put the drone on a pole and shoot it to determine effects of different loads. The drone would not be in flight, so the FAA should have no concerns.

[@737215]

Pepper brand new propellers at distance, attach them to a drone to see if it's still capable of flight.

[@storebrandpeas5413]

A fifty yard pole?

[@WinterCedar]

@@737215 you could even just shot a powered down drone on a pole then try and turn it on.

[@kevindunwoody8101]

I think an even better idea would be hanging it with fishing line from a tree or something so the pole doesn't block shots also it would be easier to set up.

[@AkiSan0]

@@storebrandpeas5413 you can put the drone on top of a target and just flip it sideways...

[@SnausageKing]

I fly drones and I have a license. I can tell you the loss of a single propeller will cause a traditional quad drone to crash. Striking a leaf, a small twig, will cause some very light damage to the prop requiring replacement upon landing. In theory, even the lightest bird shot should do more damage than that and damage the prop to the point the drone drops (though uncontrollably). Two thoughts: 1. I wonder if you could shoot a propeller at 50 - 100 meters, then install it on a drone to see if it will be capable of flight. If you do not post any video FROM the drone’s camera, you MAY be able to post footage of it attempting takeoff. Issue here is that we are attempting to fly a vehicle that will likely be unable to operate safely. If it’s under 150 grams and we don’t use its footage commercially, we don’t need a license. The rules MAY be different enough to allow this. 2. Look into RC flying aircraft. I’m unfamiliar with the rules here but I do recall seeing them at machine gun shoots. Go with a small helicopter design, and any damage resulting in a crash would likely do the same to a quadcopter. Anyhow, you guys have been onto something with the WWSD AR and now this. Shotguns would be easier to field than the missile systems that keep getting researched by the MIC when we’re talking small commercial drones. I could go on and on here, but I think there’s just one more thing. There’s likely to be a maximum height these drones can operate within while still allowing accurate recon. You’re looking through the drone camera on a phone, tablet, or FPV googles. If we figure that out, then the range/spread of the ammunition might be the biggest factor.

[@glenlivett78]

Having hunted waterfowl my whole life, my uneducated anti-drone opinion would be #4 buckshot, which is similar to what we use (T or F steel shot) when we hunt geese. I'd also go with a made for purpose waterfowl shotgun, 24 inch or larger barrel 3.5 inch chamber.

[@edenironworks2]

3.5" imo is very important. More payload more better

[@terryfaugno9242]

Yes, a 28"-34" sporting semi-auto with an extended tube magazine would be a better choice than an 18" Benelli M4 or Beretta 1301.

[@glenlivett78]

@@edenironworks2@edenironworks2 I have shot many game birds out of the air with everything from a .410 to a 10ga 3.5, but it is one case where "manumits" actually have results in the field based only on my observations.

[@Sableagle]

Eeee, 24" or longer, a UK-legal shotgun! Finally, we know why they insisted on that rule. They were _planning._

[@Cr0wmagnum]

I would think at that distance a heavy waterfowl load be it steel or whatever would work.

[@samthenerf]

One thing to note is that the FAA does not regulate flying in indoor spaces, even just a roof puts a space outside the national airspace system, so if you wanted to do such a test at an indoor range or other covered space it would not be something the FAA regulates.

[@Kasian02]

Great timing. Couple days ago I've read recent news from soldiers that russian army started buying VEPR-12's for shooting drones. Soldiers work in pairs: one with "anti-drone gun" stops drone and holds it in place and then second with shotgun shoots it from safe distance. Shotguns are also useful for neutralising small mines like "leaf-mines".

[@mnk9073]

The anti-drone gun is crucial to this and the team has to be actively looking for drones because in any other scenario the reaction time is just not fast enough to go through all the motions before the prick with the joystick pushes the button.

[@Geekofarm]

Karl, a clay shooter & hunter here. You might want to look at steel shot. It has a higher initial velocity (doesn't squash like lead), and being less dense you get a lot more pellets per oz - about half as much again. Granted the velocity drops off faster, but if you're after the drone blades they'll provide the collision speed even if you just dropped steel shot on them. Steel is hard, and it'll knock a duck out of the sky at 50 yds. Caveats: Steel-rated barrel, obviously, and pinging steel shot off a steel plate is bad karma.

[@mikecross2435]

Shoot a non moving drone from the bottom then see if it will turn on and fly. OR, ask one of your friends in Mexico to preform the test. I'm sure it would be filmed on a potato but it would still be cool.

[@HerrGesetz]

There was a case here in NZ not long ago when a farmer noticed a drone flying around his house, he came outside and shot it down with a shotgun, threw it in the trash. Told the police and it ended up in the media. Police said he had a right to shoot it down and left it at that. America is the land of the free though, definitely totally free

[@danirizary6926]

@4:37 almost any damage to a drone prop causes instant, unrecoverable, loss off control. The baldes readily shatter, and vibration at their prop rpm is catastrophic.

[@tamlandipper29]

Do you have any footage of such a failure? And is that all props or just cheaper plastic?

[@tylerzmistowski5867]

Finally justifies the price of TSS flitecontrol flex

[@groomersgotohell]

nothing justifies the price of TSS. bismuth is good enough.

[@blantant]

As an unsuccessful (pressured) public land hunter only, I finally found a use for my unused TSS I pad 10 bucks a round for 🤣

[@tylerzmistowski5867]

@@groomersgotohell if only we could get the flitecontrol and FC flex wads as a reloading component...we could buy TSS by the kilo and load them alot cheaper than 13 bucks a peice.

[@TheRoamingHazard]

@@tylerzmistowski5867 There's a reason they don't want to sell the wads made for tungsten. $$$

[@michaelmcatee221]

My first thought is something like #4 buckshot. I don't trust the tiny birdshot to do adequate damage. #4 buckshot is the equivalent of a large magazine from a .22 rifle and I trust those pellets to break the drone when they hit it.

[@TomSmith-nw9bk]

have you thought about using an r/c car as a drone substitute? While not perfect it may be similar enough to get an idea. Plus if you wanted to put a propeller decoration on your toy car that's just a fun decoration like a pinwheel on a bike.

[@tenchraven]

Thats not a bad idea- be easier in winter, using a pusher prop sled. Problem- need someone to make a bunch of the silly things.

[@thebarkingmouse]

One problem with using a shotgun, and trust me they are better than nothing, is that even if you hit the drone it still explodes, and is still close enough to catch you with frag. On funker530 there are a number of videos of attacking drones getting shot, exploding, and still causing casualties. One of the worse ones was a drone carrying a directional explosive. Must have been 20 meters away, and still starched both of the soldiers.

[@joshp2542]

Those drone videos are brutal. Plus it must be terrifying to hear the buzzing around you.

[@tommihommi1]

it's the difference between shooting at a drone to defend and armored vehicle, which means you have to be outside said vehicle, and shooting at drones to defend yourself when you're not near armored vehicles and the drone is dropping anti personnel grenades on you

[@thebarkingmouse]

Some combination of an automated detection system with a semi automatic shotgun. Combining audio, visual, perhaps LIDAR for fine targeting. Of course this woukd require a vehicle to carry, but any vehicle, even a quad woukd do. The problem with jamming is with cheap phone processors you can program in object detection. Lock on while outside jamming or detection range, and ride in GOT style. Or mix old with new and have a second drone outside of the jamming envelope lasing the target & program a beam rider.

[@verager2493]

Ya, you'd have to catch the drone before it's above you to help with a grenade dropper at all, so this seems more like anti-surveillance than anything else. ... and I guess if you reach a stalemate, that's at least some of your friends safe from the same drone. As cold a comfort as that is

[@Geekofarm]

The drone might well go off, but I'd rather one went off 50 yds away than right next to me.

[@Kriss_L]

I think it possibly would be legal to do inside, which is outside of FAA jurisdiction. A big barn or warehouse might work.

[@abitofapickle6255]

Ryan Mcbeth, I believe, covered this subject. I honestly would love to see you two have a lengthy conversation about it. Great video as always!

[@tamlandipper29]

I do think the twocharacters would have an interesting day doing that.

[@InrangeTv]

Shooting down grenades with shotguns during WW1 is a myth that was propagated by advertising and propaganda, not reality: kzbin.info/www/bejne/nnbXZHmdiqajock

[@tmartin3151]

No but shooting down carrier pigeons was a reality and did happen.

[@TheRoamingHazard]

@@BigMakBattleBlog The range is why he is suggesting TSS shot. Are TSS loaded shells even a thing you or the enemy would have access to over there?

[@Haris122]

@@BigMakBattleBlog Any chance that multiple people shooting at it with their rifles in tandem is of any better effectiveness in your experience, as it starts hovering? Or someone with a scoped full power rifle being more effective for drone defense (again as it’s not moving around much)?

[@carlchong7592]

I've got one funny idea for your drone shooting work: Get some big helium balloons and float up some drone parts to shoot at. A tethered balloon could hold enough important bits to show what your shot does at vertical distance. It might be possible to float two balloons with diagonal tethers so you could hang a laundry line of parts to shoot between the balloons which would give you more shots per balloon.

[@kettwood7248]

Well if You thinks drone is pricey (which it is) so better 3Dprint a mockup of a drone, hook it with a real on e and 20 yards of rope, and then shoot thoose mocups, they also can be filled with parts of dead HDD ans so like stuff to measure damage to drone internals also bring a blunderbus and a duck-cannon to work

[@IncognitoAtreides]

In the Netherlands, they have anti-drone hawks that are trained to take them down. How cool would it be to have a dedicated falconer in your squat?

[@joshp2542]

They make a choke for the longbeard that gives you a decent pattern out to around 60-70 yards supposedly.

[@HorrorshowEU]

Carl, I just got home from from a long exhausting work day, I see this video pop up and realizing I have a backlog of InRange videos to enjoy. This is just what I needed right now! Been a long time watcher, and your content and personality has helped me through several rough periods of medical problems in the past. Much love from Sweden, never stop rocking brother

[@terryfaugno9242]

Buck Kicker makes chokes that give standard wads similar performance to Winchester Flight Control wads, and they're available in full choke spec. Not magic, but they give your loads some extra reach. Also, I think that a lot of the drone drops are done from altitudes greater than 50yds/m and would render shotguns ineffective, though that can also vary on the skill level of the operators. A veteran operator from a UAF unit like Magyar's Birds could probably drop a grenade on you from 300-500ft altitude with lethality, while a noobie who's barely learned how to fly a drone without crashing it on take off will need to fly a lot closer.

[@GUARDIAN.13]

On another note I find it very interesting that they stack the laws to where it's almost like they do not want us to test being able to take out drones efficiently as citizens...

[@tamlandipper29]

With drones likely to be a key part of a future economy, is that really surprising? You can't shoot mules just cause you want to either.

[@johnkey1682]

Drone blades are incredibly fragile, wouldn't bird shot be effective against those? you would only need to hit one blade.

[@Vilamus]

I literally said last week that trap shooting would have no real world application. Turns out that was, it has actual real world use as a training sport.

[@KanshunGanshun]

I'd quite like to see the bead vs red dot in trap/skeet shooting comparison you mentioned in the video. I've wondered if that would actually be a beneficial enough to use in competition

[@terrybailey9621]

I recently had this conversation with a few of my friends, they all went with turkey loads would be best but I propose heavy waterfowl loads of bb or larger would be ideal. I mostly look at it as if you have a drone busting shotgun that's your main weapon and bb or larger shot will still do quite a number on an enemy combatant inside of shotgun range (75 yards and in) and with the size of the shot you'd only really need one or two impacts to knock down a drone or at least severely damage it.

[@vaughanellis7866]

Its not just in war zones that counter measures against drones are becoming more common as municipalities in the US are using them to search for zoning infractions! use a long barrelled fowl gun 3 1/2" chamber & steel shot, but ANY shotgun is better than none at all as any damage to a drones rotors will bring it down.

[@Sableagle]

Isak Finnbogason has flown his drones through lava fountains. One came back with damaged props from impacts on airborne red-hot rocks.

[@TheRoamingHazard]

Steel shot is the last thing you'd want to use. Only reason anybody shoots it is because it's cheap and non toxic. Performance wise it's the worst.

[@robertqueberg4612]

Hello Matt, My first time to watch your channel. As a seventy six year-damn old retired toolmaker, former trap boy, and part time farmer, with a lifetime interest in shooting sports of nearly any flavor, I am scoring this video, as an A+. Your presentation makes sense to an experienced, show me the numbers kind of guy. Sadly, most people discuss home defense weapons in roughly this order: 357, 9mm, and 12 gauge 00 buckshot. This demonstrates no new thoughts or reasoning. I am so pleased to see your choice of ammo for this job. Turkey, goose, and duck loads are meant to throw shot a long way, without having holes, and having the pellet mass/ energy to cut feathers, and break bones, on their way to the heart and lungs. Shells loaded with grex or other buffering agents will produce better patters. This might make another program, with a pattern board. A single stage press set up for 3” hulls, small bags of various shot sizes, different wads, and some slowww burning powder, may bring new thoughts to the folks in the front row. Thanks again for sharing your thoughts on external ballistics, and the state of the union in these times.

[@Gunnut10mm]

Bit of a shotgun nerd here, I think turkey loads are a great place to start. Other options would be higher performance pheasant ammunition. My first pick however would Hornady coyote ammo. They have a flite control type wad and use BB size lead shot. I agree the tungsten would be best but at $13 a shot it gets expensive to issue them widely enough.

[@novembermike512]

I think the minimal legal test would be taking individual parts (the prop is probably the easiest), suspending it with string and using that as a proxy. You might even be able to get parts that aren't technically for aircraft but are reasonably similar. When I looked this up, there was another shell type called "skynet" rounds that have a net with weights on the outside that wraps around the drone like something from a cartoon. You can buy the 2.5 inch shells, and when I was looking at it France just bought 28" Benelli supernovas for this that can fire a 3.5 inch shell with a bigger net.

[@onezerotwo]

cross the border to Canada, our drone laws are wildly lax (other than privacy stuff) compared to the US, just a bit of paperwork to bring a gun across or I’m sure someone can lend you one

[@iPig]

Surely electronic jamming is the ideal way to protect against drones (assuming your side has the resources for it). I have a friend in the Navy who told me they have this backpack contraption they use while in port that disables drones that wander too close to the ship. I wonder how hard it would be to rig up some kind of high power and highly directional piece of jamming equipment with off the shelf resources.

[@henrysmithtv]

I feel like the standard birdshot would still be effective. Those drones are made of thin plastic and, like you said, it doesn't take a lot to destabilize them

[@williamprince1114]

Waterfowling/Goose hunting loads might be more effective.

[@alexsawicki]

So, on the legality of shooting drones... Obviously those laws are stupid. But, I do have another question/idea for testing that: What about shooting a grounded drone? What about a "drone analog", that's not flying (that's maybe even incapable of flying, like you've removed the props or the control computer or something)? At least, be able to legally test the damage these rounds do to the body of the drone, right? Sure, we wouldn't get data on whether it would actually knock the drone out of the sky, but... It would be better then nothing.

[@mattgibson351]

Good and informative video. Because weaponized drones are going to be a “thing” on the future battlefield, I’d expect purpose built shotguns and ammunition to deal with this threat. Something like a semi automatic shotgun with a detachable magazine and loaded with #5 or #6 buckshot would be very effective against commercial drones. You used what was commercially available (turkey loads) but I could see the U.S. Army placing a large order for purpose made shotgun shells. In that case, they could order whatever shot/load/size combination they wanted.

[@Stormer-vx5kw]

Would those cheap rc helicopters bypass the FAA restrictions even if they wouldnt be that accurate for testing?

[@meisenhut31]

Bird shot might be more effective than you think. Birds and drones are both "designed" to be very lightweight so even a small piece of lead hitting with sufficient velocity could still do considerable damage to a propeller blade. If you mess up a single blade of one of the props the drone will probably lose all control authority and tumble to the ground.

[@ActualHumanPerson]

Trained hawks or crows to tackle the drones

[@000Mazno000]

This is actually a sick idea lol, imagine modern militaries hiring/training falconers as part of a squad

[@bastius5930]

A few years ago I saw an video on an airport using gyrfalcons to do this to recreational drones. Problem with that in a military environment is training a large bird to get blown up by the first drone it hits is not cost effective. Drones are so much faster now too.

[@ActualHumanPerson]

Falcon Force😂 I'll start working on the emblem

[@moebossman]

Could you simulate shooting a drone by having a drone, or something like it, mounted on a post and have someone drive you around as yo try and shoot it? That should avoid all those legal issues and should be analogous enough.

[@Lawfully_Armed]

I think a mix of the cheap 3" steel shot and #4 buck would be good mix for drones and folks.

[@sethrich5998]

There would be no point in using steel shot. Steel shot loses velocity much faster than lead due to its lower density. It literally only exists because of environmental regulations, and offers no performance benefit. A mix of #4 Buck and 5 or 6 lead shot would probably be fantastic though.

[@Lawfully_Armed]

@sethrich5998 Steel is less dense, but it's harder than lead for when they start making the props out of something harder than printed polymer.

[@matteoorlandi856]

here in italy you can find hunderds of old but trusty beretta a300 and variants for as little as 50 euros and they are very reliable shotguns, semiautomatic, easy to maintain and in general loved while hunting. i would send those to ukraine, because i know for a fact that they would perform way better than those turkish shi-fi shotguns that simply are not up to the job, and cost more. hell the franchi 48, a copy of the browning auto 5 with simplifyed mechanic, is sold for 25 euros.

[@lardomcfarty9866]

Damn, I want to go to italy then. The A300 is like $1000 în the US

[@SLPFPV]

There is an 8 year old video of rotor riot (before they sold out) doing a drone shooting range test with some police shooters and pro pilots

[@SLPFPV]

also @InrangeTv those FAA rules only apply inside the US. Most of us drone pilots travel to Mexico for filming once or twice a week 😉

[@fujimi715]

Agreed. Funny this video comes out now as I just bought a shotgun this past weekend for both survival hunting and drone defense. The federal premium blackcloud 3in magnum #4 steel shot 1450fps did great. Compared to 7.5 and 8 bird shot, it had more pellets penetrate further. It also had flight control wads and was about $1 per round. So not outrageously expensive like the tungsten

[@Superchunk-k2h]

Seen a few clips of Russians shooting crude FPV drones with shotguns. Not sure how much utility you'd get out of equipping standard militaries with dedicated shotguns though, all they'd have to do is replace those quadcopters with something faster like lancets.

[@tommihommi1]

that's how all arms vs countermeasure situations work just because it's possible to design a weapon that the countermeasure doesn't work against, doesn't mean it's worthless.

[@Sableagle]

Coming soon to a theatre near you, the under-barrel shotgun attachment for your rifle.

[@Fragtastik]

Then you have, with a relatively inexpensive action, forced the enemy to spend time and resources on an even more expensive workaround. That's a win.

[@ForOne814]

@@Sableagle that was tested. A 12 gauge barrel with a cartridge already in it, you just put it in a standard GP-25 and it just works. The problem is that it's single-shot and the barrel is extremely short.

[@JohnMoses1897]

​@@Fragtastikgold star award - you want to create a dilemma, not a problem.problems have solutions, dilemmas you must choose one which is as bad or worse than other

[@BlueJayWaters]

My instant thought on what load was number 7 steel shot. Through personal witness as well watching a few guerilla channels, magnum loads of between 5 and 7 shot work well, and I imagine from personal use steel shot would be more likely to break the brittle plastic and down a drone with less pellets having to impact, increasing the likelihood of success. I have heard a few companies have been testing drone loads that are basically fancy turkey loads. Just like breaching rounds, there's always a civilian equivalent

[@Myhouse69420]

When I was deployed in 2020 the Air Force security forces had an anti drone gun. It would send radio waves to the drone and jam the signal. I can’t remember the exact terminology but it look like a prop from a 1980s sci-fi movie.

[@SLPFPV]

FAA doesn't have any power over indoor flights either. All you need is a large enough indoor range and you can do this in the USA totally legally.

[@Dot-bs4yv]

Personally I think the Benelli M3 would be the perfect choice for a shotgun in this role, semi-automatic with the ability to change to pump if your loads aren't enough to cycle and somewhere around a 20in barrel with a full choke... I understand the want for the large 3in turkey loads that hit hard but honestly if all you need to do is clip the propellers then some high velocity trap loads I think would suffice? Shame that testing it has all these hoops to jump through 😅

[@magoid]

One thing I was thinking about this stuff, is about using a small net as the payload of the shotgun cartridge, maybe with metallic pellets as mass to add to the inertia effect. If such a thing could be manufactured, it would grab a drone and simply stop its propellers, thus immediately sending them to the ground. I remember the Taofledermaus YT channel firing a load of buckshot united by a wire, so the concept is not impossible to try out.

[@thecommissaruk]

This already exists. Someone made them and markets them to the police. It doesn't work very well. I think Taufledermaus did a video testing them.

[@stonecoldmunchin]

They issue with drones is detecting it. I fly drones a lot and i have trouble finding it at 50 feet high and rarely can anyone see it over head. By the time you see it shooting down a flying bomb will likely still be bad for you.

[@justinbrown691]

I have a Part 107 and I'll explain the FAA's thinking. Simply put, damaging a drone like a DJI could cause it to "Fly away." A little DJI Mavic can fly at over 30 mph for a 30 minutes depending on environment. You may shoot at your drone on your property but that drone could fly thousands of feet straight up or over to the next town if damaged, They don't write per drone legislation so they have to err even longer and faster possible fly aways. There are a lot reasons drones "Fly away" but for this test my concern would be damage to collision avoidance sensors. If one of those is damaged the drone may think it needs to avoid an obstacle and fly unpredictably. Those sensors can be disabled but other damage to the system could cause the same result. I agree with the FAA on these rules in general, but they lack many common sense exceptions. Like, what if you were in a warehouse shooting at the drone? It can't reasonably fly away but that would still be a violation. I have heard they are working on this and a bunch of other issues with treating quad-copters like real airplanes. Part 107 isn't that hard and is worth doing especially for someone that uses a camera as much as you do. Drones can really add a lot of perspective and its hard to really appreciate until you actually have it.

[@WJS774]

When combat drones are cheaper than the infantry's rifle. Shotguns are the obvious choice, but I can see that it could be quite difficult to land hits, since drones are _highly_ manoeuvrable. If the drone pilot flies evasively, I would expect them to be much harder to hit than birds or clays flying in a straight line.

[@carlrooker]

One thing I did not catch you mentioning. You're talking about shooting 50 yards, or 150 ft. The maximum legal altitude for a drone is 400 ft. That being more than twice the height that you're talking about shooting one. Now I realize that in a situation of war, legal altitude is not an issue. Drones can fly at thousands of feet. Even at 400 ft, except for the larger drones, you would have trouble seeing it or even hearing it. Much less being able to shoot it. I do thank you for mentioning the illegality of shooting a drone under normal circumstances. The video I watched before this video they were shooting the drone. And filming it. Those idiots stand a very high chance of the FAA seeing it. I hope they like the fines and the prison time..

[@markchadburn6102]

8 years ago rotor riot did a test with off the shelf racing quadcopters (so not 1:1 a grenade drone) and trying not to get shot and the outcome seemed to be hit the props, motors, main electronics or battery as a 9mm(I think) hit to the frame just knocked it about unless it caught said parts,

[@BarcelPL]

It seems high rate of fire shotguns would be effective at anti-drone. Straight up volume of fire, just like in early WWII. On the other hand, again similar to WWII, maybe prox-fuse shotgun shells? I don't know if the explosive mass would be large enough to neutralize a drone, but it's an idea. Also don't know how "legal" it would be, being an explosive projectile fire from small arm.

[@Knb-v1c]

I think larger Tungsten shot would be the key. #2 or 3 TSS would give the shot enough range but still offer a decently dense pattern.

[@kurthastings3118]

Finally someone talking about the appropriate shot for these drones. Tungsten would be my choice %100. You could up the pellet size to let’s say #6 or even #5 with a 2oz load. Yeah they are expensive and will kick hard, but they should reach out to 100 yards easy. They are also going to be cheaper then trying to figure out and manufacture some new anti drone tech.

[@Wiseman501]

Brother we just set up a shotgun for this exact purpose. Thank you for addressing this because it was truly a serious niche where nobody was really talking about it. There WILL be a threat of drone terror as these things become ubiquitous, and we are only seeing the start of it. Anything not shielded by an anti drone tech system and AA will be swarmed and unlivable for infantry on some battlefields. Like fighting explosive bees. For the squad level I choose a mag fed 12ga with a launcher. Not a good primary, but a great utility.

[@stealthhumor]

The other day a fellow came by my house to warn me that drones would be flying overhead to survey and inspect roofs in the area. His job was to see if the structures were secure enough to support the solar panels his company was selling. I thanked him for the information. I also warned him that if one of his drones crossed my property line, it would be shot down. He looked at me funny, but not in a ha-ha way. He left without turning his back. Oh yeah, for the timid: The Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) generally has jurisdiction over all airspace above the ground in the United States, starting from the surface. There is no specific altitude above which FAA jurisdiction begins-it extends from the ground up. However, there are certain regulations about how airspace is used at various heights. For example, property owners have some limited rights to the airspace directly above their land, mainly concerning their ability to reasonably use and enjoy their property. Legally, this has been interpreted to mean that landowners control only the airspace necessary to reasonably use and enjoy their land. This has generally been considered extending up to around 500 feet, but this is not a hard and fast rule. In my pilot days, I thought it was a law. Go figure. Anyway, I don't think it's a crime to make the threat unless the President is aboard.

[@scottmilano2940]

What’s the max range for those loads? Adding altitude to 100yds would be trivial for the drone.

[@TheRoamingHazard]

I've seen turkey hunt vids where they have dropped birds as far as 70 yards with TSS. I'd say it could be possible that TSS might be able to destabilize a small drone at that range but nobody has tested anything like this as everything about it is expensive and apparently illegal.

[@r3dok201]

In Russia it is pretty discussed topic. So we are making not only radio jam devices for that, we making special ammo for 12g shotgun with metal wires, net guns, etc.

[@Sableagle]

Let us know how far up you can get one of those nets, please!

[@r3dok201]

Also i can give a link to a yt channel where most famous russian guntuber tested various drone counter measures from AK and shotgun to a radio warfare

[@r3dok201]

@@Sableagle I realised that im cannot post links to a video, so search this "Крупнокалиберный Переполох Проводим опыты над камикадзе", there is a test on live drones with a net gun and other guns, but that tests was against Kamikaze drones rather than bombardment ones. In video he said up to ten meters by manufacturer, but in video, i think it throws up to 30m.

[@maxj1449]

To work around the legalities, could you mount the drone to a frame as a target, shoot at the drone target not in flight, then test if the drone was capable of taking flight again, and not using any footage taken by the drone?

[@electraglide2818]

If you are using turkey loads, you should use a turkey shotgun. Long barrel full choke.

[@tomtoss2463]

I love government bureaucracy. I feel so free. You have avoided a lengthy stay in federal prison.

[@Repenter0]

Something to point out for testing purposes. Just make some targets out of cheap plastic rotors used on drones, so you can put some rotors on an X made of hangars or whatever and see if the various shot loads have a serious difference in effect against those rotors. Should be relatively cheap as compared to shooting drones and even if this can be defeated by sufficiently armored drones/blades they are now nolonger cheap and sacrificial drones but more expensive weapon systems that need to be maintained and you can then fall back to more classic anti-aircraft weapons in a cost effective manner.

[@KarltheKrazyone]

in ww-uno, the brits looked at an anti air system called parachute and cable, which was a rocket launched system to put basically a steel cable into the air in hopes it would foul the incoming low level aircraft. It didn't quite work, but could you use a basically a lead split-shot with modern braided fishing line to create a "hairball" that would foul the rotors? Just spitballing, but it would seem to me that a system like that could be "safe" for those on the ground, and could be used as a drone only system in automated systems. All you need to do is foul one rotor and that drone is no longer flying. I'm going to bet someone has tried it, and there is a reason it doesn't work, but it's now in my head-cannon for any cyberpunk role playing games I run.

[@thefurryteacher1120]

Just a thought maybe try a cyote choke? I work for a choke tube company and that’s what I would use due to it being the tightest constriction I’m aware of

[@wallyzworld7108]

Over on James Reeves channel he recently did a review of the shotgun Ukraine is buying for drone defense, I commented number 7 tungsten would be the load. Also the TGS Outdoors channel over in England did a review of Aimpoint's new shotgun rib red dot with favorable results. What if you just put drone carcasses out out at 50, 60, 70 and 80 yards to see penetration of the components?

[@rogo7330]

How's wind will affect accuracy? 50 yards up is different story from 50 yards forward.

[@Strawberry92fs]

Chuck em into a skeet trap XD. Wait. Does that mean hobby shop RC Aeroplanes are legally aircraft?

[@shermrock345]

Theres a great video on youtube where they actually test shotguns and different loads and chokes against different dtones. It's a really good video. Cant remember t gr e name offit or the channel but its something drone defense will let you find the video. Shot guns really do work because you don't have to put a whole in thecdrobe you pretty much just have to hit it anywhere and it's going down unless it is one of the bigger drones that can lift 500 lbs and cost 20 to 30 grand to buy.. if you can shoot clays and skeet and trap and all that you can shootdown a drone. You will have an advantage at doing it it because its basically the same movements and stuff except for when they are just hovering or flying evasive maneuvers but I dont think enough people are taking out drones yet thatvtgeyvare change the wa they fly to avoid being hit yet. Anyway there are a few good videos of shotguns taking down drones that people hff ave made to prove the concept

[@johnkozma7459]

There needs to be a “flak” shell where the pellets separate after some distance to increase range

[@Treblaine]

That gunshot echo is next level.

[@breddygud6890]

American 180 bros, our time has finally come

[@OGColorado]

I bought a long-barrel Model 1897 Remington shotgun for this very purpose. Buckshot ready. I saw a Russian unit using antique looking "grandpa guns" as they called their double barrel shotguns for this purpose. However they also have electronic countermeasures and a radio transmitter that looks like a gun. They interrupt the signal between operator and drone.

[@imbaraban]

Drones in Ru-Ua conflict are using machine vision now. Now algorithm decides who lives, who dies. Welcome to the future.

[@vigunfighter]

I'd go 10 gauge, semi-automatic. Either the Remington or the Ithaca. (don't know if they are currently on the market, might have to source on the used market) Ammo, I'd look at steel BB shot. i think anything smaller than #2 shot wouldn't have the oomph (industry recognized technical term) to penetrate to the electronics at 50 yards. That combo would be a substantial step up from 12 gauge. and the Semi auto 10 gauges are pretty smooth with regard to the recoil.

[@jethrolincoln7309]

Thank you

[@Haris122]

How about seeing how far out you can still get somewhat of a pattern/notable movement from the steel plate, especially a roughly drone sized one (and if possible, one that’s relatively close in weight to a drone)? Not too familiar with further ranging 12 gauge loads but the load that hits hard furthest on the plate seems like it would be best for drones too. Personally I wondered how you never see multiple people in tandem shooting at drones for volley of fire taking it out as it’s getting to the point of hovering. Or giving one or two dudes a scoped style traditional bigger caliber rifle like a Nagant and having him or them be the designated drone defense guys.

[@Mpeterson1286]

That #5 shot hit with authority. The pellets might be heavy enough to get good penetration on tin/plastic/circuits/batteries at distance, too

[@csipawpaw7921]

I would have thought Duck loads would be better.

[@TheMoritz84]

You could use a goose rifle with al long barrel. The use it up to 60 yards. At least nowadays the propellers of the drones are quite fragile. So maybe birdshot could already damage the drone. (Maybe not explode the attached grenade. Could be a problem when dropping down.)

[@buzdygan5488]

drones are really delicate in terms of rotor blades and plastic bodies, and density is the most important thing, maybe we'll see some new, long range shot cups developed, which would separate from the shells later

[@Battleis-Assimous]

A Drone is approximately 10-14 inches across. Of course some bigger some smaller. As far as I know a helium balloon on a string requires no license. it will move around with the wind and they are cheep! drones aren't hardened targets so a hit is good. just a thought what do you think?

[@richardwebb547]

Bird disruptors shells are basically shotgun fired firecrackers. If you are serious about drone point defense this may be a way to proceed. A full auto, long barrel, magazine feed shotgun with self detonating (50 yards) rounds. These rds could spread pellets in a circular pattern or a forward facing cone. The magazine can be loaded with both self det. and turkey loads.

[@TechNinja_420]

might try this combo: flite control with bird shot + 5 lead bolo balls attached via string/chain + rifled choke

[@An34syT4rg3t]

I wonder how far disassembled you have to go before it no longer counts as an aircraft. Could you place the internal electronics behind a piece of plastic like the shell and shoot that?

[@PenDragonsPig]

Herters make/made a long range, non magnum turkey load where the shot cup is reversed and the shot are released as the cup turns around mid flight. Also magnum steel shot- more pellets per round.

[@TheColosiss]

8:04 Drone laws in this country are beyond moronic. One would think that the government would be actively encouraging drone tests considering the circumstances. Sadly, there are too many with too much control in positions of power willing to take away Freedoms for Safety. Benjamin Franklin- "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety"

[@tomhenry897]

Look whose using drones Government

[@matthayward7889]

Years ago I watched a competition shooting RC aircraft with shotguns. The expensive bits were armoured and reusable IIRC

[@Gaspard129]

Would it be worthwhile to create a target that can test effect on target? Maybe a witness plate of plastic/aluminum to simulate a drone chasis and something behind it like wires, old battery, old brushless motor. Then shoot at it from 50 yards to see if these round are even capable of a lethal hit.

[@Bran_Nuthin]

I wonder if belt fed shotguns will become a thing to deal with drones attacking static positions or vehicles in the future?

[@ayegame2424]

Please do a video with a red dot and trap/skeet shooting. I know it will upset some people. Have tried it and it both did work and did upset the people at my club who did say it wouldn't work.... then proceeded to still shoot better then them

[@badweetabix]

For a "free" country, America sure has a lot of restrictions.

[@ausgixxerpilot]

The problem I see with shotshells is their very limited range. Even recon drones don't need to get within shotgun range to do its job effectively, and anything armed with an explosive device has to be so close that even if you do disable it it's very likely the device will be released anyway. Also, I'm not sure the effect on the target at 50yd horizontally equates to 50yd vertically, wouldn't you lose more velocity firing vertically? I'm also curious about the effect of wind on a charge of light shot when fired vertically at 50yd.

[@densamme1752]

The return of hawkers to the battlefield but now they don't hunt messenger pigeons. Seriously tho, flechets could finally have a target that they are effective against

[@wibbitywoobity5249]

I would imagine the best work around for laws preventing it would be to use similarly thick plastic sheets and replacement blades you could mount to a basic motor to make them spin if it is truly worth investigating. I agree that the turkey loads would probably be enough for the use case considering the energy they unloaded on the plate. Although I now wonder what other hunting loads would do now.

[@stew88hi]

Just a FYI the NSSA which is the governing body for skeet currently has no rule against red dot sights. I have been shooting skeet for many years and teaching the sport. I see the benefits of the red dot for an entry level shooter. However my experience and other at the higher end of competitive shooters in the sport have not seen any benefit in a red dot. And I would say in some situations it’s actually hurts more than helps.

[@geoswan4984]

Maybe gun enthusiasts know this. For those viewers who aren't gun enthusiasts, how many actual pellets were in those three rounds? Birdshot - doesn't it pellets somewhere between this size poppy seeds and sesame seeds? Did the first round contain hundreds of pellets? Did I hear the narrator properly? Did the two premium rounds contain 5 and 7 pellets?